Thursday Digest: Injury heartache? | It’s banner time again | Contract elation

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Controversey surrounding yet another banner from Redaction. This time, because they’re commissioning one that includes the dogs of Alexis Sanchez, Anatomical and Humberside. Fans are furious, they think this is not good banter and fans of other clubs, like West Ham, will beat us up for being pathetic.

I personally don’t give a rats backside. Talking of rats, last night, walking past a bin bag, a giant rat ran out and bumped into my shoe at full speed. Lovely. New York is so rat infested, that if you walk home at night without on music on, you can hear them fighting and rustling. SAD!

Back to the banner, I really don’t care. It’s a bit of fun. I mean, our banners are pretty boring, it really doesn’t affect anyone and I’m sure Sanchez will enjoy it.

My issue is with Redaction: Guys, get over the fucking banners. Clearly someone in the organisation has a print company and they’re raking it in. Let’s improve the atmosphere in other ways.

How about some more flags? Or some rattles? Or a hologram of players by the corners leading songs. Wouldn’t that be bad ass? How about using banner funds to invest in an Arsenal album, like they have when you go to Dortmund? I worked with Saracens and the CEO ran a song before every game that fans moaned about, but he insisted, if you build routine into anything, people will enjoy it and partake in the end. OR, how about we hire a conductor for each section that does what the hologram does. WOULD BE AMAZING.

Safestanding is not the only answer to a better atmosphere. Let’s get creative and suggest smaller more actionable items at the same time.

NO MORE BANNER TALK

How about some good contract news? Kos, Coq and Giroooooooooud signed new deals with the club. Very positive. Think what you want about Giroud, he’s more effective pound for pound than Messi at the moment, contributing positively with assists or goals more regularly than the Argentine god. Laurent is a great defender who we need to keep going, lad needs a trophy before I’ll put him anywhere near the greats and Coquelin is a superb squad player and prime for that double pivot away from home against Bayern.

Now we just need to know what’s going to happen with Sanchez. I’m absolutely not fussed about Ozil. Replaceable if we modernise our system. It’s Sanchez, can we tie him down? That’d be a major coup for Arsene and Arsenal. Hopefully someone can point him in the direction of the dog banner.

Rumours online Santi had to have another operation are sad if true. We’ll have to be looking at a Pjanic or Paredes in the summer if that’s the case. Can’t be relying on someone who is going to struggle to come back at the right pace level in his thirties.

Also stories we bid £35m in the summer for Manolas. We fu*ked up not signing him when we had the carrot of Joel Campbell to sweeten the deal.

Outside that, I’ll whip up a preview for you tomorrow evening.

HAVE A NICE DAY AND THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS MEANS A LOT BIG LOVE X

128 Responses to “Thursday Digest: Injury heartache? | It’s banner time again | Contract elation”

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  1. DogsBollocks

    Apparently there are proposals for away fans to be located closer to the pitch to improve the atmosphere. Perhaps arsenals away support could also be grouped for home matches at the emirates.
    The introduction of safe standing would also improve things in these ares of the stadium. Wenger is an advocate of this.

  2. El Tel

    My suggestion is to bring back the Police Band with the Guy lobbing the Mace up in the air then catching/dropping it. Dead boring really but it will bring back fond memories of the good old days for the older folk.

  3. Emiratesstroller

    Pedro

    I am glad that I am not alone in believing that Koscielny, Giroud and Coquelin on
    contract extensions is good news.

    Also I think that renewing contracts of Mertesacker and Cazorla would be counterproductive. This sounds very much like a repeat of what happened last year with Rosicky, Arteta and Flamini. The decision cost us in excess £12 million with very little return on investment. Cazorla was a wonderful footballer,
    but he has spent a large slice of last two years injured. We need leadership and experience on the field not off it.

    Sanchez is the key to our future and the club needs to sort this whatever the
    cost. Paying him another £120 K pw is a lot cheaper than selling him and replacing him with a less talented player. Sanchez provides good value for money than most other players at club.

  4. Christian

    hello guys,i’ve been thinking what if Wenger tries a formation with welbeck,sanchez and Perez in front then ozil and iwobi behind them and coquelin as the DM… wouldn’t that be a great attack

  5. EN1AFC

    Good post, the atmosphere really does need to be addressed cause it is bad at the moment. I don’t go as much these days but still have plenty of mates with Season tickets and it’s one of their biggest issues along with Wenger!
    That Sanchez banner imo is cringeworthy and embarrassing. Like you say Pedro why not spend the money on actually trying to improve the atmosphere rather than shit banners which do fuck all!

    My suggestion would be this: The People who want to create more of an atmosphere and not sit on their arses and on their phones doing fucking Vlogs or snapchatting or whatever bollocks should ask the club to move behind the goal of the clock end (If and BIG if the club allow this!). Get as many in there as possible. This alone I think would help massively. 2/3000 like minded souls singing non stop like the away boys.

    During the highbury days the clock end was always the one making the most noise normally just because of the fact it was next to the away fans. North London Derbies in there was as lively as it got (Miss the old place badly!) The North Bank was louder at times being a lot bigger, forget about east and west just like the Bowl. I actually remember when Red-Action formed and did a few trials in the North Bank during Carling cup games, worked pretty well. They don’t seem to do anything but organise banners and a few displays at Champions league games now. Really need to put more effort into this. Safe standing would be great but is a long long way off in top flight English football.

  6. Waldo

    When you mix testosterone, alcohol, and male machismo in a group atmosphere which acts like an amplifier, I think the term “safe standing” becomes an oxymoron. Kind of like the term “clean coal” or “political insight”.

    Just my view from remembering my twenties… (I think)

  7. gonsterous

    Great post Pedro. I’m starting to love you and the blog more than my own gf and dog. Need to get my priorities straight 🙁

  8. Steveyg87

    Like the formation that Christian mentioned earlier lots of pace and Welbz and sanchez showed good interplay before he got crocked

  9. Christian

    Do one Gambon
    iwobi is actually a good cm if you can remember the day he played there before Wenger replaced him with Ramsey.he knows how to hold and get the ball from defence to attack and I believe his distribution is good.he can play alongside coquelin while ozil gets his more advanced role

  10. China

    Pedro why would us winning trophies mean kos would then qualify for greater status? Trophies are won by clubs not players (excluding golden boot etc).

    The quality of a player can be defined exclusively by what he has done, over what period of time and with what consistency. He’s been a quality defender for a really long time. Whether or not his club win any major trophies makes no difference to that fact.

    He could be the best cb of all time but in a poorly structured setup and with flappy keepers and weak strikers would still fail to win. Or he could be overrated shite like Fabian barthez was but who still managed to win top trophies (and then somehow qualifies for great status??)

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Wes brown is one of the most decorated players in pl history. John O’Shea and Darren fletcher won the cl. Anderson too. Using club trophies as a way to decide how good a player is makes absolutely zero sense

  11. Black Hei

    Christian

    Interesting idea. But I would start Xhaka alongside Iwobi and sign a creative wide player to replace Iwobi himself on the left.

    Perez or Walcott to occupy one flank. Welbeck should be a backup for Sanchez.

  12. Black Hei

    Christian

    The more I think about it, the more I think it will work.

    Iwobi will be following Carzola and Lallana’s footsteps to move from winger to CM.

    Though Ramsey will probably be having nightmares.

  13. Wallace

    “Manchester United were on the receiving end of heavy criticism when they shut up shop and successfully played for a 0-0 draw when they visited Liverpool in October. It was a classic exercise in parking the bus from an unapologetic José Mourinho, who reasoned that a cautious approach was necessary against a team who regularly overwhelm their opponents with blistering attacking play. But while it was possible to grudgingly respect Mourinho’s plan, there is no need for the United manager to play it safe at Old Trafford on Sunday. Although United are unlikely to veer too far away from pragmatism – this is a Mourinho side, after all – it is reasonable to expect them to play with enhanced adventure, given that they are riding high after nine successive wins in all competitions, with Zlatan Ibrahimovic scoring consistently, Paul Pogba beginning to excel in midfield, Marcus Rashford spreading panic in opposition defences, Henrikh Mkhitaryan creating and Juan Mata continuing to chip in with important goals. Victory would lift them two points behind Jürgen Klopp’s side, so this is no time for timidity.” – Guardian

    will be a fascinating game. very tough to call, although obviously hope Klopp batters the c*nt.

  14. Louis Almeida

    Wenger says Bellerin still out for Swansea game, but “not far” from return. Ozil returns from illness.

    Wenger on Ozil: “He would like to know what happens on the managerial front, but I don’t think that’s the main part of his decision.”

    Wenger confirms Jenkinson could move to Crystal Palace in the next few days.

    Wenger on Arsenal’s supposed bid for Torino striker Belotti: “That’s what you call today fake news.”

    Wenger on Payet: “The vibes you get from outside are not very positive I must say. … The boy is not known for having that mentality.”

    Wenger adds Walcott still out and will miss Burnley game as well.

    Wenger on Debuchy move: “The door is not definitely closed. But it depends on the qualities of the opportunities he’ll have.”

  15. Louis Almeida

    Jenkinson deal is permanent. Believed to be £3m. Debuchy may also leave. Shows a lot of faith in AMN. Gabriel/Mustafi could also fill there if necessary as we have many CBs

  16. Black Hei

    Louis

    Jenks is not terrible. He just need to go to a side that plays Sam-style hoof ball.

    Over at Arsenal, his lack of technique gets exposed with our short technical game.

  17. Wallace

    Louis

    Wenger on Payet: “The vibes you get from outside are not very positive I must say. … The boy is not known for having that mentality.”

    is he saying Payet’s known for being difficult, or that he’s surprised by his refusal to play?

  18. Wallace

    no probs with both Jenks & Debuchy leaving. think AM-N is an excellent prospect, and Gabriel also looks comfortable there.

  19. Louis Almeida

    Black Hei, with all due respect, Jenkinson is terrible. He has no ability to keep the ball. He’s athletic but that’s about it. There is much more mileage in going with Ainsley Maitland-Niles.

    Wallace, I’ve always heard that Payet has had a questionable mentality which is why he’s never played for a top club as he performs when he’s the main man at a lesser club. Certainly if he’s refusing to train that speaks of huge unprofessionalism.

  20. Wallace

    how long has Walcott been out now? thought it was only supposed to be a minor niggle. wonder if his absence has influenced Wenger’s decision to give Giroud more time at #9…

  21. Louis Almeida

    Wenger has never been one to be honest about return times. Look how Cazorla wasn’t supposed to be out long yet no return date for him. Meanwhile Wilshere hasn’t been injured once since being at Bournemouth. It says a lot.

  22. qna

    Jenkinsion is shit. AMN is shit. No prospect of developing into a decent player.

    We have already wasted our money on Chambers who will never be a quality CB. May as well develop him as backup RB like Gibbs.

  23. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Wallace

    I disagree about amn

    What I’ve seen don’t fill with joy …

    The transfer saga at our club is like a sad soap opera …..

    Wenger additional three signings yesterday shows the club are treading water …

    The new man may not want them three for the next few years ….

  24. gambon

    Hasnt Walcott been out ever since he said live on BT Sport that Wenger didnt say anything at halftime against Man City?

    As for AMN – dont see any serious talent there.

    Will probably be a Championship player.

  25. Peter Green

    R.S.P.C.Arsenal:

    “The new man may not want them three for the next few years ….”

    The whole point of those three extensions is that Wenger will be here for a minimum two years more

  26. Wallace

    gambon

    “As for AMN – dont see any serious talent there. Will probably be a Championship player.”

    you must be quite surprised by how well Gnabry’s doing?

  27. gambon

    “you must be quite surprised by how well Gnabry’s doing?”

    1- Not really.

    I used to say all the time that Gnabry, Akpom and Bellerin were the only players in that youth team that had the chance of being a true top level player.

    2- You must be surprised by how badly Jenkinson, Hoyte, Gibbs, Volz, Gilbert, Eastmond, Traore, Senderos, Djourou, Svard, Hayden, Aneke, Emmanuel-Thomas, Eisfeld, Ebecilio, Henderson, Nordveit, Frimpong, Bartley, Lansbury, Merida, Freeman, Sunu, Watt, Bendtner, Barazite, Simpson, Lupoli, Aliadiere have done???

  28. Wallace

    gambon

    “1- Not really.

    I used to say all the time that Gnabry, Akpom and Bellerin were the only players in that youth team that had the chance of being a true top level player.”

    love your chutzpah. 🙂 Trump-like.

  29. qna

    @gambon. Great post. I agree and have always said the same – minus Akpom. In the current youth players I like Malen, Adelaide and Iwobi. Perhaps the Nigerian (forgot his name) but its too early. I am willing to write off all others including Jon Toral, Rob Holding and Chambers.

    Benefit of any doubt has to go to the assumption of failure as anything else will be the exception to a very consistent rule.

  30. gambon

    From 3.5 years ago….Sep 2013

    “Like ive been saying all along, apart from Akpom and Bellerin, with maybe Gnabry our kids are shit.

    Of the above 3, maybe 1 will make it.

    Miyaichi is absolutely appalling. The sooner he gets bombed out the better.”

  31. Bamford10

    That quip about “fake news” might be the first genuinely funny thing Wenger has said in some ten years, though I’ve only read about it at moment; if I actually watched the video of it, I’d probably not find it funny at all, as his face and tone of voice would ruin it. God, the man is clueless.

    And what’s with him using a word like “vibes”? Is he hanging out now in his free time with a crew of pot-heads in Camden Town, trying to figure out how “the young people” think? The “vibes you get,” Arsene? Dear Lord.

  32. gambon

    Sep 2013

    “Akpom is the best young player at Arsenal, but Bellerin maybe has a better chance of making it.

    Fact is scoring regular goals at the top level is the hardest thing in football, so the failure rate is enormous.

    Easier to make it as a FB compared to CF.”

  33. Bamford10

    Miyachi was straight garbage. He had one move — maybe —- and a bit of pace. That was Wenger dabbling in South East Asian football. He hasn’t done well there, save with the older geishas, I imagine.

    Miyachi’s awfulness didn’t stop some Sam or Simon telling us here every day that Miyachi would soon be a player to help Arsenal win the title. Good Dear Lord.

  34. gambon

    Bamford

    Wengers fling with Project Youth made half of our fans think that EVERY 17-19 year old at Arsenal was gonna be a world class first teamer in the future.

  35. gambon

    Glad Wenger has finally come to his senses and realised that making Carl Jenkinsons dream come true is not part of his job description.

  36. Cesc Appeal

    I certainly use to buy into idea that Arsenal were one day going to rule the world because our youngsters were all so terrific, back in the 2008/2009 sort of days, then I grew up and saw through Wenger, far, far more likely a youngster will fail than succeed at Arsenal now.

  37. Wallace

    gambon(Jan 2016)

    “I would sell both Szczesny and Ospina in the summer……

    Also sell Debuchy, Jenkinson, Hayden, Welbeck, Sanogo, Campbell, Gnabry and let Flamini, Rosicky and Arteta leave at the end of their contracts.”

    gambon(Jan, 2016)

    “Dale

    Gnabry…..ok, really hasnt done anything special, although very good at youth level.

    Always looks fat which is a worry.”

  38. Bamford10

    gambon

    “Fling” is exactly right; we’re not hearing a lot about that approach these days, are we?

    Which isn’t to say that that’s not part of an intelligent approach; it is. But you have to do it properly, a la, say Dortmund. You can’t just over-hype average or inadequate kids.

  39. steve

    “Miyachi’s awfulness didn’t stop some Sam or Simon telling us here every day that Miyachi would soon be a player to help Arsenal win the title. Good Dear Lord.”

    ___

    I Remember Sam said Miyachi was going to be our Ronaldo lolololol.

  40. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal have not played particularly well this season, but in the main they have been resilient and in contrast to recent seasons we have got goal scoring potential averaging 2 goals+ in EPL and 3 goals in CL.

    We have lost 3 games sofar this season. The first against Liverpool was due primarily to unavailability or lack of match fitness.

    The other two defeats came last month and I attribute these primarily to loss
    of Mustafi at CB through injury and defensive frailty in left full back position.

    The fact is that we have not lost a single game this season when Mustafi has played alongside Koscielny.

    However, there has to be concern about our away form in last 3 games in EPL
    where we have conceded 7 goals. That was down to poor defending both in
    defence and midfield.

    Bluntly it has cost us 8 points against 3 teams we should have beaten and it
    raises questions about certain members of our squad.

    In defence we are short of an understudy for Bellerin and I believe also that
    we need a better third string Centre Back than Gabriel. However my main concern is the frailty of both Gibbs and Monreal. They are okay going forward,
    but have played poorly in defence.

    Midfield is also a weakness at the moment with Ozil playing poorly before Christmas and then an unexplained illness in New Year. Was this an illness
    of convenience?

    I believe that Xhaka will develop into a good player, but needs clearly to adapt
    to pace of EPL. Coquelin and Ramsey are average squad players at best and I
    am not personally a fan of Elneny. He may have passing efficiency according
    to stats, but that is about all you can say about his game.

    It is unlikely that Arsenal will spend money in this transfer window. I think
    that we have spent our budget this season.

    However, we do need to start offloading some players next summer and some
    tough decisions need to be taken about the future of players like Wilshire,
    Ramsey, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chambers and Gibbs.

    Mertesacker and Cazorla should be offloaded rather than have their contracts renewed. Experience costing us almost £200K pw in wages sitting on sideline
    because they are injured has no value to club.

  41. gambon

    Wallace

    I really dont get your point.

    I dont want Gnabry in the team, so why are you trying to insinuate my views on Gnabry were wrong?

    Good player, high celing, we were right to sell him. Only mistake was selling him for so little.

  42. gambon

    Sam actually has some kind of mental illness.

    He is obsessed with youth players. Has no interest in any player thats over 21 years old.

    Remember him saying how amazing Afobe is and how it was such a mistake to let him go, and hes better than Giroud.

    Afobe has since scored 5 goals in 27 games, and is regularly on the Bournemouth bench.

  43. Jim Lahey

    “2- You must be surprised by how badly Jenkinson, Hoyte, Gibbs, Volz, Gilbert, Eastmond, Traore, Senderos, Djourou, Svard, Hayden, Aneke, Emmanuel-Thomas, Eisfeld, Ebecilio, Henderson, Nordveit, Frimpong, Bartley, Lansbury, Merida, Freeman, Sunu, Watt, Bendtner, Barazite, Simpson, Lupoli, Aliadiere have done???”

    Ouch… that is not a good list!

  44. Wallace

    gambon

    “I dont want Gnabry in the team, so why are you trying to insinuate my views on Gnabry were wrong?”

    you described AM-N as a ‘championship player’ after 3 games for the first team. I’d recalled you saying something similar about Gnabry.

  45. Red&White4life

    Payet rumors again ?? He’s actually going to war with west ham’s board because he wants to joins Marseille, end of the story.

  46. Dream10

    Speaking of young players, it would not be a bad option to sell Chamberlain this summer. Mutually beneficial for the club and player. He has the physical tools of a top 4 player, but his decision making fluctuates from top class to poor within a 15 minute segment of the same game. Decision making is the number one quality in attacking player. Maybe another manager can improve him. Chamberlain may achieve consistency at 26 or 27. A move back to Southampton would be excellent for him. But he and his agent want top wages.

  47. Bamford10

    The XI I’d like to see at moment (given what we got):

    _________Ospina
    Hold__Must__Kosc__Monr
    _____Xhaka___Ramsey
    __________Iwobi
    Alexis_____Lucas_____Ozil

    Bring big handsome on in the 70th, with Welbeck replacing Lucas maybe.

    Tell Ramsey to stay home, hold, play simple, and give beaucoup work rate and ball winning. Let the front four do the creating & attacking.

  48. gambon

    Dont think i’d take Payet, due to his age and the scummy way he’s forcing his way out.

    That said, at the moment he’s an elite player.

  49. Dream10

    gambon

    Yep. Payet at a level Walcott, Chamberlain and Iwobi may not reach. Looks like he’s agreed personal terms with Marseille. Two clubs will be sorting the transfer fee out over the next couple of weeks

  50. Bamford10

    Dream10

    Agreed. He could be a player, but he’s not going to become that player at Arsenal. It would be nice, though, if we could get him to show his promise with a dribble and goal or two toward the end of the season, so that we can sell him for a decent price.

  51. Wallace

    gambon

    “Thanks for your interest in my affairs.”

    always a pleasure. I won’t bring up your old stuff on Koscielny & Giroud.

  52. steve

    “2- You must be surprised by how badly Jenkinson, Hoyte, Gibbs, Volz, Gilbert, Eastmond, Traore, Senderos, Djourou, Svard, Hayden, Aneke, Emmanuel-Thomas, Eisfeld, Ebecilio, Henderson, Nordveit, Frimpong, Bartley, Lansbury, Merida, Freeman, Sunu, Watt, Bendtner, Barazite, Simpson, Lupoli, Aliadiere have done???”

    ____

    Weren’t all those players supposed to be the next big thing? Lol Arsenal have a terrible record with academy players.

  53. gambon

    “always a pleasure. I won’t bring up your old stuff on Koscielny & Giroud.”

    Good point….al them PL titles theyve won us.

  54. Cesc Appeal

    Transfers out though depend on whether Wenger is staying or not, if we get a new manager I would not mind seeing Ramsey and Oxlade stay on, especially if we get a very tactically astute manager, modern coaches, positional instruction etc

    If Wenger stays then yeah, I would say time to sell and get in better players who already own their position and don’t need instruction.

  55. Wallace

    Bamford

    think Gabriel should be the first choice back up at RB. bit more elastic & agile than Holding. agree with your front 4, but would still have our two best playes central, with Lucas & Iwobi wide.

  56. Cesc Appeal

    To be fair Kozz was a total surprise, he looked terrible in his early years, not with his physicality and his effort, but his decision making (still occasionally spotty) and reading of the game (much improved).

    But I would say Kozz is one of very few examples in recent years you can point to as a player looking poor and suddenly becoming a really valuable asset to the side.

    The point Gambon makes is absolutely fair, far more likely a youngster or a below par player does not make it or continues to be below par as opposed to making it. The point is not that you should not even bother with trying with these types, the point with Arsenal is the level of persistence Wenger will have to the detriment of the club as a whole and then the constant defending of transfer inertia based off of the presence of these players.

  57. Vivek Arulnathan

    The success rate of youth players making it into their first teams is extremely low all over the world. It’s not just an Arsenal problem. The likes of Afobe, Gnabry or even guys from earlier like Upson and Seb Larrson are good enough for bottom half teams in the EPL. That’s not a shame. So many of our former youth players make a career in the lower leagues and its just the nature of youth football that not everyone showing glimpses of stardom make it big.

    And all the big youth players who have emerged recently needed luck to get the game time. Rashford would probably be on loan if it wasn’t for their injury crisis upfront last season. Bellerin needed two bad injuries to Debuchy to establish himself. Coquelin’s case is even more weird. And people naming Gibbs as a failure need a reality check. Every team in this league would love to have such an experienced and reliable second choice player. Maybe he isn’t elite but even top teams need decent back up. Remember Barca teams had guys like Adriano as back up?

    Finally, having a long list of youngsters is a relatively cheap operation for the club. The entire youth team wouldn’t be earning the total of one star player’s annual salary, so its no big deal. If even one makes it, its money saved on transfer fees. Iwobi, Gibbs, Bellerin, Coquelin and Wilshere are 50-60 million we didnt have to spend. And the players who don’t make would have received good training and development during their spell.

    And finally, huge respect for Jenko. He is an Arsenal fan, like all of us. And he gave his best for the club he supports. All the best to him!

  58. Dream10

    Bamford

    Agreed. The ideal for him at the moment is to come on at the 60-70th minute with Giroud (when he’s not performing like Marco van Basten at the moment ) and apply pressure to tired/retreating opposition.

  59. Leedsgunner

    “Meanwhile Wilshere hasn’t been injured once since being at Bournemouth. It says a lot.”

    Great point Louis…

    Not that anyone at Arsenal is listening especially Arsene. He thinks he knows it all. No doubt when Wilshere gets back on the injury train Arsene will blame bad luck.

    More and more I think about it, I think Arsene’s training methods are responsibile for making our players more injury prone. We’ve literally wasted millions on Wenger’s antiquated training methods… and waiting for them to finally come good.

    Tragic to think about how good Rosicky could have been under a different manager.

  60. Cesc Appeal

    Red & White

    Because I’m still holding out, the alternative just is too horrible to think about right now, there is light at the end of the tunnel but it might just be the one light in the tunnel that actually works, beyond it is just more darkness and an accented voice whispering ‘cohesion, consistency and financial sustainability.’

  61. Vivek Arulnathan

    And since 2012 or thereabout, Wenger hasn’t really pushed youngsters unless they are really good. Most of the failures people listed were mainly during the 2005-2012 period and that was a testing time for the club on different levels. Right now, he gives them chances only if they perform and never to the detriment of the team (Sheffield Wednesday an exception).

  62. gambon

    Leeds

    I dont think its possible that there ISNT a problem at Arsenal (re injuries)

    Way too large a sample size for it to be accidental.

    Wenger will of course never accept this, never change things, and never take any blame for it.

  63. Leedsgunner

    Apparently West Ham want £30-£40m for Payet. At that price — it’s a no.

    It’s like the Arteta experience all over again. He’ll give us 18 months of decent football and then be a drain on the wage bill… as he’ll start to pick up injuries — especially under Arsene.

    Oh wait, it’s not his fault… it’s bad luck!

  64. Louis Almeida

    West Ham has been the highlight of Payet’s club career. He doesn’t interest me despite his talent. There are a lot of deeper underlying issues.

  65. Vivek Arulnathan

    Leeds

    All of his injuries are impact injuries and training methods have no influence on them. His first was due to work load and that was down to the manager. Since then he’s had two tackles from McNair and Gabriel end his seasons. Teams do employ a more aggressive style against us compared to the Cherries. It’s not as simple as him staying injury free just because he’s at Bournemouth.

  66. Wallace

    Cesc Appeal

    “But I would say Kozz is one of very few examples in recent years you can point to as a player looking poor and suddenly becoming a really valuable asset to the side.”

    he’s prone to the odd rash moment, like pretty much any front foot CB, but I think it was only on le grove where people questioned his quality.

  67. Dissenter

    Biopic didn’t handle the situation right.
    He’s outed the player and destroyed any chance of a mediation..

    Honestly the lad was too good for West Ham…and we all know it.

  68. Cesc Appeal

    Wallace

    No, I disagree with that.

    Kozz was pretty roundly described as a ‘stupid player,’ rash, seemed to get caught out by play a lot and for many that moment with Schez summed him up as a player.

    Sort of missing the point of the post though, was not about Kozz per se, more about it being a rare thing for a player to look poor or not Arsenal standard, and then step it up.

  69. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal have produced some talented players in recent years through their Academy Programme e.g. Cole, Bellerin, Fabregas and Wilshire.

    However, on the whole most players coming through that system have been fairly average and flattered to deceive.

    Overall I don’t think that many major EPL Clubs have a great track record at
    Academy level. Manchester United seem to be in decline at that level and
    despite huge investments in their Academies both Manchester City and Chelsea have yet to be convinced to promote young players into their first
    team.

  70. Louis Almeida

    Payet is 30. If he was that elite he would’ve played for a top club by now. Like Ben Arfa, you have to stop making excuses for these players at some point.

  71. Jim Lahey

    Yeah everyone questioned Kos’ ability the first few years he was here and with good cause. He was very shaky, and to this day must hold the record for most own goals at Arsenal.

  72. Vivek Arulnathan

    Gambon

    You seriously think we haven’t improved our injury record? The only injuries you can prevent are muscle injuries and there is clear proof that we are improving in that regard. And we also look better in bringing back players. Long term injuries are coming back quicker and there is also more caution in bringing back players who are coming back from muscle injuries.

    Agree that we certainly had a problem for a long time. We still get lots of non muscle injuries but there has never been any concrete proof that training methods influence non muscle injuries. Wenger of course won’t accept blame for our troubles but the improvements shown are proof that the club realise that this is an issue and are taking steps to improve the situation.

  73. gambon

    Vivek

    Yes, correct, I think we havent improved our injury situation at all.

    Because i have been following AFC long enough to know Arsene doesnt ever change anything.

  74. Wallace

    Jim

    “Yeah everyone questioned Kos’ ability the first few years he was here and with good cause.”

    if you lob an ‘on le grove’ after, ‘ability’, you’d be more accurate. think most good judges elsewhere rated him very highly from quite early in his Arsenal career.

  75. Red&White4life

    “there is light at the end of the tunnel ”
    @Cesc : I am a big Dream Theater fan, so I will just quote one of their song :
    “How can you keep your head and not go insane, when the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train ?” (no lol)

  76. Leedsgunner

    Apparently Wenger is mining the lower leagues because he wants to find the next Deli Alli.

    Please. That ship has sailed.

    So we are stacking our youth teams will lower league dross in the hope that they become the next [INSERT SUPERSTAR PLAYER]?

    Frankly our scouting structure is totally neutered by the simple fact that Wenger overrides them all when he wants if he thinks they are good enough. Want proof? Sanogo? Denilson?

    Didn’t we go through this exercise before in 2010-11 when we let go huge numbers of youngsters because they weren’t good enough? Players that Wenger uptil then claimed he had full faith in?

    The truth is, no matter what Arsene thinks, his recent record in uncovering talented youngsters and bringing them on is dreadful.

    Bellerin and Iwobi are good but their progress has to be set in context against the hundreds of players he got it wrong on.

    Due to his success in bringing on PV4, RvP, Henry and Cesc Wenger likes to portray himself as a master of spotting and nurturing youth talent but the evidence (in the past 5 years especially) says otherwise.

    In fact I would say Klopp has a better record of bringing on youth, especially if you take into account his days at BvB.

    …. and no, throwing in a youngster into the deep end because you have squad that’s decimated by injuries is NOT good man management — it’s the exact opposite.

    That’s not nurturing youth, that’s throwing them to lions and hoping that the youngster saves your arse… because you were too afraid to go into the transfer market to get a proper experienced specialist.

    It’s not genius it’s cowardice.

  77. Ozy

    “then I grew up and saw through Wenger, far, far more likely a youngster will fail than succeed at Arsenal now.”

    To be fair, isn’t that the case for every single top club? We have a poor track record but ours is much better than many other top clubs. Of course, we haven’t won anything of note so that point is somewhat moot but still, the grass isn’t always greener..

  78. Cesc Appeal

    Ozy

    That is not the point though, there is no issue at all with the club taking punts on youth or with our record, the issue is with Wenger past persistence in playing inferior talent and with the classic ‘would kill the career’ based transfer inertia.

    I think that is what people are saying, in the context of Bramall, no problem with the punt at all, could reap rewards, but what Arsenal fans don’t want to hear is that we don’t need to sign a LB because of Bramall and the death dealing effect it would have on his career for the next two or three years.

  79. Jim Lahey

    @Wallace –

    “if you lob an ‘on le grove’ after, ‘ability’, you’d be more accurate. think most good judges elsewhere rated him very highly from quite early in his Arsenal career”

    Thats not true, reversionary nonsense. He is one of the best in the league now, but for his first few seasons he was very average and tended to make costly mistakes.

  80. Jim Lahey

    @CA & Ozy

    Exactly, nothing wrong with bringing in young talent (However, I do believe that Bramall at 20 is too old to be taking from the non-leagues). Its that we all know it is very possible that he will be held up as an example as to why we will not go out and spend money, its happened many times before and will happen again, I think that is where that groans are predominantly coming from.

  81. Ozy

    CA,

    But I was responding to you explicitly saying that Wenger’s track record with youngsters is more often a failure than not so your issue did appear to be with our record.

    In regards to Wenger preferring youth players over talent, I don’t know. That hasn’t been our policy for a few years now. We brought in Monreal at the expense of Gibbs. We sold Gnabry, persisting with Walcott and Oxlade (Oxlade can no longer be considered a youth player). We brought in Xhaka, despite having Bielik. We bought Mustafi, loaning out Chambers and benching Holding. I don’t think anybody at the club has hinted at Bramall being anywhere near ready for the first team, either.

  82. Cesc Appeal

    Ozy

    No, not really, because my whole point was read in conjunction with my other comments, that Wenger’s tact over the past decade of adopting a policy of resisting transfers based on the youth products or inferior products in our squad, and persisting with them past then point of widely held recognition of the lack of ability was the issue, meaning his record then becomes an issue, not that it is worse or better than most but is more telling owing to the former.

    So you are sort of arguing against a point on the basis of an entirely different point, youth records versus youth records, which was not my point in the slightest.

    In recent years, yeah, sort of, but we still have instances where youngsters are elevated into a position they should not be in usually through negligence, like Chambers the season before last, Iwobi to an extent this year.

  83. Wallace

    Jim

    “Thats not true, reversionary nonsense. He is one of the best in the league now, but for his first few seasons he was very average and tended to make costly mistakes.”

    Martin Keown(Feb, 2011), after the first leg of the Arsenal vs Barcelona champions league clash –

    ““Laurent Koscielny was equally impressive and magnificent throughout, even though it looked like he had heavy cramp late on. He constantly offered himself to danger, committing fully to the ball every time and he really bullied Barcelona’s players. The way he picked off their runs oozed intelligence.”

    can’t remember if it was that game, or the one in 2013, where he played the entire game with Messi in his back pocket.

  84. Cesc Appeal

    In all seriousness, do Spurs have the best record of a top(ish) team currently in the EPL of bringing through young talent into their first team?

  85. Jim Lahey

    @Wallace –

    Same year as that Barca game you cited. He was incredibly inconsistent during his first few years at the club.

    No one saying he isn’t one of the best today, but he was very average during those first few years.

  86. Wallace

    Jim

    “Anyone that disagrees with me is a troll….”

    you don’t see anything wrong with posting that clip on an Arsenal blog?

  87. Wallace

    “No one saying he isn’t one of the best today, but he was very average during those first few years.”

    when he was shutting down Messi and making his debut for France…those years?

  88. Jim Lahey

    @Wallace –

    “you don’t see anything wrong with posting that clip on an Arsenal blog?”

    Oh… sorry is there a rule about what clips you can post and those you can’t? It happened didn’t it? Why pretend it didn’t.

    The clip is a visual to highlight the inconsistency of his early game, a juxtaposition to his game against Barca.

    Try not to be so sensitive.

  89. Wallace

    Jim

    “The clip is a visual to highlight the inconsistency of his early game, a juxtaposition to his game against Barca. ”

    dunno, you can refer to it, no problem with that. posting the actual clip just seems a little…excessive.

  90. Jim Lahey

    @Wallace –

    Jesus.. Its not the Ramsey or Eduardo leg breaks, its a mistake that cost us a league cup..

    Highlights of the CL final in 06 are posted on here with no bother, mainly to highlight Almunia’s poor performance.

  91. Jim Lahey

    Regarding the Payet situation, I think the club should be showing interest in brining him in even if he is 30. We have all seen what he is capable of and at the moment we really are lacking a bit in the areas he could improve on.

    Also he isn’t cup tied for the CL which would be a huge bonus for us going in against Bayern. And the fact that he could remain in London could be a draw for him.

    Think he is a quality player that is available, and how often does a situation like that come about?

  92. London gunner

    “And what’s with him using a word like “vibes”? Is he hanging out now in his free time with a crew of pot-heads in Camden Town, trying to figure out how “the young people” think? The “vibes you get,” Arsene? Dear Lord.”

    This was hilarious bamford! Well done

  93. China

    Did Walcott really say on live TV that Wenger didn’t say anything vs city st half time?

    If that’s true that’s fucking criminal

    And yet I’m not surprised