5 years old today! Also co-incidentally, it’s the mental age of some of Talk Sports finest!

by & filed under News Review.

Thanks to @Fredisdead for this

So today Grovers we are 5 years old, big landmark for a blog, we are sometimes seen as anti Arsene, but let’s not forget this blog was named Le-Grove as a tribute to the French influence and the first post I wrote was congratulating our manager signing an extension to his contract.

So this blog was actually very pro-Wenger. Unfortunately it was also started at the beginning of what I see as a rebuilding exercise, that rebuilding exercise is tediously still going on and that is why I get so fed up with the management, and why sometimes we are seen as anti-Wenger.

For instance the day before yesterday PHW reminded us that our manager went to Strasbourg Uni and is no fool, well we know he’s no fool as he earns £7mil a year, but to continually remind us of Leeds, Pompey and now Glasgow Rangers is treating us like fools.

Thing is in football, teams get prize money and sponsorship money, they use this to build their teams, turnover at the ground takes care of the rest, so teams have a duty to use that money wisely.

If you have a transfer budget to spend on players and don’t use it, that does nothing to improve financial fair play, that only makes the balance sheet look better, it weakens rather than strengthens the team and for me that’s not clever, that’s pretty stupid.

If PHW wants to brag about Arsene’s degree in economics, he should explain why we have players like Denilson, Bendtner, Park, Chamakh, Squillaci and Arshavin all still on the books because no one can afford to buy them. Why? Because we pay them way too much.

Moving on, we were superb against Liverpool and Diaby had a blinder, we have always said  on here that Diaby was a talented player, me I have always seen him as another Vieira, not a YaYa, but our concern has been his injury record and does 6 years of big wages warrant a handful of top performances, I think not, but if he has finally come out of the woods and we can see a season’s worth of games for him then I will be delighted.

That all said, our starting 11 is a match for anyone this season, that has never been an issue, Cazorla (not Carzola Jamie Redknapp) is a cracking player, him with Arteta, Diaby and soon to be Jack Wilshere will be a thing of beauty.

Podolski with Gervinho as back up will be incisive and I really believe that Giroud will be a big player for us, he looks the part and once he bangs them in, he won’t stop, Ok I know a lot won’t agree, but this guy ticks all the boxes for me.

So what was I moaning about? Well the same as I have been for the last 7 years, another 2 or 3 quality players and we would beat anyone, we didn’t need a £50million player as PHW mentions, we just needed a couple of decent additions, we had the money but chose not to spend it, and that for me is not smart.

Ask Cazorla, Robin or Cesc, I think you’ll find they all agree with me.

Onto my cover story about the muppets on Talk Shite. I’m listening to a programme yesterday afternoon and a fat half witted scouser pronounces Giroud- Gir rude, plank. Great start.

Then him and his sidekick started rubbishing Arsenal and our players and saying we had no chance of getting Cesc back. Even though apparently we have a first option buy back clause.

I find it amazing that anyone who used to be in sports gets themselves a job on that radio station no matter what they’ve done in life, they have misogynists, doggers, women beaters, has been cricketers and overweight second rate footballers, they are all just self opinionated puffed up tossers.

Some of them think you can only have an opinion on football if you were yourself a professional player, they have no idea that many of us would have killed to have been footballers but didn’t get the breaks they did.

Then they earn more money than their intelligence would ever merit in the real world and when they finish their careers and they get jobs in the media, none of them have ever really worked for a living.

Training a couple of days then playing at the weekend isn’t work, I used to train twice a week once for my football club and once for my boxing club, and when we had a match we paid subs, the rest of the week I worked. Not playing golf on charity days, that’s not work.

Name me an EPL manager that ever had to work again after he’d been sacked? I also wonder how many ex footballers have ever paid to watch a game in their lives?

None of them are really in the real world, none of them.

And why is it that they always refer to themselves as big this or big that and not fat this or fat that? Which is what most of them are.

In the old days players finished their careers and got boozers, like Frank did, or became mini-cab drivers like Peter Storey, or even suit case thieves like David Hillier.

Not the new breed though, that fat dipstick scouser gets a mike in his hand, blows smoke up Liverpool or Newcastle’s rear end and spends his day slagging off all things Arsenal.

Then they said yesterday that Harry Redknapp said Theo would make a good centre forward, I have been saying that for years twits and they also said that Chamberlain was crap against Liverpool and he was getting too big for his boots.

Whilst I agree that giving Alex a massive new shiny contract is as pointless as was giving Cesc an 8 year one, I think we ought to wait until the end of this season before we start to throw money at him.

Finally to those know-it-alls on Talk Shite, the only reason we wouldn’t get Cesc back is Arsene Wenger. I would love him back, it would send out a message, I also think that Barca would let him go as they are potless. He would never go to another EPL team.

If you want to comment on the reasons you hate Arsenal so much, engage online and see how your opinion holds out, don’t sit at your desks like a couple of Microphone heroes, man up or shut up.

Anyway today is all about you bloggers, we are one of the biggest blogs in blogland but wouldn’t be without you . Le Grove is one of the best places to talk Arsenal and regardless of your opinion, there’s always a place in our comments to air it.

Keep it up because we are going nowhere, we will continue to give you inside info as and when we get it , continue to write posts when there is no news and no doubt continue to say what we believe in that isn’t always mainstream.

From Pedro you get the balanced view and from me you get the sledgehammer! Thanks for reading!

[twitter-follow screen_name=’LeGrove’ show_count=’yes’]

Have a great day Grovers, we really appreciate your company!

435 Responses to “5 years old today! Also co-incidentally, it’s the mental age of some of Talk Sports finest!”

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  1. IvoryGoonz

    Geoff: exactly. to me, it’s like a masseur claiming he’s a great chiropractor…
    at the same time coming from a half-presient, I’m not surprised.
    the only economist with business acumen is Usmanov. numbers talk for him.
    and still, just plain bs, we need a football manager, not a fuckin penny counting ace-hole

  2. fanboy

    Some ‘fans’ have started treating Sagna like RVP and the rest. Greedy cunt who is ‘always injured’ and is afraid that Jenkinson will take his starting spot. Haha, so pathetic

  3. scott

    Why do people not understand the board and arsene are trying to make a fool of us. Every transfer we lose players and buy new players, the idea is to compete only for CL spot. The ambition is very clear. Arsene knew robin wud leave and hence got podolski and giroud in. Do you think if RVP stayed, these 2 wud not have joined. Since he bought in Cazorla, he let Song go. So there is no question of Arsenal ever showing ambition to win the league or challenge any trophies as 4th place is a trophy. Why did Wenger lie that he was still trying to get few more players in on deadline day when he knew very well that the books were balanced for this year. Its a good con job. PHW mentioned that we cannot spend 50M on 1 player, who is demanding to spend 50M on a player, when we can very well buy at the same price at which you sell a player. When you sell you expect more and when you buy you expect cheap, this does not work in football. If Arsenal was ambitious they could have got Hazard or mata(last season not gervino). They can afford to opt for gervino and chamakh coz the ambition is 4th place, even if we do not make it 4th, the board is not worried as mentioned last year as they take this eventuality into place by ensuring there is excess left over post spending.

  4. IvoryGoonz

    fanboy: we know the score don’t worry.
    our best defender of the last 10 year is getting sold, fans made believe that it’s his fault, and Wenger, Kroenke and the likes get away with it…
    great…

  5. Matchy

    @GeoffSeptember 6, 2012 11:43:44

    Morning all, someone asked if he were still banned after 5 years, today is international amnesty day!Ha, ha Matchy, didn’t Wenger sell him with 3 years left on his contract 20% cheaper too?Bud good to see you are still alive!

    keeping myself alive and fit to make a special appearance for legrove 5th bd bash.

    yes wenger sold him cos fabby went on a hunger strike to go back to his home town. the fact is these days players are bigger than the club. even man city had to let tevy come back to the team after italian make all the big fuss about tev.

    how can u get rid of players who earns $250k with 4 years left on his contract and cost $40m for the club.

    wenger would buy back fabby in an instant if he cost around $20m. no problem. but if the team wins the league with current player would afc need fabby thats the point …. but the team has moved on, wenger would prefer gotze then fabby.

  6. fanboy

    IvoryGoonz
    September 6, 2012 11:58:15
    fanboy: we know the score don’t worry.
    our best defender of the last 10 year is
    getting sold…

    Bullsh*t! Vermaelen has alwasy been our best defender.

    And when its his turn to get sold, koscielny has always been the best. Oh! we are selling kozzer? Er, well…djourou has been…

    Sheep, all of them

  7. Inter YourGran

    Many happy returns Le Grove. Geoff, Pedro & The usual suspects it’s been a pleasure….

    Tip, Top Post Bear as per usual…

    I don’t know why people bother listening to Talksport. They take the piss out of Arsenal because a section of the fan base are hyper sensitive and we’re one of the most supported and talked about clubs in the media…

    The fact they said Ox had a shocker against Liverpool is a perfect example. He was disciplined and did a great job for the team. But, as he didn’t go on about a dozen mazy runs and bag a goal he was shit obviously 🙄

    Talksport is a full on muppet radio show. Muppet presenters (the lot of them) talking with bouncing heads about bullox and muppet callers carrying on like a frustrated housewife to her best mate on the phone. It’s like listening visually to an episode of Fraggle Rock only, it’s nowhere near as entertaining.

  8. cowleygooner

    Happy B’Day LeGrove.
    The MUST-READ blog for any Arsenal fan.
    I read every day and will continue to do so for as long as you keep writing.
    Enjoy the Peroni fest tonight! 🙂

  9. mystic

    JamalSeptember 6, 2012 12:03:20
    ‘So Sagna is gonna leave next season on a free. Pure cunts running the club’

    Come the end of the season he still has 12 months to run, so I would imagine the club will try during this season to tie him down, or flog him next summer.

  10. Stan Donkey

    Thanks Gambon,

    I agree it makes little sense to pay the fixed bond early, but neither does sitting on £200m!

    It was the only possibility I could think of to justify the clubs actions.

    Just out of curiosity, why do you think the floating is being repaid interest only? Anything to do with the IR swap?

  11. Bade

    marxdrive

    You totally misunderstood what I meant

    Even if there going to be EPL FFP own rules, they will be easily bypass

    You don’t seriously think the EPL will let the biggest club just fade away due to principles

    Modern football all based about money. It’s a sad fact, but it’s a fact

    So mostly those rules are hypocrite, and they still won’t change that much. Surely not for the big clubs.

    Exactly just as tax ruling usually hurt the ordinary people & not the super wealthy ones, those rules will eventually kill the smaller clubs & will hardly affect the big sharks

    If you want to change something really, go and cancel the Capitalism setup, but apart from me, who wants to?

  12. chopper4001

    Happy Birthday LG. An excellent blog. I didn’t think you guys would be able to post everyday during the summer, but there you were, every single day. Good work gentlemen.

    Any critiscm levelled at you is only from people who dont “get” the website, especially the comments. While I think the comments section needs to be toned down sometimes, people flying off in all directions makes this place unique.

    Haven’t read any of the comments yet, but if we let Sags run down his contract it will be a travesty. The guy should have been chained to the floor.

  13. mystic

    BadeSeptember 6, 2012 12:24:05
    ‘Even if there going to be EPL FFP own rules, they will be easily bypass

    You don’t seriously think the EPL will let the biggest club just fade away due to principles’

    Citeh might be the richest, but as thing stand Utd are the biggest. It is for that reason if it is Utd who are proposing the idea, that I can see the EPL taking it seriously.

    Screwing Citeh will not harm the type of deal that televion brings, however take Utd away and it is a different ball game.

    I don’t think it is clever for clubs to have unsustainable debt because of sugar daddies, but neither can I see a reason why people shouldn’t be allowed to invest what ever they want.

  14. goonerjay

    Happy B/Day LG. I’ve been reading this blog for 5 years and Pedro and Geoff have never failed to dissapoint. Quality writting everyday without fail.
    If some of the players we’d had over the last 8 years showed half of the dedication towards all things Arsenal that you 2 have we might have won a trophy or 2.

    I remember in the first year Geoff there were only around 10 posters on here that would be lucky to reach the dizzy heights of 250 posts a day. Now look at it…. Le-Grove has become a blogging super power.

  15. Evan

    Happy Birthday I blame Arsenal, Pedro and Geoff for this Le Grove addiction 🙂

    5 years old, if you were a littl;e older Wenger would sign you, put you on large wages and make you a star. You’d then under perform until the last year of your contract, leave us and sign for our parent club(s)

    Keep up the good work le grove

  16. Top Gooner

    Gambon always on the spotlight like MARIO BALOTELLI,as for talk shit,they always talk shit like the granda pa(phw)and always find something to criticize us just like gambon does daily on legrove.by the way GAMBON HAVE YOU SEND YOUR WISHES TO GEOFF AND PEDRO?

  17. gambon

    STan

    The floating has a slightly longer repayment term, so im assuming there are 2 options:

    1- Pay it all over 25 years to 2031, with the £50m being paid at the end of the term.

    2- Pay the £50m in 2013, then the £172m over the planned term.

    I have no idea why we are accumulating so much cash. It makes little sense. As a club we always used to be run very close to the bone, and never had any problems.

    We will see how much cash we have in a couple of weeks, but i would imagine it will be c£200m, im also fairly sure no football club in history has had £200m in the bank.

  18. Arsenal1886-2006

    Happy Birthday LeGrove.
    I really hope you are around in another 5 years, I do not always agree with the posts and comments but that is what I like about LeGrove. It is the only Arsenal blog that I read and feel I can comment on without feeling I am being patronised.
    Well done on a great job.

    And on the matter of Cesc, I would take him back in a heartbeat.

  19. andy

    gambon if we bunker cash to increase value it´s a logical move … if SK really wants to sell to usmanov he wants to get the highest possible value. 200million in the bank are 200 million while investing it may end up in undervaluation of players/properties or whatever … as I tried to explain yesterday having 200 million available AFTER investing in shares/buying a club increases the real value massively

  20. fuckit4thwilldo?

    andy
    September 6, 2012 12:57:13

    If that’s the case then Wenger’s hands really are tied to a certain extent. I guess we’re all just guessing though.

    Judging by Sagna’s latest interview even the players don’t have a clue whats going on either.

  21. kulastu

    Happy Birthday Le Grove!!!!!! I must say tho that I stopped listent to Talk Shite about 5 years ago…. I refuse to listen as it makes me spit blood. I am absolutely astonished that any Gooners ever listen to that rubbish. They say things to rile you on purpose… I dont understand why any Gooner woyuld listen to their competely made up bullshit. Don’t half love them sleves tho don’t they?!?!?!? HATE TALKSPORT LOVE LE GROVE

  22. gazzap

    Sagna says he has no idea why song and RVP left and then adds tha he might be next to leave. So therefore he must have an idea why they wanted out, for the same reason he wants out.
    namely lack of ambition shown by the manager.

    I am not even convinced if we win something this season that wenger would keep the team together. he’d still go and sell a couple of our top players. It seems to be his business plan.

  23. gambon

    andy

    £200m in the bank raises a companies value by £200m

    Money invested properly can see all revenue streams increased that would allow a higher sale price.

    Great players would see the team perform better and earn higher TV revenue, higher prize money, attract more secondary sponsors and land a bigger sponsorship deal in 2014. The net result of this would be higher attendances & waiting lists, which would lead to higher stadium revenues.

  24. Danish Gooner

    May i remind you sir That Robin said exactly the same,here is a somewhat 100 percent correct quote “I could never sign for another english club,i have to much respect for Arsenal”.Three years later he signs for Darth Vader.Cesc just blew smoke up our skirts when he said that one day he may return but i to like the romantic idea of a loving reunion with Cesc and Uncle Arsene but it is never gonna happen,the vultures up north would never allow it they would probably give him half a million pounds a week and make sure he gots his ego polished every week by a personal ego buster consultant.

  25. finestcuts

    I have Le Grove built into the speed dials on my phone (which means it’s good! Not many websites can boast such a privilege). Well done for keeping us all up to speed on all things Arsenal, keep up the good work and here’s to another five years at least.

  26. andy

    4thwilldo I don´t know if it´s like that. I just wanted to point out that it could be a logical move under certain circumstances … it´s also logical if AW,SK,IG decided 2 years ago (after spain governemnt started to discuss about tax increases) to save money wisely to spend heavily after the introduction of FFP and the tax increase in Spain … nobody except of IG, SK, AW and some other people in our management really knows what´s going on. we will find out in a couple of years why we are doing this. if it´s due to SK it´s bad for a football club. if it´s due to FFP/spain tax increase it´s clever. if it´s due to wage increase of certain persons it´s really problematic … let´s wait and see

  27. Arsenal1886-2006

    I am starting to believe that the stockpiling of the cash is a cunning plan, we are going to buy the Barcelona squad when spain sinks.
    We have a clever board.

  28. andy

    gambon that´s simply not true. money can´t be undervalued – more than that it tends to get overvalued. having 200 million in the bank means you can invest. if you are a businessman you think you can get a certain amount of return after inversting. let´s take an easy example. if you plan for 1 year and you have 200 million cash which is not used and you get 5% interests from your bank you value it 210. you got it? now if you have already invested 200million in a building for example this building can be valued at 195 due to enviromental problems for example. or you pay 200 million for different players but the value of these players decrease due to injuries/age/less ability than thought … in fact cash means value. businessmen tend to avoid investing in companies without being able to do “their own thing” but are only able to run the current business …

  29. Top Gooner

    I got to know legrove blog in 2010,but not a regular reader,but since this year i grow into a daily reader though not a regular commenter.

  30. Nathan Dale

    gambon September 6, 2012 13:06:49

    “Money invested properly can see all revenue streams increased that would allow a higher sale price.

    Great players would see the team perform better and earn higher TV revenue, higher prize money, attract more secondary sponsors and land a bigger sponsorship deal in 2014. The net result of this would be higher attendances & waiting lists, which would lead to higher stadium revenues.”

    All of that is speculative… Yes I know it “probable” but it is still speculative.
    £200m in the bank, will raise a company’s value by £200m; that is not speculative.
    You could ask “why not just take the £ 200m”, but that would be terrible publicity (even worse than the current not spending). Saving it within the company and getting paid its value when you sell your shares… That sounds like good business.

  31. Corona X

    Happy Birthday Le Grove!!

    Been following your blog for a little over four years now. I don’t comment much, but I read every post you guys make.

    Keep it up! 🙂

  32. Bennydevito

    ….. (to the tune of happy birthday, obviously….)

    ” Happy birthday Le-grove,
    best blog I am told,
    I hope we win a trophyyyyy
    before we grow old”

    Well done Geoff and Pedro for 5 years of excellent work. Geoff for pretty much getting it off the ground and establishing a following and Pedro for networking and modernising and putting le-grove at the forefront of modern blogging with twitter, facebook etc.

    I can’t say I’ve been reading since birth but I certainly was reading within the first 6 months. I would say but I may be wrong the old school regulars were and are A & N, Surfer X, Suga 3, Queen of south, Sabeel “basil brush boom boom” Gambon and his best mat Keyser, Lurch le rouge, that feline big cat JAY-AG- YOU- ARE…any others I’ve missed? There’s been some pretty resilliant AKB’s too like Albo and Willy billy to name a few. Anyway, here’s to another 5 years and may we win the prem again and finally that elusive holy grail of the European Cup.

    Ps. seriously, do people really genuinely believe that FFP will work? Haven’t Man shitty already fucked all over with dirty cocks by their arab owner who also owns ethiad sponsoring themselves 40m a season over a 10 year deal? Seriousl, ffp has about as much chance of becoming legislation as I have of sprouting a fanny on my forehead – FFP – Finacial fair play?? More like fanny forehead people.

  33. gambon

    Andy

    Cash as an asset has no value other than its current value.

    Think about it:

    I want to sell you a business in the sports sector with £240m revenue, £50m average EBIDTA over the last 5 years, growing revenue and great future prospects.

    You say….hmmmmmm i value your business at p/e of 18, therefore £900m

    I say….Oh theres £200m cash in the bank.

    You say…..OK well i’ll give you £1100m

    I say, no i want £1200m, I value my £200m at £300m

    You say, no i’ll take it for £900m and put my own £200m in the bank.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Cash is worth what its worth today, plus future interest, discounted to inflation,

    You wouldnt pay £15 for a tenner would you.

    Where as you may pay £15 for a £10 asset if you thought it would rise in value

  34. Radio Raheem

    Great players would see the team perform better and earn higher TV revenue, higher prize money, attract more secondary sponsors and land a bigger sponsorship deal in 2014. The net result of this would be higher attendances & waiting lists, which would lead to higher stadium revenues.
    —————–

    This may be the case but there is also a higher downside risk involved. Look at Arshavin, for example, played well for six months and has been crap since. For a very risk averse board like ours (or Kroenke) appears to be having money in the bank probably feels like in winning the lottery any time they glance at the bank balance.

  35. Ralf Falkenmayer´s hair-dresser

    Congrats guys! Doing a great job, keep it up. Always love the blogs and the comments section. 😉

  36. Santos

    Even when I’m sad, I read Le Grove
    When everything has gone bad, I read Le Grove.
    When the Arsenal news world is going mad, I trust only Le Grove.
    This blog ensures equity, news quality, comment quality. Everything here oozes quality.
    May this blog continue to roll till eternity.
    Bon Anniversaire Le Grove…

  37. andy

    nige you are right but a businessman doesn´t invest if he thinks he will lose money? so if the guy sees 200 million available for investments WITHOUT himself having to pay more than the takeover itself costs him it´s big big value.
    gambon that´s not the case. if the current worth is 900 + 200 in cash and I see a possiblity to invest these 200 million getting a return of 5% it means I value the club 1110 million. so if you say I have to pay 1200 I wouldn´t do it but if you tell me I need to pay 1105 (which is higher than it´s real worth) I would do it due to future profit (speculation of course)

  38. finestcuts

    Stockpile of cash? Our debt servicing has only just gone down to about 20 mill per annum from 30 mill per annum (The cost of a good player per year). The building projects were a major faux pas because even though they were profitable in the end, if you look at the crap commercial contracts the club negotiated to have capital to finance the building operation, cost us far more in terms of commercial revenue than if the land had been sold to developers and Arsenal had stuck to football. Now everything is much rosier, and from 2014 the club will have a massive budget to compete with, the good times are ahead of us.
    I wonder if UEFA will stick to their word and actually implement FFP because so far Chelsea and PSG have definitely fallen foul of it……and if they do, when?
    Going back to 2002, in the last 10 years there have been huge changes in football, I expect the next 10 years to be just as radical with a lot of the power shifting back to Arsenal. Mark my words, I expect us to win a major trophy in the next 10 years and for it to have a snowball effect.

    Smaller clubs have benefited considerably too. For example Wigan…..thanks to the TV money they can finally compete at top level, something they’d never have been able to do in the pre-Sky days. If they get there and have a good manager who knows how to spend that multi-million TV budget wisely, they can stay in the top tier of football for many seasons whereas in the old days, the size of your club and level of local support determined that.

  39. andy

    gambon I just wanted to point out it´s better to have a certain amount in the bank than having it already invested in some kind of business like properties as they can be undervalued. having money available (cashflow) makes it possible to invest it without having to touch your own resources/money – no risk for you

  40. Radio Raheem

    But £200m in the bank today is worth less than that in a year’s time. (How did we get this £200m figure anyway?)

    Said this before but what we need is for the Board or Kroenke to be more transparent to the fans, tell us all what is actually going on. Company accounts aren’t always illuminating as they are prone to abuse and manipulation. Wasn’t Enron hailed a model company before its spectacular demise?

  41. mystic

    gazzapSeptember 6, 2012 13:04:55
    ‘Sagna says he has no idea why song and RVP left and then adds tha he might be next to leave…… ‘

    If you read the french article, he says that Song was a surprise, not RvP. He then says it has naturally made him ask questions to him self. He then goes on to say he has 12 months left at the end of this season. Whilst it could be taken that he is implying the possibility of leaving, he doesn’t actually say that he is. I wouldn’t worry too much just yet.

  42. Nige

    Totally accept that no one would invest £200 mill with the chance of that investing reducing. However these multi billionares have not got their money from playing safe.

    Being risk neutral would mean investing £100 mill and having £100 mill in cash.

    Investing in players for want of argument is almost unquantifiable but that does’nt stop other clubs.

  43. jlp

    4 years and 5 1/2 months and I can’t recall ever missing a post. Even remember my first post ‘what a whinging lot you all seem to be’ most notably ethangunner and Franchise…Who knew Gambon would come along….
    Unbelievable really that most of the regular posters from the beginnings have since moved on,you guys have built an even bigger following…TESTIFY to that I say
    ANYWAYS THANK YOU A MILLION Pedro and Geoff
    Allowing this gooner from what was then Calgary grab a daily dose of the gooner world through this medium…
    You guys fucking ROCK and I’m not ashamed to say it I may even have developed a…uhhh…you know…….ermm…I mean…Ummm…it’s like….awww shucks you guys done der good by me is all I’m saying….I gotta go…

  44. Bade

    Mystic

    Regardless of who has suggested this idea, it won’t affect $ity as much as people may hope

    They have an absolutely superior squad already, they’re already on the safe way of growth, revenue wise, so I can see them fitting those rule easily, and where they’re going to fail to do so, they will bypass it

  45. Kripakar Marur

    happy birthday le grove. best arsenal blog on the net.

    @geoff
    i am slightly disappointed with the title. those talksport morons do not deserve our attention. dunno about the actual radio, but the reason why they pick on arsenal online is because there are just so many gooners on social networks. ignore the pricks.

  46. andy

    RR you are right that 200 million won´t be the same worth in a year if you leave it like it is. but you invest or get interests from your bank. so your point is correct but not valid as the money won´t just lie at the emirates floor for one year 😛

  47. Radio Raheem

    I won’t be too worried about Sagna. Though a top player I don’t see many top teams signing 30 year old fullbacks except City. We’ll probably let him run his contract down and give him an annual one afterwards. If he were to leave I seriously hope we haven’t chosen Jenkinson as his replacement, as decent as he has been of late.

  48. Arsene's Nurse

    Mayank posted the link earlier.

    http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2012/09/uefas-ffp-regulations-play-to-win.html

    It’s well worth a read because it shows where we are today and why.

    1. We are massively behind other top clubs in terms of revenue generation. In 3 years our revenue has been static whilst Man Utd have grown theirs by 19%. The commercial team is either doing fuck all or we are well and truly locked into and stuck with shitty deals. Either way there’s no point having such a large commercial team.

    Obviously the new stadium is the reason why this is the case and why we aren’t growing revenue.

    2. We are wholly reliable on match day income – any reduction in that and the pressure is on. Gazidis let that slip last year. 40% of our revenue comes from match day income. (Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle are all under 25%). That’s why the easiest way to affect Kroenke is to not buy tickets, programmes and pies.

    But you knew this any way.

  49. redbearer

    Happy Birthday fellas… long may your posts continue educate & unite those who truly care for all things Arsenal & may some success finally lift the surrounding clouds to shift on & shit on our poor cousins which hail themselves as the yid army!! In Arsenal we believe

  50. Arsenal1886-2006

    FFP will never be properly implemented, it was meant to keep the status quo at the time i.e., the big boys stay on top while stifling the other clubs ability to challenge. Abram and the Abdabs put an end to this and broke up the cosy little club that had formed.

    And one more thing to add, UEFA receives a cut of transfer fees, do you seriously believe they will cut the amount of money in the game? therefore cutting their own finances and kickbacks, No.
    As I said, FFP was designed to stop clubs like chavs and city from joining the party, well the horse has well and truly bolted.

  51. Herkules

    Bade – you are wrong – FFP WILL have teeth, and the proof is that similar initiatives have been put in place in other sports leagues throughout the world and been deemed HUGELY successful.

    Everyone said the same thing you are about financial restrictions in those leagues too.. “it will never happen” “big clubs will never agree” “they’ll cave on money” etc etc.. and history shows that policies like these actually INCREASE revenues and the clubs themselves end up being the biggest drivers and champions for the policy over time.

    FFP is real – United thinks it’s real – We think it’s real – Barca and Real think it’s real – and very few people in the world are really going to care if Chelsea and Citeh are left out of the CL (all other big English clubs should be able to comply to the regulations without too much difficulty)

  52. gambon

    Radio

    The US was a lot more lawless in terms of accounting standards.

    Its also a lot easier to manipulate accounts of a giant with 100 subsidiaries and $1oobn revenue that a £240m football business.

    As for transparency, there needs to be more. Does he need to tell us how much £££ there is, of course not, does someone need to explain why the 4th most valuable club in the world have spent less than Swansea & Norwich in the last 5. I think they do.

    Saying “we cant buy £50m players” is pathetic.

  53. Bob N7

    Finestcuts- the commercial deals look crap compared to what’s on offer now but it allowed us to build a new stadium when we did. Look at Liverpool- their steel costs when up £50 mill or so(as far as I can remember) and ditched their project losing loads. Our costs were reasonable which allowed us to hit our targets, keep within budget, get a AAA rating that has meant our repayments have been ‘cheaper’. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

  54. Samir

    Happy Birthday Le Grove!!!
    Well done Geoff and Perdo! A post everyday (Or a few in some cases) must not be easy…
    Thanks alot though, the first page I open everyday is “Le Grove” from my bookmarks!!

    Keep up the good work!!!

  55. Samir

    And if that is the case guy’s…
    (Wenger selling Sagna next season)
    That is it…I’ll give up on football…We can’t carry on like this. Give him a new contract NOW.

  56. Bade

    Kripakar

    Yep

    I think the FFP missed the starting gun relating $ity

    They’re already flying & now they can keep growing depending on the great foundation they laid for their on pitch success

    We all know on pitch success will always bring you as financial success

  57. Radio Raheem

    gambon

    The US was a lot more lawless in terms of accounting standards.
    ————————

    I’m not sure about this statement. My opinion is that there is more regulatory control in the States than there is here (from the different articles I’ve read and research done) . For instance, the recent LIBOR scandal would have been less likely to have happened in the US due to the different regulatory infrastructure existing. Granted it is different from nitty gritty accounting yet this recent lapse exposed what remains a weaker regulatory (super) structure in the UK.

    I do not differ with you on the other stuff you said since it doesn’t detract from my original point which was a more general one.

  58. Radio Raheem

    *For instance, the recent LIBOR scandal is less likely to have happened in the US due to the different regulatory infrastructure existing.

  59. Alex James

    Matchy Quite agree. Fabregas would not suit our current style. Also, although it will be argued by some that he is not in the same disloyalty league as the cloggy, he did refuse to play again for the club I believe. This resulted in Barca paying below the market price and left us scrambling around for a last minute replacement. To my mind, anyone who leaves our club for ‘success’ should never be allowed back. The only one I would take back would have been TH, as it is my understanding that difficult personal circumstances played a part.

  60. MoW

    Geoff – why get upset?

    Talksport is bottom end of the market. You know this. It’s low-brow media. On the same level as Channel 5.

    It’s meant for men who drive white fans and read the Daily Star. I assume you do neither of these things?

    Why not get your sports digest somewhere more high-brow?

    Talkshite employs pundits who are unviersally thick. That’s the problem. They have low IQ. Hand picked to stimulate their target audience.

    Happy birthday LG and well done.

  61. Bade

    Herkules

    It’s rather naive to suggest so

    I don’t know which league are you talking about now

    If you’re referring to the USA, then you can’t compare, it’s a totally different league setup, where you have no promotion relegation & you have a ceiling to a maximum a club can spend on wages, regardless it’s own return.

    Now the FFP rules suggest otherwise. If they’re talking about spending % of the club’s revenue, then it’s more about preserve the existing “big clubs” rather than make the football world a more fair place to compete

    Because most of big clubs already used the exceeded spending to build a successful on pitch platform followed by a successful off pitch business. Selling more merchandise, ability to charge more for ticket, more TV revenues & more appealing commercial deals

    So basically you can argue preventing the “small clubs” from spending more, might keep them small with no ability to touch the big clubs that already formed themselves a successful money generator out of pitch

    How can ever clubs like Swansea & co compete with the big clubs, if they’re ability to spend is limited to their very poor revenues?

    So, I still think those rules with do basically 2 things

    1. prevent the small clubs from growing & truly competing with the big ones, so we will have a similar league to Spain, we 3-4 clubs will dominate the league for ever
    2. Maybe, preventing new sugar daddies to take small clubs & make them successful, just like Roman did with Chavs & the Petrol giants did with $ity
    2.

  62. Truth

    Happy 5th Anniversary Le Grove; Without any doubt the best blog out there!
    I’ve read this blog almost every day since its Inception, and have always found it to be informative, most of the stuff happening around the club tends to get discussed here, so its a way of keeping up to speed on all things Arsenal, but with a certain degree of Realism.
    At times the comment section debate can get heated, or should I say ‘Hot’, however I think that most recognize that us Gooners are just Venting our frustrations (often at each other) at the way the club has been treading water for the last 5 years.
    Let’s hope the next 5 years brings a marked improvement in the club’s ambitions and fortunes, as we can all agree, its long overdue.

  63. gambon

    Radio

    Enrons fraud started 10 years before it was exposed. They were creating special purpose vehicles years before the housing bubble.

    That event alone brought huge change to their accounting standards.

  64. jwl

    Congrats on five years and hopefully le-grove here for another five. Geoff and Pedro are id/ego of Gooners everywhere.

    Wenger deserves much criticism for how he’s handled team and contracts over past five years. Our best players are leaving because they are underpaid while our worst players remain because they are overpaid, and board members say they don’t care whether the club wins trophies or not.

    Arsenal management always claim we can’t buy elite players but we pay our players top notch salaries. It is ridiculous how much Arsenal spend on dross and then say we are too poor to buy quality players.

    I have recurring day dream where Arsenal hire Mourhino when he’s ready to quit Madrid and then give him the £200 million we supposedly have in bank and then we win multiple leagues and cups for a decade as other teams are punished for their financial prolificacy of past few years.

  65. craigy

    great post geoff, thats what we need to read when there’s no real football about, keep it up man, i fucking hate talk sport they no shit, and if cesc is available wenger would be a fool not to go in for him, what a midfield we’d have with cazorla, arteta wilshire diaby and him, doubt it will happen tho!

  66. Bjonan

    If you read the french article, he says that Song was a surprise, not RvP. He then says it has naturally made him ask questions to him self. He then goes on to say he has 12 months left at the end of this season. Whilst it could be taken that he is implying the possibility of leaving, he doesn’t actually say that he is. I wouldn’t worry too much just yet.
    —————————————————-

    True of all the arsenal players I think Varm Met Sag and Kosc are going to be gunners till they retire..

    And how can they add the OX a new contract when Sag’s contract is almost ending?

    Pathetic!

  67. Alex James

    What sports leagues all over the world is Herkules talking about? If it’s the USA, they have a different sporting heritage. What other country counts? The fact is that football has never been properly regulated, and I ‘m afraid that a few EUFA bureaucrats, who ultimately report through Plstini to the great Blatter will have no chance of implementing FFP Zsuccessfully. Yes some East European side will be banned but all the big clubs will sail serenely on. The only reason Utd are making waves domestically now is that for the first time in 50 years they are on the anvil of slipping behind financially

  68. gambon

    “And how can they add the OX a new contract when Sag’s contract is almost ending?”

    Sagna has been ‘fattened up’ for sale next summer.

    Ox has 3 years of fattening left, then he’ll be sold in 2015.

    Company policy.

  69. finestcuts

    BobN7, I agree with the stadium part……but not with the building development……we made a profit out of it but not enough to justify the investment.
    Let me break it down for you. The bank lent 260 GBP to Arsenal. They had to find another 97 million GBP themselves. That wasn’t too difficult if you consider Arsenal sold Granada media 77 million GBP worth of shares and then sold Bonds to fans raising about 10 million GBP.
    The financial problems started with the development of the apartments, because the Arsenal directors at the time decided that they could earn much more profit by doing it themselves. But to do any building work you need capital. And Arsenal didn’t have it. Which is why they negotiated the contracts! For example in 2003 Arsenal entered into a 7 year contract with Nike for 55 million with an option of a 3 year extension which they took up of course because it was so cheap. So as you see, we entered into lots of long term contracts to fund the building work…..NOT the stadium…..because through the sale of shares to Granada and the sale of Bonds the club had raised 87 of the 97 million required…..leaving a minor 10 million. The club was saddled with a massive debt burden, extra debt service payments and what little profit this building project made was way below what would have been possible had the land been sold, and contracts been negotiated on the clubs terms.

  70. Herkules

    Those are fair points Bade –

    Yes – the promotion/relegation aspect makes things more difficult – but the number one issue that ALL clubs are struggling with is player salaries. ALL clubs on Earth EXCEPT those with unlimited owner money want salaries to come down.

    We lose players because we can’t compete on wages – the same is true for 99% of clubs in the world. This hyper-inflation in wages is fairly new and the clubs HATE it .
    Player wages are already being tempered by FFP – it’s already happening – and the trend is positive for football fans everywhere. When a player can triple their salary by going to City then, of course, they will do…. if salary competition is flatter among the big clubs things will get a lot more interesting and the league will actually get stronger.

    Is it harder with promotion/relegation? Of course it is! Will they get it right the first time? Probably not.. but they are definitely moving in the right direction and the US and German financial models will slowly gain more traction within UEFA.

    Because – Platini is right – its the only way to save football.

  71. gambon

    “The financial problems started with the development of the apartments, because the Arsenal directors at the time decided that they could earn much more profit by doing it themselves. But to do any building work you need capital”

    This isnt right.

    The club used no capital at all to build the apartments. It was 100% project financed.

    To cut a long story short, the banks lent Arsenal £133m which was secured against the project itself. This was paid back from the first £133m of apartment sales.

    The upfront sponsorship, Granada money was used to finance the difference between the AG project costs (£400m) and the loan (£260m).

  72. gambon

    Haha, Platini doesnt give a fuck about FFP

    Platini is an honorary guest of PSG at all of their home games, hes wined and dined by the arabs, and his son works for them in a consultancy role and is on the PSG board.

  73. finestcuts

    The loans have all been repaid….Arsenal created a spiders web of sub-holdings, HHL limited, ATL limited, Highbury holdings Limited and on and on. But as you mentioned, the club borrowed 260 mill from the Bank, needed 97 mill, got 87 mill from bonds and Granada…..the sponsors were not needed to finance the stadium.

  74. Gbenga

    when am feeling blue,
    all i have to do,
    take a look at u,
    then am not so blue,
    when am reading u,
    premier league may shatter,
    nothing seems to matter,
    i dont care.
    Wouldnt u agreee,
    baby u and me,
    got a grovey kind of love…

    Happy cool fiver LE GROVE

  75. Sadam Mahessar

    Definitely think the tax rates increase in Spain will cause a lot of players moving from La Liga, with their preferred destination being the Premier League but seeing as PL clubs can only sign as many players, Serie A might be revitalized and Bundesliga could benefit in a huge way from all that’s been going on in Spain.

    You can already see how Barcelona or Madrid could not afford Martinez and Llorente, Martinez went to Bayern much to my own pleasure and Llorente would follow either to Juventus or Arsenal in January or if he runs down his contract, Barcelona will get him on a free.

    I can’t wait for Barcelona to start selling their luxury players though, they don’t really need likes of Tello, Thiago, Fabregas and they will help slash some of the wage bill and get them some funds to sign a player or two for the back.

  76. Oms

    @jwl
    Mourhino at Emirates! Would love that cos u know he would not try to please the old guard by not spending transfer funds! He would please all fans buy winning the bloody league.. AW is tired!

  77. Sadam Mahessar

    In two years time.

    Ronaldo, Iniesta and Fabregas would be playing outside Madrid/Barcelona by end of August 2014/2015

    Falcao would go to one of PSG, City or Chelsea, maybe even Zenit now,
    Llorente, Muniain, Soldado probably too.

    That’s a lot of talent on its way out of La Liga, bad times ahead for them I think

  78. finestcuts

    I don’t know exactly how Barca’s contracts are structured, whether they’re gross or net wage sums. If they’re net, they’re well and truly screwed and will have to sell.

  79. Sadam Mahessar

    If Fabregas does indeed gets his move.
    Where do you think will he end up? Don’t think Wenger will sign him, considering that he has his Spanish prodigy in Cazorla now and he wouldn’t want to hinder the growth of Ox, Wilshere and Ramsey.

  80. Dan Ahern

    Wow, 5 years. Happy birthday, Le-Grove. Cheers, Geoff and Pedro. You guys are the best out there. You and the comments section are why I find myself on this blog damn near every day.
    Shout out to the little people too, the ones that keep the conversation going. Posters like Lurch, Josip, Cesc Appeal, Incesc, gambon, Bade, RR, Sadam, Kushgara, Rohan, Thomas, Ivory, Kripakar, 1886, and many, many more. You guys make it truly entertaining, and fun to be a part of. Props.

  81. zeus

    Spanish Dave or Anyone

    What the the tax rate on footballers in England. Different sport, but I remember a year ago, Bolt refusingt o run in England because they wanted 1/2 hs earning s or something of the sort.

  82. gambon

    Zeus

    Virtually all of a footballers salary would be 50% taxed.

    Most clubs used to have tax dodges, but i think these have been closed off.

  83. reggie 57

    Congrats Geoff and Pedro on the only true Arsenal Blog out there.

    Here’s to another 5 year’s of success !!

    Peroni’s at the ready glug,glug,glug,glug,glug,glug. !!

  84. Spud

    Not such a regular commentor, but have been reading daily for at least 3 years. Top blog, and rapidly became the only blog I read.

    A massive thanks to Geoff and Pedro for their time and commitment! I even click an advert if i’ve enjoyed the post

    Hope you celebrate with a couple of (dozen) peroni’s this weekend.

    With regards to your post about talkshite, its like Royalty discussing the latest episode of Geordie Shore.

  85. Kripakar Marur

    gambon
    ffp will be introduced. but it will easily be circumvented. etihad which is owned by the man city sheikh’s relative paid 400 million for the naming rights of the stadium. assuming they actually do introduce ffp in the proposed format, owners can easily circumvent it by putting in funds through proxy commercial deals. now in the 3 year watching period, if man city make a 300 million losses in the first 2 years combined, all the sheikh has to do is renew the etihad sponsorship with new terms which can offset this loss.
    however the one last ray of hope for a proper ffp implementation is that the real super powers of football i.e. man u, real madrid, barca, bayern etc. want ffp as they want to remain cozy at the top and stop the sheikh clubs outspending them. even the epl ffp was proposed by man u. however how they plan to prevent the aforementioned circumventing is yet to be seen.

  86. chigooner

    Pedro/Geoff,

    Thanks! This blog is the first thing I read every morning going on 3 years now. You guys do a magnificent job. Keep up the good work, arsenal needs you.

    Other thoughts,

    When sagna’s contract runs out it will be just about time for him to go anyway.

    FFP will not have an impact on the oil rich clubs,

    Our board is far from clever.

    Will we never win the EPL with Stan in charge.

    I am absolutely do not want Cesc back. How anyone can welcome that guy back after he quit on us when we needed him most is unbelievable. He can rot on barca’s bench it’s fine with me.

    Have a good day Grovers!!!

  87. Kurt F

    Interesting quote in that Song interview:

    “Everyone knew Robin was leaving”

    That certainly wasn’t the impression given by the manager or the board, before or after Podolski and Giroud had been signed as his replacements.

  88. Kripakar Marur

    chigooner
    you have been brainwashed by project youth. as long as his two fractures haven’t done long term damage, sagna has atleast 3 years of top performances left in him. and sagna at 40 will still be better than jenkinson who will replace him.

  89. zeus

    50% is a lot to tax these guys I think. Yes, some get paid obscene amounts of money, but most players won’t make much once they retire and comparatively don’t get paid much now.

    At any rate, when will the recession be over. When can we go back to the American policy of living outside or means by running a bit of a pawnsie scheme . I never got the opportunity to keep up with the Joneses.

  90. zeus

    50% is a lot to tax these guys I think. Yes, some get paid obscene amounts of money, but most players won’t make much once they retire and comparatively don’t get paid much now.

    At any rate, when will the recession be over. When can we go back to the American policy of living outside or means by running a bit of a ponzi scheme . I never got the opportunity to keep up with the Joneses.

  91. Bazza

    @Gambon

    Strangely enough your financial analysis is spot on (except when you say “The net result of this would be higher attendances & waiting lists, which would lead to higher stadium revenues.” You probably meant “higher commercial income”).
    However I still think you’re a cunt.

  92. gambon

    No barry, i meant higher stadium revenues.

    At the moment 5000 dont show up for every homegame.

    If we had Hazard, Falcao and kept our stars like RVP, Nasri we wouldnt have the same issue.

    If we won trophies there would be no issue selling tickets, and raising ticket prices.

    If we had copied Man Utds success in the last 5 years, we would have tickets 15-20% higher, and fans would pay that to watch the best team in the UK/Europe.

    Every extra fan that turns up buys extra mechandise, beers, £5 hot dogs etc.

  93. El Tel

    Happy Birthday to LE GROVE.

    Pedro and the Daddy have created and grown thhe best Arsenal site on the internet.

    I read every day even when I am abroad and write my bullshit some times.

    All you Guys writing on here are good Guys with Arsenal in your hearts, even the Manc loving people are really just frustrated Gooners.

    I love reading this site and the diversity of the people writing on here with so many different opinions.

    Pedro if I wasnt working at the Arsenal I would have loved to share a Peroni with you at one of the games. I cant tell you where I work but just look around the upper tiers when we score and you will know which Steward I am.

    Geoff, I also spent my childhood into adulthood living in Bethnal Green so I feel a connection with you in a non gay way Mate. I am fifty years of age so might be a bit older than tou but I reckon you probably know people who I know too, especially so if you boxed at the Repton.

    Well done Guys and lets hope this site grows even bigger.

    By the way. I am going to annoy many of you now. Sagna is over rated, if He goes it wouldn’t be a big loss. Love the Man and hope He doesn’t go but He is not the best RB in League.

    Happy Days.

  94. Bazza

    @ Gambon

    “Platini is an honorary guest of PSG at all of their home games, hes wined and dined by the arabs, and his son works for them in a consultancy role and is on the PSG board.”
    This is not true. Platini junior is employed by Qatar Sports Investments (owners of PSG) as a lawyer and to the best of my knowledge is not on their Board
    BTW your name appears to be an anagram of “Bogman”. Is this your real name?

  95. Dan Ahern

    Kripakar – I believe FFP has regulations to prevent things like retardedly valuable sponsorships from happening. Sorry, I can’t be bothered to find a source, but I think there’s some sort of measure that says it must be within a particular market value range. But I also recall that the rulings would be made by some sort of panel, so who’s to say that under FFP it could be determined 400m is close to what City could get on the market.
    The whole thing seems precarious.

  96. Kripakar Marur

    @dan
    it was actually some european finance watchdog that reported that deal to be dubious. but i don’t think anything can be done to prevent it. for example, if uefa decide that etihad rights is not fair, what is to stop man city from questioning manu’s upcoming deal with chevy? and i don’t think it is fair to prevent such deals. that 400 million from etihad is not a loan to man city. since ffp’s stated goal is to prevent financial ruin of clubs, i don’t think they can prevent such deals as they in fact contribute to the financial well being of the club instead of threatening it.

  97. Bade

    Herkules

    Don’t think we’re struggling to keep players because we don’t have the money. Although it’s not the prime question here, I’d like to say we can afford big wages but we opt not to. And we also spreading the money we’re using very unwisely

    With the same wage bill we could have afford paying 2-3 players top salaries, while reducing ridiculous salaries to youngsters & average players

    The American set-up is totally different be cause you have a maximum budget you can’t exceed, so if you give one player a huge salary that will mean you’ll have less remaining to share between the rest of squad. And there’s a limit of maximum salary you can offer (But it’s a really huge money)

    The FFP doesn’t follow the footsteps of the American way, hence why I think it will fail & will only have a boomerang effect on Football

    And I’m not sure Real & Barca really support the FFP

    But in no means The Amer

  98. Kripakar Marur

    bazza
    qatar is well connected in football. if they can get rights to host a world cup in the 50 degree summer over there, they can do absolutely anything. they were thinking of moving the world cup to winter for qatar. that is how loudly their cash speaks.

  99. Kripakar Marur

    @bade
    real and barca will back ffp soon. with the taxes in spain becoming 50%, they will start feeling the bite of petro dollars. yes they have the allure of a great tradition, but the way psg, chelsea, city etc. are going they will soon start poaching players for the spanish top dogs.