Brilliant 3 points, but a worrying performance from Arsenal

by .

Screen Shot 2015-09-27 at 12.01.42

A great start to the weekend. Manchester City ripped apart by Arnautovic and Shaqiri. United lucky to get a point against a very good West Ham. PLUS, three points to the good guys.

Key take-aways

Sunderland are not a good side

They’re one of the worst teams in the league and we made them look very good today. If they had good players, they’d have put 3 past us. We were open in midfield, we were sloppy at the back and we really didn’t gel. I’m down with the three points, but that was a very unfair result when you weigh up the chances. We have one more game to gel before City. We need to play like we’re in with a shout of the league.

Second Tier Attitude

I just don’t see much fight from our second stringers. We looked flat and beaten for large parts of the game. The players you’d expect to be pulling up trees to impress just didn’t click. Another pretty average game for Chambo out on the left, a bland game from Flamini and a productive one from JC… but again, he just looks lost in our side.

Mesut is a god

He was fantastic again today. Opening up Sunderland with ease again. His vision kept us dangerous. It’s amazing that he’s landed 12 assists already (Cesc in his prime for us only managed 13)… with a real lack of class ahead of him. We need to treat him with kid gloves, because without him today, we’d have been in trouble.

Giroud

When he drops to the bench, he’ll deserve it. He scored an own goal, then he nodded in nicely for our second. Outside that, it was a lot of bluster. Running around knocking into opposition isn’t productive. It’s been the story of his season though. Another who made a positive contribution without really making much of an impact outside of the goal.

Theo is back

Can’t help but be really excited that we have some pace back in that front line. We’ll be needing him fresh for the Villa game and I’d imagine he’ll be integral if we’re to beat City in a few weeks time.

Monreal

A lot of man love for the full back. His passion and hunger shines through. He loves going to battle and he loves to win. A really important performance again. A man who offers leadership when others shy away.

Cech

Some brilliant saves and a dominant performance again. He makes the stops you know our other two wouldn’t. Today’s game is a exactly the sort of tie we’d draw or lose because of an average keeper not making his cash.

Flamini

Again, not a great game from the Frenchman, but he can’t help being average. Chambers dropping on was interesting. Is Wenger going to be tempted to play him in centre mid in the CL? I’d love to see how he did! I mean, I know that’s a flip flop statement… but Flamini really is going to land us in trouble against better sides.

The Table

We’re back up to 2nd. Behind a Leicester who just can’t stop winning. Incredible scenes over there!

So, time for us to kick on. Let’s make sure away from home in Greece this week. We need to get the victory, we need to find some style to our game and we need to settle on a team that’ll play against City in a few weeks.

December is a big month, what a great way to kick it off, even if the performance was a bit grubby.

428 Responses to “Brilliant 3 points, but a worrying performance from Arsenal”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. underrated Coq

    WE, agree. The quality of their squad is not all that. Think the main issue though is their CM. Main ones, Toure and Fernandinho are on the wrong side of 30, so might see a drop off in their quality in the second half of the season. It was the same last year too, they struggled to keep up with Chelsea after January.

  2. gonsterous

    Funnily enough, I’m not worried about Leicester city.. they have terrible squad depth ( something we have been saying is the reason we can’t win the league) and as they say form is temporary class is yet to be seen…

  3. Al

    Bojan as a signing could be well worth it. Extremely proven young talent, reasonably priced, can fill any of the front three positions and played at the highest level already.

    We could do a lot worse then signing him

  4. MidwestGun

    I like Rabiot but not on a loan, unless we have an option to buy. Imo,if we do a loan deal we are just putting off til the summer what we should have done last summer.

  5. MidwestGun

    Cesc –
    Ya, I expect Pool to put more high pressure in this half. Thought Newcastle started out fairly crap but gained confidence and should have scored there at the end.

  6. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    Yeah they really grew into that half and could easily have got two by the end there. They do just lack a bit of quality, lots of loose passes and touches.

  7. London gunner

    Hazard is overrated. People were talking him up as a future ballon d’or winner and as good as Neymar /same potential only 2 seasons ago.

    I even got in an actual debate over the fact I thought robben was better than hazard with most of this blog saying hazard was better and robben wasn’t world class because he is too one footed and predictable. Laughable hipster Arsenal fans getting it wrong as usual but to snide and snobby to admit it.

    Hazard no doubt has Great ball control and dribbler but he dribbles down to many blind alleys and lacks real quality with his end product.

    If we had won the title last year no doubt players of the season would be Sanchez.

    Also if hazard is so great how comes he still hasn’t overtaken walcotts scoring and assist stats in a season? Despite the fact hazard for most of his career has been in a better Chelsea team than walcotts Arsenal.

    Imo hazard is overrated because he gets way more hype and talk of ballon d’or then reus or even griezmann who is just as good.

  8. Berg

    Just watching the Newcastle v Liverpool. This wynhaldhm would be good signing for us. Box to box and full of energy. Way above Newcatles level

  9. WengerEagle

    ‘I even got in an actual debate over the fact I thought robben was better than hazard with most of this blog saying hazard was better and robben wasn’t world class because he is too one footed and predictable. Laughable hipster Arsenal fans getting it wrong as usual but to snide and snobby to admit it.’

    Smells like BS to me.

    I don’t remember anyone saying that Robben was not world class and that Hazard was better on here.

    It’s easy for you to crawl out of the woodwork with the Hazard criticism now, I know that you’re a big Costa fan for example and he’s been just as shit.

  10. WengerEagle

    People can be so fickle, honestly.

    Hazard is still an unbelievable footballer, one third of a poor season from the last 6 odd years doesn’t change that.

    Something is seriously wrong at Chelsea because none of their players barring maybe Willian are performing even close to their ability.

    Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Oscar, Matic, Azpilicueta, etc are all top class players, it’s honestly shocking how they all look like they’ve forgotten how to play football this season.

  11. MidwestGun

    I’ve always thought Robben is better, just can’t stand the diving cunt so it comes across I don’t think he’s good. Lol.

    To be honest I think a lot of Belgian players are over -rated as well as their Fifa ranking of number 1.

  12. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    Hardly crawling out of the wood work. Also why do you have such a rude aggressive guy?

    I was rating robben when everyone on this blog were saying laughable things like he cuts in of the right to much it’s to predictable he is to limited and one footed. Even people saying he wasn’t works class because he dives to much.

    People were honestly saying hazard was better than robben. This was at the start of bayerns triple winning season.

    Costa has been awful… Not sure what that’s got to do with it since we are speaking of hazard….
    Either way what Costa achieved with AM and then with Chelsea in his first season is more impressive than hazard imo.

    Hazard hasn’t won a title as a key player in an underdog team defeating two behemoth clubs in RN and barca.

    Underrated was right about the hazard fan boys getting all bent out of shape as I wasn’t saying hazard isn’t s very good player or even a great one just overrated as he is not a top
    10 player in the world like his fans would say.

  13. WengerEagle

    Agreed Mid.

    I’ve seen plenty on here questioning Robben’s honesty with all the diving myself included but no one has ever questioned his ability, which is right up there at the very top.

    At his best he sits in the tier under Messi and Neymar for me.

  14. Bamford10

    Agree with WE. One poor half-season in a toxic Chelsea team does not change the fact that Hazard is a fantastic footballer. Better than Robben? No. As good as Neymar? No. But still very, very talented.

    I guess a better question is whether he’s better than, say, Sanchez. For me he’s more technically polished than Sanchez, but Sanchez’s attitude, work ethic and explosiveness bring him level to Hazard.

    London – Care to explain what a “hipster” football fan is? I still haven’t gotten a satisfying answer to this q.

  15. London gunner

    I would say bales best season in the premier league was superior to hazards.

    Sanchez best season imo out weighs hazard.

    Reus at 23 scored 14 goals and 9 assists in 32 games

    Hazard at 24 14 goals and 9 assists in 38 games

    So let’s not pretend hazard is better than reus.

    People include hazard in Suarez, Neymar bracket when really he is in the reus, griezmann bracket

  16. naijagunner

    Hazard is a very talented footballer….but his lack of end product most times is a huge drawback…..on his day he wins games on his own. Am not gonna compare him to anyone cos I don’t believe in comparisons….

  17. WengerEagle

    ‘Hardly crawling out of the wood work. Also why do you have such a rude aggressive guy?’

    Get a grip, I’ve seen you attack enough people on here with abrasive arguments so give the victim act a rest. I didn’t say anything offensive to you.

    ‘I was rating robben when everyone on this blog were saying laughable things like he cuts in of the right to much it’s to predictable he is to limited and one footed. Even people saying he wasn’t works class because he dives to much.’

    Lol as if you were the only person to have rated Robben before 2012/13. Most football lovers could see that Robben was a world class player in the making after the 2004//05 season at Chelsea as a 21 year old kid. At Bayern he moved up a few levels and has been a world class performer for the best part of 6 years now. His game actually is quite predictable which makes him even more impressive IMO as people know what he’ll do but still can’t stop him.

    ‘Costa has been awful… Not sure what that’s got to do with it since we are speaking of hazard….’

    It’s got everything to do with it as it proves your hypocrisy, you’ll give Hazard both barrels but excuse Costa for his equally poor performances this season just because it’s known that you’re a fan of him on here. Disingenuous to say the least.

    ‘Hazard hasn’t won a title as a key player in an underdog team defeating two behemoth clubs in RN and barca.’

    He’s been more consistent than Costa who barring those two seasons and a decent second half of 2012/13 hadn’t really done much before. It’s not even about comparing the two, as one is a ST and the other a midfielder, it just shows your double standards that you won’t call Costa out on his awful displays but you’ll shit all over Hazard for his.

    So defending Hazard from ridiculous and clearly biased criticism now makes me a fanboy?

    Ok.

  18. Cesc Appeal

    Big slice of fortune today for Newcastle with the own goal and the disallowed Moreno goal.

    But they have deserved their luck a bit, dislike using that phrase, but they’ve put a lot into this game and Liverpool haven’t quite been at it.

  19. London gunner

    Bamford

    Football hipsterism.

    Is someone who doesn’t analyse data or use facts or logic to back up their arguments. Instead they use wishy washy statements, buzzwords and say something without really meaning anything real or tangible that can be held up to scrutiny.

    In this way they actually avoid all intellectual debate as they don’t prescribe to the normal parameters of what can be judged as correct or incorrect.

    They will also hold snobby attitudes without really understanding why.

    Case point robben wasn’t world class because he was one footed. I stated he is more effective with that one foot then the majority of two footed players in the world. The hipster is to obsessed with the art form rather than the end results to acknowledge this.

  20. Danish Gooner

    We didnt play well yesterday but still maneged to score 3 goals,still think the Olympiakos games were on their minds,if we fail that test it could have immense repercussions on the mood of the squad.

  21. WengerEagle

    Griezmann is nothing like Hazard, plays a completely different position and has totally different attributes which renders any comparisons useless IMO.

    Reus struggles with consistency himself and is a little overrated himself too IMO.

    Bale hasn’t been tearing up any trees in Spain for the best part of a year and a half now.

    Suarez is an out and out striker so again, poor comparison.

  22. Cesc Appeal

    Played like shit, got three points, Spurs drew, Liverpool lost, City lost, United drew…one of those weekends where you take it and just slowly back out of the room without breaking eye contact or allowing any form of expression to come across your face before bolting.

  23. WengerEagle

    ‘Case point robben wasn’t world class because he was one footed. I stated he is more effective with that one foot then the majority of two footed players in the world. The hipster is to obsessed with the art form rather than the end results to acknowledge this.’

    Who are you talking about here though?

  24. Redtruth

    Costa had one good season with Atletico and an okay first season with Chelsea.

    Costa never scored a goal in Europe for Chelsea last season.

    Loonies are so quick too elevate an average player to world class status

  25. steve

    @London Gunner

    No what happened if I recall correctly is that there was a debate on the blog with you saying Walcott was better than Hazard and rightly so because that was a laughable statement.

  26. gazzap

    If someone had told me that on 6 December we’d be in front City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, and Spurs, I’d have bitten your hand off for that. Who’ve thunk that we’d still be second. Leicester are living the dream.
    Leicester’s next 6 fixtures couldn’t be much trickier.
    Leicester v Chelsea
    Everton v Leicester
    Liverpool v Leicester
    Leicester v Man City
    Leicester v Bournemouth
    Tottenham v Leicester

  27. WengerEagle

    ‘No what happened if I recall correctly is that there was a debate on the blog with you saying Walcott was better than Hazard and rightly so because that was a laughable statement.’

    Haha, yeah that sounds about right.

  28. Danish Gooner

    Costa and Hazard are hit with maureenitis but they are world class players and i would love to have them in our squad, instead of Oxlade and Joel Campbell.

  29. Bamford10

    London

    I’m calling bogus on use of the phrase then. If it meant a person who is only a casual observer of the game, or someone who has only watched the game for a short time, or someone who is a bandwagon fan, I’d say it has merit.

    But you seem to regard anyone who doesn’t evaluate players as you do — namely, strictly by statistics, and only certain statistics at that — as a “hipster”. This is dumb: not only does the game possess qualitative elements, but the stats that you and others cite don’t even tell the whole QUANTITATIVE story.

    Just because a person isn’t a philistine with respect to the game doesn’t mean they’re a “hipster”.

  30. vicky

    Oh come on, I am not a big Hazard fan but he is one of the best 5 players in the league without a shadow of doubt. But, I do think Robben is and has always been better than Hazard.

    Diego Costa is just a bully. He had two great seasons. He was an unknown entity before that and a liability now. When you think of Costa, you don’t think of a player who is very skillful or has great footballing brilliance. He has had a career similar to Mario Gomez. Nothing special about that guy.

  31. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    I’m talking about compassion between specific roles or positions so stop being so anal.

    I’m talking about young players who are attackers.

    “Reus struggles with consistency himself and is a little overrated himself too IMO.”

    Well if reus is overrated as is hazard as they are at the same level. Difference is you don’t hear people saying reus is a future ballon d’or winner.

    Also why are you such an arsehole? I always try to engage with you in a positive way but tog always try and dig me out.

    Steve

    I said Walcott was more efficient than hazard in terms of his attacking game. But I said hazard was the better more complete football player.

    As it stands Walcott still has a higher combined goal and aside record in the league than hazard

    Walcott at age 23

    14 goals 10 assists in 32 games

    Hazard at 23

    14 goals 9 assists in 38 games

    Interesting to note Walcott has better stats in less game whilst playing in an inferior team to hazard.

    Oh and enough of the argument that hazard stats aren’t as high because of his defensive game when he in fact as a neat non existent defensive output and has been frequently criticised by mouthino for such.

    Of course the sense heads will purposely misconstrue my argument of that Walcott is more efficient than hazard/has better end product as he is a more complete footballer which I have never once said.

    Also I find it laughable people have conviently forgotten the numerous arguments i had supporting robben on here. Funny how when you are proven right your detractors can’t remember your arguments… Hmmm

  32. London gunner

    Vicky

    Best five not counting form or it would exclude all Chelsea players

    No particular order

    ozil
    Cesc
    Silva
    Sanchez
    aguero

    Next rung no particular order

    Debruyne
    Hazard
    Cech
    Toure
    Mata
    Costa

  33. underrated Coq

    Haha, the Hazard debate continues? My initial point was this: Hazard is a talented player, just not as great as some people make him out to be. There’s nothing in his game that justifies all the hype and praise that seems to always be showered on him.

    London Gunner was spot on with his statement. As far as individual performances go, he’s not had as good a season in his career thus far as the likes of Neymar, Robben, Bale and even Sanchez.

  34. vicky

    London

    Agree mostly with your list but I will put Hazard above Cesc. Cesc was sensational with us but he has never achieved a similar level either with Spain national team ,Barca or Chelsea even though he has been a consistent performer at all these places. Hazard can impact a game more than Cesc can, saying this even though I am a big big fan of Cesc.

    Again would have Coutinho in the second rung of player than Costa.

    Toure at his best is better than any player in the league imo. I am a bit surprised you put him in the 2nd rung of players.

  35. underrated Coq

    ” Diego Costa is just a bully. He had two great seasons. He was an unknown entity before that and a liability now. When you think of Costa, you don’t think of a player who is very skillful or has great footballing brilliance. ”

    Completely agree with this. Never rated Costa. Shames the good virtues of sportsmanship. Surprised that there seems to be issues between him and Mourinho. They ought to be a perfect match.

  36. vicky

    I think it was only the British media and Chelski fans who thought Hazard was just behind Messi and Ronaldo.

    But, don’t forget many Arsenal fans thought RVP was “in the same bracket” as Messi and Ronaldo when he was banging goals for us left,right and center. We all are biased to some extent in our assessment of players.

  37. London gunner

    Vicky

    Toure was the best player in the premier league at one point.

    I absolutely love his game, but imo he is on a slow decline being on the wrong side of 30. Hence why he is in second rung.

    Tbh might be controversial but I would actually have de gea in that top 5 list instead of hazard or cesc.

  38. London gunner

    Vicky

    “I think it was only the British media and Chelski fans who thought Hazard was just behind Messi and Ronaldo.”

    That’s the thing there was a genuine sizeable force on le grove who were rating hazard that highly.

    I do think part of it may have been as a result of the anger of wenger not signing hazard.

  39. WengerEagle

    ‘I’m talking about compassion between specific roles or positions so stop being so anal.I’m talking about young players who are attackers.’

    Suarez is 4 years older than Hazard, Robben is 7 years older, Reus is 2 years older, Bale is 2 years older.

    Only Neymar and Griezmann are the same age/younger on your ‘young’ player list.

    ‘Well if reus is overrated as is hazard as they are at the same level. Difference is you don’t hear people saying reus is a future ballon d’or winner.’

    It was mostly Chelsea fans that were talking him up to this level, as much as he’s highly rated non-one else was ever really talking him up to Ballon D’or levels.

    ‘Also why are you such an arsehole? I always try to engage with you in a positive way but tog always try and dig me out.’

    I’m sorry if you think that I’m an arsehole but I couldn’t really give a monkeys if I’m honest. That’s blatantly untrue, you’ve called me out ‘rudely’ as you put it plenty of times before as I have you. It’s called speaking our mind, as passionate football fans tend to do, if we were all here to agree with each other all the time it wouldn’t be that interesting to read, would it?

    Why are you pretending to be ultra-sensitive all of a sudden?

    ‘Also I find it laughable people have conviently forgotten the numerous arguments i had supporting robben on here. Funny how when you are proven right your detractors can’t remember your arguments… ‘

    Lol so as I said before, do you honestly believe that prior to Bayern winning the treble that you were the only person on here who rated Robben as a world class player?

    If so, you are delusional mate.

  40. Mr B

    The problem with a team like Leicester is that this is the first time they have been in such a position,

    Their morale may start to come down faster than it went up, if there is a sustained period of losses without Vardy and/or Mahrez.

    They will be rushed back, wont be able to replicate their performance from the get go under huge pressure. It would be only human of them to crack.

  41. WengerEagle

    ‘That’s the thing there was a genuine sizeable force on le grove who were rating hazard that highly.’

    No, there was a genuine sizable force on Le Grove that rated Hazard as a much better player than Walcott and better than Sanchez (I still believe this to be true, would take more than a third of a season to change my mind on that one).

    Have always rated Robben as a better player as have most.

  42. Cesc Appeal

    I think Sanchez on one flank, Hazard the other is pretty perfect to be honest, balance wise.

    Aubameyang through the middle…because, why the f**k did we not try for Aubameyang?

  43. underrated Coq

    ” Our 5-2 win at Leicester now looks pretty impressive you have to say.”

    That was the best Arsenal performance of the season so far I would say. The Sanchez-Walcott-Ozil combination play was just class. After watching Giroud lagging up our attacking speed for the last few seasons, it made for a refreshing viewing.

  44. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    I’m talking about young players who are attackers.’ And other world class talent in Europe

    You rating hazard above Sanchez is precisely what I mean about wanky football hipsterism

    Sanchez in 35 games in his first season at a new club in a new league scored 16 goals and registered 8 assists for a combined total of 24.

    Hazard playing in a title winning team in possibly the strongest team in the league after being in that team and thus jelling for years with the team and the league scored 14 and registered 9 assists for a combined total of 23.

    Sanchez also played 35 games to hazards 38.

    What Sanchez did was far more ground breaking and impressive the stats show this, but of course the football hipster doesn’t get this and instead bases his arguments o intangibles.

  45. Mr B

    Vardy and Mahrez are directly involved in a third of the goals Leicester have scored, with a total of 33 goals and assist in 16 games.

    Talk about over reliance but to be fair to Reniere he is very pragmatic and continues to say his target in 40 points.

  46. London gunner

    Sanchez since he has been the league has scored

    28 goals and assisted 14 goals

    Hazard in this time has

    Scored 17 goals and assisted 13 goals

    Sanchez combined total 42
    Hazards 30

    Of course hazard is better though 😉

  47. WengerEagle

    London Gunner

    Sanchez faded badly after Christmas last season while Hazard virtually carried Chelsea on his shoulders at times in the second half of the season, it wasn’t a surprise that the only thing that Sanchez won individually was a Twitter poll where we have a huge fanbase, Hazard swept up all of the individual accolades hands down with a pretty much unanimous verdict that he was the best player in the league.

    You are blinded by goals/assists stats which don’t tell the whole story as these can be padded by scoring a glut of goals against a weaker team, just look at Ronaldo this season as an example of how stats goals/assists specifically can be misleading.

    Ronaldo has scored 17 and assisted 5 in 19 apps this season, yet pretty much anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that he’s been nowhere near the level of Neymar or Messi.

    So by calling me a football hipster wanker, you’re essentially calling anyone else who agreed with me the same, which was basically everyone who watched the BPL last season.

  48. Cesc Appeal

    Anyone else think Bellerin has been pretty poor defensively the last few EPL games?

    Certainly needs to pull it together again, that is the problem with young prospects though, form can be a bit sporadic at times.

    Going to be quality no doubt about it, needs to refocus though.

  49. WengerEagle

    ‘Take away Hazard’s penalties and his contribution looks very bad indeed.’

    What people tend to forget is that he won a lot of these penalties himself with mazy dribbles.

    His magical weaving run vs us where he ripped us to shreds for example. Made Koscielny, a world class defender look like a traffic cone.

  50. underrated Coq

    WE

    ” Sanchez faded badly after Christmas last season while Hazard virtually carried Chelsea on his shoulders at times in the second half of the season ”

    Sanchez was new to this League. Ofcourse he would fade at some point. Despite his fade, Sanchez still produced better better numbers than Hazard. So….

    ” You are blinded by goals/assists stats which don’t tell the whole story as these can be padded by scoring a glut of goals against a weaker team ”

    Indeed. Like Hazard’s numerous spot kicks that pad up his awful goal scoring record.

    ” it wasn’t a surprise that the only thing that Sanchez won individually was a Twitter poll where we have a huge fanbase, Hazard swept up all of the individual accolades hands down with a pretty much unanimous verdict that he was the best player in the league. ”

    Too harsh. If Sanchez played for PL winners Chelsea and Hazard for us, who do you think would have won all the accolades? Its really that simple.

  51. Samesong

    Why does a player always have to be better than another?
    I’m sure Hazard himself knows he hasn’t been ripping up trees this season
    Then theres the question of his motivation playing under Mourinho. Has the lads head been turned? Hazard has won the premier league none of our players have. Hazard still remains a very good player in my book.

  52. WengerEagle

    ‘Despite his fade, Sanchez still produced better better numbers than Hazard. So….’

    Sanchez is an inconsistent player, he goes through periods where he can’t stop scoring and periods where he can’t buy a goal. When he’s not scoring goals/assisting he doesn’t contribute an awful lot if we’re honest. Loses the ball in silly places and disrupts our rhythm at times.

    It hasn’t been true this season of course, along with the rest of the Chelsea squad but last season, even when he wasn’t scoring goals Hazard was creating tonnes of chances and giving defenders nightmares with his dribbling ability, creating lots of space which Costa in particular, profited from.

    ‘Too harsh. If Sanchez played for PL winners Chelsea and Hazard for us, who do you think would have won all the accolades? Its really that simple’

    I disagree, Hazard played the better football and was the best player in the league. The fact that Chelsea won the league so comfortably probably helped to make it an easier decision.

    If I remember correctly, we struggled when Sanchez was on his goalscoring run and we couldn’t stop winning matches when he was out of form hence not influential in us winning those games.

    Does that not tell you that maybe we pandered too much to his strengths which detracted from the collective?

  53. tunnygriffboy

    Cesc

    Maybe give Bellerin a rest for the Villa game. Fatigue isn’t just physical. Could be that mentally he’s just switched off a tiny bit. Could play Wednesday then may be rest for the Villa game giving him a 10 day break for the City game where we’ll need his pace.

    Debuchy behind Ox away at Villa isn’t a bad shout but then I suppose we’d play Gabriel instead of Per.

  54. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    Sure has a hard on for hazard.

    No doubt was one of those touting hazard for a ballon d’or

    Hazard single handily won Chelsea the title have we forgotten about Costa and cech’s impact? Have we also forgotten the brilliant performances from Chelsea’s back 4 John terry for instance

  55. underrated Coq

    WE, You compare their stats, they’re hardly worlds apart. Hazard averaged 2.6 keypasses while Sanchez 2.3. Dribbling is the one area that Hazard beats most footballers( 4.8 to Sanchez’s 3.5 ) but lets not pretend he has other weaker aspects in his game, scoring goals being one. I mean, for a player who plays in a front three, his goal scoring is bang average.

    ” I disagree, Hazard played the better football and was the best player in the league. ”

    There was little to choose from between Alexis and Hazard IMO. It was Chelsea winning the PL that tipped the scales, nothing more.

    ” If I remember correctly, we struggled when Sanchez was on his goalscoring run and we couldn’t stop winning matches when he was out of form hence not influential in us winning those games. ”

    Man, you’re just trying to discredit Alexis now. He single-handedly kept us afloat in the first half of last season when the likes of Ozil, Giroud and Ramsey were injured. Injuries were the reason we struggled in the early part. A bit pathetic of you to use that stick to beat the one guy who saved us.

    Also find it a bit funny that you can use Hazard single-handedly carrying his team as a means to glorify him and yet, when Sanchez did the same it means he was responsible for our struggles? That’s some twisted logic.

  56. London gunner

    “even when he wasn’t scoring goals Hazard was creating tonnes of chances and giving defenders nightmares with his dribbling ability, creating lots of space which Costa in particular, profited from.”

    Once again the intangibles such as creating space loooool I was waiting for that card it’s such a basic cliche line. So Sanchez doesn’t create space?

    Oh and hazard is inconstant as well even in the title run he had plenty of games he didn’t have direct impact on the goals scored and it was more the partnership between cesc and Costa that won them games.

  57. El Tel 1

    Sanchez over Hazard any day. Wonder why RM want Sanchez?

    He made a dribble that made Kosser look like a cone. Oh dear He must be the best then.

  58. WengerEagle

    ‘Hazard single handily won Chelsea the title have we forgotten about Costa and cech’s impact?’

    Yes that was exactly what I said wasn’t it? Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story, eh?

    I said that he carried them after Christmas at times, which he did.

    Cech didn’t even play in the league last season btw.

    What are your thoughts on Ronaldo this season? 17 goals and 5 assists must mean he’s on par with Neymar and better than Messi, right?

    Pleasantly surprised btw that you still have yet to mention how shit Welbeck is in this debate.

  59. Cesc Appeal

    Tunny

    Not sure, Debuchy has been terrible this season, regardless of who he’s lined up against he’s looked so poor.

    It’s a bit like Chambers again, obviously Bellerin is a lot better, but we can’t really take him out of the firing line because, well in Chambers case the back up just wasn’t there, here the back up is poor.

    Don’t blame Wenger for that, Debuchy you would have thought would be reliable, but he’s sulked all season and I’d show him the door midnight January 1st. Poor attitude.

  60. underrated Coq

    Anyway, WE, I don’t think its worth for us to get in a war of words over the merits/demerits of a Chelsea player 😉 Lets just say, you prefer silky technical skills while I prefer pace, explosiveness and goalscoring.

  61. Cesc Appeal

    ‘Would rather Santi than Hazard in fact I would rather Ramsey than Him.’

    Yeah, I think you might be on your own with that one. Maybe the folks at Untold might back you.

  62. nigel tufnel

    agree with Pedro mosrly..
    i thought flamini was very good actually,
    and we should note that giroud was back defending heavily in front of our goal before and after his mistake. he really doesnt get enough credit for his effort all around the pitch..

    having said that, i want to drop him for theo asap because we’re much better rhat way.

    Ramsey will score alot, im sure of it, but he left us so open in midfield. santi is never that high up in front of goal, just plays outside opponents box at his most advanced, has much more discipline, and therefore, zero goals.
    we were perfectly set up with coq santi theo up front and ramsey on wing .. we were so hard to break down.

    and sorry to say that if flamini breaks down, chambers can shield the back 4, but will cost us a load of goals getting caught in posession, and not nearly a good enough distributor.. against better teams we will be overmatched, by a long way.. id prefer gibbs or debuchy at dm after flamini.
    how long is arteta expected to be out?

    any word on rosicky? my boy tomas can tackle and do everything else.

    can we stay close to top till some players get back..? wilsh welb etc.
    the next midfielder we buy should be santis eventual replacement. so he should be a top talent.

  63. El Tel 1

    Do you see Hazard ticking back to support His FB? Does He go in where I hurts to win headers. Apart from dribbling there is no comparison.

    I wouldn’t swap Sanchez for anybody in the EPL.

    Is Ozil still shit by the way?

    Ha Ha so many on here on an agenda

  64. London gunner

    Underrated

    Mate you got to stop! you are owning wenger eagle left right and centre lol.

    Like you said chances created Sanchez is 0.3 of hazard whilst scoring far more goals….

    Hazard dribbling stats are great but what does he do with those dribbles if his end product is so comparatively poor.

    Fact is hazard often dribbles down blind alleys then dribbles back whilst it’s impressive he can maintain possession one can not ignore if it doesn’t result in a Goal or an assist it’s not that effect AV the end result isn’t necessarily positive.

  65. El Tel 1

    So Zidane Manages RM now does He?

    Not just the Metro by the way.

    Santi any day of the week. I believe RM want Him too. Oh wait was it the Metro where I read that?

    Chav fans running wild in this blog for too long.

    Hazard is a class player but the fella pointed out He isn’t as good as the mejia and Chav fans think.

    To say He is better than Sanchez is nuts.

  66. London gunner

    1 if Arsenal had won the league Sanchez would have been crowned player of the season

    2 what Sanchez achieved in his first season at a new club in a new league dwarfs hazards achievements who had been in the league and at Chelsea for years

    3 Sanchez achieved what he achieved in a far weAker and less balanced team than hazard

    4 if hazards so good that he can single handily win Chelsea matches why isn’t he doing it this season? Or perhaps his only as good as the players performing around him and not a game changer in himself

    5 Sanchez goal scoring stats and combined assists are better than hazards whilst having marginally less chances created

    6 hazards fan boys can only use hazards dribbling stats as evidence that he is better than Sanchez whilst not understanding the irony of more dribbles whilst having worse end product

    7 as underrated said.

    “bit pathetic of you to use that stick to beat the one guy who saved us.”

    Failing to understand that Sanchez not perfectly jelling with the rest of the team was more due to the fact he was new to the set up

    He certainly seems to be combining well with Ozil and Walcott this season.

  67. MidwestGun

    Eagle –
    Ya…I’ll be watching MLS final, about the only time I watch the MLS is playoffs mostly unless I happen to catch a late LA or Seattle match during the season
    Watching a kid named Darlington Nagbe for Portland. Much better then Zelelam at this point in his career and the reason Zelelam probably will not be a starter on the US nat. Team for some time if ever.

  68. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    El

    Hazard was electric last time out…
    As was cesc ?

    Things happen forgein players win the league them think that’s it?

    I think that’s the reason …

    Hazard is still a good player but not having a good season !

  69. WengerEagle

    ‘WE, You compare their stats, they’re hardly worlds apart. Hazard averaged 2.6 keypasses while Sanchez 2.3. Dribbling is the one area that Hazard beats most footballers( 4.8 to Sanchez’s 3.5 ) but lets not pretend he has other weaker aspects in his game, scoring goals being one. I mean, for a player who plays in a front three, his goal scoring is bang average.’

    I never said he was world’s better, just think that he was better and it looks like the neutrals all agreed with me hence Hazard cleaning up the individual accolades.

    ‘There was little to choose from between Alexis and Hazard IMO. It was Chelsea winning the PL that tipped the scales, nothing more.’

    Ok, look you’re entitled to that opinion, no point in chopping this up anymore tbh.

    ‘Man, you’re just trying to discredit Alexis now. He single-handedly kept us afloat in the first half of last season when the likes of Ozil, Giroud and Ramsey were injured. Injuries were the reason we struggled in the early part. A bit pathetic of you to use that stick to beat the one guy who saved us.’

    I’m not using it as a stick to beat him with, I call it as I see it. He was pretty poor for about 3 months after Christmas, wasn’t scoring or assisting and was anonymous in a lot of our matches. He was excellent before the turn of the year but how can you say that we didn’t play to his strengths in that time?

    True that injuries forced our hand on this it can be argued but how can you gloss over how poor he was during our run-in where we won virtually every match? That wasn’t just down to having 3 players back, as a team we played much better because we weren’t as heavily reliant on Sanchez.

    He didn’t nearly shine as much when we are firing on all cylinders as a team because he’s a very individualistic player, for better or worse. That’s all I was trying to say.

    ‘Also find it a bit funny that you can use Hazard single-handedly carrying his team as a means to glorify him and yet, when Sanchez did the same it means he was responsible for our struggles? That’s some twisted logic.’

    You’re exaggerating what I said about Hazard, I said that he carried them at times and the main difference between the two is that when Hazard stepped up and played out of his skin, Chelsea were grinding out wins.

    When Sanchez was scoring for fun we were inconsistent.

  70. MidwestGun

    Eagles point was that it wasn’t just football hipsters that rate Hazard. Have no idea how this conversation turned to everyone on here loves Chelscum.

    Comparing Sanchez to Hazard has nothing to do with that arguement.
    Also, he is right, saying everyone or a majority of people on Le Grove believes anything is always usually a bad statement unless you took a poll.
    Over generalizing to say you knew better then the majority was the point he had issue with I believe.

  71. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    I just find it hilarious. I post a comment about hazard and fan boys and straight away you pop up.

    You even then try to bash Sanchez and his performances. Utterly pathetic tbh and very odd.

    Also I find it funny how I posted about football hipsters and basing things on intangibles and then you pop up with one of those comments about hazards offering more when he isn’t scoring or assuring despite having literally no Proof that he does offer more than Sanchez In these instances.

    Well how about this

    Sanchez was averaging 2 tackles a game and 1.2 interceptions

    Hazard was averaging 0.7 tackles and 0.6 interceptions

    So not only was Sanchez scoring more even when wasn’t scoring he had a better defensive impact and input and a higher work rate.

    Your wanky hipsterism’ s and buzzwords won’t work here. Your wrong and you have been proven wrong.own it like a man not a mouse.

  72. WengerEagle

    ‘So Zidane Manages RM now does He?’

    Nope but he does manage the 2nd team which i think qualifies him as part of Real Madrid.

    ‘Not just the Metro by the way.’

    Hahaha, I rest my case.

    So me thinking that an in-form Hazard is slightly better than an in-form Sanchez makes me a Chav?

    You’re starting to sound like those loonies over on Untold mate.

  73. steve

    El Tel 1December 6, 2015 20:30:12
    Would rather Santi than Hazard in fact I would rather Ramsey than Him. There you go. Boom

    Lol Ramsey over Hazard. Ramsey now there’s a bang average player.

  74. WengerEagle

    ‘We all know Santi scores goals too.’

    And people were criticizing Hazard for scoring from the spot ffs, when was the last time Santi scored a goal from open play for us?

  75. Cesc Appeal

    El Tel

    Cazorla is 31, 4ft and crocked…absolutely no chance, at all, even prior to his knee injury they would have gone in for him.

    You seem to jump on any praise for any player from a different team, whilst at the same completely over estimating and over hyping the ability of our own players.

    You say you want Wenger gone and that, but you do just sound like a Wenger cheerleader to be honest.

  76. London gunner

    Wenger eagle

    How pathetically sad you comparing ronaldo piss poor season this season to Sanchez breathtaking season last season to try and bash Sanchez and lessen the acknowledgment of his achievements, in some pursuit to prove that hazard is better.

    What a new level of low you have sunk to.

    Do you honestly think Sanchez didn’t score match winning, match drawing and other vital goals? As well as crucial assists?

    Are you honestly suggesting sanchez goals and assists had little impact like ronaldo’s goals after Real Madrid is winning 3-0 or playing against teams Real Madrid regularly best 4-0 plus.

    Ffs what kind of loser goes out his way to construct paper thin arguments to bash one of our best players.

    I’m beginning to feel sorry for you

  77. WengerEagle

    ‘I just find it hilarious. I post a comment about hazard and fan boys and straight away you pop up.’

    I was on here anyway and give it a rest, I barely have to mention Welbeck’s name for you to spring up on here and abuse him you massive hypocrite. Obsessed is putting it mildly.

    ‘You even then try to bash Sanchez and his performances. Utterly pathetic tbh and very odd.’

    I’m just being honest, IMO he’s an absolute world beater on his day and a pleasure to watch but he is also hugely inconsistent. I think that Hazard at his peak is a better player, so what? I’m clearly not on my own in that respect and don’t need your biased approval.

    Of course this will lead to mugs labelling me as a Chav, couldn’t give a shite.

    ‘Also I find it funny how I posted about football hipsters and basing things on intangibles and then you pop up with one of those comments about hazards offering more when he isn’t scoring or assuring despite having literally no Proof that he does offer more than Sanchez In these instances.’

    You over-simplify football to goals/assists.

    By your reckoning, rating Iniesta as a better player than say De Bruyne is hipsterish even though the latter has much more impressive goals/assists stats. That’s just a quick example off the top of my head, I could easily compile a proper list.

    ‘So not only was Sanchez scoring more even when wasn’t scoring he had a better defensive impact and input and a higher work rate.’

    Did you ever stop and think that maybe this is because Sanchez gives up possession far more than Hazard, well last season anyway which is what we’re talking about? Hence he runs back and gets the ball back sometimes, winning tackles.

    ‘Your wanky hipsterism’ s and buzzwords won’t work here. Your wrong and you have been proven wrong.own it like a man not a mouse.’

    No idea what you’re even on about here, you’d swear that you don’t even watch matches and just surf the web for stats.

  78. London gunner

    Wenger eagle logic

    Person A

    Sanchez scores more goals and has higher combined goals and assists than hazard in a weaker team

    Wenger eagle

    Hazard does more when he isn’t scoring then when Sanchez isn’t scoring

    Person a

    But Sanchez has more tackles and interceptions than hazard

    2, 1.2 v 0.7 0.6

    Wenger eagle

    Errrr well hazard opens up space.

    Person

    Sanchez doesn’t? Sanchez doesn’t interchange with Ozil and Walcott…

    Wenger eagle

    Hazard won player of season

    Rational person A

    Yes hazard was in a title winning team in a heavily Chelsea biased media (at the time) Sanchez wins the league you betcha he wins it

    Wenger eagle
    Then goes onto dump on Sanchez stating he was hindering the team last season despite a testing Sanchez was keeping the team up when the squad was hit with injuries and b Sanchez was new to the league and didn’t speak English

    Funny how in his second season. He is suddenly playing much better with the rest of the team

  79. Paulinho

    If we’re talking ‘hipster’ players then I would probably mention Busquets.

    I think he’s a good player but hugely overrated in terms of effectiveness. However so many – who you can tell don’t watch him that much – always says “Busquets is a diving c*nt but what a brilliant player’. Another Barca player – like Pedro – that’s been completely overrated by association with Iniesta and Xavi.

  80. Wallace

    “No idea what you’re even on about here, you’d swear that you don’t even watch matches and just surf the web for stats.”

    😉

  81. Paulinho

    Midwest – Why?

    Ask most casuals about Wilshere and they will say “Wilshere? He’s a fackin Chav, he was doing lines of the white stuff when he was crocked innit?”

    Football fans in general are very what have you done for me lately,so I don’t think he would figure too high.

    Busquets probably has a ridiculous pass completion rate, and I always think of Hipsters being obsessed with stats that pop during screens during games in some bar.

  82. WengerEagle

    ‘How pathetically sad you comparing ronaldo piss poor season this season to Sanchez breathtaking season last season to try and bash Sanchez and lessen the acknowledgment of his achievements, in some pursuit to prove that hazard is better’

    Piss poor with 17 goals and 5 assists? how is that possible by LG logic?

    Do you not see the irony here?

    As breathtaking as you say Sanchez was last season, his 15 league goals came against:

    Leicester x1 (14th)
    Hull x3 (18th)
    QPR x2 (20th)
    Sunderland x2 (16th)
    Stoke x2 (9th)
    Burnley x2 (19th)
    Southampton x1 (7th)
    Liverpool x1 (6th)
    Man City x1 (2nd)

    His goals vs City, Liverpool, Stoke and Southampton were all at home too.

    So here’s a stat for you, Sanchez failed to score a single goal away from home last season against top half of the table opposition with 10 of his 15 goals coming against sides from 14th and worse.

    How’s that?

    ‘Are you honestly suggesting sanchez goals and assists had little impact like ronaldo’s goals after Real Madrid is winning 3-0 or playing against teams Real Madrid regularly best 4-0 plus.’

    No, some of his goals were indeed crucial not least his fantastic clincher in the F.A Cup Final. I’m just trying to get some perspective because you’re talking out of your arse like a butthurt fanboy with delusional BS that he was much better than Hazard last season.

    ‘Ffs what kind of loser goes out his way to construct paper thin arguments to bash one of our best players.I’m beginning to feel sorry for you’

    Well. you’ve changed your tune from bleating like a constipated goat earlier about how rude I was. Showing your true colours now aren’t you?

    You can’t handle reasoned debate so you launch into the insults game, shows what kind of person you are.

  83. MidwestGun

    Paulinho –
    Because he devides opinions based on his potential and a few moments of brilliance. And he is highly rated despite never really doing anything.
    Think you are severely under rating how much people love JW.

    Not even saying they are wrong. Just saying people defend him based on a feeling and memories moreso then stats.

  84. Bamford10

    The lamest arguments above by far come from El Tel, a blinkered supporter who rates Ramsey above Hazard — what a crock of shit! — and London, a poster who (1) imagines everything’s footballer does can be reduced to a small number of stats, (2) regards all talk of qualitative factors (vision, creativity, technique) as “hipster ism” — hilarious! — and who (3) once told us Walcott was a better player than Hazard on the basis of two stats.

    You’re fine, WE, though I think all factors weighed, Sanchez and Hazard are more or less equal, though Hazard is definitely the more polished and technical of the two.

  85. Paulinho

    “So here’s a stat for you, Sanchez failed to score a single goal away from home last season against top half of the table opposition with 10 of his 15 goals coming against sides from 14th and worse.”

    Yep, ‘breathtaking’ but yet when we played away from home you basically knew he wasn’t going to score or dribble past players, even against average sides.

    He’s improved this season in that regard, to give him his due.

  86. WengerEagle

    ‘Funny how in his second season. He is suddenly playing much better with the rest of the team’

    Same as last season really, explosive in patches but overall, inconsistent.

    Has twice been on a barren goalscoring run already this season.

  87. Paulinho

    “Just saying people defend him based on a feeling and memories moreso then stats.”

    Yeah, memories of how good he is when fully fit 😉

  88. gnarleygeorge9

    May as well be a Traffic Hazard, for the impact he is having @ Chelsea. Rambo is better value. Up the Arse!!!!

  89. MidwestGun

    Lol Paulinho. … just sayin I’d have him at the top of my list.

    Wow….. remember when the US produced good keepers? MLS finals turning into a comedy of keeper errors.

  90. Samesong

    The player that is outshining both Sanchez and Hazard is Mahrez.

    Now he’s a player that is having a brilliant season so far.

  91. Bamford10

    Guess Xavi is a “hipster, ” then, Midwest, because he rates Jack quite high. Gave him high praise in a recent interview.

    This whole “hipster” thing is fucking stupid, if you ask me.

    Recall that gambon regarded Ozil’s defenders as “hipster” fans.

  92. Cesc Appeal

    I’m impressed Xavi remembers who Wilshere is. Suppose if you’re retired though you can dust off those old DVD’s of UCL nights.

  93. Paulinho

    Midwest – I know you are a stats man. Fair enough, at least I can see why Jacky-O doesn’t float your boat.

    Worth mentioning though that around 80% of the United fans who were ecstatic about signing Mata, based on stats at Chelsea, now want him gone because they see him week in week out and see the overall aspects of his game – that can’t be gleaned from stats – that are not up to snuff.

  94. Bamford10

    WE

    Excellent posts today.* Articulate, well-reasoned, well-written. Your posts at 21:13 and 21:34 were particularly good.

    * except early, where you questioned my reasoning. 😉

  95. WengerEagle

    ‘Worth mentioning though that around 80% of the United fans who were ecstatic about signing Mata, based on stats at Chelsea, now want him gone because they see him week in week out and see the overall aspects of his game – that can’t be gleaned from stats – that are not up to snuff.’

    Perfect example of a player that has impressive stats at the expense of the strength of the collective.

    His stats at Valencia shat on David Silva’s from a goals/assists POV.

    Ask any Valencia fans who they would have rather kept.

  96. MidwestGun

    Bamford –
    Actually, I agree the hipster thing is pretty dumb. I remember taking exception to Pedro saying you needed rose colored Ozil hipster glasses to see his talent. I said at the time it would become apparent , it just didn’t disappear.
    For, me Gambon had an agenda on Ozil based on trying to prove Wenger wastes money and cant judge talent. Which may be true, just didn’t believe Ozil was the poster boy for that. Imo, top talented big money signings is exactly the type of signings we should be making. Have to say the last 2 big money signings we made are pretty good.

  97. Paulinho

    “Perfect example of a player that has impressive stats at the expense of the strength of the collective. His stats at Valencia shat on David Silva’s from a goals/assists POV.Ask any Valencia fans who they would have rather kept.”

    The Mata thread on Redcafe is a good read. I loved it when they signed him because I knew he would bomb and mean United wouldn’t be a threat as long as he was there, so it’s been quite funny reading the penny slowly drop for the Mancs who thought he was a Silva level talent in terms of dribbling along with amazing stats.