Le Champ of the year award | Fans shouldn’t design club crests

by & filed under News Review.

Good morning fellow Gooners. This morning is the same as yesterday and the same as the day before. The constant rehashing of a stagnant news feed is beyond dull and most of it is made up. So I shan’t be delving there this morning.

I will quickly jump into the amusing story about Everton and their new crest. They didn’t consult every single fan on the planet so there’s been a huge uproar… now the club have said they’ll consult with the fans next year.

For gods sake… it’s a club crest. You have to adapt things. Football fans are so stuck in there ways with everything. I mean, Arsenal fans still moan about our last badge which was horrendously outdated by the time we changed it… I still hear people pining for Highbury… you have to move with the times. I think the idea that Everton would consult with fans over a logo is nonsense. What do football fans know about design? Trying to get a design past 3 people in a business is hard enough. Imagine taking advice from 100,000 people who don’t have the first clue about anything to do with design? Madness. How does the saying go… ‘a camel is a horse designed by a committee’…

Anyway. Enough on backward looking fans.

Today we can talk around potential players of the year, and honestly, there aren’t many candidates.

First up…

Theo Walcott was the man who went into the season in a very precarious contract situation, he had one year on his deal and the demand was simple… He wanted to play and he wanted to play centrally. He didn’t sign a deal as we sailed past August 31st which had all us Gooners fearing another high profile loss either in January or this summer for nothing. When I say high profile, I am fully aware that in the grand scheme of our history, he’d probably not be classes as high profile. It was more symbolic for me… another player we’d persisted with. Another player who’d left for pastures new.

Anyway, he was mostly benched for the opening rounds of the season. Gervinho was kind of banging them in for fun whereas Giroud was struggling. Wenger did eventually stop his sulking when our points total looked pitiful and Theo eased himself in. He consistently scored goals most of the season (past November). Mostly they came from outwide but occasionally when he was allowed through he middle, like against Reading… he flew them in from there as well.

If Theo has added anything to his game this year it’s decisiveness. He’s more direct than ever before and he generally knows what to do early. His finishing has been clinical. My favourite goals was then one against Newcastle where he was chopped down in the box, he jumped back up and chipped the keeper. A supreme goal for a man who really lacked in most departments up until recently.

Overall return for the season was double figures assists(14 I think) and 20 odd goals. Can’t argue with that. Not many players returned that without a top class striker to play with.

Santi Cazorla

The little Spaniard joined after the usual 3 year battle to sign him. He arrived as the Cesc solution and he came with a big reputation as a player who could play with both feet… Xavi described him as the best.

It didn’t take long for him to start showing why he was so highly regarded. He was more of a dribbler than Cesc and his skill on the ball could be dazzling at times. His size looked like it could be a problem when i first saw the pint sized magician, trouble for opposition with a hope of manning him off the ball was you couldn’t get close to him. He created space where there was none.

He could also shoot… though I do seem to remember his opening months dotted with a sharp spoon over the bar from pretty much any distance. He scored some crackers though, probably the best came as a consolation against United when he rattled it into the top corner from outside the box at he end.

He was quite heavily overplayed through the season which took its toll on his game. He was ever present in the squad, but not ever present on the pitch… 20 minute bursts of magic would be tempered by chunks of AWOL.

As the season climaxed he found himself played outwide. Many said that he didn’t do a good job there because his stats weren’t as impressive as the ones Lukas was putting in. For me, stats didn’t tell the whole story, he gave us more balance outwide. Having someone who could control the ball, cut in through the centre, make a telling pass… well, it just made us a stronger side. He finished the season with 13 assists and 12 goals. Not a bad return for a player who cost us next to f*ck all. A great buy and a great character to have around the squad.

Mikel Arteta

Now, I know he wasn’t exactly pulling up trees this season, but in the absence of a captain who wanted to captain, I think Arteta really stepped up. He plays with a maturity and confidence the rest of our midfield lacks. His legs can’t hack three games in a week, but his commitment to the cause has never been in doubt. He sometimes slows play down a bit, but generally, he’s the one player you can rely on to battle his way through 90 minutes. He’s a big name in the dressing room and he’s far more a leader than poor old Thomas Vermaelen will be. An outsider for player of the season, but there’s no doubt he’s been very important to our set up and stability in the back 9 of this season.

If I was going to put in an award for half season heroes, I’d have to put Aaron Ramsey in with a shout. He’s come in for some stick over the years, mainly because he’s played out wide right when he’s clearly not a wide right player. When played in the centre midfield with Arteta, he really started to shine. He held his discipline, stuck his foot in and occasionally made a telling pass. His goal towards that back end of the season against Wigan (I think) was well deserved. I think he’ll have a solid future at Arsenal and I’m glad he’s starting to show glimpses of being able to handle football at the higher levels. Also on that list would Laurent Koscielny. Put out in the cold when Arsene Wenger bizarrely gave his 3rd best defender the captains armband at the start of the season…. but when the manager needed to call on the Frenchman after another abysmal performance from Vermaelen, he came in and shone like Alex Ferguson’s nose in the snow. Calm on the ball, agressive on the floor… even solid in the air. 4th place was made ours because of the defence. Our best total in years. He was a major part.

Outside that lot, I don’t think there was much else to shout about!

377 Responses to “Le Champ of the year award | Fans shouldn’t design club crests”

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  1. Santos

    If Cesc joins Manure, I will never believe any player who calls himself an ardent gooner. I hope this doesnt materialize.

  2. Raz

    “Also, it’s going to be pretty much impossible to plan for 4th in the coming seasons.”

    I agree. Some people said that due to our squad and wage bill, we were nailed on for 4th, anything less would be underachieving and anything more would be massive over-achievement for the 12/13 season.

    From now it’ll be so less clear cut. There’s going to be almost no difference in quality between United, Chelsea and City’s teams. I hope we can add ourselves to that too. There will be virtually no difference between Liverpool, Spurs and Everton either – if Everton sell Fellaini and Baines then they’ll almost certainly sign some gems and add major depth to their squad,

    I can see the points difference between 1st and 6th being very low, maybe with goal difference playing a big part. I think there will be an even clearer gulf in quality between the top and middle of the table, and I predict people will in turn say the league has decreased in quality by the end of next season when really it will have just become more competitive. I think the way that something like 8 teams could still have been relegated on the last day of the seasons shows how much it’s changed.

  3. Santos

    Due to wanting to feature as a key player in the world cup, Cesc might make a bold decision, afterall his career has stalled a bit. He wouldn’t envisage another year of stagnation at a place where he is not even highly rated at the moment.

  4. Mayank


    “Every wage bill in the game has risen dramatically since 2006, not just Arsenals”

    Not true. The only time Chelsea’s revenue has paid their wages was when they won the CL. Pretty sure that’s not sustainable. As for Utd they’re on another level to us.

    Pre Emirates we had a wagebill little over Liverpool’s. If we had an increase in proportion to theirs we would be 40-50m below where we are right now.

    We’d probably have the same wagebill as Pool and Spurs. We’d be yo-yoing between 4th and 6th wagebill wise.

  5. Ashwin Gunner


    Just saw your link.. But in any event. If we have the first option to bring him back we should do that. I cannot see us getting 12.5m and losing Cesc to Old Trafford. I cannot see him playing alongside that Cu*t.

  6. gambon

    “A good part of the stadium was to be financed by selling Highbury property. Pretty sure the recession would’ve effected property sales if nothing else.”

    Erm, no it wasnt.

    At no point were there any plans to pay anything in advance, the plan was always to pay £20m pa for 25 years, £20m pa that was to be funded to the detriment of the club.

    What the club shouldve done is either:

    1- Put 2 big stands in at each end of Highbury (think North Bank with an additional tier), financed by selling non dividend equity, diluting the shareholders holdings but increasing the value of their reduced shareholdings, then the club would have a 54000 stadium with zero debt on the club.

    2- Build the Emirates via the same route, with the main shareholders (Dein, |Fiszman, Carr, Bracewell Smith) selling equity to raise the £260m required. Again, the net result wouldve been a 60000 money making machine without the debt that has been put onto the club.

    The shareholders wealth wouldnt have been effected as the club value would rise, but Arsenal would be in a completely different position, and this is what a club that wanted to win things would do.

    For example lets say the shareholders had 90% of the club, worth £500m, and they sold 50% of this equity for £250m, enough to build the stadium, their 45% would be worth a lot more than £250m once the stadium is built as it would deliver £50m extra per year, and be a £250m asset.

  7. Mayank

    “what we did was the best way to exploit the fans and make themselves much more wealthy.”

    Arsenal fans would be paying at least as much as Spurs fans if we stayed at Highbury. Just that fewer would get in. If the supply/demand was more skewered than it is now they’d have more reason to charge more.

  8. Nasri's Mouth


    I may be wrong, but I think the 50% sell on clause is actually 50% of any profit Barca make if they sell him. So if they sell him for £10m more than they paid us, we get £5m

    At present, I can’t imagine Fabregas going for much more than we sold him for

  9. Nasri's Mouth


    If the recession hadn’t hit property values, then Arsenal would have made more money from the Highbury redevelopment. Just because it wouldn’t have been used to pay off the actual stadium debt doesn’t mean we wouldn’t have had that money…

  10. Mayank

    “Erm, no it wasnt.

    At no point were there any plans to pay anything in advance, the plan was always to pay £20m pa for 25 years, £20m pa that was to be funded to the detriment of the club.”

    How does it matter where the money went.

    If without the recession we’d have made more money it goes to the club anyway. Whether on loan repayments or player purchases.

    To say that the recession had no effect on a club trying to sustain itself while building a new stadium is being very revisionist and stubborn.

  11. gooner87

    You may be right

    But I was under the impression that as Barca refused to pay over £30m for him ( as sandra promised they wouldnt), and we sold him for half his market value at that time, we negotiated the deal with them to say – either he retires with you or he comes back to us if it doesnt work out. 50% of next sale makes it totally nonviable for them to sell.

    I can’t see them selling him

  12. Mayank

    “The shareholders wealth wouldn’t have been effected as the club value would rise,”

    Why do you think they’d put in so much effort and not have any positive effect on their assets. Arsenal shareholders don’t even take dividends, why would they be willing to dilute their share value in relation to the club?

  13. Raz

    “I maintain there were many options we couldve explored, what we did was the best way to exploit the fans and make themselves much more wealthy.”

    I don’t see how people can disagree with this?

  14. Nasri's Mouth


    I’ve yet to see anything that suggests we could have developed Highbury in a way that would generate anything like the amount the Emirates generates…

  15. Dev_Gooner

    Still Raz, the ID of the club is ruined isn’t it? Imagine if Kroenke woke up today morning and saw a fortune teller who told him if Arsenal played in black and white instead he would make a fortune. He decides to force that change upon us. how would you feel. I’d be outraged!

    Nothing we can do regarding the finances of the stadium. As mentioned by me earlier and many above the atmosphere will only improve if the team improves. Remember the roar when Henry scored against Leeds or Arshavins winner against Barca? Fans are the twelfth man in the stadium. Their performance relies on the performance of the 11 men playing on the field. Everytime Gervinho or someone shit starts warming up there is a noticeable moan and groan. Would it be the same if someone top quality was warming up. Fans would actually look forward to that change and it builds up the atmosphere. Same goes with the entire match. Hardcore/diehard fans wouldnt mind paying the highest prices known to mankind to see a team of star studded indivduals who ultimately represent the club at the highest level grabbing the highest prises on earth. why would you pay top dollar and cheer for a average dross and disappointing performance when you know its not value for money.

    One thing is clear to everyone this summer is that Money is there to be spent and that the club do not actually need to sell the stars to balance off the books. So if the money isn’t spent and the team doesnt improve or compete for silverware, us fans have the upper hand to demand answers and hold those accountable for the failure of the team. So far the BoD and Wenger have hidden behind the financial constraint excuses and we have had to reluctantly accept that. but not anymore.

  16. Arsene's Nurse

    I think our new badge should have been completely redesigned – we should have dropped the cannon nonsense and gone with something like a football with a bird standing a top of it. Anyone who disagrees with me is living in the past.

    Our “crest” is mickey mouse badge, it signifies nothing and is a typical re-badge performed by some marketing company who have collectively never watched a game of football in their lives. It’s embarrassing. Doubly so when our board accepted it.

    Tradition is massively important in football, that’s why if you go to the Emirates you’ll see lots of artwork from our past. Tradition gives you identity, to ignore it is to ignore what you and the club stand for and to dismiss the achievements of the past, all of which bind to become the club you love.

    The badge did need a bit of an update, but it’s now oversimplified, meaningless pap. Fans are way better at designing than marketing companies and sports clothing manufacturers. Just look at the shocking shite that gets passed off as our kit these days and compare it with the smashing looking kit from that lad where the cannon is a prominent part of the design.

  17. mystic

    I said yesterday that Fabregas is probably a Wenger type buy – let Barca have Vermaelen / write off the money that Barca owe / discount the sell on see and lo and behold he can likely get for next to no outlay. Might even try and include Villa somewhere in the deal.

    Unfortunately chances are that Cesc is off to Utd (Wenger will get money and maintain that in not allowing any any star players to leave it proves Arsenal are no longer a ‘selling club’) / Villa will go to Spurs and Song will be back at the Emirates!!

    In other words the usual mismanagement.

  18. Santos

    Stadium in Highbury, North London; they dropped “Woolwich” from their name the following year.[7] Arsenal only finished in fifth place in 1919, but were
    nevertheless elected to rejoin the First Division at
    the expense of local rivals Tottenham Hotspur, by reportedly dubious means.

    A line I stole from wikipedia. Even the grandparents of the spuds have been bitter. In our shadows forever

  19. kc

    Moyes is looking to make at least one landmark signing before the season, and Cesc seems to be the #1 target. When asked about Arsenals first refusal rights on Cesc Moyes said that’s not something they’re worried about. Really?! What have we become? Why put this term in the contract if you didn’t want the player back? Was it all a show? Seriously if we pass on Cesc and he goes to United I’m done with footy for a while.

  20. Oh Theo Theo!

    And a lot of the sentiment on tradition here is total bollocks – we change one of our strips every year. Sometimes both. Surely that sullies your sense of tradition?

    “We don’t want tradition. We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker’s dam is the history we make today.”
    Henry Ford

    Live in the past if you want to…

  21. Nasri's Mouth

    Mystic: Unfortunately chances are that Cesc is off to Utd

    Chances are Cesc will stay at Barca

  22. Raz


    Your tone suggest people think we shouldn’t have moved?

    I am glad we have a new stadium. I just question a lot of the motives of how it was achieved, funded, and the problems we’ve had since.

  23. Bennydevito


    Thank goodness for the sell on Clause and good on Gooner87 for putting up that telegraph link. I would be absolutely outraged if our board allows Fabregas to go there even moreso than the whole Rvp debacle and like somebody else said we should riot if it happens or just bitterly complain on here!

  24. MadeToLoveMagic

    Keyser, is that really true? Do you and gambon actually know eachother?? That would be funny as hell if true, the idea of anyone who posts on here meeting in the real world is surreal.
    Stoke newington eh? Posh. I live on Clapton pond, the middle bit, with the ducks.

  25. Nasri's Mouth


    Who knows what’s going on behind the scenes. The thing with all these transfer stories is that almost all of them wont happen, and a lot never stand a chance of happening.
    How many clubs was Falcao going to join? How many has Cavani been linked to? Wasn’t Lewandowski joining Utd?
    I can see players leaving Barca, but IMO it’s more likely to be Villa and Thiago than Fabregas

  26. gooner87


    As explained earlier. If united put in a £25m bid, we match it and get half of it back due to the 50% sell on clause. In real terms, we can get fabregas for £12.5m if barca are willing to enter negotiations with united for £25m

    BUT because of these clauses, Barca just won’t see Fabregas, its nonviable for them. Unless he went to Monaco for an enormous fee, ie upwards of £60m

  27. Raz

    “Yes I see Ramsey having a solid future at Arsenal, one where he is back up to our better midfielders.”

    Haha, not sure if tat was meant to sound funny but it did!

  28. Vaive

    Just on Thiago . He is I believe seen by most barca supporters to be the heir apparent to Xavi and not Cesc …
    As for the Emirates build , At the time and during the build I was working for multiplex and we shared offices in London with Sir Robert McAlpine . I was told that any extension/renovation of Highbury was impossible due to the out lining residential dwellings ,with concerns of shadowing by the locals and urbanization by council . So extending Highbury was never an option .

  29. Nasri's Mouth


    I’ve always thought the 50% sell on clause was too good to be true when you look at it.

    Interesting though that everyone thought he’d been undersold yet everyone is talking about him moving back for £25m

  30. Raz

    I am sure if we could have, we would have extended Highbury. Just because the stadium had room for more seating doesn’t mean it was possible to carry the work out…

  31. Arse&Nose©

    I feel £25m is only quoted because Barca are hampered by the clauses and in real terms his value has diminished due to him playing less.

    When we sold him he was our star, when Barca sell him he will just be a squad player.

  32. Josip Skoblar

    Mayank May 29, 2013 12:20:15
    [all football clubs are entertainment businesses. Football is entertainment and clubs make money off of said entertainment.]
    You’re obviously right. I simply meant that the move to the Emirates seems to have been motivated primarily by financial considerations. (One of them was to charge fans more to watch games) I find the Emirates functional, but I much preferred the atmosphere at Highbury.

  33. Nasri's Mouth


    Is he any worse than when he was playing for us though? No. Just as good, quite possibly better, given the players he’s been learning from

  34. Arsenal 1886-2006

    Thomas May 29, 2013 12:50:52
    Arsenal-Man.City in Finland in August?
    I’m a lifelong Gooner from Finland. News are spreading in the Finnish newspapers today that Arsenal will play Man.City in Helsinki on August 10.
    Could it really be true? Thomas the Finn.

    That would be nice for you mate, you sound excited. Be good for you to see some top class players, just a shame they are playing us.

  35. Gregg

    Interesting times for Fabregas. He’s come to his prime years now, he could be regarded as one of the best midfielders of his generation but to achieve that he will need to leave. Barca don’t see him in the Xavi role and Xavi isn’t going anywhere for a while, likewise the same applies for the Spanish national team. I can see him leaving, if not this year then certainly next. Adding Neymar further restricts his playing time, he won’t feature as the ‘false 9 ‘ or whatever you want to call it.

  36. Rhys Jaggar


    Barcelona’s imminent bankruptcy was averted by the massive annual bung they extorted from the Qataris for their shirts/Spanish votes at FIFA.

    Hopefully if the 2022 World Cup is shifted to England, the Qataris will stop paying all their bungs, then Barca might go back to being broke again.

    Still, they’d have to be seriously broke not to be able to pay off their debts by selling Messi to some Qataris/Abu Dhabians/Russkys. He’s probably worth £100m+ even at fire sale prices. Think you’d probably flog the entire squad for £250m+ during administration, so Barca have some serious debts to run up before they can be called broke. (Messi £125m + add ons, Fabregas £25m, Pique £25m, Iniesta £30m, Pedro £15m, Busquets £5m, Valdes £10m, Alves £10m, Xavi £5m seems to make £250m to me).

  37. Vaive

    “Moyes is looking to make at least one landmark signing before the season, and Cesc seems to be the #1 target. When asked about Arsenals first refusal rights on Cesc Moyes said that’s not something they’re worried about. Really?! What have we become? Why put this term in the contract if you didn’t want the player back? Was it all a show? Seriously if we pass on Cesc and he goes to United I’m done with footy for a while.”

    Same , If he does go to Manure .. It’s basically all over for me and football . That’s just something I couldn’t stomach .. Imagine Cesc in a manure kit … F@CK NO

  38. ardentgooner

    What if Cesc wants to go to Utd if he is being sold by Barca. With the buy back clause we cant force him to join us if he doesnt want…

    Just putting it out there 😉

  39. Enough

    There is no decision that Arsenal football club could make that Gambon would be happy with. He’s ‘that guy’. The epitome of what’s wrong with football fans today. At best his views are often pointless. Honestly, I feel sorry for him because if these are really his views, he’ll never find any joy in supporting this great club.

  40. Gregg


    This is Arsenal, we wouldn’t miss a moneymaking opportunity like that. We’d get him back from Barca & sell to Utd in the next transfer window

  41. bayo

    In a couple of weeks Chelsea will sign Jovetic in the same way they got Mata after months of penny pinching. Fabregas will go to Man U because Arsenal prefers the 8 million pounds Grenier.

    I dont think paying the extra 5 million pounds on Jovetic will kill the club. We have wasted over 15 million on players like Santos, Part, Gervinho. Wenger lacks the balls to buy big cause he is afraid to fail

  42. Oh Theo Theo!

    The whole Cesc thing will come down to where he wants to go. An he will want to go where he has best chance to win things.

    So at the moment Arsenal or Manure?

    Make your own mind up. Will his Arsenal DNA come into play. I wouldn’t bet anything on it.

  43. Dennisdamenace

    “Anyway. Enough on backward looking fans.”

    A tad dismissive of the fan base, particularly one that prides itself on it’s traditions.

    Traditions including it’s badge.

    And, since when was Arsenal ever associated with orange!

    A little too much corporate, and not enough football Pedro.

  44. Raz

    @Dennisdamenace that comment,plus the ‘what do football fans know about design?’ are the sort of really arrogant sweeping statements that put me off Le Grove.

  45. SpanishDave

    RVP I think is close to Cesc so he will be making noises to join manure..
    If he is available we must get him back, it would certainly boost morale at the club.
    Wenger will no doubt screw things up.

  46. Raz

    Just seen that Barcelona contract thing again – we did at least manage to get them to waive any inclusion they had in any deals we make for Toral and Bellerin, and have waived their right to first refusal. Smart move Wenger, fair dos.

  47. Pedro

    What do you mean DDM?

    2 paragraphs dedicated to corporate.

    There’s tradition… then there’s preserving something that looks outdated.

    Clubs have to change with the times… that Everton crest was fine. The Arsenal one wasn’t amazing… but it’ll do.

  48. zeus

    Match Fixing in Spain.

    Players, managers and presidents in the First and Second Divisions admit, in recorded statements, the fixing of match results. This is the first part:

    “I went to play against Levante and the coach, in the pre-match team talk, told us: ‘We’re going to play, to jump, to compete and to score. If we score a goal, they will equalise, and if they score a goal against us, we will equalise. If, in the 85th minute, the scores are level, we give up and that’s it’. We both needed a draw. We finished 0-0. In the talk, he told us not to fake it the whole way through the match. It was laughable”, a First Division player told MARCA.

    “I’ve even doubted about whether or not to put a player in the line up, thinking he had been bought. You don’t trust half the squad. But if you take them out and put young players in, they end up accusing you of not wanting to win,” is how a coach, in this instance, explains it.

    “This season in Rayo, there was contact with a player before the game against Mallorca, but the footballer immediately spoke up and his coach closed down the situation. What happened is that Rayo covered it up. I wouldn’t cover it up”, a president of a top Spanish football club said.

  49. Oh Theo Theo!

    And when you look at the logos of all the clubs – they start simple, get a lot more complex and then in the modern, branded, digital, global age they get easily recognisible.

    All the top clubs do it:-

    Bayern: http://logos.wikia.com/wiki/FC_Bayern_M%C3%BCnchen

    Real: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=real+madrid+logo+history&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HBimUfvCL8mx0QXc_oGwCg&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=834

    Why would you want Arsenal to be a stagnant memory of past glories? We need to lead in the internet age, not go back to the fucking 20s…


  50. Dan Ahern

    I think what Everton did was nearly as bad as design by committee. They just took out a checklist of every standard logo procedure these days. It’s sterile, oversimplified, flattened, and boring. They stripped out the personality and changed it for another piece of chunky vector clip art.

    I’m not saying their old badge was great, but the new one is lame, and worse, typical.

    I personally think they did well to admit it needs another effort. You can include fans without entering a “design by committee” situation. You ask their input on what the badge should represent. They are a large part of the brand and you could learn a lot simply talking to them. You don’t need to put the colours to a poll, you know? You can simply better understand what you are designing. Essentially, you use their input as research to inform your designer/team. If nothing else, you have at least made the fans (rightly) feel they are valued as part of the brand.

  51. Dan Ahern

    P.S. I’m all for modernising and redesigns. Sorry, but the old AFC badge with the red and green and blackletter type was horrid. I’m glad they changed it.

    I just think Everton did a poor job with theirs.

  52. Cesc Appeal

    I think the club will know the shit storm they’ll have on their hands if Fabregas ends up at United.

    I’d be more enraged than when RVP left for United. As Cesc has stated his two loves are Barca and Arsenal and his biggest regret in life is not winning a trophy with us as captain.

    As we get first refusal, Gunners fans will know Wenger refused to match the £25 Million.

  53. Nemesis.

    When i said barca were broke i didn’t mean bankcrupt,i was only stating their limited resources to compete in the market.

    Madrid offered 120m for neymar,x3 what barca offered.

  54. Johnty79

    Nemesis they are too small koz and mert…remember no team in history has won the league , fa cup and league cup to my knowledge with a centre back pairing of under an average height of 6”. Prove me wrong.

  55. Johnty79

    I hope cesc does join man utd just to teach wenger a lesson….cesc,nasri and Rvp were sick of playing in the same team as Ramsay, santos, Denison, bentner , diaby and only earning 20-30 k aweek more then them. They must of been sick coming off the pitch knowing your wages were equal….the shit lot should of been on 20-25k and the good 100-150k with the average 50-60k. Sort the wage bill out wenger you fool.

  56. Alex James

    Just a badge! As I said yesterday, our old badge was classy and mirrored the image of the club. To old timers like me, we now have a shabby thing that mirrors the soulless badge the mancs have sported for years. Clearly Everton fans feel the sameway about theirs.

  57. Cesc Appeal


    Yeah that is the problem.

    Ramsey’s been on £50 000 forever having done nothing, now is on £60 000 a week again without doing a whole lot, though his effort has impressed me the last couple of months.

    He should have been on 20k a week, where Fabregas should have been on 150k and RVP the same, and Nasri etc etc

    A la Bayern Munich


    Good old commen sense will endure if or when Cesc decides to leave Barca.A player makes his decesion on his future,and i don’t see Cesc tying his horse to our wagon again anytime soon.In one hand you have sentiment and in the other you have progression,a word Arsene says out loud in HIS mind only.If Cesc goes to United don’t blame him ,blame 4th place is a trophy.

  59. Nasri's Mouth


    Madrid offered 120m for neymar,x3 what barca offered.

    Do you really believe that ?

    Why on earth would RM offer £120m for him ? Come on, think about it.

  60. gooner87

    Cesc appeal

    I really really hope IG read your post. I hope he read it and does something about it

  61. Nasri's Mouth

    Johnty79: I hope cesc does join man utd just to teach wenger a lesson

    This is the bizarre mentality that some people have

    Do they want Fabregas, one of the top 5 players we’ve had at this club in the last 10 years to come back to make us better ?

    No, they’d rather he went to another team just to piss off our manager.

    Same mentality that wanted us to finish out of the top 4 just to make Wenger look stupid.

    Priorities so out of whack…

  62. Nemesis.


    i was suprised when i saw it, florentino perez said he would have cost them 150m.

    Madrid is THE money making club in football,merchandizing and shirt sales will cover.

    Also read that barca gave him 100% image rights.

  63. Johnny5


    It’s not often you and i agree but your spot on with that. I’d love cesc to come back and smash it. I’d never want him to go united to ‘teach wenger a lesson’. Wengers a pensioner nearly his learning days are done it’ll be us fans that feel the effect if he goes there and smashes in goals against us. That would be soul destroying it really would.

  64. Keyser

    Lol that wasn’t the problem at all, no-one was saying give Nasri 150k a week, people were saying he’d had a half decent season, then in January Citeh were supposedly offering him 160-70k a week and people felt his form turned to shit.

    Johnty79’s hilarious, he’s actually got people agreeing with him.

  65. Nemesis.


    i don’t know about that,but i’m talking about drilling both of them.
    Both are ball playing defenders with speed, don’t you think the highline(also pressing from front)would help ?

  66. Keyser

    On Mertesacker he’s a decent defender, give him a chance, ie set the team up to mask his weakness and he’s an experienced, calm influence, but that’s all he can give, as soon as the team is stretched, as soon as play breaks down he struggles to influence anything and Koscielny/Vermaelen are left trying to compensate, it’s not as bad as Arteta who becomes completely irrelevant, but makes it twice as bad when both play together.

    Wenger could go to Vermaelen and Koscielny next year if we find extra height in midfield to deal with the first ball, Giroud helps massively on set-pieces defensively but without Mertesacker it’s not quite enough.


    Players are leaving us and winning.Who are we to force a person to stay at a job where winning is optional.Come play for us and we guarantee the best we can offer you is a knock out stage CL football.

    I would say to myself,if you didn’t do it for Robin you sure as hell wont do it for me.

  68. JJ

    @Pedro – Half a good seasong for Ramsey is stretching it. He played crap for months, had about 3 good games and then went back to crap.

    If that is our guage, we might as well put Diaby into the nominations.

  69. Dan Ahern

    Does anybody know the actual terms of Fabregas’s contract? Everything I find is always a “reported” right of first refusal, or “understood” to be.
    (Typical media these days, I guess. Why do journalism when sensationalism sells just fine? Sigh.)

  70. Nemesis.


    i understand,but were a team that dominates possession,but when we do that that with merte i’m always watching from behind my seat, bac might leave which may give us a chance to sign a taller attacking right back and a dm.

  71. JJ

    I do agree that Kos was a half season hero. When you cut out his red cards, own goals and monumental blunders (Birmingham)… he is actually quite a good defender.

  72. Nemesis.


    i don’t understand your grouse with arteta,fine he slows play down,but he’s not a dm,blame arsene for that.

    Personally i feel pairing him with a dm will help the team.

  73. Cesc Appeal


    You’re just arguing for the sake of it again.

    Guys like Djourou, Ramsey, Denilson, Bendtner…they did nothing, were never key components of the side like Fabregas, RVP etc.

    They should all have been on 20-25k a week.

    Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie etc should have been on top wages, just like Bayern do it.

    How you can argue otherwise is baffling….in fact, what are you arguing exactly? That our wage structure is right? Fair? Just? Isn’t the cause of players leaving? Or at least a massive contributing factor? That a guy like Djourou getting 55k a week is justified? Or Squillaci getting 50k a week? Or Bendtner on 52k a week? Or Denilson on 50k a week? Or Santos? Or Diaby on 60k a week?

    What is your point exactly?

  74. Song Bilong

    Mertesacker is actually much better than most people give him credit for.
    he may be slow and may have the turning circle of the titanic but he more than makes up for it with his positioning nd reading of the game.. hence he rearly gets caught 1 v 1.
    Its always going to be one of verm/kos next to him and in my opinion him nd koscielny are the better pairing..
    vermaelen lacks the defensive and positional awareness of koscielny and mert.
    He gets dragged out of position too easily and loses his man too often.


    It took a dud like mark hughes only three games to realise this

    and teams have been exploiting it ever since. He made up for it earlier in his arsenal career with sum excellent goals and much needed aggression but coupled with his numerous errors recently he just had to be sacrificed for the good of the team

    I hope he stays though.. rafa has successfully turned the quite similar david luiz into a DM maybe we can try this next season with TV5

  75. Dan Ahern


    a) I believe you answered your own question: he’s accomplished what he set out to. Perhaps now he’ll want to achieve what he wasn’t able to in his previous spell?

    b) All the fuss is that he’s one of the best players ever to play for AFC, and one of the best players around, period.

  76. Harry Redknapp

    problem is david luiz is a liabilty defending but a classy player with the ball. tv5 is not on that level.

  77. Keyser

    CA – Don’t get upset, think it through, at what point should Nasri have been on 100-150k a week ? Should he ever have been on it.

    You’re trying to re-write history, Van Persie would’ve got a fat new contract, Fabregas was already on one and Nasri would’ve got what Walcott’s on now.

    Then the other players don’t matter as much and you can streamline the rest of it, what happened, Nasri left for 160-70k a week, Fabregas moved to his boyhood club and regardless of what you think about him foregoing his bonus, he’s earning shitloads, while Van Persie got 200k a week and a team already loaded with players for him.

    What’s your point ? and can you stop with this Bayern stuff, or maybe you need to go look at why Dortmund had Lewandowski on 20k a week, or sold Goetze just before they were about to play a Champions League final, to the team they were playing the final against.

  78. Nemesis.

    Song bilong

    why hasn’t anyone spoken about midfield cover ,verm is an aggressive defender i aggree,don’t you think his flaws will be covered by a real dm ?


    Are players that desperate to play in the EPL,that they would play for a team that celebrates 4th spot,and knockiing Spurs into…….. no-hope-ah-league.

  80. Nasri's Mouth

    @Cesc Appeal

    Wasn’t Fabregas on about £110k before he left us ?

    When exactly would you have given Nasri £150k/wk ? Because he only really had half a season when he was worth anything like that. He’s certainly not been worth it since then

    As for RvP, we just don’t know what he was offered, or would have been offered had there not been a breakdown between the 2 parties

  81. salparadisenyc

    Agree with Arse 1886,
    Why would Cesc take steps backwards to re-join Arsenal?

    Yes he’s a cog in the machine that is Barcelona, champions of Spain.
    But he’s playing with his mates from the Spanish national side, the two times european champions and the defending WC champions. I don’t see him coming back without completely fulfilling his goals at Barca. He’d rather compete against the best for a starting position than captain an Arsenal side which cannot compete with Barcelona on a regular basis. If theres no urgency from Arsenal to get competitive with Europe’s elite whats the point? It would take a massive splash into the market to convince him otherwise.

    RVP and Cesc, 2010-11, 2011-12 captains of Arsenal. EPL champion, La Liga champion 2012-13 as Arsenal skinned into playoff spot for qualification to Europe…. again.

  82. Arsenal 1886-2006


    Why come back? he can go and become a successful player at any top club and continue winning silverware.
    His agent will more than likely make the decision for him anyway.

  83. NEEG

    Gooner 87

    I think you will find IG (or a member of his team) definately read Le Grove. Will this close season be the time he reacts to the requirements to take the club a stage further remains to be seen.

    He was interviewed for his position by Wenger and I believe will eventually become Wengers Nemesis.

    Wenger is saddened to see the departure from the club many of his ‘boys’ who will never make the grade but this year he appears to have been overuled – a promising sign but not too far in the right direction unless we see the overpaid dross removed so they no longer are a drain on the club.

    Cesc is a magical player but unfortunately his thought plain is so far ahead of our current team he would be reduced to tears on the pitch playing alongside the likes of Ramsey etc.

    Would he return? I have my doubts however if promises were made and more importantly kept then there is always a chance.

  84. Keyser

    Nemesis – We dominate possession in a sterile way like Wenger says, we struggle to break though the lines and teams are happy to let us play it around the back four, 2 years ago both Wilshere and Fabregas could turn and play through pressure connecting defence to attack, as could Nasri or even Van Persie if he dropped deeper.

    I have no problem with Arteta really, I’m just stating the truth, he’s 32 his legs are going, unless we compensate for that, which means other players working even harder, then it’s a pretty big weakness to exploit, in fairness he like Mertesacker is there for his experience and his guile, but if he can’t even provide that he becomes a non-entity, he’s starting to misplace balls and panic under pressure he seems to know he can’t quite cope, and with us compensating or Mertesacker’s lack of pace already, ther esult is exponential.

    It doesn’t really matter where Arteta plays, he isn’t going to be asked to do anything wildly different, in comparison to Rosicky, Rosicky can still turn on the pace a bit, or press like he used to for 50 odd minutes before looking knackered.

  85. Song Bilong


    I agree.. getting a DM should be a priority this summer..
    An Arteta Ramsey pairing just isnt title challenging material.
    I’d Like to know what Pedro thinks of our chances of getting a player like Fellaini, but i guess a Capoue or Gonalons should do just fine

  86. Nemesis.


    no one said per was a bad defender,i’m just asking if it’s possible we could build a more technical defensive unit with koscielny and tom.

  87. Cesc Appeal


    I’m not going to argue with you.

    The wage structure is a shambles, and one of the root causes of us failing to compete and it’s due to Wenger. What do we have to show for our £145 Million annual wages really? What stars considering we’re marginally behind United’s wage bill now?

    If you don’t think that, you’re an idiot and not worth the effort.

  88. Nemesis.


    then jack should take the cm role,i want to see him dominate the midfield like he did against barca.

    Arsene really has to involve pressing in our play.

  89. NEEG

    Arsenal 1886- 2006

    Ha Ha – you could be right.

    I do believe that there are ‘things’ going on at the moment and the CEO is doing his job by heaping the pressure on our under-performing manager. It is now when he is commenting on French TV that he is at his worst – his ego so big that Edmund Hilary would not be able to climb it.
    Pedros posts recently have shown optimism towards change – mainly since the soiree at the Grove a few weeks ago. I believe he is right to be optimistic – if not we will all be slashing our wrists at the end of next season.

  90. Dan Ahern

    I agree, it’s a pretty slim chance and I can’t really see it happening. However, it’s not as if there’s no reason he’d return. I mean, why did he choose Barcelona when Real Madrid were trying to buy him? Just like Barca, he has an emotional/personal connection to Arsenal. Doesn’t mean he’ll ever return, but it is a reason.

  91. Keyser

    CA – Our wagebill in 2010 was 124 million, 30+ million less than United, how’s that for a starting point ? fucking hell mate can’t you for once just think it through.

    124 million, Nasri would’ve got a new contract, were you sitting there thinking we should be put Nasri on 150k a week ? Or we should match Citeh ? Van Persie would’ve got a new contract, Fabregas was already on a increasing gradient.

    What happened ?

  92. Mask of Zorro

    @Nasri’s when has Wenger ever done what the fans wanted? the whole world could want fabrigas to come back, if Wenger doesn’t want it not gonna happen! so if I want him to go manure to teach Wenger a lesson, he Wenger, could make sure he comes back to teach me a lesson, right?

  93. Dan Ahern

    Keyser: “…maybe you need to go look at why Dortmund … sold Goetze just before they were about to play a Champions League final, to the team they were playing the final against.”

    Believe Bayern activated Goetze’s buyout clause? That is not nearly the same as Dortmund selling him.

  94. Arsenal 1886-2006


    The other problem is that if he did return and failed to perform than the abuse he would get will be fierce.
    I cannot think of a player off the top of my head that has returned successfully.

  95. Keyser

    Dan Ahern – Mate, then you’d need to look at why there was one to begin with, or why the player chose to activate it at that point. You’d have got people blaming the club or it regardless if it was us.

    Either way it’s silly to draw comparison’s between us and Bayern without considering everything else.

  96. SUGA3

    Dennisdamenace May 29, 2013 15:18:29

    “Anyway. Enough on backward looking fans.”

    A tad dismissive of the fan base, particularly one that prides itself on it’s traditions.

    Traditions including it’s badge.

    And, since when was Arsenal ever associated with orange!

    A little too much corporate, and not enough football Pedro.


    spot on, I actually thought exactly the same thing when I read this part of today’s blog…

    quoting Johnny Rotten, that ‘plastic fucking cannon made in Italy’ is even pointing in the wrong direction, nothing to do with progress, everything to do with copyrights!

  97. Dan Ahern

    1886-2006 — How about Henry? It was a loan, but he was pretty well received!
    Well, minus us all bitching about how cheap Wenger was 😉

  98. Arsenal 1886-2006


    I see us as a bit like Apple. For years the O/S was the dogs Bolloc*s, stable and reliable, now it is more designed around online social media and mobile devices (iPhone, iPad and the like), where the big money is.
    The older systems pre Lion were so much better and reliable, similar to us pre emirates.

    It is more about money than quality these days.

  99. Arsenal 1886-2006


    Henry reportedly said: “I know we can have a go about the pictures of them celebrating finishing fourth, but you have to understand that, for any Arsenal player, when you really feel the shirt and really play for the club, putting Tottenham out of the top four [matters] – and I really do hope that’s what they were celebrating.

    “If you are an Arsenal man through and through – that is like winning something.

    “But, and I said it when we did it to [Tottenham] in 2006, for me that’s the only thing we could celebrate.”

    Henry accepts that, local rivalry aside, it was another season of relative failure at the Emirates.

    He added: “Yes, they finished in the top four. But there is only one champion: Manchester United. I’m a competitor, so there is only one thing I can remember from 2013 – and that is that United won the league.

    “For me, as a fan and as a player at Arsenal, we should be in the top four as normal – but [instead] it saved our season.”

  100. Dan Ahern

    According to goal.com Barca are looking to loan out Deulofeu. I’d say we should offer to take him on, but they’d probably try to stuff Song in the package as well.

  101. TomNW5

    Top day on Le Grove.
    Two pages of lively discussion. Not a single insult.
    Even gambon kept it civilized, despite getting well corrected.

    Well played.

  102. Dan Ahern

    Oh, I know! Poldi!

    He left Koln for Bayern and came back after a few seasons. I’m pretty sure they still loved him. They even had this site where you could chip in a couple euros to help Koln mitigate his transfer fee.