Robin Van Persie closes door on Arsenal deal | What the numbers say about his value

by & filed under News Review, Transfer Gossip.

Good morning fans of Le Grove. It’s excellent to have you here this morning, it truly is.

Did you watch the England game last night? Wasn’t it a bit like watching an injury ravaged Bolton side from the mid 2000’s? That’s what it felt like to me. Sloppy, flat and lacking in ambition. I mean sure, a bulk of our best players weren’t there, but wow, when you’ve got a group of 11 English players together these days, it’s not a pretty site!

On the upswing of things we won. We also got to see appearances from Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. Neither really did anything of note. The  commentators did their best to talk up the Ox like he was the second coming of Theo Walcott circa 2006. Which is a shame. But I’d rather commentators wax lyrical about our players than Spurs ones.

I had a bit of a debate around Theo Walcott last night. I’m not a massive fan of the young winger. He’s not a striker. Hodgson, Capello, Pearce and MacClaren all agree. He’s a winger / attacking mid. He’ll always be a wide man because he’s too one dimensional as a striker. Now, this season saw an improvement in his game. But when all is said and done, 10 assists and 8 goals isn’t an impressive return for a player with the pace he has in the type of set up we have. People highlight his age and the fact that those returns are good for someone who is 23… and again, I don’t agree.

He’s played nearly 200 games for Arsenal. He’s played at the very highest level since he was 17. He’s on £60k a week. He’s looking for £100k a week. He’s won nothing with us. Nani, who is arguably the best attacking wideman in the Premier League has won the lot numerous times. He’s on £60k a week. Danny Wellbeck, who is at a similar stage in his development to Theo was on £15k a week last year and has been bumped up to £45k a week. So we’re not talking about a football problem here, we’re talking about an Arsenal problem.

The going rate for Theo is not £100k a week this summer. He shouldn’t be getting higher wages just because he wants them. He should be paid the market rate. If someone can offer more… sell him. I don’t think he’ll find those wages. Eden Hazard is 21 years old, he just played 50 games, bagged 21 goals and 18 assists. Marco Reus who just moved to Dortmund scored 18 goals and landed 9 assists. In 23 games, Gotze managed 8 goals and 8 assists. Those are starts worth of a big contract.

You can say that money doesn’t matter. Well it does. It absolutely matters what he earns. If he’s earning 80% above market rate, that’s money we can’t channel elsewhere. Our wage bill has to reflect reality if we want to compete. At the moment, it doesn’t because we pay on potential. If Theo wants money like that… sell him on and channel it into two players. Hoilett could do the same job Theo is now for well under £60k and he’s free. That gives you another £20mill to play with for another player. Maybe a striker like Giroud you could bring in on a pretty low salary.

Anyway… continuing on. The Mirror are reporting the news we’ve all been dreading. He’s told the club he’s packing his bags and he’s moving where the stars go… Manchester City. Now, when I spoke to my girl at the club the others day, she said no one knew what the deal was. So, this must have happened while he was away on International duty. I’m not saying I don’t believe the story, I’m just saying it all seems a bit odd just before the Euro’s kick off that you’d want to make the whole tournament about where you’re going to go.

That said, Sagna coming out yesterday and saying something totally different is a bit weird. Mind you, he did get it wrong about Cesc and Nasri last year.

Now I know we don’t want to sell our best players. But you really do have to put your business hats on sometimes. Robin Van Persie is going to be 29 this August. This is what his last 5 seasons have looked like.

49 – 28 – 17 – 36 -21

Averagely, that gives us 30.2 games per season. Take out last seasons wonder year of health, what do you have? An average of 20.4. Replace last year with the season he gave us 6 seasons ago what do you have? 25.5 games per season.

His return on goals has been impressive-ish. He’s averaged 19.6 goals a season over the last few years. A healthy return when you average 30.2 games a year. A goal every 1.54 games.

The goals are nice. They surely are, but having a player who historically, whilst in his prime, couldn’t manage a full season of games is bad business. Take this season out, which is a fairer reflection of his fitness, how could you justify £130k a week and £5million in bonus? Sure he’s our best player, but he won’t be any use to us if he returns to type next year. I can’t see how that won’t happen. You can’t guarantee a player will be fit the length of their contract. I know this. What you can do is weigh up the probabilities. They don’t look good for Robin.

The biggest fear amongst Arsenal fans isn’t the loss of Robin Van Persie. It’s the fear the manager won’t replace him adequately. Herein lies the problem people. If we never replace our best players, we never restore our reputation in the eyes of the squad. That means each year, our other remaining players who have done well will decide to jump. You know how you amend this issue? You go out and you make a serious, serious splash in the market.

Players love signings as much as the fans. They get a psychological boost knowing they’re going into work with guys they saw ripping it up at the Euro’s. We need to make sure if we sell Robin we go out and land a player like Falcao, Cavani or Giroud. We then need to make sure we sign a really top notch back up. Let’s land M’Vila or Martinez in defensive midfield and let’s really push United to their limits by trying to tempt Kagawa over. I appreciate United are United, but there must be a draw for a Japanese player to know the coach understands both German and Japanese.

The only way we’ll get out of the self perpetuating rut is change our behaviour and the perception amongst Europe’s big clubs that we’re a weak selling club who do things on the cheap. The fans can’t keep going through this nonsense every summer. Let’s rectify the wrongs and build if Robin goes. We can’t go into another season on a hope and prayer.

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Anyway, that’s my two pennies… what do you think?

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370 Responses to “Robin Van Persie closes door on Arsenal deal | What the numbers say about his value”

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  1. Arsene nose best

    I just can’t understand why wenger want’s a crap team and to keep on strugglin all the time.

  2. RodneyK

    HP
    May 27, 2012
    13:25:16
    Big clubs don’t
    tolerate failure for
    7 years…..

    Reply

    And fans of big clubs aren’t “obsessed” with how much their top players earn.
    😉

  3. Cesc Appeal

    Let’s ask the BIG question here.

    What are they saving all this money for?

    Where is it all going?

    You don’t have to be a financier to look over our numbers and see a massive cash surplus year on year getting larger.

  4. Lurch LeRouge

    good post Pedro,

    surprised you didn’t address the gossip that our shirt sponsor wants to pay £15m a year and we’re chasing £30m…. perhaps it passed you by?

  5. Busayo Ojuolape

    Truthfully, I doubt if Wenger would sign all the players will need, plug all the holes and make Arsenal competitive once again.
    If I was RVP, I would leave. no sentiment attached (this is business, nothing personal) . At 29, he needs to win trophies.
    What we will have needed if AW was ambitious: Mvilla, Kigawa, Giroud and Maybe Holliet.
    Now am only listing Giroud if RVP leaves, Holliet if Theo leaves which =ch i” sign off on if he’s asking for £100,000 p/week.
    Dortmund wants Bedtener, why not do a deal to include Kigawa?
    who leads Arsenal’s negotiation? I would do a better job.

  6. Curdy Dunt

    Just in terms of the comments regulary posted I thought Id give my 2 cents…

    If we sell the following players:
    Bentner for 3.5m
    Denilson 1.25m
    Squilaci 0.001m
    Fabianski 0.00009 m
    Djourou 0.00002 carrots

    We’d also release a total of 600k per week in wages which we can re invest in really good players. For example – lets say Bendtners wages of 60k per week and Fabainskis of 50k per week – that would be 110k per week. I figured that out by adding the two numbers together.

    Addition is a mathematical operation that represents combining collections of objects together into a larger collection. It is signified by the plus sign (+).

    So we could then go and get a player whos really good and say “hey, would you like 100k per week?” and hed say “yes thanks” and then wed get him to sign a contract and hed play football for us.

    We’d then have 10k per week left over. We could invest that in something like an equity hedge fund – so, say we invest 70% of the funds in long stocks and 30% invested in the shorting of stocks the net exposure to the equity markets is 40% (70%-30%) and the fund would not be using any lettuce or cheese – this would mean Denilsons wages could be invested in wheat and corn crops in Indonesia, whilst still maintaing a gross exposure of 110% (80%+30% = 110%), which would leverage 10% of Djourous long stock optinons in Middle Eastern fig rolls.

    That all may simple in lay mans terms – but in reality what we’d also have to do is bring in Stadium repayment plans and future investment in tea ladies and uniforms for the 2 girls who work part time in the club shop. If we were to sub let our pre existing indentures at 33% over a long term coefficient of (hold on I just need to look up more nonsensical words so I sound like I know what I’m talking about…) …ok Im back….anyway where was I?…so lets say we indenturise the co-efficiency of a sub prime tea lady unifrom and leverage that against the oncoming upward 26% of the total percentages of the pro forma invoice which we would have sent to ourselves prior to the tax ombudsmans letter of intra marital subsidary proposals of intermittent liability decuctions.

    Again – “Simple!!” I hear you all screm…but wait – give a moments thought to the long term grass seed need for future long stock optionalised garden maintenance AND the need for window cleaning low yield wipes at 2%.

    If we could do all that at 3% over the next low yield 5 years at a rate of 324 days per year (not including high interest pro forma leap years) then we could finish 4th next year 100% guaranteed. Maybe.

  7. dennisdamenace

    Blaming City for ruining football is a bit rich from a club who happily took £41m for Ade & Toure, then £8m for Clichy, then £22m for Nasri.

    £71m eh, just how much of than has been used to improve our team?

    The blame should be on ourselves for not taking those funds and buying top class players, instead of the cheap also rans just to keep increasing the ever increasing bank balance.

  8. Bade

    DDM

    Spot on

    But also a club that paying Almunia & Diaby 60k PW each shouldn’t speak loud about “inflated salaries” …..

  9. AJ

    dennisdamenace May 27, 2012 15:05:21

    Blaming City for ruining football is a bit rich from a club who happily took £41m for Ade & Toure, then £8m for Clichy, then £22m for Nasri.

    £71m eh, just how much of than has been used to improve our team?

    The blame should be on ourselves for not taking those funds and buying top class players, instead of the cheap also rans just to keep increasing the ever increasing bank balance.
    ————————————————————————-
    Best argument ever.

  10. Bade

    Now seriously, apart that twat account I don’t recall reading anything about this

    So I’m not sure how true it holds in it

    Mind you there are still 2 years until those deals expire, so there’s enough time

    One thing I remember reading is that Fly Emirates now sponsoring Milan for 20m per annum?

    They have already Milan, Hamburg, PSG and some Dutch club or so, there’s a question is there enough room/money for us anyway

    I’d say tying ourselves for a deal longer than 4-5 years would need some progressive model of payments, or at least a high sponsor deal

    Mind you the ECL double up revenues will up the scale once again, me thinks

  11. Lurch LeRouge

    Bade

    factor the idea that we might be trying to push them out the door by demanding a fee beyond their expectation and theres a whole other window of conversation….

    at the very least, I enjoy the noise that we’re setting the sights high.

  12. Gooby

    agree, we gotta replace robin with a big talent. We need 2 top strikers next season, podolski is one of them.

    I think falcao is out of reach, cavani will be tough to get but i wouldn’t mind pappis cisse, surely he wouldn’t mind CL football.

    We can either get kagawa or even look for a few bargains in France, gourcuff, martin who both had tough seasons. there’s also that kid erriksen from ajax who ain’t bad at all.

    my top choices and realistically speaking would be kagawa and pappis cisse. And of course m’villa.

    —————chesney————
    -sagna-kozzzer-verm–gibbs
    ——m’villa/song–arteta———-
    —kagawa-wilshere-podolski-
    ———-pappiiiiiiissssss——

  13. wazza

    Wenger and board out! Guardiola and David from and Usmanov in! Its the only way forward! With wenger and the current board we will always be held back. All we r now is a selling club ruined by greed!

  14. Spencer YF

    How can one compare performance of a player in EPL and in other leagues. Same chance of scoring goals and assists

  15. Bade

    Lurch

    But again, why do we need to push them out of the door if the deal anyhow expires in two years time

    Unless we’re trying something really shockingly adventurous, say like tying up a new deal with a new sponsor, a much better one, and buying out the remaining of the current deal

    Yeh right, totally not the current Arsenal style though

  16. Lurch LeRouge

    I’ve only seen him a handfull of times Gooby, most recently last night vs Brazil…

    big stage & very anonymous.

    I think if he was at least looking for a move this window we’d have seen something interesting no?

  17. incesc

    “this city is ruining football is an akb excuse”

    its got nothing to do with wenger, i want rid of the guy.

    you lot turn everything into wengers fault. Its about arsenal and how we are getting fucked over.

  18. incesc

    “Blaming City for ruining football is a bit rich from a club who happily took £41m for Ade & Toure, then £8m for Clichy, then £22m for Nasri.”

    do you think wenger wanted to sell those players?

  19. Gooby

    yeah i thought he was a talented passer/organizer when i saw him in the CL.

    maybe wenger doesn’t see a potential world beater in him. we need a top playmaker

  20. Ric

    Gooby

    Rosicky is shiiite… and yay we might have a chance at Pappis Cisse. Is this what we’ve become?

  21. Lurch LeRouge

    I prob rate Shaqiri over Eriksen if I’m honest, and the OX over both of them.

    yeah we need the finished article now, think its pointless pining for rough diamonds or lost dogs.

  22. Gooby

    “Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham are all living in the past. Chelsea and Man City are the future, together we will dominate.”

    comedy gold form a hilarious “fan” who supports city and chelsea at the same time

  23. SDE

    Bade

    Be careful of what you wish for..

    Yesterday you were screaming for AKB’s…
    Your prayers were answered 24 hours later!!

    Haha,incesc is sure doing his level best to antagonise you..

    Quite hilarious..So RVP is to blame for our loss of a CC2011 Final according to incesc..Everyone but Wenger-heh..

    Incesc
    Hail Wenger..!!Hail Caesar Wenger!!LOLLOL

  24. incesc

    leave it out STD

    RVP is paid huge amounts to win arsenal football games.

    his as to blame as the rest of the players. Wenger wasnt to blame for that loss, he put out a team of professionals and internationals to beat birmingham and they fucked it up. Not wenger.

  25. Lurch LeRouge

    yes bade, thats my point.

    Brokering a deal by holding it hostage is more ‘MLS’ than ‘Bank of England’

    wouldn’t you say?

    The fact that Emirates has so much global exposure lessens their need to overcapitalise, but I recon one could find a brand willing to pay that kind of money to break into ‘scene’.

  26. SDE

    incesc

    “Blaming City for ruining football is a bit rich from a club who happily took £41m for Ade & Toure, then £8m for Clichy, then £22m for Nasri.

    ”do you think wenger wanted to sell those players?”

    Reply
    Let’s assume in your wonderful wenger world..That he did not want to sell the above players to Man City.These events were beyond his control..

    Question is what happened to the £71 million accumulated from those transfers?

    Surely a good,top coach like wenger,would wish to reinvest a portion of those proceeds in acquiring quality players-non?

  27. Dave Wops

    Hahahahahahahah… Curdy.. You have issues man. How a guy goes from talking football transfers to discussing corn crops that grow in indonesia is beyond me.

  28. Gooby

    burms were lucky to win that final.

    that kind of GK/CB misunderstanding probably happens once every 20 finals. it wasn’t our day

  29. AJ

    We could have got many good players with 71 million then. We chose to fuck ourselves and here we are, not buying and losing out on our players even.

  30. Bade

    Yeh Lurch, agreed

    I bet if we let Alisher some space he might land us an equal deal to $ity’s with some Russian petrol giants, or maybe Facebook

    Hahaha, Facebook sponsoring Arsenal would be hilarious

    That won’t convince me to have my account there though ….

  31. incesc

    STD

    Weply

    cant believe your so dumb you can only categorize arsenal fans as for and against wenger. If you dont blame everything from the weather being to hot, to city nicking our best players on wenger you are an AKB…

  32. Kevin

    Ok another problem you have forgotten to mention in your anylysis of what should happen if RVP goes and your idea of what TOP players we should entice to our club.

    What does any top player think of if and when Arsenal show interest and maybe (or should I say in the unlikely event) make an offer to sign him…… he would think now recently this is a club who have:
    1. Not won any trophy of any kind for 7 seasons
    2. Sold all of their top players over the last 2 years without replacing them with any TOP quality signings – showing a complete lack of ambition.
    3. Been constantly stating (both Wenger and the Board ) that they will not be spending large sums on signing TOP players.
    4. There are at least 3 other teams in England (City.Utd & Chelsea) who pay top dollar and win trophies, even Liverpool are showing the ambition to get amongst the winners with thier spending and acquisitions + they won the League Cup at least!

    Now be honest what TOP player would choose to come to Arsenal with these stats?? In reality NONE! and don’t quote Podolski, he is not a TOP quality player if you think he is, then I think you need to look closer into what we have bought….. He comes to us with not a single top club showing any interest in him or having tried to beat us to his signature.He failed to hold a regular spot at Bayern Munich hence the reason for his dropping down to a smaller club to get games, ever wonder why?? No he is at best a player who might be bought by a top club to pad out the squad, not to be in you first 11.

    Don’t expect anything radical to happen in this summer, or indeed while we have Stan Kroenke calling the shots. THIS MAN DOES NOT INVEST MONEY INTO HIS ACQUISITIONS. He doesn’t care about success on the field or winning trophies, why do you think he likes Wenger so much? He is famous for making profits from his investments and while Arsenal just qualify for the champs league so he sees a balance sheet that shows a profit he will be happy.

    Meanwhile we shall see every last penny squeezed from us the fans, as he pushes through his methodology, and guys there is not a bl**dy thing you or I can do about it, even if we jump up and down and hold our breath until we go blue, and hey more good news to think of is that he knows that once all of the stadium debt is gone there is even more profit to be made or there is even less need to qualify for the chaps lge so be prepared for Europa or even nothing in future years!

  33. Ulster gooner

    I agree completely that what we the fans fear the most is not losing RVP so much as being left short, Wenger not spending the money we get recruiting a replacement. Either way, we should buy Giroud! That will inspire the fans and squad alike, demonstrating that we are not satisfied with ‘top-four’ status, but are title contenders.

  34. dennisdamenace

    incescMay 27, 2012 16:03:13
    “Blaming City for ruining football is a bit rich from a club who happily took £41m for Ade & Toure, then £8m for Clichy, then £22m for Nasri.”

    do you think wenger wanted to sell those players?

    Do you think he didn’t?

    Toure & Ade were moved on, pure and simple. Clichy & Nasri we’re poorly managed, by allowing them to run down their contracts and therefore taking the initiative away from AFC.

    It’s obvious that Wenger finds it easier nowadays to make money than to compete for trophies.

    He’s lost his edge, it’s been replaced by a complicit desire to make money, which in turn guarantees his job.

    Wenger’s current remit is to do with EVERYTHING on the footballing side, he sanctions player sales, purchases, and what player are paid.

    So, YES he decided to let them go, an HE decided to bank the money.

  35. SDE

    incesc

    “leave it out STD
    RVP is paid huge amounts to win arsenal football games.his as to blame as the rest of the players. Wenger wasnt to blame for that loss, he put out a team of professionals and internationals to beat birmingham and they fucked it up. Not wenger.”

    Reply

    Wenger is currently the highest paid manager in the EPL & the 4th highest in Europe
    So what the heck are we paying wenger for then?

    For wenger to sing Que Viva La France on the sidelines,while the players strut their cheap version of tippi tappi football!!!

  36. Bade

    Incesc is just having a dull day SDE

    I don’t think he believe what he wrote previously

    Do you really believe Messi would have won anything with the same dross we have Incesc?

    That wouldn’t make him failure would it?

    When Messi’s tired he has Pedro, Alexis, Villa, to step up
    When Ronaldo feels the pressure piling over him, quickly comes Benzema, Higuain for the aid. Di Maria, Ozil and Kaka keeping a close look at things as well

    When Robin’s tired? We have Gerboue and Shipipemakh …. Oh and that Park that barely saw the bench …..

  37. Bade

    Yeh Lurch

    But sometimes it’s not about competition, it’s about ego injection. When you have so much money, why not? And Alisher owns nice share of both ….

    I know it’s fantasy though , but surely amused myself with the idea… Hope others were amused too 😆

    For me no doubt an Alisher calibre business man would upgrade our next sponsor deal significantly without needing 25 commercial department employees sweating over it

  38. Lurch LeRouge

    Bade

    Alisher owns stock on the proviso he has no say in the business. Forget facebook, the moment it as a brand makes class/cultural association with other brands is the moment it shoots itself in the foot.

    It operates in a different paradigm because it trades on our personal identity at a fundamental level.

  39. Bade

    As I’m all for the mega conspiracy today

    Maybe that was the deal, to send Cesc back to Barca crocked, as Arsenal knew he will jinx Barca to not winning a major trophy, then causing Pep to leave, then hiring Pep while Cesc turns out to a crock, then we got him back for pittance, then we go for a run of 8 EPL titles and 6 CL trophies, and become the best team ever in England and in the globe ….

    Oh Ivan, you mean bastard, no one else would’ve factored such a master plan ….

    You genuinely worth your 1.7m PA … well done!

  40. Bade

    Cheers for the educated view Lurch

    So Facebook works on the mock of the happy life

    I hate Facebook have to say

    It’s all well and good there… What a fake

  41. David

    Nothing like an Anti-Walcott post to get me blogging again.

    What part about Mario Gotze’s 8 goals an 8 assists is better then 10 assists and 8 goals?

    Never mind the fact that outsideTheo has the highest goals/assists

  42. David

    Nothing like an Anti-Walcott post to get me blogging again.

    What part about Mario Gotze’s 8 goals an 8 assists is better then 10 assists and 8 goals?

    Never mind the fact that outside Robin, Theo is our hifhest goal scorer and leading assists man

  43. TT

    10 goals and 8 assists for Walcott is not bad output for a midfielder. He did that playing for most of the year with make-shift full backs behind him and did far better than anybody Arsenal played down the left.

    He definitely is not a striker so expecting him to get a strikers number of goals is silly. It is difficult to imagine anyone else at Arsenal doing beter down the right. Ox may have looked flashy but delivered very little.

    Walcott is also far better coming back to help out than many many other players that might replace him.

  44. Lurch LeRouge

    Bade

    FB’s like death and taxes im afraid.

    folks railed against the telephone for a time and it was culturally associated with subversion – hence the term phoney….

    see where im going with this?

  45. Herkules

    Transfer fees or trophies aren’t the issue – its wages… It’s very simple

    I can’t imagine why we would sell RVP.. We dont need the20mln and he would be highly motivated to have cracking season to make sure his next deal was a profitable one

    The mans in contract and he can’t leave unless we let him and we won’t let him so he’s not leaving.

    And no one is going to pay Walcott 100k… I sometimes think that the lack of knowledge of economics here is just as bad as it is in the offices at Highbury.

  46. TT

    I’m also still laughing at the phrase, “Allowed to run down their contracts.”

    I work on acontract basis, and if I want to run down my contract and leave , my employer has two options; They can put up with it, or pay me for the remainder of the contract and let me go immediately.

  47. David

    This Toshiba pad sucks. Might as well blog from my phone. At least it isn’t so thick and heavy

    No offense Dale

  48. T.onu

    In wenger world ”failure”is aceptable as many times you like,that’s why we are still diaby and co.his subject(arsenal fans)take him as lord,as for that he is untoucheable.why?

  49. David

    Lurch

    Hahahahahaha

    Well. You won’t exactly see me playing the race card and crying out about the injustices in this world because we let Gavin Hoyte go. But……screw it.

    What a horrible world we live in

  50. incesc

    personally i think wenger is not to blame for players leaving. I think he has been let down by some players like ashley cole, adebayor, hleb and nasri who have had their heads turned by agents and $$$.

    He has bought and developed some great talent but one of the reasons we never win stuff is that the team is always changing, every season.

    cesc was a special case.

    and i 100% agree that wenger has been awful at replacing players, and has made some very poor moves in the transfer market. replacing henry with eduardo was fucking insane, not replacing cesc was a sackable offence, having almooonia in goal for all that time was even worse…

  51. Lurch LeRouge

    Board is to blame, Wenger’s to blame, untimely death of our benefactors to blame….

    Alas, Mike Dean the rat faced cunt and fat cunt Phil dowd are innocent.

  52. David

    Incesc

    We have to have a beer together.

    Something tells me youre black on the inside. 😀

    OK seriously,

    I usually agree with you but not thia time.

    Are wanted to stay but the fans turned on him and he took the bulk of the blame for yet another end of season collapse.

    Ashley Cole wanted to get paid like the french players. Hleb is a clown and for what he deserved.

    Nasri is shyte anyway. Cesc made him look great and so doea David Silva

  53. James Gunner

    Of course Wenger can make RVP stick to his remaining period of the contract. He cost only 3 million gbp. After one year,assuming Arsenal don’t sell an unhappy player,he will be 30 and his value will drop. Then he can go for free unless he asks for a transfer.
    I f he were really to go,blame the fm For the last six yeas his policy with player acquisitions and tactics were responsible for the gunners continual stagnation and spring collapse.I believe it took the 8-2 drubbing to make him realise it was getting nowhere.
    We will know if he has changed. If he continues to buy cheap or get discards like Hargreaves and the gunners cannotchallenge,then he shd be off. The game is about winning and not string 8 to ten passes to score.If you can do it with 3 to five passes witha quick breakout,there is no reason why the gunners cannot get the better of defenders.Arsenal were like Norway in the game aginst England.

  54. Dan Ahern

    Pedro, I gotta say, sounds a bit like rationalizing to brace yourself for possible depression.

    I still don’t think Robin’s gone. Even if he was on a live TV stream at the Etihad negotiating terms, I don’t count it against him. It’s his prerogative to really assess his future and weigh up his options. He *could* be gone. But I don’t think that’d decided, or that it will be for some time.

    I believe, more than anything, RvP just wants a chance to win a trophy. He’s not stupid. He can see he currently doesn’t have that chance. So our other moves in the market are the biggest factor in our ability to keep him. He’s going to want to see if the club’s ambition matches his own and decide from there.

  55. incesc

    haha thanks Dave 🙂

    do you not think its a bit fucked up that the top team in the country can have any player it wants from the 3rd best team in the country simply by offering insane wages that come from some sheikh?

    if rvp goes to city i might give up on it all.

    of course if usmanov becomes our sugar daddy i’ll entirely change my views on rich owners 🙂

  56. David

    I don’t think its fucked up Incesc.

    I think its by design.

    If City didn’t exist we would be showing our skirts to Barcelona.

    Lurch,

    Brilliant as always.

  57. SDE

    David
    “Ashley Cole wanted to get paid like the french players”

    Reply

    I believe he wanted,or was told by Vieira-the captain not to accept anything less than £60k.He wanted £60k,Dein & the BoD were not going to budge on their offer of £55k..

    Safe to say it was the most costly £5k ever,to the Arsenal board when you think what he has gone on to achieve since then@Chelski…7 trophies-1 EPL, 4FA ,1 CC&1 CL
    (given he had already won 2 EPL & 3 FAC@ Arsenal).

    So the question is,was it wrong for him in your own words”to want to get paid like the french players”?

    What would you do,in similar circumstances?

  58. Samir

    Fuck all these greedy bastards…You should be playing for the Arsenal! Not the cash! If RVP won’t sign…Sell him! And replace with quality!

    Get rid of:
    RVP – 25M Replace with Cavani/Papis (25M)
    Song- 15M Replace with M’Villa (18M
    Walcott-18M Replace with Kagawa (12M)
    Chamakh-5M Replace with Giroud (11M)
    Diaby-9M Replace with Gourcuff (8M)
    Squid-Free Replace with Bartley
    Fabianski-1M Replace with Sorenson (2M)
    Mannone-1M Replace with youngster (Martinez)
    Djourou-5M (Replace with Youngster)
    Park-1M Replace with J.Campbell
    Vela-4M
    Arshavin-6M Replace with Hulk (25M)
    Bendy-5M
    Denilson-Free

    —————Chezzer————
    -Sagna-Kozzzer-Vermy–Santos
    ——M’villa–Wilshere———-
    —Hulk-Kagawa-Podolski-
    ———-Papis/Cavani——

    Net spend of 2M ish (Without Podolski’s price)

  59. David

    You know, when people say Arsene is the man that has made ua into the club we are today.

    Okay,

    Does that give him the right to take us south?

    A top 4 is the very least we should aim foe but somehiw he’s got his sheeo thinking its the greatest achievement since 89. And who can argue with that based on the calibar of payers he swears by?

  60. Bade

    Lurch

    I know where you going with this I think

    I’m not sure if you know where do I take it

    Hard to say 600m joining in a space of what? 3-4 years, can be described as “railing against”, it’s more about “instantly worshiping”

    Then I always ask my self, what has communication to do with phony photos of “happy life”, unless deepening the denial process is a value worthy by itself

    I’m far from ditching many positives that grew from such a set up, but …. who’s monitoring the negatives of it? As much as it popular, you should ponder how healthy it would be

    Mind you Smoking and junk food were (and still) of the most popular habits in modern life ….

    Nevermind, I feel it’s a bit early for me to express my self well enough on those matters in English. Maybe in a few years I would ….

  61. SDE

    incesc
    if rvp goes to city i might give up on it all.

    Reply
    Why don’t you…I can assure you,you won’t be missed!!!

  62. David

    Sde

    Penny piching has killed this club.

    I see your 5k.

    Is that 5k any similar to the one we coukdve offered a certain ronaldo that went to united?

  63. David

    Bade

    It will take forever to clean your house. You live in a mud hut with a straw roof for gods sake. 🙂

  64. incesc

    STD

    Cole was an arsenal fan that won trophies with arsenal and had grown up at arsenal.

    his agent went behind arsenals back and wound cashley up that he wasnt getting paid enough. The only reason his earning potential was pushed up was because of abromavitch and the whole sugar daddy era starting up.

    ive never heard anyone say vieira told him what to accept or not? surprised to hear that, although vieira has proved to be a bit of a cunt now hasnt he…

  65. Dan Ahern

    “TTMay 27, 2012 16:50:19
    10 goals and 8 assists for Walcott is not bad output for a midfielder.”

    This is stunningly inaccurate. Theo is a forward. Watch where he plays. He’s often as high up the pitch as van Persie. His game is mostly trying to break through the back line. You can’t in good conscience label him a midfielder.

  66. incesc

    fucking agents…

    there is something rotten at the club though that players want to leave so often.

    we need a big change, to turn it around.

    we should also make players sign contracts that say they cant employ that darren dein guy

  67. Bade

    Incesc

    You should ask yourself why it’s happening with us more than with other teams

    How many times did it happen to Mancs or Scousers even? Much less than our case you have to admit

    We actually give our top players very skinny hope of winning a silverware, so after they form themselves enough, and fatten their bank account and their greedy agents’ as well, they try to look at trophies and legacy

    Arsenal no longer offer it’s best players a true shout to land trophies, let’s be honest

    It wasn’t about the money. It’s the side effect. It’s about players wanting to be proud to tell their offsprings in the life chain what they achieved

    Sadly 4th as a trophy won’t bode well ….

  68. Lurch LeRouge

    Bade,

    one last because you put the effort in…

    I think you place too much importance on the behaviour of pretty simple creatures really.

    we’re born, we learn to kill, we learn to fuck, we waste some time, we breed like lemmings, waste some more time and eventually die.

    The human condition is defined by its propensity to waste time. Look at us on here whining about a wrinkly frenchman and his cohorts, is this any better than perpetuating a false identity on FB?

  69. incesc

    also if we had offered cole 60k chelsea could have just offered 65k and he probably would have done that swerve off the road in shock thing anyway.

    the guy is a snake, its just annoying that hes a very talented snake.

  70. Bade

    No David

    I live in a worse place

    What you described in the new condo I’m planning to move on with my next step up in life

  71. incesc

    Bade

    i just hate the argument that players leave to “win trophies” and when people say fair play to robin, he just wants to win trophies so he can leave…

    they are paid by arsenal to win us trophies, its not like we are 10th in the league like liverpool. We were in the title chase the year before last before nasri had his head turned and we collapsed. We have played in finals and semi finals…

    if the team got it together and turned up against teams like qpr, swansea and blackburn we have a chance to be up their next year… And as captain, its of part RVPs job to get the players up for everygame. Adams and vieira would have kicked some arse this season with some of the displays we’ve seen

  72. Bade

    Hahaha

    Lurch, brilliant as always

    One major difference, on here we don’t fool ourselves into some virtual reality and the live the false hype

    As for the bigger question, I wouldn’t simplify it so much. Give me 2-3 years, maybe then I’ll have it transformed in a good English

    Or by then I’ll write the book I’m talking about with myself for a while, then you’ll probably read it translated …..

    Anyway, shame Oppenheimer & co didn’t share that sentiment. It would have been fairly a better place whiling away the hours ……

    Good night sharp boy

  73. Cesc Appeal

    DDM

    Yes! I’ve been trying to tell them that for weeks.

    Wenger moans about it warping the market yet he enables them!

    If he said categorically we WILL NOT under any circumstances sell to City because they are vulgar it’d be one thing. As it stands we’ve made £70 Million off them and could be £100 Million with RVP in the last four years!!

    He can’t moan about it then enable them by selling to them!

    Arsene is a broken manager in every sense, makes no sense on the pitch or off it.

    If they’re trimming the wage bill I’ve got a way they can £7 Million off the yearly books straight away.

    Bet someone like Jurgen Klopp wouldn’t even want half of that.

    I think Mancini gets about £4 Million.

    What our club is essentially saying putting Arsene on £135 000 a week is that he by far is the most important part of the club….disgusting

  74. incesc

    cesc appeal

    i said it before but do you think wenger would prefer the money in the bank or samir nasri still in the team. He obviously wanted to keep nasri…

    once a player decides he wants to go to another team theres not a huge amount wenger can do.

    and fabregas was a one off imo

  75. Samir

    England:
    They will be joined by former footballers Graeme Le Saux, Martin Keown, Kevin Phillips, David Seaman, Teddy Sheringham and Des Walker.

    ROW:
    They will be joined by football legends Hernan Crespo, Roy Keane, Clarence Seedorf, Jaap Stam, Edwin Van Der Sar and Freddie Ljunberg.

  76. Bade

    Incesc

    My good friend, reality check. Arsenal haven’t won the league 8 years now, haven’t won any other trophy 7 years

    Do you think Cesc would have left so young had we been the best team in Europe while Barca where hanging around 3rd-4th in La Liga? I very much doubt it

    I’m not saying money isn’t a factor, BUT for most players, the main factor is on pitch success

    Why do you think players want to join Real, Barca, ManU, Liverpool? Because of their wage offers? For most players it had nothing to do with wages, it’s the success

    Everyone wants to join a successful team. Otherwise all the top players in the world would be playing in Anzi and the Persian Gulf

    You can’t say I’m paying this or that to win ,me trophies. You assemble a collective of players, that is your squad. You need a very good squad, quality wise, to win trophies. You might fluke FA or CC here or there, but to win the big prizes, you can’t fluke it.

    It’s a bit out of order to pile or failure on Robin, while he’s one of the best strikers in the globe and by far our best player in the last season and half

    Don’t fool yourself, even two seasons ago we weren’t true contenders, we were also rans that only stayed late in it due to other teams fuck ups

    Mind you we finished 4th that season, and boy if the league was extended by another few games we would’ve dropped to I don’t know where, so it’s opposing reality to state we were genuine title contenders

    And this is down to a squad full of overpaid dross, not Nasri or Robin’s fault, but the fault of the one putting all the puzzle together. That is the manager.

  77. Bade

    Again Incesc

    Take Wellbeck or Chechareto for example

    They were in ridiculous wages when they first played with the Mancs. They almost took what JET took with us

    Were they thinking of going to any other club where they would easily more than double their wages? No hell No, they want to be part of the success. That’s how they see their team.

    Blimey, Wellbeck was much more pivotal in Mancs season than Theo been for us ever, yet he’s got upgraded to 45k, while Theo’s sitting for years on 60k

    How’s your money theory would explain that?

    And I can bring another tens of examples of the same

  78. Cesc Appeal

    incesc

    Even if that’s true…which I don’t think it is it’s even worse.

    He takes £7 Million a year and lets people slowly destroy the team without doing anything about it? He seems able to give the shit like Djourou long contracts but not our most valuable players.

    Why?

    Because the players a hedging their bets. Why do you think RVP wants to leave?

    If you really are that narrow minded and think its for $$$ then too bad for you.

    He carried a ‘big’ team single handedly this year to UCL football. He’s not seeing any satisfactory transfer work and clearly the club have done nothing to quash his fears he’ll be playing with this load of crap next year.

    Hmmmm….playing next to Walcott (a winger who can’t cross, pass or control the ball….or take people on) and Gervinho (no brain as well) OR playing with Agerou, Tevez, Silva, Nasri again, Yaya, etc

    That’s a no brainer….City will also continue to build on success, we don’t even build on failure

  79. incesc

    “I’m not saying money isn’t a factor, BUT for most players, the main factor is on pitch success”

    Its all money and agents mate.

    remember when robinho went to city and said im so happy to of joined chelsea. He didnt care where he was he wanted to get paid.

    when cole left us it was for entirely for money.

    Nasri left arsenal for 200k a week, Adebayor went on about needing more money for his family or some shit.

    Its fair enough we all want to make as much cash as possible but the whole trophies thing is bollocks.

  80. Bade

    Lurch

    No you won’t

    Anyway time to do some housekeeping in this pigsty …..

    One of the immediate consequences of parting with your girlfriend ….

    Damn it!

    Where’s the fucking broom anyway…..

  81. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Hmmm.. Ashley Cole!

    I am normally super-critical of the lack of spending of the ‘available resources’.. However, in this one transfer out of our best players, I also take account of the time it was done. We were in a financial bind in the summer of 2006. Money was certainly very tight then and really only started to become ‘available’ in a significant quantity the following season.

    It does look ridiculous now that we left him go for only 5K. But also let’s not forget that Cole didn’t move for 61K.. He went for 90K per week and moved to 120K per week in 2009. So I am not absolutely convinced he would have stayed had we actually coughed up the 60K. He was also extremely pissed off with the club over the punishment when he was caught with his pants down in the famous tap-up meeting!

    Yes, a bad decision looking at it now but taken in different times and circumstances and without the financial resources we now have available!

    I do think we should have paid it, but the decision was also taken in the light that we actually had a very good prospect then in Clichy who at that time did look to be a decent bet!

  82. Bade

    Incesc

    Why did Arteta move to us for a pay cut then?
    Why did Cesc move for pay cut?
    Why are players willing to play for Mancs, Real, Barca for much less of what they can churn somewhere else?

    You just can’t throw bubbles with no foundation

  83. mjgooner

    Wonder why people get angry when a player decides to leave for another club (either because they want a better chance to win trophies or extra money). Would love to know where “these” individuals work? Would anyone working for KFC not leave to join MacDonalds if the latter offer better pay? Would you consider them “mercenaries”?

    Also you should all realise that these players are not “fans” of the club, so they owe no allegiance apart from their contract. Also this talk about the club pays the players to win trophies, so when we don’t win trophies they are to blame, Right. What does the club pay Wenger 7million a year for, if he isn’t to blame for the lack of trophies?

  84. incesc

    cesc went because he supports barcelona and barcelona desperately wanted him.

    obviously there are exceptions to my excellent rules.

  85. incesc

    mj

    of course wenger is to blame as much as the players.

    everyone is to blame.

    i hate it when people absolve the players of the blame and say its all wengers fault.

  86. incesc

    the only interesting part of that article is this:

    Wenger said: ‘I am confident you will see Robin van Persie in the Premier League and I am very confident you will see him in red and white.

    not any of this “the mirror says”

    pff

  87. SDE

    Bade

    “IncescWhy did Arteta move to us for a pay cut then?
    Why did Cesc move for pay cut?
    Why are players willing to play for Mancs, Real, Barca for much less of what they can churn somewhere else?”

    Reply
    You also forgot to mention Carvalho,literally begging the Russian-RA to let him go,when Mourinho made the call from Madrid..His reason for moving was the plethora of trophies he would amass under Mourinho..

    Another example,would be Muntari,leaving Portsmouth for Inter Milan,when Mourinho came calling..The opportunity to win trophies was a major consideration in muntari’s thinking..

  88. Ranj

    What are Arsenal gonna do with trophies anyway? We don’t want to win the Premiership, Champions League, FA Cup or even the Carling Cup. We never did.

  89. incesc

    but ok i concede players will leave smaller clubs for bigger ones so they can win stuff.

    but if you play for arsenal your job is to win trophies, shame none of our players have been good enough in recent years

    if you play for portsmouth like muntari its not the same is it.

  90. mjgooner

    Incesc, I think why Wenger gets most of the flak is this – if you were recruited by a Manager to perform a certain task & he(the manager) doesn’t provide you with the necessary tools to accomplish this task, then you have an excuse if the task is not achieved AND he doesnt. Simple.

  91. incesc

    what are you taking about bade?

    he stayed at united when they eventually offered the same money as city.

    it was about money, he was prepared to leave the champions at the time, united, simply for more money…

  92. Bade

    Incesc

    We’re becoming a small club, a feeder club, if that went by you unnoticed

    Now Incesc, name me whom of those are we paying to win us trophies?

    Almunia (I know he’s leaving soon, but 6 years we paiid him)
    Fabianski
    Mannone
    Djourou
    Eboue
    Gibbs
    Squillaci
    Ramsey
    Rosicky
    Frimpong
    Eastmond
    Jenkinson
    Denilson
    Diaby
    Gervinho
    Park
    Chamakh

    Only to name a few

    Do you seriously think those can win ANYTHING?

    We’re just throwing our money to the toilet, except the toilet doesn’t occupy a squad number…..

  93. Cesc Appeal

    Bade

    We are no where near winning anything, our squad if awful. Woeful would actually be an improvement!

    Can’t blame RVP if he says so long to the nutty professor and does one this summer.

    incesc

    stockbrokers, bankers, doctors, surgeons, architects…hell anything you want, the best in their fields DEMAND the best pay packets and the best conditions to work in.

    Simple business fact Arsenal seem to miss, RVP isn’t going to sacrifice what he could make or could win elsewhere for us. Why on earth would he or anyone else.

    He’s one of the top players in Europe and he wants 150k+ a week? That’s what other stars are getting, not just at City but at clubs like Bayern, United, Barcelona etc

    RVP wants what we want, the players to win things, his reluctance to sign is a clear signal of the behind the scenes intent of the club.

    It’s easier for you to say ‘it’s about money’ I understand, makes the problem simple…makes it seem like there’s nothing wrong with Arsenal.

    But RVP is a rare player. You can’t buy another RVP you can simply try to adequately replace. My opinion is we go out and get the players to make him sign on!

  94. Bade

    Incesc

    No he didn’t get the same money

    And unlike Robin, Roony won with the Mancs all the trophies a player can dream of

    What has Robin got in his bag to show off? Poor lone FA cup??

  95. mjgooner

    ‘he gave them a ball & a football pitch’………great. Yet he earns 7 million a year, really wish I was in his shoes. Earn 7 million a year, have one or two star players and surround them with dross and expect them to win the whole lot, if they fail, they get the blame. What a wonderful world.