Planned incompetency?

by .

Happy afternoon to ya’ll.

Not much floating around the web at the moment. Transfer window is shut. I’ve vented.

What else is there to do other than shut up and support the team?

I guess today we could explore some of the mental theories people have been putting forward for the debacle.

Value of players is wrong:

Arsenal don’t dictate value. The market does. We live in a world of Manchester United. They blew £36m on a teenage striker. This isn’t new. They blew a huge amount 10 or so years ago on Wayne Rooney. There’s nothing wrong with what they’re doing, because they can afford to do it.

Everyone baulked at C Ronaldo going for £80m. But are they now? Everyone choked on Aguerro’s fee. Are they now? Everyone was staggered Madrid paid £75m for Bale, but are they now?

Players hold their value. Even failures. Look at Di Maria. Weak season, leaves for a similar fee a year later.

Value is what the market dictates. Inflation is caused by teams with massive sponsorship deals and the influx of TV money, which means this is only going to get worse. You have to pay what the rate is. The alternative, which is doing nothing, doesn’t win you trophies.

Wenger is doing what’s best for the club:

Winning trophies is what’s best for the club.

Simple as that.

Saving up cash serves no business purpose. It serves no playing purpose. It’s essentially a bad business practice, especially when you don’t have a team capable of winning major honours.

Spending money makes money. United have monster financial power because they spent their way to success. That success attracted mega sponsors. Mega sponsors pay mega money.

So the cycle continues…

Welbeck was kept secret to protect against rising fees:

Look, the premise here has some logic.

If you’re a complete idiot.

Trying to sign a world class player on the last day of the transfer window, in itself, denotes desperation.

Here’s something harsher. Having Danny Welbeck and Theo Walcott in your front line alone tells you that we’re desperate.

Welbeck being injured didn’t affect our bargaining power. It didn’t double prospective transfer fees. It was an out and out lie.

Clubs don’t pick their fee based on your squad. They pick it based on their value of the player and willingness to sell.

Excusing failure:

It’s an Arsenal fan special.

‘Oh Wenger fucked up like he always done? There must have been a special plan there if that’s the case’

Call a spade a spade.

It’s a balls up. If it wasn’t, it’s incompetency.

If your plan is to not address the issues, it’s a stupid plan.

There comes a point when you’ve got to stop trying to shape bad decisions as smart ones or ones that are ok because Wenger has a nice footballing philosophy.

Anyway, I’m off to NY tomorrow. So I’ll stop the moaning. Give me some topics though, it’s hard not to drift back into the Arsene induced depression I meet yearly.

239 Responses to “Planned incompetency?”

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  1. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Tom

    Not fussed
    Jack had so much potential an gave us sonmuch hope…
    Not sure he will be what I an a lot of people hoped he will be,

    Shelvey good player would like him in the squad .

    Loved when he gave it to fergie few years back ..

    Our training methods an outdated
    players probably still forced to take creatin body enhancement which papa loves .
    Barca play pretty football less injuries
    So that do sent qualify your argument ?
    Not sure it’s the football we play that makes the injuries?

  2. tom

    Barca play pretty football in Spain.
    Less competition, less aggressive.

    AFC need a more muscular version if they aspire to that style (which they do), hence the Giroud option.

  3. Bamford10

    Tom

    We:
    – finished 12 POINTS back of Chelsea last season
    – managed one shot on goal against them in our matches w/ them
    – are even farther behind a City team that is BETTER THAN last season’s Chelsea
    – have less class than our rivals at both CF and CDM
    – have unacceptably poor second-choice CDMs
    – have some 140m in cash reserves
    – are the only team in Europe not to sign an outfield player

    It was both a disastrous and a revealing window. Disastrous in that rather than closing the gap between ourselves and the top teams, we allowed said gap to widen. Revealing in that it clearly revealed that Wenger prioritizes his “economic principles” — i.e., his distaste for spending, his belief that the market is overpricing players — over competing for titles.

    So sorry, we don’t buy your lame apologias for Wenger.

  4. tom

    What makes you think AFC uses out of date training methods?
    Is there a modern approach that we neglect? Explain why you think that.

  5. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Tom

    Barca hold the ball better so the other team chasin all the time

    We try that sometimes it works most it don’t.

    If we had athletes in the team it may
    At the moment we have under 12s in a under 16s league in size stature.

  6. Bamford10

    Tom

    Your Giroud point is too dumb for words. If it were necessary to have a “bigger” CF in the EPL — and I somewhat agree it is — Giroud would still be unacceptable, as he is a slow, oaf who can’t create his own chances. There are other CF’s, e.g., Lewandowski, who have size but still have pace, athleticism and dribbling.

    Giroud doesn’t.

    Even a Dzeko would’ve improved us. And by the way, note that Sergio Aguero is the best CF in the EPL, plays there alone in City’s new set-up and is surrounded by mostly Barca-style (smaller, quicker) players. City has select “big athletes” — Yaya, Kompany, etc — but most if not all of their attacking players are quicker, smaller players (though of course an Aguero is quite powerful).

    All of which is to say: you have no point. Giroud is simply not good enough. Not good enough as a bigger CF, not good enough in general.

  7. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Tom
    Ray parlour said

    Some one linked it in other day ?

    Wenger is resting on his laurels of yesteryear

    I loved the first few chapters of his arsenal book but the middle and end are so predictable.

    He should go an not upstairs either.

  8. Bamford10

    RSPC

    Parlour said that Wenger runs the same training sessions he ran “10 years ago.”

    But you can also look at Arsenal players’ physiques and their injury record (worst in the EPL) and see that something is different (and not right) at Arsenal.

    And Wenger should definitely not go “upstairs”: he’ll simply continue to stand in the way of our progress from up there as well. He needs to go far, far away, and have no input whatsoever on the future of Arsenal. None.

  9. tom

    Bamford,
    We have funds but not unlimited.
    We spend when the players we want are available. We don’t spend to keep up with the Jones’.
    Were CFC that much better except for their flying start?
    How are they looking this year?
    City are flying now but will they sustain it?
    AFC can’t spend what City do so must find other solutions.
    We have a conservative approach and are more likely to seek internal solutions.
    We need to accept that we are more akin to spurs and Liverpool financially, though vastly better managed, and to them we compare well.
    We are not in a position to dominate and won’t be as long as some clubs print money.
    So we work within our constraints and do very well, thank you.

  10. Champagne charlie

    Why are we talking about 2010/2011 Ozil? Clutching at straws massively I see…

    Ozil 2015: shadow of 2011. Only relevant observation. To think we bought him following Cazorlas player of the year performance in his debut season when he got 12 goals and 11 assists….

    Ozil hasn’t got near that level of productivity, but he’s dominated the “if you don’t see what he does you don’t know football” tables as a nice deflective tactic. Terrible signing from reactive Wenger.

  11. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Bam

    I know my rant was not pro wenger?

    Years ago 2006 move to new stadium wenger retires an moves upstairs , most of us would hsve had that yeah ?

    Not now

    He still had 90per cent ofvghe same back room staff that he had 15 years ago

    That ain’t right surely ?

  12. tom

    Giroud is no Donkey and on a par with Dzeko. He is an example of flexibility in Arsene’s tactical ideas.
    Aguero is a special player but is fragile as fuck. City are light on strikers in spite of their spend.
    Maybe Pelligrinni trust hid midfield to pick up the slack. Like Wenger.

  13. N5

    “We need to accept that we are more akin to spurs and Liverpool financially, though vastly better managed, and to them we compare well.”

    You are kidding, right?

  14. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Tom

    The whole point was to move away from being like the Liverpool’s an spurs
    We now nick 3-4 mill per home game that why we left the beautiful highbury .

    This is what we wanted to achieve
    We do have the funds
    Plus more

    We are living the dream that the board wanted 10 years ago

    But the fans ain’t .

  15. Bamford10

    Tom

    As I said, we have a 140m cash balance, the largest in world football. Yet rather than improving the quality of the squad this summer — a squad that doesn’t have anything even near the class and athleticism City have — we did nothing. Why? Not because we don’t have much money, as you suggest, but because Wenger doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing — and thinks he can succeed with players like Giroud, Welbeck, Coquelin and Arteta.

    This raises another problem we have, namely that Wenger is not all that focused on competing with the best or with winning titles but is instead happy simply being “in the mix”. That’s his goal: being “in the mix” while holding true to his economic “principles”.

    We do “very well”? Please. We’ve been an also-ran for a decade now, completely irrelevant on the world stage and at times a complete laughing stock.

    Wenger’s approach to both football and spending is outmoded, irrational and counterproductive, and Arsenal will not compete for the title or be relevant in world football again until he is gone.

    This is obvious.

  16. tom

    The Ashburton Grove move was principally aimed at keeping us in reach of United. Chelsea and City were not in the frame. Since their emergence things have changed.

    N5,
    Liverpool and Spurs ARE the closest comparisons. What’s the problem.

  17. tom

    The only reason AFC are richer cash wise than pool or totts is through better management which includes Emirates.
    The only reason CFC and City are richer are because of their owners.
    United are bigger for historical reasons.
    Fact right?

  18. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    All the move has done is make Those who own the club more wealthy .

    Sky money would still be the same had we sum rated at highbury .

    It fullfilled a dream for wenger to build a stadium from scratch

    Football wise it put us back years .

  19. Cesc Appeal

    Tottenham and Liverpool are our closet comparisons…we have a net budget of about £30 Million…wages come out of our transfer budget.

    Heard all of these before, they are just excuses. None of them have much substance.

    No we can’t chuck the money around that United and City can, not willy nilly like they do anyway, we can spend as much as Chelsea though the way they are going right now and far more than Spurs and Liverpool.

    The fact is with £60-80 Million to spend we brought in nobody, that is totally unacceptable.

    You can muddy away by making great sweeping statements about Arsenal’s direction, comparisons and our ethos, but it’s all rubbish, concealer over the cracks that represent the truth you’re too scared to face.

    That maybe, just maybe, Wenger was ‘once’ a great coach, but he’s got old, the game has left him behind and he has no idea now how to wield the power at Arsenal that he helped create and so, it may well be time for him to gracefully step aside and allow a modern, ambitious manager in who’s hungry for success.

    His departure would allow for a total restructuring of the club, a DoF for the first time in 10 years, a changing of the coaching staff that have became stale and stagnant, set in their ways with an inability change.

    Making ridiculous, lofty statements about ‘Arsenal’s class’ or the way we do things, or just flat out wrongful comparisons may help you to put that off, but that’s all it’s doing, don’t delude yourself into thinking it’s truth.

  20. N5

    “The only reason AFC are richer cash wise than pool or totts is through better management which includes Emirates.”

    So they’re not financially similar to us then?

  21. Bamford10

    Tom

    “How can you be more powerful than a team with unlimited resources?”

    Well Tom, how did Atletico manage it just two years ago? How did Dortmund manage it?

    You do it through:
    – great scouting and intelligent signings
    – quality tactics and planning

    Wenger is garbage at both of these things. Yes, it is difficult to compete with teams with more money, but it is not impossible. What we know is Wenger is NOT the manager to do it, as he lacks the skill-set to do it, as the past ten years prove clearly.

  22. WrightIsGod

    Yesterday I write:

    WrightIsGod
    September 4, 2015 10:56:43

    Charlie Austin scored 18 goals for a disgracefully bad QPR team that got relegated. Giroud and Welbeck can’t even do that in a team that wins majority of games, gets majority of possession and chances – a top 4 team.Arsenal fans can turn their nose up to Austin but don’t bat an eyelid when Sanogo is playing against BAYERN MUNICH. Get real. What a joke.

    This is the response I received below:

    @WrightIsGod
    “Charlie Austin is a good goalscorer, but perhaps that’s the problem – he has a limited skills set? Perhaps at QPR, the team is set up in a way that allows him one responsibility which is scoring goals. I think he’d struggle at Arsenal because he’d be expected to do things he is not necessarily good at. For example, what does his link-up play look like? How good is his passing? How intelligent is he in counter-attacking?He may be decent in all of the above, but no one else has bought him this summer. There may be a reason for that? Just a few thoughts to consider.”

    WTF? This is what is wrong with our fanbase. Had it occurred to him that perhaps any success Giroud has had may be down to the fact that he is in a team that creates chances for him. Why can’t the same be done for Charlie Austin or any player at that fact. Since when has being a goalscorer been a detriment for a ST. What a farce half of our fanbase are.

    We need an exorcism at Arsenal to rid us of these fans who have been brainwashed into a Wenger way of spin and excuses.

  23. Marko

    Tom you’re arguing squad and club stability after that poor transfer window is out of the blue and unnecessary. Once we get back to football believe me everyone will support them. But every poor performance, every defeat and even the occasional laboured victory will be met with disdain and what if’s and that’s down to Wenger. He rolled the dice with the squad and he’ll live and die by that sword. Ultimately our season is so predictable we won’t challenge for main honours, even though with a bit of investment we should of, we’ll finish top 4 comfortably mostly cause Liverpool and Spurs are shite and at the end of the season we’ll think of what could of been. Perfect opportunity was this season. You think this summer was tough to buy a striker next summer will be even tougher and also in the next year we’ll have to look long term at replacing Mertesacker, maybe Koscielny and Cazorla too. Only silver lining is it’ll be tougher getting certain players next season but not a new manager. Klopp, Ancellotti maybe a couple others might be available

  24. Follow the money

    Tom Giroud is a donkey. In 3 years with us he’s scored ONE GOAL against a top six team. One goal vs City. And one last minute consolation goal vs Utd when they were ahead 2-0 and residing in 8th place.. He can score against the minnows but even there his conversation rate is poor. He is useless in big games and against big teams. But we don’t need a striker. Right?

  25. Marko

    Making ridiculous, lofty statements about ‘Arsenal’s class’ or the way we do things.

    That’s the untold thinking isn’t it. This Arsenal class nonsense we’re led to believe is to barely spend money and hope our not good enough squad is good enough to placate fans. Honestly Arsenal class died of a little when Bergkamp left and we started playing with inferior players

  26. Follow the money

    Tom moving the goal posts again. Emirates stadiums entire purpose was supposed to be SO WE COULD COMPETE WITH THE BIG BOYS. Remember? But now Wenger doesn’t want to because the price is too high. Get real. If Wenger wants to wage a holy crusade against the free market he should be doing something else besides running Arsenal

  27. tom

    My bio is not relevant but as credentials for my opinion they are as follows.
    Born and bred in North London.
    Schooled at the local Comprehensive.
    First attended Highbury in 1970.
    Followed Arsenal home and away for 20 years before emigrating to the States.
    Watch all the games I can and continue to love and live with my Club as far as time and geography allow.
    I am a believer in Wenger and his vision and ability. I DONT think he is infallible. I do think he has managed the Club brilliantly through the most chaotic period in my football memory and grown the club to heights unknown since the 50s.
    That fact that most here believe we have left Spurs, Liverpool etc behind is ENTIRELY down to Wenger and the board.

  28. reality check

    N5
    September 5, 2015 20:55:30
    “We need to accept that we are more akin to spurs and Liverpool financially, though vastly better managed, and to them we compare well.”

    You are kidding, right?

    I don’t think he is. Tbh. I think He’s right.

    When he says we. I imagine Wenger Ivan Kronke The medical team and the Coaches.

    “We” are in a battle with Liverpool Spurs and mabey UTD for 3rd or 4th.

    City and Chelsea are far gone.

    I don’t agree on the financial side of what toms saying coz its bullshit our money pisses on Tottenhams money.

    But on the pitch. Strictly football. Thats what the club compete for, and thats who we compete against.

    As long as we get 4th minimum, everythings rosey.

  29. tom

    N5
    He bought Peter Czech and three french schoolboys.
    Clearly if he was chasing anybody else they were unobtainable.
    Perhaps somebody arrives at Christmas, perhaps not.

  30. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Tom
    Admire your honesty

    So your in the states good on yer.

    Tom if your in the mood for thanking people for where we are the most important person is Herbert chapman

    If not for that man then the board would not have the power to build. He started the legacy
    All wenger has done is a few poly filla repairs …

    The fact wenger mows belelieved he is more important than arsenal is wrong to me.

    Like the way you argue your cause ?
    Don’t agree but hey .

  31. Marko

    Follow the money,
    Was Emirates started before or after Roman and the Sheiks?
    Is that relevant to AFCs financial power?

    Tom honestly mate what does what Chelsea or City do or spend have to do with us not spending say 20-25 million on a midfielder (Schneiderlin or Krychowiak) or 20-30 million on a much needed striker (Jackson Martinez or Dybala). I will say this though Thomas you’re a lot more civil than that Cech’s hair band fella for what it’s worth

  32. Drey

    I think this “if you can’t see what Ozil does on the pitch then you don’t know football”
    FFS I love Ozil but that doesn’t shy away from the fact that he’s not immune to critism

  33. N5

    Check, I was talking purely financial. We piss all over Tottenham financially I’m confused how tom thinks we’re comparable.

    I love that people will defend their beliefs but when they start fabricating truths to suit agenda, it’s just boring. CBBH can’t stop throwing around insults but at least his arguments are mainly factual.

  34. tom

    Reality check,
    Why does our money piss on spurs’?
    They are are local rivals and draw on the same resources. Just as historied (in their minds anyway) Yet now it is generally accepted that they are inferior to us. Financially it’s indisputable.
    The only reason is Wenger, stadium move and smarter business.
    But spurs have had a dozen managers and spent ridiculously.
    AFC far better managed

  35. N5

    Spot on RSPCA, a famous quote that works perfectly well for early years Wenger would be “if i have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants”.

    Arsenal is no doubt a bigger club since he took over and in a much better financial place and he really did something special early on, but we were not WBA when he took over, we were already a big club.

  36. tom

    RSPC,
    Chapman built AFC but there was Whitaker and Allison and Mee and Graham. Wenger stands shoulder to shoulder with them all .

  37. tom

    I concede Wenger can be thoroughly frustrating and makes mistakes. His manner doesn’t always translate happily but look what he has done.
    He has stuck to his principles as much as possible and delivered top flight football for 20 years. Even his crappest teams had much to be admired
    Maybe I’m too old to believe winning is all.

  38. Marko

    Aren’t we like top 5 or 7 richest or most expensive club in the world or something like that? And we’re comparable to Spurs or Liverpool? Come on. We also don’t have any divine right to think we should be champions or whatever but we should at least compete no? And compete with what we’ve got which we absolutely are not. FFP compliant? Yes. Plenty of funds for a rainy day AND to spend on players? Absolutely. So why just a keeper?

  39. N5

    I didn’t say liar tom that was just your interpretation, I said your facts were wrong. You may have misread or misunderstood.

    But you said we were financially comparable to Tottenham only to say we have more money because of the stadium. So are we comparable or are we richer?

  40. Marko

    I’m actually reminded of that quote from a Batman film about die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain or something. Wenger it shouldn’t be forgotten what he’s done in the past for this club but at the rate he’s going at the last few years he’s gonna be remembered more for some shocking decisions and not spending enough money to make us a truly competitive great side

  41. tom

    Why just a keeper?
    Because at the time of the window nobody else AFC wanted was obtainable. Simple.

    Wenger and whomever studied the possibilities and declined.
    Knowing the shit-storm that would provoke, I admire him for sticking to his guns.

  42. N5

    Marko, I thought the same the other day. He’s going the same way as RVP, Its gone from Arsene Wengers magic he wears a magic hat to booing him after matches.

  43. N5

    “I admire him for sticking to his guns.”

    Amazing!!

    He knew Welbeck was injured, he knew we needed a better striker that L’Oreal. Sticking to his guns, have a day off. It’s incompetence nothing more, nothing less.

    You don’t have to be a sycophant to support Wenger.

  44. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Yeah true tom … He is up with them for sure

    Ironically though only because all what he won whilst still based at highbury
    The home of The Arsenal.

    Imagine if the others had the spending power which he has now , then ?

    Wenger built the stadium but can’t build a team ?

    More of an architect than a manager these days

    My view only

  45. N5

    “We are richer than spurs because of Wenger is my point.”

    OK, and your point?

    I don’t care if were richer than them due to Perry Groves, the fact is we are richer and we could afford to either invest in a striker and a DM or we should have invested in better scouts. We can’t compete with Manure, Chelsea, Citeh sure, but every other team bought outfield players!!

    Our targets we’re not available? then why on Earth were they targets?

  46. tom

    Wenger thinks Giroud is good enough and I agree.
    Tell me N5 , would you do a straight swap Giroud for Falcao?
    Your choice to lead the line vs Stoke…

  47. tom

    N5,
    The others are spending like water and not improving. Spurs were better 5 years ago despite all they spent since. Liverpool blew the Suarez money on bugger all.
    United spent 35 million on a Martial. We spent less than a million on Jeff.
    You love their ambition, I think they have it twisted.

  48. N5

    tom I’m not being rude by not replying but I feel we’re so far divided me and you that there is very little worth discussing together and I really don’t want to go back and fourth or offend you.

    So I wish you well buddy but I’m done thanks.

  49. tom

    There is a limited pool of players with the quality to improve our squad. Talent and suitability are the pertinent qualities. Personality is vital too.
    Out of that pool you have to find a player that wants to come and will accept competition for his place. Once you find your player you have to convince his club to sell. Either they are down or not. You have the choice to make an offer they can’t refuse if you are RA but AFC have to be more careful.
    All this conducted against a backdrop of the continually shifting landscape of TW. Other fatter clubs may want that player too. Parent clubs plans may fail, suddenly your man is off the market.
    It’s tricky as so many fuck ups have prooved.

  50. tom

    Surprising that so many still fail to appreciate Wenger.
    My prediction for the season is AFC finish high in a tight group containing the usual suspects plus maybe an outsider. They could win but are more likely to come 2nd or 3rd. 4th would be disappointing.
    They ought to progress to knockout phase of CL and could get further should the stars align.
    I would be happy with that if we continue to play a sweet game, develop our youth and beat spurs whenever we meet.
    We will build as we go. We can spend freely but must retain our wider ambitions of finding success and stability whilst entertaining our paying fans.

  51. paddy

    Your rant bangs on in typically dumb fuckwit le grove fashion about spend spend blah blah market market blah blah but conveniently ignores the fact the clubs who own the players you have in mind (no doubt cavani and benzema) had neither any desire nor reason to sell. By all means be annoyed we didn’t spend money, I am too, its our money after all, but I suggest you get your toys back in the pram and start your rant again bearing those facts in mind. But I’d course you won’t, that’s tjur schtick after all: blah blah, whinge whinge, let’s not think or consider undeniable facts, let’s just rant and blame arsene. You always talk like 2 FA cups in a row is nothing. It’s not. It’s fantastuc and we’re back. And here’s to supporting us on a push for the league this year. COYG!

  52. Samir

    This squad is going to be seriously old and in need of mass butchering this Summer.

    Ospina replaced by Szczesny (internal = FREE)
    Flamini replaced by Bielik (internal = FREE)
    Arteta replaced by Krychowiak (22M release clause)
    Debuchy replaced by Jenkinson (internal = FREE)
    Gibbs replaced by Ghoulam (10M)
    Mert replaced by Stones (30M+Chambers)
    Cazorla replaced by Wilshere (internal = FREE)
    Campbell replaced by Fekir (40M)

    Add Harry Kane to that list and we’re off! 😉

  53. Follow the money

    I understand Tom’s point of view I just don’t agree with most of it. The players want to win. After their careers are over they want to be able to say they won the big pots. They don’t want to be remembered as part of project youth or some football as art project. Do you think there would be a statue of Henry outside the stadium if he only won an FA cup or two? No way. The fans want to see the club win trophies especially since they pay the highest prices in football. And then we have Wenger who rather than do everything in his power and utilize all the resources at his disposal to deliver trophies we get project after project and excuse after excuse. Apparently that’s OK with some people. To me it’s dereliction of duty.

  54. Champagne charlie

    @steve

    So if you question Wenger you’re better off at the bridge Steve? Sounds logical…

    Wouldn’t just be you showing ridiculous loyalty to someone who’s not earned it the last decade would it..

  55. Leedsgunner

    “We need to accept that we are more akin to spurs and Liverpool financially, though vastly better managed, and to them we compare well.”

    Please tell me we’ve not sunk so low to compare ourselves to Spurs and Liverpool to make ourselves feel better… seriously?

  56. Ankle-biter

    “So if you question Wenger you’re better off at the bridge Steve? Sounds logical…”

    Actually it is quite logical, if you’re a Thomas, the chelscum cunt who got outed and now posts as Steve!

  57. Wallace

    i agree with most of what tom said. Utd have always had the most money(at least until Abramovich & Mansour came along), and throughout the 70s and 80s Liverpool were the best team with Utd, ourselves, Spurs and Everton seen as the other big sides. Everton had some cracking sides in the 80s, with success similar to what we had for a few years under GG, but the fact everyone now thinks we’re on a different plane to Liverpool, Spurs & Everton is down to Wenger.

  58. Thank you and goodnight

    I always laughed at the delusional spurs fans……seems a fair few of our fans are turning just as delusional

  59. warchester

    The conclusion is some of these fans are happy finishing 3rd/4th while waiting for the perfect storm to strike for us to have an opportunity to win the league. In their minds they have concluded we cannot compete with the bottomless pit of money that is City, Chelsea, RM, Barca; so why try? Just wait for the next luis suarez available at 20m and make sure we buy that guy and also hope the squad we have around that time are not totally half-developed players or over the hill experienced players. We’ll win the league just like liverpool almost did 2 seasons ago…No team has a birthright to win the league but most can see we could do better with resources that we have now. How is it possible that a small club like Atletico can compete with Barca and RM in Europe or a club like Juventus that got relegated when we had our stadium years and still managed to be better than us after they bounce back? Pretty sure they didn’t sign any 60m players which wenger claims are the only ones can improve us. He won’t even make small improvements that are needed to ease the burden on some first team players…

    Stop with the financial bullshit…it would be better if we had a manager that finished 5th/6th every season during the stadium years, fire him then hire one that can compete at the highest level and make that step forward when we have the financial resources now. We can compete and do better but we just don’t want to or can’t because of some visionary ideal of football that the current manager has…

  60. qna

    Even if you agree with what Tom says, his claims are outdated. Our current owner Kroenke can take no claim to keeping Arsenal ahead of Spurs and Liverpool. Since he took over there has been a steady and consistant decline. He and the current board have been running this club into the ground. Before Kroenke, yes Arsenal could once have claimed what Tom is saying. But not any more.

    Toms views were once true, but not any more.

  61. Wallace

    since the money dried up in Italy Juventus have been excellent at picking up good players cheaply, and their side for the last few years has been a very good one. but 15yrs ago they were bullying us every summer trying to snaffle Vieira. those days are long gone.

  62. John Jenson's Perm

    The only way the supporters are going to see a change is when Wenger retires in a year and a new modern tactical manager steps in. Simione, Guardiola or Anceletti would be perfect to come in and wake up the team from their pampered spineless coma.
    .But this is just a small part of the overall strategy needed to push Arsenal football club back up to the elite level we once were on.
    You see, the wig wearing dummy shop headed billionaire American owner needs to sell his shares to Usmanov and back to the ranch he came from. Usmanov to then step in and drive Arsenal forward on the pitch by investing in world class players in the areas Wenger refuses to address… But there’s more cancer lurking from within the carcass of Arsenal football club. The Arsenal board of cobwebbed, suited corpses that are mere yes men to Wenger; these need to also leave and take with them their Etonian mysogny, greed and inertia. They recline in their leather padded chairs, drinking brandy and smoking their cigars using the fans money to light it..
    These fat cats are happy to watch their shares grow whilst charging the fans the highest prices in the country. And all the French Bassil Faulty has to do is get fourth whilst hoarding £200m in cash reserves whilst wearing an oversized jacket that like him has long arms but short pockets..wake up! The ‘club’ are in it for business not for the good of the sport.
    But this is all good news, because there’s going to be a huge revolution coming to Arsenal, a real uprising from the fans who after years of dissatisfaction and boredom they will challenge the set up and demand our Arsenal back. Protests, flags and chanting from the crowds;these cries will shatter the Arsenal board’s crystal glasses and a Wenger under pressure and defeated acceptance will depart… So, until then, we should wait for Wenger to come unstuck and slowly destroy the winter of his crumbling legacy.

  63. Wallace

    where’s tunny?

    no doubt sacrificing some Welsh chickens on a hastily constructed altar. will be fantastic if they do go through tonight.

  64. goonerboy

    I agree with some of Pedro’s argument but believe that if the term AKB is now redundant, the term Wenger sheep is more appropriate- because it perfectly describes the Wenger loving apologists who continue to fail to critically analyse anything the manager says or does-

    When Untold Tony and other Wenger sheep sites publish a single word of criticism of Wenger and the Arsenal Board I might think that the term is redundant.
    All you ever read from these sheep are excuses, denial and more lame excuses….baaaaaah!.

    The reason that the outcome of this transfer window was entirely predictable in July- is because there is never any risk that Wenger will fall out of favour by leaving the squad as undermanned as it was at the start of last season. Then as now he failed in the transfer market- yet there is never any consequence for Wenger. There is nothing true about these change averse sheep.

    If Wenger sold the entire team for 2 Bob and replaced the lot with 17 year olds the sheep would continue to give him their uncritical mindless support.- and their money.