Arsenal need to kill the game in the first 20mins

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GOOOOOOOD MORNING TO YA’LL.

I might have to miss the Arsenal game on Sunday.

This is a big upset.

It’s impossible to work around though. I’m helpless. Like you are in the hairdressers when your nose is itching but you can’t take your hands out from under the apron.

Anyway, where there’s a will, there’s a way. I have all day at home to think about this.

So what’s new with Arsenal?

Wenger is back to banter with this little pearler on why he didn’t sign Martial.

“Monaco’s statement was always that the two players that would not move were Martial and [Layvin] Kurzawa, so I thought they would maintain that,”

“But in the end both of them moved.”

FACEPALM ME OFF MY DAMN CHAIR.

You asked them politely and they responded politely. AND YOU LEFT IT.

Amazing. I mean, it’s nice to see our middle class sentiments go beyond the football pitch. We really do need to learn a thing or two about signing players when the clubs in question don’t want to let them go.

That comment does nothing to quell the obvious… we’re far too passive when it comes to signing players. Unless someone serves up a player to us, with a thick instruction pack on how to make the deal happen. We don’t sign anyone.

On the game, the banter levels were lower.

“We have an opponent… we cannot afford to drop points now against anyone at home.”

It’s a mega game this evening. We have to win. But we have to win with Sunday in mind. So it’ll be interesting to see how the manager plays this one. We have more of a breather than we did last week. We also have a day more to prepare than Manchester United have. Which is a mega bonus.

Theo Walcott is going to start this evening because Giroud is injured. Hopefully he can bang in a 20minute hattrick then take the rest of the evening off. Ospina is going to start in goal as the deal seems to be that he’s the cup keeper. Quite a risky move, but that’s the way it’s going.

There’s talk that Rambo will not play. Which, again, as a top performer, is a big risk. But look, the squad is what it is and the manager needs to rotate if he wants to compete this season.

So fingers crossed eh?

That’s me done, have a good one!

1,032 Responses to “Arsenal need to kill the game in the first 20mins”

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  1. leon

    In truth this team had zero chancing of winning this competition, all the top teams in europe added real quality there squads who already better than this team have made there squads even better

  2. Hughie

    And kronkes. He needs the cash to keep ksl in the black. And his lackey Wenger just goes with the flow. Any decent manager would be screaming for more money. Not that I would want him to as he hasn’t a clue how to motivate a team or let alone devise a game plan. GGs old boys kept him going before.

  3. Tippitappi

    When things are good there’s no reason to correspond and that’s good, so here go’s with the moan the dilemma he faces now is not a football one but a financial one no second round is more harmful to his post than any humiliating defeat because that’s what’s it’s all about . Fancy seriously imagine you could win the EPL and or champs league with no out field strengthening simply put a club and so called manager with no real desire to put football before financial self gain and my bet is had we won tonight we would have lost Sunday. But maybe we’ll will win on Sunday now because it’s all about uppers and downers with this club like a fucking drug addict which gets you nowhere in the long run

  4. Mohammed

    Leeds I’d like to think he wouldn’t and maybe we would see a return of David Dein who we have sorely missed since his departure

    Usmanov if I’m correct has deeper pockets than Abramovich

  5. Marko

    His attitude in that press conference is appalling for me. So defensive for the indefensible. Citing bad luck? An absolute disgrace. We’ve witnessed those types of performance so many times over the years at some point it becomes apparent who’s fault it is

  6. Mick Kartun

    bamord 10.

    Wenger is a fucking joke.

    The only positive here is that a disastrous season may help push him out the door. That is the only way forward for the club.

    AGREED. it will be the worst time in my life that i even prefer manure win in sunday.

    fuck me, what have we become, i even hate myself for that.

    but even that won’t enough for kroenke to sack wenger.

    fuck, fuck, how we live in reality check.

  7. Leedsgunner

    I know 3 points versus United isn’t assured, but our chances are better when we are under pressure over when are complacent. When we are complacent, we tend to retreat into our shell… and allow strong teams to attack us. We are best when we set the pace and take the initiative. Glad to see Walcott and Sanchez on the scoresheet… about time they began to put the ball in the net.

  8. Mohammed

    Guys it’s pointless trying to get rid of Wenger – the snakes head is Kreonke take him out and Wenger will follow because I’m not sure any other owner would stand for this shit

  9. Gunner2301

    Mohammed

    Kroenke is in this for the long term unfortunatel. It would take a stupid amount of money to relinquish his shares and as much as we all want that for Usmanov that doesn’t make good business sense so we will carry on in limbo. Us manor is probably waiting for the demise to inevitably happen so he can make an offer when the shares have bottomed out. In a way Wenger is helping him.

  10. Leedsgunner

    Did bad luck get the blame again? Lol….. Wenger must be the unluckiest manager alive. Why the heck do we want him as our manager then?

    Funny it’s only bad luck when we lose? Why wasn’t good luck mentioned on Saturday? Or is it all due to Wenger only when we win? How hollow and hypocritical is that?

  11. David Smith

    I wish Kronke would go, with all I have, but for all his hoarding of collateral, I cannot blame him for some of the things we have seen this season. When Wenger wants to buy, he , as far as we know backs him. He doesn’t keep Gerry Payton hanging on, or refuse to properly drill the defence, or pick the wrong keeper.
    Today is down to Wenger, and he knows it. We mock Spurs, but they could knock us out of Europe this year.
    Why has Ivan suddenly become so quiet

  12. Gunner2301

    Mohammed

    Wenger is a money earner plenty of owners with no ambition would love him. He’d do a sterling job for Mike Ashley who’s a greedy bastard there are always owners of that ilk that would see value in Wenger not for footballing reasons though.

    It maybe the other way round getting rid of Wenger weakens Kroenkes position. Wenger has been propping up the board and the cronies for years they would implode if he left then Kroenke would be exposed. Give him a hard time he may decide to sell up. At the moment Wenger is prepared to be the front man and take the flack for his 8 mill a year.

  13. Leedsgunner

    I note Bayern Munich put 5 past that European powerhouse D. Zagreb.

    If we lose to Bayern Munich by less than that I can guarantee to you that some here will celebrate that loss as progress and use it as evidence of progress under Wenger. A loss is not a loss if you don’t lose as badly as th next guy.

  14. Gunner2301

    David Smith

    Ivan was talking about extending Wengers contract the other day. He’s a prime pussy not a spine in his body. Imagine someone treading on your responsibilities for years and your having to go in front of other CEOs who know Wenger is fucking you over. What sort of complex do you think that has given him? He’s not brave enough to take Wenger on. He doesn’t have the balls to walk away so he praises him instead like a sadistic twat. He needs to get slaughtered at the next Q & A smooth talking bastard.

  15. Mohammed

    So in short what we are saying is Wenger out will lead to Kreonke out

    How our path may have been different if Usmanov took over….

  16. David Smith

    2301..,,,extending wengers contract? Love to know on what grounds. Wenger is rapidly declining, and will soon take us out of The champions league, than what will be ivan and stand justification, especially if fans turn….and the players get pissed off. I do not know if Ivan lacks spine…or just lacks any power whatsoever. After all, what can you do if you answer to Stan and Wenger….other than leave, or just accept their collective lack of ambition and pocket your two and a half million a year. Guess things have moved on, at least we not go out of tournaments to the champions of Greece and Croatia rather than Blackburn and Bradford.

  17. WengerEagle

    ‘Accidents’ in recent years:

    -Manchester United 8-2 Arsenal
    -Newcastle United 4-4 Arsenal (after being 4-0 up)
    -AC Milan 4-0 Arsenal
    -Arsenal 1-3 Aston Villa
    -Manchester City 6-3 Arsenal
    – Liverpool 5-1 Arsenal
    -Chelsea 6-0 Arsenal
    -Everton 3-0 Arsenal
    -Arsenal 3-3 Anderlecht (after being 3-0 up)
    -Arsenal 1-3 Monaco
    -Arsenal 0-2 West Ham
    -Dinamo Zagreb 2-1 Arsenal
    -Arsenal 2-3 Olympiacos

    Fair few in there lol, and that’s just from the last 3 years.

  18. David Smith

    Arsenal 0 Blackburn 1….another accident.

    But back to Europe, the more money and resources Wenger has, the worse he gets in this competition. Strange. Shows fear I think

  19. Dissenter

    I must say I enjoy reading the loud moans here when we’ve lost a game that many were expecting us to win.

    Anytime Wenger labels a game “must-win”, we are losing. It’s that simple.
    If we get relegated to Europa this season, watch out for him to spin it into gold.
    You’ll be surprised how his worshipers will lap it up.

    200 million pounds in the bank and you can even get a team to properly

    It’s like politics people like Wenger don’t go away with a confetti shower. They only leave when the bottom has fallen out.

  20. daz

    “Ospina is No.1 but i fear Wenger will ruin him like he ruined Manninger.”

    Best comment I’ve read so far thanks red that made me laugh your a right bell end 🙂

  21. Relieable Sauce

    Thats the ridiculous thing about it, all the thrashings and bottled results that have gone before just get shrugged off & put down to accidents & bad luck.

    Wengerites are idiots.

  22. David Smith

    Wenger was once great, but successive tight and self interested boards and owners who wouldn’t put a penny into the club….David Deins departure, selling players he has developed have killed wengers drive and ambition.
    The man is now more an accountant than smanager of a football team.
    His former greatness should not be forgotten, those who have ruined the club should not be forgiven, but Wenger is finished., ruined, gone. A ,erciful man would put him out of his misery before he kills all he once did.

  23. Mohammed

    Look the guy lost a final to Galatasary in the UEFA cup on pens I mean that’s a joke and that too with a pretty good team.

    Touching distance in Paris which is the closest he’ll ever be to lifting it ever

    I’m not in the camp of hatred for him just need someone to usher him out thanks for the memories some were really good and some were really bad but it’s time to say goodbye

  24. Marko

    Sorry but bar one miraculous beautiful run in the champions league where we could of won it we’ve always been a soft touch in Europe. Even as far back as when we had to play in Wembley we’d get beaten by the likes of Fiorentina when we were favourites. Fact is its a competition we’ve mentally never been prepared for. Sure we’re capable of brilliant performances like away to Bayern or home to Barca but it’s never enough and usually after a severe let down or two. We just need change. So stale and predictable even for someone like Zagreb and Olympiakos

  25. leon

    I really feel this a good thing for arsenal in the long run because this manager really needs go, someone needs to come in ruffle some feathers and give this board a long over due kick in ass because they have gotten lazy

  26. David Smith

    Doubt if this board will let anyone ruffle feathers. My guess, when Wenger goes,, and it will clearly be his decision, monk , Rogers or Martinez with forty million to spend, despite what the club have in the bank.

  27. Joe

    Juventus got relegated and now have won a couple league and made the final last year.

    A couple steps backwards to move forward.

    Nog saying we need to get relegated. Just falter enough for Wenger to fuck off

    Hopefully embarrassingly and disgraced out of my club

  28. TitsMcGee

    The sad part is we’ll probably draw against Bayern at least once and the AKBS will be out in droves.

    Kinda like the 2-0 in Bavaria a few years ago. It’ll be touted as some glimmer of progress when in reality all it is is an anomaly. A side effect of a spirt where upsets happen more frequently than any other sport.

  29. gnarleygeorge9

    Some Wolves supporter mentioned to me about The Arsenal losing this morning, which I replied “Who too?” I’m not even bothering to check the fixtures list anymore, that’s how disenfranchised I am these days with the Club

  30. GuNZ

    I can’t take much more. Getting out of the group stage is now going to be like trying to shovel your way out of a hole lined with diarrhoea. Good to see Wenger getting almost universally hammered for some of his player selections. – he fucking well deserves it. ‘Bad luck’ my pile-encrusted arse . . .

  31. salparadisenyc

    Juventus got relegated for match fixing.
    From title winners two season running to automatic relegation to Serie B, titles stripped for 05 and 06. Not really comparable.

  32. Dark Hei

    What’s wrong with you louts!

    Change is good and it is 2000 all over again. Provided we get 3rd of course.

    I mean every year we go through the motions of qualifying for the CL group stages and get knocked out. So let’s have a change for once. Anyway, it is always nice to go to Bayern with our backs against the wall.

    The team did not play badly tonight so I am not too worried about the overall scheme of things.

    As some bloke said yesterday, you can either beat Man U or Olympiakos, but not both. So here we go Man U this weekend!

    Also, I think Mou is secretly in love with Wenger. He is doing his best to keep Wenger company though he overcooked it in the league.

  33. GuNZ

    Dark Hei

    Actually, you’re not too far off with your silver-lining insights. I believe myself to come across as far more passionate, even darkly dangerous, when I am spitting vitriol with sparking eyes about what Wenger has most lately done to ruin my life, and become, accordingly, incredibly attractive to the opposite sex. This is in stark contrast to the smug, satisfied glow after a victory, which tends to invite passing sexual psychopaths to ask me what the fuck I am smiling about. So thank you for putting it into perspective and showing me the upside.

  34. jasongms

    Radio RaheemSeptember 29, 2015 21:11:33
    Wenger will only leave in a coffin

    this a real gem and not far from the truth .
    Can just imagine Arsene being wheeled , oxygen mask on at 102 years old , after another loss and stating ” but we have ze quality ” . And the sad part is the majority of Arsenal fans will nod fondly , Oh yes the quality !

  35. Emiratesstroller

    Perhaps the worst statistic from last night’s debacle is that Arsenal have managed to win just TWO GAMES IN THE LAST EIGHT at home.

    This season we have managed to win just ONE out of FOUR against Stoke and
    lost TWO against West Ham and now Olympiacos drawing the fourth against
    Liverpool. This followed a defeat against Swansea and two draws against Chelsea and Sunderland at end of last season.

    No team aspiring to win Titles should be as poor as we are when they play at home.

    The reality is that the Manager, Coaching Staff and Team are as ever tactically
    sterile and predictable and of course the worst feature is that every team who
    now comes to Emirates knows how to set up their team when playing us.

    What is shocking is that Arsenal lack the equipment to break down opponents
    at home and sort out the team’s basic weaknesses.

    You would have thought that Wenger would have used the summer break and
    transfer window to resolve the frailties of his squad, but predictably his arrogance and lack of tactical naus prevented him from doing so.

    The sad facts are that we are defensively poor as ever at set pieces and counter
    attack. That is down to poor concentration and decision making.

    Furthermore our general play in midfield and attack is as usual pedestrian and we continue to play tic tac football with no clinical end product. Arsenal
    have become the most WASTEFUL team in the top division and continues to
    highlight our shortcomings as a team.

    Finally the worst statistic of all in the last eight games is our inability to score
    an early goal. We seem to start all our games with a lot of possession, but no
    end product and then allow the opposition to frustrate us and then more often
    than not concede the first goal in disastrous fashion. We land up playing catch
    up.

  36. Follow the money

    When Wenger talks about football as art I didn’t know he was talking about new and creative ways to lose. Silly me

  37. qna

    Arsenal are the 8th richest team with the 8th highest paid squad (10th highest paid in all team sports globally). On paper, Arsenal are a behemoth. The victories that we do get over the course of the season are bought and paid for. Par for the course for such a team is quarter finals of the UCL. This year, we will find ourselves with 0 wins, 4 losses and 2 games to play. From this point it will be more likely that we will finish bottom of the group than play Spursday night football.

    What beggars belief is how few people really understand how absolutely horrific our squad is. We are nowhere near qualifying for a qf or sf of this competition, let alone winning it. We were never anywhere near winning the league – even if we had bought Benzema and Schneiderlin as many were suggesting.

  38. qna

    Wallace. Where are you mate? Didnt I say that our older guys like Kosielny’s will start having more and more injuries now they have moved into their thirties. This will be a continuing theme.

    Arsenal’s age profile is now completely wrong.

    Old Players
    Rosicky – 34
    Cech – 33
    Mertesacker – 31
    Koscielny – 30
    Debuchy – 30
    Monreal – 29
    Flamini – 31
    Arteta – 33
    Cazorla – 30 (31 in 2 months)
    Giroud – 28 (included cause he was slow even in his prime)

    Young Players
    Oxlaide – 22
    Bellerin – 20
    Chambers – 20

    It is good to have a mix of youth and experience. I agree with that. But you have to always carefully manage your age profile. We have only 3 young players, to 10 old/slow players. The rest of the squad is pretty much at their prime age, but this includes players with questionable talent like Gibbs, Welbeck, Ospina, Gabriel.

    Arsene Wenger keeps digging us deeper and deeper. The amount of money it will cost to properly rebuild this squad to become genuine competitors is massive. Somebody made a point about Juve going backwards to move forwards. Well for us, it is inevitable that we will go backwards. The question is, with Stan Kroenke and Ivan Gazidis at the helm, will we be able to move forwards again or will we just stay back there with Liverpool and Spurs?

  39. Dark Hei

    qna

    I hardly think the term “horrific” can be used to describe the team. Other than City and United, who else in the EPL is likely to finish ahead of us?

    Well, maybe we can label the entire EPL as horrific.

    But then, Dark Hei is here to provide a silver lining. Here is the scenario. 3 English teams crash out of the qualifying stages, leaving Chelsea who squeak by. Chelsea huff and puff and comes in 4th in the EPL while getting knocked out in round 16 of UCL.

    But UEFA decided to knock off 1 spot in the UCL and we all get to laugh at Mou who claims that UEFA has a conspiracy against Chelsea. Yeah. Silver linings are often razor thin.

  40. qna

    Dark Hei. How would you feel if your broker took all your wealth, your pension etc and invested it in the market with the same effectiveness that Arsenal invest its wealth. You would be losing money compared to the market on a catastrophic scale. The result in the first 2 champions league matches this season and the result at home against Monaco last season just give a glimpse of how badly they have invested. This is three different leagues, each varying in wealth and competitiveness, but all three teams given considerably less finances to work with. Yet the similarity between the three games are striking.

    For all their money, Arsenal have assembled a squad of players that can be defeated by very simple tactics, executed by arbitrary and reasonably average professional footballers.

    You might say that with a better manager, the same players would be much better (well you might not say – but others might). It could be the case, but I dont agree. I think that most of the players in our squad, in particular the British boys, are decidedly mediocre.

  41. qna

    Dark: You kind of left out the middle aged folks. Coquelin, Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Sanchez which is the core of our playing staff.

    I didnt leave them out at all. I said the rest are in their prime. I dont think these guys together form the nucleus of a successful side. You could take one or two of them and put them into a very good side, but they would need to be compensated for by other players. Together, they are lightweight. Put them against a weak opponent and sure, they can inflict damage. But put them against another good side, who are thoughtfully assembled and our players will never get the ball back. 10 minutes of asking these guys to chase the ball and they give up themselves.

    Coquelin obviously is the exception. But what he has in spades, he lacks in quality on the ball. So there are players out there that can do his job defensively, but also contribute to the attacking play as well. Still, I agree, he does complement the lightweight flair players that Wenger has a hard on for.

  42. bobthebuilderhewillfixit

    and then you have some of the idiots on here backing Wenger still

    it doesnt take much to impress you lot does it
    are you the type that has your seat or girlfriend taken and thinks “that always happens but hey its ok” do you settle for second or third best in life?
    i bet you do. So when you go through the hallowed entrance at that soulless bowl paying your hard earned you dont think the clucb are taking the piss? of course you do but you dont complain, because on the way you had your seat taken and your girlfriend run off with the fella at the back of the bus, but thats ok, thats life, thats Arsenal

    ****heads

  43. Ughelligunner

    Good that Giroud didn’t play. All this would have been pinned down on him.

    For once, a match without giroud name springing up as a cause. Relief. Good morning, Peeps

  44. Ughelligunner

    Did anybody see the chelsea game? They were lucky to keep the scoreline down. Porto were gorgeous.

    Premiership teams are in doom this season.

    Well as for arsenal, this loss hit me hard, and i don’t know why. I have never experience this pain after arsenal lost for a long time. Maybe, it was because we lost at home to minnows, and not just that, we shot ourselves in the foot.

  45. OleGunner

    If we don’t score in the first 20 minute we look impotent and begin to crumble with misplaced passes and stupid diagonal balls. Other team will hit us with a goal and we’ll flood forward in response only to be hit with another whammy.

    How many more times can we watch the same thing unfold season after season? I’ve watched this move a million times.

    If I managed a team against Arsenal I’d know exactly how to beat them to a Tee. Fucking joke, i feel trapped in purgatory. Man Ure on Sunday will be the ultimate banter mark my words

  46. Dark Hei

    qna

    I think your concept of being “lightweight” is wrong.

    Pep Guadiola assembles a great pressing side out of midgets. And it works because you are pressing, not wrestling the ball. The importance is the mobility and energy levels to maintain the pressing advantage.

    Sanchez, Ramsey, Carzola and Coquelin have them in spades. Which is why our midfield is usually dominant when these 4 play. So it is not the size that matters. If you want to turn it up a notch get a striker like Mandzukic who is a mobile pressing machine.

  47. Ughelligunner

    Olegunner, It’s because we don’t have all round players.

    Our players have too many inconsistencies and they tend to cover for each others lapses.

    We are not a worldclass team yet. And this cost money. Even man city with all their worldies still are not 100percent rolling.

    And again, the premiership is becoming more and more competitive. The big teams are even finding it difficult to be consistent overall.

  48. I am arsene

    Bla bla bla
    We have no right to win every game
    The champs lost to fc Basel.
    We will learn more about this team on Sunday and remember
    We have crashed out at the group stages before and when we do we go on to make a serious title challenge

  49. Emiratesstroller

    I highlighted my concerns about the age of some of the players at start of season when transfermarkt indicated that Arsenal have now the second oldest squad of any of the top teams in EPL. Only Man City have a slightly older squad.

    I suggested also that it was a serious error of judgment that the club renewed contracts of Arteta and Rosicky as well as not offloading Flamini. All three should have been replaced in squad.

    This combined with the long term injuries to Welbeck and Wilshire known
    long before the transfer window closed is a major factor in the shortcomings of Arsenal’s season.

    It is the complacency combined with misguided loyalty in name of so called
    harmony raised at start of season by Wenger, which has contributed to the
    shortcomings of our squad.

    This will be a season where I believe that Arsenal will fail to finish in top 4 of
    EPL and that may be frankly a very good thing. We are in urgent need of management,coaching,scouting and player replenishment.

  50. I am arsene

    We are not a world class team yet
    But once wilshire comes back and starts to dominate the midfield with coq then I feel we will be a lot closer
    Just as playing theo instead of giroud has opened up our game
    However we can’t afford to play Gibbs and ospina any more
    Gibbs is a serious liability. No football brain and a coward of a LB

  51. Sabeel

    why are there inconsistencies?…

    an arsenal player can perform like world class and then bullshit….Why?

    Answer -> No Leader instinct, or ownership

    Difference between technical world class player and winner world class player…is leadership and technical instinct

  52. qna

    Dark: Pep Guadiola assembles a great pressing side out of midgets. And it works because you are pressing, not wrestling the ball. The importance is the mobility and energy levels to maintain the pressing advantage.

    Dark you have no idea I am afraid. The players in the Bayern squad are to a man a league above Arsenals. Their skill level is by far superior to ours and the overall level of their players is supremely higher than ours. If Pep was the manager of Arsenal, his team would be nowhere near as good as his current Bayern side or his previous Barca side. He may do better than Wenger, relatively speaking, but he would not come close to what his current players are achieving.

    Garbage in – Garbage out.

  53. Emiratesstroller

    I don’t think that there is a shortage of skill and technical ability in our squad but THERE IS AN ACUTE SHORTAGE OF LEADERSHIP, BRAIN AND BALANCE in our squad.

    Our defence lacks players who COMMAND the area and defend properly. The
    midfield lacks players who SCORE and the forwards are WASTEFUL.

    From my perspective the Squad lacks balance and the requisite chemistry to
    win key matches. Wenger’s weakness has always been that he fails to recruit
    players who are ‘horses for courses’. He is far too obsessed with his idea of a
    good player.

  54. OleGunner

    Ughelligunner,

    I’d argue some of our players could be world class under the right management.
    We have players like Ox, Ramsey and Wilshere who could be world beaters under proper guidance and its not enough to have a manager like Wenger who says “go out there, have fun and express yourself.” Idiotic management that.

    Men like Pep or Carlo Ancelotti would elevate a lot of these players games with instructions, tactical preparation, supplementing of world class colleagues with the 200 mill in the bank and giving confidence in their abilities. We’d be up top in the premier league by this stage.

  55. Ughelligunner

    Sabeel, inconsistent players are not worldclass players. Even bayern that have worldclass players all over the pitch still struggle with injuries in a less competitive and physical league.

    What do you think would happen, if they are to play sunderland, wolfburg, arsenal, and everton on a five match straight momentum? Just a glimpse of what this league is.

  56. Dark Hei

    qna

    Dude you are the one that claims that being “light-weight” is equivalent to being overunned by physical teams.

    Now you start bringing in concepts like skill.

    Which means you basically agree with me. That the concept of an aggressive pressing team being able to win back possession has little to do with their hulk factor.

    What you are describing is trying to win the ball from the opposing team when you are at a receiving end of a fast break. Assuming that the opposing team is able to get the ball out to a big and fast winger with loads of space to run into. Under those circumstances, you need a stopper with mobility, Coquelin basically to tackle the fella.

    But if you are very good at pressing high up the pitch, you deny the opposing team to play a good outball and prevent that fast break. Which is what Pep and Simeone’s team are excellent at. Look at the pansy, Busquets, I doubt he is a physical tackler.

  57. Emiratesstroller

    I want to add one further point.

    Ospina has been blamed for second goal and quite rightly so, but he is not a bad goalkeeper. Last season he conceded 11 goals in 18 games in EPL in second half of season.

    However, when you have lost your first game in Champions League and the team needs to win the next one you put out your best team for that game.
    Cech would have provided stability.

  58. Emiratesstroller

    Uphelligunner

    I agree that Wilshire, Ox and Ramsey are improvable, but I don’t think that they are world class.

    Nevertheless the point is that for all the rhetoric about Wenger being a great
    manager I feel that he is the major liability to club’s progress and he should go.

    We need a fresh broom.

  59. qna

    Emirates: I highlighted my concerns about the age of some of the players at start of season when transfermarkt indicated that Arsenal have now the second oldest squad of any of the top teams in EPL. Only Man City have a slightly older squad.

    You did. And I agree with you. In fact, I was much more rutheless calling for pretty much an entire rebuild. We should never have re-signed Rosicky (who I adore), or Flamini or Arteta. Even players who I think are still very good like Cazorla, Monreal, Kosceilny and Mertesacker as well as players that still contribute like Giroud are players that we should be looking to sell while they still have good value, in order to reinvest them in equivalent players of a younger age profile – eg., Dybala, Fekir, Hakan Calhanoglu. I would have bought Leno over Cech for the same reason. I think we should have identified a new LB like Baba or Jose Gaya. We should have done the same thing at CB with Romogli or Rugani. I know people here love Chambers and Gabriel (the moneyball signing), but I dont see these as guys who you will ever build a championship winning team around.

    Emirates. I did not share the same skepticism about City as many of on here. I did feel that City had a few too many players that were past their prime. I still do. But their overall quality was still good compared to the rest of the EPL.

    The difference between City’s older players and ours is quite different. The older players in City’s squad – Kompany, Kolarov, Zabaleta, Toure – have all won the league and been pivotal to that success. So it is their “experience” of winning that is valuable – more so than their current technical ability. Of course they need to balance how many such players are needed and I think they have too many. In the case of Arsenal, we dont have this winning experience. Our players are only experts in panic, choking and failure.

    But I do also think City are a long way away from winning the UCL and this is largely due to their age profile. They do have excellent players in the key age bracket of 25-29, but I am not sure if they stack up compared to the other top teams.

    Look at what Bayern have done so well. For their last UCL title they relied heavily on Lahm, Ribery and Robben who were in their late 20s. Now three years on, they probably still rely on players with a similar age profile to three years ago. Now instead of relying on Schwienstieger, Ribery and Robben, they have brought in Costa Koeman and Vidal. They have hardly changed their squad at all, yet managed to keep their age profile (especially in the first team) at that peak age.

  60. OleGunner

    Ughello,

    Your hypothetical of Bayern playing in EPL and struggling is utterly laughable. They would steam roller those teams you mentioned, at Allianz Arena and away from home. Its what WORLD CLASS teams do.

  61. ADKB

    Gooooooooooood morning lovely Super Grovers! Hope you slept well. Maybe we should just tell jokes today?

    Ah, yes there’s the small matter of bagging 0pts (sounds more like Eurovision “null point”) from 2 games and the boss still has belief that with cohesion and mental strength we can still qualify.

    What a sensational year for records this CL has been so far. First win for Dinamo Zagreb at home against an EPL side. First win for Olympiakos here in England. How nice!

  62. warchester

    Let’s face it, the only reason for any of the fans to STILL support the manager is because he’s still the manager and fans cannot do anything to affect that decision directly.

    The AKB argument is that, if you’re against the manager means you’re rooting against the club in terms of results; so just shut the fuck up and show REAL support if/because you’re a REAL fan. It is pointless debating the minute details. You cannot pinpoint to any one cause why the team was so inconsistent over the years. There’s always going to be loopholes/excuses/stats to back Wenger up until he decides he’s had enough.

    So you know, shut the fuck up and be happy with what we have and will achieve.

  63. Dark Hei

    OleGunner

    Bayern will steamroll any league on current form.

    If you try to kick them like Stoke, they will beat you up.

    If you try to be pretty like Arsenal, they will still beat you up.

    If you try to cheat like Chelsea, they will still beat you up. Maybe harder with 10 men, but they will still do it.

    If you try to be arrogant like United, well, we know the outcome.

    The only tactic left is to be useless like Liverpool or Spurs. Heh. Would love to see the score line.

  64. OleGunner

    ADKB,

    Do’t forget Anderlecht 3-3 and Monaco horror show. Truly we are Masters of European football 🙂

    Serious question though, how is Oxlade Chamberlain regressing as a player since the season started? It’s frightening, he looked so good in pre season now it looks like the real game pressure has reduced him to a shell of himself.

  65. qna

    Emirates: I don’t think that there is a shortage of skill and technical ability in our squad but THERE IS AN ACUTE SHORTAGE OF LEADERSHIP, BRAIN AND BALANCE in our squad.

    While I agree with you on your CAPS STATEMENT, I dont agree with you on our shortage of skill. Our most skillful players are Cazorla and Ozil. Firstly Ozil’s movement is second to none. Second, Ozil is supreme when players around him give him good movement. If they make good runs, he is one of the few players on the planet that can put it through the open channel with the right weight on the pass. But if you dont have that other player for him to play with, he is limited. He has to pass the ball backward/sideways to a safe pass, or worst case and the opposition can get close enough to him before he can make that pass, they can strip him of it – like candy from a baby. So ultimately, Ozil needs to play with quality around him. Otherwise, he is limited if not useless. He would do well in any of the top 3 or 4 teams in the world. He would even slot straight back in to Real Madrid, or to this years Champions elect – Bayern.

    Cazorla is much more well rounded. But I feel his legs are gone much like Arteta’s. His supreme skill will see him more useful than Arteta for longer. But the Cazorla from 2 or 3 years ago is gone.

    Sanchez is also an excellent forward. He is not perfect, but probably our most complete player.

    Walcott is a good finisher, and also has an excellent assist record. When he plays as a striker, arsenal are very predictable. His movement off the ball at times is very good, at other times it is terrible.

    Ramsey has excellent movement and invention. I think his skills let him down. I dont think either he or Walcott could play in say a bayern or barca side where they zip the ball around with one touch control.

    Bellerin also very good. I could see him playing at a higher level to Arsenal in a couple of years.

    Rosicky used to be sublime and he did meet this category. But I am not so sure he would any more and even if he did have the skills, would he be able to keep up now? Possibly. He is 35 very soon.

    Wilshere probably does have that skill we are talking about. But its been so long since I have seen him play good football, I am starting to forget what he even looks like. He is the one with smoke coming out of his mouth right?

    Other than these players, I dont agree that our skill level is at all good. Giroud plays some good one-two passes, but is slow and his movement is actually not great. Our defenders are ordinary.

  66. ADKB

    I can’t stand Mourinho’s guts but he’s kinda got a point with “somebody” being untouchable.

    Clearly, something’s going on and it’s unacceptable for a club to stand by a manager who isn’t producing results on the pitch unless the board are only interested in milking the cash cow.

    One bad result after the other. A shambolic management of transfers and players’ contracts. Yet, nobody questions the manager. Nobody challenges the status quo. And some people are furious that there are “so-called fans” who aren’t happy.

    Only at Arsenal!

  67. Emiratesstroller

    qna

    I agree with much of what you have written above. There are far too many players in squad past their sell by date [much like manager].

    You should always keep some players on the books once they reach the age of
    30 so long as they are playing well AND provided that they are not injury prone. However, that was certainly not the case with either Arteta or Rosicky.

    What infuriates me about this season is the fact that Wenger had the makings
    of a half decent squad had he invested in a couple of quality outfield players.

    Everyone in the world apart from Wenger seems to understand that. The fact is that Arsenal chose to hang onto their ever increasing bank balance rather
    than invest.

    Noone would argue that making wholesale changes as Liverpool do is not the
    right way to build a successful team. On the other hand doing absolutely nothing as we did this summer sends out completely the wrong message.

    Frankly I think that Arsenal could have a crisis next summer if we fail to qualify for Champions League. We could land up in secondary European Cup playing on Thursday.

    Also there is a real risk that next summer we may need to replace half a dozen
    players instead of two or three. That is going to be far more difficult, because
    with or without Wenger I don’t see the current major shareholder, board and
    senior management throwing money at problem as Man Utd have done recently.

    The club lacks real ambition.

  68. OleGunner

    I am Arsene,

    You are genuinely deluded my friend.

    The mere fact that their skill, technical ability, finishing, medical competenc and leadership personnel is leagues above anything else in the premier league.

    Throw them in La liga and they would only struggle against Real and Barca who guess what-are on their level!

  69. warchester

    ADKB,

    How are we not producing results on the pitch? we’re in the champions league and only 1 of 4 teams every year that has any glimmer of hope to win the title. That alone is better than 80% of the rest of the league. A 3-2 result isn’t shambolic, it’s a close defeat. Much like 2-1 against zagreb. Get your facts straight

  70. qna

    Dark: Dude you are the one that claims that being “light-weight” is equivalent to being overunned by physical teams.

    No that is not what I call light weight. It means being dominated. It includes being turned over easily in possession, but also includes not being able to get back possession or control of the midfeild. We are always light weight against the top teams in europe and often light weight against other teams in the top 8 in the EPL. Most of these teams do not do it through physical aggression but by playing a style of football that is superior to ours.

    Dark: What you are describing is trying to win the ball from the opposing team when you are at a receiving end of a fast break. Assuming that the opposing team is able to get the ball out to a big and fast winger with loads of space to run into. Under those circumstances, you need a stopper with mobility, Coquelin basically to tackle the fella.

    Please do me a favour and dont make statements on my behalf. I didnt say that at all, anywhere. I can guarantee you that we do not see things in common. Our views are like chalk and cheese.

  71. OleGunner

    Warchester,

    “How are we not producing results on the pitch? we’re in the champions league and only 1 of 4 teams every year that has any glimmer of hope to win the title. That alone is better than 80% of the rest of the league. A 3-2 result isn’t shambolic, it’s a close defeat. Much like 2-1 against zagreb. Get your facts straight”

    Wow this has to be a parody post right?

  72. ADKB

    Warchester:

    If my neighbour’s rubbish at gardening do I just leave my garden unkept? And if anybody asks me, maybe I should just say, “John Smith’s garden’s been overgrown for years and he’s still alive! I ain’t bovverred!”

  73. warchester

    @Ole

    Hahaha, now everybody’s wenger out, all the arguments are all hashed out…kinda bored in here. Take the enemy’s side and see how it’s still possible

  74. Wallace

    qna

    I’m sure Koscielny was getting injured prior to turning 30. as a cb he’s in his absolute prime right now.

    I don’t think the squad is old, as all the guys bringing up the average age are bit part players.

  75. Wallace

    In the middle of moving so only seen the goals from last night. Very poor from Ospina, and then to concede so soon after equalising, but nice to see Theo and Alexis linking up well for our goals.

  76. Up 4 Grabs Now

    Morning all,

    Balls up the transfer window, Check

    Send all the decent youngsters out on loan, Check

    Lose Half your Midfield through Long term injuries, Check

    Leave us adequately short in Midfield & Attack, Check

    Stick with the same Tactics, Training and formation which hasn’t worked in years, Check

    Refuse to play your Number 1 Keeper in the game you need to win to stay in the Champions league, Cech Cech Cech!!!!!!

    Oh Dear…………….

  77. qna

    Emirates. Agree with you and share your fears. Regarding selling 30 year olds. I agree with you as well, we do not need to sell all players once they reach 30. But there is little point having a significant number of 30 year old squad players. This also, protects Wenger from demonstrating how effective his youth development project really is. After all, Ivan Gazidis says this is what Arsenal are all about. So why have Flamini, Rosicky and Arteta, when we should have 3 able youngsters that are going to be our first teamers in 2 or 3 years time?

    For me the talk about age profiles is about being conscious that all players will have a productivity curves over the course of their careers. These curves will generally show a player builds up to his peak and then gradually tapers off. This will be true for goals/assists and other key stats. But also for his fitness. His average speed. Distance covered. Number of injuries. It is impossible to predict these, but it is also not so difficult to have educated or statistics backed predictions. I think when you look back in hindsight over champion teams you look at the squads they had and say, yeah look the team had these players all playing at or close to the peaks in their careers. This is particularly true in champions league winning sides, which is the hardest trophy in the world to win.

    Of course hindsight is 20-20, but the club needs to start thinking about this. It needs to have an age profile (or more importantly a performance profile) in its squad that has a good number of key players in their peak zone of their performance profile. Then this can be supported at either end. Young players, who bring that unpredictability, exuberance and also pressure they older players to keep performing (eg. Bellerin) and who will in the future be the player in his peak zone that will allow future success. Then at the other end, you need a balance of experienced older players. These guys may have passed their prime, but still offer a winning mentality, experience and leadership. You dont want to have too many older players or too many younger players in your overall profile. You could potentially have a team full of 26 year old superstars and that might work out. But they will very quickly age out of their peak zone and you will be left with the problem you wanted to avoid.

    I know this is complete rantings of a frustrated lunatic. But I think there is some very intuitive logic that all clubs effectively follow (whether deliberate or not). At Arsenal, it appears that this type of thinking is not considered. There never seems to be any balance. Worse than this, there doesn’t seem to be any plan.

  78. ADKB

    warchester:

    Hmmm, there’s flowers in B&Q, Homebase, Wickes’ … not even specialist gardening centres. Flowers in those places don’t even cost an arm and a leg! I’m not asking for exotic species that need special care – roses, orchids, chrysanthemum and the like will do.

    I’m not sure we’re even talking about the same garden here, if you’re seeing a pristine, well-kept garden. Sorry, I don’t 😉

  79. ADKB

    Blsany: “LEWANDOWSKI bring your best game.We ain’t scared!!”

    Of course we aren’t scared of another record like 2 double hat-tricks in a single CL game. By the way, has any player ever done that? That sounds like another great trophy for us!

  80. OleGunner

    Warchester,

    “Hahaha, now everybody’s wenger out, all the arguments are all hashed out…kinda bored in here. Take the enemy’s side and see how it’s still possible”

    Did you see any post where I typed Wenger out? I’m in no mood to have that discussion this morning with anyone.

    My response was simply to how embarrassing what you wrote out was, because you’re saying we should just be happy to be in Champs League and the result wasn’t “shambolic”.

    The lack of ambition as an Arsenal fan you can convey in that post is bewildering.

  81. qna

    Wallace: I’m sure Koscielny was getting injured prior to turning 30. as a cb he’s in his absolute prime right now.

    I am sure the frequency of all players getting injured with these types of soft tissue injuries increases in time and the time to recovery for such injuries is also longer. As a CB he is not in the prime of his career in his 30s. Sorry, that is simply wrong.

  82. qna

    Wallace: I don’t think the squad is old, as all the guys bringing up the average age are bit part players.

    Again shows your naivety and knowledge of how a “squad” is needed collectively to win trophy’s.

  83. Blsany

    Solidarity had a bad game
    Cohesion didn’t fare much better
    Why did we sign those two players again?
    Waste of money
    Wenger out now!

  84. Up 4 Grabs Now

    For all you Garden and flower enthusiasts out there.
    Our Garden, has a beautiful Lawn, With No Flowers. Its so perfect you could play football on it.
    Unfortunately there is an old codger, who sabotages our efforts to play on it, Unless your Gnome height with no power or Mental strength, then he doesn’t mind.

    The only exception is a little Gnome Alexis, who has it all.
    Thank god we have him!!!!

  85. ADKB

    That gnome’s rather lonely. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a few flowers? Maybe a small water feature somewhere in the corner … Yeah, there I go, dreaming again.

  86. Blsany

    Anyone else sick of hearing the old ‘PL is entertaining/unpredictable’ nonsense that gets wheeled out all the time? ‘Anyone could win it,’ 3 winners in the last 10 years, same as Spain Germany France and even Italy, ‘exciting football’ the fast play style can be found in Germany and France just as easily. The technical ability of the PL is light years away from La Liga and Bundesliga, to the point where any decent player from either league can join a team and immediately look world class. Silva, Ozil, Mata, De Bruyne, all from Bundesliga or La Liga and looking excellent in a less developed league. Half the teams in the PL have no play style or game plan other than ‘kick and hope’, there’s no real development for English players, the fans in this country are so suckered into the league As Konoplyanka who is a pretty damn good player says, “If I was two-and-a-half metres tall and didn’t know how to control a ball then I may have gone to England…”