7 stages of an AFC injury | Doping & fixture pileups linked?

by .

Screen Shot 2015-05-12 at 09.06.44

Here is the 6 stage injury process we go through at Arsenal.

The denial:

Arsene Wenger acknowledges that if you work a player too hard, they can pick up injuries but also says, ‘how can you drop someone who loves to play?’

The injury:

The injury happens and the manager curses the bad luck of the injury.

The recovery date:

The manager goes optimistic, we’re usually given the standard 3 weeks return.

The announcement:

The player comes out in the press and says they’re doing well, but they don’t want to rush themselves back.

The reality: 

Week 9 into the injury, we still haven’t seen Chambo, Wilshere, Welbz, Rambo or Tomas.

The ramifications:

By the time those boys come back, we have Ozil, Sanchez, Santi and Koscielny injured… and so the cycle continues.

Ok, ok, so maybe a bit exaggerated, but I swear, in years to come, they’ll be teaching kids at Public Relations School how to deal with a crisis using Arsenal’s bespoke approach to making the best out of a consistently terrible injury list.

Tonight England take on France in friendly at Wembley. Part of me feels it’s far too soon for that sort of game, especially when Lassana Diarra tragically had a family member amongst the victims of Friday’s attacks… part of me feels like this will be a massive fuck you to the embarrassing scumbags who think they can impact a continent through spectacular acts of cowardice.

It’ll be interesting to see what tone the game is played in. I know that the French players aren’t happy about it and you do wonder how much enthusiasm the English will have for going 100% ‘we need to win’ against their broken European brethren.

We’ll see. Hopefully the evening goes off without event. Just pottering around London yesterday, the place feels on edge. Not good.

Arsene Wenger is on a roll these past few weeks. He’s really going in hard on FIFA and rightly so. Firstly, he’s asked for blood tests to be introduced after he was probes on his L’Equipe comments last week.

“I’m not satisfied with the level of testing because I believe blood tests should be done,”

“If you want to go into a bit more sophistication you have to do blood checks. Urine checks are superficial and not deep enough to say absolutely sure that we have no doping problem in football.

“I think no [we don’t have a problem] and I wish no but on the other hand, can you have 740 football players at a World Cup and come out with zero alert on any doping? It’s a little bit surprising. I hope it is true but I think to be completely sure about it, you want to go into deeper tests.”

Ok, so now we’re getting somewhere with this. Wenger thinks the tests aren’t thorough enough and he wants blood tests introduced. I get that, I find it amazing that urine samples are the only method. But, this leads onto his latest attack on FIFA

“We face a situation where it’s impossible for the players to get through a season and have a rest. This kind of friction that it creates between the clubs, national teams and international competitions can create a split.

“One day the clubs could move away and say, ‘Enough is enough, we pay a huge amount of money for our best players so we’ll get them together ourselves and organise our own competitions’.

“It’s important that all of that gets on the table while we have the opportunity.”

Now for me, the two are interlinked. You’re asking players to run faster for longer and in more games. The weight of competition placed on players is beyond scary these days. Also, factor in that you throw more money into the melting pot, so there’s more on the line. Factor in that because there’s more money on the line, it’s easier to lose your job… and your livelihood.

Then you start to build a picture of how the doping can occur. How do you keep players fit enough for long enough? Currently, what we’re asking of players is only acceptable for the super human players. So you can see how we’re building a situation where doping becomes more likely.

I think Wenger is right. I think we need to get the football calendar in order. I think we need to reduce the amount of games. We need to enforce a winter break. We need to start treating the players like humans, not cattle that we put at the mercy of big name sponsors.

I also think that might be part of the issue we have with fans in the country. Jurgen Klopp said he was appalled to see fans leaving early in his recent match up against Palace.

… and look, so am I. But here’s the thing, you’re at so many games through the season, that some of them start to lose occasion. People have lives to attend. When you’re literally spending 3 chunks of your week at games, you start to get football fatigue and people make the decision that they don’t want to spend 3 hours getting out of a carpark after the game.

NFL is 16 games. It still pulls in the mega money. Germany have a smaller league and a winter break, it still works. No one needs to watch international friendlies in the season, they’re so boring and they impact club football horrendously.

But we’re in a situation where the answer to football popularity is more, more, more…

That has to stop at some point because we’re killing the game and we’re killing the players.

Right, that’s my rant over. Have a bloody fantastic day!

138 Responses to “7 stages of an AFC injury | Doping & fixture pileups linked?”

Jump to comment form ↓

  1. Carts

    To play France tonight is a pointless exercise. Casual and harcore fans don’t necessarily enjoy England games let alone the intl break.

    It’s been mentioned that playing this game is aimed at displaying solidarity and democracy; and also to show the terrorist that we will persevere. Yeah, good one! Cos ISIS actually have a vested interest in football or maybe they’ve waged several spanking Toyota 4×4 and a several thousand barrels of oil on a postponement via Jihad365 or WaleedHill.

    Blood testing costs an absolute fortune to run, and we’re talking Olympic style testing done by WADA. It’ll run into the million as it require repeat samples taken, stored and compared etc etc. It’s practical, as the FA/PL is flush with money, and after all Tony Pulis and I are still waiting to find out what they did with Mourinho’s £50k fine. Maybe we can redirect funds toward this initiative?

    As for games…I think the Capital One Cup should have an opt-in option. Maybe the same could be said for the FA Cup? I know this will effect negotiation right with potential sponsors, but that’s my 2 cent.

  2. diabyearnshownuch

    Athletics has stuck it’s head in the sand for years over doping, and now they’re going to have to deal with it. The same for football, it was only a matter of time before someone blew the whistle……… with the amount of cash sloshing about in football, drugs cheating is inevitable.

  3. Nasri's Mouth

    @Carts

    on it’s own 1 little football match doesn’t make that much difference. But one reason that ISIS blows things up is to create disharmony within the various groups of society. Playing the game shows that we’re not giving in to that. Add to that, with a prince and a Prime minister there, it’ll show solidarity.

  4. diabyearnshownuch

    the rumors around Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes relating to his work with footballers and football teams were rife years ago, but no one dared ask the right questions.

  5. Redtruth

    carte

    What’s the point of football if you’re going to opt out of certain competitions i mean Arsenal have been opting out winning the Premier league for years in favour of settling for top 4 finishes instead.

  6. Carts

    NM

    I think that statement would’ve hold more water if nobody went to work the following day or the City of London shut up shop. I can’t say the same with pointless friendlies, tbh.

    Spain v Belgium has been cancelled…I doubt ISIS are vexed at that.

  7. London Gunner

    Louis Almedia

    Arteta in his first season had average interception rate of 1.9
    Tackle rate of 2.2
    Fouls 1.4
    successful Dribble rate 0.7
    average match rating 7:45

    Coquelin in first season had average interception 3.7
    Tackle rate 3
    Fouls 1.4
    Dribbles 1
    average match rating 7:47

    The stats suggest you are utterly wrong in your assessment and you just have some bizarre bias against Coquelin.

    Coquelin in his second seasonTackles 3.4
    Inteceptions 2.8
    fouls 0.8
    dribbles 2
    average match rating 7.46ArtetaTackles 3.2
    interceptions 2.9
    fouls 2.2 !!!!!!!
    dribbles 1.1
    average match rating 7;37

    Important to note that Arteta was 29 at this point! Probably at his peak. whilst Coquelin is only 24 and the season is not yet over leaving possibility for improvement in these stats.

    Arteta’s stats from a comparable age drop off considerably. But I wont include them as he is only playing for EVerton so would be unfair.

  8. Rhys Jaggar

    Well, it’s all very complicated and lots of factors impinge on all of this.

    1. Yes, doping may take place in football, but I wonder what sort? I mean, EPO doping is fine if you are playing Ecuador in Quito, but I wonder whether it would be necessary in N5 at sea level? You’d have to ask people at the top in football….
    I’m not sure anabolics is really advantageous as too much muscle doesn’t necessarily make you go faster. You look at guys who may well have doped in 100m running and actually I think it’s a bit of a hindrance with all that extra muscle. It’s not as if football is NFL, rugby or weight lifting.

    It’s a pretty complex question….

    2. International friendlies – well, sure, if they were against Panama or San Marino, they are pointless, but the fact is England’s qualifying group was a stroll and we saw against Spain the difference in quality. The TV have made sure the big boys never play each other in qualifying, so how does a manager get to test his squad against tough opposition?? I thought the game last Thursday was more interesting than most of the qualifiers to be honest. A bit different when I grew up in the 1970s and England had to play West Germany in 1972 Euros, Poland in the 1974 qualifying cycle, then Italy in the 1978 qualifying cycle. They lost out to all of them, so from the time I really knew about football (pretty much the 1971 FA Cup final) until 1980, England didn’t qualify for anything.

    The obvious commercial compromise is the big boys in Europe qualify automatically for the finals, the smaller nations compete to get there. That allows big countries to play less internationals between WC and EC finals, but they can be meaningful friendlies. Problem is that UEFA wouldn’t wear it, I don’t think.

    3. Number of club games – well the big clubs don’t help themselves with tours both at the end of season and pre-season. The other question is whether you need two domestic cups, I suppose. Thing is, for all clubs not in Europe, they have far more mid week slots available than the top 6, I suppose. So you might want to consider saying that the League Cup isn’t contested by those playing in Europe. That would even things up a bit and give a few more teams a chance to win something.

    Personally, I’m of the opinion you should have an EPL of 16 clubs and EPL2 South + North of 22 clubs each. That’s about the natural limit of ‘biggish clubs in England’. Below that you could regionalise again and have a ‘League 2 North + South’ with two promoted and two who play off the 3rd from bottom in each league.

    You still keep some kind of aspirational pyramid, you spread the EPL riches a bit more so that relegation isn’t quite the disaster it’s going to be and the top teams only play 30 league matches a season.

    That way, you’d cut about 10 games a season from a club like Arsenal give or take. You could have a mid-winter break from 2nd – 23rd Jan or so and maybe have the 3rd Round of the FA Cup on Boxing Day and the 4th Round as the first weekend back (so real lazy buggers could throw the third round to get an extra week on the beach in January).

    If you wanted it to work, you’d have to find a way to divvy up the cash to EPL2 properly, because otherwise no club getting promoted would ever survive. And you might have to have a decision at the end of each season which 22 would be North and which 22 South, because sods law says that fairly regularly the two relegated clubs would be northern or southern. The midlands would migrate according to necessity.

    As for the NFL Pedro, it’s a bit more than 16 games in reality. It’s 16 ‘regular season games’, with up to 4 more to get to the Superbowl and pre-season games as well. It’s probably a 20 – 25 game season in reality. And that’s in 5 -6 months, not 9-10 months, as football now is. Baseball has north of 150 games a season…..

    And the reality of the NFL TV market is that the home market is 500 million people: that’s a very big advertising budget for TV companies to go after. You could do that with a European Super League (since the European population is similar to that of North America), but it’s less feasible for smaller clubs.

    The difficultly with the big European teams saying they would ‘organise their own World Cup’ is that it wouldn’t be a World Cup, it would be ‘the Big Clubs deciding who’s allowed to play in a World Cup’. As things currently stand, any registered player can get picked for their national side. With the proposal of Arsenal and Man Utd ‘owning’ part of the World Cup, you don’t have to be Einstein to say that Theo Walcott would get picked before Harry Kane, irrespective of merit. That’s not what a World Cup is supposed to be about.

    Big clubs get a huge benefit from FIFA’s development programmes in the developing world, because they get their hands on players very cheap and make a great deal of money out of them. Because they value development work at £3000 a year, they don’t see that. But I do. Man City didn’t pay to develop Yaya Toure back in Africa, did they? FIFA’s money no doubt helped. People need to open their eyes and realise that clubs are propaganda vehicles in the main. They don’t argue from facts, they argue from interests. The facts on who pays for football development is a great deal more complex than Arsene Wenger makes out…..

    Whatever, I do think that 2020 is the time when a new ‘football settlement’ needs to be agreed by, because I think most are in agreement that it can’t go on the way it is at the moment…..

    Thing is, that settlement should not be imposed by a small cabal of big clubs, because they don’t represent the global football family…….

  9. Redtruth

    I thought players were supposed to be fitter and faster compared to players 30 years ago yet here we are whinging about the amount of games players sre being asked to play

  10. MidwestGun

    Well, I’d have to agree Coquelin has been more productive then Arteta. Probably a lot to do with age and tackling ability and timing.
    However, one thing the stats don’t show is the Spanish dna that Arteta has, that ability to make yourself always available for a pass late in the match, to control the match by taking the sting out of it and rhythmic short passes. Call it tippy tappy or whatever but sometimes its needed late in a match as a defensive measure to take the sting out of the game.
    Coquelin to this point doesn’t quite have that its offset a bit by having Cazorla there. That Spanish dna thing.
    Anyhow, it was clear to me that Arteta hasn’t been useful in this regard for about 2 or 3 years because he doesn’t have the legs to get forward and make himself available for those passes anymore as well as get back to cover.
    Resigning him and making him our Captain is beyond ridiculous to me.
    Coquelin is clearly the way forward and I expect he will develop the ability to sense when the game needs to have a bit of passing combos.
    Really happy with him to be honest.

  11. Nasri's Mouth

    Carts: Spain v Belgium has been cancelled…I doubt ISIS are vexed at that.

    The attack wasn’t in Spain or Belgium though.

    This is a way for France to show some solidarity. It’s not perfect, no doubt there are Hindus waking up to badly spelt graffiti on their homes, but you can only control what is in your control

  12. Cesc Appeal

    Coq is arguably our most important midfielder as we don’t have another like him, for next season though I’d like to see him, Ramsey and then a buy at CM as our options, with a youngster in the mix as well whether internal (Bielik etc) or a buy.

    I do think Wenger ignores that CM core and it’s so vital to a team.

  13. London Gunner

    I hope we bomb the shit out of ISIS.

    Issue is after we do that will there just be another form of ISIS to spring up from the ashes? If so what do we actually achieve?

    In a odd really twisted way I kind of have a form of respect for Saddam. He had the totalitarian power to withhold all these Islamic Extremist forces that were bubbling under the surface.

    He was the lesser of two evils.

    One part of me thinks the middle east/Muslim world just aren’t ready for democracy they are to behind the times, that instead maybe a powerful totalitarian figure is what they need to keep them from going full ape shit.

    However another part of me thinks its unfair for the civilised middle eastern’s who are ahead of the curve to live under such a draconian system and then deny them access to Europe when they flee to more civilized land.

    However I don’t think we have the infrastructure to take in these immigrants and they represent a significant security threat as well as us taking them in may actually bring down the quality of life for the average Britain. If we start supporting such a large community with our taxes.

    At the same time how can we leave Children and Women to fend for themselves?

    Perhaps we should take in women/children and train the men up in warfare and send them to fight in Syria for their country.

    Another massive issue is the fact whether we take ISIS down their will always be the original powerful special interests in the gulf state willing to fund the next ISIS.

    How do we get these funders and eradicate them? They are obscenely powerful and rich Saudi/Kuwait and Qatar peoples. We need to along with America assert pressure on these countries but we are so dependent on oil they have us eating out of their palms.

  14. Cesc Appeal

    Very much looking forward to English attempts at the La Marseillaise. Lots of humming and mouthing I think, but the spirit will be there!

  15. MidwestGun

    Cesc –
    Ya… I’d like an Isco. Versatile and the heir apparent in the Spanish side to Santi. I think its important to keep a bit of Spanish flair. Sure players from other countries can learn it. Ozil played at RM long enough. But I think Spanish youth must learning proper spacing and passing at a super young age until it’s second nature.
    If you watch kids play its not inheritantly in their nature to spread out and pass the ball. What happens is every kid wants to be a ball hog and dribble and dribble. Not get open for a pass. So you get swarms of kids and the biggest fastest kids end up dominating the match. Never been to Spain to watch their development programs but it must be top notch in regards to coaching that out of kids.
    Hahaha got side -tracked but ya I agree would like to see cm option as well as a potential attacking midfielder added.

  16. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    I read something a long time ago that British kids play on pitches that are too big, essentially it encourages lump ball. Really you want smaller pitches so you learn close control, good passing and good vision/intelligence.

    Wouldn’t mind an Isco or a Gotze sort, but more for RM, keep an eye on how Fekir does after injury as well. For the centre players like Xhaka who we’ve been linked with are more what I would like, good distributor, but still very physical, him and Ramsey, nice and physical, decent distribution, loads of energy, then Ozil and a RM as flair, creators, pace with Sanchez and then an upgrade at ST. That would do me.

  17. MidwestGun

    In regards to the match today, I don’t think ISIS gives a crap but I think it is important for people to be able to show support and feel like there is still some degree of openess in society where we can stage sporting events without life becoming a scared police state. So as far as showing ISIS anything don’t think it matters but it’s important for the general populace, imo.
    As for the actual match, nobody is gonna care what happened or the score is in a years time.

  18. Nasri's Mouth

    london gunner: Issue is after we do that will there just be another form of ISIS to spring up from the ashes? If so what do we actually achieve?

    That’s one of the major issues. Whether we have the stomach for the long haul is debatable.

    As for immigrants being a significant security threat, that’s not really true. The threat from existing terrorists on home soil is considerably larger.

    You can’t really split up families, it doesn’t work.

    It’s also important to point out that as a country we make an overall profit on immigrants. Refugees are a little different of course, but these are people trying to make a life for themselves. In the long term they’ll contribute to society

  19. London Gunner

    Nasri

    Refugees can’t work by law, so they are a drain on the economy.

    Why can’t you split up families?

    Surely we can say to the male refugees we will take in your women, children and elderly so they will be safe and secure.

    However you (the male) will be sent to Syria armed and trained to fight ISIS.

    This way we are protecting the most vulnerable migrants and keeping our country safe in terms of security. Whilst also helping to build up and army to fight our enemies.

    I think we could play on these men to make them want to fight for their country knowing because of their actions their family members are safe.

    If however they refuse to fight well then unfortunately we wont take in any of their family.

  20. MidwestGun

    Cesc –
    Interesting, I know kids here play on smaller pitches up until a certain point. But my experience is that the coaching here isn’t up to par. Way too much emphasis on shooting and running drills. Everyone wants to score. Cone drills and passing, close dribbling control ..,., aren’t really utilized until teenage development, been my experience here. Hence why we never have been good at developing a top classs number 10 here historically.
    And fluent team passing isn’t really a educational thing until too late in the process here, imo.

  21. Nasri's Mouth

    london gunner: Refugees can’t work by law, so they are a drain on the economy.

    Immediately yes, but in the long term, we’d want to integrate them.

    Keeping them in camps is also a drain on the economy, and it’s not really a long term solution at all. Sooner rather than later, you’re going to get a lot of disgruntled families sitting around outside tents.

    London gunner: Why can’t you split up families?

    Isn’t it obvious ? Firstly the parents wish to stay together, secondly it’s not great for the child, (we’re trying to make things better for them after all) and thirdly, if we’re trying to integrate them into our society, we’re simply bringing in a lot of single parent families.

    London gunner: However you (the male) will be sent to Syria armed and trained to fight ISIS.

    Speak to pretty much anyone in the armed services and they’ll tell you that conscripts are the last thing they want to work with.

    Much better to utilise the skills these guys have already got, in our country, rather than spend millions training and equipping them to do a role they don’t want to do, and might not be any bloody good at.

  22. London Gunner

    Karim

    I know its an awful situation, but maybe they could carve out a particular area (possibly on the border of Turkey) from which they could use as a headquarters to expand from. Like the Kurds in Iraq who have little support from the Iraq army and fight ISIS directly.

    The US/England could arm and train them and teach them Guerilla warfare tactics. With us holding there families its unlikely they would desert or join ISIS.

  23. Nasri's Mouth

    Germany Holland has just been cancelled

    It might just be because Holland are so bad that Germany don’t want to play them, but…

  24. Nasri's Mouth

    london gunner: I know its an awful situation, but maybe they could carve out a particular area

    I can’t imagine a particular country agreeing to that. Firstly, I doubt they’ve got the infrastructure to house them. Secondly, it would mean allowing foreign soldiers (NATO/USA) onto their soil and having their own military base. Thirdly, guerilla warfare isn’t what we need, and training people to do SAS style missions is massively expensive, takes years, AND the percentage that are actually good enough to do is very very small

  25. karim

    ” With us holding there families its unlikely they would desert or join ISIS. ”

    I was kind of agreeing until then.
    What do you mean exactly, that they’re cowards or that they don’t give a damn about us ?

  26. London Gunner

    “Speak to pretty much anyone in the armed services and they’ll tell you that conscripts are the last thing they want to work with. Much better to utilise the skills these guys have already got, in our country, rather than spend millions training and equipping them to do a role they don’t want to do, and might not be any bloody good at.”

    Tell that to the Americans who had their arses handed to them in Vietnam war against Paddy farmers.

    You can train civilians to fight effectively its been happening for centuries. Especially when said Civilians are fighting for their own home lands.

    Also we could utilize their skills in our country but it could cause a great unemployment crisis among the local British population.

    “Keeping them in camps is also a drain on the economy, and it’s not really a long term solution at all. Sooner rather than later, you’re going to get a lot of disgruntled families sitting around outside tents.”

    I mean you can integrate the women and children who wont represent a threat.

    “Isn’t it obvious ? Firstly the parents wish to stay together, secondly it’s not great for the child, (we’re trying to make things better for them after all) and thirdly, if we’re trying to integrate them into our society, we’re simply bringing in a lot of single parent families.”

    Well its better for the child then living in Syria…
    We are trying to make things better not perfect.
    Single parents can integrate into society just fine if anything I can see them integrating better without Husbands who would force them to stay in at all times and not allow them to speak to other adult males that aren’t direct relatives.

    We would then focus on getting those children a great education and in time after the husbands have served their tour we could reintegrate the families. Or if problems in Syria are resolved they can move back there.

    At the end of the day the war in Syria will only be resolved by the people themselves not outside forces. The Syrians need to part of the war/solution so that what ever is left after the war is a real movement of Syrian people not another puppet American backed regime that will crumble as soon as america withdraw.

  27. karim

    Do you know why Belgium / Spain has just been cancelled ?
    One of the perpetrators of last Friday’s events has been spotted near the stadium………

  28. MidwestGun

    Well the refugee situation is heartbreaking but tough for a government. I know here at least it isn’t that people don’t want us to take in some refugees because in general people have compassion it’s that nobody here trusts the vetting process. How do you do a background check on someone with no identification,no paper trail with regards to work history or criminal background, and most likely doesn’t speak any of the predominant languages here? Don’t know what a good solution is, honestly.

  29. Nasri's Mouth

    London gunner: Tell that to the Americans who had their arses handed to them in Vietnam war against Paddy farmers.

    Well, ask American army personnel whether they’d rather have well trained troops that volunteered or hastily trained conscripts. Then think what’s going to happen when hundreds of refugees get killed in a war they didn’t want any part of. Perfect propaganda for anyone wanting new recruits for the next uprising.

    london gunner: You can train civilians to fight effectively its been happening for centuries. Especially when said Civilians are fighting for their own home lands.

    You can, but you tend to lose an awful lot of them, AND it takes a lot of time.

    You also need to remember, these are the ones that are trying to escape the conflict. If they wanted to fight, they would have joined the rebels.

    They didn’t.

    Sorry, but there are far too many holes in your argument

  30. salman

    Having a thin squad is always going to run key players into the ground. Its not rocket science but for some reason Wenger chooses to ignore this fact. Same story every year.

  31. London Gunner

    Karim

    I am not implying they are innate cowards, but I can imagine war is scary as fuck.
    There is bound to be deserters just as their would with British people in a similar situation.

    I am just saying knowing that their families are provided for and our safe because of their direct actions in fighting in Syria would be a massive incentive to keep on fighting.

    Also

    Situation A

    UK/America/France invade Syria wipe out ISIS and Assad, erect a democratic government what happens when they withdraw? That government crumbles and the Terrorist psycho religious extremists take over.

    Situation B

    UK/America/France fund a real Syrian Army largely made up of male migrants with everything to fight for. We help in limited ways and perhaps even put boots on soils in a limited capacity.

    We let these Syrians set up their own government and actually make sure they have an extremely well trained and well armed army unlike the Iraqi Army which is was a joke.

    The thing is with Situation B we need to start the training now rather than later because the soon we start the better they would be. We will also need large numbers and where else can we find them but the millions of migrants turning up in europe.

  32. karim

    London

    Thanks for the clarification, appreciate.

    A suspicious package has been found near the stadium where Holland / Germany was about to take place, so they decided to cancel it as well.

  33. London Gunner

    Nasri Mouth

    What’s your solution to take on all the migrants? That’s completely unfeasable we don’t have the infrastructure for a start.

    It also does represent a security threat and not just in terms of terrorism but crime as well.

    If you take in allot of strangers without knowing anything about them and having virtually no parameters its a recipe for disaster.

    Who said hastily train them? How about train them over an effective time frame? Basic training is only 14 weeks that’s 3 and a half months. Give them a year of training and that’s much much more.

    If ISIS can train an army in a couple of years that’s capable of taking over large parts of syria and Iraq do you not think the combined might of america/Uk and france can’t? I reckon we could.

    “You also need to remember, these are the ones that are trying to escape the conflict. If they wanted to fight, they would have joined the rebels.”

    Well by taking in their families and keeping them safe we give them a real incentive to fight. They won’t have incentive to fight if they know they can just come and live in Europe no questions asked.

  34. Nasri's Mouth

    @london gunner

    We’re chucking a load of money to keep refugee camps open in areas around Syria. All you’re doing is keeping large crowds of very frustrated people in small enclosed areas with pretty much nothing to do. They’re basically in a holding pattern. In 6 months, they’ll still be in the same position.

    If countries could be persuaded I’d bring in as many refugees as could be accommodated in each one. While some countries have taken in large amounts, others have not. There is space for a lot more.

    Are they a security threat ? Yes to a degree, but the much greater threat is from existing nationals, 2nd and 3rd generation. Added to that, while the security checks to get into Greece etc. are pretty rudimentary, we can check a little deeper before allowing them into the UK as we’re not part of the Schengen agreement.

    Is there a risk of criminality ? Yes again, to a degree, but it’s pretty minor, these are people fleeing a war zone who believe their lives are in danger. Despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe, they tend to be more determined to make a living for themselves.

    We could give them basic training and send them into war, but that’s basically just knowing which end of the gun is the most dangerous, and we don’t really want to wait a year or more. Added to that, they’ll still have zero combat experience. Added to that the logistical element of having to set up new fighting units, with all the infrastructure, and command structure required. It’d be extremely expensive.

    ISIS were able to take over large areas of Syria and Iraq because there was little or no resistance. Their soldiers were often already combat trained.

    And if we take in the women and children, what are we then going to do with them when the fathers and husbands get killed ? Do we then send them back when the war is ended, where their future is going to be rather bleak, or will we owe them a life over here?

    We already have the military capability to take out ISIS. That’s not an issue. Using existing trained NATO, American and Russian forces,it would be relatively easy.

    The problem will come when ISIS is defeated, because all their supporters, their fighters, etc. will still be around in the background. The country will be utterly lawless in large parts, and there will be countless rebel units who after years of fighting think they deserve a slice of control.
    If Russia can persuade Iran that Assad needs to go, then there’s a chance that some form of government can remain, which would be a start, but the rebuilding will be a massive job

  35. Cesc Appeal

    NM

    Apparently a vehicle bomb disguised as a rescue truck. Really are no depths this scum won’t sink to, maximum casualties, total disregard for who they kill.

  36. Nasri's Mouth

    @Cesc Appeal

    Yeah, though I don’t think there has been official confirmation yet, so hard to know what’s happening. Still, if it is true, it again shows a significant amount of organisation and logistics

  37. Cesc Appeal

    How much did Spurs pay for Alli, £10 Million? They’re going to be laughing when United buy him for £50 Million next summer.

    Seriously though, looks a real talent does Alli, big lad as well, moves well, good energy, likes a physical battle and his technique isn’t bad either.

    Henderson, Dier, Alli gives us some solid, energetic, physical options in the middle against the top, top opposition.

  38. tunnygriffboy

    I don’t think we should be training anyone. The middle east is awash with fighters we have trained and armed in the past. A lot now fight against us.

    Re bombing, it won’t work. Isis will use children, women or anyone as human shields. The only way is feet on the ground in Syria. We have no appetite for it. The vacuum we have created in the region through ill advised foreign policy has allowed Isis to flourish. Turkish troops would be the best bet if we could persuade them but realistically the only country bar the USA with the resources to do is Russia. Putin wants to help Assad as he gets another ally in the region along with Iran and he’s not hapy with his jet being brought down

    If we had Stalin as an ally then we need to at least talk with Putin. He won’t be as surgical in his attack as Nato would be. The whole region is a clusterf.ck after dictators were removed with no plans to help country post removal. Hugely sad.

    My condolences to Karim, other French posters and the people of Paris

    Ps All international friendlies bar the ones post season leading into major competitions should be banned. Ludicrous.

  39. MidwestGun

    Match going about like expected to be honest, France a little too emotional perhaps.
    Not too sure about that midfield selection tho. Matuidi,Cabaye,Schneiderlin? Little too defensive and not the greatest creativity. Really,glad it could go off without a hitch, so far. Intro, was pretty cool.

  40. London Gunner

    Nasri Mouth

    “We’re chucking a load of money to keep refugee camps open in areas around Syria. All you’re doing is keeping large crowds of very frustrated people in small enclosed areas with pretty much nothing to do. They’re basically in a holding pattern. In 6 months, they’ll still be in the same position.”

    It will cost more money to take them in and house them far more.

    “If countries could be persuaded I’d bring in as many refugees as could be accommodated in each one. While some countries have taken in large amounts, others have not. There is space for a lot more.”

    Its not a solution a temporary band aid that will tear off under the pressure of refugee numbers.

    “Is there a risk of criminality ? Yes again, to a degree, but it’s pretty minor, these are people fleeing a war zone who believe their lives are in danger. Despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe, they tend to be more determined to make a living for themselves.”

    You have no idea what kind of people they are. Unless you are supposing that Syria is some magical population that happens to have no criminals. Criminals as well as law abiding civilians will be fleeing Syria.

    “ISIS were able to take over large areas of Syria and Iraq because there was little or no resistance. Their soldiers were often already combat trained.”

    Actually a large number of them weren’t military trained and I am not supposing we let these Syrians armies fight by themselves. They will be lead by experienced personnel and backed up in the battle ground by American/EU troops. As for resistance their was large numbers it was just ineffective.

    “And if we take in the women and children, what are we then going to do with them when the fathers and husbands get killed ? Do we then send them back when the war is ended, where their future is going to be rather bleak, or will we owe them a life over here?”

    Either or depending on circumstances. France after world war 2 had a lack of men compared to Women they still managed to become one of the greatest nations today.

    “The problem will come when ISIS is defeated, because all their supporters, their fighters, etc. will still be around in the background. The country will be utterly lawless in large parts, and there will be countless rebel units who after years of fighting think they deserve a slice of control.
    If Russia can persuade Iran that Assad needs to go, then there’s a chance that some form of government can remain, which would be a start, but the rebuilding will be a massive job”

    This is precisely why we need to recruit Syrians this needs to be as much their war as a western intervention otherwise we are destined to fail. They indeed have to be at the centre of it. Without them involved in the solution which involves warfare their will be no permanent resolution.

    Lots of UK conscripts probably didn’t want to die in the Second world war, but they did and they will never be forgotten for what they sacrificed for our freedom. The Syrians need to stand and fight for their freedom. Right now they haven’t had a chance because they haven’t had funds/training or backing.

    Also my point is basic training is 14 weeks if they had 12 months training rather than 14 weeks they could be fit and ready for war.

    In fact in the US military after basic training recruits can be deployed immediately a year and a half wait is seen as a very long wait between joining the military completing basic and MOS and then being deployed.

    So it isn’t rushed.

    Also If we westerns get involved without a legitimate Syrian force involved by the time we win the war, the Syrians who will need to be trained to take over the country will be so behind the curve, however, if they are actually involved in the war in a key role they will have learnt the lessons, gained experience and have the ability to maintain security of their country. It also gives way more legitimacy towards the war if Syrians are involved rather than just once again another western intervention.

  41. London Gunner

    Tunny

    “I don’t think we should be training anyone. The middle east is awash with fighters we have trained and armed in the past. A lot now fight against us.”

    If we keep these migrants male soldiers families as ransom they can’t turn on us.
    We will have to much leverage on them.

    I am saying train and equip migrants and send them to fight in exchange we look after their families.

    We could build a force of millions out of all these migrants and they would owe us the safety of their families.

    We then could have limited UK troops on the ground in Syria but more based on execution then delivery, keeping out of the hot zones so to speak, but lending expert precision skill in a limited capacity when absolutely imperative.

  42. Zeus

    BREAKING NEWS: Terror in Germany as football match against Holland is cancelled over ‘concrete’ bomb threat and reports of an AMBULANCE packed with explosives.

    Courtesy of the dailymail.

    These extremist cunts are really going in.

  43. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Right I spy with my little eye ….

    How many young talented players the arsenal scouts have missed
    P is for pogba
    M is for martial
    A is for allli
    S is for sterling …

    We can read in a few years of how close we were to signing them ,,,,

    Wenger gone .

  44. Nasri's Mouth

    London gunner: It will cost more money to take them in and house them far more.

    Not when you have existing infrastructure. Building entire new camps in the middle of nowhere and then maintaining them over long periods gets very expensive, because you end up having to make permanent settlements with full services. Refugee camps are only really short term. Electricity, Water supply, Drainage, etc. are very expensive.

    London gunner: You have no idea what kind of people they are.

    Neither do you, you’re suggesting Syria was full of of crims. Immigrants tend to be no less law abiding than the existing nationals

    London gunner: Actually a large number of them weren’t military trained and I am not supposing we let these Syrians armies fight by themselves. They will be lead by experienced personnel and backed up in the battle ground by American/EU troops

    A lot of ISIS were ex Sadaam forces or existing mercenaries. They’ve now had several years of additional experience. You’re suggesting chucking green troops in against them

    And you can’t just add in a load of conscripts into an existing army.
    Each piece of the army is designed to have the right command structure based on numbers. Its set up to have the right level of support units, logistics, etc.

    What are you planning to do, add in 1 Syrian non-English speaking fighter into each platoon? That’ll work well

    If you’re going to send in large numbers of Syrian troops, you would need to create entire sections, (dependent on quantity of troops).

    London gunner: France after world war 2 had a lack of men compared to Women they still managed to become one of the greatest nations today.

    Naff example really. Of course it’s possible, but we don’t NEED to do it, it’s an extra issue we don’t need to have.

    London gunner: Lots of UK conscripts probably didn’t want to die in the Second world war

    You’re right, BUT that doesn’t take away from the fact that army leaders simply don’t want conscripts, AND we don’t need them. We ALREADY have the military numbers .

    London Gunner: Also my point is basic training is 14 weeks if they had 12 months training rather than 14 weeks they could be fit and ready for war.

    Yes, and why do we have to wait a year, WHEN we ALREADY have the military numbers ?

    London Gunner: the Syrians who will need to be trained to take over the country will be so behind the curve,

    Well, they will, but the training is different. In fact you don’t really want fresh green troops that have just been in combat to be used in a peaceful police style operation, because they tend to be more trigger happy and often have built up resentment to perceived threats.

  45. Nasri's Mouth

    london gunner: We could build a force of millions out of all these migrants

    No we couldn’t.

    1) there aren’t the numbers available

    2) we don’t have the equipment

    3) we have the ability to train those types of numbers

  46. tunnygriffboy

    London

    If we take the women and children in then we will have a hell of a lot of dependents we’d have to look after.

    Where would we train the men ? Isis aren’t going to allow that to happen. You have Assad’s forces backed by Iran and Russia, you have the rebels backed by Nato who are becoming a dwindling force everyday and are split into numerous factions and just to make things worse Isis are fighting then both with help from the fanatics in SA. On top of that bombs are raining down on them from Russia, France etc. Not many Syrian men would fancy that

    I think we’ve armed and trained so many different factions along with the USA over the last 30 years I think we’d best leave alone before it bites us on the arse again. Only way to do it is troops on the ground but the result for ythe Syrian people will be horrific as Isis will butcher them even more. Isis will then melt away into the background or simply move to different areas or countries they have control over.

    There is no easy answer. Certainly I don’t think there is much appetitehere for sending troops in despite the PMs posturing. As I said I think Turkish forces would be the best being muslim and I don’t think the middle eastern people would appreciate more western intervention botching things up. I see Russia sorting it as best as could be but I’m afraid Isis is growing and here to stay

    More western intervention and increased anti Islam rhetoric from politicians, far right politicians and right wing press will disenfranchise moremuslims in the west. It’s what Isis wantas they hope the disenfranchisement will lead to more radicalisation.

  47. Nasri's Mouth

    @Zeus

    heehee. The latest sounds as though the rumours might have only been that, rumours.

    Hopefully so.

    The logistics and effort required to carry out the Paris attempts were pretty significant, but if the Hannover rumours were true, just days after the Paris attempts in an environment of heightened security, it’d need a hell of a lot of people behind the scenes in multiple countries.

  48. Nasri's Mouth

    Alexis starts

    On the one hand I’d kinda hoped he’d have a little niggle, on the other, pleased he’s fit.

    …assuming he is …eeeek

  49. London Gunner

    Nasri Mouth

    “Not when you have existing infrastructure. Building entire new camps in the middle of nowhere and then maintaining them over long periods gets very expensive, because you end up having to make permanent settlements with full services. Refugee camps are only really short term. Electricity, Water supply, Drainage, etc. are very expensive.”

    They can either be trained overseas. UK and America have training facilities and military camps all over the world particularity in the middle east. If we need to train some in our own domestic military bases. Fine.

    “A lot of ISIS were ex Sadaam forces or existing mercenaries. They’ve now had several years of additional experience. You’re suggesting chucking green troops in against themAnd you can’t just add in a load of conscripts into an existing army.
    Each piece of the army is designed to have the right command structure based on numbers. Its set up to have the right level of support units, logistics, etc.”

    A lot of them weren’t experienced either. You aren’t really getting it are you its not black and white. I am not saying only have an army of non experienced troops I am saying an army with mixed experienced levels. With a lot of the rank and file new recruits.

    You are stating the obvious of course you can’t train soldier into military generals or higher commissioned officers in a year I am not implying that.

    “What are you planning to do, add in 1 Syrian non-English speaking fighter into each platoon? That’ll work wellIf you’re going to send in large numbers of Syrian troops, you would need to create entire sections, (dependent on quantity of troops).”

    Or you could perhaps use the large amount of arabic speaking western military personnel…. We and America have been involved in wars for a decade in the middle east do you suppose their are no higher ranking/mid ranking western soldiers with a grasp of Arabic language. I’d be surprised if that was the case.
    Above and beyond that we could bring in military advisor’s/select troops from countries such as Turkey (who have a large portion of arabic speakers) who have an extreme gripe with ISIS and will want pay back.

    “You’re right, BUT that doesn’t take away from the fact that army leaders simply don’t want conscripts, AND we don’t need them. We ALREADY have the military numbers .”

    The point is Syrians have HAVE HAVE to be part of the solution. IF we were to defeat ISIS we would need a very well trained Syrian army to step in and take over at a later point? Why start the training after the war so the Syrians will be utterly unprepared and they wll crumble without assistance once the US/UK troops leave? Why not train these troops now so they have the experience and organisation to be prepared after a war and after a US/Uk withdrawal you have to plan way in advance with these things.

    Who says they don’t want will trained conscripts?

    We may have the numbers but why should we sacrifice British/american lives for another country? Why should Syrians not be part of the fight? Why must we do all the fighting for them? It’s unethical, immoral and unpracticable.

    “Well, they will, but the training is different. In fact you don’t really want fresh green troops that have just been in combat to be used in a peaceful police style operation, because they tend to be more trigger happy and often have built up resentment to perceived threats.”

    Of course the training is different, but there is also a whole lot of interconnection and transferable skills. Knowing how to keep an area secure is essential. They will learn this as soldiers, they will learn how to identify threats and be prepared for attack and be able to cope when attacks do take place.
    Which will essential as they will be under direct pressure when UK/US withdraw.

    We fucked up Iraq partly because their army was wholly untested and we left them with the biggest test.

  50. London Gunner

    Tunny

    We certainly do need to get the middle east/muslim stats to intervene in a military sense if not diplomatic.

    But I can only see Turkey getting involved if we and America do. They wont take on such a huge task by themselves and I would expect zero aid from the Gulf states who are generally evil self interested bastards who haven’t only allowed this to happen have actively supported ISIS.

  51. Nasri's Mouth

    London gunner: They can either be trained overseas.

    I’m talking about refugee camps vs taking refugees into countries.

    London gunner: I am saying an army with mixed experienced levels. With a lot of the rank and file new recruits.

    IT JUST DOESN’T WORK LIKE THAT!!! Armies are designed to have the right amount of command troops at each level of command, you can’t just ADD in quantities here and there.

    London Gunner: Or you could perhaps use the large amount of arabic speaking western military personnel….

    Translators tend to be just that, they don’t tend to be command personnel. We don’t have excess command personnel in the first place, let alone spare that ALSO speak Arabic.

    London Gunner: we could bring in military advisor’s/select troops from countries such as Turkey

    So British troops commanding Turkish troops commanding Syrian conscripts ? Not going to work.

    London gunner: Of course the training is different, but there is also a whole lot of interconnection and transferable skills

    No, not really. it’s a little like putting the Paras in to N.I. in a police like operation. You have soldiers who have just been in combat, just seen their mates die in front of them, and you’re asking them to keep the peace.

    London gunner: We fucked up Iraq partly because their army was wholly untested

    Kinda, but there’s much more to it than that. The training for the leaders wasn’t right, morale was poor, training for the troops was too short, and there were issues right from the very top with weak political leadership.

    I do agree involving the Syrians is a good idea, but the way to do it would to have Western troops teamed up with the moderate Syrian rebels, who ARE battle hardened, who DO have a command structure, who ARE already equipped to a degree, KNOW their enemies,

    Even that can be tricky, because even co-operation in ops between American and British forces isn’t always straightforward due to differing styles, but it’d be soooo much better than using 1000s of conscripted refugees..

    …which is just a really terrible idea.

  52. Leedsgunner

    Looks like Alexis scored for his country tonight… along with Vidal… 2-0 to Chile. I sure hope he doesn’t come back to us crocked… I was really hoping he would get a rest 🙁

  53. Sam

    It looks like people still don’t know what’s going on in the middle. You guys are talking about training rebels, which one?
    Its a Sunni Shia war n the west is totally irrelevant. The US/ UK only needed to supply weapons n maybe money. The outcome won’t benefit us whatsoever. If we defeated ISIS, Iran will takeover who are just as bad.
    Yes it’s the same war happening in Yemen n USA is supporting Sunni Saudis against Iranian backed Houthis, the same war spilling over in Lebanon, Bahrain n soon other countries will also join.
    I am surprised politicians n so called experts still wanna get involved

  54. Sam

    If you train Sunni rebels most will end up joining ISIS or at least cooperating with them. If you train Shia you are training Iranian militia.
    Only Saddam could build an army of Sunni, Shia n Christians that is gone now
    It’s time to get a F@ck out.
    It’s now Sunni Caliphate led by ISIS/ Saudi versus Shia empire led Iran.

  55. Sam

    If we could reverse or change anything?

    Keep Saddam n Gaddafi n get rid of sectarian genocidal maniac Bashar Assad

    World leaders did the opposite

  56. Bamford10

    One, Arteta was average at his best and never good enough for a team with ambition. Better on the ball and in distribution than Coquelin, but not enough class or athleticism.

    Two, this Sam character has told us that Benzema and Lewandowski — both world class — would be “flops” in the EPL. He rates Giroud higher. Which is to say, this person has no credibility. None .

  57. Sam

    Bamford,

    I am sure Falcao n Di Maria were so called World class before they play here.
    Let’s talk facts not fantasies, Benzema n lewandowski haven’t kicked a ball in the EPL. I wouldn’t waste my time comparing them with strikers who already tasted Robert huth’s boot . They should come here n score more goals than Soldado.
    Otherwise they can both F@ck off

  58. London Gunner

    Nasri

    Don’t really have the time to discuss this further, but

    “IT JUST DOESN’T WORK LIKE THAT!!! Armies are designed to have the right amount of command troops at each level of command, you can’t just ADD in quantities here and there.”

    I wasn’t proposing that. Fully fledged army with just the bottom level grunts consisting of Syrians. That way less British casualties, but we still have control over the way the war is waged.

    “No, not really. it’s a little like putting the Paras in to N.I. in a police like operation. You have soldiers who have just been in combat, just seen their mates die in front of them, and you’re asking them to keep the peace.”

    I am talking about the military after a major civil war you don’t just have police patrolling the streets you need a fully fledged army to maintain security. It will still be an amber alert situation, not coppers on the plod with doughnuts and coffee. Jheeze. You will need highly trained military operatives in such a tense dangerous situation.
    After the war curfews will be in place as well elements of martial law. You will simply need experienced soldiers not just to stop threats but to be seen as an active presence of Syrians actually making a difference and actually managing their company.

    “I do agree involving the Syrians is a good idea, but the way to do it would to have Western troops teamed up with the moderate Syrian rebels, who ARE battle hardened, who DO have a command structure, who ARE already equipped to a degree, KNOW their enemies,”

    How did they become battle hardened in the first place? Every solider has to start some where. I am not seeing send them in with no direction they will be lead by experienced professionals. We could also phase them in use them as auxiliary troops or blood them in minor skirmishes before we throw them into real battles.

    My idea is terrible rich coming from the guy whose answer is to take the whole of the Syrian nation into Europe that’s an absolutely ridiculous stance.

    I wouldn’t directly arm the rebels because they could turn out to be ISIS or defect to ISIS. The migrants however aren’t likely to be ISIS sympathisers since they are fleeing from them and have refused to join cause.

    We can

    A) arm, train, lead and support these Syrians who should be fighting for their country. Which leads legitimiacy for their right to govern their country after the war.

    B) Fight the war ourselves win with great cost to British lives and set up a democratic government that will be hated and seen as a puppet of the west. We can then withdraw leaving the ill preprepared and combat virgin Syrian forces out of their depth and see the country taken over by destruction from extremists

    C) We can do nothing aside from taking on all the immigrants which spur ISIS to more terrorist atrocities in our European cities compromises our security and creates massive social tension and division.

    I choose A. I choose Hope I choose a brighter future a self empowered one.

  59. Sam

    Obama strategy on Syria however flawed, still smarter than Putin.
    Putin’s macho attitude n strategy of bombing all the rebels opened many fronts n will get Assad thrown out sooner than expected.
    Assad currently holds only 14% he’ll need to make at least temporary truce with some rebels to survive.
    Non stop fighting with all the rebels throughout the winter will be costly for Assad

  60. Emiratesstroller

    Drug taking is clearly a massive problem in sport. In the case of football I suspect that it would be primarily associated with maintaining fitness and stamina rather than physical enhancement or performance.

    I think that the real point made by Wenger is the type of testing which is being undertaken rather than its frequency. What is coming out of athletics is that with testing advancements you can now identify abuse up to 10 years after it occurred.

    Moving onto last night’s match between England v France I think that it is fair to say that we learned little from the result. Clearly and understandably the French were not at the top of their game.

    However, if there is one player in Europe who would make a real difference to
    the performance of any team at the moment it is Pogba. You could see the real difference in France’s game when he arrived. What I would give to bring him
    to Arsenal?

    Also I thought that Gibbs had a decent game. We know that he is not the planet’s greatest defender, but I thought that he had a fairly disciplined performance and looked dangerous when going forward.

    Maybe the solution with Gibbs is to revert him back to playing on wing rather
    than fullback.

  61. Sam

    Giroud is nor world class but he tries his best to do the job for us
    Lewandowski n Benzema are not Neymar n Messi, just lucky twats who play for big clubs they are not even leaders like Henry was. It’s just ridiculous how they are praised here

  62. Sam

    If I look at the number of polish players failing to make it here I can only wish lewandowski stay the fuck out of arsenal. We even tried a polish German with 100s of cap n still failed. Not even gonna talk about the 2 bozo we had as goalkeepers
    Hopefully young bielik will make, yeah hopefully!!

  63. Bamford10

    Regarding the reports that Turkish fans booed the minute of silence for Paris and shouted “Allahu Akbar,” Turkish Arsenal supporter Memz Dogi has tweeted:

    “Allah allah allah allah bu nasıl Sevmek! Allah allah allah allah bu nasıl Gülmek! Relax people, its a Turkish love song” – @Memz_Dogi

  64. I am arsene

    Bamford

    I dont get the significance of his tweet. It really has nothing to do with the Turkish fans disgusting behaviour

  65. Uwot?

    Highbury ,they do know how to exterminate it though.good at that.sort of reminds you of a regime that operated circa 1939 – 45.minus the religious aspect though.or was it?

  66. underrated Coq

    Face it, majority of these Islamic nations are just backward. They spend their time and energy creating issues to fight among themselves and with others rather than focusing to build on their economy or their infrastructure.

  67. Rambo Ramsey

    you gotta feel for them kids. young,immature and naive with no knowledge of the world or the ability to think for themselves. they’re completely manipulated into human-killing machines!

  68. London gunner

    Underrated Coq

    Honestly it’s medieval behaviour.

    They are so far behind the curve.

    What people don’t understand Islam isn’t just a religion its a system of governance as well.

    Sharia law is utterly barbaric and that is true Islam the core of it.
    It’s whats held back and kept the Middle Eastern culture in the dark ages.

    Does anyone actually think if these people were budists or Confucists we would have that amount of chaos in the region.

    It’s obviously more than just religion that is at fault here, but the Islamic religion is the first limiting factor. If it was removed from the equation there might be over limits to seeking peace but they wouldn’t be as deep or severe.

  69. Alfie

    ““Allah allah allah allah bu nasıl Sevmek! Allah allah allah allah bu nasıl Gülmek! Relax people, its a Turkish love song” – @Memz_Dogi”

    Yeah cause that’s what Turkish fans are known for, the singing of love songs during football games………..

  70. Louis Almeida

    Drey, Alexis is one of the most iconic figures in Chilean football. He’s a national hero so it’s unrealistic to expect him not to play. Even the player himself will insists on playing

  71. Alfie

    ” Even the player himself will insists on playing”

    Agreed, but this isn’t Sunday league football. His on £150k pw and needs to realise that he cant sustain these levels constantly…….

  72. Highbury4ever

    “Yeah cause that’s what Turkish fans are known for, the singing of love songs during football games”
    lol (?)

  73. salparadisenyc

    Wished they were able to subdue that militant cunt whom blew herself up in order to cut a kidney out for Jonah Lomu or someone else in need of vital organs.

  74. Louis Almeida

    Alfie, yes I agree that Alexis should not overdo it. But then again, in most top teams they key players will play more often than not. How often does the likes of Aguero, Hazard, Silva, Cesc get rested? It would be interesting to know.

  75. Alfie

    “How often does the likes of Aguero, Hazard, Silva, Cesc get rested? It would be interesting to know.”

    True.

    And then you haver the likes of Terry/Messi et al who just never get injured (although Messi is now but you get what I mean……)