Is Iwobi the new Jeff? Line-up looks like a 4-4-2, CLASSIC stuff

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Screen Shot 2015-04-05 at 10.51.23

Good morning my darlings.

I didn’t write a match preview early. So I’m dropping one right now.

The lineup looks pretty damn rested.

Cech

Bellerin Gabriel Mertesacker Gibbs

Campbell Ox Chambers  Iwobi

Theo Giroud

I mean, that’s how I’m seeing it?

We have to be playing a 4-4-2. Which I like. Pretty sexy to be doing something different.

We’re bringing in some players who have the chance to prove they have what it takes. Iwobi will be interesting, I like having Campbell in there for work ethic and post kicking and I’m really interested to see what Ox will do in the middle with Chambers.

Could be a farce, but I don’t think it will be. This is important. Can we win 3 FA Cups on the bounce? Would be pretty major if we could.

Sunderland have a pretty weak team on show. That shouldn’t be cause for celebration. I mean, any team they put out would struggle to be as bad as their first team. So it could be a testy game. They’ll have players who want to stand up and be counted. So this game really is up in the air.

Only worry we have is that our bench has very little on it… Ramsey and Monreal are about as exciting as it gets. Arteta is there and you just know he’ll be the first sub on if we’re chasing the game, because that’s Wenger’s thing… total denial about the decline of his fave Spaniard. There’s also Jeff… we all want to see him because we all think he’s the black Messi in waiting.

I think we might be disappointed…

Anyway, enjoy the game, see you in the comments!

590 Responses to “Is Iwobi the new Jeff? Line-up looks like a 4-4-2, CLASSIC stuff”

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  1. Wallace

    Cesc Appeal

    “I agree that it may be rare, but I’d rather have a stab at a youngster on £10 000 a week from that league, than giving £100 000 plus to Wilshere who will play 25% of a season and contribute nothing, or 1 goal 1 assist in 12 months Oxlade on £60 000 a week.”

    Carl Jenkinson’s a 1m buy from the Championship who has become a solid Premier League player. would you rather have the midfield version of Jenkinson than Wilshere in your squad?

  2. Marc

    alexanderhenry

    Kroenke cannot borrow against Arsenal assets, he can borrow against his shareholding.

    Arsenal assets belong to Arsenal not Kroenke, too many people confuse someone owning a majority share in a business and the business. Arsenal are an independent entity.

    If I owned £1000 of Tesco shares could I go in and walk out with £100 worth of shopping without paying? You’re effectively saying the same thing.

  3. Wallace

    the average salary for a premier league player is 44k per week.

    all of our English players are full internationals.

  4. Marc

    Vicky

    It wasn’t Wenger being soft that got Walcott his contract. You’re right about him holding the club to ransom but it was a commercial decision, we’d just lost Cesc and Nasri losing another senior player would have been far more damaging than giving someone as couple of million quid a year over their worth.

  5. tunnygriffboy

    Qna

    Wilshere has played a lot of his football in midfield one of his strengths as a player is recieving the ball under pressure, turning quickly a driving through the opposition. Along with Santi he’s probably one of our better players of counter acting opponents press. Last season when he returned from injury he’d got that 5 yard burst back as well.

  6. Dissenter

    Wenger is going to make a calculated gamble that the returning players will come back (and not have setbacks but also be up-and-running from the get go.
    It’s classical Wengerism; alloy of undying loyalty for his own, idealism on doing it his own way and penny-pinching frugality.

    I find myself conflicted because I understand that he has to give the returning players opportunities to get games to make their national team squads for the Euros.
    I also think it’s easier for returning crocked players to regain their rhythm than for newly signed players to adapt to England.
    The gamble is that these players can breakdown again which will burn out the current squad by March.

  7. Relieable Sauce

    Dissenter

    Not that kid, did you see the size of his arse?

    Not as funny as Lawro calling Peinar, penis though.

  8. vicky

    Cesc

    Mate, Javi Martinez is a good example for explaining Jack’s situation. Most people agree Javi was perhaps only behind Busquest if we talk about great defensive midfield talents. Bayern paid close to £ 40M to sign him. He rarely plays for them now for he has become a sort of perma crock yet Bayern haven’t offloaded him. Sometimes clubs do take a gamble on good talents even if it defies economic sense. I find it as much exasperating as you do when Jack contributes very little and always gets injured but he is a great talent. He is also an Arsenal academy player. It’s not easy to offload him.

  9. Sam

    Last time we were Top of the League. We had a Sh!t defense n a complete immature keeper. Signing Gabriel n Cech and emergence of Bellerin gave up stronger Back 5 than we had in 2013. Plus we have better back up team now to help cope with Injuries without falling apart.we were not able to beat top team now we do
    We also have extras: Ozil n Sanchez

  10. qna

    alexanderhenry: Mr Kroenke is a businessman first and foremost. He is not an arsenal fan or even a football fan

    Doesnt look like he is an NFL fan either. What a cunt. In that link he says that the city his team plays in is not a city that should have an NFL team. Shows the class of the guy and what Arsenal have got themselves into.

    Marc: Kroenke cannot borrow against Arsenal assets, he can borrow against his shareholding.

    What about using his valuation of Arsenal in stating his assets to the bank. If he is using his ownership of Arsenal as collateral then it will have an impact. Because the bank will regularly re-value Arsenal throughout the duration of his NFL loan. So he will need to make sure that Arsenal’s value does not drop. This may make him even more likely to keep his cash reserves as high as possible. This may even be the reason that Arsenal has built up such an unreasonable, unfathomable bank balance.

  11. Nasri's Mouth

    There isn’t too much wrong with the salaries we pay if it wasn’t for the injuries that some of them suffer.

  12. Sam

    To say we won’t win the league if we don’t buy so n so it’s just emotional blackmail.
    What we need is a cover for Welbeck but Iwobi looks like the right Candidate if we don’t buy anyone

  13. Bamford10

    Sam

    Yes, our back five are definitely stronger. That is the principal difference b/t this Arsenal and all of the recent formulations: defensive solidity.

    However, behind Coquelin we have only Flamini and Arteta, neither of whom inspire much confidence. Flamini has had a decent game here or there, but there is reason to doubt his quality overall. If Elneny can play the CDM role, and I think he can, this will help. It may even settle this issue, in a sense, until next summer, but that remains to be seen.

    Further, while our attacking stats look fairly good, many here do not believe in either Giroud or Walcott as CFs. Giroud has hold-up play and some finishing but no pace, while Theo has pace but little else. In time, our weakness at CF could be a hindrance.

    I personally don’t rate this Arsenal team very highly — aside from its defensive solidity — but they may just be solid enough to win the title. I still see City as the favorites, though.

  14. Johnty79

    Wengers going to do it again…debauchy puts pressure on bellerin. Over the last 6 months de bauchi should of played more in the home bankers against the lessor things expect the following to happen to bellerin now.

    1. He has been over played and will get injured before end of year.
    2. His performance will drop as no one is applying pressure.
    3. He’ll be off to Madrid or barca in summer.

    Wenger cannot take having competition in a squad. The only season we had cover in most positions was 2000 – 2002. Three seasons out of 19.

  15. Dissenter

    Arsenal makes Kroenke more credit worthy.

    I bet US banks will be queuing up to loan him money with an NFL franchise and the biggest football club in London with a cash reserves of $350,000,000.

    Arsenal makes Kroenke look like a genius.

    Besides he’s allowed to use his Arsenal holdings if he’s borrowing from a hedge fund and transfer the debt to Arsenal. That’s what the Glazer did at United. They borrowed from hedge funds to fund the take over then transferred the debt to United.

  16. Bamford10

    Iwobi looked excellent yesterday, imo, especially for a 19-year-old. The play in the first half where he had the ball at the top of the 18, beat 2-3 defenders and crossed? Very classy. Also, his receipt, turn and pass on the second (?) goal was also quite smooth.

  17. Dissenter

    Nasri’s mouth,
    “There isn’t too much wrong with the salaries we pay if it wasn’t for the injuries that some of them suffer”

    Duh ????? (head-scratching befuddlement)

    There’s a lot wrong with giving players who have repeatedly shown themselves to be more prone to have injuries lavish contracts.

    I can see you repeating the same thing in 2017 when Jack Wilshere is having his latest surgery two months after he’s signed his 120k weekly deal.

  18. Bamford10

    Walcott’s salary is the one, for me, that is most problematic. He is not a top-class player, and he should not be paid as one. In fact, he should have been sold for a tidy sum and we should’ve done something useful with that money.

    Douglas Costa cost Bayern £23m. Anyone think we could’ve gotten something near £23m for Theo? If so, we should’ve sold him and signed a proper wide player, like a Costa (or a proper CF).

  19. Bamford10

    Marble

    Nothing to figure out. He isn’t the player he once was. Injuries and aging have taken their toll. He is only a “French international” at moment because of the player HE USED TO BE and because France apparently don’t have that many options at RB, though I imagine he’ll be edged out of the side soon.

    I’m not even going to get into the Coquelin thing, as it upsets too many people.

    Cheers.

  20. Dissenter

    I disagree with Johnty.
    Obviously it easy to say that Wenger ought to have given Dubuchy more game time to redeem himself and push Bellerin.
    Its not Wenger-like though. He’s loyal to a fault and something must have gone very wrong on the training pitch for him to freeze out Dubuchy.
    It’s more likely that Dubuchy’s professionalism sucked.

  21. Leedsgunner

    “Wilshere [unlikely to play in starting lineup this season] – I dont get the wilshere project now. Are we waiting for Ozil to retire or leave us. Wilshere isnt good enough to play Ozil’s role by the way. But that is the only position he seems to want to play. Can he play central MF?”

    Nice summation QNA. 🙂

    The very sad irony is if Wilshere was fit enough and mentally able, he should be learning right now from Ōzil on how to become the finest no.10 of his generation. Wilshere has the raw physical attributes to be as good as Özil but he’s so injury prone he’s forever on the recovery trail.

    Mentally Jack needs to see how selfless Özil is… Wilshere’s supreme dribbling ability is also his great weakness — and he often carries the ball when it would be better to pass it to a teammate in a better position. In this Özil’s vision is HIS greatest asset… and something Jack could learn from.

    Could Jack be as good as Özil?

    No one knows… but Jack needs to stop believing in his own hype and start putting in the work in and learn from the best. If he genuinely wants to learn there’s still hope for him but if he mistakenly thinks he’s already the finished product — he will just become another decent footballer and NOT the standout player of his generation.

  22. Bamford10

    Marko

    Yes, it was the first goal I was thinking of. Iwobi receives the ball in midfield, turns and plays to Walcott, who crosses to Campbell. Iwobi’s positioning was excellent and his turn was lovely. Good little player.

  23. freddylekgunner

    Our British core ain’t overpaid according to the market, just check other British players at other teams before moaning here. And Walcott is on 100k not the 140k that is always mentioned here. Henderson of Liverpool is getting the same.

  24. Honest Bill

    Walcott is definitely overpaid. We know that English player’s wages are inflated, but i’m sure that the club also takes in to account the inflated transfer fees which, if a player is already at the club, they don’t need to pay. It’s better to hold on to the English players who are at a reasonable standard.

    If we can sell them off for inflated fees then it could be worth it, but given the injury records of these guys, i doubt many clubs would be willing to take such a big punt on them.

    If we can’t get good fees for them, then we sell them off for fuck all and then find ourselves in the awkward position of having to buy more English players to make the quota. Then we either have to pay stupid fees for the better talents like Barkley, Sterling, Stones etc. or we have to pay middling fees for players who aren’t even better than the players we have now.

  25. Cesc Appeal

    Wallace

    Yes.

    Because he would actually be available week in week out. I don’t understand what is hard to understand in that, you can have all the talent in the world, if you are available for at best 50% of a season, you’re not a great option at all.

  26. Marc

    Dissenter

    The Glazers own ManU outright (or at least did when they transferred the debt onto them) Kroenke does not own Arsenal outright. Usmanov always stated he was going to build his shareholding up to a blocking share, therefore Usmanov could stop Kroenke transferring debt onto the club.

    Kroenke can use his shareholding as collateral to borrow money, if he defaults the bank / hedge fund would take ownership of his shareholding and then look to sell it to the highest bidder. What makes Arsenal more valuble? Well winning stuff, investing in players that sells more merchandise, attracts global fans and then make company’s pay more for sponsorship deals etc. I really think all this Kroenke using Arsenal money to fund other businesses is a red herring.

  27. qna

    What I really liked about Iwobi was the tempo he was trying to play at and the accuracy and pace on his passes. Its apparently not difficult to rack up massive pass stats with high percentage accuracy. But that tells you nothing about the quality and threat of the passes. Iwobi was almost setting the tempo for Arsenal early and it was good. He is of course still raw and not ready yet, but I really hope he can step on. I have seen Gnabry and Oxlaide put on better performances than Iwobi did last night, only to be further away now than they were then. Nice to see Adelaide get a run out too. Same thing with him -high hopes – not sure if Arsenal is the place to develop him to the next level of player.

  28. alexanderhenry

    Marc

    kroenke owns 60% of arsenal. That’s a 60% share in all arsenal’s assets . He has a controlling stake which means he has the final say over all financial matters. The rest of the BOD have almost no shares between them at all and I wonder how much influence they have at all, if any. Usmanov owns 30% of arsenal and has no say whatsoever. He doesn’t even have a seat on the board and is not on speaking terms with kroenke. I’m not sure where you get the idea that arsenal is an ‘independent entity’.
    If kroenke needs to borrow money for the LA Rams project, yes he can use his stake at arsenal as collateral. That doesn’t mean taking money out of the club. It means using arsenal’s value as a guarantee on the loan. A large part of arsenal’s value resides in the vast amount of cash- around £200 million allegedly – the club has in the bank. That’s why it’s staying there.
    Arsenal, traditionally known as the bank of England club, was seen as as a gold plated investment for kroenke . He’s using it as such. That explains why arsenal don’t spend.
    The other theory that seeks to explain arsenal fc’s meanness, is that wenger always had plenty of money to spend but refused to do so on principle. This theory is far fetched and unfounded. Wenger may agree in principle which the idea that football clubs should be run as proper businesses and not play things for billionaires, but that’s not the same as refusing to spend money offered to you as a manager. Also, the money at arsenal has been earned fair and square, not just handed to the club, like at chelsea. Therefore, on principle, there is no issue with wenger of any other manager spending it.
    Either way, as arsenal fans we will find out what kroenke’s true motives are when wenger leaves which I think will be after next season.

  29. alexanderhenry

    Marc

    Last posted was a bit long winded. To sum up:

    Arsenal fc may be being used by Kroenke to seal the LA Rams stadium deal.

  30. Relieable Sauce

    We had to sign or sell Walcott due to his contract, it seems the club maybe didnt handle it in the best way but we dont know what took place over the long drawn out negotiations.
    Some posters didnt think we could get close to £20m for him last summer – maybe, maybe not. Certainly not his true value, so signing him on an inflated contract is not a problem for me IF we are prepared to sell him to get better value/potential.

    Welbeck is a decent squad player when he is fit, not great…strange that he is ok with rotation/competition for places but CMs and LBs are a proud breed that wont suffer the indignity…
    Walcott is a super-sub on superstar wages, if he doesnt show significant improvement with his consistancy and injury record, we should sell while we can still get a decent price.

  31. qna

    Marc: What makes Arsenal more valuble? Well winning stuff, investing in players that sells more merchandise, attracts global fans and then make company’s pay more for sponsorship deals etc. I really think all this Kroenke using Arsenal money to fund other businesses is a red herring.

    Your missing the point. Once he takes the loan with Arsenal as collateral the value of Arsenal is fixed. He doesnt need Arsenal’s value to increase after that. However, he does need it to maintain that value. Otherwise, there will be a margin call on the asset. So, the real question is, how would Stan, having the 100% controlling sure of Arsenal, best make sure that Arsenal’s value did not drop.

    I would suggest, if he has up until now hoarded cash reserves, then it is for a reason that is linked to Arsenal’s book value. And if that was important then, it will continue to be important after. So we may never get access to Arsenal’s massive cash reserves to invest in the squad, as it may be being used in propping up Arsenal’s book value.

  32. Dissenter

    I’m mystified as to where this Serge Gnabry devotion comes from.
    I was never impressed by the kid. He’s always seemed like another youthful project that was fast-tracked too fast. He’s also seemed far too chubby.

    He couldn’t get a game at Bram so please cool off the hype. Let’s see how he does at Brighton, that’s his last bus stop.

  33. freddylekgunner

    Honest bill, am sure Liverpool will be willing to pay over 30m for Walcott. Just saying…. and if he go there and start banging in goals left and right you guys will be the one saying we should have keep him here by paying him whatever he wants. I can remember when he’s about to sign a new deal even Pedro and many were advocating that Arsenal should renew his contract at all cost. Now he’s overpaid. I think Walcott will earn more at any other top club in yhe PL. It’s just the way it is.

  34. qna

    Stans New Stadium in Inglewood, LA: ” the nearly $1.9 billion stadium would take up about three million square feet, making it the largest stadium in the NFL. It calls for 70,240 fixed seats and could accommodate an additional 30,000 people in a standing-room-only capacity for large events. It also includes 274 suites, 16,300 premium seats and 12,675 dedicated surface parking spaces.”

  35. Marc

    alexanderhenry

    Usmanov shareholding gives him a blocking stake to stop other shareholders from damaging the value of his shareholding.

    Why would Wenger put up with being given no money. He goes through all of the pain of the stadium build to finally serious money become available to be told hard luck.

    I think the lack of spending is more down to Wenger than anything else.

  36. tunnygriffboy

    Dissenter

    Bit harsh on Gnabry. Two years ago he had a run of games where he did really well. After that tbf he fell off a cliff. But after those games I think most were hopeful of him progressing. The same hope is there for Iwobi and JRA

  37. Honest Bill

    freddylekgunner

    Well i’m not sure if Liverpool would be willing to pay that much for a player with his injury history, and even if they would, there’s no guarantee he would want to go to them.

    And i doubt Walcott’s performance would suddenly improve greatly because he moved to Liverpool. Why would it?

    Not sure if the other top clubs would be willing to pay that much for him,but even if they would, we will still be left in the situation where we need to replace him, so we have our 30m and our 140k (assuming thate wage figure isn’t made up) then what other English player could we buy for that who is as productive as Walcott?

  38. Nasri's Mouth

    @Dissenter

    “There isn’t too much wrong with the salaries we pay if it wasn’t for the injuries that some of them suffer”

    Dunno how you misunderstood this, but you managed, well done! 🙂

  39. qna

    How much will we make from the Afobe deal? Cant complain if it is £0, but hopefully we put a sell on clause in there.

  40. Honest Bill

    freddylekgunner

    Yes but that’s the point i was making in the first place. You can’t compare the wages of foreign imports because there is no pressure to have them in your club, whereas you have to overpay for Englishmen due to the artificial demand.

  41. Bamford10

    Diego Costa is so much better than Giroud. Can actually run, dribble. Cannot wait till we have a quality CF again. The last 3-4 years have been a waste.

  42. Samesong

    Diego Costa is so much better than Giroud. Can actually run, dribble. Cannot wait till we have a quality CF again. The last 3-4 years have been a waste.

    He maybe but to measure that by his performance against Scunthorpe and not this season in the league is a bit lame.

  43. daz

    Chelsea playing practically their full strength team at home to Scunthorpe then I suppose they need to lift their battered egos and Costa needs to find some form as he wouldn’t have done against a decent defence

  44. Joe

    Theo and Ramsey as a sub are the only ones of the British core I would keep. Gibbs, wellbeck, Jack, Ox should all be sold.

    I appreciate what theo brings to the side. More as a winger than a CF

    Saying that we still need to bring in a top CF and a top winger.

    Theo off the bench. Same as Ramsey. If he doesn’t like it, he can fuck off to barca

  45. qna

    SS: A team like Arsenal should have a top 10 Centre forward in the world as a bare minimum.

    We wont get one in January – thats for sure. In the summer we should go after Dybala. We have to throw a lot of money at Juventus, but there will be a price. He will be a top 10 forward very soon.

    Forget about Benzema, over-rated and already past his prime. Lewendowski? Too much competition. We have not shown this much ambition since we signed Berkamp. He would be perfect, but we dont have the balls or the skill to pull off that signing.

    Dybala is the man. I would pay double what Juve paid for him last summer and see if that interests them.

  46. Bamford10

    Samesong

    I wasn’t making an observation based on his performance here. Just a general observation based on his overall quality. Costa is ALWAYS a much better forward than Giroud. Better in every way, aside from his behavioral issues. This is obvious.

    Daz

    Chelsea players have said they can redeem their season by winning either the FA or the CL, so clearly they’re making a go at this competition. If we played them in the next round, who would most people’s money be on? Chelsea.

    As for the CL, unlike Arsenal, Chelsea have proven they can win this contest even when they are not the best XI in the world. While I don’t think this Chelsea could pull off such a feat for a variety of reasons — not as good across the back four, not as disciplined in general — we all know for a fact that Arsenal cannot. I’d give this Chelsea team a better chance of advancing past Barcelona than I’d give us, though this means only that I’d give them a 5% chance, where I give us a 0% chance.

  47. Cesc Appeal

    Spurs wrapping Kane in cotton wool for today then. They really need a ST signing to provide cover or him, they are going well, but bad injury to Kane and they are a bit stuffed.

    Have a feeling they may get Berahino this window, player clearly wants the move.

  48. Bamford10

    Daz

    Chelsea are only 7 points back of 8th place, which I believe is a Europa spot, yes? And there are 18 league games remaining. Strikes me that if Chelsea finished the year by winning the FA Cup and earning a berth in Europe, Chelsea fans would have much to celebrate. They’ll just chalk up the disastrous first half of the season to one Jose Mourinho.

    Who will have more to celebrate at season’s end — a Chelsea fan if they accomplish the above or the Arsenal fan who will likely see Arsenal lose out to City in the league and knocked out by City or Chelsea in the FA? I’d say the Chelsea fan.

  49. Cesc Appeal

    Worrying, like the summer there has been a steady parade of Arsenal players this week and last saying things along the lines of ‘our squad is good enough,’ ‘we have the mentality to win the league,’ ‘the squad is deep enough,’ ‘we don’t need signings,’ Bellerin is the latest.

    Sounds like the summer when Cech was extolled as the final piece of the puzzle and that cohesion and mentality was the name of the game. Wenger’s back pedalling comments yesterday as well about ‘maybe adding one,’ why is it like extracting teeth every single time?

  50. Phd007

    Bamford

    0% chance?

    A bit harsh-non?

    You wouldn’t even give us a 1% chance of advancing past Barca?

    Stranger things have happened-you know? !!

  51. Samesong

    I wasn’t making an observation based on his performance here. Just a general observation based on his overall quality. Costa is ALWAYS a much better forward than Giroud. Better in every way, aside from his behavioral issues. This is obvious

    I don’t see where the benefit is in saying that though? Me personally Giroud isn’t my type of CF but I say this, this season so far Giroud has outperformed Costa and that’s saying something for CF you say is better than Giroud in overall quality.

  52. Bamford10

    To anyone who likes reggae, Fat Freddy’s Drop has made another nice song in their new “10 Feet Tall”. “Blackbird” off the last album was really good as well.

  53. Cesc Appeal

    If selling Ramsey meant Krychowiak and Rabiot coming in with the money, absolutely, or names to that effect.

    But what is likely is Ramsey is sold for £50 Million, we hear about Wilshere being a new signing and also being blessed with the world class Chambers and Bielik in that area.

    Always have to make special considerations with Arsenal.

  54. daz

    Chelsea are only 7 points back of 8th place, which I believe is a Europa spot, yes? And there are 18 league games remaining. Strikes me that if Chelsea finished the year by winning the FA Cup and earning a berth in Europe, Chelsea fans would have much to celebrate. They’ll just chalk up the disastrous first half of the season to one Jose Mourinho.

    My God, much to celebrate having the worst title defence in the history of the game and winning the cup which you yourself deemed pointless when we won it as it was against hull. Then a season in the Europa league which is a competition every man and his dog wants to avoid, are you feeling alright?

  55. Bamford10

    Samesong

    The benefit? Not sure that’s the relevant question. What I’ve said is true, and watching Costa here has reminded me of its truth. I say it as I’ve said it many times before. If it helps to create a general sentiment that Giroud is not good enough — a general sentiment Le Grove has been instrumental in creating — then I guess that is a benefit, though Wenger will persist with this or that mediocrity, regardless fan opinion.

  56. nasri's mouth

    @Bamford10

    Giroud has been better than Costa this season.

    Honestly you come up with some BS, but trying to defend Costa’s performance this season is one of your best.

    Apart from maybe this…

    Saying Chelsea would have more to celebrate if they finish 8th and win the FA Cup, have you forgotten how little you valued the FA Cup when we won it?

    If we’d finished 8th and only just qualified for the Europa Cup last season you’d be calling it an absolute disaster.

  57. Bamford10

    Daz

    The value of the FA Cup may be an absolute to you, but it has a relative, conditional value in my estimation. Its value depends on who one plays and beats along the way, how one plays along the way (esp. in the final) and who one is. The reason I have never had a high estimation of Arsenal’s two FA Cup wins is because of these three factors: one, we didn’t beat the best teams along the way; we never played all that well (save the Villa final), and we are Arsenal, a club who should also be competing for the league but did not do so the last year or the previous.

    Chelsea fans, on the other hand, would have good reason to set a different value on the FA Cup this year given the year they’ve had, especially if they were to beat us or City en route. And especially if they were to play inspired football en route.

  58. Phd007

    Giroud has been in the Premiership how long? Almost 4 years?

    You would at some point expect, to see some progression. .

    How long has Costa been in the Premiership, by the way?

  59. daz

    Bamford

    The value for us in the FA cup is that it gets a monkey off our back and is a big step in the right direction as for Chelsea what you described would be a big step in the wrong direction off the edge of a cliff so for me I doubt Chelsea fans will be singing at the end of the season

  60. Bamford10

    Nasri

    One, form is temporary, (footballing) class is permanent: Costa is a much better player than Giroud, regardless of temporary form. Anyone who says otherwise shouldn’t be taken seriously.

    Two, Costa was mentally out-of-sorts, clearly, the first half of the season. Has looked the old Costa of late, however — since Mourinho’s departure — and has four goals in his last three games. I suspect his form will be better than Giroud’s soon enough, if it isn’t already. Frankly, as long as he shows up (mentally) his form is better than Giroud’s, because he is simply that much better a player.

  61. Bamford10

    Wallace

    You mean, not to you, it doesn’t. For me, it does. Indeed I think it is irrational to see it otherwise, but I’ll let your ilk think of it however you like. If winning the FA Cup after beating City and Chelsea would mean no more to you than winning the FA Cup after beating Hull City and Aston Villa, nothing can be done for you.

  62. Wallace

    Phd

    “Giroud has been in the Premiership how long? Almost 4 years?
    You would at some point expect, to see some progression.”

    well, his goalscoring rate has improved every season he’s been here.

    does that count?

  63. BigCheese

    Salaries are what they are. You have perennial crocks on 100k plus a week at nearly every club.

    Look at Sturridge at pool. Kompany at City. Aguero misses chunks of games at a time. Reus misses up to 8 weeks at a time for BVB. Nasri? Is he still alive? Costa at Chelsea is stealing a living with those biscuit like hammies.

    It’s the way it is in the PL. Imagine saying to Theo or Wilshere that they will be on a basic wage which will be topped up with bonuses based on performances etc. His agent will tell us to fuck off as they’ll probably get the same salary at Bournemouth as the players world class, according to the British press.

    Perfect example of how it should be done is Monreal. Allegedly was on 60k a week and now he’s arguably our most consistent performer along with Koscienly he gets a modest 20k week pay rise and new contract.

    With the new TV money his example will be the exception and definitely not the norm.

  64. Bamford10

    Daz

    One, it actually only got one “monkey” off our back, and not the important or meaningful “monkey” at that. The only “monkey” it released us from was the bland, general and frankly dumb “no trophy” monkey. But this was/is not the important monkey: the important monkey is our not having competed for or won the league title in a decade. That’s what really matters, and that monkey remains.

  65. Wallace

    Bamford

    “If winning the FA Cup after beating City and Chelsea would mean no more to you than winning the FA Cup after beating Hull City and Aston Villa, nothing can be done for you.”

    what do you want Wenger to do, refuse to play until we do draw Chelsea or Man City?

    your views w/r/t the FA Cup are probably the area where you lose most credibility…amongst English fans at least.

  66. Samesong

    your views w/r/t the FA Cup are probably the area where you lose most credibility…amongst English fans at least.

    Certainly agree on that.

    I can see the Wembley Arch from my house.

  67. BigCheese

    If winning the FA Cup after beating City and Chelsea would mean no more to you than winning the FA Cup after beating Hull City and Aston Villa…

    Really?

    Surely a trophy is a trophy? Regardless of what teams you beat? Would you say the same if we won the CL and avoided all the big teams?

    Quite an anal statement.

  68. BigCheese

    Porto won the 2004 champions league and beat some average teams. The only big one was Man Utd.

    Does history remember them as champions or champions with an asterisk?

  69. Bamford10

    Nasri

    “If we’d finished 8th and only just qualified for the Europa Cup last season you’d be calling it an absolute disaster.”

    Actually, if we fired Arsene Wenger midway through the season — as Chelsea have Mourinho — that in itself would make the season a fabulous success, imo. If we then, under a new manager, played great football in the second half of the season and beat a City or Chelsea en route to an FA Cup title, I’d be thrilled.

    I’d even be excited about the Europa the next year. Why? We’d have a new manager and we’d be competing for a European trophy — which we are NOT doing this year, despite our being in the competition (the CL).

  70. daz

    Shows how far Chelsea have come if they would be disappointed winnng the FA Cup

    They wouldn’t be disappointed about winning the cup but finishing 8th when you began the season as favourites would put a dampener on things to say the least

  71. Redtruth

    The glamour has gone out of winning the FA Cup with teams showing contempt for the competition by fielding weakened sides in pursuit of points over prizes.

  72. daz

    I’d even be excited about the Europa the next year. Why? We’d have a new manager and we’d be competing for a European trophy — which we are NOT doing this year, despite our being in the competition (the CL).

    Difference is though Chelsea fans didn’t want a new manager did they? They are gutted so your statement that they will be celebrating finishing 8th is a false one

  73. Sam

    same was said to Coquelin 2years ago. Gnabry will recover n I am sure about that. If he’s patient like Coq he surely has a future at Arsenal.

    He’s an arsenal player btw

  74. Bamford10

    Again, an FA Cup title in which you beat the top teams en route possesses more value and more glory than one in which you beat mediocre sides en route. Deny it all you like, but it does. To the fan in the stadium as well.

    That you approach this irrationally — and somewhat religiously, in truth — saying “every FA Cup title is equal” is your problem, not mine.

    And again, I’m not saying those FA titles have NO VALUE, I’m saying they have less value than they would had we beaten City or Chelsea en route or in the final. To say otherwise is, imo, to lie to oneself.

  75. Dissenter

    I’m with Bamford on our chances against Barca.

    A big fat 0%
    Hell will have to freeze over for us to win them
    The Messi-Suarez-Neymar axis is too much for us.

    How do you contain these three for 180 minutes?

    Hopefully we can give them a game to remember and not get shamed.

  76. BigCheese

    The way our frugal board are there is no way we can cope with the loss of CL revenue. Teams like Chelsea, City and United can as their endorsements and rich owners can subsidise the lost income.

    Those whom wish for us to bomb so that Wenger gets sacked is horseshit. Dropping out of the top 4 is a massive risk. Top players will only play if you’re in CL and/or pay top bucks. We don’t do the latter often so need the former.

    The way I’d do it is this,

    He has one more year I believe after this season? Let him do his thing, which is maintain over top 4 status and if possible win the league and/or FA cup (CL is a pipe dream). Spend as little as possible (easy for him) do there is a massive pot for the new gaffer.

    Behind the scenes we need to plan ahead. Put the feelers out there for say Pep and prepare for life after Wenger.

  77. Bamford10

    BigCheese

    The CL is different, as it is the most prestigious title in club football. The competition is loaded with top caliber teams, not the likes of Hull City and Aston Villa. Therefore to win it is always a massive glory.

    As for Arsenal, yes, of course a CL title would be glorious regardless who we played along the way, because it is the CL. However, two things: one, it would be even more glorious if we beat some of the world’s best sides en route; and two, it will never happen, because Arsene Wenger is not good enough at that level.

  78. daz

    And again, I’m not saying those FA titles have NO VALUE, I’m saying they have less value than they would had we beaten City or Chelsea en route or in the final. To say otherwise is, imo, to lie to oneself.

    But don’t you see that they weren’t good enough to reach the final so how’s our run devalued due to them getting knocked out and besides we played utd who according to some are a stronger side than us

  79. underrated Coq

    Bamford10 ejaculating over Chelsea after a couple of decent performances ( one against a League 1 side ) ? Who could have seen this coming..?!

    But seriously..why you even ‘support’ Arsenal I have no idea. You obviously get no joy from anything worth celebrating. Your embarrassing explanations to try and discredit/ downplay our consecutive FA cup successes tells as much. No, instead you actually seem to get joy from deriding everything re Arsenal..from the manager to the players and bigging up any and every other team/its players at the expense of Arsenal.

    But wait…you are the most ‘objective’ poster on here. Nothing speaks objective more than saying Chelsea–who have been absolutely garbage most of the season–would be more favored to win the FA Cup than back-to-back winners and holders Arsenal.

    Are you really this dumb or do you simply write such tosh to drive the comments?

  80. Muzzol

    In 2013/14 enroute the FA cup, arsenal defeated Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton that finished 2nd, 5th and 6th in the league log. In 2014/15 they defeated Man Utd at Old Trafford enroute the cup…Is Bamford saying those feats are not commendable enough to call them worthy champions? Why not openly for once confess your Chelsea affiliation?

  81. Joe

    When you’ve won leagues and a CL along the way. Winning just the Fa cup isn’t as bad as winning nothing for 10
    Seasons and only having an Fa cup to show for it

    Fa cup
    For Chelsea would be another trophy added where for Arsenal
    T was. Monkey off the back and unfortunately saved wengers job

  82. Phd007

    Now we are debating the value of the FAC…

    Look to the Arsenal apologists out there..Simple question. .

    Why did we move from Highbury to the Emirates ?

    To go through a 9 year trophy drought and start winning FAC’s??

  83. Dissenter

    I hope Ramsey is fit for the Barca games.
    He can use the games to showboat and advertise his wares to Barca.

    I hope Coquelin is fit and can show Bamford how good he really is.

  84. daz

    Now we are debating the value of the FAC…Look to the Arsenal apologists out there..Simple question. .Why did we move from Highbury to the Emirates ?To go through a 9 year trophy drought and start winning FAC’s??

    How hard is it to grasp that winning a trophy will help build confidence at the club which will help win bigger titles, winning breds winning is the old saying if people can’t see the value in back to back trophies then there really is no hope for you, and joe it wouldn’t be just another trophy for Chelsea yeah if they just missed out on the title maybe but not under the circumstances that they are in this season

  85. nasri's mouth

    @Bamford10

    Are you claimimg Costa has been better than Giroud this season? Yes or no?

    I just want to know whether to laugh at you for lying or laugh at you for admitting you got it wrong earlier

  86. Bamford10

    Nasri

    Can you read? I said he’s the better player, regardless his “form” in the first half of the season. I further said he is fine form of late and will likely be in better form in second half of the season, largely because as long as he shows up mentally, he’s a far better player than Giroud.

    Does Giroud have better stats for the first half of the season? Sure. Is Giroud the better player? No. Not even close.

  87. BigCheese

    Bamford,
    A title is a title. I couldn’t care less which teams we have to play. The trophy is still the same whether you beat Villa or Man City in the final.

    Unless they bring out a limited edition trophy because you’ve beaten Chelsea/City/United on route.

  88. Bamford10

    Underrated

    Take a deep breath and think before you post next time, mate. That I am more critical than you does not make me any less a fan, nor does my lower estimation of our FA titles make me any less a fan. Just a different kind of fan, with different criteria and different expectations for Arsenal.

    I take plenty of joy in Arsenal, however, and I’ll let you know when I am happy next.

    Cheers.

  89. Dusty Kart

    Wenger doing the moonwalk over this transfer window only a cheap squad player coming in.
    Ffs the mighty Bournemouth are showing more ambition than us.

  90. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    I’m well aware of how good Coquelin is. He’s quite good — just not good enough to start for the French National Team, nor good enough to start for Arsenal if we want to be the best team in England or compete for the CL title.

  91. BigCheese

    For too long we’ve had supposedly better players than the competition and ended up empty handed.

    I’d happily have inferior players that win something. Rather than a team of supposed superstars like we did in the past. What did we win with RvP, Cesc, er Al in their prime?

    Giroud has many limitations – he runs like he’s wading in custard, he gets in a strop ala Henry (minus the talent) and he misses far too many chances for my liking.

    However. The positives are;
    Works hard for the team.
    Loves an assist.
    Combines well with our attack (Ramsey, Ozil and Bellerin seem to click well with him).
    His Ace up his sleeve – very rarely gets injured. Came back from a broken foot in no time.

    Costa – is a ferocious front man. On his day he’s unplayable. But he’s a ticking time bomb and is very injury prone. As it stands on form and league position of their respective teams Giroud is a better player.

  92. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    And by the way, Elneny may make the Coquelin discussion moot. If he comes in and plays the CDM role — and plays it well — he could become the starter there. He’s quite good on the ball, so if his tackling/ball-winning is good enough — and it seems to be pretty good — then this conversation will be over: Elneny will replace Coquelin as the starting CDM, and we’ll have a new debate — Team Coq vs. Team Elneny vs. Team We-Still-Need-Better.

    We will see.

  93. Arseology

    Shock horror…. Bamford ejaculating his love for other teams players bukkake style.

    However, there are some promising signs – at least he had a quick little tug praising Iwobi. Small steps and all that.

  94. alexanderhenry

    I didn’t rate giroud at first. However, I’m impressed by the way he’s developed into an effective centre forward. Is he one of the best out there? Of course not, but what do you expect for £12 million.
    The main issue here isn’t giroud, it’s money. It’s always money. Arsenal fc should have a better centre forward in it’s squad. The club has to cough up though. There’s no way round it.

  95. Arseology

    We will never realize our true potential and join the group of elite clubs as long as we have Kroenke Inc running us like a corporation masquerading as a football club.

  96. alexanderhenry

    Big cheese

    ‘For too long we’ve had supposedly better players than the competition and ended up empty handed.’…..Really?

    We’ve got the best squad we’ve had for ten years but I still think it’s only the third maybe fourth best in the league. Make no mistake, if we win the league this season, it will be a major upset. No one fancied us at the beginning quite rightly.

    Man city bought stirling for £44 million, otamendi for £28 million and de bruyne for £54 million

    Man utd bought martial for £35 million, schneiderlin for £25 million. depay for £19 million darmian for £12 million and schweinstieger for £6 million . They also make a £15 million loss on selling di maria.

    Chelsea spent £19 million on pedro, £14 million on baba and £7 million on begovic. A modest outlay by their standards but they did waste £23 million on cuadrado the previous season.

    Arsenal spent £9 million on cech- the transfer of the season.

    How on earth are we top of the league?

  97. daz

    I would say bamford has only brought up the Costa v Giroud debate to cover up the benteke v Giroud debate as he knows he has lost that one

  98. Bamford10

    Alexander

    You’re actually pretty reasonable when you’re not telling us that our lack of signings this past summer was down to Kroenke, not Wenger.

    Good post above re relative strengths of the top squads in the EPL.

    And a good q: how are we top? Mismanagement at United, mismanagement at Chelsea, poor defense and injuries at City. No one else worth mentioning.

  99. Phd007

    A particular poster who takes immense pleasure at laughing/humiliating or generally making a mockery of other people, in order for him to feel good about himself over the course of a five year period-says a lot about that person.

    Deep seated insecurities??

    Quite sad..

    If you indeed claim to have such knowledge, you would use it to empower others, to enlighten them . Not belittle them.

    You are a first class jerk.
    Nothings changed in 5 years..

  100. gary

    Find that really weird with regards to beating some of the big teams along the way..in every draw of the round I pray we DON’T get a big team.. so if we won the CL but didn’tplay Bayern or Barca..then you wouldn’t be happy? ..weird…it’s like if we win the league with record low points, so what..it’s all about the winning

  101. daz

    And a good q: how are we top? Mismanagement at United, mismanagement at Chelsea, poor defense and injuries at City. No one else worth mentioning.

    How you can use injuries as an excuse for city I don’t know, they have £60m worth of CB playing even without kompany and the most expensive attacking line up in the league even without aguero how can they not do better than bumbling Giroud and a snail like mert?

  102. alexanderhenry

    Bamford

    Nothing to do with wenger then. He’s only the manager after all. This arsenal side has just materialised out of thin air I suppose. The players coach themselves, devise their own tactics, bould puts the cones out and wenger just sits on the sidelines staring into space.

    Anyway, on kroenke we’ll see how ambitious our illustrious owner is soon enough. If, as you suggest. he’s been pushing huge piles of cash wenger’s way for years, only for wenger to refuse it, after next season everything will change. An ancelotti, guardiola, simeone or mourihno will take over and be given the keys to the arsenal safe….right?
    I mean Mr Kroenke owns four other clubs in america. He’s an experienced and respected owner. Look how well they do……oh, wait a minute. How well do they do Bamford?

  103. Bamford10

    Alexander

    Wenger is responsible for our stability and our passing approach, sure, and for that he deserves his due. But I don’t believe he’s the brain behind our defensive set-up, so I’m not giving him credit for that. Plus my point is that our position is in large part down to the poor-ness of the other top clubs, not to our “excellence”. We haven’t been “excellent”.

    And care to clarify your position on why we only spent £11m this summer? Was this because Kroenke didn’t make more money available to Wenger, or was it because Wenger decided he didn’t need/want to spend the (ample) funds he had available to him? Genuinely curious.

  104. Bamford10

    Alexander

    I don’t follow his teams here, but generally they’re pretty mediocre. That doesn’t mean, however, that he hasn’t given Wenger what Wenger needs to compete for the title. The latter is your contention.

  105. alexanderhenry

    Bamford

    Wenger is the brain behind all of arsenal’s tactics. Our defence has improved because we have better defenders. It’s as simple as that. Koscielny in particular has become an outstanding centre back.
    On being ‘excellent’, you’re right, we are not that., but neither were many of the man utd sides who won the league at the back end of fergie’s career. Who cares though.? They won those championships and that’s all that matters. If we pull it off this season, it will be a great season for arsenal fc; as great as any other championship winning season.
    On the summer window, I do not think that kroenke gave wenger enough money to significantly strengthen the side. There may have been a few million left over in the kitty, but that won’t get you a benzema, higuain or suarez. Kroenke holds the purse strings and it’s his decision how much the club spends. This is the way it works at all football clubs.
    Kroenke is stockpiling cash at arsenal. Maybe he’s looking to sell or perhaps he’s using the wealth of the club as collateral for his other endeavours.
    What is not happening is kroenke offering wenger significant funds to spend every season, only for wenger to refuse it. If that was the case- arsenal missing out every season due to lack of depth in the squad despite wenger being offered money to strengthen- kroenke would have fired wenger about eight years ago.

    Think about it Bamford.

  106. Joe

    Arseology

    The same kronke that let Wenger have at minimum 80m that was left unspent. BY WENGER. The same kronke that let Wenger spend 35 and 42 million on Sanchez and Ozil

    Yes. Kronke is the one holding Arsenal back and not Wenger.

    Fuck me