Mahrez: Agent games or genuine interest? | What was that Ivan interview about?

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courtesy @allthatchas

courtesy @allthatchas

A day on from the extraordinary rant in the press from Ivan Gazidis, I’m still left pondering why the hell he came out and said all those things.

Why?

  • He was mostly stretching the truth or telling out right lies
  • Ivan always has a reason for speaking. He’s very strategic and very controlled.
  • It read like an apology for a summer that hasn’t failed yet

So what sparked the interview?

Was he told by Stan that Wenger needed some public backing? Was Ivan waxing the surfboard, bracing himself for the tidal wave of criticism he’s going to get when Arsene Wenger selfishly puts pen to paper on a new deal? Was he bracing us for another car crash summer?

I mean, seriously, bleating on about not being able to compete when the two teams that sandwiched you in the league were Spurs and Leicester is quite incredible. Then you are looking at clubs who’ve never had Champions League / have weaker match day revenues / weaker sponsorship deals spending huge amounts of cash around us.

The more I read that interview, the more baffled I am about it’s origins.

Then you look at our summer so far. We’ve lost about £300k per week of the wage bill by losing Arteta, Flamini and Rosicky. We’ve signed 3 players in Xhaka who is clearly a great buy, then two players who will almost certainly be sent out on loan. Then you look at Danny Welbeck being out for the season, then you look at the impending disaster we have coming at centre back… and you can only conclude that we’re 3 layers down before we’ve even started, excluding at least 3 players we needed last season already.

… and Ivan thinks we can compete?

I mean, I have to admire him sticking to the company mantra of ‘WENGER IS GOD’, but jeez, at least come with a line of argument that makes sense.

What he really wants to say is…

‘I’ve been working behind the scenes to make a lot of the wrong right, but if you put great thinking and smart tech in the hands of someone who doesn’t care for it, you’re not going to improve on the pitch’

That’s what he should be saying, but he can’t. We’ll be stuck with Wenger for 3 more years. If he finished 8th this year, doesn’t spend any money and cuts our wage bill, he won’t actually have cost Stan any money. So what’s stopping Stan from giving him one more contract to say cheerio? Nothing.

We are stuck in managerial purgatory. Until the king abdicates, we will continue down this insane path.

… and look, I absolutely promise you, after this King is gone, many things will leak out of the club about the real Arsene Wenger. He won’t be able to run the same buttoned up ‘king-maker’ shit he can now when this all collapses.

Anyway, just to put a smile on your face before I leave. Mahrez is being linked with Arsenal for £40m. Apparently his agent refused to deny the story. I don’t know what to think here. Vardy made sense. He was 29, he had a break clause and he’d be feeding off Ozil. Mahrez is young, he has a contract, he has Champions League football and Leicester have already sold Kante.

Is this a real story? Or is it agent games to get his client a better deal? Could be a mix of both, but I won’t hold my breath. Mahrez is a super, super talented player… but if we spend £40m on him, where is our cash for a striker? I mean, we can afford to do both. Just not sure Wenger has the balls to do that because a £110m summer would make him accountable.

We all know Wenger does not like to be accountable.

Before I leave. Tomas Tuchel having a blinding summer so far:

A.Schürrle M.Götze O.Dembélé S.Rode R.Guerreiro M.Bartra E.Mor M.Merino

8 players. But Arsene said you can’t sign 8 players and settle them? Let’s see…

That’s me done. SEE YOU TOMORROW.

368 Responses to “Mahrez: Agent games or genuine interest? | What was that Ivan interview about?”

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  1. Joe

    STV

    Don’t worry. Wallace will be banned for
    2 months following our bet. His bet is that 2 players will be signed(before Liverpool match) that will be starting 11 or challenging for starting 11

  2. Marc

    naija

    None of the PL clubs give a fuck about their own fans who attend matches, if they did they wouldn’t have sold their souls to TV money.

    So as TV money is the thing they value the most why don’t you start the revolution. Cancel all TV and internet subscriptions that feature PL football, refuse to frequent bars / restaurants etc which show PL games, don’t buy newspapers who do match reports on PL football, don’t visit websites who cover PL football.

    Once you’ve done all of the above then maybe I start to listen to you on how to support my club.

  3. Joe

    The faith and belief some put into wenger is crazy after getting disappointed year after year. Like a 70 year old man is suddenly going to change his ways

    The only way he buys 2 more is after we get spanked by Liverpool and drop
    Points to
    Leicester. Then you will see a trolley dash

  4. Barking Arsene

    Naija

    Can you explain why people expressing their anger at a club that they support (via any medium) for not spending the money that they as fans put into it is silly?

    Could you also please not make the assumption that I or anyone else don’t pay into Arsenal please.

    Even without a season ticket I invest in team wear and other items from the shop etc. It all counts and I’m entitled to be upset if we as a club don’t make use of the money we have.

    70% of fans in the stadium sang that song. So there is 30% of our fan base who are disenfranchised. That’s poor from the clubs perspective.

  5. champagne charlie

    Marc

    “Answer me a simple question – Why would Kroenke not allow the club to use it’s full resources to push forward and improve the squad?”

    But using your same logic why is it ok for you to seemingly assert Wenger is happy not to spend money improving his team? It can be argued via each perspective, you choose to blame Wenger while AlexHenry is suggesting the owner takes a sizeable blame.

  6. naijagunner

    @Barking

    I am just telling you frankly the meltdown talk has grown stale

    Arsenal fans have had too many meltdowns online it has become irrelevant

    @Marco

    I can’t recollect telling you how to support anyone…..you are already having a meltdown on here daily as it is so why should mahrez joining Chelsea be any different…..has he personally told you he is dying to play for Arsenal ??

  7. Marc

    Charlie

    I’ve never said that Wenger doesn’t want to improve the quality of the team. The way I see it is that Wenger thinks current fees are obscene and he won’t pay that amount – which is fine if you can find players for less.

    Makes more sense that Kroenke hoarding cash that he can’t get his hands on.

  8. Marc

    naija

    I was commenting on the general feeling around the fan base. I get really pissed off with people who don’t attend matches telling me what I should do when I’m at a match.

  9. champagne charlie

    Marc

    Does it make more sense? If Kroenke is content with how things are on the sporting side he won’t want any ‘surplus’ spending on players as cash reserves help a clubs valuation. Your point assumes Kroenke wants Arsenal challenging for trophies, none of his other teams show this prowess, which isn’t clear at all.

  10. Relieable Sauce

    Any sensible fan will have written this season off before last season ended and should prefer Wenger not spending vast sums of cash.
    This will hasten his departure and increase the liklihood of a clean break rather than prolong the charade any longer. Why would you possibly want anything other than that ?

    Sad state of affairs but thats the reality of the situation.

  11. Marc

    Charlie

    Spending some of the cash reserves would not have any major impact on the clubs valuation. Can’t comment on the other clubs he owns but how much cash have they built up?

  12. Thank you and goodnight

    @Reliable

    Wenger’s going nowhere mate. The cunt could get is relegated and the AKB’S would still be making excuses for him….”Isn’t that decent of wenger to get relegated to allow another team to go for the title and make it easier for them”…..

  13. Barking Arsene

    Charlie

    All I would say is that based on Wengers record in the transfer market (pre Kronke even) he isn’t someone who will spend large sums of money on multiple players at one time.

    He does occasionally spend a bit but it’s few and far between.

    That is what holds us back really – we realistically need three good quality signings. Midfielder (got this in Xhaka) wide player and a cf.

    I’ve even left off a CB for now and will assume Holding is going to be sufficient cover.

    Now Wenger likes to scout and develop players but other teams have caught up with us in that regard. As a manger he has to adapt his philosophy in order to counter this but he hasn’t.

    I am not a Kronke fan but much of this is down to Wenger, even if it does sit well with Kronke and his business model.

  14. naijagunner

    Charlie once asked a question here and no one replied

    Would Wenger survive under the ownership of Abrahmovic ?

    Would he under Perez ?

    Under the Sheikh at city ?

    So why are we so quick to excuse Kroenke?

  15. grooveydaddy

    ‘Bad Reasons for Extra Cash

    All the same, textbook guidelines should not be ignored. High levels of cash on the balance sheet can frequently signal danger ahead. If cash is more or less a permanent feature of
    the company’s balance sheet , investors need to ask why the money is not being put to use. Cash could be there because management has run out of investment opportunities or is too short sighted and doesn’t know what to do with the cash.

    Sitting on cash can be an expensive luxury because it has an opportunity cost , which amounts to the difference between the interest earned on holding cash and price paid for having the cash as measured by the company’s cost of capital. If a company, say, can get 20% return on equity investing in a new project or by expanding the business, it is a costly mistake to keep the cash in the bank. If the project’s return is less than the company’s cost of capital, the cash should be returned to shareholders.

    Don’t be fooled by the popular explanation that extra cash gives managers more flexibility and speed to make acquisitions when they see fit. Companies that hold excess cash carry
    agency costs whereby they are tempted to pursue “empire building”. Top managers can fritter away cash on wasteful acquisitions and bad projects in a bid to boost their personal power and prestige. With this mind, be wary of balance sheet items like “strategic reserves” and “restructuring reserves”. They are often just excuses for hoarding cash.

    Even worse, a cash-rich company runs the risk of being careless. The company may fall prey to sloppy habits, including inadequate control of spending and an unwillingness continually to prune growing expenses. Large cash holdings also remove some of managers’ pressure to perform.’

    It seems to make little sense, business or otherwise,for a football club to keep such a large cash reserve…

  16. champagne charlie

    Marc

    True, it wouldn’t be massive but it’s still motive for him not to spend. By contrast you’re asking why wouldn’t he want to invest to strengthen our position as a club, the very same point can be made for why he seemingly allows Wenger to do as is being suggested on here unchallenged?

    Buck stops with Kroenke, don’t like Wenger then ask why the owner employs him. If you don’t like those answers then the biggest issue isn’t Wenger.

  17. seg

    Wenger was asked what he would if given a hundred million: he said he would give it back. And this was way before Stan too!

  18. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Joe

    I know

    I loved GG an the golden years
    May 26 1989 best weekend of my life

    Wengers first ten were emu akin taking club forward , but not special
    Georges were special cos he actually supported the club an loved it.

    Wenger sees it as a cash cow in my opinion

    Barking

    Yeah he threw it all awAy when he started meddling upstairs as to go using on pitch levels…

  19. alexanderhenry

    Marc

    ‘Answer me a simple question – Why would Kroenke not allow the club to use it’s full resources to push forward and improve the squad?’

    Good question.

    When Kroenke bought his controlling stake- it was around £400 million I think. It’s very hard to find out exactly how much- he also bought most of arsenal’s huge debt on the stadium.

    It is his and Usmanov’s debt. By keeping money in the club- it’s well over £200 million at the moment and with the club making profits, the fans in effect are paying off Kroenke’s debt. As the debt is structured- I think arsenal pay off £20 million a year, this will continue until – I think- 2031.

    There will be some transfer windows when arsenal will spend a fair bit, like the ozil and sanchez windows, but in the long term it ensures that Kroenke will not sanction really significant or sustained spending…..possibly ever.
    The club will remain cash rich, but spendthrift. and will continue to preach ‘self sustainability’ , as illustrated recently in Gazidis’ last statement.

    Kroenke will continue to have his debt paid off by the fans as long as they keep pitching up.

    That is why there is so much readily available but unspent money at arsenal- more than any other club in football incidentally .

    It is not because arsene wenger refuses to spend because he thinks it is vulgar, which is what many posters on here seem to think.

  20. Bamford10

    Naija

    “So why are we so quick to excuse Kroenke?”

    No one is excusing him at all: he should’ve given Wenger an ultimatum or fired him long ago.

    He is not to blame for anything else, however.

  21. Bamford10

    I cannot believe AlexanderHenry is still here bothering us with this nonsense. People! This must stop.

  22. Bamford10

    Cash reserves do not help a club’s valuation. Complete nonsense.

    One, a purchased player is listed as an asset at the purchase price on the balance sheet for a year. For that year then, there is no difference between 42m in cash reserves and a 42m Mesut Ozil.

    Both are worth 42m on the balance sheet. Exactly the same.

    The difference, however, is that unlike 42m in cash, Mesut Ozil can play football, can help us win things, can attract a global audience, can improve our commercial deals.

    Any intelligent observer of the game can see that one is better off both football-wise and financially investing cash into top quality players not sitting on it as if one were some 70 year-old-woman hoarding cash beneath her mattress.

    Our 70-year-old woman happens to be a man, and his name is Arsene Wenger.

  23. Bamford10

    Marc

    “I’ve never said that Wenger doesn’t want to improve the quality of the team. The way I see it is that Wenger thinks current fees are obscene and he won’t pay that amount – which is fine if you can find players for less.

    Makes more sense that Kroenke hoarding cash that he can’t get his hands on.”

    One of the clearest and most sensible descriptions of the situation seen here in some time.

    Bravo, Marc.

  24. naijagunner

    People seem to ignore one trait of Wenger

    He is a sore loser

    The only problem we have is that he is not fighting to win trophies

    He is fighting to win inspire of popular opinion he has to spend to do so

    He wants to win inspite of his obvious disdain for super agents

    He wants to win this way and has refused to accept its not possible

    Don’t for one moment believe he is hoarding cash for anyone…..he is just playing his own game of trying to prove he is right

    So the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the man who has let him play this game of “see I was right all long” at the expense of major trophies

  25. Relieable Sauce

    TYAG

    Not sure his pride will be able to take whats coming, scurrying off upstairs at the end of this season is possibly his a Stans best option if they intend to continue at the club.

    They can spin falling out of the top 4 no problem and will even use it to praise a mythical virtue and the akbs will lap it up gleefully. Its what will the flip-floppers do thats the key this season.
    They are easily placated so we really need Wenger to screw up big time to get the change thats needed…even then Arsenal fans do have this battered wife syndrome baaad.

  26. champagne charlie

    Bamford

    As ever, even after yday’s supposed truce, you come in half-cocked with your usual derision.

    “Any intelligent observer of the game can see that one is better off both football-wise and financially investing cash into top quality players not sitting on it”

    ‘Any intelligent observer’ is the classic caveat for ‘anyone that thinks like me’….too bad you contradict yourself in that same sentence. Kroenke can’t be too intelligent then if he’s letting an employee of his affect the value of his asset negatively.

    As ever the spotlight is on Wenger, but completely ignoring the fact he has a boss who should be the regulator of his performance. You’re scathing towards the managers performance but completely dismissive of Kroenke’s accountability.

  27. Bamford10

    Naija

    Sorry, but no. He is only to blame for not firing Wenger. Wenger is to blame for everything else.

    If Simeone or Conte or Ancelotti were managing Arsenal today, each would be pursuing titles ruthlessly, each would be using every pound available, each would be culling deadwood and looking always for top quality. That Stan Kroenke was their owner would be irrelevant.

    The owner has given Wenger everything a manager needs to compete: it is Wenger who has decided not to. It is Wenger who has decided to prioritize other things.

  28. naijagunner

    And I think this Mahrez rumour should be treated with contempt ….its just click bait so they can amuse themselves with Arsenal fans usual over the top tantrums online
    I highly doubt he is moving let alone to Arsenal

  29. naijagunner

    @Bamford

    So we have two problems not one. And by the way do you trust Kroenke and the sly Gazidis to make the right appointment when Wenger eventually leaves ??

    Because I for one don’t

  30. Scrvaldio

    Grooveydaddy is spot on. Only idiots hoard fiat currency and with interest rates at such low levels and inflation to think about.
    Add to the fa

  31. N5

    Barking, RE your conversation about meltdowns with Naija.

    I actually think you have a point. If Arsenal fail to secure any other players only to have a repeat (and probably worse) season to last year, then the frustration WILL definitely bleed across to most of those “One Arsene Wenger” supporters from the end of the season.

    3 years ago only a few were moaning and they were mainly on forums and outside the groud in the pubs. 2 years ago there was audible groaning, BSM marches and Arsenal not Arsene FC banners etc started appearing. Last year, well we all know how that went.

    Every season more and more see the light. I am fully in your corner that there will be a meltdown. A Meltdown doesn’t have to be some prehistoric lynching for it to be a meltdown. Fighting between the supporters, people cancelling the tickets. Every forum bar Untold bad mouthing the club and so on all equals a modern meltdown and YES Naija, it’ll mainly start on social network. Wait and see.

  32. Marc

    Bamford

    Years ago me and a mate were discussing someone we were being linked with – can’t even remember who it was now but the fee was £2 million ish. Anyway I said to my mate what do you reckon about signing him his response should be forced reading for some on here.

    “I’d rather see £2 million sitting on the bench or running round than sitting in the bank”

  33. Relieable Sauce

    Simeone and Kronke/Wenger and Abramovic.

    Which pairing is more likely to challenge for the PL and CL ?

  34. Bamford10

    Champagne

    “Kroenke can’t be too intelligent then if he’s letting an employee of his affect the value of his asset negatively.”

    One, are you suggesting that we wouldn’t have been better off (both footballing-wise and financially) if we had spent some of that 200m on quality players?

    I don’t see how you could possibly argue that.

    Two, I assume that Kroenke is in fact an intelligent person, but he is not intelligent about football, thus he isn’t able to judge Wenger in that domain.

    That he hasn’t judged Wenger more harshly on financial grounds — i.e., “why, Arsene, are you allowing so much cash lie fallow?”, “this is not the most effective use of the club’s money” — is probably down to a couple of things: one, while this isn’t as effective as investing said cash in players, it’s only marginally less effective. As Kroenke has seen the value of the enterprise continue to grow, he’s probably been willing to overlook this marginal issue, as it isn’t that big of a deal (financially) at the end of the day.

    Secondly, there is some risk to spending money on players and Wenger has clearly convinced Kroenke and the board that this ultra-frugal, ultra-cautious approach is best.

    The problem is that while it has produced steady and stable financial results, it has resulted in stagnation, futility and mediocrity on the football pitch. But Kroenke isn’t able to judge this last aspect adequately, so we are where we are.

    For now.

  35. vicky

    “a purchased player is listed as an asset at the purchase price on the balance sheet for a year. For that year then, there is no difference between 42m in cash reserves and a 42m Mesut Ozil.”

    That’s not correct. There are two major differences

    1. A player is treated as an intangible asset while cash is a tangible asset. A valuation involving major quotient of intangible assets is not considered robust for the valuation of intangible asset is dependent on the perception of people valuating the entity which can vary from person to person.

    2. The value of players as an asset depreciates steeply year on year from accounting point of view whereas the value of cash remains more or less the same unless there are exceptional circumstances like devaluation of currency.

  36. Bamford10

    Reliable

    Wenger would be fired by Abramovic within two months of the start of his tenure.

    Someone contend for the title in his first year and win a title by his third or fourth.

  37. Bamford10

    Vicky

    Yes, but for the year, the value of the player does not depreciate.

    And certain intangible assets — correct me if I’m wrong — might be assigned MORE VALUE by an investor (rather than less) than they are assigned on the balance sheet. For example, I don’t know what value Bellerin is assigned on the balance sheet at the moment, but I guarantee that he is worth far more than that on the market.

    Smart teams invest in quality players, not cash.

  38. Bamford10

    Reliable

    Wenger would be fired by Abramovic within two months of the beginning of his tenure.

    Simeone, on the other hand, would contend for the title in his first year and win a title by his third or fourth.

  39. Bamford10

    Champagne

    “As ever, even after yday’s supposed truce, you come in half-cocked with your usual derision.”

    Charlie, my “any intelligent observer” line was in no way aimed at you or frankly anyone else. It is merely a rhetorical gesture.

    Relax.

    I’m not deriding anyone here — save AlexanderHenry, who fully deserves it.

  40. champagne charlie

    Bamford

    No I’m not disputing signings are a wiser investment than hoarding money, I’ve advocated signings this window time after time.

    Question is why you don’t consider Kroenke a massive problem for:

    1. “but he is not intelligent about football, thus he isn’t able to judge Wenger in that domain.”
    2. “Wenger has clearly convinced Kroenke and the board that this ultra-frugal, ultra-cautious approach is best.”

    Both of these “arguments” scream one thing, and that’s Kroenke shouldn’t be anywhere near Arsenal football club. Point one says he hasn’t a fucking clue about the nature of his investment, which is never sound business practice. Also, point two is a completely made up scenario on your part as means of rationalising the current state of Arsenal – whilst pinning another line of blame on Wenger.

    I mean give over, Wenger has convinced the Owner and Board to act a certain way? Who the fuck do we have in charge then if there was a shred of truth to that.

    You just said Abramovich would sack Wenger after two months, are the lights not flashing at this point re:Kroenke?

  41. STV

    So let me guess what’s new here from the blinkered fans??

    Another day of blinkered flip-floppers blaming fans for bashing Wenger, for voicing their opinion, Supporting their master with tooth and nails, Blaming Kroenke etc.. All too predictable.

    @N5 You’re spot on man!!

  42. Bamford10

    Nice to see the Tour riders smiling and chatting with one another as they leisurely enjoy the final day. A fantastic sporting event, the TDF.

  43. vicky

    Bamford

    Yes, in case there is an appreciation in the market value of a player, the gain is notional and then it goes in to a different account called other comprehensive income which again is not considered very robust as the gain is “notional/unrealized”. Only if the player is actually sold for higher amount than he was bought for does the value of asset on BS goes up. I am not suggesting we shouldn’t buy quality players but yes in technical terms, hoarding cash does help in valuation.

    There is one more point which I think Groovedaddy raised about not using cash. That applies to the companies in corporate world where too much cash is taken as a signal of companies’ inefficiency/inability to find suitable value enhancing projects. But I doubt in football, marquee signings increase the value of a club unless the club making the signings actually win things like Manchester United or Real Madrid do. So, it’s important to win trophies if a club really goes big in transfer market, otherwise keeping cash is an alternate best option. Buying big players and not winning is a disaster in terms of business valuation.

  44. alexanderhenry

    Let’s put things in perspective

    I’ve posted links to many articles on here from reputable sources, which show Kroenke to be a greedy, unambitious and widely disliked owner- at all his clubs.

    In return, I’ve asked if anyone can find anything positive about the man- I don’t accept articles celebrating how rich he is.

    I haven’t had a single response.

    I strongly suspect that none of you have actually read any of the articles, even in part.

    It’s time you all pulled your heads out of the sand, so, here are some quotes for you:

    Nasri on his city transfer:

    “Wenger told me that, if Cesc [Fàbregas] left, I would stay but Kroenke wanted the money’

    Nasri on Wenger:

    “Wenger is the best coach I’ve worked with. I only regret not having more discussions with Arsène Wenger when I left. He’s the one who understood me the most and made me the player I am. I’m thankful.”

    Ian Wright on fan anger:

    ‘They should be directing their anger and criticism to people like Kroenke, people like Dick Law.’

    Ancellotti on Kroenke and the Glazers:

    ‘The owners of Arsenal and Manchester United are removed [from the club] in America. They are not so passionate. There are two important aspects in football – the result and the financial aspects. I think Arsenal and Manchester United are more focused on the financial aspects.’

    Nina Bracewell smith on Kroenke:

    ‘If making money was the motivating factor, surely there are better ways,’
    Football is a business of passion and SK has no passion for AFC.
    (Kroenke) shows he cares very little. Why he wanted to be part of AFC I do not know.’

    Heynckes (Bayern coach)

    “You have to take into consideration Arsenal are competing with Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City. Over the years they have been selling their best players and these other teams get in top world stars, so I don’t think it is fair to blame Arsène Wenger for that,”

    Usmanov on his role at the club:

    ‘I was even ready to take total control. That wasn’t possible because certain people preferred to make a profit and create, using me, an outside enemy. I remain portrayed as a pirate, an enemy. They have won that game.”

    St Louis Rams fan on kroenke:

    ‘We bought their tickets, wore their jerseys, drank their overpriced beer. We cheered them year after losing year, and in return, they trashed us, then left us. Stan, you’re worth $8 billion dollars. That’s not enough? Well, here’s some free advice. Just because it’s legal and you’re rich enough to do it — that doesn’t make it right.”

    Benjamin Hochman from the St Louis post on Kroenke:

    ‘Stan Kroenke will forever be remembered for what was worst: moving the team so the billionaire could make more billions.’

    Kroenke on Kroenke:

    “If you want to win Championships then you would never get involved.”

    So, anyone find anything positive on Kroenke?

  45. Joe

    alexander.

    Would wenger have won the league last season with Leicester city.

    Simple answer please.

    Yes or no

    Would fergie have won with our squad. Yes or no

    Pep or Jose with our squad.

    My answers are : Hell no

    Yes

    Yes

    Yes.

  46. Ughelligunner

    Red, if in 2001 Viera called wenger out, and in 2002 he won the double, who is right? Does it mean wenger worked his magic with the players deemed average by Viera?

    And if wenger was a miser in His early years, why is everyone accusing him of hoarding money today, when it has been “Arsenal’s Principle” right from the days of Dean.
    It isn’t wenger fault then, it is the clubs principles.

  47. Bamford10

    Champagne

    I see Kroenke as a less-than-optimal owner (for the reasons above), but not as a disaster in any way shape or form.

    Why? Because he gives the manager ample funds to compete and allows the manager to make the footballing decisions. There is no problem with any of this.

    The only problem with this at moment is that the manager is Arsene Wenger, and the man making all of the footballing & spending decisions is Arsene Wenger.

    Were a Simeone or Conte making those decisions, we would be just fine; that Stan Kroenke is our owner would be irrelevant.

  48. STV

    “Wenger told me that, if Cesc [Fàbregas] left, I would stay but Kroenke wanted the money’

    Alexander can you get the citation for the above? Thanks.

    Btw I think the only reason Kroenke not getting as much discontent as he should is because of a fraud that’s managing Arsenal. That’s the IMMEDIATE problem Arsenal facing according to most disillusioned fans incl myself..

  49. alexanderhenry

    Two points:

    1) Anyone with any sense about just about anything, can grasp the fact that an owner of any institution is ultimately responsible for that institution.

    Therefore at arsenal the buck stops with Kroenke.

    …unless wenger has put him under some kind of hypnotic trance. Maybe he has.

    2) Anyone who thinks that any manager anywhere, managing any team, would willingly turn down money and resources offered to him o the basis of not wanting to spend money on principle, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

  50. champagne charlie

    Bamford

    ” Because he gives the manager ample funds to compete and allows the manager to make the footballing decisions.”

    This is where we differ. You have total faith in whatever public statements are pumped out into the ether and take them as true. I choose not to believe them because public statements have a history of being used in situational management.

    If Wenger came out and said Kroenke is withholding money from me can you imagine the meltdown it would cause?

    I’m merely not sold on the notion Wenger has access to the funds being suggested. Despite your opinions of the man, it isn’t a rational argument to sit and suggest a manager of one of Europe’s top 15 clubs refuses to spend money that he himself won’t be seeing (to use the Kroenke argument you praised earlier in Wengers favour).

    My own opinion is that Kroenke inhibits Wenger enough to where he accepts, provides public backing, and sadly overstates his abilities in dealing with the shortfall he gets in the finance department. I disagree an Ancelotti would thrive if swapped in, I think they’d likely be outspoken in how paltry their financial power is and demand more. Wenger to me appears to be less confronting, and foolishly thinks he can compete without the access to funds – even though his recent transfer activity is evidence that the former nous for ‘under the radar’ types has been well and truly stagnant.

    In conclusion, both there to blame but Kroenke is the biggest leech there is and if 1 change could be made in the entire Arsenal sphere it would be a change of ownership.

  51. alexanderhenry

    STV

    You don’t rate wenger. I respect that point of view.

    However, managers always bear the brunt of fan discontent at all clubs. When things go wrong the press, pundits, fans, even players blame the manager.

    A lot of the time they are quite right to.

    However, Pro or anti wenger, our current manager isn’t the real issue .

    The real issue is this:

    Why is there well over £200 million in the bank , unspent?

    Wenger is the manager. He;s employed by the club to manage the team. He doesn’t have say on financial matters. Those decisions are made by the owners of the club. That’s becasue they own it. It’s their money.. their investment.
    Usmanov has no say at all- he’s not even on the board.

    Only Kroenke decides overall financial policy.

  52. alexanderhenry

    Champagne Charlie

    ‘This is where we differ. You have total faith in whatever public statements are pumped out into the ether and take them as true. I choose not to believe them because public statements have a history of being used in situational management.’

    ..yes

    ‘If Wenger came out and said Kroenke is withholding money from me can you imagine the meltdown it would cause? I’m merely not sold on the notion Wenger has access to the funds being suggested. Despite your opinions of the man, it isn’t a rational argument to sit and suggest a manager of one of Europe’s top 15 clubs refuses to spend money that he himself won’t be seeing (to use the Kroenke argument you praised earlier in Wengers favour).’

    Quite right. It isn’t a rational argument. It’s a nutty argument.

    ‘In conclusion, both there to blame but Kroenke is the biggest leech there is and if 1 change could be made in the entire Arsenal sphere it would be a change of ownership.’

    Yep..very well put.

  53. Doublethink

    “Wenger told me that, if Cesc [Fàbregas] left, I would stay but Kroenke wanted the money’
    —–
    Because he was gonna let his contract run down and leave on a free, personally I think it was a good decision to sell him we just didn’t replace him well enough.

  54. alexanderhenry

    Champagne

    Regarding your last post, you’re quite right to point out the level of naivety on here. It’s staggering at times.

    On spending, arsenal football club via Gazidis, peter hill wood , sir chips and even wenger, have been misleading arsenal fans for years.
    We’ve been fed a load of evasive., innacurate PR speak for years.

    ‘Self sustainability’ and ‘we don’t buy stars, we make them’ are two examples.

  55. Thank you and goodnight

    FFS same old lame excuses. It’s got fuck all to do about money FFS. The man’s finished,he’s shit if he was ever any good anyway. Money isn’t reason he’s constantly tactically out thought by other managers(more and more each year),money isn’t reason he no longer has an eye for young talent. Money isn’t reason players regress under him. Money isn’t the reason the team always finds ways to bottle it. Money isn’t the reason he doesn’t know his best team or their best positions. The guy is finished end of

  56. champagne charlie

    Thank you and goodnight

    What are you talking about here? You’re arguing a point that’s not being talked about so what lame old excuses are you rambling on about?