Ramsey desperately flirting with a La Liga that’s probably not interested

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OH HEY MORNING.

I hope you’re good. I’m in the Hamptons this weekend with rowdy English friends. This is what you do in America to showcase your middle-class credentials. Real shame of it is I’m with two AKBs. The worst type, the ‘Wenger outs’ during the season, but now the dust has settled, it’s…

‘I think I can make a sound argument for every decision Wenger has made’

This is going to be a long weekend.

Anyway, who is excited about more signings? ME!

Xhaka has really lifted my spirits. I also think it’s interesting how hard Arsenal are going in the press with the ‘WE HAVE A LEADER’… I don’t really get it. Are they doing it because they want to tell the world that Wenger has finally owned up to a glaring error? Maybe.

I also like how the media are really focusing in on the comment that Xhaka said the manager was a legend. It seems to be a standard question with a new player…

‘Did the manager influence your decisions to move here?’

The player then says…

‘Yes, he has been like the father I always knew existed but legalese prevented me from being with him. Now I’m with him, and it feels right’

The media then say…

‘It’s amazing that players still move for his legend, maybe those Wenger out boys are fu*king stupid?’

… and look, he’s a pull. But come on, so is £100k a week. London. THE CLUB.

Also, when has a player ever said…

‘Actually, I’m not even sure who the manager is? I’m here for the red light district’

How about this for BANTER. Aaron Ramsey won’t rule out a move to La Liga.

“I’ve said it before – I would love to play in La Liga one day, at one of the big clubs.

“I watch the league every week. It suits my style. Maybe I will (move) someday, who knows what will happen in the future?”

I’ve said it before, I reckon if someone drops a bid for him, he’ll be moved on. Arguably one of the biggest disappointments of the last two seasons. A man playing for a move in my opinion. Not a very clever footballer. I’d not be sad if he left.

BUT, who would take him? Hardly playing like a man with any intentions of pushing his game to the standard he’d need to be at to win in Spain.

I’d be sad if Ozil left. The club are concerned that Bayern Munich are showing interest in our creative genius. That would be a worry. The temptation of a modern set up and trophies must be a big one. We’ll see though, we’ll see.

Ferguson dropped a big old praise piece for Wenger.

“Now he gets a lot of criticism, but I admire that you’re not going to bend to the will of the critics. He stays with what he believes in. And I think people who do that are outstanding coaches.

“When you talk about consistency, Arsene’s never changed the way that his side has played.

Not sure about that last comment. That’s kind of alarming in 20 years that he’s never changed his style. Especially when Ferguson knows full well the reason he succeeeded is because it was imperative he changed his style to keep up with the times.

Talking of managers I dislike, Mourinho has landed.

‘I prefer to focus on the giant club I have in my hands now, and I think what the fans are expecting me to say is that I want to win. I think what the players need to listen to is: “I want to win”.

Really not looking forward to him being back in the league. That’s 6 points we won’t see.

Lewandowski is apparently a target of Madrid this summer.

Someone told me that there is a Head of Sidebar at The Daily Mail.

Man, I’m trailing here… I need a beer. Have a good day!

 

924 Responses to “Ramsey desperately flirting with a La Liga that’s probably not interested”

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  1. Relieable Sauce

    Funny how the akbs are always quick to change the subject to other managers and clubs when they cant come up with credible answers to Arsenals failings.

  2. alexanderhenry

    Maybe we should put the ‘developing’ talent issue gently to one side.

    Being adept at developing players from scratch to become world class is not something top managers at top clubs have to be good at doing anymore. In fact they have very little to do with it.

    Apart from last season which, let’s be honest was a one off. Those who spend the most win the most.

    It is highly unlikely that arsenal will win the PL or CL next season. That’s because the club will not spend enough money on the squad.
    It’s that simple.

  3. Samesong

    nope, Hazard was a complete unknown before he rocked up at Chelsea for £32m 🙂

    lol how do you figure that one out? Arsenal were interested in Hazard at one point.

  4. Wallace

    STV

    “Case in point how did you find Drogba at Marseille”

    he was a fuckin’ wrecking ball! wouldn’t argue Mourinho improved him, but he was already pretty fuckin’ monstrous.

  5. alexanderhenry

    Relieable Sauce

    There is only one reason for arsenal’s failings. Not enough money has been spent on players…and who’s to blame?

  6. Cesc Appeal

    Sorry, I thought Wenger was the manager of Arsenal FC, not Arsenal U21’s, all I can see is a full of day of debate about youth development.

    I think Wenger use to be a very good manager for developing young or unheard of talent, I don’t think he’s that great any more.

    Kozz is probably the last real success for me, and Bellerin may be on his way, other than that, no one really.

  7. tunnygriffboy

    Alex Henry

    That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Development comes at different levels and some players will be better than others. To play for a top four side you have to be a good player.

    In order to get the few that can progress to play at that level many many more won’t make it and will have to move elsewhere. That is only natural and it’s the same for all the big clubs. We have to develop talent because even though we can afford to bring in the top players we cannot afford to buy them for every position like other clubs

    We messed up big time last summer by not getting in at least one top acquisition.

  8. Wallace

    Relieable

    “Funny how the akbs are always quick to change the subject to other managers and clubs when they cant come up with credible answers to Arsenals failings.”

    still waiting for you to come up with a manager who’s developed more young players than Wenger. I listed about 20, 6 of them world class.

    surely if he’s no good at it there’ll be plenty better than him, right?

  9. tunnygriffboy

    Reliable

    I’m sure that most who post on here are aware of the clubs failings but the main discussion today has been aboy developing players. People have different views on it that’s all.

  10. STV

    Wallace yeah he was a wrecking wrecking ball and monsterous, but wasn’t even the top scorer in French league.

    Mourinho didn’t ‘devolop’ any of them.

    But Wenger meanwhile was in the development process of Aliadire, Eboue, Sendoros, Cygan, Flamini, Reyes( developed a promising career in to misery), Clichy, Almunia, etc.. in to those who define the Arsenal the next decade.

    Great man!

    You’re not blind.

  11. alexanderhenry

    tunny

    This is where you and I may differ. Our £9 million spend last summer was an absolute scandal.

    Arsenal fc have £200 million in he bank at least. We have the biggest match day receipts from a state of the art new stadium, new sponsorship deals, CL qualification money every year and yet more tv money. We also have not one but two billionaire shareholders.

    The stadium debt excuse is a lie. It is being payed of every year rather like a mortgage and accounts for less than 10% of the club’s annual expenditure. It’s about 12 to 15 million p/a I think.

    Therefore, why on earth did we not spend more last year? In fact, why did we embark on the ‘self sustainable’ route in the first place? Not only could arsenal fc have comfortably spent big last year, but they could have done so in previous years even before the ozil/sanchez windows. Also, we could have kept the star players such as cesc, nasri, rvp, ade and others that we sold off.

    So, have arsenal fc been so miserly because wenger wants to prove he can win with kids and average, cheap signings or is there another reason?

  12. WengerEagle

    It’s debatable alright that Mourinho improves players, it’s pretty unanimous that he has never been a developer of young players though.

    I am struggling to think of a single kid that he has brought through from the academy at a club and moulded into a top player.

    Which is why I’d be worried if I were Rashford at United.

  13. Ughelligunner

    Drogba played in the Uefa league finals before coming to chelsea. How was he developed by Mourhino? Lampard, Terry, seriously? Deco was already starting for Portugal when Mourhino took over Porto. Varane signed because Zidane convinced him, and he went to Madrid. Chelsea always have plutoria of world youth players who constantly win the Uefa youth champions league. Please, just continue with your wenger bashing, rather than put your little rep remaining, on the line

  14. STV

    WE, Varane

    But it’s true one would struggle to find young players he developed. He didn’t have to tbh. But it wasn’t one of his strong points.

  15. alexanderhenry

    Wengereagle

    Managers at top clubs don’t have to develop players anymore. They get to cherry pick the best that’s out there.
    They have to know which cherry to pick though and how to combine that with other ingredients to make the perfect dessert….not a trifle.

  16. Samesong

    WE

    Mourinho gave my mate Robert Woleaston his one and only full debut against Sunderland in his first spell. And he scored also in that game.

  17. Ughelligunner

    Shaun Wright Philips, Sinclair, Obafemi Martins, Josh Macclurikin, Balotelli, Sturidge, were all marginalized under mourhino. Mikel was turned into a permanent defender by Mourhino (this is the only player he turned, howbeit, negatively)

  18. WengerEagle

    STV

    I suppose but Varane wasn’t a nobody at the time, he cost 10 million which is a decent amount for an 18 year old CB, was very highly rated in France at the time and was seen as a bit of a coup for RM.

  19. STV

    Ugh

    But you’d say Wenger devolped Henry, Vieira Ljungburg Pires Bergkamp etc.. Right??

    You can’t see anything beyond Wenger. It’s pathetic.

  20. HillWood

    PhD- I have been to York which as you say is a fantastic place and somewhere called Gunnerside, which was like Emmerdale. There was a waterfall called High Force but it was during a drought of Giroud like proportions

  21. Redtruth

    Henry, Ljungberg, Pires, Bergkamp were already well known before coming to Arsenal only Vieira who Wenger took a punt on, was not known..

  22. Ughelligunner

    Mourhino usually only buys players who make top 11 team in their respective leagues, check out all his buys, it is evident there. That isn’t buying potential. Wenger virtually buys up coming players who haven’t made headlines whatsoever and make them famous. That’s the difference between grooming and making players for me, and wenger is King in that aspect.

    Even if the said player is a dud, like Senderous or Almunia, they made their name under wenger. Under Mourhino you would’nt even make sub bench for pre-season.

  23. alexanderhenry

    Mourihno is an excellent manager. No question there.

    He knows how to drill a defence and his teams always have a solid shape. They are professional, tough and have a winning mentality.
    However, Mourihno does not develop talent. He’s not interested in that side of the game and he knows he doesn’t have to do it.
    A lot of his success comes from his unquestionable self confidence and charisma. Through that he inspires huge loyalty from his players. That first chelsea side would have died for mourinho. They were absolutely committed.

    However, I think with his second spell at chelsea, the mourinho bubble burst. I’ve never seen such a talented squad deteriorate so quickly or so spectacularly.
    His air of invincibilty crumbled into nothing and the way he acted towards his players and backroom staff was shocking.
    Behind closed doors, amongst players, other managers, club owners and directors, journalists, pundits and fans he has to be one of the most disliked men in football.

    Will he be able to resurrect his previous reputation?
    Have man utd made the right choice?

    I’m not so sure.

  24. Wallace

    Redtruth

    “Wallace, Name these hidden gems that Wenger had developed…”

    seeing much of Stewart Houston these days, Red?

  25. STV

    “Even if the said player is a dud, like Senderous or Almunia, they made their name under wenger. Under Mourhino you would’nt even make sub bench for pre-season.”

    They wouldn’t even make sub under any top managers in fact. But why worry? Wenger got you it’s reward From first to second to 4 th ever since. Great man!

    At least you can saw some mediocre shit getting famous.

  26. Ughelligunner

    When a manager buys a player who is 18 years old, but virtually known to be an excellent player, and he continues to improve, the manager takes 20percent for playing him and the player, 80percent for developing excellently because he was well known for his potential.

    When a Manager takes an unknown player who people hardly know and the player excels, i give the manager 80percent and the player 20percent for his development. This is my feasible explanation. Likewise, if the player fumbles, for either cases, the percentage blame reverses.

  27. Paulinho

    How long has Wenger been managing, and how many managers at top clubs get carte blanche’ to bring through younger players with ZERO pressure to win major trophies?

    Wait for the old goal to retire – and other managers another twenty or so years of managing – before comparing. Even then it’s very unlikely you’ll ever find a manager with the advantageous set of circumstances he enjoys.

    Even then, his record with young players is overrated, and no surprise his record has gone downhill the moment the likes of Adams, Keown, moved on. Those players instilled the discipline, mentality needed, not Wenger.

    Owen Coyle developed Wilshere more in one season than Wenger has in five years.

  28. Cesc Appeal

    WE

    Quite interesting that Rashford signed a new deal at United, surely he must have been given some guarantees?

    Otherwise you would have thought with a good chance of him going to the Euros who would have waited to see if there was any interest in him from other clubs.

  29. Phd007

    HillWoodMay 30, 2016 19:00:15
    PhD- I have been to York which as you say is a fantastic place and somewhere called Gunnerside, which was like Emmerdale. There was a waterfall called High Force but it was during a drought of Giroud like proportions
    ————–

    For sure York is a picturesque city..Pity about the residents though..
    Have some wonderful,crazy stories about the place..

    Never heard of Gunnerside..Where’s that in between?

    Ventured into Harrogate..They used to talk about the place,like it was the Kensington& Chelsea of the North..They kept banging on about how rich the area is…

    I used to say to myself come to London,then you’ll know rich..& people don’t shout from the rooftops about it..

    Won’t lie,couldn’t wait to get back to London..

    The weather was horrid..A different beast..
    Lol

  30. WengerEagle

    Cesc

    Curious to see how it plays out, I like the look of Rashford but I’d be very surprised if he was a starter next season for United.

    Mourinho will want a ready made wide forward I reckon and Rashford might end up playing a bench role/super-sub.

    He is only 18/19 tbf.

    Martial is already there, you’d struggle to find many better players in his position atm so can’t see him being sold which is the word on the street.

  31. STV

    Ugh

    None of those claimed to have developed by Wenger were unknowns. They were regarded as top talents wheather it’s Fabregas, Bellerin or Van Persie.

    But he did take lot of unknowns you can see them play their trade all around in 3rd and 4th division.or lower leagues of other countries.

    Mark Randall, Lansbury, Gilles sunu, Lupoli, Frimpong, Jay Emmanuel Thomas, Merida, Barazette, etc.. I am sure you hailed all of them the next big thing while not missing a chance to fawn over your hero.

  32. Phd007

    Hill Wood

    You can say it was a culture shock…
    Didn’t realise how rugby league mad they are up there..

    When I used to venture to the bars,on the screens were predominantly rugby league matches,especially in Leeds..

    I used to ask myself where’s the football matches..
    Took a while to realise,where I was located..

    lol..

  33. Marko

    STV absolute bollox Mourinho developed Varane or nurtured him. Bollox Lens turned him into the player he is today and natural progression. Also when someone gives you a list of Wenger players and you completely disregard it as nonsense and then make up your own list of Mourinho players as if that should be taken seriously it’s ridiculous honestly. Truth is it’s truly debatable the influence first team managers have on nurturing players and developing them cause you can argue it’s natural progression. Do we give them credit just for playing them? But what if their talent is so blatantly obvious? In this regard though not in the slightest a Wenger supporter but Mourinho literally if he can’t buy it he won’t play it is generally his attitude. Definitely not one for developing kids. You can argue but he gave someone like Loftus Cheek his debut he’s a champion for the kids. I’d say bollox he then refused to play the kid or anybody else when it mattered

  34. alexanderhenry

    Henry was a promising but erratic winger who was struggling in Italy.

    Wenger converted him into a striker and he became arsenal’s most prolific goal scorer ever. That ticks the ‘development’ box for me.

    Lungberg played for Halmstads , a swedish side and although he did well there he only cost £3 million. Surely you’ve got to give wenger a ‘development’ credit for freddy.

    Pires, was an established up and coming french player so ok, he was more of a finished article, but he wasn’t a big star particularly. No one had heard of him when he came to arsenal. What a player though.

  35. STV

    Good to see Wenger has taken those 20 percents in Fabregas Van Persie Bellrin and arguably Artrta.

    5 in 20 years great record. Like his pl titles.

  36. Marko

    RedtruthMay 30, 2016    19:25:23
    Wenger relies on players to play to form rather than setting up a team to perform..

    Honestly you’re a div.

  37. Redtruth

    Ljungberg was a Swedish International and his Man of the Match performance against England convinced Wenger to buy him..

    Henry was a World Cup Winner and only joined Arsenal on the condition he could play as Centre Forward….

  38. alexanderhenry

    Paulinho

    ‘Owen Coyle developed Wilshere more in one season than Wenger has in five years.’

    That’s not the point with wilshire. I like him and hope he stays, but injuries are the issue with him. If he can get a proper injury free run in he side I still think he can be an excellent player for us.

  39. Paulinho

    “That’s not the point with wilshire. I like him and hope he stays, but injuries are the issue with him.”

    Before he went to Bolton Wenger was pissing about playing him on the right wing and Wilshere was not progressing at all. Coyle was the one who had the courage and foresight to play him in central midfield. Only then did Wenger realise he could play there.

    Of course Wenger didn’t take long to ruin a good thing.

  40. Phd007

    alexanderhenryMay 30, 2016 19:28:06
    Henry was a promising but erratic winger who was struggling in Italy.Wenger converted him into a striker and he became arsenal’s most prolific goal scorer ever. That ticks the ‘development’ box for me.

    Lungberg played for Halmstads , a swedish side and although he did well there he only cost £3 million. Surely you’ve got to give wenger a ‘development’ credit for freddy.

    Pires, was an established up and coming french player so ok, he was more of a finished article, but he wasn’t a big star particularly. No one had heard of him when he came to arsenal. What a player though.

    ————————————
    For every player that you have listed above,how do you explain the development of those below:-

    Sanogo
    Gervinho
    Santos
    Stepanovs
    Senderos
    Jeffers
    Park Chu Young
    Inanmoto
    Richard Wright
    Aliadere
    Christopher Wreh
    Tavlaridis
    Cygan
    Bentley
    Pennant
    Rami Shaaban
    Jerome Thomas
    Owusu
    Djourou
    Alumnia
    Lupoli
    Kerrea Gilbert
    Diaby
    Denilson
    Traore
    Lansbury
    Hoyte
    Bischoff
    Chamakh
    Squillaci
    JET
    Miquel
    Kallstrom
    Volz
    Barrett
    Frimpong
    Jenkinson
    Malz
    Diawara
    Selley
    Hartson

    & there’s more.. 🙂

  41. STV

    Marko, WTF!! I didn’t argue Mourinho is good at developing kids. But If you can’t see he devolped some top players then you can say he’s a bullox manager. Much like the bullox you just posted.

    Wenger was good at what he’s doing but why people always come up with Henry and Anelka stories? It’s 2016 ffs.

  42. WengerEagle

    CA

    Lol, not quite.

    Most of my mates are Manc supporters (for my sins) and they reckon Mourinho would be tempted in cashing in on Martial, he’s quality but if Mourinho could sell him for a fortune and sign someone like Griezmann, he probably would.

    Mata is also a dead man walking the poor sod.

  43. Pierre

    Wengers main fault , in my opinion, is staying too loyal to players who are obviously not good enough. I am talking about players like grimandi, stepanovs, cygan, denilson , bentner, eboue, schillachi, chamack, almunia etc. And now he is doing the same with Ramsey , Gibbs , Giroud

    These type of players have held the club back over the years. It’s like Wenger can’t bring himself to admit that his judgement of these players was wrong…. We will always struggle to be an elite club if he persists with players like Ramsey. He had a good 3 months a couple of years ago, since then , nothing….Wenger always seems to find a place for Ramsey and giroud .

    When we beat Leicester 5-2, Man U 3-0and Bayern 2-0 playing superb football with lightning speed on the break with Walcott up front I really thought we had seen the end of giroud but no , Walcott got injured and he never got his place back up top….. Walcott has his critics and rightly so but I don’t understand why he was never given a real chance after his injury…… Also , think back to 4-0 f a cup win v villa …. Walcott played up front… There is more space, movement and speed in the side with a pacey striker, we improved when welbeck returned. It suits ozil , carzorla and Sanchez and gives them more options….. As I said , it’s wengers judgement that is questionable and I can’t see anything changing whilst he picks Ramsey and giroud……

  44. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    So what, lungberg was a swedish international. Carlton palmer was an england international.

    Henry was going nowhere in Italy. Do you not give wenger any credit at all for his subsequent achievements?

  45. Paulinho

    “If he can get a proper injury free run in he side I still think he can be an excellent player for us.”

    Agree by the way, but he’s the sort of talent comes through regardless. Still don’t think Wenger is the right manager for him though. Encourages his tendency to over elaborate and dither.

  46. Paulinho

    “Wengers main fault , in my opinion, is staying too loyal to players who are obviously not good enough.”

    Too loyal or simply not as good a judge of a player as people think he is?

    Everything is delayed with Wenger ; from not selling a player soon enough or not dropping players when they should be dropped. It becomes loyalty(read stubborness) once Wenger realises everyone has wised to a player’s deficiencies before he has. Hence the Denilson is ‘world class’ comments when the vast majority knew he was shit by that point.

  47. alexanderhenry

    Phd0007

    A lot of those are a load of squad players . The rest are nearly all cheap buys. They nearly all cost peanuts and a lot of them came through the youth system.

    If I could be bothered. I could trawl through the squad lists of any of the big clubs and provide a similar list of young players who didn’t make it and cheaper squad filler buys who didn’t feature.

    I can’t be bothered though.

    Suggesting that because Rami Shaaban and Jerome Thomas didn’t become the next ronaldo and messi is some kind of failure on wenger’s part, is a bit silly really.

  48. Marko

    But If you can’t see he devolped some top players.

    STV my point is someone could say the same about Wenger and you can argue against the both of them. It’s all fubar imo being critical of Wenger for not developing players but then say well Mourinho’s developed this this and this player. Just no. One’s what have you done lately whereas the other is what have you done ever in this regard. You know. Anyway sign up Koulibaly, Mkhitaryan and Batshauayi and let’s lick some arse next season

  49. Redtruth

    In a nutshell Wenger is not a Coach

    Wenger doesn’t develop players,
    Wenger can not alter the game during live play,
    Wenger has no Plan B
    Wenger never studies the opposition,
    Wenger relies on his players to play to form rather than setting up his team to perform,
    Wenger’s substitutions are like clockwork regardless of the state of play,
    Wenger plays players out of position,
    Wenger’s post match interviews always contain the wordscMental Strength and Spirit but not one word mentioned of TACTICS …

  50. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    Of course I wasn’t comparing lungberg to carlton palmer.

    The fact that you failed to grasp my very simple point means that I am now going to compare you to carlton palmer though

    His football brain and your actual brain are in fact very similar. You are the carlton palmer of this forum. Clumsy, unaware with poor decision making skills.

  51. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    ‘In a nutshell Wenger is not a Coach’.

    I think if you look up wenger’s job description you’ll find it says ‘coach’, so you got that wrong.

    Your brain is ‘in a nutshell’.

  52. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    ‘blind fool’…very good that. About as effective as a carlton palmer mistimed tackle.

  53. STV

    Marko yes OK. I put it up because Alexander asked for a list of young players Mourinho devolped. My point was Mourinho did devolop, may not be too young.

    There’s a reason for you to be critical of Wenger. Hes has been in developing young or top talents in last 10-12 years. (Bellerin exception). You can’t always hide behind the fact that he was good at it years ago.

  54. Relieable Sauce

    The last 3 times Wenger has spent big it was on a #10 and GK we didnt need and a wide forward to – hopefully – fill the CF void.

    Problem now is we struggle attract the very best players and can only sign them under certain conditions.
    Bringing in a quality manager would instantly remedy that and we would see the real pulling power Arsenal have with CL football.

  55. HillWood

    Wenger will buy a player and play him out of position or/and “coach” the player to be ineffective

  56. Phd007

    alexanderhenryMay 30, 2016 19:48:31
    A lot of those are a load of squad players . The rest are nearly all cheap buys. They nearly all cost peanuts and a lot of them came through the youth system.

    Suggesting that because Rami Shaaban and Jerome Thomas didn’t become the next ronaldo and messi is some kind of failure on wenger’s part, is a bit silly really.
    —————-

    LOL

    Well you do know Rami Shaman was a GK…So don’t know how he will turn into the next Ronaldo/Messi?

    Unless he suddenly had a change of heart mid career& decided he wanted to play up front,instead of ply his trade between the sticks..

    As for squad fillers,or majority of them coming through the youth system,or cheap fillers..

    The whole point is Arsene is not really a major developer of talent..
    Not to the extent it’s being bandied about on here..& he’s presided over this crap shoot for 21 years..

    But let’s make it easier..The one’s that were in the first team on a regular basis,didn’t exactly set the EPL on fire under Arsene..

    Jenkinson
    Sanogo
    Santos(RVP shirt swapper at half time)
    Kallstrom
    Senderos(regular-Drogba’s bitch)
    Jeffers(fox in the box)
    Richard Wright(bought to eventually displace Seaman)
    Alumnia(resident No 1 GK)
    Djourou(resident Arsenal TV spokesman)
    Diaby(when fit)
    Bentley
    Pennant(when not crashing cars)
    Chamakh(who we waited 2 seasons for to get on a free transfer)
    Denilson(featured quite regularly,before begging to leave)
    Traore(understudy to Clichy)
    Frimpong(featured quite regularly)

    There’s 16 names there and I’m being generous..

    Whether he’s bought/developed talent..
    The main constant is he’s chosen this route for over 20 years..

    If he felt constrained,surely you don’t stick at a club for 20 years,if you are unhappy with the regime..

    You have a choice…

    1)Either you leave.

    2)Or you are in full agreement/complicit with the budgetary constraints,you enthusiastically talk about..

    You can’t have it both ways..
    Certainly not for 20 years…It doesn’t make sense..

    Unless you are saying Arsene is having his cake and eating at the same time..

    Bemoaning the budgetary constraints imposed by the regime for 20 odd years,but happy to accept £8.5 million for playing along and keeping his mouth shout?

  57. alexanderhenry

    Alright, insults aside I’ll make this point and leave you all to it.

    The point is this.
    Managing a top club no longer includes developing talent. It has been this way for years. The top clubs simply buy up all the best players and work from there.

    Chelsea, man city and man utd have been operating like this for years.
    Arsenal have not. Instead and rather foolishly, they have tried to ‘make stars not buy them’. This has failed.

    What is important to understand is that this policy was introduced by the owner, not wenger. Only a club’s owner decides overall financial policy and working under the financial restrictions wenger had to, I don’t think mourihno, fergie or guardiola would have done any better.

    The main issue at arsenal therefore is not wenger, but the owner. Unless Kroenke and co. change their miserly way of running arsenal the club will not succeed, whoever is in charge.

  58. alexanderhenry

    Phd0007

    Got me again. Well done- if a bit nit picky- the fact that I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of arsenal’s reserve goalkeepers over the years doesn’t make me ignorant.

    Anyway,

    The point about your list is this. It’s cheap. Nearly all of it. You can’t win the league with youth and cheap buys, especially if your rivals are spending hundreds of millions.
    As far as wenger is concerned. He hasn’t ‘bemoaned’ anything. He’s never complained about lack of money. He may have stated it as a fact but that’s fair enough. He had a choice:

    1) Stick with arsenal on a shoestring budget

    2) Go to real madrid or bayern munich with pots of money in a comparatively uncompetitive league.

    He choose to stick with us on two conditions: Firstly , they give him a hefty pay rise- fair enough. Secondly, he runs the team with no interference.

    The thing he most certainly did not choose, was not to spend. No manager gets to choose that. Only the owner and/or shareholders decide.

    The reality is this. If you look at our nett spend during the austerity period, it’s pretty miraculous we managed to stay top four at all. If he’d left I think arsenal would have been worse off. A lot worse off.

    If, after wenger leaves, the club continues it’s miserly ways we will go absolutely nowhere- except mid table perhaps.

  59. Phd007

    segMay 30, 2016 20:36:56
    @phd007 Bendtner should be on the list, no?
    ——————–
    I excluded him on purpose..
    As I had him lined up in my next list..
    Hence when I said in one of my posts-19.37 (last line) “There’s more”.. 🙂

  60. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    ‘inept’ is he? Two doubles, an unbeaten season, six FA cups- a record, makes wenger arsenal’s most successful ever manager.

    So, George graham and Herbert Chapman must be even worse than inept by your bizarre logic.

  61. HillWood

    Alexander- you may/may not be right about Stan. But Wenger is not like other managers. Winning is not that important. It’s all about doing it his way regardless . He refuses to rectify the glaring faults in the team

  62. Redtruth

    alex

    You are full of shit.
    Wenger was tight with spending during his early years with Arsenal which consigns your assertions to the skip

  63. Bamford10

    AlexanderHenry

    “Maybe we should put the ‘developing’ talent issue gently to one side. Being adept at developing players from scratch to become world class is not something top managers at top clubs have to be good at doing anymore. In fact they have very little to do with it.”

    One thing that makes putting this to side quite easy is that no one was really talking about the above, i.e., developing players from “scratch” to “top class”. The point is that many PROMISING players do not improve, develop under Wenger. I cited Ramsey, Walcott and Ox as examples. Indeed one can look at these once-promising players and say not only have they not improved, in many cases they have developed terrible habits which go long uncorrected.

    You also continue to misunderstand and misrepresent the spending situation. Wenger has had some £30m a year to spend on signings since 2007 and far more than that since 2011. As Wenger himself said, Kroenke has never interfered with Wenger’s spending.

    It is Wenger — with his fixations on frugality, loyalty, “old world ways” and proving the world wrong — who has held Arsenal back.

    This because he hasn’t spent properly, hasn’t developed players properly, hasn’t instilled the right mentality at the club, and hasn’t implemented a proper tactical set-up or system.

    Aside from finishing top four every year, Wenger has failed on every front, top to bottom.

  64. Phd007

    alexanderhenryMay 30, 2016 20:41:41
    Got me again. Well done- if a bit nit picky- the fact that I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of arsenal’s reserve goalkeepers over the years doesn’t make me ignorant.
    ———————————
    Well if you followed Arsenal,he was signed as a replacement for Seaman.
    Played in a few CL games in 2002& some EPL games,before breaking his leg.
    Don’t think you need an encyclopaedia knowledge to recall this..

    Either way,are you apportioning blame solely at the door of Kroenke?

    Or at the BoD as a collective?

    Lastly,it appears you probably started watching Arsenal under Arsene-is this correct?

    Or before Arsene?

  65. alexanderhenry

    Hillwood

    ‘Alexander- you may/may not be right about Stan. But Wenger is not like other managers. Winning is not that important. It’s all about doing it his way regardless . He refuses to rectify the glaring faults in the team.’

    I am right about Kroenke. You say ‘winning is not that important’ to wenger. I disagree but it’s certainly not important to our tight fisted owner.

    Read this:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/stan-kroenke-i-didnt-buy-arsenal-stake-to-win-trophies-a3202046.html

    On the ‘glaring faults’, you need to spend serious money to rectify them.

  66. Ishola70

    alexanderhenry:

    “Arsenal have not. Instead and rather foolishly, they have tried to ‘make stars not buy them’. This has failed. What is important to understand is that this policy was introduced by the owner, not wenger. Only a club’s owner decides overall financial policy and working under the financial restrictions wenger had to, I don’t think mourihno, fergie or guardiola would have done any better.The main issue at arsenal therefore is not wenger, but the owner. Unless Kroenke and co. change their miserly way of running arsenal the club will not succeed, whoever is in charge.”

    You don’t stop do you with your misleading views and comments.

    The term “We make stars don’t buy them” was coined by Arsenal before even Kroenke arrived at the club. It was done to appease and placate the fans in some way when it first became apparent that Chelsea with their Russian owner would have far greater activity in the top end transfer market than Arsenal. I repeat it this was done before Kroenke even arrived.

    You may be frustrated about the situation AlexanderHenry but that shouldn’t mean you can’t see the reality and truth of the matter. The truth of the matter is Kroenke was not brought on board as a big financial investor in the team. If you wanted an owner like that then you should have been disappointed when Usmanov was shunned by the club and may I add by the majority of Arsenal supporters at the time. Why the majority of fans shunned Usmanov was because of the anti-big spending feeling at the time among fans no doubt a bit envious of Chelsea’s spending power and this was helped along by Arsenal PLC propaganda with Wenger leading the tune when Arsenal could not compete for big transfers in the market.

    Arsenal PLC have already stated hundreds of times primarily through Gazidis that their philosophy and desire is to spend money on transfers that they themselves generate within the club and not money from outside.

    I think Gzidis is a useless owner myself but please stop misleading people with lies. The ship sailed in relation to big investment in transfer money for transfers when Usmanov was told to fvck off. And who was against his appointment at the time? Your man Wenger.

    What we do know is that Kroenke has walked into this situation and not created it. He must be laughing his head off at his fortune. What we are unsure of is whether this was a Wenger creation. Sure smells like Wenger to me. But it is certainly not Kroenke’s doing. Period.

  67. alexanderhenry

    Phd0007

    You got me on the reserve GK. I already admitted that. i would suggest that 90% wouldn’t know much about him though.

    The BOD are a bunch of yes men. Between them they own little or no shares in the club. Therefore they are ceremonial for the most part.
    I hardly think sir chips keswick and lord harris of peckham have much real say in the running of the club. Josh son of stan kroenke isn’t going to be much of an independent voice and gazidis is a PR man. Essentially the voice of kroenke.

    I’ve been following arsenal since 1980. It was a journey that began in tears- literally. I was 9 when Graham Rix missed the penalty against Valencia in the cup winners cup final.

  68. Samesong

    If you have the money and you find the one player who can make you win and make the difference, no matter how expensive he is, you should do it. But there are not many players in the world who will make a real difference. Arsene Wenger

  69. Phd007

    alexanderhenryMay 30, 2016 21:09:27
    Phd0007
    You got me on the reserve GK. I already admitted that. i would suggest that 90% wouldn’t know much about him though.The BOD are a bunch of yes men. Between them they own little or no shares in the club. Therefore they are ceremonial for the most part.
    I hardly think sir chips keswick and lord harris of peckham have much real say in the running of the club. Josh son of stan kroenke isn’t going to be much of an independent voice and gazidis is a PR man. Essentially the voice of kroenke.
    ———————–

    So your angst is at the BoD?
    Not necessarily at Kroenke?

    Correct?

  70. Ishola70

    Redtruth:
    “alexhenry’s argument died at least 6 years ago which shows how demented Wenger’s followers are…”

    This is exactly it but he just doesn’t want to see it.

    I don’t know whether it is excuse making for Wenger or he is just overall frustrated at the whole situation.

  71. alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    ‘Arsenal PLC have already stated hundreds of times primarily through Gazidis that their philosophy and desire is to spend money on transfers that they themselves generate within the club and not money from outside.’

    We have well over £200 million in the bank- more available cash than any other PL club. . Last summer we spent £9 million. Do you really think it was because wenger chose not to spend on principle?

    ‘I think Gzidis is a useless owner’

    Gazidis is not the owner, he is the CEO. Arsenal do not have an outright owner. Kroenke owns 67% of the club which gives him overall control. So, he is effectively the owner.

    ‘Kroenke has walked into this situation and not created it. He must be laughing his head off at his fortune. ‘

    Kreonek has created it by witholding funds. The austerity period was his idea and totally unnecessary. And yes I agree..he is laughing his head off.

  72. Redtruth

    Kroenke is like manna from heaven for Wenger.

    Minimal fuss over winning trophies and a great deflection from Wenger’s own personal failings …

  73. HillWood

    Alexander-does Stan forbid the players from shooting at the goal. Did Stan insist on pathetic zonal defending at corners. Was it Stans idea to treat the group stage of C/L as a bit of an experiment ?

  74. Ishola70

    I already corrected the Gazidis quote in another post.

    Now answer me this.

    Was the term “we make stars don’t buy them” coined by Arsenal before or after Kroenke’s arrival?

    You know the answer.

    Stop lying.

  75. Ishola70

    AlexanderHenry were you for Usmanov or against him when it looked like he could have a big say in serious investment in transfer money?

    Your man Wenger was against him.

    Were you?

    If you were stop crying over spilt milk.

  76. STV

    “Kroenke is like manna from heaven for Wenger.

    Minimal fuss over winning trophies and a great deflection from Wenger’s own personal failings …”

    Spot on Redtruth. Everybody happy, why complain AKB’s??

  77. Ishola70

    I don’t know why this discussion was started anyway.

    It’s just excuse making for Wenger.

    Arsenal have just spent over 30m on a defensive midfielder unthinkable just a few years back.

  78. alexanderhenry

    Bamford

    Nice to see you’re not trying to get me banned.

    Anyway,

    My point on developing players was this. Top clubs- arsenal aspire to be one I think we all agree on that- don’t develop players anymore. Now and again someone emerges from their youth academies. 90% of time they’re chucked out on loan anyway, meaning that the development is undertaken by smaller clubs.
    Most don’t make it back.

    Arsenal’s ‘make not buy ‘ stars policy has failed, not because of wenger but because the whole idea is flawed. It just doesn’t work in the modern game. Mourihno, guardiola and ancelotti don’t develop players. They buy the ready made package.

    To quote you:

    ‘Wenger has had some £30m a year to spend on signings since 2007 and far more than that since 2011. As Wenger himself said, Kroenke has never interfered with Wenger’s spending.’

    That simply isn’t true. The club were cagey about it at the time- they actually mislead fans at the time-, but Gazidis and wenger have since since admitted that there was an austerity period after the stadium move when the club had to post profits in transfers for at least five years- unheard of in football- and that their target was to qualify for the CL three out of those five years. That was it.

    Since then there has been some spending but simply not enough. We bought ozil and sanchez and a few others but that doesn’t make up for years of financial neglect and certainly won’t put us on par with the big boys. The idea that wenger deliberately chose not to spend money offered to him on principle, is preposterous is my opinion. It just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

    Look at it this way.

    If you are Kroenke and every year you offer your manager £30 million every year only for the manager to turn it down and then fail, you would sack that manager.

    If, on the other hand, you offer your manager nothing, enabling the club to be more profitable due to the lack of spending, and your manager still gets into the CL with all the extra revenue that generates, win the odd FA cup and ensure a full house at the emirates you give him a raise (if you’re Kroenke).

    As far as kroenke ‘interfering’ is concerned, read between the lines. What wenger means is that he never interferes with the amount that wenger is given. If it’s not very much or not enough to strengthen properly then kroenke’s non interference isn’t the issue.

    As I’ve said too many times before, let’s see what happens post wenger. My guess is, not much.

  79. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    ‘Kroenke is like manna from heaven for Wenger.Minimal fuss over winning trophies and a great deflection from Wenger’s own personal failings …’

    According to your logic, Kroenke is ultimately at fault for not firing wenger. Therefore he is in fact the main problem at arsenal.

    Therefore, you agree with me.

  80. STV

    3 or 4 youth players developed over 20 years with a success rate under 5%. 2 of them from Barcelona academy !! Wenger the great nurturer of talent is a myth. He’s a great believer in that yes. He’d give you shitload of opouurtunity at the expense of team and success. That’s is it all about.

    ‘We don’t buy superstars we make them’ bullocks.

  81. alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    I would love Usmanov to take over arsenal.

    As far as wenger’s opinion on him is concerned, I don’t know what he thinks but it’s not his job to have an opinion on usmanov is it?
    Wenger’s job is to manage the team and work under whoever owns the club.

    Usmanov certainly likes wenger though. He said this recently:

    It is very important for the football club to maintain the principles that were established by those people who created its victories. Arsenal need Arsene Wenger.”

    http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10218119/arsenal-must-keep-main-asset-arsene-wenger-says-alisher-usmanov

  82. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    Whichever way you look at it. It comes down to kroenke.
    He’s been involved since 2007 and in control since 2011. How have we fared since then?
    Compare how wenger did before kroenke with how he’s done since.

  83. Ishola70

    alexanderhenry:
    “would love Usmanov to take over arsenal.”

    But were you at the time before Usmanov was blocked out all those years back?

    Were you in the minority at that time that wanted Usmanov to take over?

    Because the majority of fans vilified him. And why did they vilify him AlexanderHenry? It wouldn’t be Wenger and his Arsenal PLC machine brainwashing again would it? Fans didn’t want to be like Chelsea at the time. They wanted to take a different road with their master Wenger.

    Jubba The Hut was the most common insult Arsenal fans were firing at Usmanov back then lol. Dirty Russian oil money they were saying.

    No good painting Wenger as hands off AlexanderHenry in club matters other than just the football side. He is very hands on.

    More than a football manager AlexanderHenry. That’s what’s been said about Wenger for years. More than a football manager and how how the Wenger aficionados loved him for that. The thinking man’s football manager.

  84. Redtruth

    INDEPENDANT Monday 24 September 2007

    When Arsène Wenger had dinner with the Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood and Danny Fiszman – the club’s main money-man and key shareholder respectively – last June, there was only one item on the agenda: persuading the manager to extend his contract beyond 2008.

    As part of the negotiations, Fiszman asked Wenger what would he do if he were handed, say, £100m to spend on transfers. It sounded like a promise, perhaps a carrot to dangle before him of the riches that could be delivered in return for committing himself further.

    Hill-Wood yesterday relayed what happened next. “Danny said, ‘What would you do if we gave you £100m to spend, Arsène?'” the chairman recalled. “He said, ‘I’d give it back to you.’ He has an economics degree from Strasbourg University and is lucky enough to understand the figures probably better than the board. And he doesn’t want the club to go bankrupt.”

  85. alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    I liked the club the way it was before with no shareholder having a controlling stake.
    The club has completely changed since then. Before, it was committed to winning. Now, it’s committed to profit.
    On Usmanov, there is no evidence that if he was in charge he would be a ‘sugar daddy’ owner. However, rest assured he would at least allow the manager to spend money that is actually in the club- £200 million at the moment.

    As far as kreonke is concerned, have a look and see how his other teams do, and read up on what other fans think of him. It doesn’t bode well.

  86. alexanderhenry

    Hillwood

    You resigned a few years ago thank god. Strangely, you initially described kroenke as ‘not the sort we want at arsenal’. You were right about that.

  87. Redtruth

    Wenger’s has a lot to answer for on players profligate wages he sanctioned during the supposed lean years…

    Whichever way you look at it the money has.always been available it’s just Wenger chose to squander it on wages rather than transfers…

  88. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    Often misquoted and unsurprisingly misunderstood by you, wenger realised that if at that time arsenal went out and spent £100 million it would have been unwise.

    Why doesn’t kroenke fire him? Why has kroenke allowed him not to spend year after year?

  89. alexanderhenry

    Redruth

    If as you say, arsenal’s most successful manager is in fact ‘inept’, and if he has for years been refusing to spend hundreds of million offered to him, why hasn’t he been sacked?

    Come on redruth answer the question.

  90. Ishola70

    alexanderhenry:
    “As far as kreonke is concerned, have a look and see how his other teams do, and read up on what other fans think of him. It doesn’t bode well.”

    Yeah moneyball Kroenke and moneyball Wenger. As others have said a match made in heaven.

    Let’s not forget either that Wenger was championed in his first period at the club for buying gems at cheap prices. Fans loved him for it and Wenger quite rightly at the time was very proud of his value for money transfers. This feeling has never left him. The only difference now is the market changed and Wenger can’t win big trophies any more.