Uberpositives vs Shalackings

by .

So after Pedro posted about his Dortmund exploits – including some pretty racey pictures of German sausage – I’m back to have another go after Wednesday’s post (meltdown).

Now that the pain of Tuesday night is a little less fresh in the memory and the wound that is Arsenal’s season has started to scab, I was going to try and offer some perspective.

At least that was the case until I read that we are in for Lassana Diarra. And here is exactly why being an Arsenal fan is such a headfuck:

1. I’d be delighted if we signed Diarra because we desperately need a player like him at DM;
2. I’d be furious with the manager because it’s something he could and should have sorted in the summer rather than waiting until it has cost us points in the league and CL;
3. I kind of hope this is just paper talk because if true it absolutely beggars belief.

So there you have it – delight and fury from the same piece of news, while simultaneously hoping that it is and isn’t true. It’s Kaiser Soze levels of banter from Arsenal there’s no other way of looking at it.

In other news the div brigade have been on at Pedro for exactly what I highlighted in my post on Wednesday:

‘U SAID WE SHOULD GET MOYES OR COYLE TO REPLACE VENGA. U NO NUFFINK’

Well yeah but he also said Klopp, LVG or Guardiola would do a better job and that Moyes and Coyle were ‘curve balls’ who at the time were pretty much universally regarded as promising young managers. And lest we forget it IS possible for people to make mistakes in football.

Arsene thought Almunia, Traore, Squillaci. Silvestre, Santos, Bischoff, Denilson, Diawara, Chamakh and Park were all good enough to play for Arsenal. That’s a whole team of wrong right there.

What’s so offensive about highlighting errors in exactly the way I have just done is it’s an argument against taking a risk, against the unknown. It’s saying don’t imagine that things could ever be better, just be happy with things as they are – and don’t EVER question it. It’s all a bit 1984 to be honest (not to massively overdramatise football or anything).

Certainly when you encounter some of the überpositives online (I’ve never met one in the stadium) they always seem one or two tweets away from drinking the kool-aid.

But slowly, as the piss-poor performances continue to rack up, their excuses are becoming more and more feeble.

First it was stadium debt, then it was competing with oil-rich clubs, then it was treacherous players who left us in the lurch, now it’s about showing respect to a man who has done so much for the club.

While there’s an element if truth in all these points, there’s always a reason not to criticise – and demanding someone be beyond criticism out of ‘respect’ is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I do respect Arsene Wenger but I don’t think he can cut it with the very best anymore which is what we should demand for a club of our stature.

Another fun thing I tried to do yesterday is recount all the maulings and ridiculous comebacks we’ve suffered as a club over the last few years (since 2008 when things really started to go wrong). Here’s my list, let me know if I’ve missed any:

Maulings:

Chelsea (prem) 6-0
Everton (prem) 3-0
City (prem) 6-3
Liverpool (prem) 5-1
United (prem) 8-2
Milan (CL) 4-0
Barcelona (CL) 4-1
United (CL) 3-1
Tottenham (CC) 5-1

Ridiculous comebacks:

West Brom (prem) 3-2
Tottenham (prem) 3-2
Newcastle (prem) 4-4
Tottenham (prem) 4-4
Birmingham (prem) 2-2

Now ask yourself which other top teams have racked up as many shalackings or hilarious collapses as Arsenal have in recent years? Every team will have one or two but none with a list as impressive as ours.

What’s the point I’m trying to make here? I don’t know really, probably that we are just not as good as we think we are. And out of all those results listed above, players have changed, formations have changed and backroom staff have changed. The one thing that has remained constant is the manager.

But you know that’s where we are at at the moment, it can’t be changed. Let’s look at what can be changed ahead of Villa on Saturday.

First and foremost the formation. I read a great article that said the reason we have moved to 4-1-4-1 is to accommodate Wilshere. Rather than a double pivot of Ramsey and Arteta with Özil at number 10, we now have a single pivot of Arteta (ie more ground for him to cover) with Ramsey and Wilshere both helping out in defence and attack (box to box), without either seeming to know who is the defendy one and who is the attacky one. Meanwhile our best no10, Özil, is shunted out wide.

So the problem with this formation is that it doesn’t suit Özil, Ramsey, Arteta or Wilshere himself. I’d advocate going back to the old formation but who knows, maybe it will click soon.

In terms of the opposition, Villa seem to be better this season but I don’t know or really care why. We just have to start winning games and quickly.

Before I go huge congratulations to Scotland for voting No last night. I had serious concerns about what it would mean for Scottish players like Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey and our imports of bagpipes and Iron Bru but I get the feeling everything is going to be alright.

I’ll be back tomorrow with a better preview of the Villa game. Let me know your thoughts in the comments – and also can someone explain who Oswald is?

Follow me on twitter @aldo_doel  xxx

573 Responses to “Uberpositives vs Shalackings”

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  1. N5

    Cesc, my very own salskinned coat, I love it. We’ll get you one too. Can I interest you in a nice hardly used TYAG coat, or maybe a Midwest mac? how about a Bamford bonnet or a Revvin wastecoat.

    Sal, I thought it was a male too. To be honest because they called me dear N5, I thought it might be Kevin with a new username.

  2. Cesc Appeal

    N5

    We could literally end up with an entire wardrobe and Pedro out of a job.

    Out of a job and turned into loafers 🙂

  3. N5

    Lol Revvin Sally, he’ll get called that now and he’ll ask where it came from and in my most lady like voice, I’ll act all coy and say “I’ll never tell”.

    Cesc, Pedro Penny loafers. Jesus at the rate we’ll be turning the regulars into clothes, it’ll be like positivelyarsenal here in under 2 weeks. Still….at least I’ll have some brand new Johnty Joggers to strut around the empty place in.

  4. Bamford13

    sal

    Please point out what was “bullshit” in what I said. I think everything I said was quite reasonable and factual.

    Do you mean my “Pope” comment? A little snarky, yes, but anyone who comes on here and gives us some pollyanna nonsense about how we have a “great” midfield — please just fuck off with that, really — and how we are going to have a “great” season does not deserve to be taken seriously. Sorry.

  5. salparadisenyc

    Bamford,

    Matie you run hotter and colder than my old ladies snatch, one day you’re done watching the matches, next you’re giving us hardened op eds from the bunker. All this having admittedly supported for 6 years, I say come one come all but have a bit of respect for those that have lived the ebb and flow, some for decades. So forgive me but I have a difficult time getting past go with what you’ve got to say, even if it somewhat informed on the current goings on at the Arsenal.

  6. Dissenter

    For all the flak that legrove gets, we sure get our fair share of loopies.

    There’s optimism and then there’s undue grandiosity.
    Sally falls in the latter.

    We have the best midfield in Europe except for Bayern?
    A midfield where the accomplished number 10 is shunted to the left and is lacking in a worthwhile defensive midfielder.

    Sally Pally must be the local chieftain of the flat earth society.
    No wonder Wenger has had a free reign.

  7. Bamford13

    sal

    Nice non-argument: if I said something that was “bullshit,” please point it out. Otherwise, admit that nothing I said was “bullshit” and you really just have an issue with how long I’ve been a supporter or how upset I am by Wenger’s failures.

    As for the fact that I get a bit worked up, yes, this is true — it’s just my disposition. But unlike people like this dipshit Sally, I actually know what I’m talking about — regardless of how long I’ve been a supporter.

    And it’s been eight years, by the way. Eight long years. I have watched basically every single game and have spent probably an hour a day reading articles. So you can kindly fuck off with this attitude that I’m somehow a newbie. Everyone must start somewhere. That there are people who have been supporting the club for thirty years and spout pollyanna bullshit like Sally is only evidence that they haven’t learned much in their thirty years of watching — not proof of some alleged superior disposition.

    You’re fucking annoying, mate.

  8. Dissenter

    It’s no wonder we have the third highest wage bill.
    Giroud is set to have his contract extended by two years and his weekly salary increase to 90k from 60k.

    Great for him but he’s really a 60k weekly striker, no more than that.

    We keep paying Jack, Miyachi and a lot of average players wages that should be reserved for players that are just below excellent/world class cadre.
    It’s no wonder we cannot pay a world class player 200k weekly.

  9. N5

    Bamford, that’s the issue. You’ve called them a dipshit, moronic and a religious nut for making two comments. It’s fair enough to disagree with them, but until they become insulting why did you feel like you had too?

  10. Dissenter

    Salparadisenyc,
    Sally Pally’s longevity as an Arsenal fan has no bearing here when he’s spouting lots of over-valued ideas that are just flat out wrong.

    We have the best midfield in Europe, except for Bayern?

  11. salparadisenyc

    Bamford

    I think you’ve missed the point, you’re an angry fella.
    If i’m annoying feel free to pass over my posts, i’m not bothered.

  12. Bamford13

    N5

    Well one, because saying we have one of the “best” 4-5 midfields in Europe and that he knows we’re going to have a “great” season IS moronic, idiotic, akin to religious faith. Why should I call it anything other than what it is?

    Yes, I realize I’m being a dick, but I just have no time for idiocy. It’s part of the problem — people have allowed idiocy to pass at the club for too long.

    You all can be nice to these clowns. Roll out the welcoming mat, so that we can listen to their idiotic drivel.

    I’ll go on treating their opinions with contempt — because that’s what they actually deserve.

  13. N5

    Bamford, fair enough but the Grove already has a name for being a miserable, abusive collection of Wenger out doomers and when someone is jumped on after just 2 comments you can see why.

    Yet, Ben, AA, Marble, Sc0tt and a million others are allowed to post their offensive shit day in a day out because they aren’t pro-Arsenal. Look at the abuse Revvin gets or KJ or now Sally because they have blind faith.

    I agree that Sally’s post is misguided, but i wouldn’t call it moronic. It’s no different to a person thinking they have the best looking child in the world. It’s not true, but they see it through rose tinted glasses.

  14. Bamford13

    sal

    I can’t very well ignore posts of yours that are addressed to me, can I? Although I do that with Keyser, so perhaps I COULD start with you.

    And I’m actually not an angry person, but idiocy does irritate me to no end.

    The smart letter posted/quoted here just the other day, however, from a very intelligent, insightful AKB did not irritate me in the slightest. Because it was at least intelligent, informed and reasonable. I think the guy has it wrong — and I explained why — but I issued only compliments and no insults. Why? Because it was an intelligent post.

    And by the way, what was the point of your mentioning how long I’ve supported the club if not for the reason I cited?

    And you still haven’t said what was “bullshit” in what I said, by the way.

  15. Bamford13

    N5

    Fair enough, but unlike some of you, I don’t think Le Grove needs to be “nice” to visiting AKBs. Who cares? These people are part of the problem and they clearly aren’t going to be changing their stripes.

    I like your parent-with-rose-tinted-glasses analogy, except that it’s misleading, I think. Oh shit! I have to go pick up my take-out Thai.

    Will continue later. 😉

  16. salparadisenyc

    Dissenter

    I think I said something along the lines of Sally’s post was well south of Uranus.
    After listing a few mid that may decimate ours prior.

    I have a soft spot for older Gooners having weathered many storms, my old man is one. We’ve had some epic debates but the dude loves the club in ways i’ve yet to learn.

  17. N5

    Bamford, I agree mate that it doesn’t have to be nice and you are free to conduct yourself in any manner you see fit, but it does weaken the argument when its littered with insults. But maybe that’s just me that see’s it like that.

    Enjoy your Thai, i’m hungry now you bugger!!

  18. Dissenter

    Sal and N5,
    Ingest what you’re saying though.

    Sally Pally is just like Revving.

    I love Revving though I disagree with him of of the time. He’s one guy I’ll like to really meet in person.
    Legrove is like your weather,; gray, boring and too familiar.
    Oftentimes we are just singing the same song.

    It’s good to have a different perspective even if overly optimistic.

  19. moray

    “Arsenal’s annual wage bill is understood to have moved ahead of Chelsea’s for the first time in more than a decade, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.”

    Who the fuck is doing our contract negotiations? That lunatic Wenger?

    The only one of our squad I would take over Chelski’s is Sanchez. And that’s a fine line if we put him up against Hazard.

    This idea of automatically upgrading contracts after a year is ridiculous. I mean, what has Giroud done to earn a 30k delta? If he was worth 60k last year, why now 90k? That’s a 50% pay rise just in his basic salary. It’s Wenger over-indulging his favourites again. I will never forget Djourou’s automatic pay rise just before he was shunted off on compensated loan.

  20. salparadisenyc

    Alex

    It had nothing to do with Sally’s comments, in fact Sally Pally or Revvin Sally took on an Oswald character there.

    N5
    He did not, think he’s said he’s near Archway on the tube.

  21. moray

    “Wenger also revealed he draws inspiration from the 1970 World Cup winning Brazil team, who accommodated five No10s, in how to get the best out of his misfiring German.”

    So Wenger is trying to recreate a team playing almost 50 years ago. A team populated by some of the most talented footballers ever. And he plans to do that by signing cheap and loan players cobbled together with minimal training and tactics. And he is trying to mimic an international team in the domestic league.

    Perhaps someone should tell him time has moved on?

  22. moray

    “Wages were up by $19.54 million to $271.03 million, taking 55.7 per cent of football revenue due to the re-signings of Theo Walcott, Jack Wilshere and Aaron Ramsey. Those numbers would change further if they took into account some of the acquisitions this summer, namely Alexis Sanchez coming from Barcelona.”

    Of course this wage increase doesn’t even account for the new signings. Did we increase Walcott’s salary last year? I thought that was 2 years ago when that debate came up? And what on earth has Jack done to earn a new contract? What’s he on now?

  23. salparadisenyc

    N5

    Indeed, that said I stay near westbourne park so its a bit of a hall.
    Much like match day, without the erm match.

  24. N5

    Oh shit is it that far. My old mans from that neck of the woods. He should have been QPR, but the pull from Arsenal was just too strong.

  25. Justice4 Sonogo

    Big game tomorrow, A Villa have a good team, Arsenal can’t afford to slip.
    Let hope Wenger make the right thing and play Ozil as No 10 & bench chez.
    Also it will be good to see Sonogo back if he is fit cuz I don’t believe the hype of Welbeck

  26. N5

    “Also it will be good to see Sonogo back if he is fit cuz I don’t believe the hype of Welbeck”

    Yet you believe it about Sanogo, even though he’s not scored once in 17 matches.

  27. Justice4 Sonogo

    N5
    ‘Yet you believe it about Sanogo, even though he’s not scored once in 17 matches.’
    How can he score if he wasn’t given the chance?
    He isn’t the Costa, Falcao or Suarez but nether is Welbeck .
    It will b interesting to know how many goal Welbeck scored in his first 17 game

  28. moray

    From untold…it seems Wenger wasn’t patient enough with Denilson! haha

    Abhishek Kumar
    September 18, 2014 at 9:56 am
    Hi Tony

    Great piece of writing..I just checked for Denilson today and he is doing wonderful in Brazil.. Now only if some people had patience who knows we might not have lost him..

  29. Justice4 Sonogo

    Dany Welbeck scored 1 premier league goal in his first 18 app & 2 FA cup goals, I don’t think this is brilliant by any mean.
    Since there is no difference between them I would rather giving the young lad the chance to devolp until we sign a proper striker

  30. Bamford13

    Today we should go with—

    ______________Shez
    Bell_____Cham____Kosc_____Gibb
    ______Wislhere____Arteta
    Sanchez_____Cazorla_______Oxlade
    _____________Welbeck

    Then Ramsey for Jack and Ozil for Cazorla in the 70th. Podolski for Welbeck as well.

  31. Bamford13

    Justice

    Sanogo is garbage. While Welbeck is not a clinical finisher, he has a sound first touch, can dribble and is good in combination play. Sanogo has none of this. Welbeck has scored great goals at the international level; Sanogo will never even play at the full int’l level. Welbeck was signed for 16m; Sanogo for free.

    Aside from resting Welbeck, Sanogo should play for no reason.

  32. qna

    Bamford, I would like to see Rosicky play. He is still my favorite Arsenal player, although I am also thinking of a time when I actually enjoyed watching the Arsenal style of play. Welbeck and Sonogo are both substandard forwards. However, Welbeck must be given his chance to prove he is ordinary, so there is no time to waste. I would like to see Campbell come on with 30 minutes to play, although the way Arsenal are playing I dont expect him to be banging in too many goals either. My expectation is different for both Sonogo and Campbell – who are developing players vs Campbell, who has already had his opportunity with a top club and missed it. Note, that I am as frustrated as anybody that we signed Sonogo in the first place, but nevertheless, he is here, so he deserves his chance to Chamakh it up.

  33. qna

    Cant believe that Chelsea has a lower wage bill than Arsenal now.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11110007/Arsenals-annual-wage-bill-moves-ahead-of-Chelseas-for-first-time-in-more-than-a-decade.html

    Look at the players at Chelsea compared to our donkeys and we pay ours more? We need to put a giant broom through the whole Arsenal management from Ivan through to Wenger and Bould. Could there be a more mismanaged club in world football than Arsenal?

  34. Emiratesstroller

    Arsenal’s bank balance has risen once again and the debate will be that the money should be invested in team rather than sitting dormant in a bank account.

    However, this story is not quite correct, because Arsenal’s financial year ends
    at the point when money is being collected from season ticket sales and BEFORE this Summer’s expenditure on transfers.

    The transfers IN exceeded the transfers OUT by in the region of £60 million if
    you factor in the offloads of Vermaelen,Djourou etc plus additional revenues
    from Vela and Fabregas.

    Nevertheless Arsenal’s bank balances continue to exceed as I raised some months ago £100 million, which is significantly higher than any other club in
    EPL or for that matter clubs like,Real Madrid,Barcelona,Bayern Munich and
    Manchester United.

    As Swiss Ramble raised last year there are commitments and provisions, which need to be factored in, but even so there are absolutely no reasons why
    more money cannot be invested in the team.

    Arsenal will no doubt argue that its profits shrunk last year and are likely to do so again this year not only because of transfers but increase in wage bills.
    They could even make a loss this year.

    Moreover we might lose revenue if we fail to qualify for Europe. This is always
    the argument almost every year.

    If we fail to qualify for Europe this year it will be because the club UNDERINVESTED in critical areas of the team specifically in Defense.

    Going into a new season with just 6 Defenders + 2 DMF who are not fit for purpose was poor Judgment particularly when you see how we have played sofar
    since the season opened.

    The hard facts are that the team at moment is not fit for purpose. Leaving aside the bad luck that both Debuchy and Chambers were unfit on Tuesday
    the fact is that we are short of cover in Centre Back positions and our left
    backs are frankly not good enough. Gibbs is injury prone and Monreal leaves
    team too often defensively exposed on left flank.

    Our fragility in Midfield is also of serious concern. Messrs Ramsey,Wilshire,
    Cazorla and Ozil are all good players creatively, but none are what you might
    call ‘hard workers’ or ‘physically strong’ players.

    The team needs more pace and defensive stability in midfield and that is not
    being offered at moment by either Arteta or Flamini.

    My overall concern continues to be the Manager. You can defend Wenger until the cows come home, but the reality is that his decision making and tactical naus is poor and has been in my assessment for a very long time.

    You can argue that the club does not have the spending power of the two Manchester Clubs plus Chelsea, but that is not an argument as to how the team
    lost against them last season or for that matter the abject performance against
    Borussia Dortmund.

    Clubs with a fraction of our transfer budget and wage bill perform better than
    we do.

    That is because their managers build balanced teams and employ tactics which meet requirements when facing a particular opposition teams.

    Wenger sadly is no longer capable of achieving this.

  35. Rosicky@Arsenal

    Alex & The Anti Wenger Club

    Re maulings & Ridiculous comebacks.

    I think we are very much harsh on Wenger. I will not defend the 8-2 or 6-0 results but we must realize that you cant win or even play well every day, On a day u are very poor and the opponents play well it can happen, Even the worlds most successful club under the most successfull manager so called Fergie had to face the maullings even on there own backyard. While v faced these two poor results away from home and with 10 men at the brgde pls hav a look at Uniteds maulings under Ferguson.

    United 1-6 City Oct 2012
    United 1-4 Liverpool March 2009
    Barcelona 3 -1 United Wembley 2009
    City 4-1 United March 2004 Etihad
    Chelsea 5-0 United Oct 1999 Bridge

    You may argue about the 1999 result that it was a long time back in 1999 but anyway it has been a mauling under Ferguson.I have not mentioned the maulings by Newcastle & Southamton in 96 when United lost by tennis scores.

    United current results & performance under Moyes & LVG are not mentioned.
    Even when v lost 8-2 and 6-0 we still remained in top4 and qualified for the CL & won the FA cup too.

    Rather blaming Wenger we should support him for keeping us in the top club for all those years whilts our competitors United Spurs Liverpool have fallen apart.
    Atleast we should admit that we are a more stable club than spurs & Liverpool barring United Chelsea & City who have far more better resources & oil money.

  36. Emiratesstroller

    Wenger reminds me of the obsessive stamp or art collector. He is good at recruiting technically gifted and creative players, but is abjectly poor in acquiring
    players who are solid defensively or excellent goalscorers.

  37. Jeff

    Rosicky,

    You could have condensed all that and just said what you really want to say which is that you don’t believe we could have done any better under a different manager in the last decade. That’s your opinion and I happen to disagree with every word of it.

  38. the Hothead

    Bacaryisgone and every other person who talks about “financial shackles are now gone”

    WHAT FINANCIAL SHACKLES????

    We NEVER had any, you sheep believe any old bollox with your Wenger love-in

    Our wages have always been high, up until recently we were £20m or so per season behind Man U, thats the equivalent of 4 players on £100k per week – which the likes of RVP should have been on anyway. Our wage bill is as high as it is because Wenger is a bloody idiot !!

    But its not all doom and gloom, I actually believe we are 2 or 3 players and a new manager away from being competitive on all fronts, but we can buy all the best players in the world but Wenger would fuck it all up with nonsensical tactics and formation!!!

  39. the Hothead

    Forgot to say, if we had financial shackles how have we amassed £170m+ in cash reserves? !!!! Thats close to £20m per season om players since the Emirates move we could’ve spent!!! Liverpool bought Suarez for around £25m!!

  40. Jeff

    All those who support Wenger labour under the misapprehension that we became handicapped by the appearance of the free spending billionaires. Little do they realise that the biggest handicap was and is in fact much closer to home.

  41. Emiratesstroller

    You don’t need to spend the earth on good or solid defenders.

    Top Defenders or Defensive Midfielders cost probably between £25-35 million
    at most and good squad players between £10 and 15 million.

  42. Jeff

    Jamie Carragher:

    “For a decade now, Arsenal have been unable to contain opponents who go with a fast, physical gameplan. Everyone knows how to play against them. Dortmund could have comfortably run up a score similar to the ones posted by Liverpool (5-1 in February) and Chelsea (6-0 in March), but the aspect I found most alarming was the fact they have only kept three clean sheets in their past 29 Champions League away games. That, frankly, is an awful record”

    http://tinyurl.com/mauvh84

  43. Emiratesstroller

    Jeff

    You are 100% correct.

    Borussia Dortmund don’t have our budget and even in absence of their two best players Reus and Hummels completely outplayed us.

    However, I do accept that at the moment we don’t have the defensive players
    on our books to produce a competitive team.

    Apart from tactics and balance that is a problem and will require investment.

  44. Shaun Wilson

    If we lose unconvincingly poorly this weekend- as I believe we could do – I think it’s possible we could go into a free fall spiral of heavy defeats that will result in the sacking of Wenger before Christmas. A foolish prognostication? Let us see…

  45. Emiratesstroller

    Shaun Wilson

    There is every chance that we could lose next 3 games in EPL to AV,Chelsea and Spurs. They all played pressing and counter attack games against us last season.

    As to Wenger being sacked that is not going to happen. It is not in the club’s
    psyche to sack managers or staff even if they are past their sell by date.

    That is as Jeff and and many others have alluded to the major problem at club
    at moment.

  46. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @Jeff

    You may disagree its your right,Everone has his/her opinion.

    I was simply stating the facts in reply to Alex post whch gives an impression that Arsenal is the only club which has been mauled in the last decade.
    Uniteds results are mentioned above and is a proof that people on Le Grove are mostly biased and have a one point agenda of criticsim of Wenger and thats all.

  47. Jeff

    Emirates,

    I think the only person on the planet who doesn’t think we have a defensive lacking is Wenger himself. What people simply don’t seem to realise or forget is that whatever acquisitions we made in a defensive capacity are all “replacements”. In fact I’m not sure we actually did replace Vermaelen. We replaced Sagna and his backup Jenkinson with Debuchy and Chambers but whatever we thought of Vermaelen, he was still another “body” that left and nobody came to replace him.

    On top of that, we have an ageing tortoise called Arteta who can’t (not that he ever could) do the defensive midfielder job to save his life so we needed one of those as well. That’s why the back four get clobbered because we simply have no protection. But I tire of saying and hearing these things over and over again because it’s like stating the obvious to a child.

    Then we come to the players on the other side such as Gibbs and Monreal. The first is injury prone and the second is average at best. So we offer nothing special on the left either. Debucy (while he lasted) acquitted himself quite well in the few games that he played and so did Chambers but unfortunately as a team we are still short of talent and physicality (especially in the middle) to deal with counter-attacking sides. It is so bad that we simply can’t afford to lose the ball in the last third which as it happens is what we do all too often these days.

    As if all that wasn’t enough, we’ve now opted to play the worst possible formation (4- 1-4-1) given the men we have. It leaves us even more vulnerable than we are already. It’s the old albatross around Wenger’s neck that he’s much more interested in attack than he is in defence and he will play any scheme just to accommodate the midfield and front four and completely disregard what’s likely to happen at the back. As for our set piece defending – well the less said the better on that one.

    In short, absolutely any team with any kind of attacking prowess will give us a hard time. So all those people who support Wenger will say “why don’t you try managing” and pass smugly by believing that he knows best as if it’s just one person saying it.

    I cannot and will not ever understand the insatiable adoration this man commands.

  48. Jeff

    Rosicky,

    I hope the gist of Alex’s post wasn’t lost on you. There is a mountain of difference in success between us and Man U so to compare our drubbings with theirs is to completely miss the point.

    I would happily accept the big losses Man U suffered and have the success they had in the last 10 years. Wouldn’t you?

  49. the Hothead

    Rosicky@Arsenal – even if your argument was valid (which it is not), just because other teams may habe been mauled that is no reason for us to accept our own maulings as being acceptable !

    But you are wrong because of the level of our maulings. No other so-called top club has been beaten 8-2 or close to it that I can remember in the modern era, across the top leagues in Europe !! We regularly get trounced, Man U do not ! Last season showed Wenger up as a tactically pathetically DUMB manager, the Coco the Clown of football. Utterly inept and utterly clueless. We were handed the FA Cup on a plate thanks to the most favourable cup run in recent history and his stupid tactics did everything they could to try to lose us that game.

    Wenger is a clown, a laughing stock, nobody fears us, they look forward to playing us.

  50. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ The Hot head

    1-6 by City at Old Trafford 2 years ago under Fergie

    is not a mauling

    what a joke man.

    Think with a cool head man.

  51. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ The hot head

    United 1 -6 City at the theatre of dreams.

    is not a mauling !!!!!!

    HAhahahah

    Think with a cool head man.

  52. El Tel 1

    Hothead

    You was going well u til you got to thr bit about the FA cup.

    We drew Tottenham and Liverfool on that ride.

    How come every time we win a trophy people say it was because we were lucky.

    The Invincibles still today dont get the true recognition they deserve.

    That is the reason we are so hated in. Recent times.

    A Dopey Frenchmen went an whole season and 49 games a domestic record unbeaten.

    Everyone else that season must have had an off day or were all shite.

    Ha Ha Ha

  53. andy1886

    Yeah Rosicky, and Fergie went on to win the title back the next season with a team containing the likes of Fletcher, Cleverly, Rafael, Carrick, Young and Evans (all of whom played against us when we lost 2-1 at OT that season).

    In comparison what did AW do with a far better set of players? The usual, sweet FA.

    And oil money – lol. When we have a larger wage bill and have spent net more on players than Chelsea in the last three transfer windows since Jose returned in June 2013.

  54. peanuts&monkeys

    A cursory glance thru the pages gives me an impression that the AKBs are out of their hidings again. And, are trying to justify the abject miseries Wenger is thrusting on the players and fans. Aren’t they.

  55. Ben

    Clowns like Welbeck, Szczesny, Podolski, Wilshere, Mertesacker on 100k/w all of them are shit.. They wouldn’t even get 20k at any other club. Wenger has truly mis managed the club. Wenger spends more on wages than Chelsea yet we are nowhere near their level. What a conman this cunt is. Wenger is a myth. A fraud who got lucky and has destroyed the club. Midtable mediocrity like liverpool will come to us thanks this cunt. Any one who still supports him are Anti Arsenal. Because no fan who had the best interests of the club would support this utter scum.

  56. Thank you and goodnight

    @Peanuts

    Sad really isn’t it. These are the people who’d go home to find their wives sucking off the next door neighbour, only to be told by their wife’s the reason for this is because they’ve lost their toothbrush and he kindly offered to brush her teeth for her…..and the idiots would believe them.

  57. peanuts&monkeys

    Pedro,

    The ramblings here on LF have actually become extremely stale – same old bashing of the club management, few players. Same old weak and impotent defenses of the AKBs. If you look back the average content of last 3 to 4 years its all same. Its just that the names of people who post keep changing. I am quite sure even the people are same.
    For an Arsenal fans who is not so deeply passionate about Arsenal and guys who do not have so much time to spend thoughts for Arsenal, really dont care much. they must be leaving LG as soon as they come taking back an impression this is a page of a set of some 100-odd losers.

    If i were you, i would be losing sleep about how to keep LG relevant going ahead.

  58. SpanishDave

    Wenger is a poor manager, just think if he came to us 10 years ago and won a single fa cup how many akbs would there be?.
    W e are a nation that dwells in past glories, but Wenger has to go hes got nothing more to offer the club, he needs to get away as much as we need to see the back of him.
    But hes to arrogant and the owner knows nothing about football so status quo is the easy answer. So we go round in circles which is frustrating, expensive and fruitless. We are the British Leyland of football, stale and going nowhere.

  59. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ Andy 1886

    Mate you should stick to the point.
    The topic of discussion from Alex post is that Arsenal is the only Elite club who got trashed. To which i replied that Alex is wrong in his view point. Other Elite clubs like United got trashed also even at there home. (BTW v got trashed on away matches FACT)

    If you talk of the whole season United did won the league next year but what happened after that. They finished 7th last season below us. We won the FA cup and are in The CL. United didnt won anything last year. So who has progressed????

  60. Sally Pally

    I have enjoyed this set of posts over the last couple of days. Seeing as a couple of you asked, to sate your curiosity, I last came here several years ago and gave up due to the seeming lack of any positivity but this time things are different and the comments seem more balanced with far less cheap shots that maybe used to put some genuine fans off. I loved the flaming ‘Jeepers Creepers’ welcomes. I am primarily a psychologist and we all know that Wenger provides a rich source for both those who want rid of him and those that don’t. Is it fair to say that no one can fathom him – it seems so to me. Just when everyone gives up on him, he pulls out a rabbit and we go unbeaten for 20 games. The regularity of total maulings this last year has been worrying, despite the brilliance in 90% of games. The defence is worrying. A few things in the team are worrying just now, I agree.
    Last year, it appeared that Wenger was maybe creating another Counter-attacking team again and it started to pay off, finally realising that maybe we couldn’t become Barcelona and that no one could in this rough league. This year, it seems he has strengthened massively in terms of pace, especially on the wings but I get the feeling he is in two minds about maybe sticking with the tippy-tappy football that got us nowhere special for 7 years after all. I hope he does go for counter-attack. Maybe we can do it in the big away games and mix it up when we are on top. This team is certainly capable of a lot of variation – IF Wenger decides to use it. If we can then we can do what was done to us those few times last year. I think that we got so mesmerised by possession football that we forgot what a thrill counter-attacking is for fans. With great counter-attack, amazing things happen very quickly whereas with tikka takka, loads of potential good situations usually disintegrate around the opposition box and I ended up getting bored with it, like most of you maybe.
    It is excruciating being an Arsenal supporter at the moment and I totally agree that Wenger should have got us closer to where we clearly should be with all the money lying around. I also agree that he appears to waste too much time on players that aren’t world-class. I don’t think that he always knows best and he definitely seems too stubborn quite often. My biggest disagreement with his approach was that I think that all the best teams are based on the best defences and for 7 years, post the Sol Campbell era, we just didn’t cut the mustard there. Last year we very nearly did, having a decent defence. This year, I think we need some kind of genius move to make our defence even as good, let alone better. But thinking about it, that is not beyond this team with a couple of small tweaks, one addition and a bit of our famous luck, that deserted us for so long (with Debuchy’s nightmare – that seems not to have materialised just yet). Most of all, I share the disillusionment that stems from being so, so close but never quite doing enough. United often used to be average for months and then just became the perfectly tuned engine for the latter part of the season. An explosive start by any team is often a false dawn. This year, if we are in the vicinity come January, then we just might get the Wenger of old back. He is playing the long game and who is to say that it won’t work again? Like you, I will believe it when I see it. But this team certainly is brimming with speed, guile and ability all over the park. I think that Debuchy is much better than Sagna because he can cross. Sagna never seemed to be able to create chances even though he was decent enough at the back. But what was the point of having a player who raced forward all the time with no end product hardly ever? So I hope Debuchy is back soon! Gibbs is ok and makes things happen. Bellerin looks like he’ll be good and time will tell. He is very fast and can cross. Chambers was a stroke of genius even at £16M. Maybe this is a big upgrade that just hasn’t quite got there yet. Anyway, I have gone on and thanks for putting up with me or not and forgive my self-indulgence and long post. Spare a thought for the Super Eagles.
    Take care on the roads, people. Bamford, ‘where d’ya get those eyes?’. One love to all of you long suffering gunners!

  61. N5

    Rosicky@Arsenal, that has got to be the most desperate attempt I have ever seen to justify Wenger.

    You picked Manure loses from over the last 15 years, seemingly forgetting we’ve had almost as many in the last 2. We lost 8-2 at Old Trafford, which (without looking) I’m almost certain is a premiership record against a premiership club.

    I’m proud of what Arsenal have done, but post 2005 we haven’t had a huge deal to cheer about and most accept that and either agree or disagree that Wenger is the man to take us forward. However most do not try to discredit Manure, one of the leagues most successful clubs, with one of history’s greatest managers in an attempt to make Wenger look better.

    Simple questions, who’s won the most in the last 15 years? who is the better manager out of Fergie and Wenger? and why on Earth are you so desperate to make Wenger look better?

    Surely his record should talk for itself, and as it doesn’t then this whole thing was pointless.

  62. Bamford13

    Sally

    You might try paragraph breaks next time. Makes for better reading and a more effective post. A few things:

    “no one can fathom him”

    I told you your approach was fundamentally religious.

    “brilliance in 90% of games”

    Brilliant? Arsenal weren’t even GOOD in 90% of the games last season much less “brilliant”. In point of fact, Arsenal were not “brilliant” in even ONE game last season. If we were, please remind us of that match.

    “think we need some kind of genius move to make our defence even as good”

    Does it really require “genius” to sign a quality CDM and CB? No, it doesn’t. And we’ve needed both — along with a quality CF — for two years now.

    What we need now is not genius — though I’d love Klopp or Simeone — but someone other than our senile Don Quixote of football, a man sitting on a pile of cash who imagines he’s defending football’s honor by spending little of it and showing he can compete with substandard players.

    As or your eyes quote, someone explain. Must be a British thing.

    Wenger out.

  63. Bamford13

    Rosicky

    Nice try. United were trounced ONCE in 10+ years. They then corrected and won the league. We were trounced THREE times just last season alone and the manager still hasn’t made the necessary corrections — namely a mobile, athletic CDM and CB, along with a quality CF.

    And this doesn’t even account for the multitude of other games where we have been woefully inadequate or played off the park but managed respectable scorelines.

    Wenger is hopeless, mate, as is anyone who defends him.

  64. Dusty Kart

    Can see us getting beat today with Wenger blaming the fans negativity towards Ozil being the cause, nothing to do with the alchemist playing him out wide.

  65. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ N5

    With due respect

    Manu lost 6-1 at home and we lost 8-2 away .
    In my humble opinion losing 6-1 at home is far more poor result than losing 8-2 away.I am sure everyone will agree.Wenger never lost at home so badly.

    I never said Wenger is a better manager than Fergie but still will support him because of his consistent record over the last 15 years.Ask spuds fans or Everton fans how much they wud relish coming in top4 and playing CLs every year.

    Also talking off track fergies benefitted from biased refrees decisions thru out his tenure. Whenever he needed decisions in his favour refrees came to his rescue and gave him the spot kick which made his task easier to win titles.

  66. N5

    WPB, I got confused. I thought Westbourne was up by Fulham, I’m not sure where I was thinking of.

    There again, I’m from Walworth, so pretty much everything is a step up.

  67. Wallace

    today’s probably not a day for the kids but i wouldn’t mind seeing Bellerin continue at RB allowing Chambers to move into the DM role. think tuesday might have been the last of Arteta in the big games.

  68. Norfolk

    Personally speaking I’m never going to slate Arteta or Flamini in a personal way.
    I think when they are on the pitch they do their best to perform as best they are able. They “put a shift in for the team” in the modern parlance.

    I think that both Ray P & Nigel W sometimes failed to excite but there was never a minute that I thought they were slacking or lacking commitment. Both were superstars in my opinion.

    If it is considered that they are lacking in ability/skill etc then the fault falls directly at AW’s feet for selecting them.

  69. Bamford13

    One, did anyone see the Wenger quote about offering 4m for Ronaldo years ago, but his Portuguese club wanting 4.5m? Classic fucking Wenger. Penny-wise, pound foolish. I’ll track it down if others haven’t seen it.

    Two, is Benteke back from injury?

  70. Norfolk

    Rosicky

    With respect

    Exactly what consistent record are you referring to ?
    Seems to me his main problem is lacking in consistency.
    Unless not winning anything over 9 years should be considered consistent. 🙂

  71. Rhys Jaggar

    Arsene Wenger is building Brazil 1970 in 2014/15, apparently.

    His football brain can’t be questioned, but one thing most fans have done rather more than Wenger is PAY FOR THEIR TICKETS TO WATCH GAMES. They know far more than Wenger about that. He’s not bought a ticket, I bet, in 25 years.

    If you can’t criticise the manager’s tactics, you have few options left.

    1. You simply give up your tickets and give up watching Arsenal.
    2. You keep buying the tickets but don’t go to the games, which is an heroic sacrifice given current prices, unless you manage to sell the tickets at face price throughout the season or get someone else to rent your season ticket for a season.
    3. You tell the CEO that you may not know as much as Wenger about football BUT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP PAYING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY TO WATCH THIRD RATE RUBBISH LIKE IN DORTMUND THIS WEEK.
    4. More to the point, you tell the CEO to set Wenger targets akin to Brazil 1970 i.e. you expect him to win the EPL title and the Champions league in 2015. He might not quite do that, but you make it equally clear that it is 100% guaranteed that he will be sacked with a statement that ‘it has been made clear to me by too many fans that their love of the club is almost broken and that the only way to restore it is to sack the manager’. That would be very undignified, wouldn’t it?

    Arsene Wenger is an EMPLOYEE. He is not the owner. He is not the owner’s playboy son, playing at football. If he won’t take any criticism then what he is saying is that he wants a new set of fans every 3 years who are happy to shell out £1500 to finish 4th, get to the last 16 of the Champions League if they are lucky and maybe, if they are lucky, fluke a domestic cup.

    Mr Wenger has said that Arsenal are Brazil 1970, good enough to accommodate 6 Number 10s and no defensive midfielders, no specialist wingers, no traditional Number Nines.

    Well, he must be held to that.

    I don’t think he will be up to the task, myself……..

  72. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ Bamford 13

    Sorry to say United had a dozen thrashing in the last decade. if you need i will send u a list.
    Remember Rafa Banitez & Torres destroyed United in 2009 1-4 at old trafford.
    If you study the PLs records Rafa Banitez Liverpool had a better record aginst Ferguson .Even Roy Hodgson Fulham beat Fergie 3-1 in 2010 season.
    People forget too easily.

  73. N5

    So Rosicky, is your point that we are as good as United as they’ve suffered big losses too? or is it irrelevant as they’ve won so much?

  74. Bamford13

    Rosicky

    Sure, send the list, as I’m not buying your argument. Even if they as taken a few mailings, though, there’s no fucking chance they took three in a season and then didn’t make huge and appropriate corrections.

    Not to mention they won the league or finished two how many times in that ten year span? Your argument is nonsense.

  75. Bamford13

    Wenger on C.Ronaldo: ” I negotiated with his agent in Paris. We had agreed a deal. But Sporting Lisbon wanted £4.5m for him, we offered £4m.”

    Courtesy Highbury Ghost, on Twitter

  76. theHotHead

    Rosicky@Arsenal – 5 maulings for Man U since 1999. We had t least 4 last season alone !!! Your argument is dead. Use my brain, I ALWAYS do. I can’t be bothered to list all of the Arsenal maulings since 1999, I would give myself nightmares if I looked back that far !!!

    El Tel – Liverpool and Spurs, Liverpool I will give you but not bloody Spurs who were terrible last season with their 10 new signings. We played 1 good team and got to the final, wow.

  77. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ Bamford 13

    If my Argument is nonsense .You can stick to yours i have no objection.

    I enjoyed

    United 1-6 City
    United 1-4 liverpool
    Fulham 3-1 United

    i wonder if u enjoed those results or you seem to be happy with Arsenal maulings.
    I am happy that Arsenal have performed consitenly over the years and finished among top 4. These ocassional maulings happen with every club in the world. wether it is Real barca chelsea or United.
    Since we are Arsenal supportes v take the pain too much which is the truth and what hurts you.But we shud always see the broader picture IMO.

    in the end i have no objection what do you think about your club.
    i have my opinion you may have yours.

    sorry if my opinion hurt you.In the end v are Arsenal fans.

  78. theHotHead

    Sally – I have absolutely no idea what Arsenal games you have been watching, but “brilliant 90%” is something I am bemused with. Are you referring to the Arsenal ladies team ? It cannot possibly be the men’s first team you are talking about !

  79. N5

    Lol, totally missing the point. No one enjoys the maulings, but 3 in a year is hard to take. And you miss the point so hard it’s unreal. Also when was 3-1 a mauling. If so were we mauled by Newcastle, because they are shit and we were 4-0 up, only to draw 4-4.

    I love Arsenal, but there is no way in the world we are a better team than United and the proof of that is, that in order to “accept” that recent kickings we’ve had, you had to go through 15 years of United matches. And even then, didn’t manage to find many credible.

  80. Justice4 Sonogo

    Bamford13
    ‘Sanogo will never even play at the full int’l level. Welbeck was signed for 16m; Sanogo for free.’
    Don’t know how u come to this conclusion HE IS 21 so he has all the time.
    As for Welbeck being signed for 16m, so what ? Andy Carroll was signed for 35m.

  81. Jeff

    Justice,

    Do you not see that it doesn’t matter even if Sanogo does come good at some point in the future? The formula is very simple and history has repeated itself so often that what will happen is almost a certainty. If Sanogo comes good, other clubs will come knocking, if not, he will remain with us. Wenger isn’t building for the future; he is papering over the cracks in the present – that’s all he’s been doing for the last decade. How else shall we appraise the repetitive mistake of letting our best players go and replacing with mediocrity?

  82. Wengers Plastic Bottle

    Arsenal maulings have been worst.

    6-1 and 8-2 to united absolutely tops it off.

    And we still can’t beat those cunts.

  83. Wengers Plastic Bottle

    Justice4 Sonogo

    There’s little evidence at the moment to say Sanogo is going to become good under Wenger.

    Without a decent touch and pass he will struggle to play for Arsenal

    I don’t rate him whatsoever

    Joel Campbell is far better player.

    Rooney hit the ground running from 16.

  84. Justice4 Sonogo

    Jeff
    I am with u on Wenger not the man to take us forward, I respect him for what he’s done & I think he was a fantastic manger but he’s passed it or the game has passed him, which evere argument he isn’t the man forward.

  85. Sally Pally

    My dear Norfolk

    There is a saying, ‘a hunter does not cover himself in oil then lie by the fire to sleep’. I may be a little too big and a little too hot for you to handle. You have great things to do with your energy and therein is a mystery. If you hunt inside until you discover everything and nothing, then even hot people will not burn you at all, or so it is said. One day we may meet just around the corner but I am far away and taken. I hope that you and I can live life to our full potential depending on no one and nothing.
    Bless you for heading inwards and upwards from now on.

    There is another saying, ‘a frog does not jump in the daytime without reason’. Maybe the success of our season depends on how many times the manager jumps. Did he not jump after the FA cup win with that joyful Empty Cloud feeling? Three lucky jumps for the treble?

  86. Justice4 Sonogo

    Wengers Plastic BottleSeptember 20, 2014 11:48:37
    ‘Justice4 SonogoThere’s little evidence at the moment to say Sanogo is going to become good under Wenger.’
    There’s little evidence to suggest otherwise I think.