Tying young Arsenal players down is good / How we’ve done it? Well…. read on

by & filed under News Review.

Gooooood morning world. Today is a good day. Arsenal tied down their core of English players to long term deals. Well, 5 of them at least.

Now, first thing’s first. Tying young players down to long term contracts is a good thing. You never know what’s going to happen with upstarts. They could explode onto an upward curve and become the next Cesc Fabregas. They could meander along and end up like Alex Song, incredibly landing a move to Barcelona. Or they could join the ‘not good enough’ pile like Senderos, Merida and Aliadiere.

Being a good player when you’re young does not mean you’ll be a good player when you’re older.

So these are my thoughts on this situation. If you disagree, tell me why, but don’t cloud your judgement because these players are British and extremely likeable. Don’t steam in with ‘all you do is moan’ because plenty of things we moan about at the start come to fruition. Like, say, having British players… which, as someone pointed out was a xenophobic chat a year ago, now Arsene is preaching it, it’s genius

He’s looking at passports now eh?

(and as someone said on Twitter yesterday, on cold nights in Bradford, we’ll be much bett… ahh… right).

Long term BIG deals

Players rarely sign on for less money. In fact, they never do if they’re Premiership players. Word on the street is Jack has taken £85k p/w, Rambo £60k, Chambo and Gibbs £52k p/w with Jenkinson on the £30k p/w.

That’s £15million a year we’ve just spent on new deals (which counts as investment in the squad for loan stipulation purposes).

Now, again, put aside your love for English media hype. Who has delivered anything of note out of those players? None of them. Not even Jack Wilshere if you’re brutal. I’d say, bar the superstar of the pack, they’re all being paid well above their stations here.

Jack Wilshere for me is a slightly different story. He sits in the English Cesc role for me. He’s clearly got bundles of raw talent. He’ll make it. At worst, he’ll be a very,very good England player. At best, well, who knows where his talent could take him. Essentially, you’re paying him on future appearances because you can be almost certain he’ll deliver them.

Kieran Gibbs has looked pretty good this season. His crossing has been excellent and in the main, he’s been a bit of a shining light in defence when he’s managed to string a set of games together. However, his fitness is questionable and he’s half a season into his break through season. Since 2007, he’s never managed more than 20 games a year. For me, that’s a worry. He has problems fitness wise, and we’ve just tied him down to a long term deal. This could work out. Clichy had the same issues, but surely you’ve got to tie something into that deal around performance? Otherwise haven’t we just opened ourselves up to another Diaby situation?

Jenkinson. Well, again, he’s looked solid in parts this season. Is he the answer long term to our right back position? I still can’t quite make up my mind. One minute he’s dazzling, the next he’s falling over himself against Swansea. Both players have potential, both are part of a terrible defence. £30k a week isn’t going to kill us as a club, but what rankles me is that as soon as a player has 10 good games we’re slapping a new deal on the table. No work goes into more money when you’re at the lower levels at Arsenal.

Alex Chamberlain is a player who I took a stinging amount of abuse over when  I said he wasn’t the answer to our problems two years ago. Since his arrival, he’s offered nothing more than a good performance against Milan. Has he got potential? Absolutely. Is he delivering? No. He is anonymous in most games. Compare his impact to that of Sterling at Liverpool and you’ll see what I mean. He’s been the same for two years. He started 15 games last year and he’s started 8 this year. His goals and assists aren’t impressive nor has his contribution been. That’s not to say it won’t be going forward. That’s just to say… how the hell have we sanctioned a massive pay rise off the back of that?

Aaron Ramsey. Now here’s a player who could spark a debate on any North London street corner. I like him. I think he gets a rough ride from the crowd… but generally in the main, it’s totally deserved. He’s not really improved since he came back from injury, if anything, he’s regressed. He holds onto the ball too long, he runs into the back of players, he still has the youthful ignorance with his passing and he’s not decisive. He has something though, somewhere within him to become a good player. Much in the same way Senderos did. Now, arguably, he’s been our worst performer consistently over the past two seasons (of the regular starters). Now, I’m not saying I’d want to see the back of him, but what I am saying is I’d rather him not be given at £3million a year contract. What does that say about us as a club? We’ve just given an under performer a massive pay hike. We’ve rewarded mediocrity with a massive deal. What does this say to players underneath him? Because please don’t tell me professional footballers watch him and see something else.

Now we can all debate the merits of the above players until we’re red white and away kit blue in the face. That’s what we do, we’re football fans. My position on it is this… if you pay the average players massive money on long term deals, you can’t afford to pay the best players the best money when the average players make the leap. Our wage bill last year was nearly on par with City’s from the year before. We only have one person at the club on plus £100k… the manager. What does that tell you about our wage structure? We give ourselves no wiggle room when it comes to great players because Wenger is obsessed with buying love, where a manager like Ferguson puts people on aspirational wages. If you want to make it, work for it, prove yourself over a season or two, then we’ll talk big money.

The way Arsenal work is like a Government agency. You get paid according to length of duty. It’s not based on merits really. You’re just put up to a certain bracket when the time is right… and we all know how efficient the public sector are.

I also think it’s worth noting that we’ve been here before. I remember when Djourou, Nik Bendtner, Denilson and Carlos Vela were all young and all loaded with potential. We still have all of them!

Now, I think there’s a slight difference with foreign players and English players. If you play your cards right with young English players, you tend to have more loyalty. The English are ignorant lazy creatures when it comes to certain things. We have our friends in a certain place, so the thought of moving somewhere else isn’t appealing. We don’t do ‘other languages’ because it’s hard work. Also, we like playing football, regardless of cash, unless we’re called Wayne Bridge. If these players weren’t being played, they look like the sort of characters who’d go elsewhere.

So, to sum up, I’m pleased we’ve signed a group of players with bag loads of potential to long term deals. I’m pleased we have an English spine to the team. My main worry out of all this is we haven’t learned lessons of the past 5 years. We’re still trying to buy love at the beginning of players career journey’s, forgetting that you skint yourself out doing that, forcing the end of the journey to be played out at more wage efficient clubs. I say wage efficient, because the simple fact is you can have elite player salaries at a club that can afford a £160million wage bill. It just depends how you want to  structure things.

A case study for this is Theo Walcott. He wants £100k a week, because he’s used to getting payrises for doing very little. The baseline for his salary has always been set higher than his ability. How can we give him stick for wanting £100k a week when Ramsey just managed to bag £60k a week? Big salaries for players starting out stores up problems for the future. We’ve seen that played out enough times over the past few seasons.

Wenger hasn’t changed. This is a massive gamble for him. Let’s see how it pans out, I pray it’s for the good, otherwise that potentially iconic picture above could look like the one below.

 

P.S. Champions League draw. What are the odds it’s NOT Barcelona? Low I’d imagine. Also, the West Ham game has been cancelled. Good times.


285 Responses to “Tying young Arsenal players down is good / How we’ve done it? Well…. read on”

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  1. dennisdamenace

    gambonDecember 20, 2012 08:32:54
    LeGrove is dwindling like Arsenal FC is dwindling.
    Is it just me or are there less and less posts these days, new posts going up much later than they used to.
    Arsenal FC is dead.

    Gambon – Most of us who are long-termers are just physically and mentally drained by this fucking car crash of a club, and as such we are slowly losing our passion as we’re having the enjoyment of being a Gooner sucked out of us by fucking excuse makers and money men.

  2. gambon

    “He sits in the English Cesc role for me”

    I like Jack, but this is way off, just way way way off.

    At equivalent ages Cesc got 13 goals & 23 assists. He was an absolute beast of a player at 20/21. Jack is all potential. He does good shimmies, makes good runs through the middle, but as things stand he doesnt score, he doesnt assist, and he is far from what Cesc used to give us.

  3. Leedsgunner

    Mixed response to players being tied down… wasn’t Oxo and Jenkinson given improved contracts very recently? Talk about killing the motivation to improve… but I guess the clubs trying to learn from its past mistakes…

    Although if we continue to win “nowt” it won’t matter what a player’s passports says — they won’t want to stay… they look at players like RvP who was AFC through and through and they suddenly realise they won’t be young forever and that they want to win things.

    No problems with 4 out of 5 that extended their contracts yesterday — good prospects — all except Ramsey… if it was Fergie he would have been let go — nevermind the contract being renewed?!?

  4. Nasri's Mouth

    Difference between re-signing these guys and Bendtner, Denilson etc. is that because of their ‘britishness’ moving them on at high (ish) wages would be easier. There’ll always be a Liverpool to take them in.

    I’d also argue that with the huge increase in TV revenue coming in these wages (which are only speculation anyway) aren’t actually that high when compared to those of Denilson, Bendtner etc.

    And yes, there is always the argument over paying out for potential, but had we re-signed an injured RvP or a very inconsistent Walcott a year earlier we might be in a much better position than we are now. There is a bit of a ‘damned if you do, damned if you dont’ situation. Hopefully the contracts are also influenced by what the coaches see in training as well as what they see on the pitch

  5. gambon

    Pedro

    For me Jack should be Cazorlas backup in the main, as I think they will be similar players.

    I couldnt agree more with Gary Nevilles analysis the other day. We need a revamped midfield & forward line. At the moment we just dont have the quality.

    I like Jack & Ox, I dont like the other 3 (used to be a big Gibbs fan). The fact is Wenger has just kicked off another youth project, just 18 months after admitting failure on the first one.

    I would imagine the payrise given for these 5 will be similar to what it would take to sign Cavani & keep Sagna.

    I would have signed Cavani, extended Sagna, and waited til the end of the season to decide what to do with the rest (Ramsey can fuck off as far as im concerned).

    What this has told us is that nothings gonna change.

    Wengers time at Arsenal can be defined by 4 ideas:

    – Project big athletic technical players 1996-2005 (7 trophies)
    – Project foreign youth 2005-2011 (0 trophies)
    – Project average experienced players 2011-2012 (0 trophies)
    – Project British youth (Just began this last few weeks)

    Now we have extra revenues coming in the club dont even care about CL football anymore. We are about to step aside and let Spurs/Everton/Liverpool through.

  6. AJ

    Considering the amount of stick Gervinhno gets on here, it can be said that Ramsey is getting away with it.
    However shit he plays, people think he will come good someday, he tries, he is only 21, he is still depressed because he lost Welsh captaincy(lol at this one) etc.

  7. gambon

    “Hopefully the contracts are also influenced by what the coaches see in training as well as what they see on the pitch”

    Dont know why you use the plural in coaches….Wenger is the dictator here.

    Is this the same coach that thought Giroud could replace RVP, that though Gervinho could replace Nasri, that thought Gervinho was even a footballer, that thought Park was a centre forward, that thought Chamakh could replace Adebayor, that thought Ramsey could replace Cesc, that thought Diaby could stay fit, that thought Denilson was world class for 4 years, that thought Santos could defend, that thought Squillaci could defend, that thought Djourou could defend, that played Almunia for 3 years & Fabianski for 1????

    You want this guy making decisions on players?

  8. Marrrfooo

    Pedro,

    I can’t really agree with that much of what you’re saying.

    I agree we’re not the most practical when it comes to contract at the moment. Comparing the players we’ve just signed up to the likes of Denilson/Djourou/Bendtner is, to my mind, a little foolish. I appreciate and accept the concerns that being good in youth doesn’t mean a steady rise in quality for eternity. That said, Gibbs and Jenkinson have done well when they’ve played and consistently. You brought up Jenks slipping vs. Swansea – what else has he done wrong for a 20 year old right back? He almost gave Wenger a selection problem when Bac got git again FFS! He runs the flanks more than any full back – he ran a full 120 mins in the League Cup and still kept going. He’s not a world beater by any stretch yet – but you’re ignoring the values of the players. And don’t praise Fergie too much – there are players at Utd on high contracts for not a lot – your love-in boy Nani being one of them – he offers so very little than pace and stepovers and I think he’s on a similar wage to Wilshere’s new deal. I know which I’d rather have.

    What I would ask is – I hear the contracts are on sliding scales according to the Telegraph – so is the £80k wage for Wilshere actually that, or is it a stepped increase over the years? This would be a relevant and important point to confirm if possible?

    Ramsey is the most questionable. He’s been playing poorly. But he’s playing in a stupid position in midfield and he was playing game in game out with decent quality just 2 years ago in his natural role – so it wasn’t just form/fluke that he was performing. But he’s got a rough patch on. A more battling midfield partner might help him not have to get mugged in the 50/50s as much as he does. His wayward passing phases are something that do need looking at and he’s not guaranteed to make it – none of them are really.

    You complained that we hadn’t done anything with Walcott’s contract and he might go on a free, but prior to this season he hadn’t returned all that much. But then we do something about these boy’s contracts and it’s a big ol’ question mark all of a sudden There’s a bit too much kettle/pot/black in this one for me old boy. These contracts don’t settle all the wrongs but I’m pleased we’ve got them as I think 4 of those 5 could well be future England starters for me – when have we had that many English players competing for the national side? It’s a sign of improving quality at least with English players – and they are more likely to be settled here – that’s just a fact of being born in the country for me – I can’t blame foreign players getting their heads turned…

    Many of your points are salient for me. I just think you’re viewing things a little skewed. But then again, it’s personal perspective I suppose.

  9. gambon

    AJ

    Agree on Ramsey.

    He was overrated before the injury, and has been shit since.

    I dont care if you need more composure, I dont care if you had your leg broken, I dont care if you lost the Welsh captaincy.

    I care how good our Midfielders are and right now we are weak. We need a DM, a Diaby replacement & a Ramsey replacement.

  10. Kurt F

    The question is, at what other club would Ramsey get 60k a week ? The answer is of course: at no other club. If he’d been putting in the kind of performances that meant other clubs were prepared to pay him that, then that’s the time to tie him down to a new high paying contract. As it stands, he’s just been richly rewarded for playing badly, so how is that going to inspire him to play any better?

    Only two of the players signed yesterday would attract the attention of any other ‘top four’ club. The other 3 certainly wouldn’t get those kind of salaries anywhere but here – so now no top clubs want them and no lesser clubs can afford to pay them what they’re getting here -meaning we’re either stuck with them of will have to sell them for a reduced transfer fee.

    It’s this recurring dreadful financial mismanagement which means we can’t afford to pay top quality players top quality wages, and it shows Wenger has learned nothing from the mistakes of the past.

    And that’s the most frustrating thing about Arsenal under Wenger – it’s the same mistakes over and over again. If we were at least trying new stuff and failing then it would be easier to take, but we all know we’re going to be out of the cups by Feb and our only highlight for the rest of the season is whether we’ll get fourth or not – bloody fourth!

  11. Nasri's Mouth

    @Gambon

    Coaches plural or coach singular, either way their performances in training will also be looked at and added to their actual games played to judge their value to the club.

    And yes, I’m happy these guys have been re-signed. I doubt we’ll be moaning too much about the ‘guessed’ wage figures for them in a couple of years, when premier league clubs are awash with new TV money and signing up the latest unproved British talent for 100k+/month

  12. gambon

    Marrrrfoooo

    If you think Nani is overpaid you know absolutely nothing about football, which is a worrying trait amongst Arsenal fans.

    Hes one of the leagues best wingers, a guy that was voted players player of the year 2 years ago after a storming season.

  13. Doublegooner

    DDM @ 9.59

    Most of us who are long-termers are just physically and mentally drained by this fucking car crash of a club, and as such we are slowly losing our passion as we’re having the enjoyment of being a Gooner sucked out of us by fucking excuse makers and money men.

    My feelings entirely.

  14. Marrrfooo

    AJ,

    Is he playing now like he was two years ago? No, he’s clearly worse off than then.

    Therefore it’s a least a rough patch. Maybe he’s completely lost all that talent in two years. I mean it’s almost completely impossible bar an utter mental breakdown – but if you say it then it must be true eh!

    All I’m saying is the guy’s not playing well. He doesn’t warrant starting. A new contract? On current form no. But it’s an investment. I’d certainly have pinned more on him than Vela, Djourou or Squillaci – who all got news deals when they weren’t even getting in the XI!

  15. Doublegooner

    All very well signing up a hardcore of unproven Brit Kids.

    What they don’t need is being surrounded by 2nd rate over paid dross.

    Will Wenger ever change from his project youth & complement youff with WORLD CLASS players ??

    Will he fuck.

    Wenger is Wenger & will never change.

    As George Graham said last week. ‘ Arsenal will not win another title’

    Under Wenger they’ll never win another trophy.

    Happy Christmas !

  16. AJ

    This is the point where wenger gets it wrong. He pays younger players over the line, and then finds himself cornered, as they want to leave if he does not increase their wages even more later.

  17. gazzap

    Ramsey is being paid too much. And I think he is played out of position too. I don’t think he is all that creative and he has no pace so cannot play wing or AM. His position is the deeper lying midfielder arteta type position, but he just isn’t as good as arteta. He is more Denilson than Arteta. He needs to pass the ball quicker and more accurately. I’m not sure you can teach that.

  18. Marrrfooo

    Gambon,

    I think Nani’s on something like £80-95k p/wk. Pedro was complaining putting Wilsher near that. I don’t see what all the fuss is about with Nani – not how much he’s actually paid and whether he’s worth that – I’ll ask Deloitte that question perhaps. But for the actual CONSISTENT quality he returns, I think he’s paid a great deal. If Utd signed Fellaini, for example, he’d get paid the same amount I expect – I’d rather have Fellaini – that’s my point.

    Nani did not play that well for sizable parts of last season. He got voted players player – great work. Since then? Less quality for me, certainly less consistent. For ‘best wingers in the league’ see Silva/Bale – they offer consistency. Nani has gotten the same overblown tag that Ronaldo had before he hit 23/24. Everyone raved about him but it was all pace and stepover and varied crossing. Once he hit about 23/24 he was shooting, heading, freekicking people to death and then he was off to Madrid. I don’t see Nani doing that unlke both Bale and Silva, do you? Nor do I see him linked with other clubs abroad, unlike Bale/Silva and Ronaldo prior to his departure.

    No need for the know nothing comments – it’s called an opinion. Everyone is entitled to one – you’re just not entitled to having it heard or agreed with – something you seem to ignore.

  19. Marrrfooo

    AJ – I agree with you there – common problems with overpaying too soon.

    But that was why I’d like to know what the Telegraph meant by sliding scale. I.e. if he could be on £85k in 3-4 years time that’s one thing. If he’s on that straight away, that’s quite another.

  20. gazzap

    couple of weak ties there so that means there will be two weakish teams in the quarter finals. So get past Bayern and you never know how far we could go.

  21. Guns of Hackney

    So, Arsene has realised he is in trouble with his disgusting little experiment and turns on the charm by signing up ‘promising British players’…hoping that we, the fans say “hang on a minute, we’ve always wanted a British backbone and here it is…lets all forget about the last 8 years of bullshit – Wenger is God”.

    The man knows, no shame.

    Well, this pretty much tells you everything you ever really wanted to know…Arsene is here to stay and there is no getting rid of him, ever!

  22. AJ

    Marrrfooo

    Was he that special 2 years ago? I don’t think so. Had he any stand out games like Wilshere? No. Simply overrated, before injury and even now.
    He had played a handful of games before his injury, he has played a season and a half now and has been a disappointment. In my opinion it is enough to conclude that he isn’t good enough. And 60k? lol. Coquelin should be on 80k then.

  23. reality check

    Omg wenger is a beast!

    He’s doing it all over again, could give a dam what anybody thinks. The proof is right there staring at us in the face. Old pic (rvp,nasri,cesc ect) new pic (ramsey jack ect)

    I can’t see how being british changes anything? Theo is, and he’s off! I’m 30yrs, when you pass 25/26 you look at life diffrently. If you haven’t achieved anything in your life or career by 29. It doesn’t matter if your british or foriegn, your going to re-evalute your position and make the neccesary moves to improve your life.

    R. V. P!

    Even if your successful you still get that urge to do more. CR7 Beckham El phenomeno Figo yes, I know these are top tier players but my point is they all moved on later in life.

    If jack becomes as good as cesc, and wins nothing! On his 26th 27th or 28th birthday. Barca man utd or even real madrid make a bid. What’s he going to think. Really?

    Now I know this is all ifs and buts

    But..

    Haven’t we been here b4?

    What happened?

    Where’s project youth 1st class..?

    I mean I’m looking at those pics thinking in a 5-a-side who would win?

  24. salparadiseNYC

    Anyone of those sides is a tough draw for the Arsenal of 12/13.

    Bayern tactically daunting, my infant son could outfox Wenger in a match of hide and seek, well see what a well drilled German side whom are 9 points clear in the bundesliga can do after a winter break.

  25. AJ

    Marrrfooo

    hmmm. 85k seems to be too much considering he is only 20. In 5 years we won’t have the money to pay him wages, beacsue then we cannot be self sufficient and sell him off.

  26. Nasri's Mouth

    Can people please remember that this figure of £60k/wk for Ramsey is simply speculation.

    Nor do we now how it breaks down, performance/appearance bonuses etc.

    Quoting it as some sort of fact is dumb

  27. gambon

    I love Bayern as a club.

    Fantastically well run, unlike Wenger not afraid to spend.

    This season they are playing top quality football. They have a ridiculous midfield, a lot of talent upfront, and homegrown players as well.

    In short – we are well and truely outclassed.

  28. gambon

    Nasris Mouth

    Our players on average earn just £200k per year less than Man Utds players.

    You think Ramsey is on £25k per week? No fucking way.

  29. the_real_andy

    I´m a little bit confused here

    wilshere is on 80-85k a week which isn´t that much for a player with his talent and the fact he plays more or less every game for us. don´t see any problem with this wage at all

    ramsey 60k. little bit too high. 50k would be enough I think but well, those 10k won´t kill us I think and having a squad player (that´s the main thing) on 60k is a little bit too high but as long as it´s just one it´s ok I think.

    gibbs/ox 50-55k. well both players are young, both play regularly. ox is a real talented boy who may well be a real real good player within 1 or 2 years. no problem with this wage at all. gibbs again play regularly, was part of our very good defensive at the beginning of the season and is quite impressive going forward with a lot of assists already. paying a guy 50k who plays more or less every game and assisted already 6 goals or something like that is … fine I think

    jenk on 30k. 30 k for a squad player is 100 % normal. it´s fine.

    if ramsey had earned 80k, ox 70k, gibbs 70k, jenk 60k I would be with you here guys. way too much. but except of ramsey who may earn 10k too much I don´t see any problem with these wages

  30. kapslock

    What a draw. Think they can be beaten over 2 legs as long as we don’t concede at home (have to laugh). They’ve got some important players out injured. Would love to go. If anyone has any spares or can’t make it please let me know.

    Madrid v United – looking forward to that. Hope Mou fucks them over

  31. gambon

    “wilshere is on 80-85k a week which isn´t that much for a player with his talent”

    What?

    Hes on twice what Cabaye is on, but Cabaye actually scores and sets goals up.

    Hes on the same as Gotze, a talent way way way beyond Jacks.

    Its twice Marek Hamsiks salary, a guy who has 7 goals and 6 assists this season already.

  32. AJ

    the_real_andy December 20, 2012 11:07:21

    I´m a little bit confused here

    wilshere is on 80-85k a week which isn´t that much for a player with his talent and the fact he plays more or less every game for us. don´t see any problem with this wage at all

    Okay. Wilshere on around 85k is no problem, but then why do they refuse when a new player demands big wages if they can afford to pay?

    ‘ramsey 60k. little bit too high. 50k would be enough I think but well, those 10k won´t kill us I think and having a squad player (that´s the main thing) on 60k is a little bit too high but as long as it´s just one it´s ok I think.’

    Even 50k is too much. There are many better mid field players in the league, who I promise you are on a fraction of that.

  33. the_real_andy

    well I guys I´m Austrian and I don´t know whether you watch German football regularly but bayern isn´t unbeatable.

    their defensive line is questionable at best. their star player is ribery and stopping him may well be enough (easier said than done though) to avoid a high number of chances. their second CB badstuber is out for both legs as far as I know so they have to play boateng as CB who´s, to make a long story short, a bad player, comparable to djourou. and even he is suspended for the first leg I think.

    they tend to have 60 – 65 % possession every game and that´s the reason they don´t concede regularly because their opponents don´t have enough possession to cause problems constantly in 90 minutes. we should be capable to possess 50 % which could be the key to success.

    there were easier opponents in the pot but there were harder ones for sure too

  34. Demon

    I agree with gambon

    Arsenal will be found wanting by a club with a similar wage bill.

    Bayern…top players all over the field…

    Bayerns wingers…..ribery, robben,
    Arsenals wingers, gervinho, wally

    NUFF SAID

  35. Nasri's Mouth

    Gambon: You think Ramsey is on £25k per week? No fucking way.

    I doubt he is, but hold on, I can’t see where I said he was. Stop making stuff up to try to prove your point.

    But I like the way you add a swear word in there to reinforce your point though.

    As for comparing Wilshere to Gotze, Hamsik and Cabaye, first off you’d need to compare his NEW salary to their NEW salary if they signed one today, NOT their existing ones and second in the case of the first 2 you’d have to compensate for the fact that foreign players in foreign leagues will tend to earn a fair bit less than English players in the PL. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Another poor argument

  36. gambon

    What exactly is Ramseys job?

    He doesnt score, doesnt assist, is rubbish in the final third, doesnt tackle a lot.

    He has a high pass completion % but gives the ball away in key moments way too much.

    So what is the point? He isnt a DM, isnt an AM, cant do a decent CM job.

    Wenger is blatantly keeping him as hes ashamed to admit he got it wrong.

  37. the_real_andy

    gambon

    once again – you can´t compare different leagues. and cabaye hasn´t signed up yet as far as I know – he´s still on his first contract with ncastle. again this is not comparable.

    aj

    I didn´t want to point out everything´s fine at our club. I just wanted to say it´s ok to pay wilshere 85k IMO. ramsey 50k too much … hmm … maybe you´re right there mate. but there´s some kind of obsession from AW for him which I can´t understand. maybe he improves tremendously soon 🙂

  38. AJ

    I haven’t watches Bayern much. Do not know what to expect really. They have been performing well in the tournament though.

  39. gambon

    “they´ve lost 3:0 to bate borisov”

    2 Bayern fans right now:

    Fritz: “They lost to ze team called Bradford”

    Horst: “Wow, but im sure Cesc, VanPersie, Nasri can still do damage”

    Fritz: “Erm, no, they sold them all”

    Horst: “Well they surely reinvested in quality, they are rich like us”

    Fritz: “Erm”

  40. gambon

    Pedro

    Massively tough, only Barca was a worse draw IMO

    Bayern are everything we should be.

    Make their own money, cheap tickets, aggressive commercially, keep their wages under control but always willing to invest significantly.

    We report £50m profit per year, they report £3m per year cos they invest the other £47m in players like Neuer, Dante, Martinez, Robben, Ribery, Gomez & Mandzukic.

    They also have a great youth system.

  41. bergkamp63

    Jamal
    December 20, 2012 11:12:10
    Bayern have scored over 40 goals and conceded less than 10 in the Bundesliga. Its gonna be a real tough game.

    No it is not going to be a tough game at all ?

    It will be very one sided !!

  42. marcus

    What happens to the English CL spots now when man city and Chelsea crashed out in the groups and Arsenal and Man Utd will most likely be eliminated in the last 16.. Will one spot be lost so it’s only CL for the top 3 from now on?

  43. bergkamp63

    Neuer
    Lahm
    Dante
    Boateng
    Alaba
    Martinez
    Schweinsteiger
    Muller
    Kroos
    Ribery
    Mandzukic

    We are going to get spanked !!

  44. rocky7

    is it just me??? -Just watched the champions league draw…..

    When AC Milan were drawn out of the ‘away’ hat, they skipped the draw and gave them Barcelona.

    I understand they could not play Malaga as they were in their group. What could of stopped milan potentially playing Man Utd , or Paris St Germain???

    I just checked the rules and nothing clarifies to me why man u and paris could not be drawn against AC

    Then after the draw sky sports reporter said that the whole draw was EXACTLY the same as the in rehearsal??? What are the odds of that happening???

    Can someone please explain to me why Barcelona where not drawn from the bowl with Man Utd and Paris also???

    Iam amazed that no one picked up on it in the studio?

    Am i missing something here????

    i just googled champions league draw fix, and this link come up which was interesting from years past….

    http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/2008/03/14/was-the-champions-league-draw-fixed/

    ps. good to be back, shame we are in a worse off position that when i last posted.

    UP THE GUNNERS

  45. HP

    Hopefully we get spanked show those cunt of a board and manager how to run a successful and ambitious club through your own means

    Btw sterling agreed to a 30k 5 year deal

    fucking 30k!

    and we have championship players like gibbs/ramsey/ox over 50k who have conrtibuted nothing to the team,

    Wenger is the cancer of arsenal.

  46. Afc53

    Ramsey isn’t worth 45 grand a week let alone what we are gonna pay him.

    Would love and out and out animal in our side as DM someone like De Jong he would have been ideal

  47. Bob N7

    Gambon, you do love to moan. I for one welcome the ‘new signings’ and in particular Wilshere who unless injury gets in the way has a real chance to be an all time great. Just because I’ve been watching Arsenal before you were a ‘twinkle’ in your parents eye doesn’t make me a better judge of players than someone younger, but I’ve seen enough already to think Wilshere could well be up there with Brady and Bergkamp.
    Now you may well disagree but it seems eminently sensible to give your future ‘talisman’\captain a degree of parity with the top earners. We know that there’s this extra revenue stream coming in soon- the agents and players know too! I’m down on Ramsay too but I think the bigger picture, however contrary to the days of “I don’t look at the passports!”, is sound.
    Don’t get me wrong, I want Wenger to leave gracefully at the end of the season, but I get this latest commitment to these five.
    If your down on everything Arsenal, clearly you won’t.

  48. bergkamp63

    BobN7,

    Apart from Wilshere (and that’s debatable), no of them have earned a pay rise or indeed had there contracts up for renewal discussion for at least another year and two years in most cases ?

    Why exactly are we spunking more money at this point when we desperately need world class players to come in ?

  49. bergkamp63

    The Gunners boss has claimed that he will enter the market for “exceptional” talent but has admitted that he is more concerned with developing the players that he already has.

  50. the_real_andy

    rocky7 and zargooner

    it´s not that complicated really. in 2nd pot there were milan, valencia, real and porto. so 2 spanish club. in the 1st pot there were mancs, barca, malaga and psg left. again 2 spanish clubs. so that means barca and malaga can only play against milan and porto. as malaga played already in the same group as milan did they had to play porto – which ends up milan playing barca. everything´s fine there

  51. gambon

    Wenger has been banging on about “exceptional players” and “super super class” players for 5 years, and signed Ramsey, Fabianski, Santos, Koscielny, Gervinho, Park, Chamakh.

    Dont trust the Wonga Wanker Wenger with the clubs money at all.

  52. rocky7

    ZarGoooner :

    Weird eh??? Checked and re checked the rules and nothing saying that Barcelona get to handpick the easiest big game tie 😉

    Can anyone here please tell me why that man utd and Paris were not allowed to be drawn against Milan?

    I can’t believe it was a mistake??? if so surely it all needs to be re drawn?

    Also even stranger that the draw was the same matches as that were drawn in the rehearsal.

    I am glad someone else saw it. 🙂

  53. gambon

    If its true that all 8 ties came out the same as they did in the rehearsal then its a 100% guaranteed fix, no 2 ways about it.

  54. Marko

    Gambon you make some good points but again you can’t compare Wilshere to the likes of Gotze and Hamsik he plays so much deeper than them and the only fair comparison would be to compare him to the likes of Inler or in Dortmunds case Gundogan/Kehl. Gotze plays more like Walcott as a winger anyway. Bayern should win too they’re a class above this season

  55. bergkamp63

    Usmanov bought another 10 shares privately to take his total to 18,637 giving him 29.95%. He is 29 shares short of 30%.

  56. Marko

    Unless of course we were to surprise the world and sign some good players this Jan cause they’re a lot out there that aren’t cup tied like Honda, Doumbia, Capoue, Damiao, Paulinho, Cavani, Llorente, Muniain, Benat etc.

  57. Samir

    Just watched the Usmanov video…Cannot believe he doesn’t have a seat on the board whilst owning near 30% of our club.

    That is ridiculously rude and disrespectful…If I was him, I’d go and buy someone like Spurs…Turn them into the worlds best team…See how Kroneke etc like that.

    This guy actually wants to see Arsenal up there challenging…No doubt if he was our owner we’d have far superior players and we’d be top of the league.

    KRONEKE OUT.
    USMANOV IN.

  58. Phil

    This new signingfest is a joke.
    does the club think we will believe that the era of losing our best players is now over?
    Yes we had learnt our lesson, so we are locking in our best players to long term contracts.
    Wrong
    Ramsay is not one of our best players. He is not worth half his contract.
    Jenkinson may end up ok but this just smacks of Arsenal deciding to sell Sagna, replacing him with Jenkinson and saving themselves 30k a week.
    The OX, hasn’t earned the right for the big contract yet. How do players learn to improve when they are rewaraded before they perform.
    Gibbs clearly our only decent LB, so ok
    LJW is player you can include in our future. Big contract, and yes he doesn’t have the stats yet to back up the contract, but missing a year has definitely slowed his development. Still think he will be a gun.

  59. bergkamp63

    IMO he will bid once he reaches his 30%. I would piss myself if Kroenke sold the club and sold PHW & the rest of the board down the river !!

  60. Jamal

    “If I was him, I’d go and buy someone like Spurs…Turn them into the worlds best team…”

    Thats a scary thought !!

  61. Smiffy

    If you consider the energy, passion and sheer determination to win as Wilshere having done nothing then it is obvious you are one of those people who just likes to moan about anything regardless.

    I can see it now, if we didn’t sign them up and then lost them, you’d be criticising for that.

  62. Danish Gooner

    Wenger have again rewarded absolute mediocrity,everyone know if they want out they will get out no matter how long their contract is.Jenkinson improved but still far from being an Arsenal first,The OX the biggest disappointment,thought we had secured our own Rooney but spend most of the time running around like a headless chicken never really puts his body on the line even though his tremendous physique reminds a little bid of that utter cunt Baptista built like a brick layer but as harmles as a pussy cat.Ramsey aka the new Gerrard another headless chicken with a concentration span of chimpanse.Gibbs much impoved but still extremely lightweight how will he fare against Robben i tell you how he will get murdered and finally Jackyboy the only real potential of a real superstar and remember if Owen Coyle hadnt taken him under his wings and teached howto work for it he would be another pussy cat and finally dont you all just love the picture of uncle Wenger standing there all smug “look i have signed these players and i am so happy because i am the proffesseur and no one could have done it like me, i am a massive fan of awarding underachievers”.

  63. TitsMcgee

    I don’t like rewarding players for mediocrity and that is what it seems like we are doing…

    Bayern Munich is a very good team and I’d be very surprised if we made it difficult for them much less get a positive result. I can see them beating us rather easily(along the lines of 4-1 or 5-1 aggregate). Call me what you want but I am glad we got Munich first up. It’s win-win for us. Win? Ok…Lose and it’s more pressure on Wenger.

    Wenger and Ivan treat us like simpletons who can’t see through the thinly veiled smoke screen…

  64. gazzap

    Why does SK own Arsenal? Has to be for money right? It’s not because he loves English football and loves Arsenal and just wants to see us win the PL at any cost.
    So he thinks he can make money from the club each year from dividends and probably more likely he thinks the club will be worth more in x years time WHEN HE SELLS.

    I cannot see any other reason why he got involved. Sure it was a long term investment when he bought but if he can make bigger bucks in the short term surely he would sell. Usmanov would give SK the maximum that those shares are worth, and will overpay for the club. SK would be mad not to listen to his offer. I cannot rule out that SK is mad though. What we as fans need to do is put pressure on SK to get out of our club. If he senses he is not wanted, and he is offered big money, he WILL sell. I am sure of that. Us fans must do our bit.

  65. Nasri's Mouth

    @samir

    If you were him you might well go and turn Spurs into a world beating side, but if you were Kroenke you certainly wouldn’t give him a seat on the board

    Its nothing to do with being rude or disrespectful, it’s to do with business

  66. TOLI83

    Smiffy,

    It’s not signing them up that’s the problem, its the huge raise they get with it, when essentially little progression has been made.

    Like years ago I would have agreed Bendtner and Denilson should have had their contracts extended but on the basis they were earning £30k each as they were squad players, good for back up. Same for Diaby and JD. They should no their place as they arent first teamers and if they dont like it they know what to do.

    Giving Ox, Jack, Gibbs etc extended contracts makes sense but not on the level that we have done as we have shot our load on this one. This is exactly what stops us getting the cream of the crop.

  67. Arsene's Nurse

    This deal and the figures suggested is only make sense if there are clauses in the contracts that cut their wages by half or more if we don’t make the CL.

  68. Nasri's Mouth

    @arsene’s nurse

    I’d be surprised if they did have such clauses. Much more likely are bonuses based on reaching it. Most clubs will use a bonus structure like that.

    Remember the Spurs players complaining they wouldn’t be getting their CL qualification bonuses when Chelsea won it ?

    They’ll have a basic wage, then additions based on reaching the CL, reaching the last 16, winning the league, number of games played, etc.etc.

  69. TheBayingMob

    Wilshere on 85k? Is that true!?

    This says one thing to me, the ongoing problem with players being allowed to run down their contract then sold for profit is a conscious decision and direction from the club.

    If you look at the wage structure, and if the Wenger / Gazidis / Sustainable model stays in place as it is, then Wilshere quickly ends up in Theo’s situation. Wants a payrise/new deal, club can’t / won’t give him one as he’s already maxed out.

    The only option then is to sell, club plead innocense in the face of player greed!

    Anyone else think this is a just a long term strateg from the club!? Are we being taken for cunts here?

    The Bayong Mob is getting closer …

  70. Bade

    Pedro

    I see a serious drop in performance for you lately mate.

    Facts wise, you’re getting into the Arsene own world facts.

    Carlos Vela? Ermmm, He’s in Spain, right?

    And Arsene saying the loss to Bradford was the 1st in the last 16 years? Ermmm, Arsene, we lost to Ipswich & Burnely too, when you were the manager

  71. TOLI83

    The thing is if you look at those over inflated wages, you can see why Theo (based on what he has actually achieved in terms of assists & goals) thinks he is worth £100k a week.

    Im not saying he is worth that much, but he’s looking around thinking to himself “most of you lot are shit but on a decent wage”. Or thinking most of you struggle to play 10 games a year because your weak but your on a half decent wage as well.

    Its laughable and thats why we struggle.

  72. Bade

    Other than that, very good post Pedro

    I agree with most of the notion

    Blimey, it’s time we stop paying SO MUCH for only the potential, because we don’t have a manager who’s the best motivator & we need those contracts to spark players, but our contracts seem to do the opposite impact

    Also, say Ramsey hits the form of his life in his 3rd year of this new contract. He’ll come knocking for 120k & we either will refuse to pay him & lose him or we’ll pay him, so that means we’ve been paying him too much for nothing

    He will take the overrated pay now, but the minute he hits his form he’ll come asking for what a players in form ask for. So what have we “saved” exactly in the process ?

  73. marcus

    @rocky7
    rocky7December 20, 2012 11:47:40
    is it just me??? -Just watched the champions league draw…..When AC Milan were drawn out of the ‘away’ hat, they skipped the draw and gave them Barcelona. I understand they could not play Malaga as they were in their group. What could of stopped milan potentially playing Man Utd , or Paris St Germain??? I just checked the rules and nothing clarifies to me why man u and paris could not be drawn against ACThen after the draw sky sports reporter said that the whole draw was EXACTLY the same as the in rehearsal??? What are the odds of that happening??? Can someone please explain to me why Barcelona where not drawn from the bowl with Man Utd and Paris also??? Iam amazed that no one picked up on it in the studio?Am i missing something here????i just googled champions league draw fix, and this link come up which was interesting from years past….http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/2008/03/14/was-the-champions-league-draw-fixed/ps. good to be back, shame we are in a worse off position that when i last posted.UP THE GUNNERS

    ______________

    No, the draw was obviously not rigged.

    The reason why Milan were handed Barcelona was that otherwise the other matches would not add up.

    When Milan was drawn, there were three runners up left (Porto, Real Madrid & Valencia) and four group winners left (PSG, Malaga, Barcelona & Man Utd).

    Since teams cannot be drawn against teams from their own country, this causes a problem since there is 2 spanish teams among the runners-up (Real Madrid & Valencia) and 2 among the group winners (Barcelona & Malaga). These teams cannot be drawn against each other.

    This implies that the away teams Real madrid & Valencia must be drawn against Man Utd & PSG.

    This leaves Milan and Porto to be drawn against Barcelona or Malaga.

    As Milan and Malaga were in the same group, they could not be drawn against each other, thus leaving only Barcelona as a possible opponent.

    There you go. No conspiracies here 😛

  74. TitsMcgee

    Agree also that we got the toughest matchup of all the pairings that did occur.

    Second toughest “possible” matchup behind drawing Barcelona I guess.

  75. gazzap

    Alfie, I doubt its that high. There are only a few permutations. Having said that even if its 25-1, it still looks like a fix. But I think once the first team our have drawn a certain team then the options further down the draw diminish considerably as explained by marcus above.
    The chances of Arsenal getting Barca were higher than 6-1 even though we could have drawn 6 teams because of the way that other teams couldn’t play each other. 4 spanish teams involved, 2 Italian, 2 German, 2 English.
    Even so there were a number of ways the draw could have gone so it looks a fix.

  76. Ric#2

    Query;

    Who thinks Gibbs should feel shortchanged? I for one think he deserves way more than say Ramsey.

    Isn’t he technically our nr. 1 leftback? And Ramsey just our nr 3…. everything?

  77. Arsenal 1886-2006

    Wenger now has his excuse for the January transfer window, “we have no money to spend after renewing contracts for our brightest young talent”.

    Jenkinson: I like Jenks, maybe it is because he is a Gooner born and bred but I love a genuine Arsenal fan playing for the club.

    Jack: Has potential to be a great player, needs to take on a few shots and get a taste for goal to reach the top.

    Ox: Given the right coaching (new manager) he could be the pick of the crop for me.

    Gibbs: No longer a young player in my eyes. Needs to stay fit and show he has what it takes to be a consistently competent left back.

    Ramsey: I feel for Ramsey, I really like the kid and feel he could have been a good enough player, but the injury and constantly being played out of position has destroyed any confidence he may of had when younger.

    The next 2 years are important for these 5 players, with one-on-one coaching and strict tactical and positional awareness they could all be decent enough players when playing alongside some highly talented and experienced teammates. We need 2-3 exceptional players signed to bring out the potential that is there. Therein lies the problem, we know that will never happen and these kids could well drift into mediocrity without proper guidance.

  78. arsenesabemejor

    Its funny to see so many people having a go about the wages , you dont even know that the figures are accurate, talk about sheep!!!!!baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  79. gunner0389

    perdo i think your argument is granted and there should be questions asked of this decision if the wages reported are to be true because frankly none of them have done anything Football wise to merit them.

    But again you speak of other players at different clubs not earning the same but lest compare cleverly a player far inferior to jack has just bagged him self a new 65k a week contract for playing a few good games and welbeck managed to get 75k off of a couple of games. its the trend with English talent managers are almost forced into gifting high contracts you have little choice because other clubs would pay them those wages its a similar story with transfer fees english players will always be on average 10 mil more than they are actuali worth.

    this is a political game english players are treated like gold regardless of talent or consistency purely because your damned if you dont. Someone spoke about cabaye being on his 1st contract thats because different to being in a top 4 or 6 team is at newcastle he is noticed and people see the talent but bigger clubs are less inclined to jump in for him because of risks like big fish in a small pond (huntlaar as example the man failed at bigger clubs but he excels at shalke??), tactical differences wud he adapt to way of play and still be the same player etc. But being at a bigger club other big teams are more readily to take a pun on your talent offer u higher wages just because ur a big club so in that way parent clubs are almst readiy forced to give u a contract. Sterlings case being an example the boy has talent but like the 5 new arsenal signings hes just bagged a 30k (reported) contract wud we see foreign players get that after 10-15 good games??? i highly doubt it.

    It a lose lose for wenger here my only point would be to stipulte the pay with a 10 k increase each year so gibbs, ox , rambo shud have a base of 40 and wilshere the best out the bunch base of 50.Only jenks wage seems ok because any other team he cud potentially gt that. personay i think that is the way to go with unknown or potential talents because u dnt know what heights they will scale to.I know its an extreme example but messis contract is much the same stipulated with a base salary of what they believe he deserves and the rest he has to work for save having negotiate and havin a disgruntled player on your hands because he knws to gt the money he “thinks” he deserves its on HIM to work for it.

  80. arsenesabemejor

    Given the length of time these negotiations appear to take do you really think they get a straight wage , its bound to be linked to appearances,cl qualification,loyalty etc so anyone who believes the figures or thinks that they just get a straight wage per week is really gullible

  81. Nasri's Mouth

    ric#2 : Who thinks Gibbs should feel shortchanged? I for one think he deserves way more than say Ramsey.

    the figures given for both players are speculative, so we don’t know that gibbs is earning less than ramsey.

  82. Ric#2

    Nasri’s MouthDecember 20, 2012 14:25:00

    Well the point was that whatever they do get, I for one feel Ramsey barely deserves half of whatever Gibbs is getting.

  83. marxdrive

    So many negative opinions based on little to no facts.

    We all know there were talks about a no CL clause being put into contracts.

    We don’t know how much is based upon performance or appearances etc.

    Complain when their contracts run into the last season.
    Complain when they are given a new contract.

    I for one am happy we have a British backbone going forward. If we get rid of the dross, there is plenty of room for potential. And ‘should’ still have the financial lei way for top class additions.

  84. Guns of Hackney

    I can’t speak for anyone else but I’m damn proud of the way Arsenal Football Club is run. Yes I get frustrated that we lose the easiest of matches at times, but the league is growing more competitive at the bottom of the pack every year and obscene amounts of money are being thrown at anyone who can kick a ball at the other end. “Silent Stan” is perfect in my books, I know he has cash but I don’t want a single cent of his being poured into Arsenal as then we’re no better than the City’s, Anzhi’s, PSG’s, Malaga’s and Chelski’s of the world. I can’t say this for certain as I love my beautiful Arsenal wholeheartedly but if Usmanov ever takes over and throws cash around like Abramovich then I may have to start supporting another team. It’s not how I want my Arsenal to operate, not now, not ever. Wenger will leave two major legacies at Arsenal, the beautiful game on the pitch, and the financially responsible game off the pitch. In Wenger I don’t just trust, I live.

  85. arsenesabemejor

    Guns how come you can make a point without swearing or calling the manager names? Do you really expect people to take you seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  86. Kurt F

    Off on a slight tangent, but it seems Huntelaar might not be coming in January now, which I don’t think is bad news. It either means we’re probably going to keep Theo or we’ve got someone else in mind (unless Wenger is going to insist the squad doesn’t need additions, which now that I’ve just written it actually seems by far the most likely option).

    Anyone think Benteke might be worth a punt? From what I’ve seen of him this season he’s been a beast – he’s strong and quick with good close control and at 22 has the potential to develop into a truly world class player.

  87. TitsMcgee

    You are happy with the way things run?….You are happy with being mediocre?

    Sure we aren’t broke or financially in trouble but you don’t have to be to field a good team….

    …and if we start to splash money around you will bolt?….

    Fishy at best.

  88. Guns of Hackney

    Just saying how I feel – too much hate on this site. At this time of the year, it’s important to remember the spirit of Christmas and what it stands for.

    It’s not all about drunkeness, money and violence.

  89. arsenesabemejor

    Guns I think you mistake hate for ignorance/stupidity you only have to read some of the posts ,to guess the iq of some of the posters

  90. Rrobbins

    PR totally. Cya for gazidis, the board, and arsene. Where are the incentives? If theo goes it is an over stretch to the mediocrity. Who on our team does the opposition fear beside cazorla? We need “star” power skills in at least three positions. How does Ramsey make the same mistakes every game and get a raise? What do they show him on film and in practice. Jenkinson and Gibbs good to do; but Ox needs incentives to grow, rvp deserved the money. With a real offer could he not have been signed? Now they start again. That picture was scary.

  91. Guns of Hackney

    I know – 99% of of them are knuckle dragging, mouth breathers. Reebok Classics, Stella, Nuts Magazine and the X Box is all these clowns live for.

  92. TitsMcgee

    Wenger will use these contract extensions as “signings”. How he can look at this squad and deem that it needs no additions is mind-boggling.

  93. marxdrive

    99% of the people on here remind me of the age old proverb:

    “If I wanted to hear the opinion of an ass, I would of farted”

  94. Guns of Hackney

    Marxdrive

    and “better to be thought a fool and stay silent than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt”

    Well done for confirming what a few of us think about you.

  95. marxdrive

    I wasn’t actual talking about you. I called you a mug in reference to what I thought was you being sarcastic at 15:08:36