Robin Van Persie closes door on Arsenal deal | What the numbers say about his value

by & filed under News Review, Transfer Gossip.

Good morning fans of Le Grove. It’s excellent to have you here this morning, it truly is.

Did you watch the England game last night? Wasn’t it a bit like watching an injury ravaged Bolton side from the mid 2000’s? That’s what it felt like to me. Sloppy, flat and lacking in ambition. I mean sure, a bulk of our best players weren’t there, but wow, when you’ve got a group of 11 English players together these days, it’s not a pretty site!

On the upswing of things we won. We also got to see appearances from Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. Neither really did anything of note. The  commentators did their best to talk up the Ox like he was the second coming of Theo Walcott circa 2006. Which is a shame. But I’d rather commentators wax lyrical about our players than Spurs ones.

I had a bit of a debate around Theo Walcott last night. I’m not a massive fan of the young winger. He’s not a striker. Hodgson, Capello, Pearce and MacClaren all agree. He’s a winger / attacking mid. He’ll always be a wide man because he’s too one dimensional as a striker. Now, this season saw an improvement in his game. But when all is said and done, 10 assists and 8 goals isn’t an impressive return for a player with the pace he has in the type of set up we have. People highlight his age and the fact that those returns are good for someone who is 23… and again, I don’t agree.

He’s played nearly 200 games for Arsenal. He’s played at the very highest level since he was 17. He’s on £60k a week. He’s looking for £100k a week. He’s won nothing with us. Nani, who is arguably the best attacking wideman in the Premier League has won the lot numerous times. He’s on £60k a week. Danny Wellbeck, who is at a similar stage in his development to Theo was on £15k a week last year and has been bumped up to £45k a week. So we’re not talking about a football problem here, we’re talking about an Arsenal problem.

The going rate for Theo is not £100k a week this summer. He shouldn’t be getting higher wages just because he wants them. He should be paid the market rate. If someone can offer more… sell him. I don’t think he’ll find those wages. Eden Hazard is 21 years old, he just played 50 games, bagged 21 goals and 18 assists. Marco Reus who just moved to Dortmund scored 18 goals and landed 9 assists. In 23 games, Gotze managed 8 goals and 8 assists. Those are starts worth of a big contract.

You can say that money doesn’t matter. Well it does. It absolutely matters what he earns. If he’s earning 80% above market rate, that’s money we can’t channel elsewhere. Our wage bill has to reflect reality if we want to compete. At the moment, it doesn’t because we pay on potential. If Theo wants money like that… sell him on and channel it into two players. Hoilett could do the same job Theo is now for well under £60k and he’s free. That gives you another £20mill to play with for another player. Maybe a striker like Giroud you could bring in on a pretty low salary.

Anyway… continuing on. The Mirror are reporting the news we’ve all been dreading. He’s told the club he’s packing his bags and he’s moving where the stars go… Manchester City. Now, when I spoke to my girl at the club the others day, she said no one knew what the deal was. So, this must have happened while he was away on International duty. I’m not saying I don’t believe the story, I’m just saying it all seems a bit odd just before the Euro’s kick off that you’d want to make the whole tournament about where you’re going to go.

That said, Sagna coming out yesterday and saying something totally different is a bit weird. Mind you, he did get it wrong about Cesc and Nasri last year.

Now I know we don’t want to sell our best players. But you really do have to put your business hats on sometimes. Robin Van Persie is going to be 29 this August. This is what his last 5 seasons have looked like.

49 – 28 – 17 – 36 -21

Averagely, that gives us 30.2 games per season. Take out last seasons wonder year of health, what do you have? An average of 20.4. Replace last year with the season he gave us 6 seasons ago what do you have? 25.5 games per season.

His return on goals has been impressive-ish. He’s averaged 19.6 goals a season over the last few years. A healthy return when you average 30.2 games a year. A goal every 1.54 games.

The goals are nice. They surely are, but having a player who historically, whilst in his prime, couldn’t manage a full season of games is bad business. Take this season out, which is a fairer reflection of his fitness, how could you justify £130k a week and £5million in bonus? Sure he’s our best player, but he won’t be any use to us if he returns to type next year. I can’t see how that won’t happen. You can’t guarantee a player will be fit the length of their contract. I know this. What you can do is weigh up the probabilities. They don’t look good for Robin.

The biggest fear amongst Arsenal fans isn’t the loss of Robin Van Persie. It’s the fear the manager won’t replace him adequately. Herein lies the problem people. If we never replace our best players, we never restore our reputation in the eyes of the squad. That means each year, our other remaining players who have done well will decide to jump. You know how you amend this issue? You go out and you make a serious, serious splash in the market.

Players love signings as much as the fans. They get a psychological boost knowing they’re going into work with guys they saw ripping it up at the Euro’s. We need to make sure if we sell Robin we go out and land a player like Falcao, Cavani or Giroud. We then need to make sure we sign a really top notch back up. Let’s land M’Vila or Martinez in defensive midfield and let’s really push United to their limits by trying to tempt Kagawa over. I appreciate United are United, but there must be a draw for a Japanese player to know the coach understands both German and Japanese.

The only way we’ll get out of the self perpetuating rut is change our behaviour and the perception amongst Europe’s big clubs that we’re a weak selling club who do things on the cheap. The fans can’t keep going through this nonsense every summer. Let’s rectify the wrongs and build if Robin goes. We can’t go into another season on a hope and prayer.

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Anyway, that’s my two pennies… what do you think?

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370 Responses to “Robin Van Persie closes door on Arsenal deal | What the numbers say about his value”

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  1. sam

    can walcott move in the middle now?
    or he will keep boring us on the wing forever
    time to step up number 14!

    or step off

  2. Josh

    Arsenal fans preparing themselves for the inevitable loss of a player by convincing themselves he’s not as good as everyone suggests. Standard. Van Persie is world class – yes, admittedly, he hasn’t shone as bright as he has this season previously due to injury. But his assists as well as instinct in front of goal at the highest level means we will miss him. Seriously so. I remain optimistic, if it had been John Cross who’d written the article in The Mirror – maybe. But, Matt Law I just don’t buy.

  3. Nick

    From what ive seen Robin wants to stay but we need to sign some quality players to challenge and thats what his after yes he wants a big pay day which he has got not a money thing but trophy thing this robin situation is good someone in a position to influance the way the club does things is doing just that. Not in a naz or cesc way but in the way a true fan and player of the club should imo

  4. Tosca

    The man city story is just a rumour and should be left at that, personally I don’t believe he is going to leave, maybe he won’t sign a contract extension and see how it goes this season then leaves for free and still big bucks in wages and signing fee. We know he loves the club and appreciates the fans so I can’t see him playing for another club in the league.we also know his family is settled in london and his kids go to school here, moving to city will be too much of a disruption. I say he certainly stays for this reason.

  5. Dplanet

    If I was Robin, I’d want to leave. He’s seen everything we’ve seen. We scraped into the Champions League but we have no chance of winning it. We are 20 points away from 3rd place and came nowhere near winning anything. He knows (like we all know) that Wenger isn’t going to buy the 4 or 5 big stars we need if we’re going to be serious contenders for any silverware. If he stays, he knows he’ll end his career in a Wenger drought – not really very tempting is it?

    Money is no object to City or Real Madrid so arguing that he’s not worth R150k a week is pointless. They can afford him and, at his age, I can’t see him minding sitting out the smaller games in order to prolong his career and help him stay injury free.

    Expecting Robin to stay to become an ‘Arsenal legend’ who wins nothing is asking a bit much when Wenger and the Board clearly lack the ambition of the fans and the player himself.

  6. kwik fit

    Arsene Wenger just told french Tv show he’s very interested in some France national team players.

    Maybe Robin has gave him the kick up the backside that was needed.

  7. DwanGoon

    I agree that Arsenal have a problem with setting wages.

    Many youngsters didn’t really work for a pay rise unlike in United. And then you have couple of mediocre players getting over 50k/week, which shouldn’t even be at any Top 4 EPL side to begin with.

    Then we have a world-class player in the likes of RVP receiving less than 100k/week. The market rate is closer to 150k/week. Axing 2 ‘first-team’ deadwood will bump it there.

    Arsenal could have signed brilliant players over the years and NOW, but it was only scouting and scouting… in the end, we landed average players. The difference in wages paid is not as huge as the quality missed out.

    The clock is ticking, competition for good signings is only gonna get stronger. Be fast or be last (with the leftovers).

    And we still need RVP to stay, if he goes, it most likely meant Arsenal chose to stick to mediocrity and did not bring in adequate quality to compete at the top. A mega disaster looms.

  8. Cesc Appeal

    Pedro

    If that’s true i.e RVP then this summer is the death of Arsenal FC as a big club.

    Look at the transfer targets, gone from M’Vila £17 Million, to Capoue £10 Million now to N’Zonzi £6 Million.

    We all knew this was going happen but it still sucks it actually has, the club has made mountains of money but now maybe its our turn to watch on at everyone else like Liverpool do.

    Thanks to the AFC management, complete joke

  9. Tosca

    I don’t see why some are looking at this alleged story in a negative way. Don’t we all want to see the club competitive and winning trophies? how will this ever going to happen again without serious investment in good proven players? RVP is the proud club captain, we know he loves the club, we know his family are settled in london, he doesn’t want to leave, he wants the club to show ambition and give him a real chance to win trophies. What’s wrong with that?? it’s not about money, so the ball is in the club’s court, if they want to keep him they know what they have to do, and that is what all fans want the club to do, if they don’t then who can blame him for leaving?? To me he is tryin to change the club’s strategy that has evidently failed miserably over the past seven years, and that can only be a positive.It shows he is a true fan and that he cares for the club and where it is going.

  10. Josip Skoblar

    Theo’s game was rated 3/10 by a Guardian journo. Harsh? No fair. What a poor England side. It’d be a miracle if we win the Euros next month.

  11. DwanGoon

    Can’t even sign decent players when we have champions league football and finance… imagine life without it, possibly happening just next season, given recent history and current conditions.

    60k stadium will be at most 40k filled in a season or two. Arsenal don’t play that beautiful football exclusively anymore.

    Some old fans will boycott merchandise, new football fans will go to a more successful FOOTBALL club like United or Chelsea.

  12. Cesc Appeal

    Would be amazing just to see the look on AW, IG and SK’s faces’

    Fax: ‘Lille accept your £30 Million offer for Eden Hazard.’

    Fax: ‘From Eden Hazard’s Agent, Agent Hazard. Eden accepts your personal terms and looks forward to playing his club football at the Emirates next season. We’re currently en route to London Colney for Eden’s medical and we’ll sign the contract there.’

    All three faces aghast

    Arsene Wenger thinking ‘Oh no, this will surely kill Gervinho and Walcotts careers. Now I have no excuses for not winning anything.’

    Ivan Gazidis thinking ‘Oh no, my penny pinching, tighter than a ducks anus self sustainability model! We only wanted to put in a bid so we had an excuse we get thumped 8-2 again!!’

    Stan Kroenke thinking ‘shit, I’m going to have to cancel the yacht.’

  13. alexanderhenry

    A decent article, but we’re back to the same old question. If you add up all the tranfers Arsenal fc have made since 2006, the club have not spent any money at all in the transfer market. This is the ‘self sustainable’ model. Even the 10 million we just spent on podolski is leftover money from the cesc/nasri/clichy deals. Why is the club stubbornly pursuing this policy?

  14. Dutchman

    Giroud, M’vila (done deal), m’biwa, i think those are the interesting players.
    I know that m’vila is done and we have made a bid for Giroud. Giroud would be a perfect replacement for RvP.

  15. JOPPAAAAAAAA

    Don’t like this post. If RVP leaves it will give the green light for the same thing to happen again and again and again like it has every season for the last 7. Selling club for 7 seasons = no trophies for 7 seasons.

    There is no reason why RVP couldn’t remain at the peak of his powers for another three seasons and bang in another 100 goals. We should be complimenting him, not selling.

    Just exactly who could you replace him with anyway – he is one of the top 3 players in the world! And as for signing Falcoa , Cavani etc. there is absolutely no chance. ZERO CHANCE and you know it.

    RVP must stay if Arsenal are to show any ambition what so ever.

  16. Richard

    Being an Arsenal fan is like dealing with the love of your life cheating on you every day. You know if she tried, she could do right by you, but she just doesn’t give a damn.

  17. Dutchman

    reggie, i said two months ago that Podolski was a done deal. And that m’vila will come to arsenal because wenger is in heaven with m’vila. Arsenal has said that he can’t speak about his future. Just like they did with podolski. But it is done.
    Also “sport_trend” on twitter. I have never seen a source as sure as them that a deal is done. They have an own magazine and are site and they know for a fact that m’vila is done. You have to check them on twitter. Every day they get 100 questions from arsenal fans , asking if the m’vila deal is really done. They are very reliable, other transfernews is also coming out. Just believe me, and if you do not believe me. I will speak to you on the day when you see m’vila on arsenal.com.

  18. Rhyle Adcock

    Cesc – we’ve had many a year where we’ve lost top players and we’ve always survived.

    This won’t be the death of us as a big club – that would take relegation or a public surrender of our status. Very, very unlikey and it’s teenage-like dramatics to suggest otherwise. It’s like saying Liverpool are no longer a big club…just isn’t true…and unlikely to become true in the forseeable future.

    There is a crisis of confidence, though…Since 2006 we watched the deterioration of quality in the squad as our best players leave and we replace the with lesser players on similar pay deals (!!!). To me, this shows that top players do not BELIEVE IN ARSENE WENGER ANYMORE. How are the board allowing him to continue in his current vein without addressing an obvious flaw in delivering the first responsibility of a manager at a team like the Gunners – IMPROVING OUR RESULTS AND DELIVERING SUCCESS?

    We’ll get through this, hopefully say sayonara / auf wiedersehn to Wenger at the end of the season and bring in a manager who can attract top drawer talent

    ‘Cos that is NOT Wenger anymore…

  19. Cesc Appeal

    On what grounds are people saying Giroud would be the perfect replacement for RVP??

    He’s release clause is about £11 Million, he’s had a very good season yes, but then so did Gervinho before we bought him.

    Giroud would be a good buy if RVP stays and we add some real talent to the squad Kagawa, M’Vila, Hazard, Vertonghen type players

    Anything less won’t be sufficient

  20. Arsene nose best

    With the way the club operate, there’s absolutely no chance we will get out of this rut, we are in this for the long haul, the only way we will get out of it is if usmanov took charge, we are fucked…

  21. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    Totally agree. But in terms of our real ‘BIG NAME’ status we’ll be dead. We won’t have a star man.

    God help us our next threat after RVP is Theo Walcott….he’d become our danger man!!! You can only laugh…or risk crying

    If the club know RVP is going behind closed doors they should already be looking at Hazard type players to keep the level of quality up in the squad

    If not I can see the board and Wenger faces a ferocious fan backlash

  22. Rhyle

    lol @ Richard…I’ve been saying for years that my relationship with Arsenal is like a 36 year old marriage…I’ll always love her and never her – I just don’t fancy her as much any more…

  23. Arsene nose best

    If m’vila was a done deal, which he is not, then i think sources closer to arsenal would have more info about it all.

  24. Jimbo

    Best blog site out there by a long way, cheers Pedro

    I can’t see anything changing this summer unless we sell first, and who would want to buy average players on sky high salaries, e.g – Denison, squillaci, etc!

  25. Ricky

    Rvp leaving will just tell us that the club couldn’t match he’s ambition & they have no intentions of strengthening the squad to challenge for throphies.

    From then on it will be almost impossible to attract top talent unless usmanov takes over.

    R.e Walcott, I agree fully pedro! IMO he should be sold & replaced with hoilett. He’s on way too much money right now, how the hell could we give him anymore.

    We just need to get him off the books & all the other overpaid trash so we can start paying players the money they’re deserving of.

  26. JOPPAAAAAAAA

    With RVP we are talking about one of the best players in the whole of world football. You don’t just replace that.

    FCK me, only Arsenal fans can talk about letting their best player go as if it is a totally normal thing to do!

    WAKE THE FCK UP – it’s not normal, it’s massively wrong and the manager and BoD shouldn’t be allowed to keep getting away with it.

  27. reggie57

    Didnt we say the same thing about the fans backlash last season after the 8-2 thrashing!!! a couple of good win’s and every thing is hunky dory………

    KROENKE AND WENGER OUT ASAP………

  28. Rhyle

    Cesc…no, our next BIG NAME is Podolski.

    As for replacements for RvP, I’d like to see someone come in with CL pedigree…surely one of Benzema or Higuain would come to us for first team football?? Wouldn’t be upset to see Lewandowski, Cavani or Lavezzi either…

  29. alexanderhenry

    With or without wenger, the only way this club can move forward is to sack the board. No manager in the world can challenge the likes of city, utd and chelsea with no money.

  30. Bade

    Amazing how Arsenal fans will try and undermine the big loss of Robin, if the inevitable happened ….

    Losing on Robin is a massive negative sentiment that will affect the club in many levels, not only the sport side

    And dismissing him as “old” in another Arsene brainwashing. He’s not old, he’ll turn 29 in August, than means he had another 2-3 good seasons on him

    Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Scholes, Zidane, Inzagi, just to mention a few who played their trade even above the made up 30-old barrier

    It’s another stupid thing Arsene invented, just to vindicate dismantling the Invincibles & flogging the team with youth

    Would you not opt for a 30-31 years old Gilberto over Song? I know I’d do !

  31. Arsene nose best

    For a start, pedro/geoff have heard nothing on m’vila, im sure they would say if it was a done deal or not.

  32. Bade

    We can find many excuses to make it easy for us if we lost Robin

    After all as a club we’re better in AEM than anything else, don’t we?

    Clearly Robin’s had enough from Arsene’s mad talk about the “new signing” Diaby

    I truly believe it’s more about the ambition rather than the money, if we lose Robin

  33. Mark

    Are you seriously suggesting that 8 goals and 10 assists is not good enough for Theo? The only other player with a better combination was Bale. And he is being touted as a £50m player.

    How can you compare poor leagues like France and Germany? Nuts! Gervinho used to avg 15 goals and 15 assists in France. What has he done? We easily beat Dortmund. What did Gotze do in the first leg? Ridiculous comparisons with over hyped slow Euro leagues. Chelsea are Champions League winners. What did Robben, Ribery do? Did you see Theo against Chelsea?

    Do you have any idea? Compare like for like or your blog will be labels just another avg commenter trying to be controversial to get hits.

  34. Dutchman

    ANB, maybe because their sources do not know everything. Pedro/Geoff don’t know every transfernews with in the club. I don’t either. But this is what i know. And i don’t care that you don’t believe it. Because you will see it and you will be happy with the signing.

  35. Matchy

    @RickyMay 27, 2012 12:10:06

    what if his ambition is $300,000 a week only?

    he stayed for 7 years and club didnt win ? why he didnt leave the other 6 years??? the club never matched his AMBITION the other 6-7 years???

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  36. Ricky

    Joppaaaa & reggie, 100% agree!

    Some gooners really do my head in with their gutless attitude.

    Slowly but surely most of us will be forced to go over to the dark side……

  37. Samir

    Fuck it, why don’t we sell Theo to the highest bidder? 20M

    And buy Hazard/Hulk! Or atleast try!!

    120K a week? Fuck off Walcott!

    Even Hoilett would be a step up (Free transfer)

  38. Ric

    Pedro you nutter did you just say we should be happy to trade RVP off for Giroud? The lack of ambition at Arsenal and amongst their fans is utterly mindboggling!

  39. Rhyle

    Honestly, as far as top players going it’s never been different going back to Stapleton and Brady…through to Rocastle…and on to Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Vieira, Henry before arriving at the current malaise. For the last two, many will say “but we got the best of them before we moved on them on”…think you can argue the same for RVP…as Pedro notes in his piece, it’s hardly as if he has a great track record when it comes to appearances…

    Players will always want to move on to new challenges or new countries…or, and who can blame them, they want to move to win the CL…

    The difference between now and then is that the quality is not being effectively replaced.

  40. Arsene nose best

    Dutchman – i shall look forward to that day………………….oh after you have spoke to reggie 😎

  41. S Asoa

    Pedro your two pence are worth a million . It is unfortunate the cheapskate who ultimately decides does not measure up

  42. Bade

    Hilarious

    How our fans are deluded eh? They’re even more deluded than their manager

    When was exactly the last time we spent more on a player than the one we just sold?

    If we sell Theo we won’t be breaking bank for Hazard

    If we sell Robin we won’t splash it on Cavani

    Delusional Grovers ….

  43. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    Lavezzi is going at a relative bargain price as well I read somewhere £20-25 Million.

    I’ll reserve judgement on Podolski to be honest. Again I thought great addition with RVP and another attacker like Giroud. Combined fee with £16 Million and we get shot of Chamakh with the Giroud deal, supposedly.

    But I don’t want to trust Podolski to lead our line. Hope I’m totally wrong and he destroys the Premiership! But we’ll see.

    There’s lots of agent talk about Hazard today all over the place, Hazard likes the role inside the striker and according to a few reports he’s taken with us because he’ll be guranteed as much football as he can play and he’ll be a star.

    Draw back is wages and the chance to win trophies. Again though he seems quite an ego of a player, so if he thinks he has a chance to claim the credit for Arsenal finally winning something…..we’ll see.

    When you think about it we have a lot of business to do, a lot of people on here agree we need a very good LB, M’Vila and Kagawa are high on our agenda, Giroud looks likely. Hoillet and Jaaska should come in on FREES.

    If we did that and kept RVP it would be an excellent summer. Leighton Baines is probably the most likely target for a LB and we’re also sniffing around the CB Rudo again by the sounds of things.

  44. dennisdamenace

    Might as well hold onto RvP, and put up with a less-than-comitted player for a final year, because whatever we may get for him by selling sure hell won’t find it’s way into a like-for-like replacement. It’ll just mean more funds available for another improved contract for the likes of Ramsey and Diaby…….

  45. bayo

    I want van p to stay but if he wants to leave..he is free. Why did he not leave when he kept having serious injuries to other clubs where he would have won trophies? Arsenal showed faith in him and its time for him to do the same.

    Arsene brought him to the club and he is good enough to replace him. He never came on a better profile than giroud.

  46. Ric

    Rhyle AdcockMay 27, 2012 12:01:24
    Cesc – we’ve had many a year where we’ve lost top players and we’ve always survived.This won’t be the death of us as a big club – that would take relegation or a public surrender of our status. Very, very unlikey and it’s teenage-like dramatics to suggest otherwise. It’s like saying Liverpool are no longer a big club…just isn’t true…and unlikely to become true in the forseeable future.

    This is just a bullshit excuse Rhyle, offcourse we won’t be “dead” as a brand, offcourse we won’t vanish. But the core of the playing staff has been corrupted to such a degree, that should we suddenly start on a “Leeds run”. Then I almost doubt we have the capability to shape up as efficiently as Newcastle did. And should that start happening next season then we can kiss the hope of any future tv deals etc goodbye.

  47. Ric

    SDEMay 27, 2012 12:37:43

    Did you notice the part about him telling us lets settle for RVP at city and us maybe getting Giroud?

  48. Rhyle

    Ric – there is nothing to suggest that we’d go on a “Leeds run” at all – and what I’ve stated is MERELY COMMON SENSE…

    Panic all you like – willing to take any bet at any amount you care to name that your Doomsday scenario doesn’t materialise…

    I’m not saying there aren’t problems – just asking people to be a bit more rational. We finished THIRD. We’re still in the CL, therefore likely to attract replacements if we put the right deals on the table AND START GETTING THE RIGHT MESSAGE OUT INTO THE MARKET that we, as a club, want to start challenging for titles.

    All this “WHAT IF” bullshit that you seem to be so sure of is nothing but hypotheticals dressed up as something meaningful. We’ve got a 90 year top flight track record that says we’ll get over losing a few players eventually.

  49. Samir

    RVP won’t leave 😉

    We’ll be signing quality to keep him!

    This is the season Arsene will change!

    I pray…

  50. Samir

    Looks like Hazards off to Chelsea…
    L’Équipe and Eurosport both claim Eden Hazard is close to agreeing a €40m Chelsea move complete with a 5-year contract on €126,900 per week.

    United will get Kagawa…

    City will get whoever they want….

    Arsenal will get Kalou and Hoilett!

  51. Leon

    I don’t blame robin for wanting to go. This is his last big contract and he wants to win titles, and so he should as he’s one of the worlds best strikers at the moment. Arsenals lack of ambition and thrifty habits would put anyone off. Equally that’s why I didnt blame nasri or fabregas. However much I detest nasri who can blame him for wanting out.. Year after year of the same defensive problems, inadequate rebuilding, and lack of strength in depth. It’s SO frustrating for us as fans, but for the big players too. What I worry more about is who next? We are a feeder club… If wilshere has a great season will he be off next year? Or will it be the ox? We lose our best players every year. And we never replace them adequately. Wenger doesn’t worry too much though. The board love him and he takes home 7 million a year. He doesn’t have to answer to anybody. We’ve all got mugs written on our foreheads. Don’t forget to renew those memberships people…

  52. Ric

    RhyleMay 27, 2012 12:43:17

    Its a bit early in the summer to make such a dark prediction, but if we start the season without RVP and the only other addition than Pod is one of either Giroud or M’Vila (Likely worse) then I’ll gladly take a bet we finish outside top ten.

  53. Sam-Gooner

    Pedro what happened suddenly that you are so sure of RVP leavingz?? Surely a Mirror article is not enuf to convince you!! or are you holding up something?
    Whatever stats you through up,it WOULD be very difficult to replace Robin but again we have sold our best players one by one each summer (and held on to the dross) but still managed top 4.Always remember Wenger targets top 4 unlike the fans.Top 3 is a major achievement for him(a trophy) as he claimed after the end of this season that this was one his greatest years as managers!!

  54. Mayank

    Disagree with the post.

    We should be doing everything possible to keep Robin. Two reasons. He hasn’t had a muscle injury in over two years. So having fitness as an issue is a bit moot. Secondly we won’t be getting a bagful of money for Robin. He’ll be 29 all the clubs know this. If we bring in any player of Robin’s calibre you’re looking at 150k plus, even if we only spend what we get for Robin.

    Then there’s also the settling in time the new player will take, It’s not always the case with top players but there is still a chance.

    I wouldn’t mind us letting RvP go on a free if need be. If we tie him down to a contract this season he’ll be 30 by next summer. If we decide to sell him then, we’ll get what? 15m tops. Worth taking the risk. However, RvP wouldn’t want that. He’ll miss out on a big payday if Arsenal decide to hold him to his contract.

  55. Rhyle

    Ric – to say that “one of” is to be the only dealing we do is myopic – I think, even at this stage, we can be assured that we’re going to be doing a fair bit of trading (in spite of Wenger’s statement to the contrary) this summer…

    We’re expecting far too many to go out of the door for that to happen.

    I’d be willing to bet NOW that we won’t finish outside of the top 5.

  56. HP

    We already are not a big club

    you think if juve,milan,inter,utd,city,chelsea,barca,real,bayern and dortmund had to face arsenal in a knockout stage they’d be crapping their pants?

    They would treat it as a formality

  57. Rhyle

    HP – think you need to revisit the definition of a “big club”…Man City fans were claiming to be a big club in League One…

    The panic that sets in on here over the slightest bit of conjecture is crazy!

    The only thing we know for certain about our dealings this summer is that we’ve signed Podolski.

    Good start…what’s next is important but at least give us a chance to ACT before panicking…

  58. Mayank

    Juve, Inter, Dortmund would be shitting themselves if they got us.

    We beat Dortmund quite convincingly. Madrid and Barca are probably the only ones on that list that wouldn’t be too bothered if they got us. Our style suits them.

  59. Cesc Appeal

    So RVP gets sold and we’ve released Almunia

    So that’s Hazard’s fee and his wages £80 000 + £60 000 saved.

    But no, we’ll get a couple of freebies and N’zonzi and Wenger will laud it as a great summer!

    What an incompetent bunch run our club.

    Mclaren sell their F1 car and replace it with a 1.2 Fiesta but team boss says it shows great ‘mental qualidy and strength and will be able to compete with the other cars.’

    I love my club but Arsene, Ivan and Stan are doing their level best to make me hate it

  60. HP

    Big clubs don’t tolerate failure for 7 years

    Big clubs don’t hoard the money

    Big clubs don’t pretend as if their current manager is the only good manager in the world

    Big clubs sign big players

    Big clubs aren’t unproffessional and complacent

    Big clubs don’t sell their best players

    so yes right now city and chelsea are a much bigger club than arsenal and will be for the forseeable future thanks to the board and manager

  61. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    Gervinho was hailed as a ‘good start to the summer’ last year.

    How did that summer end again?

  62. Ric

    RhyleMay 27, 2012 13:16:05
    Rhyle I’m not betting right now that we won’t even make top ten, that is dependant on a number of factors. Right now as it stands it is a totally open issue were I might even be predict us winning next years should the window go better than expeted. However based upon previous experience It is very much up in the air until the transfers close. What I can say is that it is looking bleak and based upon our history in these things its rather naive to think it will end better than last year.

  63. incesc

    the whole part about theos wage demands is skewed by what man city are doing.

    milner is supposedly on 120k and johnson on 9ok a week

    van rapist is off to citeh just to get paid more. They dont need a striker, they have 6 of them and we have 1.

    football is broken, one team is on a completely different playing field to everyone else.

  64. Cesc Appeal

    Are people even arguing if City and Chelsea are bigger than us?

    Chelsea won the UCL and FA Cup this year.

    City won the league.

    Chelsea are also quite close to overtaking us on revenue, their narrowly behind us in fifth.

    So they might even take Ivan and Wenger’s precious money trophy.

    Right now Arsenal are hanging over the edge of a precipice, do we want to fold, collapse and fall into the obscurity like Liverpool?

    Or say No. Spend big, bring in excellent talent, tell other clubs to get the F away from our star players and go for trophies next year?

    My guess is Ivan and Arsene are happy with the first one as long as our ‘financial future’ is safe.

  65. Birdie

    What about Clint Dempsey? I have not watched any Fulham games last season but he has outscored Walcott and all.

  66. incesc

    “We beat Dortmund quite convincingly. ”

    in dortmund we got absolutely raped, how we won that game i dont know. watching them was like watching arsenal 4/5 years ago with cesc and flamini

  67. patthegooner

    On RVP, I do believe there is some truth in the story. I would imagine money is not the main driver in his decision to stay or go. I actually hope he has said, show me the quality and if you don’t I walk.

    If he goes he goes. I would rather he stay, but hey we will move on. The concern of course is that Wenger won’t replace him, but I think he is running out of time with the Fan base, so I don’t think he can be as complacent as he has been in recent years.

    As for Hoilett and Kalou, I don’t have a problem in us signing either of them as squad players. If they are being brought in as additions to the best 1st 11 then no, but if this is the Chamakh and Park replacements, then as far as I am concerned, two freebies that will improve our squad level will good business.

  68. Cesc Appeal

    incesc

    you cite City but then leave out numerous examples of teams that do it right, Bayern Munich, BvB, Manchester United, Tottenham, Barcelona

    There are so many big teams where players don’t earn stupid wages…unless they are good enough!

    Mario Gotze spent most of the year on 25k a week until he was bumped up to Diaby wages!!!!

    And Van Rapist???

    Show some class. He’s the only reason we’re in the UCL next year. Disgusting

  69. Rhyle

    Ric – exactly, as you say it’s a “totally open issue” so panicking is pointless, no?! You can say it looks bleak but you’re basing it on NOTHING BUT OPINION and MEANINGLESS NEWSPAPER COMMENTARY AND FILLER.

    Cesc – this summer is NOT last summer. A large part of me thinks that we may have learned at least one lesson in terms of last summer. I’m at least going to give us a chance to bring in players before going off on one. Even if the Hazard, Kagawa, M’Vila, etc deals don’t materialise let’s all take a deep breath and at least wait to comment on who we DO bring in…I’m erring on the optimistic for the first time in many a year with regards to our transfer dealings as the deals for Mert / Arteta / Santos late last year shows me that Wenger can act when he needs to. Just don’t mention Park…

  70. Mayank

    Right about the Theo issue Incesc.

    SAF is a wages tyrant. Rooney is the first time he gave in to a players requests. He gives the players trophies which balances it out. Comparing Theo to Utd youngsters is wrong. The minute Utd stop winning will the likes of Welbeck hand around on 45k? Will they fuck.

    Look at what Chelsea, City and even Liverpool pay their English players.

  71. Cesc Appeal

    If this is true, I want to say good luck RVP.

    Thank you for the service.

    Damn you for saving Wenger from an embarrassing surely terminal 11th place finish but thank you for some great memories.

    All the best for the future and I hope you win all the trophies you deserve as a true talent.

    Veel Succes Robin Van Perise

  72. incesc

    yes but city take our best players cesc appeal, its clearly part of their policy.

    they actually employ our old captain to entice our best players.

    the agent of our best players goes to citeh everytime a contract needs renewing.

    citeh is pretty relevant here, bayern isnt. the german league doesnt have the same problems as the one we play in

  73. HP

    Juve, Inter, Dortmund would be shitting themselves if they got us.

    We beat Dortmund quite convincingly. Madrid and Barca are probably the only ones on that list that wouldn’t be too bothered if they got us. Our style suits them.
    —-

    err we got owned in dortmund and scraped a draw, and for many parts they were very threatening at the emirates as well.

    Inter have the experience to turn sides like us over

    Juventus have been umbeaten in 38 league games with the best defence in europe, you think ramsey/gervinho/walcott will break them down?

  74. Mayank

    Cesc Appeal,

    Do City and Chelsea’s trophies make us a small club? The discussion was about whether we are a big club, not whether we’re the biggest club in England.

  75. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    That was in response to an 8-2 thumping though.

    Before that he thought we had the squad to see through the season!

    The ineptitude is staggering. How on earth can a formerly great manager think that?

    I shudder to think where we might have finished.

    Which again is why I say thank you RVP and good luck. Not for saving Arsene Wenger from utter humiliation but for saving face for our club.

  76. Ric

    I really think we should make it obvious to the club that if RVP goes then so does Wenger. No excuses, it is conclusive, we can neither attract nor keep top talent, plan failed, If RVP goes then Wenger should go.

  77. incesc

    “Damn you for saving Wenger from an embarrassing surely terminal 11th place finish but thank you for some great memories. ”

    rvp owes alot to wenger.

    wenger took him from holland, put him in a team with bergkamp and henry, sorted out his attittude, stood by him through injuries, put him in the champions league ever year, made him captain.

  78. Cesc Appeal

    Mayank

    Big club? In terms of our lingering reputation….yes i suppose.

    But not a force. No stars, No presence I suppose is the worst thing. Drawing Arsenal out of the ‘hat’ won’t be greeted with sighs of resignation rather sighs of relief at dodging a harder hitting, faster bullet.

    If Pedro is right in 12 months we’ll have seen Clichy, Nasri, Fabregas and Robin Van Persie leave our team to greater success.

    And little if any reinvestment.

    Shameful. No other word for it.

  79. Arsene nose best

    If r.v.p is made to stay, it’s going to be shades of henry and cesc’s last season’s

  80. Rhyle

    There are obvious problems, yes, Cesc…but he still acted when he needed to. I don’t think he’d be keen on seeing another humiliation before acting this time out.

    There is never any comparing an old experience to the next, particularly when it comes to watershed moments like OT last year and our activity in the transfer market. You’d think it, at the very least, that such a disastrous event would change the way we act going forward…”we are but the sum of our experiences”…

    I suppose, to summarise my stance, it’s the 27th May. No one has made any big moves in the transfer market yet bar us and Chelsea with their sigining of Marin.

    Let’s all take a deep breath before running down Conjecture Close and other cul-de-sacs of the mind!

  81. Cesc Appeal

    incesc

    but Mr. Wenger states that Real Madrid, City et al warp the whole of Europe!

    You can’t have it both ways! You can’t shift the argument to suite your needs. Either it’s only a problem in the Prem or it is in Europe.

    And in terms of City’s policy to take our best players. Ha. We can say no!

    Perhaps selling Adebayour and Toure to them when they first pitched up set a trend? Perhaps taking £70 Million off them since the Sheikh arrived wasn’t a good idea.

    PERHAPS Wenger not assembling a decent enough squad that the players can at least win SOMETHING wasn’t a good idea.

    Perhaps Wenger should’ve given the arm band to Nasri to try and bribe him into staying.

    Pathetic management in all areas

  82. Rhyle

    What you’re all basically saying is that once RVP goes we’ll be unable to sign a big name replacement…hence no longer being “a force”?

    Again…not really likely. Can’t see Wenger thinking that Park, Chamakh or Walcott will be the 20 goal a year man he’d want…

  83. Bade

    This way or another, we don’t stand ANY CHANCE of winning the ECL, so what’s the fuss, who we’re going to face?

    FFS a better squad than what we currently have lost a CC final to a relegation team

    Apart from delusional & fake trophies, we’ll never win anything else under Arsene, if he doesn’t change his ways

    And nothing implicates he’s going to change

    NOTHING!!!!!!

  84. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    I understand what you’re saying about it being May.

    But I think Arsenal fans are now entitled to prejudge we’ve seen it all before.

    Just my opinion, but i think we’re going to see it all again. Ivan and Arsene aren’t interested in winning things I don’t believe, just UCL qualification. Fourth is the goal. They look at the squad in terms of getting fourth. So they compare it to Newcastle/Spurs/Liverpool etc

  85. Ric

    RhyleMay 27, 2012 13:33:48

    Who said I was panicking? I am calm like a hindu cow my friend? I have been down this road before, when Henry left then I panicked. This is just me calmy throwing off likely hypotheticals, I realise its maybe painfull to hear but I’ve been right about these things before, (I’ve also been wrong) but I see the road ahead, we’ve been down it before so its not exactly hard envisioning horror scenarios. And no matter what you may wish I think you deep down know they are far more likely than the notion of us winning CL glory any time soon.

  86. bayo

    I think we all know what is wrong with arsenal cause we say it every minute of the day now. Can we just try to be hopeful. There is nothing more to say about what is wrong..but can we just be HOPEFUL.

  87. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    You’re right. I couldn’t see Wenger thinking Ramsey was the man to replace Cesc…oh wait

  88. HP

    What you’re all basically saying is that once RVP goes we’ll be unable to sign a big name replacement…hence no longer being “a force”?

    Again…not really likely. Can’t see Wenger thinking that Park, Chamakh or Walcott will be the 20 goal a year man he’d want…

    You don’t know wenger very well do you….

  89. Mayank

    Dunno about that HP. We matched them at Dortmund where they’re absolutely massive. They were beaten convincingly at the Ems. Late goal by them made the scoreline 2-1.

    In any case why would they not be afraid of playing us.

  90. Cesc Appeal

    Anyway, all we can do is sit sand enjoy the slow torture.

    We’ll see what happens come Septemeber 1st.

    Probably a lot of people saying give him until the January window the players weren’t available because of the Euros/Olympics/Wimbledon/unusually warm summer

  91. Bade

    Incesc

    Robin not leaving for the money

    He’s leaving to have a reasonable chance to land a decent trophy, something he knows he won’t get at Arsenal

    Surely Arsene told him how strong the squad is, hoe Gibbas and Jenko will rip the flanks alongside Ryo and Botelho next season ….

    Why can’t we admit the clear facts, they are all running away from the most failing project in football history

  92. Marko

    First things first some newspapers haven’t our best interests at heart and therefore are going to put 2+2 together and make 5 and get people pissing and moaning. Now I know this is somewhat of a doomers blog but is Van Persie not doing what most of us want him to do and that is to force the club into signing players? I for one wouldn’t care in the slightest if he didn’t sign a new deal till about mid august after the club signed some players. And I must say for some people to already be turning on him for forcing the club to get serious and calling him Van Rapist is moronic

  93. incesc

    and im not talking about wenger im talking about arsenal.

    wenger has is bad points obviously. but on one hand you blame him for not building a a good enough squad and i agree with this.

    but the squad he has built is being ripped apart every summer.

    wenger didnt want cesc, henry, nasri, hleb, flamini, clichy, toure to leave did he?

  94. Rhyle

    You’re all fecking MENTAL!!! My point is not about whether or not Wenger has done anything in the past or is likely to this summer…it’s that it’s POINTLESS GOING BANANAS OVER IT ON THE 27TH MAY.

    If we lose RVP and do not replace him then Wenger should be jailed for FRAUD…lol…if we don’t make significant in roads in the transfer window WHICH ISN’T EVEN OPEN YET I will personally frame him for MONEY LAUNDERING. I have the technology. I have the skill. I could do it, y’know…

  95. Cesc Appeal

    Bade

    Agree. Project youth is dead. Wenger’s plan rotted last summer.

    Rats, sinking ship come to mind

  96. SDE

    Bayo
    Can we just try to be hopeful. There is nothing more to say about what is wrong..but can we just be HOPEFUL.

    Reply
    Hopeful that the manager retires,or is made an offer he can’t refuse from some oligarch owned football club,somewhere in the backwaters of Siberia!!

  97. incesc

    bade

    its robins job to win us a trophy as captain of arsenal.

    if we havent its as much his fault as wengers. He played for most of the carling cup final, why didnt he win us a trophy?

  98. Cesc Appeal

    Rhyle

    Do it now!! Frame him! Did you not see Summer 2011?? That’s enough of a fucking excuse!!!

  99. Bade

    Incesc,

    How are they doing it exactly? They can’t get all they want, and had Arsene put a decent team, Robin wouldn’t be lured for all their millions …..

    It’s just shoving the head deep in the sand to say “they ruin football”

    I think Arsene’s ruining football more than they do, as he’s paying shite players 5 times what they worth, while $ity paying them what? Double what they worth at best?

  100. Cesc Appeal

    incesc

    he scored in that game, hurt himself doing it.

    And that argument is ridiculous!!

    it’s the manager’s job to provide the squad.

    In that January we could’ve picked up Scott Parker for peanuts and a CB (Cahill). No doubt in my mind we’d have won that final and gone on to either the Prem or FA Cup…Wenger is a bottler. A lot like some of his favourite players Walcott/Ramsey/Djourou/Gibbs/Song/Gervinho blah blah blah

  101. Cesc Appeal

    Bade

    Agree again.

    It’s easier for Arsenal fans to go ‘wah wah wah. It’s all City’s fault, they’re ruining my team and football, I think they burn Bibles as well and blind orphans!!’

    Look at your own club. The failings are there.

    In the English language there’s this great word…. ‘No.’

    You can use it.

    ‘Can we buy RVP?’ ‘No.’

    Easy.

  102. Marko

    Oh and if we sign Giroud it isn’t to be Van Persie’s replacment it’s cause we need another striker to replace Chamakh and Park. Podolski will be a forward winger for us.

  103. incesc

    its not shoving your head in the sand. Its a fact. City are going to ruin the league if they carry on like this.

    300k for rvp to join a squad with 6 strikers already?

  104. incesc

    ‘Can we buy RVP?’ ‘No.’

    this is the point, the money they have means the player has the power not the club.

    its not about arsenal saying no, its about the player not signing a contract because city have fucked up wages in the league

  105. Az Uz

    I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU’RE QUESTIONING ROBIN’S DEMANDS. He is the best striker on the planet and simply put, we wouldn’t recover like we did when we lost Cesc & Nasri. He is the best player in the EPL and for you to even consider us letting him go is abominable. Even if he demands 250,000p/w, we have to give it to him. Rooney earns that, Yaya earns that, Tevez earns that. Robin is on there level. We need to start paying players what their worth. Robin is severely underpaid. So is Sagna & Alex Song. We can’t let Robin go.

  106. Bade

    “if we havent its as much his fault as wengers. He played for most of the carling cup final, why didnt he win us a trophy?”

    Incesc my friend, what the hell are you on now?

    So Robin sanctioned Cesc’s departure on a X-mas discount, not replace him?

    Robin didn’t bring another adequate strikers, CB, DM, full back, when they all were needed

    Did Robin shift all those top players and replace them with shite ones?

    As for that CC final, you do remember he just came back from injury a month or two before, he scored our goal and was injured in the process

    Was it Robin fault we had a rookie keeper in the goal that couldn’t handle the pressure with his family (and Gramma) watching from the stands? Or was Robin responsible for the lack of communication between that rookie keeper and a green CB with huge potential that was thrown to deep water too early?

    What a load of nonsense

    Even Messi would have won fuck all with the amount of dross we have

  107. Ric

    MarkoMay 27, 2012 13:57:31

    I second that opinion Marko, utterly shameful how some of these Arsenal fans suddenly want to forget all that RVP has done for this club, just because he won’t sign a contract far below what he is worth. I almost hope we sell him before the Euros for pocket change, so that he can prove to Wenger there that he is worth more to this team than his own weight in gold.

  108. Bade

    “its not about arsenal saying no, its about the player not signing a contract because city have fucked up wages in the league”

    Incesc

    I remember Cesc going for a pay cut to Barca, and for pittance. That alone would kill your argument really

    But you have plenty of other examples

    Let’s not just go on with Arsene tactics, blaming anyone else but ourselves

  109. HP

    incesc May 27, 2012 13:54:22

    im not shifting any argument.

    my whole point is city are ruining football and the premier league.
    —–

    Inflating the market? sure however there are many good players out there that would not be that expensive by modern standards

    m’vila/giroud/kagawa are all examples

    this city is ruining football is an akb excuse, either fucking grow with the times and spend whatever you have to compete with city and basically tell them ‘fuck you and your money, we can still beat you’ like united have or just spend on dross, make excuses and whine about other teams instead of focusing on your own.

  110. Bade

    “In that January we could’ve picked up Scott Parker for peanuts and a CB (Cahill). No doubt in my mind we’d have won that final and gone on to either the Prem or FA Cup…Wenger is a bottler. A lot like some of his favourite players ”

    Spot on Cesc

    And it wasn’t the only time Arsene fucked up a transfer window, was it?

    Can anyone tell me when was the last transfer window where we got all the players needed? Ages ago …..

  111. Az Uz

    I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT YOU’RE QUESTIONING ROBIN’S DEMANDS. He is the best striker on the planet and simply put, we wouldn’t recover like we did when we lost Cesc & Nasri. He is the best player in the EPL and for you to even consider us letting him go is abominable. Even if he demands 250,000p/w, we have to give it to him. Rooney earns that, Yaya earns that, Tevez earns that. Robin is on there level. We need to start paying players what their worth. Robin is severely underpaid. So is Sagna & Alex Song. We can’t let Robin go. Selling RvP this season will only mean that we face another terrible summer when we eventually succumb to a last-minute bid from City and then we totally forget that we need players in other positions. We will also go another season trophy less because we will be trying to adapt. We need to add more quality players and not sell our best player to our EPL rival. Another factor will be that we won’ the able to attract top players. At max we’ll sign the Kalou’s, Hoilett’s instead of Giroud, Belhanda etc. Who will want to join a club that sells it’s best players every year. Who will even want to stay. The likes of Song, Vermaelen will do the same and leave next year after going a year trophyless. I can’t believe your article about Robin.

  112. Ric

    Oh and again that CC cup was lost by a goal that came from a flaw we’ve had in our tactics for over ten years now. Its ludicrous.

  113. Cesc Appeal

    Bade

    Good point. He always seems to begrudgingly buy if he HAS to…say after an 8-2 annihilation!!

    Can’t remember the last time we were satisfied in a window

  114. reggie57

    If you look on newsnow all it ever says: arsenal after cheap striker,bargain buy,£6 million player linked,free transfer,etc,etc,all this stem’s from the board and wenger!! dont you realise we aint gonna compete till the removal of wenger and silent stan…..

  115. Bade

    Cesc

    Sadly, if you check thing retrospectively, we retracted quality wise from one transfer window to the next. At best we hold it firm, but we never actually improved after a transfer window

    We could’ve Cahill, Samba, De Rossi, Parker, and on and on and on, but either we don’t buy them ever, or we buy them late

    When we needed badly a striker few seasons back, Arsene opted to gamble on our title run, and “save us” few millions for Chamakh

    Almost every transfer window it’s the same story over and over again

    Just this very last January transfer, it was clearer than sunshine that we needed fullback, at least LB, there were few decent available, he dithered, we ended up with 1 point out of 4 games, including 3 losses on the bounce

    It’s not the players, it’s Arsene

  116. Geir

    Players shouldn’t be allowed to play their power like this. Keep van Persie, withdraw him from the 25 piece squad and let him see how indispensable he is.

  117. Rhyle

    By the by – completely agree about the deterioration in quality in the squad since, probably 2004 let alone recently…we’ve got weaker and weaker…

    I’m willing to remain calm and give us a chance in this window before going off about our activity, though…otherwise you just look like a mentalist…lol…

  118. HP

    To be honest I don’t think we need usmanov to take over to get trophies.

    We just need to spend well in every transfer window and be ruthless with the dross

    and we need a change of manager, I don’t think the board are opposed to spending the money available they just don’t want to inject any of their own

    Even if we don’t win anything I won’t care, at least we tried to win and were ambitious