Referee cost Arsenal points at Chelsea, simple as that

by & filed under News Review.

Arsenal fans getting to grips with flares, badly via @away_days

Arsenal fans getting to grips with flares, badly via @away_days

I went into the game with a worry and tenseness that always follows me into a major games under Arsene Wenger. Many questions were laid on the table, in the main; they mostly centred on our planning.

Namely, did we do any?

Wenger immediately did his switch from ‘winning formula’ to ‘not so much winning formula’. The Ox was dropped out of the starting line-up, Jack slipped into the midfield with Flamini, Cazorla played in the hole with Mesut outwide on the left. For me, the visible lack of power was a worry.

I’ve not penned a match report, I’ve just penned the points of interest.

Shape

It was clear to me that Arsenal had done some work at the training ground before the game. We held our shape far better than we have done in the last few games against Chelsea. There wasn’t so much bombing forward from the full backs (bar Gibbs who can’t resist), we had a more reserved approach and we were quite happy giving Chelsea the ball for large parts. The fact the game plan didn’t work centred around other items outside our shape / tactics.

Decisions

You know I’m not one for whining about the conspiracy of referees, but simply put, the standard of refereeing was an absolute disgrace yesterday. Games hinge on the whims of these men who are so often destroyers of games it’s embarrassing.

Early on in the game, Cahill scythed down Sanchez in a disgusting challenge that was a straight red. No question about it. The 4th official saw it, he bottled it, Atkinson cowardly ignored the obvious through fear of what Mourinho might say after the game. So Cahill stayed, which meant, Hazard stayed on the pitch… because he’d have been the luxury player sacrificed by the practical Mourinho.

The second half saw another howler when Atkinson adjudged Cesc’s spectacular handball not to be a handball. What is it with refs and handballs? That was so obvious. He saw it clearly. Yet he ignored it. Again, 1-1 makes it a different game.

Also, I know we were lucky not to lose Laurent. But how Calum Chambers was booked is quite beyond me. I know he’s been a bit clumsy of late, but Hazard played for that booking. When you layer his yellow card over the systematic fouling from Oscar (who didn’t pick up a booking until very late), well, you really struggle to work out what’s going on there… other than Mourinho now having the Ferguson fear factor among refs. Which is so pathetic.

I bitch about football managers not using data properly, who is talking to the refs? Who sits down with those guys before a game and says, ‘Look, Jose will set up a team that will disrupt in the final third with niggly fouls. If this happens more than three times in the first 10, tell the captain you’re booking the next foul regardless’.

No one does. The refs are so wrapped up in their own performance, they fail to see what’s going on from a tactical standpoint, so teams can bully, trick and con their way to points.

Mistakes

Both the goals were of our own doing. As with the last game, we lost the ball twice in midfield and Chelsea capitalised. Two stupid mistakes. The first one was Sanchez in Cheslea’s final third, the break wasn’t tracked because we don’t have the right players, Hazard beasted through the middle of our players, Cazorla missed him, then Laurent stuck out a lazy challenge and felled him. No red card which was lucky. Laurent really has been a shower this season, if he doesn’t want to be here, perhaps he should just say. No excusing his attitude of late, he looks totally uninterested.

The second goal came from Santi losing the ball, Cesc launched a long ball George Graham would have been proud of… our two centre backs both dithered… they didn’t drop deep to clear the ball, they didn’t push up to play Costa offside, so he followed the ball, chested it down and flicked deftly over our keeper and that was it. A really pathetic piece of defending from our centre backs… who sadly have no competition to shake things up. Per needs a rest, Laurent needs dropping. Again, total negligence from the manager to not have sorted that massive gap in his squad this summer.

Point is, both of those mistakes were text box. We really shouldn’t be suffering mistakes like that if we have title aspirations.

Squad

Chelsea have a Matic. They have a big huge lump of meat that sits just in front of the back four. He’s explosive over ten yards so he can cover the ground needed to snuff out danger and he’s cynical. Where was our cynical challenge when Hazard broke? Where was our player who would go through the player and the ball to kill an attack? It’s car crash squad planning. We lost two points to City because we lacked a Schneiderlin, we lost at least one goal against Chelsea because we didn’t buy a Carvahlo. It’s been clear for years that we lack power in our side. It’s clear now we lack power. It was clear yesterday we lacked power.

So why is it never addressed?

Substitutes

Again, I know this is to be expected of Wenger and it’s nothing new, but our substitutes at times are completely baffling. The manager takes off Santi Cazorla and Jack Wilshere and leave on Flamini and Ozil. What’s he thinking? He should have yanked the very average Flamini and Ozil who was having a terrible game again. Even pulling Sanchez, a striker who goes to war everytime he plays shouldn’t have gone off. Wenger really does have a blind spot when it comes to subs. It’s like he makes the decisions based on how much he likes a player, rather than what’s going on in front of his eyes.

Arsenal in final third

We had possession in spits and spats but we didn’t make enough of it in the final third. Jack Wilshere wasn’t great yesterday; his touch let us down badly when he had a clear run of goal. He was wasteful with his passing at times. Ozil was an absolute passenger out there, he really is starting to look every inch the panic buy he was. Again, someone needs to have a quiet word with him about what it is to play for the The Arsenal. Bench him, no one is bigger than the club. Welbeck didn’t get into the game and overall I’d say we were too fussy in their half. We’re playing the same style we did last season when we have players that allow us to be more direct and quicker on the counter. Our front three really doesn’t have any sort of balance at the moment.

Wenger record

It’s really weak against Mourinho. 12 without a win. It’s quite unbelievable Wenger still hasn’t turned him over. The fisticuffs during the game at least showed a manager who cared. I mean, Jose asking the ball boy to hold onto the ball after the first minute and all the rest of the nonsense is just typical scumbag Jose. The idea that the fat little waiter sitting next to him would take on Steve Bould is quite hilarious.

Back to the game, Wenger is usually pretty easy to set up against, not yesterday. He did some homework yesterday, but he was still found out because he didn’t do his homework in the summer and build a decent squad capable of going toe-to-toe with the top guns. We’ll always fall down with Wenger because he’s not elite anymore. However, at least he gave it more of a go yesterday. There are smatterings of progress, even though those progress moments only tend to come when he’s on a very bad run.

Challenge

I think we’ll still make top four. We were never in the title race. So yesterday was an expected loss. However, if we can get into our stride, continue to do our preparation on the opposition and find something to make the fans smile, I’ll be happy enough. I know the limitations of the manager, I’ve accepted them so I’ll be pleased if we just improve on last season.

Flat ambition, I know. But what’s the point in hoping for the impossible? What’s the point in arguing with people who don’t see it? Because to be honest, if you can’t see the decline in our manager compared to others, you’re either lying to yourself, blind or you’re just playing up to a character you’ve carved yourself online.

Still, good news is on the horizon. Once Ramsey and Theo come back into contention, we’ll be a different side. Having options like Debuchy and Giroud will also give us more quality. I don’t think our crocked right back would have given Hazard such an easy ride yesterday. A Giroud would give us something from the bench we don’t get from Lukas. Finally, at left back, I’m really struggling to see what Gibbs gives us at the back or going forward. Monreal isn’t fashionable, but I think he’s a better left back than Kieran, way more fight.

Conclusion

An expected defeat but one which mostly hinged around terrible standard of reffing in this country. Chelsea didn’t look like future Champions yesterday, they looked like a team that’s set the pace early that could struggle if they pick up one or two injuries over the next few months. Then we’ll see the whinger of a manager they have self-destruct in cry baby fashion like he did last season.

That’d make me smile…

Right, have a great day!

P.S. Arsenal fans letting a flare off… in the bar. Come on guys, lift it!

Also, if you want more of this, but on Twitter, click below.


644 Responses to “Referee cost Arsenal points at Chelsea, simple as that”

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  1. Romford Pele

    Can’t stand Mourinho but he really is ace in the big games. Got the blueprint right of beating rivals at home and avoiding defeat away (win if you can). Only manager that’s ever really bent him over backwards is Pep. Special one tag has probably taken a bit of a battering in the last few years so he’s eager to put that right. Chelsea looking very good.

  2. Vintage Gun

    “The push wasn’t even effective!”

    It was. Watch it again. For a split second Jose thought he was timber,but managed to tense his back foot at the last to maintain his balance and thus keeping his “special ego” intact.

    Wenger just lacked the technique and conviction to follow through.

  3. salparadisenyc

    RR

    I took my lil ones to the zoo!

    Have to pick my battles, watched the first 10 and it looked promising. Got a text from the boys about the pk and realized i’d made the right choice. Saw it on the DVR last night, felt quite familiar.

    Wenger’s biggest challenge with the players we have is figuring out how to get the best out of Ozil, for me that means playing him in the middle full stop.

  4. salparadisenyc

    On the plus side I text Ahern a few snaps of the Giraffes and he thought it was quite impressive I managed to capture Mert looking “that mobile” and effective under pressure.

    Kids can be ruthless.

  5. MidwestGun

    Anyhow, I’m pretty despondent but I have a family thing today and have to go hang out with my brother the Chelscum fan. The annual abuse will continue. Hopefully, I don’t do something I regret. Lol

  6. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    Well then, that whole “drives us forward/is not a liability in possession” issue is not so much put to bed as much as having downed a nice mug of coco, tucked all in and had a nice bed time story before falling into a long, long, deep sleep!

  7. leprofessorknowsbest

    “I took my lil ones to the zoo!”

    They are going to be terrified when they’ll see arsène…
    Please don’t throw peanuts.

  8. NYCgooner

    Its always fascinating to see the different points of view that come from everybody watching the same game. I thought the team worked hard but really lacked the cutting edge in the final 3rd. Also interesting after speaking to a number of chelsea fans is that they thought we played the better stuff for much of the game and actually they were lucky to come away with a win. They felt a draw would have been the deserved result.

  9. Romford Pele

    “Anyhow, I’m pretty despondent but I have a family thing today and have to go hang out with my brother the Chelscum fan. The annual abuse will continue. Hopefully, I don’t do something I regret. Lol”

    I don’t envy you. My sister’s birthday this weekend. Have to see that smug chavy Chelsea c*** that is my brother-in-law. I’m so tempted to deck him.

  10. Thank you and goodnight

    @Alexander Henry

    Well my opinion is that wenger is a washed up senile has been old fool who was and never will be anything more than an average manager.

    As for Ozil, he’s realised that he’s been had by wenger and woken up to the fact of how shit a manager Wenger is. Put him with a better manager you’ll see the best of him, e.g gervinho.

  11. Romford Pele

    “Also interesting after speaking to a number of chelsea fans is that they thought we played the better stuff for much of the game and actually they were lucky to come away with a win.”

    Lucky? Not really. Chelsea are just more decisive than us. Defend and attack better as a unit, it’s not like yesterday was a first either. I’ve seen yesterday’s film about five times before.

  12. Leedsgunner

    It occurs to me Özil was the player we needed before Cesc and Robin left… it would have been perhaps enough to convince them of our title ambitions (Robin anyway – I think Cesc was a lost cause as soon as Barça came calling). Very much too late. Can imagine the chaos we would be creating with RvP in the form he was in with Özil supplying him?

    If Özil goes I for one will be very disappointed. It will be like taking two steps forward only to be shoved 3 steps back.

  13. salparadisenyc

    My oldest is three, been to the Emirates twice. Kids more interested in the meat pie than Wenga. One overpriced the other over payed.

  14. NYCgooner

    Couple other take-away’s from the game

    ) Wilshere had a poor first half but was much better in the 2nd half (future english captain) The boy takes shit from nobody which is what one of the things this team lacks.

    2) Cazorla was having a great game and never backed down from the bigger chelsea players.

    3)Ozil wasn’t as bad as everyone is saying although he had some bad moments.

    4)Kos has been our best player this season. Don’t know how anybody can say he’s been poor.

    5) Flamini was one of our better players yesterday. We criticize him a lot around here. Only right we give him credit when he does well.

  15. Cesc Appeal

    Chelsea lucky?
    Draw a fair result?

    Were these Chelsea fans who didn’t watch the game and spoke to GeoffArsenal for the analysis or something?

    No way at all.

  16. NYCgooner

    Romford

    Two areas where Chelsea was clearly better than us was in their defending as a unit. Their back 4 and matic have a good feel for each other. 2) Their were more clinical in the final third. Other than that i felt we gave a good account of ourselves but just lack the the final ball on many occasions.

  17. Cesc Appeal

    Gotta disagree again, I think Ozil was ABYSMAL yesterday.

    I’ve defended him for a long long time but that was horrendous yesterday and illustrated why I said he should be dropped for this one all week.

  18. Leedsgunner

    No use shoving Maureen on the touchline — who give one toss? If he wanted to outsmart Maureen, maybe he should have prepared his lads more, considered his tactics more, recruited a decent DM and a CB… no use getting into a shoving match, which was probably just a show for the cameras in any case.

    Although I suspect if Maureen met Wenger in a dark alley, Maureen could probably whoop him anyway.

  19. Radio Raheem

    Sal

    Sounds like you all had a great time. Definitely the right decision. I was at a different kind of zoo – the Church – together with others seeking redemption for our entrapped souls.

    I mostly agree with your analysis of Ozil. The only issue is, and I think Wenger thinks the same, that Ozil in the middle against the big sides would leave us open. When he plays wide he can float into the middle. I guess it all boils down to having that beast holding player we’ve all been calling for. Until then we have to endure Ozil wide in the big matches.

  20. Cesc Appeal

    But fans are talking about this as if we’re a mid-table side who gave a scrappy, ballsy performance against Chelsea and ONLY lost 2-0.

    For fuck sake what’s happened to this club and it’s fans.

    When I was walking out of that dire NLD hearing fans go “at least we’re still unbeaten.” They’ve lowered themselves to a Spurs like level of expectation and putting UCL on a pedestal just so they don’t have to criticise!

  21. tunnygriffboy

    Mid

    Obviously agree we need better in CDM. I don’t feel we were shredded though. Hazard produced bit of excellence and got a penalty. I don’t remember them constantly running at us though. I thought we had a better shape than we’ve had in ages. There were only 2 clear cut chances in the game and they took them.

    Think Pedro’s point about the ref was that the Cahill tacklecould have been pivotal in that Hazard would have likely to be sacrificed. Not saying Kos should have stayed on either. Think he thought Atkinson bottled it.

    Ps. Apparently Sanchez legs and ankles are shredded after yesterday.

  22. salparadisenyc

    Wenger’s record vs Mourinho tells you all you need to know about adaptability, the man operates with horse blinders on. Does similar regarding transfers. To call it bad luck is naive to say the least.

  23. Romford Pele

    “Romford –
    You have my sympathy also. Family eh? What you gonna do. 🙁
    But if my bro is wearing a Fabregas shirt, all bets are off.”

    Lol Mid, doesn’t help that the whole family love him. Very well-paid accountant. C***
    Tried persuading his son to be a Gooner but that didn’t really work! I say knock your bro out 😀

  24. NYCgooner

    Cesc

    I do remember we discussed dropping ozil last week and you came to mind when watching the game. I still think it was the right decision playing him but i would have preferred if he played in the hole with ox on the wing instead of caz to start the game.

  25. Carts

    The only person on the pitch, yesterday, who came close to bettering Ozil’s performance, or lack of it, was Schurrle. I like Schurrle, but he plays like he’s got one eye on Mourinho lol.

  26. Cesc Appeal

    A club with £200 Million in the bank, a higher wage bill than our oil money adversaries yesterday and we’re talking about it in positives because we didn’t get shredded and gave a good account of ourselves. (Not sure we did anyway.)

    Just say, the club is not being run well enough with the resources available and the resources actually being used so that a result like yesterday is predictable and standard.

  27. Romford Pele

    NYC – Sorry I have to disagree with you there and back CA.. Gave a good account of ourselves?! Are we Hull/Stoke? We looked toothless in attack despite having very expensive players. First game since 2003 where we didn’t have a shot on target, that’s extremely poor. Listen, I can’t fault the workrate/endeveaour but that’s the minimum I expect from us. We are The Arsenal FFS!

    Obviously I didn’t expect us to win but when Wenger spouts BS about it being difficult to find better players than what we have, it’s hard to take him seriously. He bores me.

  28. tunnygriffboy

    Leeds.

    Not sure about Mourinho v Wenger in an alley. Don’t forget this is the guy who poked Villanova in the eye from behind then ran away. He may be a great ruthless manager but he’s also an unbelievable shyster.

  29. MidwestGun

    I only got a brief moment of joy from grandpa pushing Mourinho(fuck off), because at least AW was demonstrate some fight. Then he just took it to a petty level by refusing to shake his hand and blaming financial clout, etc…

    plus who really wants to see grandpa in a brawl? I don’t.

  30. Vintage Gun

    @Midwest

    Just lock your bro in the bathroom and squeeze off four. You might lose your Armani modeling contracts, but jail time will be minimal,if any.

  31. Romford Pele

    Nah I think Mourinho is a bit of a p**** really. You can see it in his football, even though his team gets results. Imagine running into Roy Keane in a dark alley…. F*** that!

  32. Cesc Appeal

    NYC

    I just worried all week that would happen, Matic, Terry and Cahill would know that rough him up a bit and he’ll fade out of the game totally.

    Fabregas also chased him down, I think he felt he could make a point by crunching Ozil.

    I mean between the two of them right now there is no contest. And if an Arsenal fan was truly, truly honest he’d swap them.

    I would. And I’ve been a proper Ozil defender. He’s quality. He’s not being helped in the slightest by Wenger’s baffling “tactics” but still, he needs to show fight and desire and contribute.

  33. N'Gambo

    Ozil is on strike and wants to leave

    Podolski couldn’t give a shit on £90K a week

    Koscielny’s on a promise from a big European club (Christ, if Vermalen went to Barcelona …)

    Arteta, Flamini, and Rosicky are all over the hill

    The whole Diaby thing needs an inquiry (does he give Wenger a chunk of his weekly wages?)

    The injury list is a fiasco

    We panic buy on the last day of the transfer window (Ozil, Welbeck, Per, Arteta)

    And how Wenger got a 3 year £24m contract for this endless confusion, mediocrity, and total bullshit? There’s got to be something corrupt going on …

  34. Cesc Appeal

    I don’t ever, EVER want to hear the phrase “we gave a good account of ourselves” used in conjunction with Arsenal. EVER.

  35. Leedsgunner

    Cesc @1451

    it’s the rewriting of history… the history of despite everything we should be eternally grateful because WEnger has kept in top 4 as well as broughht us a top stadium.

    My contention is this… what was the top stadium for? Wasn’t built to allow us to compete with the top sides not only in the EPL but world football?

    Apart from the Man City performance which was a good game for us, every time we’ve come up against a decent organised side this season we’ve struggled.

    the FA Cup was just a silver plaster to the gaping hole in the heart of our club. It’d not just the manager anymore, the Board needs a complete overhaul too.

  36. Jim Lahey

    Does anyone think Refs deserve one ounce of respect from players or managers? Martin Atkinson is incompetent, showed it again yesterday, I don’t see how he could demand respect off anyone to be honest.

  37. Carts

    A few times I caught Bould’s grid in the back ground and the guy literally looks like he sitting there collecting a fucking salary for absolutely nothing. I genuinely wonder if Bould tells Wenger when shit isn’t working. Or has he’s role become so redundant that he just rides the waves.

    Quick dash over to Chelsea’s dug out and you had a squad of management there. Even saw the Eneamo fella in the background.

    Oh, as we already know, Wenger doesn;t do Sporting or Football Directors. Instead he’d rather have all the power to totally wreck his own legacy. I suppose when he finallyu leaves, he won’t be able to blame the likes of Bould and Gazidis for undermining him.

  38. TitsMcgee

    For fuck sake what’s happened to this club and it’s fans.”

    It’s like people got so invested in Wenger 10+ years ago that now letting go and coming to grips with reality is impossible for some.

  39. Cesc Appeal

    Honest question. If you could show Mourniho levels of ruthlessness and get good prices for Ozil and Wilshere would you sell them and fund moves for say guys like Reus, Schneiderlin, Khedira and a class CB in the summer/January?

  40. Cesc Appeal

    Leeds

    I think we’ve been dire this year. Slow, lacking direction, weak (even more so than usual!) – two good games spring to mind both the 4-2-3-1 games. City was a decent showing but same failings came back to bite us. E.g no strength, no leadership, inability to see a game out, no discipline, no structure.

  41. NYCgooner

    Romford

    I didn’t expect us to win but i wouldn’t haven’t been shocked if we did either. Chelsea are currently the in-form team at the moment and have been beating other teams convincingly with a full squad and without any significant injuries before Cortuois(sp?)yesterday. They didn’t wrap the game up until late into the second half.

  42. Jim Lahey

    @CA – I actually would have been tempted to sell Wilshere last summer, maybe liverpool or Southampton would have dropped 25m on him, then I would have turned around and gave that moeny to Barca for Cesc. Both home grown, one a lot better than the other.

  43. Cesc Appeal

    Jim

    Pure hypothetical here. Just asking to raise an interesting aside. Because I think Mourinho turning Mata and Luiz into Fabregas, Matic and Costa was genius and ballsy.

    If I could turn Ozil and Wilshere in Reus, Schniederlin, Khedira and a starting CB (not that we need to sell to buy but…) I would. I really think I would.

  44. Romford Pele

    NYC – I would’ve been shocked, mate. Our record against the big teams the last 5 years is nothing short of disastrous – seen nothing to really suggest that would change.

    “They didn’t wrap the game up until late into the second half.”

    Yeah but despite the possession (which was futile IMO), did we ever look like scoring?

  45. Carts

    CA
    ____

    I like Wilshere and I think the problem, like so many have said, is that Wenger doesn’t know what to do with him or where to play him.

    The lad is on, what, £80k p/w, for why exactly? because he (and Gibbs) are Wenger’s pitiful results of youth development and he’s English.

    Sitting her now, I’d get rid of Wenger before I will Wilshere and Ozil.

    With that said, I’d get rid of Ozil before Wilshere.

    Ozil out, Reus in. Flamini and Arteta out, Schneiderlin/Carvalho/ Khedira in.

  46. Jim Lahey

    @CA – “If I could turn Ozil and Wilshere in Reus, Schniederlin, Khedira and a starting CB (not that we need to sell to buy but…) I would. I really think I would.”

    Yes I would too.

  47. NYCgooner

    Until the team has all the right parts and star jelling,we will have to put up with them giving a good account of themselves on occasions.

  48. salparadisenyc

    Cesc

    I’d sell Wilshire in a heartbeat, Ozil not yet.

    As RR stated earlier and I agree with it, we need “that” player covering the back four to get the most out of him in the middle. I’ve not fallen out of love with Mesut just yet. As for the others mentioned, Reus should replace Podolski, Scheidelrin and another option.. I’d prefer Carvalho to Khedira for Arteta and Flamini. CB needs addressing while were at it.

    This makes my balls tingle and I think the double pivot of Ramsay and Schneiderlin could be a very good thing, sos long as one holds. For a game like yesterday put Cavalho in.

    Schneiderlin/Carvalho Ramsay
    Sanchez Ozil Reus
    Welbeck

  49. Leedsgunner

    Khedira would be a worry for me considering he’s been ravaged by injuries lately.

    I’m with Jim, I would keep Özil as our no 10 BUT to keep him fresh I would sub him in with Cazorla. Then in the January I would sell Wilshere for £25m I would. Then I would use that £25m then add £25m to get Pogba. If Pogaba was not available I would approach Juventus to see if they would be open to Wilshere plus £10m cash deal for Vidal.

    Vidal can play anywhere and he would also bring the very best out of Sanchez. Khedira worries me simply because he’s been so badly shaken with injuries.

  50. Bergkamp63

    alexanderhenry October 6, 2014 14:22:07
    “Odd article pedro. You are right to point out the appalling refereeing, but we played well and you know it. However, you’ve invested so much time and energy is slating wenger, you cannot bring yourself to praise him when its due. The tiny crumbs of credit you do bestow on him are so begrudging they come out like stools after a severe bout of constipation. The catchphrase for this blog is ‘where you can have an opinion , not get one’. Really? As long as it’s an anti wenger opinion I suppose”

    You’re right, we only lost 2-0 instead of 6-0, congratulations Arsene on the 200% improvement,

    Now just off out to the shops to get extra bunting to put up !

  51. Romford Pele

    Leeds – tbh I’d worry about Vidal as well. United didn’t sign him because of concerns over his knee. Was injured in the WC, still seems to be getting injured now. And like Khedira, do you want to be offering such a big deal to a person in their late 20s. For me, L. Bender/Kondogbia/Schneiderlin/Carvalho/Capoue.

    And to answer Cesc’s question, i’d sell neither.

  52. Keyser

    “CA – “If I could turn Ozil and Wilshere in Reus, Schniederlin, Khedira and a starting CB (not that we need to sell to buy but…) I would. I really think I would.”

    It’d be pretty pointless, the whole point is, has been, will be, is we need to add to this team, take out Wilshere and Ozil and you’re moving back another two spaces, and replacing them with 2-3 players who either haven’t ever played at the right level in Schneiderlain, or haven’t played in the league, or have questionable injury records.

    Mourinho wasn’t especially ruthless, he had a 40 million pound player in Mata, decided he didn’t fancy him and swapped him for a player who we’d spent 8 years developing for the league.

    It isn’t that Fabregas has been exceptional, it’s that Mourinho’s basically parachuted him into the team he left us with.

  53. Cesc Appeal

    Carts

    Yeah. I just said it purely to see what people thought. I too would like to see Wenger go before I’d sell a single player, but that ain’t happening.

    Sal

    Yep, as we said all summer, and will likely continue to point out all season long.

  54. Cesc Appeal

    Leeds

    Hasn’t Vidal suffered with his knee lately?

    My number one buy would be Martinez…but again, ACL busted.

    Watching Matic for me just highlights everything our squad is lacking and will continue to lack under Wenger.

  55. salparadisenyc

    Cesc

    Indeed.

    Keyser

    Selling Mata and doing this: “It isn’t that Fabregas has been exceptional, it’s that Mourinho’s basically parachuted him into the team he left us with.” Not to mention putting Cech on the bench and bringing back Courtois, selling Luiz and using the money quite effectively to secure Costa and keeping it all well within FFP.

    Pretty ruthless IMO

  56. NYCgooner

    Romform/ Cesc

    Consider my point of view for a moment before you dismiss it out of hand.

    We all agree we are short of about 3 quality players. I think we would also agree that we made 5 quality additions this year. Wenger is not gonna bring it 8 or 9 players in one window (spurs). Frustrating as it is, (believe me i am) this is a long haul view with the way Arsenal does business. A number of contracts are expiring soon and there are still significant squad changes coming when those players are replaced. If we take that point of view I think you will understand why i say we gave a good account of ourselves. Its clearly not the finished article out there. Even for this season.

    Besides, the season is long and there will be lots of twist and turns before a champion is crown

  57. Cesc Appeal

    RS

    Pogba will go for a fortune I think. I think City might try to offload Yaya to someone and grab Pogba.

  58. Cesc Appeal

    NYC

    No sorry.

    You’re looking at it over one summer, we’ve needed a CDM since Song left, we’ve needed a ST since RVP left. We’ve had problems in terms of defensive organisation and being bullied for more years than I care to remember. Not having “the squad” isn’t a new feature of Arsenal – and it’s always next year, next window, Wenger has a plan…no he doesn’t.

    And again I stress, I never, ever want to hear phrases like “we gave a good account of ourselves” used with regards to Arsenal. We may as well throw in the towel. That’s something you say about a team you knew had no hope of a win, way way out of its depth but did surprisingly better than you thought and kept the score down.

  59. Romford Pele

    NYC – DM was/and has been the most important position for quite a while. Ignoring that is pure negligence just because we have numbers in midfield. Put it this way, I love Alexis, and i’m glad we got him. But if it was a choice between him or Lars Bender/Kondogbia, I know what i’m choosing.

    It’s just the constant transition/evolving which f***s me off. We got 79 points last season playing 4-2-3-1. We were hammered in big games but only finished 7 points off. We needed a little nutella around the middle of the team, not a system change to shoehorn personnel in and try to make it work. It’s BS. Like I say, tired of the way Wenger operates.

  60. goona

    We can buy and sell who we like, the bottom line is if wenger still here were fucked…how many players has he fucked up?

  61. Radio Raheem

    The one surprise for me was that Chelsea still looked solid even with Cesc and Oscar playing centrally.

    Looking at the personnel the difference wasn’t that big. For their Hazard we have Sanchez; Cesc for them Ozil for us; Oscar for them Cazorla for us; Koscielny over either of their CBs and there it stops. From the little I have seen of the match and the players on either side there wasn’t/isn’t a gulf between us.

  62. NYCgooner

    Romford/Cesc

    Damn that was quick…….lol

    I agree totally about the DM and other defensive issues. In terms of the way the team is being built, we’ll agree to disagree.

  63. salparadisenyc

    “We needed a little nutella around the middle of the team, not a system change to shoehorn personnel in and try to make it work.”

    THIS

    Going to be the metaphor of the season, unless were able to hang tight until January and pull off a coup and i’m not thinking Kimmie K. In reality it will not happen.

  64. Cesc Appeal

    RP

    This is it for me.

    Speaking to my mate on the phone after the match I said “I’m bored of Arsenal. Every year it’s the same. And every year you have to hear the same tired excuses about why we didn’t do this, why we don’t have that, what went against us.”

    And now I’m starting to hear Arsenal fans use expression like we gave a good account of ourselves and the like. The dumbing of standards is now complete, the ambition level has been lowered for no other reason than those fans not wanting to criticise Wenger.

    Every year I feel my interest and love for the club waning. The Wenger Agenda is put ahead of Arsenal and that is what upsets me most, by him and by the fans.

  65. Radio Raheem

    We are getting less than the sum of the parts of the team imo. I’m sure we can all guess why that is but the sooner that changes the better.

  66. Keyser

    salparadisenyc – Yeah, but pity or compassion don’t come into it, it’s Chelsea, he can afford to make choices with indifference because that’s the environment they’ve bred, when you’re 36, and on 170k a week, it doesn’t especially matter, you can’t turn around and say ‘But, I’m Frank Lampard, you owe me..’

  67. Thomas

    “but we played well and you know it.”

    ___________________________________

    Yeah we played so well that we managed to get a total of ZERO shots on target. Great performance.

    Mentally handicapped cunts…

  68. Leedsgunner

    “We can buy and sell who we like, the bottom line is if wenger still here were fucked…how many players has he fucked up?

    Nailed hit on the head, well said goona.

    Romford

    Fair point about Vidal, not that he would come to us with us languishing where we are anyway. Juventus to Arsenal (under Wenger’s so-called leadership, what a complete let down.)

  69. Cesc Appeal

    RR

    I think this side is a lot, lot better than it’s being made to look.

    I said last week I’d be genuinely curious to see what a better manager would get out of this lot.

  70. Romford Pele

    Cesc was very disciplined. Didn’t do much bar the assist. Oscar is a rare breed of AM, loves a challenge puts himself about but is still very elegant on the ball, too.

  71. Romford Pele

    Cesc, as has been said, we have good players. I think another manager could eek out more personally. Want a style change. Add that nutella in the middle and at the back and you’re laughing IMO.

  72. Keyser

    “But if it was a choice between him or Lars Bender/Kondogbia, I know what i’m choosing.”

    If it was a choice, and next time when Giroud’s up front and you’re whinging your bollocks off, you’d be content with a little nutella in midfield, the sweet mind mannered Italian, who gives us a bit more solidity.

    If we can blood, Wilshere, Ramsey, Ozil, Sanchez, Weleh, and Ox, get any sort of consistentcy together then add the sort of DM we want, it’d make it that much easier in my view.

    Of course we could fall out of the top 4 and start selling everone off.

  73. Goongoonergone

    I’m sorry Pedro, I can’t agree it’s the referee’s fault. All teams get done in by refs at times. We didn’t muster a decent shot on goal. That tells you all you need to know about Wenger and hsi philosophy.
    The real reason that Wenger cannot defeat Mourinho is because Wenger is a tactical imbecile and all good managers know it. We have played three top teams – Dortmund, City and Chelsea and two top seven teams – Spurs and Everton. No win yet. No referees decisions to consider there.
    All the idiot Arsene Knows Best lovers, ask yourselves why Wenger has not defeated any worthy opponent thus far.
    The man is a 8 million pound a year fraud whinging about Chelsea’s and City’s money and ‘financial doping’ while us Arsenal fans are being fleeced with the highest prices to pay for a past- his-sell-by-date manager and the wage bill of a team that is more than Chelsea’s wage bill.
    Wenger reminds me of an old computer that has stalled because it does not have the capacity to upgrade nor install the latest apps.

  74. Cesc Appeal

    RP

    I wasn’t sure Oscar would fit in this league. Small stature and what have you, but puts in bundles of effort and isn’t afraid to get stuck in. Ozil take note

  75. NYCgooner

    Cesc

    What you consider dumbing down of the standards might actually be having a realistic plan or a perspective that’s not in line with your point of view.

  76. Romford Pele

    Feyenoord and Twente have both asked about Akpom. Either would be good for him IMO. Needs the experience.

  77. Leedsgunner

    Romford

    “It’s just the constant transition/evolving which f***s me off. We got 79 points last season playing 4-2-3-1. We were hammered in big games but only finished 7 points off. We needed a little nutella around the middle of the team, not a system change to shoehorn personnel in and try to make it work. It’s BS. Like I say, tired of the way Wenger operates.”

    You and and me both mate. Always tomorrow but tomorrow never comes.

  78. Keyser

    “Mentally handicapped cunts…”

    Chelsea had 2 shots on and off target, we supposedly had 10 off, though the commentator did mention our 1 shot on target in the 90th minute.

    Also don’t be fucking rude you little cunt.

  79. Romford Pele

    “If we can blood, Wilshere, Ramsey, Ozil, Sanchez, Weleh, and Ox, get any sort of consistentcy together then add the sort of DM we want, it’d make it that much easier in my view.”

    Might’ve been a good idea to add that DM in the summer while we were faffing about with Sanogoals…

  80. goona

    I also believe the longer wenger stays the harder it will be to atract top players to arsenal, we are quickly rolling down the hill of mid table mediocrity

  81. Romford Pele

    “You and and me both mate. Always tomorrow but tomorrow never comes.”

    And these times there’ll be an unnecessary 3% increase in ticket prices which Kroenke will then extract from the club. #facepalm

  82. Leedsgunner

    “Mentally handicapped cunts…”

    exactly why WAS this comment necessary? How does it strengthen one’s argument?

  83. andy1886

    “McDermott becomes a scout for AFC. Weird one that.”

    Nope, two years and eight months to prove himself a better manager than AW. Should be apparent by Christmas 😉

  84. NYCgooner

    Cesc

    I’m sure that’s certainly a part but like most disputes in life, the truth is usually in the middle. Wenger has done a lot I personally disagree with but i won’t join the lantern and pitchfork crowd and go on a wenger witch hunt for all that’s currently wrong with the squad.

  85. carts

    Akpom to either would be a strong move. Although id rather Sanogo went instead of him. Do either play Europa League this season, RP?

  86. Cesc Appeal

    NYC

    Don’t think there’s a pitchfork brigade. Just think some Arsenal fans act instantly to protect Wenger from criticism even if totally reasonable.

  87. Keyser

    “Might’ve been a good idea to add that DM in the summer while we were faffing about with Sanogoals…”

    Lol eh ?

  88. Jeff

    No use blaming the ref. He could have sent off Welbeck and Koscielny but he didn’t. Equally we should have had a penalty but we didn’t. At the end of the day, the team with better overall quality and skill won.

    Did they win by a big margin? No, not this time but the sad record that Wenger can’t beat Mourinho or any of the big club managers continues to hang in the air like a bad smell that never quite dissipates.

    Other managers of “lesser” teams have beaten him in the past. It’s just Wenger’s complete and utter lack of bottle and tactical acumen that sickens those fans who are able to see it for what it really is.

    Southampton, Swansea, Liverpool and Tottenham all look capable of grabbing fourth this season – we don’t even look the part anymore and every year – no matter who is playing for us – our game seems to degenerate a tiny bit more.

  89. Thank you and goodnight

    This is what ibrahimovic said about Mourinho.

    Is Mourinho the most intelligent coach he has ever played for? “Yes. In the way he approaches players and – ‘manipulates’ is the wrong word – gets them very pumped up? No doubt.”

    Be honest, can anyone see Wenger getting players ‘pumped up’….

  90. alexanderhenry

    Leedsgunner, as far as the current side is concerned, I think we need to give it a little bit more time to gel. I’m as frustrated as you are, but I still think we will push on this season. Your other post about what the stadium was for, and the board needing an overhaul, i’m in total agreement with. The problem at arsenal goes way beyond wenger. It goes right to the top in the form of stanley kroenke. Many of you think that the problem is wenger and when he goes- he might go this season if we do badly enough, if not in two and a half years- kroenke will replace him with a top coach like klopp or simeone and give him access to all the club’s undisputed wealth. Well, I think you’re all going to be very disappointed. Have a look online and read up on how he runs his other ‘sports franchises’ and how successful they are. It makes for sobering reading. Kroenke is the real problem at arsenal and unless he sells up I fear that we’re doomed to mediocrity. He is the worst thing that ever happened to arsenal football club.

  91. NYCgooner

    Cesc

    Agreed. likewise the ones who somehow find a way to blame him for everything that goes wrong. Both groups on assholes tbh. Fair, reasoned, debate is what gets us to the ultimate truth of whats going on.

  92. Dissenter

    Lots of grandiose thinking on this blog this morning.
    Why in the world will Reus want to come to Arsenal when there are other suitors? Knowing Wenger, he’ll convert him to left FB.
    The talk is that he has a pre-contract with Real already, he’s the galactico signing for 2015.

  93. Cesc Appeal

    NYC

    Well I’ve always said there are two groups on either end, anti-Wenger and pro-Wenger.

    Then there’s massive group of fans who are sort of on a sliding scale toward either end.

  94. Thank you and goodnight

    @Alexander Henry

    Agree with you on kroenke 1 million %. But still think Arsène is an average manager at best, sorry. A lucky manager a la sven, now the lucks gone he is what he always was…..average manager.

  95. Dissenter

    I used to be a soft critic of Ozil but Ive become more understanding of his dilemma.
    He’s never been the physical player [should be doing more} but Wenger is hanging him up to dry by playing him away from his favored position.

    I wanted Cesc back and vehemently disagreed with everyone who said otherwise over the summer. At the time I thought Wenger didn’t want Cesc because he preferred to commit the fund to a DM.
    We’ve given Mourhino the platform to dominate this league for the next 1-5 years. They might even win one or two European cups in the process.

  96. Leedsgunner

    “Leedsgunner, as far as the current side is concerned, I think we need to give it a little bit more time to gel.”

    Alexanderhenry

    Many thanks for your careful reasoned response, much appreciated.

    I hope you are right but this is another reason for us to do our transfer business early so that all the gelling happens during preseason and during the tours. Wenger needs to have squad ready when the season opens not by Christmas…

    Plus, our German fellas were given extra time off after the WC cup but they look even more lethargic than usual (with the exception of Mertesacker) what’s the heck is that about? I’m an unashamed fan of Özil but honestly can someone tell him the season has started already? He looks half asleep!

  97. N'Gambo

    The Sven comparison is exactly right … a stupid fluke that managed to hang around for ages … way past any success.

    But it might have passed the notice of the gerontocracy on the board, but it definitely will NOT have passed the notice of the owners, how much REAL MONEY has had to be pumped into Manure to retrieve their status, income, and future profitability.

    4th this year? or not?

  98. Romford Pele

    Keane’s book…. Extract on Vieira and Arsenal tunnel row: “If it had come to a fight, Patrick could probably have killed me.”

    Vieira I miss you 🙁

  99. Thank you and goodnight

    @N’Gambo

    I for one hope we don’t come 4th. If we can’t win the league then 2nd,3rd or 4th is failure in my books. And if failing to come 4th is a kick up the backside that cunt of a yank and manager need then so be it.

    Apologies to many of our American fans on here, I love you all but loathe that yank wanker kroenke.

  100. Goongoonergone

    Wenger is like a flu that can’t be cured. He constantly gives most Gooners runny noses, reddened eyes, high fevers and headaches.

  101. Romford Pele

    “Arsenal fans setting off flares in the away bar … Wenger manhandling Mourinho – we’re the Stoke of Nth London.”

    Those pictures of flairs are from an away game at night ages ago. Stop trolling.

  102. Thank you and goodnight

    @Romford

    Viera, WHAT A PLAYER……

    My mates a fulham fan and watched fulham v Arsenal at craven cottage, forgot the year now, he came away saying Viera was the most complete midfielder he’d ever seen and that he would of beaten fulham by himself.

  103. andy1886

    ” as far as the current side is concerned, I think we need to give it a little bit more time to gel”

    Why do you think that? Why more time than any other side (inc. Chelsea)? For the record we bought fewer players than any other PL side this summer and none at all last January. So why do we need so much time to ‘gel’?

  104. Cesc Appeal

    No danger of us missing fourth. None at all.

    Liverpool don’t look great, Spurs are hit and miss and even when they hit it’s more a poke than a hit or a pathetic slap.

    Right now I think:

    Chelsea
    City
    United
    Arsenal

  105. Romford Pele

    TYAG – Vieira was literally a one-man wrecking ball. Think if you were in the tunnel seeing this f*** off 6″4 giant staring you down before the game, you’d be bricking it, instead of all these flower boys here right now. He needs to come back to AFC, light blue doesn’t suit him 🙁

  106. Romford Pele

    We’ll probably get going after the Interlull, easier fixtures, lighter workload, players returning etc.

  107. salparadisenyc

    Who is the best DM currently playing in world football?

    Matic, Busquets, Javi Martinez pre injury and i’ve always rated Schweinsteiger quite high.

  108. Dissenter

    salparadisenyc,
    “Who is the best DM currently playing in world football?”

    The utopian one in Wenger’s mind, That’s why he will never sign one.