Sagna given the green light to leave | Drogba unlikely to be joining us

by & filed under News Review.

Morning everyone, I’ve got a beast of a morning on so I’ll have to be super quick and return with a post a bit later.

Wenger has given Bacary Sagna a bit of a telling off in public for his outburst in the press earlier in the week.

“I believe any player or any employee always had to defend the company he works for.

“And if he is not completely happy with it, then he has to go somewhere else. That is what I
say to everybody.”
I’m not sure that’s the attitude to show to your best players. The idea that you simply leave if you’re not happy seems to be theme of Arsenal over the past few years. Surely Arsene should be focusing on exactly what the issues are rather than skirting over them as if it’s a commitment problem, not a deep seated issue with the way the club are run at the moment. Hopefully Sagna will sign on, but he’s at the age where if he doesn’t go somewhere competitive, he’s going to end his career winning nothing. That’s what Arsene Wenger doesn’t seem to grasp… these players only have 6-7 years at the top… being part of a project that’s not working could leave them potless come the end of their career. Fine if they’re average players, not fine if they’re amongst the best in the world.
In other news, Wenger ruled himself out of a move for Didier Drogba. Not because he’s uninterested, but because he doesn’t think he’s available. I’d be surprised if Drogba just upped and left risking a monster payout. He’d be a superb addition to the squad. He knows where the net is and he’d definitely give us a different flavour. Kind of like a fitter version of Thierry. I still have no idea what we’re going to do if we pick up a striker injury. It seems crazy to go into a season with such a lack of options.
Southampton are up tomorrow, I’ll give you more of a post then!

260 Responses to “Sagna given the green light to leave | Drogba unlikely to be joining us”

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  1. Gus J

    Mental strength or actual skill and effort? Still a bit unsure I have to say. Tending to lean towards the former though. Guess my brain is becoming susceptible to Wenger Jedi Mind Trick. Hope he doesn’t lean me off beer!

  2. MeGunner

    Can’t Pedro make blogging a full time job? I promise we’ll be clicking the adds like crazy. short, late post! I hate Pedro more than the international break

  3. Bade

    Re Yetsreday’s post

    Kushagra,
    It meant he made profit int he transfer market, opting not to spend what he’s given (regardless how much it is). That means with him we’re selling players for 20+ m but never regain the same quality. That means feeder club. Check Everton stature for this

    Mayank
    When Arsene came we had the same EPL titles as Mancs. That’s a fact, 10 to 10.

    Arsene should have done much better with us. We lost to Mancs & Chavs more than 2 titles in the last 8 years. We should have at least won the 2005, 2008, 2010. That would have resulted less titles for Mancs, more titles for us

    But now they have 6 titles more than us

  4. gambon

    Now you see who the real problem at the club is.

    Arsene ‘LeSenile’ Wenger.

    Sagna, quite rightly, wasnt too happy with the direction, so Wenger had 2 options:

    1- Take the criticism on board and try to change things, starting with keeping our current only world class player, Sagna.

    2- Tell him to fuck off

    Guess what he did.

    Now you see why players like RVP left.

    No doubt RVP at some point last season after one of our many losses, or after one of our HUMILIATIONS said that tings need to change, and Arsene promptly said “If you dont like it, fuck off”

    All you mugs talking about ‘greedy’ RVP, Nasri, Cesc etc have been made to look like right cunts.

    Wheres El Tel, the alcoholic, barely literate cunt?

  5. Skandibird

    Pedro, I not know why you’re concerned about the striker situation, there’s also Chamakh, I’m sure he’ll step up to the plate if or when either of our new strikers should be injured…… Oh I love a Friday sarcasm opportunity

  6. gambon

    Bade

    Dont agree that we shouldve won in 2005. That Chelsea team was just ridiculously good, with a manager thats 10 x better than Wenger. The guy that destroyed him and made him retreat into his project youth based shell.

    Wenger has underachieved though, no doubt.

    We threw the title in 1999, 2003 & 2008. We threw the FA Cup in 2001, and the UEFA cup in 2000. Weve never won the CL despite being in it for 16 years and being the best team in europe in 2004.

    Wenger will always be a loser. He has a losers mentality and is a weak man, which transmits itself to the team.

  7. Tope O.

    Wenger’s comment’s to Sagna are absolutely right,i’m surprised you can try to defend Sagna here. Note: Wenger is unhappy Sagna went to the press,he’s not unhappy that Sagna is unhappy. ‘Defend the team in public, let me know how you feel in private’,that sort of thing.

  8. Skandibird

    Gambon, The Dutch boy behavior is and WAS a selfish act whatever you say. I hate him for it, and as far as I’m concerned he can go and disappear to Turkey soon as he’s ready for more money once his days are over at ManUre. In my mind and heart he never played for MY club and I really don’t want to read or hear about him on this blog or any other blog by any true Arsenal supporter

  9. Bade

    Gambon

    In the 2005 seasons we lost to Chavs head to head, and he had a stupid dip in form & let them catch us before the X-mas if I remember correctly

    I think we started off that season with a ridiculous run of 25 point out of 27, then we vanished & by the time we gathered our pieces Jose was too far to catch

    As for the rest of your post, sadly I agree with you. By the way in 1999 we threw away the FA cup as well …..

  10. fanboy

    “And if he is not completely happy with it, then he has to go somewhere else. That is what I
    say to everybody.”

    From the man who said he tried to keep all the players that left. Lies and contradictions

  11. Vishal Snb

    ‘Defend the team in public, let me know how you feel in private’,that sort of thing.

    Well Said. thats exactly what it is. Unfortunately, this will go over the heads of most senile bloggers like the one that penned this article

  12. azed

    Wenger is the problem. I wonder how people can abuse thee players that left us. FFS even Denilson wanted to leave so he could win a trophy!!!

  13. Pete The First

    Arsene promptly said “If you dont like it, fuck off”

    Comedy gold. I can just see the scene in the drssing room! Ha hahaha

  14. Bade

    As for Arsene Wenger’s comment regarding Sagna

    THIS MAN CAN’T STOP CONTRADICTING HIMSELF, CAN HE?

    So Robin, Cecs wanted to leave, yet Arsene tried to convince us all that he “battled hard” to keep them but then had no option but sell

    Well Arsene, if you motto is those comments, how come you battled to keep Cesc, Robin, Nasri etc …… Seems to me as another poor contradiction Arsene

  15. gambon

    Skandi

    I think your hate is directed at the wrong person.

    RVP wants to play at the very top, Arsene has decided he doesnt want to be at the very top. Arsenal as a club have decided they want to be a very rich feeder club.

    Read Gazidis’ interview yesterday, some of the most ridiculous bullshit ive ever read. The guy doesnt have a clue what hes doing, he’s just excellent at basically lying in interviews, and spinning things to paint a rosy picture.

  16. Bade

    Kush

    It wasn’t the question, I wasn’t comparing him to former managers, just to the other manages in the league

    He spent less than anyone else, that means he didn’t exploit our full potential & that’s the main problem

    It’s like getting to 100mph in a race saying it’s good, but totally denying the facts you had a car able to take you over 150mph but you couldn’t drive as well as you should

  17. Phil

    Wenger on Sagna’s comment about Song – ” so when you have Arteta, Diaby, Carzola and Song, one can’t play”
    Very insightful comment there, and his justification for letting Song go.
    So having a deep squad is not important?

  18. Bade

    People should remember Sagna mostly criticised the sale of Song WITHOUT REPLACEMENT

    And that’s what many of us said

    We always have the same problem of a thin squad quality wise.

    Then we always hear Arsene moaning how injuries killed our seasons, as if it wasn’t the case of the last few years

    Sadly though, as long as you have foolish people in abundance to believe his poor spins, that will remain the case

  19. Leedsgunner

    “I still have no idea what we’re going to do if we pick up a striker injury. It seems crazy to go into a season with such a lack of options.”

    Again, Pedro agrees with me.

    We have a wafer thin squad in terms of real genuine quality. Putting together a team to win the EPL is not just a numbers game, getting in the bodies to make up the numbers we have to have a first XI that can compete (and a bench) supported by a good group squad players who are hungry to get into the first XI when the opportunity presents itself. We don’t need unwanted, unambitious, chronically injured wasters padding out the squad. They are not super super quality and they don’t super super belong in this team.

    Sagna, let me wish you farewell now. Arsene says you’ll be staying, and you and I know both what that means.

    Like Robin, I’m sure you said what you said because you wanted best for the club. I’m just so sorry that the club is in such a state where senior players like you cannot air genuine grievances behind doors (and feel that you are listened to.) I would feel frustrated too if promised were continually made and not kept. You want to win things as a player. I would too if I were you.

    Frustrated? Of course you are. Yet, you are our main RB. You can do something about it. In your last season for Arsenal, do us the fans a favour and play your heart out. Go out with a bang, not with a whimper.

  20. Bjonan

    “Sagna is a loyal servant. Its wrong for people to throw him the sticks.”

    @cynorix…when you are a loyal servant u don’t go around in public saying lame shit about your employer,sit down on the table and air your discomfort,the press does not pay his wages its the club he should be telling his problems.

    And If he is world class he had better start acting like it….he is unsettled because a youngster is playing well in his number..FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!!!

  21. andy

    gambon and co … I wonder what you wanted to hear from AW after sagna´s interview? should he say thank you bac? what´s wrong with you guys? there´s nothing more shite than players criticize in public even if it´s correct and true. you can´t afford to do this. it doesn´t help your club, it doesn´t help your team, it doesn´t help your coach and it doesn´t help yourself. it´s simply dumb. that´s the reason why players tend to say nothing if they aren´t happy. except for our players. the tend to go public and tell everyone what they think or – far more possible – tell them what they want to hear. it´s bullsh*t and defending sagna is a no-go. you can say he´s right, you can say he´s wrong but it still remains a no-go

  22. fanboy

    And If he is world class he had better start acting like it….he is unsettled because a youngster is playing well in his number..FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!!!

    Friday joke?

  23. fanboy

    ” that´s the reason why players tend to say nothing if they aren´t happy. except for our players. the tend to go public and tell everyone what they think or – far more possible – tell them what they want to hear.”

    Have you ever considered why its only our players that do that?

  24. Mayank

    Bade,

    Forget the titles we’d won. Most of which were pre-war so can’t even be considered in this evaluation. Tell me if you seriously think that we were on an equal footing with Utd when Arsene came to the club.

    Then tell me if you honestly think we’d have overtaken Utd’s title haul under any other manager in the world during the first 7 years of Wenger’s reign. At a time when Utd broke the PL transfer record with Rio, Veron and Rooney.

    I agree Wenger has underachieved on many occasions. I agree the last 7 years could’ve been better under different management. I even agree Wenger leaving right now might do the club good.

    But if you’re not willing to budge on the fact that Utd were superior to us when Wenger arrived and that we’ve had our most dominant period post war under Wenger, then it tells me all I need to know about your objectivity.

  25. Kavit Patel

    And If he is world class he had better start acting like it….he is unsettled because a youngster is playing well in his number..FUCKING RIDICULOUS!!!!
    —————————————————————————————————–

    Wow wow WOW, a few good games by Jenkinson who has MILES to go to get anywhere close to Sagna’s level and you think Bac is unsettled by that….

    Sagna has been around 5 years, in which each year we have sold our best players mostly without replacements. He’s one of the few in this squad you can always guarantee puts in 100% every game he plays.

    Bacary Sagna is world class on the pitch, and thats where it matters the most, many in the squad should learn from a player like him. He was my choice for captain after RVP left, but I have no problem with Vermaelen being skipper

  26. Theo Walcott

    Love Sagna but he should have known better. Wenger was right to say what he did but i feel there is a level of inconsistency in his behaviour at times. Contrary to the sensationalist Daily Mail-esque headline, Weneger did not give Sagna the green light.

  27. Foreheadinho

    Gambon is surely the biggest moron to ever ‘support’ Arsenal. What an absolute leach. Any more negative and this poor self ordained God would suck himself into the deepest darkest place and never been seen again. A few consecutive wins for Arsenal and it could well happen…

  28. Ritesh

    If someone does not want to stay, dont negotiate with him.

    I have learned that the hard way often from dealing with staff. People want a 20% hike one year to stay, then next year they come in with another offer and you must match it to keep them and so on and so forth.

    Plus they try to become indispensible and rot the team spirit when they can’t get what they want.

    I am with wenger on this one. When you put on the shirt, just shut up and play or walk away.

  29. Bade

    Mayank

    “Bade,Forget the titles we’d won. Most of which were pre-war so can’t even be considered in this evaluation. Tell me if you seriously think that we were on an equal footing with Utd when Arsene came to the club.”

    Hahahaha, That’s hilarious. So basically Mayank looking at the convenient parts of history to suit his agenda

    It’s like me saying: “Mayank, let’s looks at the 70’s & 80’s until 91 & tell me weren’t we 10 times better than Mancs, as we won a double, another 2 titles, one is the biggest ever climax in football history?”

    Or better that that: “Mayank, let’s just deduct the silverware Red Nose won for Mancs from the equation as he’s a one time manager in a life time, irreplaceable, wouldn’t you say we’ve dome much more than Mancs?”

    Meh

    Just for your knowledge Mayank, it was no other than Arsene himself, somewhere in 2002 after we won the double & Red Nose said that the best team didn’t win the title, Arsene mocked Red Nose, and went to say ARSENAL WILL RULE THE PREMIERSHIP FOR THE NEXT DECADE

    Of yes, I still remember that headline. Well, since we won 1 truly glorious title, before Arsene was hit with that unknown disease, dismantled the biggest ever PL side & won us all fuck all, while Red Nose went on to win 5 EPL titles in those 10 years…..

  30. Top Gooner

    Wenger with such comment,tells you all what you need to know that gambon is lord. I really cant figure out between ivan,stan,wenger and phw,who is more useless? Next summer vermaelen will be at city and kozzer and chezzer will be at barca.

  31. Santi Claus

    Wenger dictatorship in effect again. There is nothing wrong with a player wanting a club to win. Wenger just said if you want to criticize then go elsewhere. Does the same apply to us as fans? We have every right to criticize the club top to bottom. The fact is its not losing titles and other trophies, its being so close to winning and then falling short due to ineptitude or frugal dealing in the transfer market. It would be like Usain Bolt slowing down to celebrate in 100 metres and being overtaken., Thats how the last 7 years has made me feel. We have been one decent signing or an organized defense away from a title.

  32. GoonerB

    Pedro, yesterday I read about Wengers comments on Sagna and my take on them was as follows. It seemed to me in the full statement that he was saying that he reminded Sagna that the players at Arsenal should publicly defend the club, which I personally think is fair enough. He also said that Sagna was a committed Arsenal player that was happy at the club and that they would be opening talks on a new contract with him, and that he expected him to stay on at the club.

    There was one part of it where Wenger mentioned that if a player was not happy at a club then he believed that that player should move on and that was what he would say to any player. Although the general statement was largely about Sagna it seemed to me that he was very much talking in general on this point on unhappy players across the board, and was referring to any player at any club and the statement was not specifically aimed at Sagna as a threat. Of course you then get a variety of media outlets twisting this to suit their purpose for negativity with regard to Arsenal with headlines like “Wenger tells Sagna he can go” and “Wenger reads the riot act to Sagna”. It is what I consider lazy and devious journalism from people that love nothing better than to paint our club in a negative light and create a negative media frenzy around the club.

    If I am correct in how I read Wengers comments then I can’t help but think that you have to some degree followed that same negative pathway. Your opening lines indicate that he has rollicked and threatened Sagna and basically shown him the door. If you are able to publish the full statement that AW made and it is indeed more threatening to the playe,r and I am wrong, then I will stand corrected. However if my reading of his words are correct then, as you are a gooner, I don’t know what you were hoping to gain by carefully choosing which parts you used to put across a very negative picture. That is how I read the opening to this post, but once again if I have mis-understood I will hold my hands up.

  33. azed

    Bjonan, Andy
    Why is it only our players that critize the club in public? May be they’ve spoken to club hierarchy in private but them money grabbing cunts only see $$$$$.
    Think about the following players, Viera, Henry, Cesc, Nasri, Rvp and now Sagna. Don’t you think these guys would have spoken with Arsene?

  34. Damian Joyce

    I must admit Pedro, that is the exact same feeling I got when I saw Wenger’s comments re Sagna, and like you, I’m getting tired of this attitude Wenger has where it seems to be “I’m right, you’re all wrong, if I’m not able to manipulate older and top quality players anymore, then I’ll just buy some more inexperienced teenagers and try to teach them I’m right, You will sign a declaration of my thinking, if you are able to think for yourself, then Fuck Off and win your trophies elsewhere thank you, we have Jenkinson, Ramsey and Chamakh waiting to take your places”
    I don’t like the fack Debuchy and Van der Wiel were both available at decent prices this summer and Wenger didn’t move to quash this potential problem, I’m sure Sagna hasn’t been mute all summer up until this interview, all around the club would have been aware of any issues he may have had or still have.

  35. mystic

    Look lets try and be sensible here. In any business if someone is being disruptive the booses will tell them publically to fuck off elsewhere if they don’t like it. Hopefully in the background in reality they are trying to discover what is going on -it matter not if we think he is a cunt, Wenger is not going to publically lose face.

    Gambon I disagree that Arsenal don’t WANT to be at the top, but regards to be prepared to invest in actually doing so, that seems to be abhorent to the guys who hold the purse strings. There is too much finger crossing that it will go wrong elsewhere.

    ‘All you mugs talking about ‘greedy’ RVP, Nasri, Cesc etc have been made to look like right cunts.’
    I still don’t get why people insist in putting players like Nasri and Cesc in the same sentence. Nasri left for money the trophies being a pleasant by product, Cesc left for home and I don’t see how anyone can blame him (he certainly wasn’t greedy) – though he could have had the balls to come out publically and say his DNA was calling him to Catalonia.

    Why the fuck daddy Wengerthought it right to sell his kid Cesc on the cheap is a joke and what is worse if that the tossers on the board allowed it to happen.

  36. HumAnimal

    Andy

    September 14, 2012 10:42:07
    good point but wenger got himself into this mess theres no point to reacting to every little thing that happens in the club as it is all a by product of holding arsenal back.

    If he had kept a philosophy of making stars but also holding on to top players instead of treating them like shit, and ensuring ample back up in all positions and doing what is necessary in a game by game basis to win. we would have won trophies… VP Nasri song cesc hleb clchy would still be at the club and we wouldnt be in this position.

  37. Thorough

    Every player that has spoken against Arsenal’s drive towards mediocrity, curiously our best players including 4 or more past captains, are WRONG. Only Wenger is right. That’s what the wise ones say. Sorry I go with the fools. A million flies cant be wrong, shit must be good. If you think we are doing well as a club then you are a simpleton. Its not even debatable, its sad we even have people entertaining the idea that we are in the right. And those that say players should be discrete and speak in private have you idiots heard the manager listens to no one? Arshavin said it, Van Persie reiterated it. If you have nothing to say do good and shush it.

  38. indian gooner

    Hi guys,
    I agree with Arsene for two reasons.
    a)This season we have seen some change in his attitude( the operative word being some and not “lot”)-like him selling song as soon as he was unsettled.He probably has figured out that if we dont win, most players shall want to leave and therefore theres no point in hanging on to them.We all know how cesc cribbed in his last year.Also he got all his men early before the transfer window closed.

    b)You never criticize the hand that feeds you in public.In any organization u cant talk bad about the CEO/manager in public and get away with it.I back wenger on this firmly. Sagna should have let his feelings known to AW in private than through a newspaper.Likewise the dutch moron who went public with his “differences in direction” BS. He could have just stayed calm and would have been appreciated by the fans for his silence.

    I think we need to get behind the team one last time.This season shall define whether the fans will continue to buy season tickets and merchandise to support the club.Already there are news of a huge number of fans rejecting season tickets.This would not have gone unnoticed by the club.I feel the pressure is on AW to bring silverware.Else hell have to leave -maybe even before his contract expires.We now have Bould to help the defense and also a few good youth players coming through.Jack is back from injury soon and so is frimpong,rosicky and abou. I really hope this will be a great year for us.up the arsenal…

  39. Mayank

    Bade,

    Are you telling me you aren’t willing to concede the Utd were a bigger club than us when Wenger arrived?

    I haven’t asked you to count the titles or disregard them.

    Just this simple question.

    Was Arsenal as big as Utd when Arsene arrived? Even comparable.

    Try not to mention the no of title won and answer the question. Try not to come up with another straw man. Try not to talk about the future or the past from that point on.

    Was Arsenal as big a club as Utd when Arsene arrived? Has he made us a bigger club?

    You don’t even need to back up your answer just yes or no.

  40. gambon

    Sagna: “Boss, can i speak with you please?”

    Wenger: “I only have a few minutes Bacary as im going for a candle lit dinner with Abou”

    Sagna: “I want to know why we keep selling our best players, and replacing with inferior?”

    Wenger: “Youre bre…..breaking up…….cant….hear…..you”

    Sagna: “Boss, we’re not talking on the phone, im in your office”

    Wenger: “You’re a clever one”

    Sagna: “So why are you obsessed with being a cheap cunt, and selling all of the good players”

    Wenger: “I have sold 50000 players, i dont have to explain myself to you”

    Sagna: “You actually have sold 50000, thats the whole fucking problem you unambitious prick”

    Wenger: “You can leave, you will regret it”

    Sagna: “Yeah, like Nasri, Clichy, Henry have”

    Wenger: “Yeah but when was the last time Man City won the balance sheet trophy, eh? when was that? Thats the only thing that matters”

  41. Juju

    Pedro,

    So with your logic of the situation the better players should be given a longer leash in regards of saying what they want.

    All I can say is that this contradicts with your own views. If we want discipline at AFC which we all call for beside other things of course then we need to give the stick to anyone that thinks can go to public and say anything they wish without any consequences.

    AW is right to criticize him and should let him know that bigger players went and he could be on his way too if he doesnt pull it together.

    If he wants to leave fine but be discreet about it. That’s the whole message AFC is trying to communicate with their players.

  42. gambon

    “Was Arsenal as big as Utd when Arsene arrived? Even comparable”

    We werent far off at all. Now we are fucking miles off.

    Did Wenger make us a bigger club, yes, of course, thats irrelevant. You dont pay a manager £8m pa for what he did 10 years ago.

    Do you think Tony Adams should be our captain, and first defender on the team sheet tomorrow? If no, why not? Is he not our best captain ever? Is he not our best defender ever?

  43. naija soccer

    In fairness to Sagna, i m with him on this one. It must be hard having all ur friends leave every year and you having to get used to new players every season. As we all know Sagna is not Walcott, he doesnt run his mouth to the press every chance he gets. Thats frustration talking.

    Footballers have feelings too besides making money. Its difficult having to lose all your friends every year and having to get used to some new player.

  44. gazzap

    Anyone else read this morning that wenger says he feels flattered that Arsenal are Barcelona’s feeder club (I paraphrase) but that was the jist. He thinks it shows we have quality players.
    Er no we dont, they nab all our quality players and leave us with the shit.
    He insults the Arsenal fans on such a regular basis, I wonder why he gets so much support from our the fanbase?

  45. Nathan Dale

    gambon September 14, 2012 11:38:31
    Wenger: “Yeah but when was the last time Man City won the balance sheet trophy, eh? when was that? Thats the only thing that matters”

    Haha Gambon!
    We’re going to win the “World Club Ballance Sheet Trophy” this year!!!

  46. Santi Claus

    Wenger in essence just arrived at the right time. He added what was to become members of the best national team France to the second best defense in the world. He tweaked a great team with a bit of French style, being French helped that. Denis was already there as was Wrighty and buying players was easier as we had a great team already and he had inside knowledge. But what has he done when everyone overtook him and his amazing coaching/ scouting, nothing because he can not evolve any further and hes lost touch with today’s reality. I know I have belittle his accomplishments but you are judged on your last trophy, Fergie knows this and that is why hes bought RVP he needs to go out on a high and not be remembered for losing the EPL title to ManC

  47. Mayank

    Gambon,

    The argument I’m having with Bade isn’t about the present. Of course it’s debatable whether Wenger’s the man for the job any more or not.

    But to say that we were knocked from 2nd over to 3rd BECAUSE of Wenger is daft. If it wasn’t for him SAF would’ve still broken PL transfer records and won at least as many titles.

    To blame Wenger for Utd’s dominance rather than praise SAF for it is about the most vindictive thing I’ve read on here. Apart from not acknowledging that during the first 7 years of Wenger’s reign we’re the most dominant we’d ever been since the war.

    If you disagree with the crux of what I’m saying here you’re just as vindictive.

  48. K.C.

    LMFAO @ somebody suggesting Sagna is worried about his place in the line-up because of Jenkinson. Sagna spoke the truth, and the truth is not welcome by Lord Wenger. Free speech isn’t afforded by the ruthless dictator these days. It’s get on board for a top 4 finish or fuck off in Wenger’s mind. How dare a player think of his personal ambitions on this team. Wenger is a lunatic.

  49. Santi Claus

    Gone are the days when Arsene Wenger can sign or keep a player because of who he is. He could do this with the French Nationals but no more and his I am Arsene Wenger didn ‘t work with Benzema and didnt keep Nasri. It would have done if they had been around 10 years ago. He will not accept this and can not cope, its head in the sand time. He needs to accept that money and winning is all that talks in modern football.

  50. gambon

    Mayank

    We had the opportunity to do our own Man Utd/Liverpool, but we didnt for 2 reasons:

    1- Wenger is a born loser and cant get teams over the line often enough
    2- After 2004 the club decided profits were the important thing, and basically retreated into their shell never to compete again.

    There are many teams in the world that cant compete, the difference is we are a team that dont want to compete.

    Of course Fergie is the key to UTD success, rather than Wenger being to blame, but Arsenal under wenger will always be a case of what might have been.

  51. ikon

    Well Sagna said what he had to, and Wenger came out and said the things he had to.

    Nothing changes after these talks.

    The board will not offer him a new contract at this age, and Wenger in a way is right in putting his feet down on these things which if encouraged will mean there will be another player openly threatening to quit if not offered a contract.

    Jenkinson is doing ok till now, and probably will succeed Sagna at that position. If Sagna has to play at this club he has to take whatever comes his way in terms of contracts.

  52. Song's Golf Shoes

    Gambon have you actually ever worked for a half decent company at the top end of anything, ever? The strangest thing about you is there is sometimes a small shred of sense in maybe one sentence per rant.

    At the end of the day Bac has been injured for half a year in the last year. He’s sat there watching us not concede a goal so far, the only team to do so, and he’s publicly having a dig. Now I have no problems whatsoever with someone like Coquelin showing a bit of ambition and saying ‘look, if I don’t get games soon then my international career is dead – play me or I’ll go elsewhere’ – that shows he cares.

    But when our defence is doing as well as it has and Sagna’s had fuck all to do with it, and will no doubt play far worse than Jenko for his first 2 or 3 games when he comes back, just like last time he came back, he was fucking terrible for 3 games, and he’s sitting there calling the club out, what a bellend.

    It has fuck all to do with him why we sold Song. Song was the worst midfielder we have ever based a team around and believe me we had to last season. He was capable of being one of our best players but ended up being our biggest liability. He had to go and now our team is so so good and balanced. May not be quite as strong as we want but with that one sale we have killed about 3 birds.

    For Sagna to come out and say ‘We all knew RVP was going’ has TOTALLY undermined what Wenger told the fans for an entire year. You think Wenger will be happy with that? No, Sagna needs to remember who he reports to.

    I am not saying he is wrong in his thoughts at all, except about Song, because he is. But let’s be very very realistic here, Sagna is fucking shite going forward, he is useless. 3 Good crosses per season does not an attacking wing back make, end of story. He has zero cehesion with Theo, never plays him through, never beats a defender, never takes it into the box, never gets goals and never gets assists. He is just a superb defender. Coquelin is far better going forward than Sagna. Theo might get a lot more goals or assists if Sagna didn’t chose to ignore his run EVERY time.

    So as far as I am concerned Sagna needs to stfu and respect the club he plays for. If he wants to go then fine. Our attack has been utterly fruitless with him in the side down the right and we’ve won nothing with him at the club. There’s anew generation coming through.

    No player should be calling out their manager’s decision in public. Doesn’t matter if he is right, doesn’t matter is his words are factual, of if he is just being honest and didn’t mean any harm – he needs to watch his mouth, respect his paymasters and focus on his game. 3 games in, no goals conceded, all arsenal fans are happy but SAGNA, the fucking injured guy, has something to say? Sorry, he can stfu.

    If he wants to go, let him, we won nothing with him whatsoever. He can take Theo and we will move on, these players are just bad seeds. This league is fucking competitive and he has far more chance of winning something elsewhere. Anyway for me, when the league’s ‘best’ right back is being dicked on by Voctor Moses all game, the writing’s on the wall I’m afraid.

  53. naija soccer

    Santi Claus

    Our lack of trophy has nothing to do with Wenger losing his edge, mojo or whatever. Its simply because we havent had the right players in the last few seasons. As good as Wenger is , he isnt gonna win the league when u have players like Denilson, Younger Song, Almunia, Eboue etc playing at key positions.
    counterparts in rival teams. U can blame the Wenger

  54. gambon

    HAHAHA

    Songs golf shoes

    I work for a company that absolutely dwarf Arsenal FC.

    I know exactly what its like to work for a major company, and exactly how important it is to retain top talent and pay the best salaries out there.

    My company dont do that, hence an exodus of talent.

  55. naija soccer

    Arguably u can blame Wenger for not having the right players but u cant say he has lost it or whatever. Even Barca/Real have to buy the right players to stay afloat each other every year.

  56. Mayank

    Gambon,

    After 2004 we set out to build a stadium which befits a big club and in the process lost our edge on the field.

    I agree that if we’d continued strongly after 04 we’d have done much better in comparison to Utd. But building the stadium was seen as a must so we didn’t. I can see the reasoning behind it, without a stadium we’d never be able to buy a Rio, Rooney or Veron(happily). The fact that we aren’t now either is what’s worrying. Well at least we can handle 100m+ wage bill unlike Liverpool despite their global presence.

    However, the only reason we were in a position to challenge Utd for the biggest club in England till 04 was Wenger. That is the only point I was trying to make.

  57. Matthew Thomas

    No wonder our best players leave, No trophys, No money spent, Low pay and now apprantly we are run like a north korean gulag where you always have to defend the company or you are forced to leave.

    The club is rotten.

  58. gambon

    As for your pathetic Sagna vs Jenkinson comparisons,

    Who exactly played right back when we got beaten 8-2 at Old Trafford?

    Answer that one please.

  59. gambon

    “But building the stadium was seen as a must so we didn’t. I can see the reasoning behind it, without a stadium we’d never be able to buy a Rio, Rooney or Veron(happily)”

    Haha, yep thats the reason we built it.

    Just like we went into Iraq to find WMDs.

  60. Santi Claus

    naija soccer September 14, 2012 12:09:35

    Our lack of trophy has nothing to do with Wenger losing his edge, mojo or whatever. Its simply because we havent had the right players in the last few seasons. As good as Wenger is , he isnt gonna win the league when u have players like Denilson, Younger Song, Almunia, Eboue etc playing at key positions.
    counterparts in rival teams. U can blame the Wenger

    Wengers dream and lack of conviction are the very reason he signed those players and gave them extended contracts and for that he is to blame. He bought these players because his mojo failed, he could no longer attract great players because they wanted to play for Arsene Wenger. He tried to get kids and convince them to play of pretend to himself they were great.
    You pay peanuts. Average players can not be made great by Arsene Wenger Great players can be made better and therefore taken away.

  61. Matthew Thomas

    @Mayank

    Building a new stadium hasn’t benifited anyone except for a few shareholders that got rich by extracting all the equity from the club.

    What has the Emirates done for the fans ?

    Prices have gone through the roof, The fragmentation of the fanbase with the numerous levels of membership is disgusting and we haven’t won anything since we left Highbury.

    They should never have built it, If Arsenal fans now have to be content with watching mediocrity then we shouldn’t have to pay through the nose to do it and Arsenal should drop all the BS about being an ambitious club because its evident to everyone but the foolish that the only ambition Arsenal has is to extract as much money from the fans as possible.

  62. bankz

    Gambon works for a company that absolutely dwarfs ARSENAL FC……HYFR!

    Right or wrong,an employee never runs his mouth in the press and expects a tap on the back……Sagna inclusive.
    I can’t remember any player doing same and receiving a medal for it be it Utd,city,spurs,liverpool or even the damn head-cracker Joey Barton…..doesn’t matter how accurate & true such comments are!!

  63. Mayank

    Well, our wage bill has doubled since the stadium. So you can’t say we didn’t put any stadium money into the team.

    It’s been disappointing though.

    When the financial restraints due to the stadium were put on I gave it till 2010 in my mind before we start buying seriously again. It seemed a long enough time back then. At around 2010 I realised how bad the deals we’d gotten into were. Necessary or not.

  64. Larry

    For those of you criticizing Wenger and praising Sagna for going to the press, I have a poser for you. How many of you will go to the press and criticize your employers? If you do that, I can assure you the sack letter will be dropping into your post the next day. Why should AFC be different? If you can not table your greviances and subsequently resolve same with your employers, then you have the option of leaving. Sagna Bacary was simply out of order here.

  65. Iffy da Goon

    IMO any player who speaks out at Arsenal has already made up his mind to leave. Pity for sagna as his decision may have come a bit late in his career but he’s still the best rb in the league. I’m still thinking 15m to city in january though

  66. naija soccer

    Santi Claus

    Thats bullshit and you know it. Wenger is one of the most respected managers in the world. Most world class players would love to play for him. Unfortunately, world class players cost 150k and up in present day market. We both know Arsenal dont pay that kinda money. Thats what the issue is not wenger lacking dream or conviction.

  67. Iceman

    Okay Okay….alota folks saying Wenger must go……please tell me who can replace him? Please tell me which manager can make top four every year with a mediocre team and strict budget and a boardroom full of cunts?

  68. Santi Claus

    New Stadium was meant to add revenue to buy players. The club has in the main lost its identity and is behind teams like Man U and Chelsea who have not bought a new stadium and ManC who do not own their Stadium?
    Arsenal has and new Stadium so we are in a League with Bolton Wigan Southampton. What is AFCs plan what are the advantages of the stadium. If financial fair play comes in how will it help… Explain? If we are now going to push on and season ticket holders are going to pay through the nose for tickets and beer etc it must be for major new signing right? We shall see.

  69. gambon

    At highbury we had Henry on £100k pw, Vieria on £90k pw.

    We have no-one on these figures now.

    So id be very suspicious of where these huge increases in the wage bill has come from.

    Gazidis earns £2m pa, Wenger £7.5m, we have brought a team of unemployed yanks in to the commercial department, i’d imagine they earn more than £30k pa.

    So as has been pointed out, the move has done nothing for the football club at all.

  70. Mayank

    Matthew Thomas,

    The only shareholders who’ve gotten rich are the one’s who’ve sold their shares.

    The current shareholders don’t get a dividend.

    The other North London club charges almost the same money to see an inferior team in an inferior stadium. If you think staying at Highbury would’ve mean lower ticket pirces than Spurs you’re wrong.

  71. Song's Golf Shoes

    Gambon don’t worry, I do find the exodus very very worrying, and aside from all the swearing, calling us cunts, constant ‘I’m right you’re wrong’ BS, I actually do agree with some of your sentiments.

    Wenger must be mad if he expects players or fans to be happy with the way things are done, and nobody is. Is it any coincidence the average age of the squad is less than it’s ever been, for about the last 6 years, which directly coincides with us selling our best players? No, because the older ones will want out and the younger ones will be grateful they got picked. Putty in Wenger’s hands. But I do feel that to an extent Wenger’s hands are tied and I definitely feel that with a new manager nothing would change at all.

    Ok so tactically we might get someone with half a brain or someone who knows how not to sub our best player off just because he’s 18 even though he’s stronger than most people 6 years older, and it would be great if we had a manager who picked players based on talent not seniority alone… but if you or anyone else thinks the club would change the way it does things because Wenger got he sack then you are just plain MENTAL.

    I am sure you know how the club is run and I am sure you can understand if the board wanted things done a certain way, or wanted to sign certain players, or wanted to spend the entire transfer budget in a bid to win something, they would. We have commercial deals up for renewal for 2014 and we aren’t set to win anything between now and then – I believe that’s a sarcastic one point to the board of economists who have missed the entire concept of commercial revenue. We will not offered anything better than what we have now if we can’t show we’re on track to winning anything. FFP is set up to have no impact whatsoever for anyone other than small clubs, who will simply be able to spend even less than they do already. And our club is going to be in no stronger a position in 3 years than it is now. We’re like the goody two shoes in school who thought he did everything right and ended up no being picked for head boy because he just didn’t have enough going for him, we’re like the league’s equivalent of the most narrow-minded private school thinking it is truly revolutionary when in actual fact they have issues getting to grips with reality, landing funding from anywhere other than the pupils (fans) and they’re stuck in the dark ages.

    Sacking Wenger will not change that mate. Sadly, it just won’t. We might get someone like Klopp or Lowe, they’ll come in, try and do their thing, publicly slate the club, and get sacked. And here would begin our decline. I appreciate Wenger is the marmite of football managers but I actually sit on the fence….all I do know is nothing would change if he left. Nothing. So why keep calling for his head when he is the best manager in the world who is prepared to take silence pay and work for a club who is not prepared to make the most of the resources they have i.e. the manager?

  72. Santi Claus

    naija soccer September 14, 2012 12:29:11

    Thats bullshit and you know it. Wenger is one of the most respected managers in the world. Most world class players would love to play for him. Unfortunately, world class players cost 150k and up in present day market. We both know Arsenal dont pay that kinda money. Thats what the issue is not wenger lacking dream or conviction.

    The lack of conviction has come from not be able to compete because the name is not working to sign and keep players as I said. Respect doesnt pay the bills and recently win trophies.. As I said in modern football Arsene Wenger has been left behind because in the main money talks as do trophies and he can not offer both as of late.

  73. arsenal4ever

    always said Wenger is the problem. He even thinks when barca buying our best players its a good sign. What a fucking joke this old senile bastard is. He acts like a dictator. If someone doesnt agree with him he has to feel Wengers boot for kicking out!!! We are one injury away to see the enigma Chamakh again. We playing with 1 real striker. This club isnt my Arsenal anymore. Board, Wenger, IG all should fuck off. Usmanov already will buy 8 more shares this week. Time for a takeover and an owner who tells Wenger to buy or to fuck off.

  74. peanuts&monkeys

    Golf Shoes<

    you are as senile as your idol – Captain Wenger. You say, "down the right and we’ve won nothing with him at the club. There’s anew generation coming through."?

    Is Sagna to blame for Wenger not winning a trophy for 7 seasons???? Has someone given you the free right to write any shit just because its free here? You say, " all the fans are happy????" You are a loser like Wenger, you fucking creepy AKB!!!! Or are Wenger himself, the selfish bastard?

  75. Maverick

    On the Sagna matter, Wenger is damned if he reacted; damned if he didn’t react. The moment Sagna went to press with the issue, however relevant, the current reaction is the only possible outcome. If Wenger didn’t react, then everyone would start saying that he is not strong enough to rein in players or is not in control. If he reacted, then he isn’t saying the correct things. I am sure no one expected Wenger to come out and say ‘Yeah. Sagna is correct. We sold our best players’.

  76. gambon

    Songs golf shoes

    I do agree, it isnt just the manager, ive said many times its a perfect marriage.

    But Wenger for me is a scumbag as he lies to the fans yearly. There are untold managers out there that will publicly say they have no money, or no top players will be coming in.

  77. Iceman

    We sold players who wanted to leave…….no use having a world class player who doesn’t wanna play……..

    I mean look at Spurs……Arry done a good job and they sacked him to get AVB…..seriously? I must admit that I feel we can win the title this season…..I haven’t felt this way in a long time……..and alota other supporters feel the same way…….who can deny that feeling?

  78. Santi Claus

    If Wenger had Usmanov David Dein behind him and could work his old mojo and concentrate on coaching as with pre 2004 Arsene then yes he may be the man. but now hes too ingrained and too political this was not the winning Arsene Wenger we used to have.

  79. Bade

    Mayank

    Sorry I was out

    But we were in the same caliber as Mancs. Of course.

    They were better in Europe because then won the Champions cup (CL old format), but we had the same titles won ,10 each.

  80. Mayank

    Right now Henry would be earning 200k and Vieira at least 150k.

    There is no way that was affordable staying in Highbury.

    The obvious question is why aren’t we paying that much now? And it looks like we’ve decided to spread the wealth in the wage bill rather than have a few top earners. Not a brilliant strategy in my book, since top players are priceless.

    We’ll have to wait and see if we ever pay that much to any player, right now no-one in the squad deserves it. Robin did and he decided to leave.

  81. azed

    Song’s golf shoes

    For Sagna to come out and say ‘We all knew RVP was going’ has TOTALLY undermined what Wenger told the fans for an entire year. You think Wenger will be happy with that? No, Sagna needs to remember who he reports to.
    ——————————————————————————-
    Haha you are blaming Sagna for saying the truth?
    We seriously need to check the mental state of AKB’s….

    Last time i checked, Sagna was a great defender and his work is to defend 1st anything else is a bonus.

  82. Bade

    Mayank

    What did you mean by this?

    “Was Arsenal as big as Utd when Arsene arrived? Even comparable.Try not to mention the no of title won and answer the question. Try not to come up with another straw man. Try not to talk about the future or the past from that point on.”

    How would we judge them then?

  83. Gunner2301

    Bjonan 10:41 LMFAO are you for real?

    Andy 10:42 what else could Wenger come out and say?

    Maybe – “I don’t understand what Bacary is saying we have a team that can challenge and compete with the best teams, we have an environment that caters to the needs of ambitious players so they have no neeed to leave?”

    He can’t because none of this is true.

    I stand by Sagna another player pointing out the fundamental issues that are holding the Club back.

    I agree with you in an ideal world players should not come out and say things, however :-

    1. Wenger has fostered a culture where players have been able to come out and say things without sanction, think Bendtner, Lehman, Gallas, Viera and others. Wenger is not a strong manager like Red Nose, players know that and when you’re not strong, players can’t see where the line is drawn. Wengers fault for not drawing the line and maintaining discipline within the team.

    2, Arsenal is such a fucked up Club in terms of how they are contradictory and keep the fans in the dark, It needs players like Sagna, RVP and others to come out and tell us what’s going on because otherwise the Club will lie to us. Sorry but that’s the reality.

    Pedro on your article, What I’d like to know is how Arsene can say to Nik Bendtner who openly came out and said he would never play for Arsenal ever again that he could have a place back in the squad next season as if he was only sent out on loan to gain experience and develop, then says this on the other hand: –

    “And if he is not completely happy with it, then he has to go somewhere else. That is what I say to everybody.”

    WENGER IS A FUCKING LIAR AGAIN! – WENGER OUT !

  84. arsenal4ever

    Wow is Iceman a troll. Saying he is no AKB but then writting down Wenger is the best out there. Wow this place used to be AKB free.

  85. marcus

    There is a difference between supporting Arsenal and supporting Arsene. Supporting a club does not imply that you have to agree with everything surrounding it. You don’t have to like the current staff, or any current player for that matter. To say that anyone who criticizes Wenger is not an Arsenal supporter is just retarded.

    Supporting a club is about loving it’s history, it’s present and it’s future. In this essence the present is just a snapshot of what the club is. The reason why people are frustrated is that they love the history, dislike the present and fear for the future. That is not building blocks for a healthy club.

  86. Gunner2301

    Gambon

    Henry was paid 10mill in his last season (by some deviated means) Cesc was offered the same deal to stay.

    The Club can pay those amounts and do but only if the player has threatened to leave and it’s a sweetner to keep them. That’s why I don’t believe RVP was ever made an offer otherwise he”d be on close to what he’s on at Man U. I reckon he’d seen the bullshit repeated over so many years and decided I’d rather take my chances of winning something with United.

    For those who thinks he left purely for money, look at the Henry and Cesc deals they were paid big money, so he could have had a similar deal, but it doesn’t replace winning a trophy in the end and that’s what RVP realised and fucked off without wasting his breath trying to negotiate with the idiots at the Emirates.

  87. Mayank

    Bade,

    Which was the bigger club? Easy.

    Who paid higher salaries? Which was better know around the world? Which had more money? Who had won more in the last 20 years? Who had the bigger stadium?

    When Arsene arrived, before his first full year, Utd had won 4 out of the last 5 PL titles. To then say Arsene was on a equal footing with SAF or Arsnal with Utd is preposterous. They were utterly dominating. The overall titles won are irrelevant to this discussion.

    That’s like saying Leeds Utd and Blackburn are on equal footing with Chelsea since they’ve won the same number of titles in their history. You have to look at momentum.

    To reiterate, before Arsene’s first full year, SAF’s Utd had won 4 of the last PL titles. They also had the best youth teams ever on the way. Yet you’re blaming them overtaking us on the man that made us the most dominant we’ ever been in 50 years?

  88. Bade

    Mayank

    for the sake of my sanity please stop blaming the “Stadium” for all of our misery. It’s Arsene’s fault, maybe with a joint responsibility of the board & owners

    1. since 2004 we are reporting net profits. NET PROFITS. That means we spent less than we earned.

    2. since 2008 to say the least, we had enough money to spend. That’s what Alex Fynn said

    3. Mind you we moved to a nigger stadium in order to be able compete with the big spenders

    3. in the last 7 seasons & more, we’re making profits in the transfer windows. That means we’re selling more than we’re buying. Now let’s assume Arsene had only 20m this summer, as Pedro said in one of his posts. We made a 5 million profit in the transfer window, that means Arsene willingly didn’t spend 25m we could have used, at least for another back up midfielder, striker &/or defender.

    People should stop fooling themselves. When a team makes money in the transfer window, that means this team’s ambition is down to money, not sporting achievements. Hence why the profits made in the transfer market aren’t reinvested in the side.

    Let’s not blame sugar daddies or financial prudence here. We’re having the 4th biggest wage bill in the EPL. We’re paying/payed shite players 40-60k a week, where most of them would get near half of it at any other respectable club. We’re charging our fans with highest tickets but serving them nothing really.

    If Arsene reinvested each penny he had under his disposal at players (by this I mean buying top players, not giving shite like Djourou & co pay raises & contract extensions), then I’d reconsider my views on him. But he didn’t & still doesn’t do that

    Only this summer he had 20 + 5 at least & he didn’t bring players, because he’s gambling our season on the fitness of Diaby, om Jenko coming good, on Le Coq stepping up his game & on Chamakh scoring more than 1 goal in 4o games

    It’s just cheer madness & we will fuck this season up, make no mistake

  89. Gunner2301

    arsenal4ever

    Why do you think that is? and why has the Club knowing this is the case not taken steps to address this problem?

  90. Gunner2301

    Bade

    “moved to a “nigger” stadium?

    I agree totally with what you’re saying and not lets forget the property money that has been stashed away also.

  91. arsenal4ever

    gunner2301 cause since moving to emirates the only objective is now getting into top4 for making most of money. Give me a proof its not the case. They make each window a profit but charging fans with highest ticket prices. Something not right here. And dont tell me the bollocks debts have to be payed. There arent a lot left now. Also Kroenke is known in USA not caring on titles at all. Time to get Usmanov in. Iam not all for a sugar daddy but Kroenke is the worst dissinteressted owner ever.

  92. Bade

    Mayank

    So now at least you agree we were in the same caliber but they were just a bit ahead?

    Because now they’re miles ahead. And it’s not only down to Red Nose’s brilliance (which he is, sadly), but also down to us under performing.

    Let’s compare the 2 phases of 8 years each of Arsene with us

    When Arsene 1st came, this was the situation
    Liverpool, 18 titles
    Mancs, 10 titles
    Arsenal, 10 titles

    In Arsene’s 1st 8 seasons, until the 2004 season (included), this was the count
    Liverpool, 18 titles
    Mancs, 15 titles
    Arsenal, 13 titles

    So Mancs pulled away 5-3 on titles, but they were still within a reach & not far off, in spire of Red Nose brilliance, and also notable that we closed the gap on the leader, liverpool

    But since, the situation has totally changed

    Mancs, 19 titles
    Liverpool, 18 titles
    Arsenal, 13 titles

    Since 2004 it’s a knock out of 4-0 to Mancs, and we have to thank the gods of football that QPR guaranteed their league position in the last 15 minutes, allowing $ity to claim the title last season, otherwise it was even worse

    So, from 3-5, we went to 0-4, & in both teams we’re talking about the same managers. Oh, & not that we were richer before 2005 …..

    The only explanation is a serious dip in form from Arsene, while Red Nose maintained his absolutely magnificent run, with a slight dip in form, going from 5 titles in 8 seasons, to 4 in the last 8. While Arsene went from winning 3 titles in 8 seasons, to 0 in the next 8.

    So this you can’t really defend

  93. Kripakar Marur

    It boils down to this:

    If Wenger is not given funds, then I back him as a manager. Now people might say he should say so and quit his job. Well he is no saint and there is nothing wrong in toeing the party line when it pays 7 million. But I repeat, if he didn’t have funds, he is doing a damn good job.

    If he has funds, and is not spending it, he should not be given a new contract as Arsenal is not a research lab for an egomaniac.

  94. Mayank

    Bade,

    I never agreed we were just a bit ahead.

    They’d won 2 back to backs with a 1 years gap when we arrived. Something we haven’t done even once since the 30s. I don’t think you realise how far back in history that is and how much importance you’re giving to it.

    We might’ve been competitive on the pitch after Wenger came, but we’ve never been as big as Utd after SAF arrived. Not in terms of money, global fame or titles.