Dortmund 2-0 Arsenal. Shit Sandwich

by .

'This grass is a little bit short'

‘This grass is a little bit short’

In Pedro’s absence, I thought I’d struggle for content this week but that absolute shit show of a performance has provided me with plenty. So let’s get started…

Maybe it’s the fact we’re 7 games in and yet to produce a half decent performance, maybe it’s the fact our club captain is our worst player, or maybe it’s the fact I’ve drunk 1/2 bottle of wine and am penning this post on the train ride home but this season is already turning out to be a rum prospect.

We can say goodbye to the league and champions league now. No way, not a chance. We might put together some sort of a run in either of the domestic cups and hell we might even win one of them. But then what are we left with? Not much progress that’s what.

The most difficult thing about being an Arsenal fan – and there are many difficult things – is that gnawing, pervading sense of ‘what if’.  Always 2 or 3 signings away from a title challenge, always a poor refereeing performance away from the result we deserve, always an injury away from glory.

At least when you support a team like Crystal Palace you can manage your expectations; you know your place in the football hierarchy and you learn to accept the highs and lows. But when you know your club has the resources and ability to compete with Bayern Munich, and yet can’t build a squad to sustain any type of domestic or European challenge what hope is there?

The performance last night was embarrassing. There is no shame in losing away at Dortmund. But to play so abysmally, to have a team so demotivated, to have a captain and midfield anchor who fails to provide cover and to see the same mistakes repeated again and again and again, should not be tolerated from a man who earns £8 million a year.

I’m failing to find a positive from that performance other than the fact that Hector Bellerin didn’t get mauled. The fact he was one of our better players is testament to how woeful we were.

Jack Wilshere, who has played well recently, resurrected his World Cup form. Ramsey resurrected his form from 3 years ago when he was nearly sold to Fulham. Alexis was shocking, Podolski pointless, SZCZ put in epic levels of Almunia and I’m struggling to think of things to say about Mesut Özil. This guy is a World Cup superstar playing like a Sunday league player. Would any other manager have tolerated his woeful performances and tried to play him into form when you have Cazorla, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Rosicky more than capable of filling in?

The fact is all these players are fabulous players. I wouldn’t sell any one of them. There is one man who motivates them, who gives them tactical instruction and who changes things when plan A isn’t working.

That man is the manager.

Everyone knows Le Grove is not pro Arsene Wenger. But anyone who can, in all earnestness, continue to look on at these performances, these farcical transfer windows and injury crises and still not find fault with the guy who yields all the power at the club is not being ignorant, they’re being disingenuous.

Sure we don’t know everything that goes on behind the scenes. You can try and blame the fans for creating a negative atmosphere (anyone who says that has clearly never watched live football). You can produce statistics to show that Danny Welbeck has fewer ‘turnovers’ than Radmael Falcao. And you can continue to say that ‘you said we should’ve signed Ashley Young therefore you can’t criticise the manager’ but the fact is, the ONLY way this is going to get better is when Arsene leaves.

He’s been a great servant of the club, the best, but he is not the guy to lead it to future glory.

We may recover. We will put together a good run in the league and we will qualify from our group in the champions league, there will be better days ahead this season. But I do not hold out hope of reaching the promised land again until something significant changes at the top.

@aldo_doel over and out.

p.s. As this was ostensibly a match report, I better do some kind of player ratings…

Szcz – Almunia

Bellerin – Still alive

Kos – Dental Floss

Mertesacker – Training Cone

Arteta – Every Michael Bay film ever made condensed int0 70 minutes

Wilshere – Get up

Ramsey – As bad as Richard Dawkins on twitter

Ozil – Who is this and what have you done with the real Mesut?

Alexis – John Bishop

Welbeck – A touch of the Chamakhs

728 Responses to “Dortmund 2-0 Arsenal. Shit Sandwich”

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  1. kwik fit

    So Debuchy has a broken ligament and is out longer than first thought.
    Woh don’t you just love being and Arsenal supporter.

  2. Cesc Appeal

    N5

    Exactly.

    That’s what annoyed me with the guy earlier.

    He’s being deliberately inflammatory coming on and saying something like that then skulking off. Its like, how dare you come on and say something like that that belittle what is the vast majority of fans out there thoroughly pissed off with everything. So you either said that because you’ve got such an agenda for Wenger and you’ve got nothing else to say or you’re being inflammatory.

    Either way I have no sympathy for you. And as usual he spoke of hypocrisy but the only hypocrite was him throwing around “Anti Wenger” as if everyone on here has some agenda and it turn them into raving imbeciles when the only reason I can think of for his own comment is that he has a MASSIVE agenda.

  3. N5

    Cesc, I didn’t see the comment mate, but I’ve not seen you get heated in a while so I assume it was shitty. Do you know the guys name so I can read it.

  4. MidwestGun

    Cesc –
    Ya I know. Just don’t care. Lol. Chambers is the best option in my opinion. And as long as we have Arteta, Flamini, or even JW at CdM, we aren’t gonna be successful. JW isn’t a good enough tackler and his ankles aren’t gonna hold up, anyhow. But it really doesn’t matter as AW will push on with the status quo.

  5. Thank you and goodnight

    @Tunny

    Listen to John Terry after tonight’s game. He was massively pissed off that they conceded a goal on the counter attack
    ” that’s the second time this season we’ve conceded a goal on the counter attack and it’s not acceptable”……yes we all know he’s a cunt, but 2 goals from counters in 5 games and he’s fuming. We’ve conceded 4 goals from set pieces/crosses and all we can say is, “we weren’t as bad last year” always excuses but nothings done about it or looked into it. No one from the board down to the manager wants to accept responsibility, right down to the players. How are we supposed to improve IF THEY can’t see that things are not right. Last night we were in every department and what does arteta have to say about it…..” we created as many chances as they did”….you what?? Instead of saying…….” I apologise to the fans as that type of performance is not acceptable for a club of our stature and to our paying supporters”. The club from the board down to the manager are taking the piss out of the supporters and think we are that stupid that they can mug us off, now that’s why people are getting pissed off. A bit of transparency and honesty is what the fans deserve at the least.

  6. kwik fit

    CA

    If it had off happened to one of the lesser members of the squad it wouldn’t have been so bad. Debuchy was , however, arguably our best player this season to date. He will be sorely missed.

  7. Dissenter

    I don’t want anymore stand in players. They give Wenger a reason not to buy properly.

    No to Diarra. He’s not the player he used to be anyway [ flash bulb moment for Arteta and Flamin]

    I’ll rather drop out of the CL and have that push Wenger to buy a proper DM.
    We brought in Arteta to stand-in, now he’s hard to get rid of.
    We brought back Flamini to also stand-in, now he’s stuck with us for another two seasons.

  8. Romford Pele

    Mid,

    2 goals and an assist for Gervinho tonight. Check out Roma’s fourth goal, awesome football. First time through ball from Totti, Gervinho pace, checks back in on the FB and finishes assuredly on his weaker foot.

    Great performance by Roma, and without De Rossi, Strootman and Castan. Promising.

    Manolas looks quality btw

  9. tunnygriffboy

    Tyag

    Totally agree with you. No problem in what you say at all. There should have been a open and frank exchange of views behind closed doors last night, even if it was just the players. Oh and Terry is a cunt 🙂

  10. Dissenter

    Midwest,
    “I would try Chambers at Cdm and put Rambo next to him. It’s obvious as hell we need 2 screeners in front of back 4. If we have to go back to 4-5-1 of last year so be it”

    I know it’s desperation time but putting this 19 year old in defensive midfield will be near-suicidal.
    The defensive midfield position is one that relies on reading the game early to break-up plays. Defensive midfielders are the the most likely players to move on to becoming managers as a result.

    Chambers is prodigious, I get that but is his football IQ high enough at the moment?
    He looks more like a CB.

  11. tunnygriffboy

    RP

    Just seen Draxler on highlights and was thinking about your man crush on him loooooooool. Like Wenger Eagle and Firmino 🙂 🙂

  12. Dissenter

    TYAGN,
    “I wonder if diaby has ever finished while having sex? He’s so unlucky he’d probably snap his cock or dislocate his hip while thrusting.”

    Thrusting is for paupers.
    Why stress out when someone else can do it for you. 😉

  13. MidwestGun

    Dissenter –
    Don’t know if he has the passing range or experience to deal with the flow of the game but I’m willing to see that, especially if we are gonna stay with the current formation. I just can’t see Arteta or Flamini attempt it anymore. It hurts my eyes and my heart.

  14. kwik fit

    Tottenham play docectatic locov. Where are they from I hear you ask.
    Their a small club from north London. Boom Boom 🙂

  15. Dissenter

    Jack Wilshere before the BVB game; “We need to set a marker”

    Jack Wilshere after the BVB game “Arsenal will bounce back”

    This lad loves simple cliches. Can someone ask him to just shat-tap.
    He is showing his mental strength, i guess.

  16. Dissenter

    You guys be very very careful about Mocking Spursday night.

    The winner of the Europa league gets an automatic qualification into the CL proper.

    4th place might not be enough.

  17. london gunner

    Dissenter

    Suicide is playing a legless Arteta, whose so ill suited because he has no stamina or strength or pace as well as his decision making.instincts in high pressure situations such as fast counter attacks is awful. When arteta goes against a team that press he makes simple mistakes that lead to goals.

    As for Flamini his got no understanding of the game at least not these days, his reckless doesn’t think just rushes about usually aimlessly.

    Chambers at the very least would be a nuisance to the opposition because he has the stamina and strength to combat other teams on the counter to keep up with their players.

    As for reading the game… I dunno if you give him a clear mandate to keep back and act as the first line of defence between the back 4 and the enemy that’s already an improvement on Arflam.

    His already shown his a confident player whose mature beyond his years at the end of the day some players act like veterans before their age.

  18. MidwestGun

    Bottle –
    Ya.. ya.. I know. Like I said it won’t happen, So it’s a moot point.

    London –
    I’m 100% with you on this one. If we switch back to 4-2-3-1 he wouldn’t be all alone either.

  19. london gunner

    Gilberto had a shit range of passing but he sure was a great DM for us and a massively underrated Arsenal legend.

    In an ideal world you will have that DM whose fully well rounded but right now Chambers is what we have.

    His passing I would gage is no worse than Flamini’s which isn’t saying much

    As for arteta his a great passer at passing backwards.

    Thing is I wouldn’t care if Chambers passed backwards as much as arteta as long as he gave us something defensively which arteta does not.

    The title holding mid is usually an excuse for a player who isn’t very good.

    A holding mid who is actually good is basically a DM with some passing ability
    or a deeplying playmaker who recycles play (but also starts of attacking moves)

    A poor holding mid in arteta is someone who is piss poor defensively and adds nothing to the creation of our attacks

  20. Cesc Appeal

    N5

    He didn’t really say anything like nasty, or offensive. Just really irritated me that he came on to say we’re all overreacting basically, it was just one game. Rosicky Arsenal it was, not even a long post. But we’d had Mach III or something just before saying we’re all moaners and that we should “keep the faith.”

    I said how much I hate all this “have faith” bollocks when it comes to Arsenal. Faith implies you have no grounds, or no plausible basis for your belief in something yet you do anyway. In a football manager that is highly disturbing.

    So I suppose I was rattled by that one. All I said to him was sort of a “oh here we go, the good old this reaction is all based on one game crap.” He can’t have believed it himself.

    A guy on twitter from ESPN last night said criticisms of Arsenal in big games are always the same – because Arsenal’s failings in big games are always the same.

    Another said Arsenal: Missed opportunity in the transfer window, ever increasing injury list, shown up against the big teams away from home. Rinse, repeat.

    It’s spot on. I think that is really what everyone is pissed with. Same old same old. Same failings, Wenger alludes blame from a lot of fans even though by the very fact that they find themselves continually in the position of defence on repetitive issues they should start to be losing belief in Wenger themselves! Unless they truly believe they are surrounded by moaners without any validity in their gripes!

  21. london gunner

    Maybe Wenger buys players then plays them out of position on purpose.

    Its a means of stamping his authority.

    Look if he buys players who know exactly what they are doing

    So an out right striker, central playmaker, wingers and a defensive DM

    once that team gel he looses control. They will have their defined roles and as Wenger does little in the way of tactics he becomes a little bit redundant. Instead he becomes a voyeur.

    By playing players out of position they are in a position of weakness which enables him to control them further

    I think he purposely plays to Ozil’s and other players weaknesses He then tries to shape them in his vision of what he wants. Maybe so he can be seen as genius.

    Its like he constantly needs projects. Whereas managers like klopp, simeone and garcia don’t really try to shape players in particular way. Instead they buy or keep players that fit their (as in the managers style of football) then play those said players to their strengths.

  22. N5

    Cesc, I think the issue is they come on here and read comments like “I hope Wenger gets caught by ISIS and struck by lightening” and Ozil is a goggle eyed cunt, etc and that’s what sticks in their minds. Then when the majority are not speaking in the positive they get caught in the sweeping generalisation.

    We are guilty by association mate, that is all.

  23. MidwestGun

    I would try something like this.
    4-4-1-1
    Schezzer
    Bell, Mert, Kos, Gibbs
    Sanchez or Theo,Chambers, JW or Rambo, Ox or Campbell
    …………………..Ozil or Santi
    …………………..Welbeck or Nogoal

  24. Cesc Appeal

    N5

    Talk about bad luck, caught by ISIS and THEN hit by lightening.

    Mind you if Wenger was in Syria/Iraq and got caught then his deadline day jaunts are getting more ludicrous if he’s travelling to the middle east to make a point!

  25. Cesc Appeal

    MidWest

    That was what City were operating tonight, Silva behind Dzeko, Navas and Nasri wide in the middle.

    I’d also like to see Chambers in CDM, can’t be worse than what we have/don’t have. But our defence is a shambles, the depth.

  26. Sam

    Chambers need to stay as back up CB
    My choice for DM till next window should be coquelin
    At least he can make recovery tackle, he’s quicker than Arteta more disciplined than flamini

  27. tunnygriffboy

    I like the idea of Chambers in midfield . However we’re so stuffed at CB I want to wrap him in cotton wool for fear of injury. Shouldn’t come to this aaaaaaargh.

    What about Coquelin or Hayden ? Sad thing is I’m serious.

  28. Justice4 Sonogo

    Shez was awful and should b benched for the next few games.
    Arteta shouldn’t b near the starting 11.
    And for all those who hyped Welbeck over poor Sonogo should have got a reality check , the guy is just not good enough & not much better Sonogo may b older and experienced nothing more IMO

  29. tunnygriffboy

    Jack questioning our tactics. Mmmmmmmm. Played too much in own half meaning if we lost ball they were right on us. Should have played a bit longer rather than tried to play through them in our own half. Hit them on the counter.

    Lad being honest. Hope he’s put his thoughts to the manager.

  30. tunnygriffboy

    Kompany asked after tonights game ” are Bayern a team you would like to emulate “. His reply ” maybe in 100years, they have tradition “

  31. N5

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  32. Salvage

    We called players like Gervinho and Vela shit, but those players leave and immediately get their mojos back.

    WENGER : DESTROYING PLAYERS SINCE 2008

  33. Jeff

    People are always urging us to be positive. So I’m going to look on the bright side this morning because I’ve just realised that if we end up in the Europa league, we might come up against Tottenham and beat them. Wouldn’t like that? No! Hmm curious, this positivity business isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be after all.

  34. Salvage

    By the way, Goal and ESPN are reporting that Wenger is looking towards YOBO or Lugano as options in defence 🙂 . Though Goal are shameless rumour mongers, but we all know this sort of thing is right up Le Senile’s alley.

  35. qna

    “we all know this sort of thing is right up Le Senile’s alley.”

    You mean an open admission of being WRONG!!! No I dont think so mate.

  36. Salvage

    qna ,

    Right up his alley >> Getting finished players that were rejected or retired from other clubs to come and plug a hole or need in Arsenal(Hole that he created himself).

  37. peanuts&monkeys

    Nothing. Simply nothing but indifference can describe Wenger’s inactivity over a DM and a striker. Sack the bastard!

    Lets get into the brass tacks…

    But who can stand up and discuss his sacking in the BoD? Who can move this proposal? Gazidis? Does Gazidis have the balls? is there a possibility that Wenger gets Gazidis into trouble if he tries to get Wenger sacked through the clout Wenger enjoys with Kroenke?

  38. peanuts&monkeys

    Do we know of another football manager of EPL who deliberately doesn’t add players in spite of having the money? If not, then what could be the reason? Is he restricted by the BoD to get new players?

    Is he getting paid to remain quiet and withstand this barrage of abuses from all us fans, press? If so, there is always a limit to which he can hold up with: lets go after him. Lets get the press go after him and blame him squarely for everything.

  39. peanuts&monkeys

    Do we know of another football manager of EPL who deliberately doesn’t add players in spite of having the money? If not, then what could be the reason of Wenger doing this strange thing? Is he restricted by the BoD to get new players?

    Is he getting paid to remain quiet and withstand this barrage of abuses from all us fans, press? If so, there is always a limit to which he can hold up with: lets go after him. Lets get the press go after him and blame him squarely for everything.

  40. qna

    P&M, its not just Wenger that needs the sack. Gazidis needs to be sacked too. Need to bring in a CEO that understands what it takes to compete at the top level. If we dont correct that then we are just going to get a David Moyes type to replace Wenger. I can just imagine going to somebody like Tony Adams who would not improve things and probably make them worse.

    I am seriously worried about the number of people who think that Welbeck was a good buy. The fact that LVG has recognized that Welbeck is not good enough speaks volumes about him and it also speaks volumes that Gazidis and Wenger bought him in.

    I would rather see Gazidis replaced first and given a year to get settled and then bring in the right manager to replace wenger, while vitoeing transfers. This way we would get a Klopp or Simeone rather than a Keown or Adams.

  41. Jeff

    QNA,

    Wenger knew very well that Welbeck was not the solution and he only wanted him on loan anyway. But it all got painted differently just to satisfy the press and the fans that it was anything other than a panic buy to replace Giroud while he’s injured – who of course as we all know, is also not the solution. So the whole damn thing is crooked from top to bottom but his followers are always so quick to give him the benefit of the doubt until it all starts to go horribly wrong. And then every post and statement ends with “let’s hope he does something in the winter or the summer”.

    A decade of “hoping” has passed and they have still to learn the lesson. Even some intelligent people with good football knowledge come on here and sometimes openly but mostly implicitly start making excuses for him because they cannot admit to themselves or others that we have been and continue to be mismanaged in almost every respect and the incompetence not only goes unpunished but is rewarded with renewed contracts, improved salaries and fat bonuses. How anyone can fail to see the rising rot is unfathomable.

  42. Thank you and goodnight

    @Qna

    A new manager would improve certain things on the pitch e.g playing to players strengths, tactics and organisation which would improve the team by 50% easily. But let’s not kid ourselves the new guy would be given millions to spend on player recruitment.

  43. Thank you and goodnight

    @Jeff

    Well said. The funny thing is though that we are called non fans, because we have the balls to say no, this is wrong. By burying our head in the sand for years, we’re partly responsible for allowing the club to take the piss out of us fans. Highest ticket prices against the big boys to watch us get arse fucked on a regular basis by them.

  44. Wallace

    from the Guardian comments section –

    “Arsenal fans need to calm down. Top teams do not go to Dortmund and win convincingly. Generally speaking, they actually lose badly. Real Madrid (under St Jose Mourinho – patron saint of defensive midfields and hardy defences) was annihilated at that stadium only 18 months ago having already been soundly beaten there in the group stages (that is to say: even knowing they were amazing, and knowing he had to be wary, and knowing he needed a plan, he couldn’t come up with anything to stop them winning 4-1 in the semifinal – a scoreline that flattered Madrid, actually.)

    Carlo Ancelotti took his team there last year with a 3-0 lead from the first leg, snatched at the Bernabeu against an injury-ridden side, only for his team to nearly throw it away as Dortmund not only completely dominated, they were within a few inches of forcing penalties. Ancelotti had his superstars, Klopp had merely got a couple players back. Only one team looked the class of the competition on that day.

    Bayern Munich hates that stadium – scene of a couple ugly thrashings over the past three seasons.

    It is an ugly stadium to play in. Intimidating, loud and a place where Dortmund’s players feel very good – feeding off the energy of their crowd.

    As to Arsenal – yes. There were massive problems thrown into rather splendid relief by Dortmund in their natural habitat. I could write an essay on how both fullbacks pushing forward in a formation with no real holding midfielder left a giant, horrible, lovely hole in the middle of the pitch for Dortmund’s pacy players to just run into – which explains their many successful attacks.

    I could point out that the players, still adjusting to a formation that seems to have them confused as to what they are supposed to be doing in relation to each other, all seemed to be overcompensating for each other at various points of the game.

    I could write, at length, at Wenger’s refusal, for years and years now, to train his squad to either press or learn to cope with pressing at that level. It’s not difficult to train, which is what makes it a little sad the players aren’t getting the coaching they need.

    Now let’s hope Wenger analyses this game carefully.

    I’m not a #wengerout type of fan. But a #wengeradapt attitude might be useful. He’s an intelligent man. He must see what the problems are against top opposition.

    Arsenal has players good enough, brilliant enough, clever enough and technically gifted enough to do anything any other team does. The squad needs a couple more players and some less naive coaching.”

  45. TheBayingMob

    AW has called got patience with Welbz. Frankly no. The concept of patience has kept the wolf from
    grandpas door for too long. He bought a 23 (soon to be 24) yo £16m pound striker from Man United. Fuck patience I’ve had enough of it. Start banging them in Danny boy!!

  46. Rocky Pires

    I think Wenger learnt alot against Dortmund and thankfully it was more or less our full squad as we always have ahad the arguments “oh if Jack was fit or if MKos was fit”.
    This result should leave them under no illusions they must get back to basics defend as a team, fight for every ball and quit the fancy dan shit in the centre of the park.
    Thats the mentality side.
    Physically we need to play 4-2-3-1 with Ramsey in alongside one of Flam/Arteta.
    Ok its not ideal but its what we have at the moment.
    What is forgotten despite Ramsey s goalsd last year he hounded in midfield and won possesion so much . This year he is concentrating on attack and little flicks.
    Ramsey is a top class player but needs to be running onto the ball at pace not from a static position where he cant sort his feet out.

    I ‘d love if we could spare Chambers in CDM but I dont think we can as were bit short at the back eh Arsene.

    For the Villa game the same personal; should take to the field in a 4-2-3-1 formation and show their worth.
    Droppoing Ozil is an easy way out, I know its tempting to put him in against Villa as his energy will be needed but we need to see more from Ozil.

  47. Emiratesstroller

    Noone would argue that Arsenal’s team/squad has a lot of gifted technical players such as Ozil,Cazorla, Rosicky and Wilshire.

    The problem is that most teams who now play Arsenal have identified our inherent weaknesses and play a pressing and counter attacking game against us.

    Also our weaknesses include poor defence on the left side of the pitch particularly when you play the likes of Ozil,Cazorla and Podolski in front of Monreal
    and of course how the team defends set pieces with our zonal marking system.

    The reality is that Wenger chooses always his own game whoever the opposition may be,. He does not seem to take much account of the opposition.

    I doubt that Wenger would make a decent ‘chess player’ because of the rigidity in which the team plays. In that game you need to take account of how the
    opponent thinks and plays.

    What is also very clear at the moment is that several of our key players are not playing particularly well. That has to be a concern.

    The bottom line is that whilst we have not lost a game in EPL we are struggling
    also in all our games. We could have easily lost all 4 games that we have played.

  48. Emiratesstroller

    One other point which needs to be made is that it is fairly obvious that both Arteta and Flamini are not playing well, but are potential liabilities. Arteta lacks ‘legs’ and Flamini is being ‘carded’ in almost every game he plays and is ‘high risk’.

    The question I would ask is why Coquelin was kept at Arsenal if he is not being
    considered a potential replacement. He is younger and has a decent engine.
    Surely he cannot be playing worse than Flamini and Arteta!

  49. Rocky Pires

    Decent point Emirtestroller, Arteta and Flam had their high points last yea5 but this summer was the time to put one off them to grass and sign a new CDM . Maybe the CDM was Chambers but anyways we are where we are and Wenger needs to clean the mess up.

    As you say both are not of the required level for Chammpions League or indeed a top 2 team in EPL.
    TO exploit their weakness by playing them in 4-14-1 is just unbelievable.
    we need to revert to 4-2-3-1 and give them Ramseys energy. Tell Ramsey to play it simple and concentrate on defence for a few weeks. less marauding runs into the box , mind your own box and make sure Mert is not left exposed.

    This will then give our attacking players more space, Alexi Ozil/OX and Welbeck are more than capable or running at defences and exposing them.
    Why have we not being threading through balls to out ST?
    Well if all our midfielders are on top of each other its very hard to have space in the no.10 role when we have 4 players in there and then the opposition defense and midfield also.
    WE are crowding ourselves out in 4-1-41 and need to make a decision to keep Jack/Ramsey back, to get a bit of solidarity in defense again.

  50. qna

    Wallace, that article premises itself on the fact that we are all of a sudden upset because of the performance at Dortmund. No, that is not true. Arsenal were shit long before that. This has been years of frustration. That performance was a continuation of a story that extends itself back to an 8-2 mauling at old trafford and similar performances away at the big (and even smaller) clubs last season.

    I think that even AKBs like yourself would agree that Arsenal are not close to contending for the EPL or UCL. Why is that acceptable to you. Why are you … CALM

    Wenger is simply not a good manager anymore. The egotistical maniac is trying to do the impossible by trying to compete with the best with substandard players like Giroud, Arteta, Flamini, Monreal, and now Welbeck. Last seasons FA cup was won ONLY because we did not have to go away to any decent club. We were handed the trophy by lesser clubs who knocked out City, Chelsea and even United – who we would not have beaten even at home.

  51. qna

    TYAG, we are already now in the bracket of spuds and everton. But its more embarrassing since we dwarf them in terms of our financial spending power.

  52. Wallace

    TYAG

    i’d say he’s a Wenger fan with reservations.

    qna

    firstly, we’re not shit. shit teams don’t go head to head with the Champions and for long spells look the better team. secondly, i’m not an AKB. he infuriates me as much as he does most rational people. maybe i have a little more respect for him than most on here, but that’s not saying much. and thirdly, it’s football. i spend way too much of my life thinking about things Arsenal. but at the end of the day there’s nothing serious at stake here. if following the team made me as miserable as it does some of you on here i’d give a lot thought to looking at other ways to keep myself entertained.

  53. Bergkamplegend

    What a trip to watch Cesc score his first goal under Maureen last night!!

    Another beautiful gift from Le specialist in tactics.

  54. Wallace

    qna

    “Last seasons FA cup was won ONLY because we did not have to go away to any decent club. We were handed the trophy by lesser clubs who knocked out City, Chelsea and even United – who we would not have beaten even at home.”

    come on, man, troll harder!

  55. Bamford13

    Wallace

    An intelligent, well-written comment there from a supporter who is obviously an intelligent observer of the game. Except that he gets everything wrong because of his flawed underlying premise and perspective, which is that Wenger is a competent, rational manager who knows what he is doing and is capable of change.

    He acknowledges, for example, that Arsenal’s set-up had both fullbacks bombing forward, with no real CDM. That in itself is proof positive that Wenger doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing because (I) he is the one giving instructions to these fullbacks and (ii) that is the same woeful “CDM” we’ve had for two years now.

    Yet a supporter, like this writer, who begins with the premise that Wenger knows what he’s doing cannot see the obvious implications of these two points, regardless of how intelligent he is. He has just identified two things that undermine or contradict his first and most important premise, yet he continues on as if he hadn’t, for the conclusion he draws when watching Arsenal is always the same: Wenger knows what he is doing; Wenger will get it right.

    He doesn’t, and he won’t.

    Unless by “knowing what he’s doing,” you mean going with the same woefully inadequate CDM and CF for two years, despite having ample money to spend and there being many talented players on the market. Or unless by “getting it right,” you mean eking out a fourth place finish.

    Yes, good teams have trouble at Dortmund. I watched Dortmund dismantle Madrid there last year. It was a fantastic performance — one, by the way, that no Wenger side for nine years would be capable of. The difference, however, is that Madrid never looked a shambles, never looked poorly organized, never looked woeful in the manner that Arsenal did Tuesday night. They simply got beaten by a fantastically well-managed Dortmund side.

    It’s apparently going to take many more woeful and inadequate performances to convince supporters like this that their man has lost it, that he doesn’t know what he is doing, and that he must be shown to the exit as soon as possible.

  56. Bergkamplegend

    Wallace : so I guess that you will be happy if we finish 4th this season again, but don’t worry, you’re not the only one… lol

    And in fact you’re, right : we won the FA Cup next season, so we are now equal to Barcelona, Real, Bayern and co. lol

  57. Bamford13

    Wallace

    Except that QNA is correct about the FA Cup. If he’s not, make a counter-argument.

    For God’s sake look at the Final, where we were fortunate to come back from two goals down to a depleted Hull City side who were missing two of the best players in their starting XI.

  58. qna

    Wallace: “firstly, we’re not shit. shit teams don’t go head to head with the Champions and for long spells look the better team.”

    This happens every week in every league in the world. The difference is when this happens, the champions find a way to win. It certainly happens regularly when Arsenal plays. Every team in the league seems to be able to head to head with us and look better more dangerous than us. That never used to be the case.

    Yes, shit is an overstatement, but we are just another Everton or Tottenham now – neither of them being shit, but neither of them being world class either.

    Apologies for calling you an AKB if your not. But you are defending what is indefensible in my opinion.

  59. Bamford13

    QNA

    “Wenger is simply not a good manager anymore. The egotistical maniac is trying to do the impossible by trying to compete with the best with substandard players like Giroud, Arteta, Flamini, Monreal, and now Welbeck.”

    Good posts this AM, QNA.

  60. Leedsgunner

    It’s impolite at the very least to say someone is “trolling” just because one can counter an intelligent argument with one of their own.

    Well written qna.

    Shame the powers that be at the club cannot see sense.

    Why are you scrounging at the bottom of barrel for free agents like Yobo and Luguano when we had all summer to sign a quality replacement for TV5?

    Honestly our club dares to charge the fans the highest tickets in the world but it conducts its transfer policy like a relegation bound club.

  61. qna

    Leeds, the problem is the “powers that be” are full of people that have the opinion of Wallace and our old mate Kev. Its like they see the current situation through some sort of warped vision where the club is on the right track. All failures can be explained away as out of its control.

    Thats what my earlier comment about removing Gazidis and somehow replacing him with someone that sees “straight”. I dont believe that just sacking wenger will have much of an effect. I think the replacement will be no better. The root of our problem goes much deeper and you can see it in the mentality of many fans too.

  62. peanuts&monkeys

    ““Last seasons FA cup was won ONLY because we did not have to go away to any decent club. We were handed the trophy by lesser clubs who knocked out City, Chelsea and even United – who we would not have beaten even at home.”

    Yes. Yes. Yes. Correct.

    And for god’s sake, we should not have won that easy mickey mouse trophy. Its a false pride trophy.

  63. Wallace

    Bamford/qna

    we had to beat spurs, liverpool and everton to get to the final. it’s a cup competition, you have to beat whoever you’re drawn against. i’m not understanding your point. how was our winning it somehow invalid?

  64. peanuts&monkeys

    We ARE shit. 8-2 is shit. 5-1 is shit. 6-0 is shit. 6-3 is shit. Then why are we not shit?

    The way we play football now – the lack of planning and strategy is SHIT, the complete lack of leadership on the pitch is SHIT, the complete absence of in-game tactics is SHIT. The why are we not shit????

  65. peanuts&monkeys

    ” The egotistical maniac is trying to do the impossible by trying to compete with the best with substandard players like Giroud, Arteta, Flamini, Monreal, and now Welbeck.”

    NOOOOOO. He is not trying. He is NOT EVEN trying. He is not as naive as you guys think that he will try to go to the moon on a Boeing 737. He simply wants some of the agitated fans to believe HE IS TRYING.

  66. Rosicky@Arsenal

    People criticizing Arsenal defence and hailing Chelseas defence didnt noticed a point

    GOALS CONCEEDED

    CHELSEA ARSENAL

    Burnley 1 Everton 2
    Everton 3 Crystal palace 1
    Leicester 0 Leicester 1
    Swansea 2 City 2

    Total 6 6

    In 4 PL games both defences have conceeded 6 goals .Also to be considered that Arsenal have played two tough teams City and Everton while Chelse have comparitively easy games. Le grove moaners are so short sighted they have only one point agenda..Blame Weger and that is it. If people consider Chelseas defence as rock solid how & why did they conceeded the same number of goals as Arsenal.
    Also considering Mourinho is a master defensive coach & Wenger is novice as far as defence is concerned.

    I wud not defend Arsenals performance agaisnt Dortmund as they were terribly poor but that cud have been due to fatigue after Saturdays city game,Also Ozil is playing awfully bad.The team played very poor indeed. But v must keep in mind the same team beat a better Dortmund side last year in the same fixture. So the logic that Wenger is poor or the team is poor makes no sense.Mayb Alexis and Welbeck need Gelling? Maybe some positional changes need to be done?

    Last but not the least what happened to Chelsea last night. A draw against Schalke a much smaller team than Dortmund and also at home too.

    Mouriniho lovers pls cooment!!!!!

    Atletico losing to Olympiakos shud also be an eye opener for Le Grove moaners.

    Its a very competitive world mates. Nobody can win day in day out.

    PATIENCE IS NEEDED.

  67. Wallace

    LeedsGunner

    “Last seasons FA cup was won ONLY because we did not have to go away to any decent club. We were handed the trophy by lesser clubs who knocked out City, Chelsea and even United – who we would not have beaten even at home.”

    you think the above’s an intelligent argument?

  68. Bamford13

    Wallace

    You’re not understanding the point because you’re not trying to. The point is not that it was somehow an “invalid” FA Cup victory. It was as “valid” as any other, but that doesn’t mean it was all that impressive or noteworthy. That is, it only meant so much — which frankly wasn’t that much.

    Had we faced a top side we would’ve lost, just as we did all season long. And the games we did win, like the Final, were none too impressive, none too convincing.

    Yes we won, but we wouldn’t have had we played better sides, and our victory in the end didn’t mean nearly as much as some imagined.

    Indeed one sees how little it meant — how little it signified about the team’s quality — in how we’ve started this year: woefully.

    Same side, same problems. Nothing to be happy about or impressed with.

  69. Leedsgunner

    For the record I’m glad we won the FA Cup — but one cup win in a decade does not cover over years of mismanagement at the board and on the field.

    The FA Cup, I would argue, is the bare minimum we should expect from a club with our wage bill, stadium, scouting network and facilities. We are the Arsenal, not Stoke City.

  70. qna

    Wallace: “we had to beat spurs, liverpool and everton to get to the final”

    All played at home. We got smashed by both Everton and Liverpool away. Wallace I know that your trolling, which is fine. I see the funny side of winding up people charged about any issue. But the fact is that many people share this opinion genuinely.

    Those people, who may or may not include yourself, have very little understanding of winning by design, or winning by chance. Every now and then you get a team that wins due to fortune, teams that are clearly not of the best in the land that win the FA cup – like Wigan. Now the question is, are we like Chelsea (who have basically owned the cup recently) or City – indisputably worthy winners. Or are we like Wigan.

    But if you look at it without bias, Arsenal have failed to win a trophy or even be a genuine trophy contender – for nearly a decade. Then finally we win one. Can we claim to be worthy like City or Chelsea, or did we get a fortunate run at the cup. Even Wigan were more worthy, as they had to beat City in the final, a recent cup and league winner.

    I really dont expect you to understand wallace.

  71. Bamford13

    Rosicky

    One, who said Chelsea’s defense is “rock solid”? Anyone who saw Terry’s own goal or who sees Cahill’s limitations recognizes they have their weaknesses too. Yet their back four is still better than ours. Whatever weaknesses JT has, he remains a better CB than Mertesacker simply on account of his having decent pace and athleticism where Mert today is a lumbering oaf. Kosc might possibly be marginally better than Cahill — maybe — but their fullbacks are twice as good as ours, which puts the argument to bed.

    The point is not that THEY are perfect, but that WE are miles from being sound and solid at the back.

    As for fatigue Tuesday, this is on the manager. He is the one who played the same midfield and attack — save Arteta — for 85 minutes Saturday. He is the one who didn’t rotate properly. Dortmund played Saturday as well, yet they looked fresh and lively.

    Patience? We’ve been a shambles — or at least inadequate — for nine years now.

    No offense, but please funk off with your lame apologetics.

  72. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ Wallace

    Tks for eye opening of Wenger haters.

    Dortmund is a Castle yet to be conquered by the likes of Bayern & Madrid.

    It was pleasure reading Maureens Real thrashed 4-1 two years ago at Dortmund in CL.

    PURE PLEASURE.

  73. Jim Lahey

    “PATIENCE IS NEEDED.”

    Fine how much longer do we have to wait? I mean, we’ve had the same problems for years, are we to go on another 5/6 years waiting for them to be solved? I think we have all been patience for long enough.

    “they were terribly poor but that cud have been due to fatigue after Saturdays city game”

    Really? A month into the season and we are already putting in poor performances due to fatigue? Why are the team fatigued already? Poor fitness, players not being rotated? If thats the case there is only one person who gets the blame there I am afraid.

    “But v must keep in mind the same team beat a better Dortmund side last year in the same fixture.”

    What does that tell us? Dortmund learned from their mistakes and moved forward and a year later their team missing 4/5 first team players steamrolled us.

  74. Wallace

    Bamford

    “The point is not that it was somehow an “invalid” FA Cup victory. It was as “valid” as any other, but that doesn’t mean it was all that impressive or noteworthy.”

    so when Aguero scored that last minute goal against 10 man QPR to win City their first title in god knows how long, your reaction was, ‘fucks sake, 2-1 down going into stoppage time against a relegated side’?

  75. Bamford13

    Rosicky

    Yes, but as I said above, unlike you I WATCHED Dortmund dismantle Madrid. As impressive as Dortmund were — and again, no Wenger side in the last nine years could do what Klopp’s side did (and does) — Madrid never looked the shambles that we did Tuesday night.

    Because unlike us, they’re properly managed. They might lose to a fantastic Dortmund side, but they don’t look like eleven players who have never played together before.

    Some of you are philistines who look only at results. You have no ability to watch a game and assess a team based on the quality of their play, their organization. In the end, some of you should simply read the box scores, because that’s all you understand about the game.

  76. Wallace

    qna

    “But if you look at it without bias, Arsenal have failed to win a trophy or even be a genuine trophy contender – for nearly a decade. Then finally we win one. Can we claim to be worthy like City or Chelsea, or did we get a fortunate run at the cup. Even Wigan were more worthy, as they had to beat City in the final, a recent cup and league winner. I really dont expect you to understand wallace.”

    i don’t understand because it’s 99% nonsense…Wigan were more worthy?

  77. Wallace

    Bamford

    “Some of you are philistines who look only at results. You have no ability to watch a game and assess a team based on the quality of their play, their organization. In the end, some of you should simply read the box scores, because that’s all you understand about the game.”

    i remember you saying you were only a dick online. i don’t believe you.

  78. Bamford13

    Wallace

    I really don’t remember what my reaction was. Probably something like, ‘City haven’t played all that well today, but their quality has seen them through.’

    Yet I had seen City beat top teams that year and seen them play sparkling football. Arsenal on the other hand was thoroughly humiliated by top teams last year and rarely if ever played good football,

    That City side were better than — and could beat and did beat — every other side in the EPL. The same cannot be said of the Arsenal side that won the FA last year. That Arsenal side were far from the bet team and were in fact demolished by the top sides all year.

    Face it: they were a mediocre and inadequate side that won the FA because they didn’t have to play the top sides. If they had had to, they would’ve lost.

    Or do you think they would’ve beaten City or Chelsea? Don’t make me laugh.

  79. Rosicky@Arsenal

    @ bamford 13

    Real did not looked shambles as Arsenal did

    And still lost 4-1

    Funny mate.

    whats the difference between looking shambles and losing 4-1????

    Doing Argument for the sake of an argument is what Le Grovers do.

  80. Bamford13

    Wallace

    You may think I’m being a dick, but what I’ve said is true: people who say ‘lots of people lose at Dortmund’ or ‘Madrid lost at Dortmund’ or ‘Atletico lost too’ are not accounting for HOW these teams played in their losses, HOW they lost.

    It is HOW we played in our loss to Dortmund — namely, woefully — that matters, not the fact that we lost.

    Two different teams can lose 2-0 at Dortmund yet put in two completely different performances. One side could’ve played well and been well-organized, well-managed despite the result. The other could’ve been a shambles and poor. That’s the game. The box score doesn’t tell you everything.

    We were the latter team — a poor shambles, poorly-organized and poorly-managed.

  81. Bamford13

    Rosicky

    Your last post proves my point: you haven’t a clue about this game. For you the score is all that matters and tells the full and complete story.

    This is totally and completely false.

    A team can lose — even lose badly — despite playing well, despite being well-managed, and for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they lose on account of individual errors, sometimes they fade in the final ten, sometimes they push too many forward in the final ten and get countered.

    In contrast, Arsenal lost on Tuesday night because they were crap in every single way — top to bottom. Poorly organized, poorly instructed, poor performances, poor player selection, inadequate personnel …. The list goes on and on.

    A fucking shambles — but because you see only the scoreline, the performance, the disorganization, the disorder don’t really register with you.

    Which is why I say you should probably just read the box scores rather than watching the games — that’s all you think matters anyways.

  82. Wallace

    Bamford

    ” people who say ‘lots of people lose at Dortmund’ or ‘Madrid lost at Dortmund’ or ‘Atletico lost too’ are not accounting for HOW these teams played in their losses, HOW they lost.”

    are you saying Madrid were quite impressive while losing 4-1 to Dortmund?

  83. Thank you and goodnight

    That’s the problem us doomers have. Every year we moan about the same things that go unresolved, and every year the wenger supporters say, patience it’s only one result, judge him in may. Until wenger and kroenke fuck off we will be having same debate every year and more often than not the doomers will be right.