Arsenal Preview: Remember that little goat in the pen?

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I was e-mailing my Dad yesterday. I was saying I think tonight could be really bad. This feels like it could be a mauling. We’re the goat in the pen in Jurassic Park. Everything is fine, then the clouds encircle, then bang. It’s over. Goat all over the jeep.

There are major concerns ahead of the game. Like, the main one being half of our squad are dead.

Look at the state of this.

Screen Shot 2015-11-04 at 9.30.42 AM

I mean, that’s two centre backs away from being a pretty damn good team!

I was kind of ok that we might be able to grab a draw yesterday, now Bellerin is out and we have to resort to ridiculous jiggery pokery, I’m in a panic. Debuchy looked shite against Newcastle and Sheffield Wednesday, now he has to line up against Douglas Costa for an evening.

<Take moment to compute what that could mean>

So basically, I’m not very confident. I don’t see how we can deal with the high press, I don’t see how we’ll deal with the strain down a right hand side that might contain Joel Campbell and Debuchy… or worse, Kieran Gibbs. I don’t see how we’ll deal with the occasion. Especially when you consider the narrative of this evening centres around Bayern having their feelings hurt in the first leg.

We be like…



Still, crazier things have happened, right?

I mean, we went to the Bernabeu with Flamini at full back accompanied by Senderos, Campbell and Eboue. We kept a clean sheet there, right?!

So I guess for this evening, what we have to hope for is a blunt Bayern Munich, some fast sealant gelling going on with the boys and some serious fight.

Wenger dropped some interesting chat before the game about another ‘nearly signing‘ when talking about Pep.

“I met him at home when he was 30, 31. He wanted to play for Arsenal. I can’t remember why it didn’t happen.

“I had players like [Patrick] Vieira and [Emmanuel] Petit, who were still young then. He showed great personality when we talked. What I admire about him is that his team play very positively.”

I mean, it’s fantastic that now our ‘nearly squad’ of players now has a coach as well!

Pep has been predicting what will happen tonight, and you know what, he’s not wrong.

“Arsenal want to attack and build up but when you press Mertesacker and Koscielny, they don’t want to play,”

“They play long balls to Giroud. Also, if they lose the ball and we make two or three passes, Mertesacker doesn’t want to stay high up, so they go back in their box and defend there.

“Arsenal will try long balls to Giroud. Cech will not play the ball to defenders, he will try long balls to Giroud. We have to defend well and be ready for that.”

Apparently 20% of our passes in the first leg were long balls. Well, really, how else are you going to play? I think it was Bayern who defeated Klopps high press a few years ago playing the false 10… Martinez would power through the middle and take a long ball. They literally played over the high press. Which is sophisticated when it’s Pep, long ball scum tactics when it’s Sam Allardyce.

I think pretty much the only way we can play to day is to go over the top and hope that Giroud can slip in Sanchez. I mean, now I’m writing about beating Bayern with a long ball, I’m feeling confident.

No I’m not.

Wenger has predicted ‘uncomfortable moments.’ I think he must be talking about the moments in my underwear.

I fear.

Still, fear can bring the best out of players. It’s just 11 men vs 11 men. There’s not reason we can’t turn something around.

Just don’t look up..



But we’ll see, have a great day and enjoy the match from wherever you’re watching it!



881 Responses to “Arsenal Preview: Remember that little goat in the pen?”

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  1. Dusty Kart

    I echo your sentiment STV perhaps Wenger has a fetish for public beatings as he sure has taken a few over the years.

  2. Teddy

    Pedro and Kenyangunner,

    You guys can take off your goat now. We only trust in NorthenGunner and his lucky underpants B-)

  3. Wallace

    Bayern and Barca are the two best sides in Europe by a distance. no team in England gets anywhere near them. even with a full squad to choose from we still lose that game comfortably.

    all i’m hoping is that after that Spurs on Sunday will seem like a game against a pub side. certainly complacency, usually our achilles heel, won’t be a problem.

  4. Emiratesstroller

    Let’s not keep on making comparisons between ourselves and other teams in
    Europe. We know that our current squad is not good enough to play there at
    moment. The results apart from home game against Bayern prove it.

    However, we do have the possibility of competing for EPL Title and that should
    now be our focus. However, that can only happen if we get over our current
    injury crisis and then make some very important decisions in January.

    There are currently 6 players in squad who are not good enough to play in
    first team specifically Arteta,Rosicky,Flamini, Campbell, Chambers and probably Debuchy.

    There are currently also 6 players in squad who are injury prone in Gibbs,
    Wilshire,Walcott,Ox,Rosicky,Arteta who struggle to play 30 games a season
    when fit.

    So starting in January Arsenal need to start the process of replacing them in
    the squad. I would start with replacing Rosicky and Campbell.

    In summer I would replace Arteta, Flamini,Debuchy and at least one of our other injury prone players.

    That is 6 players over next two transfer windows. At least one can be replaced
    internally i.e. Debuchy by Jenkinson.

    Bringing in 5 new players should be within the compass of Arsenal when you
    consider how little money has been spent so far this season. Surely Arsenal
    can afford to spend £100 million over two financial years when you consider
    that we have now £60 million in sponsorship and tv money is being increased.

    That means that over next two transfer windows at least 6 players need to be

  5. Dusty Kart

    It doesn’t matter who we recruit Wenger will ruin them anyway grind them into the floor injury after injury can’t be coincidence can it?

  6. Dusty Kart

    Wenger saying we can still qualify?
    What’s the fucking point we don’t recruit we don’t need the money any excuse to get publicly humiliated again.

  7. STV

    I hope we qualify because euefa league is a joke and there is a chance we go to very deep in to the competition before eliminated. Going around crap grounds in remote cities, ruining our pL chances and depleting the squad. Plus Thursday night football is a fucking awkward.

  8. Emiratesstroller

    Dusty Kart

    What do you expect him to say?

    The reality is we are out of Champions League and Wenger needs now to focus on remaining two domestics.

    What we learned yesterday is that our defending was poor in absence of Bellerin and Koscielny and Coquelin needs more support defensively in midfield
    so that I would start looking at that problem first.

    You cannot ignore that we have performed badly in absence of those three

  9. tunnygriffboy

    So the team that was put out last night shouldn’t have got a mauling ? Even with a full side and injury free bench we were going to struggle at Bayern. Any time would especially as they were smarting from having lost at the Emirates

    We need to be realistic. We are now where near winning the CL. We could be competitive with a lot of sides if we had more or less a fit squad.

    We need to be aiming to be proper competitors in the PL first. If we are not at the top of the tree here how can we do it in Europe.

    What is annoying is losing to inferior sides due to selection and attitude.

    We should go for the PL but once again we have as good a side on the injury bench as we can put on the field. Seriously worried about the spurs game. Not only do we have an injury crisis but players have had to play every minute of every game without any rest as there’s no one to replace them

    Have to get some reinforcements in January as too many of our players are injury prone. On paper we have a squad that can compete in PL. In reality that doesn’t happen.

    Somehow we have to scrape a win on Sunday but looks like we’ll be without Bellerin and Kos. Nightmare

  10. Dusty Kart


    Not disputing that but what’s the point of qualifying ?

    More money for the coffers how much does a club need not to spend?

    Why do we go through the same injury crisis year after year coincidence don’t think so matey.

  11. tunnygriffboy


    That support for Coquelin in games last night is vital.

    With a more or less a fully fit squad I would be confident we an challenge for the title

    Wilshere and Welbeck have been out. Ox form has been patchy. Ramsey has played 17 matches in 12 weeks. His hamstring goes. He covers so much ground he needs to be rested now and again

    Debuchy has been horrendous meaning Bellerin has had to play everyday. Think of the ground he covers up and down the wing. Groin problem

    10 players out, we have to cobble a team together for Sunday. Hopefully then get Bellerin, Kos, Arteta, Ox, Ramsey, Walcott back after international break

  12. tunnygriffboy

    Dusty cart

    The point is that we not only get the money but also attracts players. Last season and this we have a squad good enough to reach the last 8. We are a better side than Olympiacos, Zagreb and Monaco. That is the hugely irritating thing.

  13. Dusty Kart

    Attract who Tunny we have a manager who refuses to spend and can’t find better than what we have …………..

  14. Emiratesstroller


    The decline of Debuchy was unforeseen, but most of the other problems in our squad were well known.

    Noone apart from Wenger would have retained services of Arteta,Rosicky and
    Flamini. You might argue to keep Arteta because of his future prospects as a
    coach at club.

    Otherwise to face the annual catalogue of injuries to players I listed is something that the club needs now to address. Surely the club learned something
    from Diaby!!

    Keeping 5-6 injury prone players on books means that you overplay the other members of the squad. Walcott may be a decent player when fit, but when he gets injured it means that Giroud is overloaded, which is exactly what has happened over the last 2 years.

  15. Wengers plastic bottle

    If bellerin has a groin problem why rush him back to early for him to possibly tweak it again. The league can’t be won with our depleted squad.

    Coquelin and Krowychiak however u spell his name would of been a good defensive unit together

  16. tunnygriffboy


    We’ve attracted Alexis and Ozil. Oh and Cech

    If we push for the title that is likely to attract more

    Problem is the bad run in CL. If we end up in Europa and we have a good run thatwillattract attention as well. It is however a double edged sword. With the injuries we have it’ll mean more games for our key players. If we get our injuries sorted ( sic ) then it’s a good competition to give our squad members a run out.

    Win or be very close to winning PL is an attraction.

  17. Dusty Kart


    What’s your stance on what’s going on at the moment are you happy with what you are paying top dollar for?

    I know I come across as a Wenger hater but I’m not I’m just a normal guy who loves my club with a passion I just think we need a change in direction its either Wenger or Kroenke out?

    Who’s to blame don’t know anymore someone is sanctioning these injury prone players into signing long term contracts? wonder who is ? we have learnt nothing from the Diaby fiasco the list just goes on paying over the odds for permacrocks is not the way forward let’s hope we can cobble a team together for the NLD .

  18. Moray

    Tunny, we need to sign more than one player per year to have a proper squad capable of competing for anything better than a minor cup competition, particularly with the years of neglect taken into consideration. More so when those signings generally are made in he less critical areas of the pitch.

  19. Moray

    We would have got 12m + for Campbell after the World Cup, but Wenger decided to hang on to him and not to play him. People talk about his canniness in the transfer markets but I’m afraid it’s all something of the distant past. Plus it’s really unfair on the boy, regardless of the fists of cash we must be playing him

  20. Wallace


    “we need to sign more than one player per year to have a proper squad capable of competing for anything better than a minor cup competition.”

    you had a look at the league table recently?

  21. Moray

    Wallace, we are frequently up there or thereabouts in November as I recall. I’m talking about a squad capable of winning something come the end of the year and sustaining a title challenge. What makes it worse is that our team can beat anyone on their day but our squad is insufficient to cope with a Long campaign

  22. Ughelligunner

    I don’t understand, we all predicted the outcome away and knowing kos and belerin would be out, it was expected that we would be trashed. Why the moaning. Its like knowing your child’s deficiency and complaining about it when there isn’t a solution.

    We are no where near bayern. Look at their substitution yesterday, even our injured player cant match them.

    Spending the 200m in the bank wouldn’t even get their first team. We all knew first leg was because we were complete and we had to dig in.

    Pls quit the whining and reserve it for Sunday.

  23. Ughelligunner

    Moray, are you Campbell agent! And if he was sold and made it, you would be the first to throw insults at wenger for not keeping him.

    Some have started whining over Podolsky for crying out loud

  24. Moray

    Ughelli, losing to Bayern on its own is not the issue, though I would argue we are at least as capable financially as they are of competing g for players and 5-1 is a humiliation. Losing to the other teams in group however makes it unacceptable that we don’t even put up a fight.

    There was a time in Arsenals not too distant past when we would have gone into that game expecting a result.

  25. Dusty Kart

    Fuck it I’m going up b&q and getting half a dozen bags of sand and gonna bury me head in it same as others on here.

    Champions in November haha good one.

  26. tunnygriffboy


    Yes we need to be adding every year. Cech was a brilliant signing but we should have bought at least another DM to play with or compete with Coquelin. I can understand the striker situation this summerbut it could have been sorted previously.

    Arteta, Flamini and Roscky will go this summer so I would expect two top quality midfielders to come in for them. I would also expect Campbell to go and a wide man to come in.


    I think that there are signs of progression in the PL this season. We arecapable of beating anyone on the day if we have a rwasonable amount of players to chose from. If we can get players back after the international break and some around Christmas there is no reason why we can’t give it a good go.

    We are as strongas we have been for a while. Get through the spurs game somehow ( which will be tough with the injuries ) and get players back after international break and we play WBA, Norwich, Sunderland and Villa before the City game. If we can get through Christmas being close to City then we have the window and Wilshere , Welbeck and Rosicky back. All of which will give us more options

    Not confident of beating spurs with the side we put out yesterday.

  27. Moray

    The fact that many supporters are so resigned to the fact we just got buttfucked 5-1 really shows what has happened to the club. Ditto that we have nine players sitting on the injury bench. You’re right ughelli, it’s nothing really unusual. And I suppose we can always say “what if”…

  28. Ughelligunner

    Arsenal fans are not different from the other teams supporters, but at least they know when they are beaten fair and square and they take the positive and leave the negatives.

    We moan when we lose to zagreb, that’s expected, but to bayern? Its better to refer to zagreb and olypiamcos than bayern. That’s your right to moan. You deserve it. But not bayern.

  29. Rhys Jaggar

    I realise it’s official club policy to trash the Europa league and all that, as it is ‘below Arsenal’ (an attitude which is always one of losers, not winners), but:

    stv: ‘I hope we qualify because euefa league is a joke and there is a chance we go to very deep in to the competition before eliminated. Going around crap grounds in remote cities, ruining our pL chances and depleting the squad. Plus Thursday night football is a fucking awkward.’


    16 teams left in 2015 Europa League:

    Wolfsburg – one hour out of Berlin;

    Inter Milan; Roma; Torino; Napoli; Fiorentina – the first three of those are Champions League Cities, aren’t they? And Naples and Florence are pretty easy to get to and if any yobbo Arsenal fans think Firenze is not a city of culture equal in quality, if not quantity, to London, then you would do well to go to evening classes to educate yourselves otherwise…..

    Dinamo Moscow, Zenit: Moscow and St Petersburg are now Champions League Cities (Moscow has been for years), so no difference there.

    Dinamo Kiev, Dnipro: OK, Dinipropetrovsk is on a par with Dortmund in terms of industrialisation and it’s a very long flight, but Kiev is a long-term Champions League City.

    Villareal, Sevilla; both cities Arsenal have visited in the Champions League, so no nonsense there, please. You whinging spoilt children…….

    Besiktas: Istanbul is a well-known Champions League City, formerly the head of the Ottoman Empire, no less, for all those of you who have the remotest knowledge of history. ‘Where East meets West’ and all that……yes, you may get stabbed if you are a Leeds Utd supporter, but you can probably do that as an Arsenal fan by singing the wrong songs on the Tottenham High Road or the Kings Road.

    Ajax: well, perhaps if a few of you visited a few hookers in Amsterdam, you might become open to what the city has to offer in other matters. Still, you can all have a good punch up with the hard core Ajax fans, in fact, you could get the Spurs fans to pay some hard core Fejenoord fans to take a trip to beat you all up…….Amsterdam is a Champions League City and you know it.

    Everton: well I agree that most Arsenal fans here consider Liverpool to be an absolute dump of the first order, but it doesn’t stop a few thousand of you going there every damn season for the EPL, does it?? DOES IT?? As far as UEFA is concerned, Liverpool as a city is an absolute elite Champions League destination, as it has provided the winner on no less than 5 occasions, 4 more times than the totality of London clubs have managed in 60 years……….

    So when you look at EVIDENCE, as opposed to financial bullshit, you will see that you have no basis for claiming that you will be visiting ‘horrible provincial cities hours from anywhere’.

    You will be visiting Champions League destinations who didn’t manage to make the knock-out phases of the Champions League.

    Oh, and without going into details, here’s the losing 16 in the first knock-out round:

    Sporting Lisbon (travel similar to Benfica); Celtic (a one hr flight or 6hr drive); Trabzonspor (a bit out of the way); Anderlecht (Eurostar to Brussels); AaB (a bit out of the way); Liverpool (2hr train); Olympiakos (you’re going there in the champions league next month); Legia Warsaw (2hr flight); Red Bull Salzburg (very cultural wouldn’t you know?); Borussia Moenchengladbach (down the road from Dortmund and been to as many European Cup Finals as Arsenal); PSV Eindhoven (won more European Cups than Arsenal and a shorter drive than to Newcastle if the Channel Tunnel isn’t closed due to marauding immigrants in Calais); Athletic Bilbao (a 2hr flight to a club run to standards and principles that put Arsenal to shame); Young Boys Bern (a 1.5hr flight direct or a flight to Geneva/Basel/Zurich and a 1 – 2hr train); Guincamp (well, rather you than me tell Arsene Wenger that you won’t visit any french dumps supporting Arsenal); Tottenham Hotspur (well there at least your arguments may have some validity…..); Feyenoord (well, they’ve won more European Cups than Arsenal too and I wouldn’t be too lippy with their fans, they have a mean left hook and some bovver boots to the nether regions may be coming thereafter too……)

    So all in all, it can be quickly seen that the argument about locations and teams is unadultered cobblers.

    Ah, you’re all too spoilt to win the europa league to teach the team how to win a European trophy.

    Dream on if you think Bayern, Barca or other better run clubs are going to roll over any time soon.

    It wasn’t above Chelsea to win the Europa League. Nor Atletico Madrid. And if Sevilla can win it twice, back to back, then Arsenal can certainly win it.

    If it’s not beneath a club of prima donna fans, prima donna players and prima donna manager………

  30. Moray

    “Arteta, Flamini and Roscky will go this summer so I would expect two top quality midfielders to come in for them.”

    Haha I remember us having this same conversation pre season a couple of years ago. We needed a Dm, cd and striker and Wenger blew his load on Ozil.

    He is not going to but two top quality midfielders next summer either. And getting rid of Arteta, flamini and Tomas is at least a year overdue. That is 180k plus per week of not-good-enough just rotting away. It’s all a complete joke.

  31. Ughelligunner

    Moray, thanks for understanding.

    Tunny, if we had played with two dm, what makes you think we wouldn’t have lost?

  32. tunnygriffboy

    Campbell was kept because of Welbeck’s injury. He’s not quite good enough. Nor is Podolski ( lazy

    What team would you guys pick for Sunday assuming Bellerin and Kos will be out. Would you go for Gibbs on the left and switch Alexis over ? Would you go with Campbell or Iwobi ? Would you put Flamini alongside Coquelin to beef it up moving Ozil to the right and Santi further forward ?

    It’s a worrying time as Bellerin, Kos, Ramsey, Wilshere, Welbeck, Arteta, Walcott, Ox unavailable. That is hell of a lot of talent and options we have missing. A good Europa League team though.

  33. tunnygriffboy


    We would still have lost but having a defensively minded midfielder alongside Coquelin would be good for all big games especially away from home


    If those three players leave he will have to rplace them. Expect a mature player in prime and a youngster. Unless he buys a proper wide man andg puts Ramsey back in there in which case one will come in. I’d put money on it as the squad would be 3 players light 4 ifyou include campbell.

  34. Moray

    Rhys, don’t be disingenuous. Europa is a joke, and you know it.

    Plus, I don’t think we are good enough even to win that….

  35. Wallace

    “What positives did you take from that match last night, ughelli?”

    Against Bayern Giroud scores when he wants.

  36. Moray

    Against most opponents Giroud scores when it doesn’t matter.

    Cech admittedly was a standout, which in a 5-1 drubbing is humiliation in itself.

  37. Ughelligunner

    Our right hand side was dead. No attack, no defense. Their defence played a very high line, all this didn’t happen in the first leg. Why bring up a dm? You think wenger would play two dms?

    If he would, you would have seen flamini starting. Even when ramsey was fit, he never played midfield with coquelin, he played RW.

    And please don’t start with sneiderlin, his hands are literally held by either carrick or schweinsteiger, basically doing what carzola’s doing now.

  38. tunnygriffboy


    Great post. Weare snobby in this country. It’s strange, clubs fight really hard to get into Europe then don’t take it seriously. IF and I say IF, we get our players back it’s a great way of keeping the whole squad sharp with a bit of sensible selection

  39. Ughelligunner

    tunny, moray, positive news is bayern were on the back foot when we brought in gibbs, i won’t go with that thought that they left the foot off the pedal, nobody does that in a big game.

    It shows our starting 11 is good enough but we don’t have good enough squad. Bayern has both. I was laughing at their subs and watching Pep do his class act.

    P.s, Pep and Klopp, who would you like to watch on the side lines?

    Although i think pep doesn’t really need those activities. He is a good player character manager though, way better than mourhino

  40. Ughelligunner

    Wallace, i don’t think we can fire on both fronts, unless our English boys put on robot clothes to play, even at that, they would injure themselves putting it on.

  41. tunnygriffboy


    Just not fair to say Giroud scores when it doesn’t matter. Bearing in mind he hasn’t started in many games so far this season he scored in a 2 nil win v Stioke. He scored the first goal v Bayern, the first in 2-1 win over Everton and tthe first goal v Swansea last week. All important goals.

  42. Alfie

    “Against Bayern Giroud scores when he wants”


    To be fair, last nights results didn’t really mean a thing.

    Olympiacos travel to BM next and will get beaten and that sets us up for the final game which we have to win by two.

    If we aint beating DZ and then knocking two past Olympiacos then we don’t deserve to go through.

  43. tunnygriffboy


    We have a decent squad when all fit. We’d have a good bench including Gibbs, Gabriel, Wilshere, Giroud, Ox. That is tidy.

    Don’t know about Arteta coaching Wales U16. Know a lot of people do their coaching badges in Wales.


    No I stick by ‘ has to ‘ 🙂

  44. tunnygriffboy


    Agree 100%. No matter who we sent out yesterday we probably get beaten and beaten well. The gutting thing isstuffing up the Zagreb, Olympiacos games against sides we are better than.

    We should have got to the last 8 last season and with our group this season we should have had another chance. Wenger tried the rotation which was fair enough ( we always crying out for this) but made the mistake of not picking Cech

    I say get through the spurs game somehow. Get some players back and give the PL a really good crack.

  45. Emiratesstroller

    The issue at Arsenal at moment is not the talent within our squad, but the impact on performance in having too many players who get injured frequently and cannot then perform to required level.

    Pedro has questioned frequently our training tactics and medical support system and I am inclined now to agree with him.

    You have to ask why Arsenal are always at TOP OF LEAGUE when it comes to
    injuries. My view is that if you cannot resolve a player’s injury situation whatever might be his ability then you need to replace him.

    Having half a dozen players on your books who cannot play at least 30 games
    a season is an unacceptable risk if it jeopardises the overall performance of other players in squad and the team as a whole.

    Walcott was out for almost two years with injuries and is now once again missing games. Wilshire is also going through a similar cycle. They may be
    talented and decent players when fit, but there are plenty of alternative players in world football with at least the same talent level, but are far less injury

    The only complicating factor is that they are home grown [British] and we need to meet a quota. That is something which needs to be resolved in medium term because our youth programme has been until now fairly mediocre.

    However, I would like Arsenal to seek independent professional advice on our
    training and medical services, because something is clearly not in order there
    even if it is failure to diagnose players whom we recruit who are injury prone.

  46. Ughelligunner

    At Liverpool- lallana, sturigde, man utd-Shaw, Jones, carrick,
    arsenal- British core,
    chelsea doesn’t have any attacking English player or injury prone well they have only two English starters.
    Cant tell about other Epl teams, but reckon English players lead their teams in injuries.

    Christ the ratio of English injury prone players is higher than the rest of the other nationals present here.

    What’s their diet like, any contributions?

  47. Alfie

    Tunny –

    The international break couldn’t have come at a better time for us tbh………

    Id take a draw on Sunday at this moment in time.

  48. Wallace


    yeah, if we’re close to our best we’ll take them, but would be fine with 4pts from Swansea & Spurs, especially taking into account the injuries.

  49. Emiratesstroller

    Rhys Jagger

    Having just read your post about destinations and the quality of the teams I
    take your point.

    The real issue is however that our current squad is simply not strong enough
    in view of the reliability [injury] to certain players to cope with Thursday games and then playing physical and competitive games in EPL on Sunday
    or even Monday as was case with Spurs this week.

    If Arsenal want to be competitive in future both in EPL and Champions league
    then decisions need to be made about playing personnel and investment in
    squad which until now both Kroenke and Wenger seem unable to make.

  50. Ughelligunner

    The truth is, the reason why we are always top of the injury table is always the usual suspects. Wilshere, walcot, arteta, rosisky, ramsey, (debuchy last year), kos, even ospina has joined

    not forgetting the little flu and sicknesses here and there.

    How come we rarely hear of chelsea players being sick? Do they play when sick or they are generally healthy.

    I bet wenger’s the cause of the flu’s too according to some people.

    We need to buy, more of carzola, sanchez and giroud type players.

  51. Mickey G

    At 2-0 that was a horror show. At 3-0 it was embarrassing. After that there really was not point in wasting energy. Terrible defending for the first two goals. But our complete inability to play with the ball just invited them onto us again and again. We didn’t defend as a proper unit at all. I said Debucy looks finished and he is. We will surely move him on and bring back Jenks in the summer. But what about our complete inability to play????
    You have to look at Bayern and think, ya they got some seriously good players. Great strength in depth. But we have guys who can play ball too and they weren’t able to. At all. I think the coach has to be commended. Their pressing off the ball, the way they move, they shut down the avenues for our players to pass. It wasn’t like Arsenals version of pressing, one player chases down the man on the ball and everybody else just stands there. In possession, their movement off the ball was also brilliant. They took maximum advantage of whatever space was available. Brilliant. The quality of the premier leagues best is a long way off Bayern, Barca and Madrid at the moment. Finishing bottom of the group is the most attractive option for us now!

  52. Highbury4ever

    Wenger will not buy.

    Anyway, about last night slaughter, we were without Kos, Theo, Ox, Bellerin and Rambo, so it’s not a very surprising result.

    What is more shocking is the “behavior” of some player on the pitch yesterday…

    And the real question is : how this performance will impact our next game.

  53. tunnygriffboy


    Yeah I saidbefore the Swansea game I’d take 4 points from the two games.
    Will be tough on Sunday


    We’ve had a review and employed soft tissue specialists. We’ve got Shad Forsyth in and players are on individual programmes relevant to their positions. Wilshere has talked about it. I can cope with impact injuries but Ox should have been loose and ready to go v Wednesday, not off after 5 mins. That stuffed Walcott who was suddenly on. Ramsey has played 17 gamesthis season and with the amount of ground he and Bellerin have to have a rest now and again. It’s hugely frustrating


    Cheers for that.

  54. Alfie

    I know im going to be the only one here who thinks it, but I don’t think we were THAT bad last night!

    I think Bayern were crazy good and we had a makeshift back four but I wasn’t cursing from the rooftops. Just a meh.

  55. Ughelligunner

    The reason why i never agree with over training labeled at wenger causing injuries, is that this season he rotated more, and it didn’t stop the usual suspects getting injured.

    Ox hasn’t played consistently yet injured. Walcot, never finishes a game, injured. Rosisky/arteta injured while having sex lol, kos has been rotating with Gabriel, yet injured for the second time. Wilshere injures himself while smoking lol, ramsey didn’t travel to zagreb, yet injured compared to sanchez and carzola that travel and play all the games like him, welbeck injured without even playing everyday last season.

    Can somebody tell me, if monreal, sanchez, giroud, mertesaker (sicknote) carzola, coquelin, bellerin never train?

    I remember when sagna was here, he was hardly injured too except his broken leg, even when he fell awfully he came back the next game. Contrast that to wilshere and the British core.

    Take note those injury prone players under wenger services are also injury prone while in their new teams.

  56. tunnygriffboy


    We do often bounce back after loses. This is something this team does. Will be tough on Sunday though. It’ll be the same side for virtually 3 tough games with the loss of possibly two influential defenders. We don’t have the option of freshening things up either with our cursed injury situation.

    Wenger will buy in the summer. We’ll have four or five playersleaving and we’ll strengthen with better 🙂


    I agree. Wasn’t expecting anything. More concerned with Sunday.

  57. Highbury4ever

    “Wenger will buy in the summer. ”

    Maybe Tunny, but the real chance of winning the PL is NOW!!
    That’s what is the most frustrating!!

    Wenger out by the way lol

  58. goonerboy

    Fair result- outclassed and embarrassed by a top side. But Bayern don’t play in the EPL- they play in a pussy league where they buy every top player there is and can keep their key players back for one game without losing momentum because the competition is piss poor.
    Bayern are a monopoly and the German league is not a competitive league. Its like the EPL sells every top player to one team- like Liverpool and United used to be.

    We on the other hand turn up absolutely shot physically with a team full of reserves and the rest half fit. We are a disgrace and Wenger should be sacked blaming the team when he is solely to blame for this embarrassment.

  59. Dissenter

    Upon further reflection, I hope Zagreb get a draw against us and we fail to beat Olympiakos away.
    That way, we’ll be last in the group and avoid the ignominy of the Europa league. There are many good teams in the Europa league that will drain us on Thursday night’s and leave out league football form in shambles.

    Even Europa league teams have better squads than ours.
    We have a one-competition squad.

  60. Highbury4ever

    “Arsene Wenger says Laurent Koscielny has a “small chance” of featuring against Tottenham – but Arsenal’s Hector Bellerin is unlikely to be fit.”

    Debuchy for sunday ??
    I’m in!! lol

  61. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Hate to say it
    But we are going to lose Sunday

    The gold has started ,,,

    Maybe now some in the board room are thinking hang on

    November CL struggle again this time no lucky escape

    November injuries like every other year

    An ill equipped squad descimsted by a couple of injuries ?

    Is arsene the right man for the challenge ?

    Sure he helped move to
    Here but can he take us to the promised land ?

    No sorry the promised land is a dream with the correct man could be reality ….

  62. Highbury4ever

    “We live in a world where you have to face reality.”

    Guess who said that ?? lol
    Amazing…. what a joke of a manager.

  63. Dissenter

    No need for false optimism, even Wenger is facing reality.
    “You know you can’t be too negative but you also have to face reality,” Wenger said. “Our performance was not good enough. We live in a world where you have to face reality.”

    We are Europa league bound.

  64. goonerboy

    Bottom line is AKBs, losing to a championship side 3-0 a week ago is evidence enough- 5-1 to Bayern and despite their German sized ego’s they are not THAT good.

    Get it- we are Wenger’s tight arsed team- a paper thin side crap below the first 11. Built for generating profit but not to win.

    Want to wait for Sunday for proof? Sadly you will see.

  65. qna

    ES agree with you in regards to 6 player overhaul. But what exactly is your goal here? Because to have players like we saw at Bayern we need more like 16 new players.

    But yes, we should be moving on initially the 6 you mentioned. As soon as we do that we still have an age profile that is generally too old. Monreal, Kosceilny, Mertesacker, Cech, Cazorla. All good players now, but how many seasons before they too are past their used by dates? So we have a lot of recruitment needed and we must do it in a planned and deliberate manner.

    We cant catch up to Bayern and Barca through big name transfers. We need to overhaul our talent/youth program and be better at it. Finding only Bellerin in a decade is not good enough.

    Even in top end transfers, how did we miss Douglas Costa. We should forget about 29 year olds like Benzema, Cavani etc. Our marquees should be 25. The rest we should focus on guys like Fekir (injury free), Dybala, etc. 22 year olds.

    We then need to spot these guys before their price exceeds £5m. And if we are going to be paying that much for them we need a better plannto develop them than our current. The epl youth league doesnt work.

  66. qna

    Dissenter. I am not usually optimisic mate. But I actually believe that Ozil is going to deliver us to the 2nd round. If he had just slightly better forwards to feed I even think we could be close to the league. But I do think our squad is too thin. But I can see us edging out United for 2nd which is am improvement from the last few years.

    I am still filthy that this fucking club didnt spend in Summer. But I will try to enjoy the moments. I guess much of my joy comes from always being a beliver in Ozil and seeing him get some reward for his efforts is really satisfying.

  67. Dissenter

    You now need to factor in the impact of Europa cup participation on our League form.
    Like I said before, Europa league teams typically have bigger squads than ours. We don’t have a second team that’s good enough for Europa league.

  68. tunnygriffboy


    16 players ? I reckon about 5 or 6 over two years. Get injuries sorted, add these players in and we’d have a good chance for the league and last 8 CL.

    If we can get through sunday, get some players back and continue in the league like we have been we have players back Christmas time and the window. Wehave spurs, City and Southampton to play before the new year. The rest of the fixtures are against teams in the bottom half of the table.

    Either February or March we have a tough set of fixtures but our run in is good bar City in last but one game of the season.

  69. Highbury4ever

    Wenger knows best, that’s why he didn’t buy this summer.

    Because he knew that there would be no major injuries this season.
    Arsène, my advice : BUY A F*CKING NEW CRISTAL BALL, you dick.

  70. Mr B

    We have a thin squad plus lots of injuries plus lots of youngsters plus our style attracts tackles plus officiating in the PL plus Morinho

    Did I mention the alignment of the stars, everything is against us.

  71. tunnygriffboy


    You just bey careful with Europa league. We have enough players to rest half a team in one leg then give them a rest in the second. Keeps everyone playing meaningful games then. The likes of Wilshere, Welbeck, Rosicky, Ox etc will need game time. It is a way to do it.

  72. Mr B

    Even if we didn’t have injuries, Sanchez and Ozil look shot and dead on their feet 40 minutes into a game.

    It all comes down to the pictures Denilson has, I wonder if he will be called in for investigation some time in the future. 😀

    Truth is he was too concerned with giving Ramsey, Ox, Theo and Campbell minutes on the right hand side to invest in proper players.

  73. Cesc Appeal

    ‘one thing, £23m for Douglas Costa…fuckin’ hell’

    I know the wizardry, Europe totally barren of players who could improve anyone, yet…

  74. S Asoa


    Good advice to get professional advice as to why Arsenal have the highest % of injuries .
    Answer is simple , maybe wrong , down to WENGER 20 year old at that time progressive methods , outdated now.
    The man is a Power Manipulator . So don’t expect any experts being appointed to point out to the SHIT ON WONKIE BACKSIDE

  75. Cesc Appeal


    I agree.

    I think in January we could start making steps to starting to get rid of a large chunk of 8-9 injury prone players, or some of the players who quite clearly aren’t going to help us right now or any more and bring in a couple of good players.

    Good January would be a wide playmaker and then a good quality squad addition with a good injury record.

    I don’t want to hear about all the returning sick notes, because sick notes will do what sick notes always do, whether that’s in February, March, April or at the start of next season, they will be missing again and we won’t ever be able to do anything meaningful.

    Wenger needs options, and he needs reliability in his squad, he also needs some humility and just to admit that squad composition wise, he doesn’t necessarily always ‘know.’

  76. tunnygriffboy

    Our team is bi polar. The last 5 league games.

    Leicester 5-2
    Man u 3-0
    Watford 3-0
    Everton 2-1
    Swansea 3-0

    Our cup games have been shambolic though. Think part of it is attitude and mindset tbh. Certainly Zagreb and Olympiacos were.

  77. tunnygriffboy


    He needs to get in someone for Flameta and then treat Wilshere being fit as a bonus. If no striker of quality a worldie right sided player would do. Him and Alexis wide and Giroud or Walnut in the middle wouldn’t be to shabby.

    That wouldgive us a chance of winning the title. However we’ll be lucky to see one of them in January let alone two.

  78. Cesc Appeal


    But then Wilshere, Ramsey, Walcott, Oxlade, Welbeck, Gibbs, Arteta, Rosicky…that is a ridiculous amount of injury prone players. Some of them severely injury prone and most of them are regarded as ‘vital’ squad options.

    That then exposes elements like Campbell, Chambers, Debuchy (though not Wenger’s fault here his descent into lampshade like use on the pitch is incredible) who are not good enough.

    We need to wipe out I’d say half of those injury nightmare players, and that might involve some tough decisions, replacing them with reliable, good players.

    1-2 first team additions, say a wide play maker and a ST, then 2-3 good, solid, reliable squad type players.

    We keep doing this every year and expecting the physiology of our players to change.

  79. Dissenter

    “He needs to get in someone for Flameta and then treat Wilshere being fit as a bonus. If no striker of quality a worldie right sided player would do. Him and Alexis wide and Giroud or Walnut in the middle wouldn’t be to shabby”

    Should have happened last summer.
    Wenger, it seems is one or two seasons too late to the table.
    I think it was Bill Shankly who said that “football is a simple game complicated by idiots”
    Wenger tends to over think the obvious.
    I think he needs some time away from the game to reset his bearings.

  80. Vince

    Can we stop this crap of “we lost to Bayern because they are the best team in Europe” shot. We are the great Arsenal for crying 9th loud. We are so good no player in Europe could improve us while poor teams like Bayern were adding players to plug their lapses. Coman and Costa were bought just weeks ago and they tormented us. If Arsenal were Bayern Wenger will not buy Coman to kill Roben or Costa to kill Ribery. We are so good our money can’t improve our fortune. maybe if we change coach it will help.

  81. Dissenter

    The best predictor of future behavior is past history.
    That’s why Liverpool decided to get Benteke in and regard Sturidge’s fitness as a bonus.
    Why does Wenger keep hedging his best on players that are too far injury prone.
    Ramsey, Walcott,Oxlade, Rosicky, Arteta and Wilshere are obvious examples in my opinion. That’s season are all players who spend far too much time injured.

    We keep trying to reinvent stupid.

  82. Bamford10

    Rhys Jaggar

    Good post. The Europa League should not be derided. No, it is not the CL, obviously, but there are still a lot of good European teams in the competition, and it takes a good deal of quality to win it. While I understand the practical reasons for not wanting to play on Thursday nights — esp. given our injury situation — I think it is silly for people to think we are “too good” for it.

    Further, I’d like to reiterate the question I posed yesterday: which is the “bigger” trophy — Europa League or the FA Cup?

    As I said before, your average Englishman would probably say the latter, but I’m not sure the rest of the world would agree.

    (Note that I am separating the q above from the q of whether it is advantageous for us to play in the Europa this year. Although I think I basically agree with Rhys on the latter q.)

  83. Bamford10


    “Wenger will buy in the summer. We’ll have four or five playersleaving and we’ll strengthen with better :)”

    Love the optimism, but why are you confident that he will do next summer what he refused/failed to do this summer? Most if not all of the players you see being moved on/replaced should have been replaced THIS summer.

  84. tunnygriffboy


    Ox should have been stretch fit and ready to go starting the game v Wednesday
    With Wilshere and Welbeck out Ramsey has had to play 17 games in 12 weeks. He probably runs more than most.

    Does Welbeck have a history of injury ? Or is this just a major one

    Bellerin is a sprinter, again covers huge amount of ground. What has happened to Debuchy ? He’s so poor atm it difficult to rest Bellerin. I’d even think of playing Chambers ahead of him

    Our bench on Sunday will be devoid of options again. 9 players out. You don’t win titles with those injuries. Need to get Ramsey, Ox, Walnut back asap after international break.

    Germany have qualified I’d pull Ozil and God knows where Chile are playing. We have to reinforce in January to give ourselves a chance. But we probably won’t.

  85. Leedsgunner

    “There are currently 6 players in squad who are not good enough to play in
    first team specifically Arteta,Rosicky,Flamini, Campbell, Chambers and probably Debuchy.”

    I agree with all the names except Chambers. It’s a testament to our defensive stability that Chambers hasn’t been able to break into the side either at CB or at RB. This should be a matter of celebration and not used as a stick to beat Calum with. He’s still young and I’m sure if he’s a smart boy, he should be soaking up tips and learning from the established pros.

    It’s too early to write him off yet.

    PS. Although having lauded our “defensive stability” just now it was nowhere to be seen last night.

    Tunny is spot on, there is definitely a bizarre contrast between how we defend in Europe and how we defend in the EPL… it’s like a switch goes on when that Uefa CL anthem and our defenders lose their collective heads and experience.

  86. Cesc Appeal


    The reasons why don’t matter though, every year we’re talking about ‘need to get Walcott, Oxlade, Wilshere, Rosicky, Ramsey fit.’ Every year.

    Get rid of half of them. It is totally pointless and we will never get anywhere.

    Far too many sick notes. I’d get shot of Arteta, Rosicky, Flamini, Wilshere and then make a choice out of Walcott, Welbeck or Oxlade to get rid of.

    Ramsey stays because he is a useful player and is less injury prone than most of those guys.

    You can do it in stages though, starting in January.

  87. Leedsgunner

    I think there is a misunderstanding widely spread among Arsenal fans that says we will challenge for the Europa League trophy should we be entered in it.

    I’m not sure.

    The teams left in still have plenty of European pedigree between them and they won’t just roll over because we are the Arsenal. If anything, we will be a marked club, and all the other clubs will want to have our scalp… and if we were to make an early and unceremonious exit from the Europa league, that will do the morale of the club no good at all. I for one want to avoid the sneers and the humiliation altogether.

    Better that we come out of Europe altogether and focus our energy in mounting a title challenge to the very end of the season (when was the last time we did that, 2005?) and defend our FA Cup trophy and make it a hat trick.

  88. Dissenter

    I don’t think the Europa league is being derided.
    It’s probably where we have a better chance of winning it.
    It’s just that our squad is far too thin to compete on the domestic and Europa league fronts so we have to just constructively fail in the Europa league and face the premier league with everything.

    The likes of Carzola, Ozil and Coquelin are looking knackered already and it’s only November. They won’t be getting reinforcements until next year.

  89. tunnygriffboy


    It’s simple numbers and the quality of players that’s why I’m optimistic. Flamini, Arteta, Rosicky and Campbell will be allowed to leave. Purely on numbers they’llhave to be replaced. Their contracts are up and they wwon’t be renewed. That will automatically strengthen the squads because players coming in will be younger and better

    I chuck Debuchy as well and bring jenkinson back

    Agree about Europa. IF and I mean IF we get our players fit it would be a good competition to keep players fit. Use half the first team for one leg then change them for second but play the usual bench players like Wilshere, Welbeck, Gibbs etc in both legs keeping them sharp.

  90. Wallace


    historically the Europa’s bigger than the FA Cup, but the recent thing of dumping the runts of the CL group stages into the next round just ruins it for me.

  91. Dissenter

    We seem to be minimizing the enormous difficulties Arsenal will have turning around our training and post-game recovery for Thursday night games.
    It’s not as easy as it might appear. The club has been conditioned to CL games for 1.5 decades.
    The players will probably be shell-shocked for a long while.
    That’s also the point where the better players start to plot their way out.

  92. Bamford10


    Agree with what you’ve said re Europa, except that I think that is precisely why we should want to be in it. It would be a legitimate European test for our squad, for Wenger, for the club.


    You may not be deriding it, but others here would. As I said, I understand the pracitcal reasons for not wanting to play on Thursday nights, but I think Europa League would be a real and meaningful challenge for us.

    I, for one, would be more interested in seeing Arsenal challenge for the Europa trophy than challenge for another FAC.

    What would have been more compelling last year? Arsenal vs. Villa in the FAC final, or Arsenal vs. Sevilla in Warsaw? For me, the latter.

  93. Bamford10


    “Flamini, Arteta, Rosicky and Campbell will be allowed to leave. ”

    Why were they not allowed to leave this summer? Why were they not replaced this summer? And was Wenger wrong not to replace these players?

  94. Bamford10


    Hear you, but the “runts” you speak of are often some of the best teams in Europe, better than many of the teams already in the Europa, no?

  95. Dissenter

    Our European pedigree is far less than many teams in the Europa cup so I completely agree with you.
    My point is more of pragmatism. We don’t have the squad strength to do it without decimating our core players.
    Who else can cover for Coquelin if we were playing Napoli on Thursday night and have a late Saturday game away at United?

    We aren’t good enough for Europa league (based on squad depth) at the moment. Even spuds are stronger than us in this regard.

  96. Dissenter

    There seems to be a deep chasm separating the first 14 players on our squad from the rest.
    The first 14 players are good enough, after that its like dropping into the Marianas gorge.

  97. Wallace


    “Hear you, but the “runts” you speak of are often some of the best teams in Europe, better than many of the teams already in the Europa, no?”

    yeah, for sure, I’m just a purist. don’t think you should be able to win a tournament you didn’t actually qualify for.

  98. tunnygriffboy


    I don’t necessarily agree with you about having 14 players. We have more than that. It’s the injuries that nail us.

    You could split the fIrst team so they play in one leg only. Could go with Bellerin,Chambers, Kos, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Ox, Wilshere, Alexis, Giroud in one game

    Debuchy, Per, Gabriel, Monreal, Coquelin, Santi, Welbeck Ozil, Wilshere, Walcott in the other leg.

    It’s the injuries that kill us. They are both ok teams and it keeps what is usually our bench sharp and focussed.

    Fixtures after Europa always on a Sunday

  99. Leedsgunner


    RE Europa

    If we had a manager who actually believed in squad depth on the field rather than just in the physio room I would agree with you.. but the truth is our starting XI although good in quality is starting to look jaded already and it’s only November. Another game is just another opportunity for them to get injured.

    In theory, a competition like Europa should be good in giving our fringe players regular games as well as an avenue for which we could “blood” our moist talented youth players and integrate them into the first team squad.

    However, Wenger will not see it like this. He will play the first XI unless he is forced by injuries to go into his squad players. Want examples? Coquelin and Bellerin were only initially used because injuries forced Wenger’s hand.

    At the moment, our first team is capable of winning the EPL (with a stroke of luck) as well as defending our FA Cup title. I think we should focus on that.