Arsene… leave the commercial side alone! | Robin denies interview, not moving | Sunderland – Arsenal preview

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Morning everyone! Nothing like waking up to yet another lecture from Arsene Wenger on profit and how to run a good company. Yeah, Arsene is spouting off again in the press trying to justify his lack of expenditure by bending the truth about what has to happen at the company he’s running on a commercial level.

“We want to pay the debt we owe from the stadium we built, that’s around £15 million [per year]. So it’s normal that at the start, we have to make at least £15 million or we lose money.”

Oh Arsene, why do you do it? Why don’t you just leave the finance to Ivan and get on with your job. It’s not your responsibility to look after that side of the business. It’s your job to look after what happens on the pitch. Ivan sets your budget for the year and he’ll tell you what you can and cannot spent on players. I tell you who else could put you straight on your thinking about the stadium repayments… Danny Fiszman. He said this a few years ago…

‘There is this constant thing that the Emirates is bleeding the club, that we’ve got these repayments — it’s total crap – look at our accounts and you will see our net payments are £20m and the revenue increase from the new stadium is close to £50m. Explain to me how the stadium bleeds the club if it’s producing an extra £30m a year’

Well Danny, someone needs to explain that to Arsene Wenger, because after years of trying to put out the fire of fear around the stadium loan killing us, the manager is trying to reignite it to cause confusion and panic. The club DO produce profit, albeit through property and player sales and we have done regularly over the past 4 years… but we’re not investing it back in the playing squad.

We could also go into debt. Sure it’s not sustainable on a long term basis… but if the club decided they wanted to pump a £120million into player acquisitions to make sure there was an amazing team on the pitch by the time of commercial renewals, they could do that with little problem (when you consider we’ll have £77mill in cash sitting in the bank when the Queensland Rd development sells, we’re not far off). In fact, Madrid did something similar a few years ago when they tried to make it back to the top. They took out huge loans, brought in some major players, didn’t make it back to the top, but they sure as hell raked in the cash on a commercial front. Everyone wants to be associated with their glamour.

The trouble Arsenal have is that they made supporting so about business that the fans had to go out and educate themselves in corporate finance. Now we’re all educated, it’s becoming harder for Arsene to spin his nonsense because professionals who know the clubs finances better than the club can unravel what’s going on pretty damn fast.

The manager took a pop at the African Cup of Nations. He quipped that quality was low and that nobody was attending.

‘Can the people not afford to pay for tickets? Are the prices too high? There is a deep, basic problem with this tournament – there is nobody there.’

I have to agree with him. I caught the second half of Ghana vs Zambia the other day. The stadiums were empty and the football was terrible. Maybe the tournament is played too often? Maybe the Africans are numb to international football like we are in England? Either way, I think they’d benefit from playing it every four years over two. Good news is that Gervinho will be back soon. He hasn’t contracted any tropical diseases yet and he managed to score a  good goal the other night!

Arsene also ruled himself out of the England manager job…

“[Managing a national team] is completely different; it is more PR, more communication, there is less impact on the footballing side and less impact on building the team because if you have a good generation then you can do well and if you don’t you can do nothing. In a club you always have ways to build a team.”

I think all signs point to Redknapp. That would work for me. He’s desperate for the job, he’s worked hard to get it, he knows how to motivate and the players will love him. It’ll also unsettle Spurs in the run in. That’s going to be really interesting. How will their squad react to knowing Harry might be off in the summer? Quite often it has a negative impact on team unity. Suddenly not everyone is pulling in the same direction because they feel the manager isn’t. Hopeful speculation maybe…

It’s Sunderland up this afternoon… a big, big test of resolve for the Arsenal team. We need to start building out a bit of a run otherwise we’ll fast see ourselves dropping out of contention for the coveted money making position (<– that sounded a bit gross didn’t it). The team from the North East is resurgent under Martin O’Neill and they’re eighth in the league. Never mind where we think we are as a club, they’re contenders with us at the moment. That doesn’t mean we should roll over and let them take the points. We’ve got to go up there and play with the same authority we did against Blackburn last week. We’re going to have to play our expansive games and we’re going to have to make sure we get the best out of Theo and Oxo. Stretching them with pace will pen them in and make our job a whole lot easier.

I’m not sure how Arsene will line up. I’m guessing he’ll go with a front three of Oxo, Theo and Robin… he has little choice. The midfield will probably revert back to Arteta, Rambo and Song… at the back, I’d hope to see a far more balance line up with Sagna slipping into right back and probably a continuation of Vermaelen, Mertesacker and Kosicielny. That’s a strong side. A side that should go up there and win!

[twitter-follow screen_name=’LeGrove’ show_count=’yes’] 

Right, that’s all I have for you… have a great day!

UPDATE:

Wenger came out to deny the Marca story about Robin moving over to Spain with Madrid. The pressure is sure to ramp up over the next few months. We know it’s unlikely Robin will hang around for Arsenal to get their act in order, so we have to expect this. One line that did make me laugh was this one about Barca getting Robin…

“What do you think? Barcelona knows that they have a difficult job with us, always,”

Errrr… no they don’t. That much is pretty clear after the summer when they mocked us for getting Cesc on a cut price deal. Anyway, don’t worry your cottons… Robin said this on Twitter.

“Contrary to reports in Spain I have NEVER spoken to Marca newspaper and never gave any interview. Enjoy your day.”

Shame he didn’t deny wanting to move there!

 

784 Responses to “Arsene… leave the commercial side alone! | Robin denies interview, not moving | Sunderland – Arsenal preview”

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  1. IvoryGoonz

    albo: i dont know how you still keep bein blind, but i suppose you have your reasons.
    if you are like St Thomas and need to see God to have faith, you will only ever believe once you’re dead and can see truth yourself.
    I dont see what positive come out of your posts, only suspicion, disbelief, and blindness.
    I could suspect you were born during the last world war and still live in that era.
    pretty much the way Wenger hasnt evolved the last 15 years.
    hence I wonder why you spend your time here rather than on ACLF or Untold…

    I will finish my comment on that subject by something I hope will make you realise how much shit Wenger gets you to eat with smiles:
    Wenger will say he tried to sign Messi,CR7 and others, and we end up with Squillaci, Chamakh, and renew Diaby.
    there’s “trying” and “doing”, anything else is fuckin excuses for failing.
    7m a year, who are you kidding?.
    i can do at least the same job if you pay me my current wage. im sure if i keep selling year after year Arsenal’s best players, I’ll at least have a positive net transfer as good as him. there’s nothing impressive in what Wenger has been doing the last 10 years…
    Wenger makes sure people praise him for his sales, but will never accept to admit his own mistakes, and that he is too weak these days to MANage.
    if you still believe we’ll sign big players in their prime, you are as deluded about Wenger as Wenger is deluded about FFP.

  2. albo

    Ricky – I’m not sure that saying ‘you know for a fact’ counts as a reliable source.

    Arsenal hardly ever talk about transfer dealings so personally I take it as a certainty that every window we have tried pretty hard for various players who we have subsequently lost out on…

  3. albo

    IvoryGoonz – hilarious. If its so easy to do what Wenger does in the transfer market…why don’t all these teams below us that outspend us do much better?

    And re your list of poor transfers – its time to accept that EVERY manager has transfer missteps. And in the last few seasons we’ve had fewer than most. When it comes to our bigger money signings we’ve actually hardly put a foot wrong – Arteta, Oxlade, Kozzer, Vermaelen, Gervinho etc. Sure we’ve taken gambles on some cheaper players who haven’t worked out, but which team hasn’t?

    We could certainly have signed MORE quality players – and I’ve always said that our failure to have a player ready to replace Fabregas was an appalling dereliction of duty by the club – but it’s silly to just list Squill and Chamakh and then pretend they are reflections of all our transfer activities in the last few seasons!

  4. IvoryGoonz

    albo: he’s been trying hard the last 10 years, surely at some point you don’t need copies of Wenger’s emails to understand he’s not doing enough??
    Do I need to see the bank receipts to know Balladur and Chirac received kick-backs and that Sarkozy is doing the same?
    do i need to go back in time to know Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t kill JFK on his own? not really.
    as long a you are happy eating corporate bs and doubt other fans, they win, you lose;
    now i’ll reformulate your interrogation the way you should actually ask yourself:
    do you have any actual proof that Wenger really tried to sign them, and by that I mean offered them packages interesting enough for them to chose Arsenal rather than City or Barca??? show me the contract offers then….
    dont expect from your brethren what you dont offer them…
    at the end of the day, thats the difference between saying what you’ll do, and do what you say.
    promises, and more excuses.

  5. BacaryisGod

    Geoff-how which money will Geoff take to sell his shares in Le Grove? You’re beginning to depress me with all this negativity even after a miracle win. Open up the bidding please!

  6. iffy the Mighty Goonasaures

    Arsenal hardly ever talk about transfer dealings so personally I take it as a certainty that every window we have tried pretty hard for various players who we have subsequently lost out on
    ——————————————————-

    Thats laughable. do you have a good reason for this inference or is it just blind AKB intuition?

    Its because of people like you that Arsenal is struggling today

  7. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 11, 2012 19:52:53
    IvoryGoonz – hilarious. If its so easy to do what Wenger does in the transfer market…why don’t all these teams below us that outspend us do much better?
    ———–
    another empty statement…
    who outspend us?
    where’s tottenham now? do they spend more in wages and overall? no,
    how did you like Swansea last time around ? think they spend more than us?

    and no, in the last 7 transfer windows, Wenger has made more mistakes than anyone else… should check the transfers since 2003-2004, and ask yourself zhere is Reyes, Papadopoulos, or even Mart Poom.
    you aint got a clue about what transfers we made, you only see Fabregas and Wilshere. I posted couple weeks ago an actual list of all those signings since the period we are supposed to have started competing with Chelsea and Man U

    Im glad you find this hilarious, bless the ignorants;
    i find this disheartening, sad, and disgusting.
    i cant even understand how you call yourself an Arsenal fan, you’re barely an Arsene fan.

  8. Ricky

    Albo,

    I don’t choose to know about the mancs transfer dealings & tbh I couldn’t care less about who they sign but I have family members who are die hard utd fans in Manchester & season ticket holders.. they have their sources & then inform me just to piss me off further.

    Plus, everybody knows man utds dealings.. It’s not like they keep it overly secretive like we do..

    Anyhow, like I said I couldn’t give a toss about them, just stating that when they are short in areas they spend money for the best where as wenger looks for the cheapest wank stain in football there is.

  9. albo

    Ivory – you were talking about transfer profits, so our wage bill isn’t the issue in this debate. In terms of transfer spending, pretty much EVERYONE outspends us. Sadly for your argument, between 2006 and 2011, Swansea DID outspend us on transfers! (Note, you were the one who spoke about AW’s transfer dealings, so the wage bill is not relevant in this argument).

    Since 2004 we have been outspent by every team in the EPL, and yet have finished in the top 4 every year. So by definition, we can’t have made ‘more mistakes than most’. Jeez, even Fergie has probably made as many misteps as us in the past few seasons!

    Your problem (and many on here’s problem) is that because IN GENERAL things aren’t happening at Arsenal as you want them to, you then can’t see the SPECIFIC areas in which we are effective.

    You say I am delusional, but actually I’m a far more balanced analyst than you because I’m very capable of talking about the areas we have done poorly (as you will know if you look over my posts about the summer etc etc).

    Here’s the thing – at the moment people like you argue 2 contradictory points but you don’t appreciate the contradictions. You claim Wenger is ‘destroying the club’ but also claim that if we just spent what we have in the bank then we’d be one of the best teams in the country.

    BOTH OF THESE STATEMENTS CAN’T BE TRUE!!!

  10. IvoryGoonz

    albo: and taking the last transfer window as a representative sample is a fukin joke;
    Gerv is an exception in the signings, he had already declared before signing for lille he wanted to go to Arsenal;
    mert, arteta, are stop gaps,Park was a marketing ploy
    verm has fitness trouble that Wenger’s training methods are worsening
    oxlade, as much as you like him now, will just end up like Walcott with the same training and same coach.
    there are no fucking coincidences, not even on injuries.
    but you prefer to believe Wenger’s lies.
    tell me, when he says Wilshere will be back in 3 weeks ,despite the injury in training, and only admit he wont be back soon the day after the end of the transfer window, are you really that stupid to believe Wenger when he says he didnt know despite spending more than 2.5m on the new medical center??
    have fun making fun of me as much as you want.
    ive decided to at least try to change things, my way, the world deserve better than all this shit; might take me couple lives, might only bring a stone to the wall, but at least im doing something and I have a plan
    you’re just sitting there laughing at me pointing my finger, and ignore im showin you where the moon is.
    after, well, there’ll always be idiots who prefer to believe whatever tv says rather than use their brains…

  11. charles

    Ivorygoonz gambon posted recently a graph showing that Arsenal were the bottom net spenders in the premier league over the last 6 seasons.

    I don’t think Arsene is doing a great job at the moment, but you can’t say that you would do a better job than him becuase clearly you wouldn’t.

    And in terms of keeping a team in the top 4 on a shoe string budget no one is better, if there was someone better I am sure Kroneke would have signed them by now. (BTW i am not saying that is a good thing we should have more ambition)

    The problem sometimes with you doomers is you can’t have it both ways you can’t one week say he spends absolutely fuck all and then next week say he signs loads of players and they are all crap.

  12. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 11, 2012 20:05:55
    ivory – I take it as a certainty that we will never be able to offer a financial package that outbids City.
    ———
    i take it a certainty that WENGER will never WANT to offer…. you’re so much in Wenger’s ass
    one day if God helps, I’ll make this club the best in the world. not just a money makin machine. once that happen, remind me your name, i’ll be glad to send you a ticket to follow Arsene to PSG.
    YOU, as a human being, can do ANYTHING; only your WILL or more to say lack of it, stop you. I aint takin your lack of ambition and acceptance of Wenger’s corporate lies as the truth. I know he lies, you know it too. but I don’t defend him.
    no point going further, you never have any actual argument to advance, only pure propaganda.

  13. jlp

    lol Kwik cant do it mate… too much of a coward to stay on the page long enough to get the title

    Its happening on my iphone 4gs at work Ivory
    No probs on the mac at home

  14. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 11, 2012 20:20:55
    Ivory – you were talking about transfer profits, so our wage bill isn’t the issue in this debate
    ———
    i was talking about transfer profit, because that is why Wenger is getting paid what he is paid, and what most people will recognize as a good job by Wenger.
    While I disagree, and state that even I could have done the same on that aspect.
    regarding wage bill, if you just ignore it, then fair to you, i suppose we dont need to pay the players; fukin idiot, the “moon would be great to live on if there was an atmosphere”

  15. albo

    Ivory – I’ve no idea what the second half of all that is about, but re the football matters:

    Just because Arteta was a late, panic signing doesn’t change how effective he’s been on the pitch. He’s been sensational for us in every game he’s played and is doing a job every bit as effective as, say, Xabi Alonso is doing over in Madrid. And your dismissal of Oxlade-Chamberlain is just glass half empty nonsense! He’s a very different player to Walcott, and simply declaring that he will end up being hopeless is just ridiculous. And by the way, Koscielny has to now be regarded as one of the best CBs in the premiership. (If we’re talking about transfer acumen, how about the fact that Kozzer and Vermaelen were both left-field signings that no one else wanted or had heard of that have both turned out the be 2 of the best defenders in the country!)

    And can we PLEASE leave behind the conspiracy theory nonsense that Wenger ‘lies’ about injuries. Wenger simply repeats what he has been told at the time by the medical team. In the real world that will, of COURSE, change, and Wilshere is a good example – he was on target to be back when we were told but then a second injury occurred. And we were told about that in the first press conference after it happened. In fact, we knew about it even before scans had revealed what the exact problem was! Claiming that Wenger deliberately mislead us or delayed the announcement is just a) a bit childish, and b) flies in the face of what actually happened!

  16. albo

    i was talking about transfer profit, because that is why Wenger is getting paid what he is paid, and what most people will recognize as a good job by Wenger.
    ——————————————————————————————

    Precisely. So the wage bill, whilst hugely important to the running of the club and to the general argument about Wenger’s competence, is not relevant to this particular debate…

  17. IvoryGoonz

    albo: again, if you talk finances you cant just look at Wenger’s profit and not look at the wagebill. I spoke about that in a particular context; that I actually disagree with people’s impressions he’s done great, and this despite the figure Wenger shows
    we all know the wagebill is shit; and you just refuse to talk about it because it doesnt suite your agenda, but it is as real as the transfer profit from Wenger, and actually part of the transfer deals, but some idiots, like you, only look at that actual net transfer, rather than realising that this did not include salaries, and that we are clearly fucked up on that side.

  18. albo

    Ivory – I’ll say it ONE more time, just in case you understand this time.

    a) YES the wage bill is hugely important
    b) It has little to do with your SPECIFIC statement that you could do a better job in the transfer market than Wenger, or to do with your SPECIFIC statement that Wenger has been worse in the transfer market than any other EPL manager.
    c) Furthermore, very few of the players that people think have been overpaid are recent transfers. Rather they are long term squad players who have underperformed. So again, not really relevant to your SPECIFIC argument about our recent transfer dealings

  19. IvoryGoonz

    albo: everybody is impressed at Total’s last profit, but completely ignore how that profit is made up.
    anyway, just another proof you cant have a real conversation, you dont see the big piture, and ignore people’s argument;
    i dont even know why i even speak with you, you cut sentences, ignore actual facts, and have no clue.
    “when the genius shows the moon with his fingers, the idiot look at the finger”
    I cant fill all your education, but there’s not even a debate to have.
    positive net transfer is the positive tip of the iceberg, but you ignore the 90 percent of the negative iceberg that is actually draggin that iceberg down.
    15m transfer profit this year?
    127m wage bill last season.
    you’re all right albo, positive net transfer is much more important than the difference between your actual yearly income and how much you pay your employees… another good reason why Id never have either you or Wenger as accountant or financial analyst.

  20. Bade

    Yeh Kwik!

    Hahahah

    Now listen to this:

    Barca lose the title to Real, Pep leaving…… So here’s an exciting manager

    And he might come with Cesc even 😆

    Oh and we can send him Bendtner, Denilson, Squillaci, Almunia and Arsene in return

  21. albo

    Ok, one last go.

    a) I have made it very clear that I DO understand how important the wage bill is in the greater scheme of things.

    b) I have NOT ignored your arguments, I have done my best to take your points and argue against them each in turn.

    c) You are now trying to make the argument about our general financial position, while the initial debate you initiated was about Wenger’s performance in the transfer market. A SPECIFIC aspect of that overall, general financial position.

    d) I am therefore trying to argue specifics. You are now attempting to shift the argument to generalities in an effort to move away from a position that seems indefensible…

  22. albo

    And by the way, re the wage bill, the ENTIRE £127 million isn’t poorly spent. The ‘wasted’ money (ie the overpayment on wages of certain players we all agree are overpaid) is only a small fraction of that. It’s probably less than the transfer profit we made actually…

  23. kwik fit

    I have a better senario bade.

    ‘arry goes to England
    Freidal retires
    King and Gallas cease to ever be fit again
    Bale and Modric leave in the summer
    Ade goes back to city

    Sweet !

  24. medfly70

    Wanted to come and check and see if after another great win if the commenters on here would still be moaning about Wenger and yep. Some of you guys are still at it. Some great ‘fans’ on here, but with the nonsense spouted in the articles on here, I’m not surprised.

  25. abnet

    is there a day with out moaning in LG is this a day to talk about replacing the manager and hating on our own players , whats the point of supporting your team (if you do that is) —
    , I’m sorry but this is enough for me bye never will come back in here again

  26. Pacman

    If someone doubts Wenger lying. Check his comments after the Twente game(CL qualifier). We had to wait for signings because we didnt know if we would make the CL.

    He said: When everbody sees who we are going to sign they are going to be very happy. I will now tell you who that someone was: Silvestre!! FFS

    Either you are deluded or you are taking the piss.

    That said, Wenger is no god, but he is not that bad either. The reason he had success i his first fewseasons is that he signed atlethic French players,had that femous back 5, had good nutrition, more seriosity, no more drink every night and very futuristic training regime. But now every club has up to date training mathers. And Wenger is to stubborn to evolve

  27. Pacman

    Adebayor 4 assist and 1 goal today, i bet city dont loan players to rivals again afther this season.

    Hope he fuckes off to Italy when the seasons finished

  28. albo

    Pacman – but I agree with you about Wenger. The reasons he was a world beater were all copyable – nutrition, fitness, scouting etc – so eventually he lost his great edge.

    And the areas he is not nearly so strong in are not so copyable – tactical genius, motivation etc etc – which is why Fergie has aged so much better.

    The funny thing is that there is so much scope for logical criticism of Wenger, but so little happens on here because people are so desperate to exaggerate at every turn. They think it strengthens their argument, when in fact it weakens it by making them seem a bit childish!

  29. IvoryGoonz

    albo: you’re arguing for arguing, try a bit of empathy and understand why i talked first net transfer and then put it in parallel with the rest of the financial situation; I know youalways defend Wenger, thats no news; now try to understand
    i’ll try again: “Hitler was a great leader” and “Hitler was a great leader of men”; he was a great leader for nazi men, but you’d never talk about him only about his leading qualities, and would never say the first sentence’s example unless you are a nazi yourself;
    anyone else will look at how may people he got killed;
    in the same way, praising Wenger’s transfer profit but ignoring all his mistakes, is just exactly the same thing, blind faith, AKB

    rohan: says who? who’s named after the most pompous kingdom of humans in LOTR? (I dont suspect you’d have picked it for the actual Breton family that in fact inspired Tolkien…), but anyway, rather than just provoking me freely, how about you actually bring some substance to your comment? piece of shit

  30. albo

    Ivory – you made a statement that you could do better in the transfer market than Wenger, and that many managers already did. I put forth a cogent argument for why you couldn’t and why they haven’t. You have failed prove me wrong. The end

  31. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 11, 2012 21:02:35
    And by the way, re the wage bill, the ENTIRE £127 million isn’t poorly spent.
    —–

    yeah, didnt say the contrary did I?
    still doesnt change that there’s easily 15m to save in this wagebill, and that would actually save you 15m per year without selling your best players…
    you should think and re

  32. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 11, 2012 21:41:57
    Ivory – you made a statement that you could do better in the transfer market than Wenger, and that many managers already did. I put forth a cogent argument for why you couldn’t and why they haven’t. You have failed prove me wrong. The end
    ———-
    the end for you, you have proven nothing; just avoided the actual real debate, i just cant be bothered with you, you’re a waste of time like Rohan.
    and I still maintain I can do better than Wenger on the net transfer,
    keep transforming people’s words and ignore nuances, if you were actually interested in a debate, you’d have asked me how I would do so, but you are not interested in it, just interested in shutting me down,

    Rohan: pompous really? I won’t even wonder what you think of Wenger…

  33. follow the money

    I’m not as gung ho as some to be rid of Wenger but what makes me furious is his inability to adapt and also his unwillingness to go the extra mile to plan for contingencies. It was clear as early as 2008 that the youth project didn’t have what it took to become winners without some veteran leadership of the quality sort and Wenger did nothing but keep hoping. Every season big players get injured and we have terrible backups that cost us points and games. Every season the team runs out of gas because he has run the starting 11 into the ground. Fergie cuts loose players that can’t hack it but Wenger keeps on hoping. Fergie doesn’t let young players into the first team until they are ready, Wenger forces us to suffer thru the growing pains (and dropped points) while he waits for his to come good. Every season 1 or 2 of his players comes good (like Kos this season) but he still fields enough mediocrity that we can’t win anything. Etc etc. And the result of this situation is that our good players eventually want out because the cycle continues and shows no sign of changing. Whether it’s true or not Wenger gives the perception of not being able to learn and he repeats the same mistakes over and over.

  34. IvoryGoonz

    pacman: I leave you with these fools, been saying many things in the past, I’ve never hidden behind excuses or rubbish circling around like Albo or Keyser.
    when an idiot like Albo jumps on one detail of my sentence, you have to realise they wilingly ignore all that’s already been said on here in the past,
    I dont, maybe because Elephants have huge memory…
    I can tell you, there’s no point talking with these guys, just a Total waste of time…

  35. IvoryGoonz

    RohanFebruary 11, 2012 21:56:42
    lol, Rohan’s my actual first name
    ———-
    now that was actually interesting…
    so how did you end up with that name? where your parents Tolkien fns?it’s not an usual name 🙂
    for info, it is the family name of one of Britanny’s biggest famillies, my dad’s familly is from that actual area, and as I said inspired Tolkien in parts.
    (I also believe Meriadoc’s final name was taken from Jules Hercules Meriadec de Rohan 😉 )
    http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maison_de_Rohan

  36. incesc

    just watched nearly the whole game on football first, what a bore untill the great goals at the end.

    hope the non handshake is more fun on motd now.

    what the fuck are we gonna do without henry?

    🙁

  37. gnarleygeorge

    Nursing a hangover as I write (hope I didn’t offend anyone last night)

    Sorry Arsene 😳 It would appear that I referred to him as merchandise passing through SAF’s hands.

    Anyway, not even a slight pain behind the eyes is stopping me from feeling great after that win 😀 I cannot believe that The Arsenal are now 4th after the poop that has happened this season.

    No more slip ups Arsene, please 😉

  38. IvoryGoonz

    kwik: Im fine actually, in Paris, just bought myself a small laptop for the hotel until I manage my full move out-in, and to stop exploding my iphone bill and be able to check out le grove 🙂 …
    went to great expo thursday, met couple english people living here (family and friends of 2 artist sisters), to give you a sample of what was said “im really amazed by French way of life, behaviour, they tell you ‘good morning’ everyday even if they dont know you”, and that to me was priceless, like meeting my new work colleage, english as well, who worked for same company as me in london, and agreeing on all the people we had problems with in the past… priceless.
    Got lot of things to achieve here, and lot of ambition, and not only for myself…

    but, i’m still not convinced by this team, and I still can’t see why Wenger didn’t spend at least to get a quality first 11 for the next 5 years before the FFP comes into place. if that was hard for Wenger to spend despite all the money available and without the FFP, knowing we wont be able to spend more in the future, I can only see more excuses coming from Wenger, Gazidis and Kroenke, paradoxal statement, for not buying top quality in the summer, and get rid of all the players most of us want out and while the perspective of Robin leaving is there, and really worries me.

  39. gnarleygeorge

    kwik

    Have u a song picked out for this winning occasion 😎

    Heres mine, mind u its time the away boyz released a new version after his most recent heroics

  40. IvoryGoonz

    kwik fitFebruary 11, 2012 22:39:43
    Ivory

    Have they not got undersoil heating in parc de princes ?
    The Ruby was cancelled.
    ——
    how would I know ? 🙂
    last time I went it was 18 years ago for a PSG-OM, and our bus got stoned by PSG hooligans… swore to never set a foot again in that place unless it was to de-assemble the stadium and the club 😉

  41. albo

    Don’t really understand your anger Ivory. I can only reply to the things you said. Didn’t misquote you or take you out of context. Tried to deal with the relevant issues, and you never really replied to them. Simply declared I wasn’t listening to you. I was listening. I disagreed, and I coherently explained why. Can’t say much fairer than that!

    You say I just go round in circles, but had you wanted to you could have offered the reasons you feel you could do better than Wenger (and by extension most premier league managers) in the market. You didn’t, you just avoided the issue and started talking about other things!

  42. albo

    reggie57February 11, 2012 22:54:55
    Henry in his pomp was a one man wrecking machine it was a privelageand a honour to watch him in the red and white!!
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Some of the youtube stuff of the invincibles (and previous seasons) defies belief. Hard to believe how incredible he was in his pomp. Pacey, FAR stronger than people think, athletic, could score from anywhere, incredible with the ball at his feet, and a finish from the gods! Legend!

  43. albo

    Lurch LeRougeFebruary 11, 2012 23:16:07
    jeez if your gonna tear strips of each other at least make it funny, think of us poor cunts would ya!
    ——————————————————————

    Haha, Sorry. It is a bit dull isn’t it…

  44. albo

    Man this was a good day. 4 teams up for 4th place and we’re the only one who got any points!

    I’m nervous about next week though. Not so much cos we can’t win the games – just cos I feel the intensity of the 2 games (plus another 90 mins on that dreadful Sunderland pitch) will lead to more injuries. I guess at least if we can get past them we have a whole week before Spurs…

  45. albo

    Lurch – was that what he was on about? I kind of ignored the bits that seemed not to make any sense! This is the problem with the internet – in real life you’d realise far quicker that you’re arguing with a nutter!

  46. Lurch LeRouge

    yeah we looked jaded for long periods today, about to watch motd but it was hard to make out how bad the pitch was on the shitty stream…

    we just looked lethargic… very lucky indeed

  47. Lurch LeRouge

    I think so, I like Ivory so I don’t wanna get in the middle but he does tend to go off on one sometimes – like the barrage of words will somehow force the argument through. less is always more.

  48. Lurch LeRouge

    don’t think the pitch should be blamed for his ankle, it didn’t look like he lost traction – need to see it again admittedly. He has played a LOAD of games without a preseason for us, in a more physical league in a team that plays a highline….

    I just think he’s likely playing in the orange and something went.

    if the pitch is to blame why no other injuries? ok some may be announced tomorrow, granted.

  49. incesc

    why do we always look lethargic?

    i guess sunderland had 10 men behind the ball for 90% of the game which is disappointing for a home team so we found very little space but still.

    i think we will see chamakh, park, djourou and all the losers next saturday, robin certainly wont play. FA cup is probably a write off unless we get lucky somehow.

  50. Lurch LeRouge

    don’t just mean our movement was lethargic but also our passing.

    we hardly won a 50/50 for the first 30 min because the ball moved so slowly – blame the pitch partially I suppose but still, its the same for both.

  51. albo

    You can see a big chunk of pitch come away as he plants his foot down Lurch. Classic dodgy pitch – too soft on top and too hard underneath…

  52. incesc

    yeah but that was an anomaly, last couple of months we have played well for 45 mins vs villa in the cup and did ok/got unlucky at city

    thats it really

    hopefully the shackles come off mid week

  53. leon

    was not the greatest perforamce i have ever seen was a bit off pace they went up against a well organised and well drilled team tough to breakdown but the got the victory thats all that matters realy

  54. albo

    But don’t forget, this wasn’t a shit team we were playing. They were the form team of the whole league and playing at home. Not many teams have got a point at Sunderland, so if we were playing a little bit with ‘ze handbrake on’ its understandable to some extent.

  55. zeus

    Can’t we just all get along.

    We won, just in case you were wondering. I’ve not a clue how it is we are in fourth place, but long live Andres villas boas.

  56. Lurch LeRouge

    yup agreed Albo.

    though we often find ourselves questioning desire, so its natural to levitate towards thoughts of a crisis in confidence & hunger.

    admittedly I laugh a little at the irony of some of us targeting the manager’s lack of tactical acumen yet we quickly become frustrated when we don’t fire out of the blocks at 120% every game.

  57. IvoryGoonz

    albo, and charles btw, the wonderfull analyst, I suppose you do understand the difference between net spent and outspending right? anyway, nuances? english?
    an analyst is actually supposed to understand sentences first, but whatever Gambon’s graph showed, was just net spent on players sales, and does not represent the reality of the situation. only shows raw data on transfer fees.
    if you accounted for wages that are inherent to the transfer fees, you’d realise how important it is, and why a graph like Gambon’s can be used in an argument, but not on its own to justify we dont spend, and even less to draw stupid conclusions in an argument because you didnt like what my main answer was and thought interesting about picking on the wording…. I havent seen you actually answering any of my previous posts apart to state stupid cliches, and all I saw from your earlier posts was agressing grovers who say what they have on their heart, not even trying to understand. and that is not the first time.

    anyway, lets try to make you understand this again without spending too long and not getting crazy…
    admitting Swansea buys a good a player for 7m gets a balance of -7
    Arseal buy a shit 1m player, a good 7m one, but sell a class one for 20m, balance +12.
    considering players bought will take registration numbers and wages, and that we pay bigger wages than Swansea, the actual situation is that we actually lost quality relatively compared to Man U, while Swansea was strenghtening too.
    yes there’s 12m more on our account at start of season, but that will be partly used to give new contracts to Diaby and the likes, and to pay higher wages than Swansea,
    wagebill is way higher, hence to make at least a workable comparison, you should factor in the actual wagebill.
    comparing net transfer spent to say basicaly Wenger has made more money on players sales only proves Wenger has weakened the team and replaced Diamonds by fakes.
    but you completely ignore all this is relative to our respective incomes.
    with emirates income, Swansea wouldnt hesitate to spend 20 on one player if their annual income was higher than 160m and a wagebill of 120.
    we dont need to have a positive net players sales balance to actually make profits.
    we dont have to pay all fees in one installment, and what you call net transfer spent is not what I call net transfer spent. I do include in that all costs and savings on wages. where do you account for Fabregas’ last year’s bumper and everybody’s raises and new signing on fees?
    thats typically where the +12 from transfer fees profit and at least a big percent of current income goes.

    now how would I have bettered Wenger’s record?
    Id have sold Diaby, Denilson, Almunia and others when we got an offer for them, rather than keep spending on them… I’d have bouht Gervinho before he went to Lille, would have saved 7m.
    Id actually have not let all experienced players go until the reserve players were up to take on their place, and Id spend 50/50 on youth/first team and on proper adaptated coaching, that would mean after 15 years an academy actually producing at least more quality players from young age and not rushed, a la Masia, than what Wenger has done with our money. you wouldnt need to buy as many players and have such a turn over of personel, as well as selling your unwated youth players for higher than us now, as they’d be much, much better.
    I’ll keep all the details on players development as i have my own methods, and won’t give them away on here, I eventually plan to use them some day…
    when you see how many players have gone in and out, you’d probably find out Wenger has the record for the amount of transfers he did.
    but its not the quantity that matters, its quality. if the quality of players comin in was higher, everything else would follow. right now, you’re just killin your own business by penny pinching, losing customers, precious experienced emloyees, and trophies.

    finally in matter of data analysis, thats my passion and job since 16 years, in a domain that is far more complicated than finance, or football, and I wouldnt be doing it in that same industry for so long if I was rubbish at it.

    always start because you cant let someone moan… so you moan at the moaner, and this tends to push me to moan at you because you moan about other people because they moan and letting someone do to another what he wouldnt want to be done to him has tendencies pushing me to show that irony to him. you’re obviously a true fan anyway, and much better american fan thn me, happy whatever the outcome. I want the best for the club I support, and this is just a fukin joke.

    at the end of the day; there’s more and more every year on the accounts, despite wage raising, there’s enough to replace Fabregas, Nasri and Adebayor, and a cleaning is still needed.
    And I do maintain I would do a better job than Wenger.
    he only got a small degree in economics, and played football a bit.
    some companies trust me with their data and give me responsibility on more money than is worth the club, and I always delivered.

    If the fact Im confident in my abilities pisses you off, well, not my problem.
    I know what Im worth, I know why I chose this current life, and I know where Im going.
    judging people’s ability before they even have a chance to prove it and without even trying to understand, is, well, I’ll let you find a word for it.

  58. albo

    Lurch – I think there is an interesting psychological thing going on with a portion of the Arsenal support which is that their understandable frustration with some areas of the club (the transfer policy, the manager’s tactical acumen etc) has led to them adopting this bizarre and unrealistic level of expectation as to what constitutes an acceptable performance.

    What is odd is that their own analysis of our squad’s limitations ought to cause them to LOWER their standards of expectation on a match day. And yet the opposite happens – they go totally batshit crazy when this team that they have already dismissed as hopeless actually have a bad game!

    (Re our team’s desire, I actually think that on a lot of occasions in the last few seasons our problem has almost been too MUCH desire. The CC Final I see as the best example of a team that choked because they were SO FUCKING DESPERATE to get that first trophy…)

  59. Lurch LeRouge

    yes Albo.

    I can see that, and the more it becomes twisted which party (club/AW) is responsible the more batshit we become.

    I’ll leave you to the novella, I hear your publishers getting fidgety.

  60. Lurch LeRouge

    Yes Ivory,

    you should also know that barely anyone reads those posts through, they wander across the spectrum of humanity and lifes too short mate – holding peoples attention span is half the battle of winning an argument .

    streamline that motherfucker!

    haha

    hasta.

  61. albo

    Ivory – re the opening paragraph, it always makes me laugh when people on here pretend that I am stupid, or might not understand the nuance of their argument, or might not understand English. Even if you disagree with every word I say, surely you can see that I at least have the intelligent to a) construct an argument with b) a decent, and coherent structure in c) properly formulated and correct English grammar.

    This, by itself, suggests a higher intellect than a whole host of posters on here that you seem to think are marvellous simply because they say ‘Wenger is a cunt’ every so often, so why pretend that you are talking to a moron who won’t understand what you’re writing?

  62. incesc

    aye thats what i think albo, too much pressure at the club, especially for the youngsters

    it was a horror show of a summer and someone should have been sacked.

    around half the team are in their arsenal debut season, and loads of new kids too.

    if jack had been thrown in this year, as opposed to last year with cesc and nasri , i wonder if he would have got similar reviews/stick as ramsey.

  63. incesc

    sorry in advance ivory but you are an easy target sometimes.

    remember last week i think it was when you wrote one of your essays actually during a game!!!

    haha

    😀

  64. incesc

    RIP Whitney Houston

    and more importantly the express says 12m and bendtner for sessegnon

    not sure if i believe that, its too convenient after we’ve played them

  65. IvoryGoonz

    albo:
    What is odd is that their own analysis of our squad’s limitations ought to cause them to LOWER their standards of expectation on a match day. And yet the opposite happens
    —————-
    lowering fans expectations is exactly what I said myself was what Wenger was doing over the years, and exactly what I fight against. I thought you were aware of that by now.
    by making some believe 4th spot and finance trophies is more important than titles and real trophies, slowly installing this pseudo-sustainable model is what is hampering the club’s natural progression.
    transparency should be obvious.
    exacly the reason why you will always have fans who have ambition for their club showing their discontent about the way it is currently run.
    It’s like seeing a billionaire shoping at Aldi.
    Arsenal deserves better than 4th spot hopes.
    we should be competing with Barca and Man U.
    We are now competing with Tottenham.
    and some wants us to get used to it.?
    fuck that.
    if I manage my plan for the next 30 years, count on me to actually make sure it happens.

  66. albo

    incesc – couldn’t agree more. Every time I think about the summer it just makes me crazily angry how it happened. I mean how can ANYONE running a club contemplate losing players of Fabregas’ and Nasri’s quality and not have at LEAST 1 world class replacement lined up?!

    The really galling thing is that, disappointing as it was, if we had even done the business we eventually did but 2 months earlier we might still be in the running for the title! (He’s derided as a panic buy by many, but I think I’d take a fit and motivated Arteta over a half-fit, wantaway Fabregas)

  67. IvoryGoonz

    albo: and your last post proves you’re just a lazy motherfucker, without any respect for people and yourself first.

    lurch: I suppose you’re right. I don’t know why I bother reading some people’s posts and take the time to actually answer them. I suppose I give too much attention to some and should stop reading comments longer than 140 characters.

    incesc: maybe an easy target in your opinion, although there’s a difference between targetting and finishing, but that kinda define the kind of shooter you are too when you shoot on an easy target. who said sometimes losing is winning?

  68. zeus

    “Ivory – re the opening paragraph………”

    Hahaha. Not gonna lie ivory, started reading but then I saw the length of it and quit.

  69. albo

    Ok – 1st point about Wenger ‘weakening the team’ by selling players. Actually our league position has remained remarkably consistent since we moved to the Emirates, so I’m not sure there is huge amounts of evidence that we have weakened season after season thanks to player sales. We may have done this season, but then, right now, we’re 4th,which is where we finished last season, so arguably, maybe we haven’t!

    [I think the problem is that we don’t seem to have IMPROVED the squad each season, but I’d argue that most of our squads of the last 5 seasons have been roughly comparable. Eg this season we lack magic in the centre of the park but are FAR better at centre back. A few seasons ago we had goalscorers coming out of our arses but the worst keeper in the world.]

    Secondly, to make the profit on the sold player, Wenger had to spot him, buy him cheap and make him better so that we made the £12 million in the first place. You seem to think this is an unimpressive skill, but NO ONE does it like Wenger does. It might suck that we end up selling our best players, but you can’t moan about us selling world class players and then moan that Wenger never gets us world class players!

    What you seem to be doing in a lot of the rest of the post is pointing out, with hindsight, the handful of areas we all know the club has gone wrong. But in your grand plan you assume you can do the things we do right better? I hate to be unkind, but it all sounds very pie in the sky and, dare I say, delusional! You have secret, unknown plans to develop youngsters?! Then go pitch them to some football club and go win the CL! But until then, you just sound like a bit of a keyboard warrior, certain that something very complicated is very easy!

  70. albo

    albo: and your last post proves you’re just a lazy motherfucker, without any respect for people and yourself first.
    ————————————————————————————

    Er, care to explain which post you’re talking about? Dude I just waded through your 10000 word essay, which I can promise you no one else on here just did I feel I deserve a little credit for that 🙂

  71. albo

    IvoryGoonzFebruary 12, 2012 01:43:16
    finally, ref the length of the comments, maybe Im actually interested in communicating that to the people who do take the time to read such long posts.
    ————————————————————–

    I’m very happy to read (and write!) long posts but, and I genuinely mean this as advice rather than to be unkind, you could lay them out slightly more clearly – shorter paragraphs, clearer grammar etc. It can be very difficult to quickly read and take your point when it is so garbled!

    Simple things like capitals at the start of a sentence actually really help the reader to zone in on where one point starts and another begins etc etc.

  72. IvoryGoonz

    albo: everything can be split in very simple steps. you are the one thinking everything even the simples things are complicated.
    ref Wenger’s dog breeding skills, you get experts for each areas. why put all powers into one person’s hands who is by definition bond to make errors rather than adding other views and expertise?
    ref selling world class players not buying them, if we had kept our world class players, we would have won titles.
    we are being sold a youth project but answer me, how many players from the current 11 have come at the club as under 11?

  73. IvoryGoonz

    alboFebruary 12, 2012 01:08:43
    Ivory – re the opening paragraph, it always makes me laugh when people on here pretend that I am stupid, or might not understand the nuance of their argument, or might not understand English. Even if you disagree with every word I say, surely you can see that I at least have the intelligent to a) construct an argument with b) a decent, and coherent structure in c) properly formulated and correct English grammar.

    This, by itself, suggests a higher intellect than a whole host of posters on here that you seem to think are marvellous simply because they say ‘Wenger is a cunt’ every so often, so why pretend that you are talking to a moron who won’t understand what you’re writing?
    —————–
    ask yourself the question. some might call it humor.

  74. zeus

    Ivory

    I actually agree with that. I’ve read longer posts, but u need clearer paragraphs, double spacing between even. It just looks like too much work. I was actually going happily along till about 1/2 way.

    I’m just an occassional blogger, and have little interest in putting in serious time into discussing something that I can’t control, it’s not like Wenger is an elected official we can vote out; but I enjoy the back-and-forth on occassion.

    And now we lose the singer of a generation Whitney Houston. She stood heads and shoulders above Mariah Carey, Celine dion and christina Aguilera to name but a few. A real shame. RIP

  75. albo

    Well, that’s a very specific definition of a ‘youth project’! And it slightly misses the point of the club’s modus operandi. It was never simply about youth. If there can be any summation of our policy it is simply that we attempt to always buy players we can improve. So perhaps a better question is simply ‘how many were recognised as of Champions League squad quality before they arrived’.?

    I would argue probably Mert, Arshavin, Rosicky and maybe Arteta are the only ones in our squad that fit that description… (though I’m sure I’ve forotten the odd one)

  76. albo

    ask yourself the question. some might call it humor.
    ————————————————
    But not very many…

  77. albo

    IvoryGoonzFebruary 12, 2012 01:53:52
    albo: that post was directed to you, if yourself didnt even read it, then why the fuck would I spend my time trying to COMMUNICATE ?
    ———————————————–
    I know, but it was VERY long for 2am!

  78. Gunner2301

    Albo

    By posting this

    “What is odd is that their own analysis of our squad’s limitations ought to cause them to LOWER their standards of expectation on a match day. And yet the opposite happens – they go totally batshit crazy when this team that they have already dismissed as hopeless actually have a bad game!”
    ———————————————-

    You’ve just proved that youve been taken in by Wengers propaganda to lower fans expectation to the point where they accept mediocrity. It probably happened to you by stealth but that’s how good Wenger is. 4th probably seems like a trophy to you as well. Sorry mate own goal there.

  79. IvoryGoonz

    Albo: now you’re being picky again. ref the length of the post. you do realise I type on a keyboard that Im not used to, on a small screen,on a french keyboard while Im used to a UK one for the last 15 years, and that english is not my first language and dont have english corrector installed yet, as well as I try to answer as quick as I can to not let you wait for an answer, right?
    you do understand that Im not here to make your life easier either but also that some tolerance has to happen while I consider I write ok considering circumstances… I’d like to see how you write a french dissertation.

    Now when I actually want everybody to read my post and broadcast some actual facts, I do take more time. Some know.

    Anyway, I saw too much animosity towards some posters from you today and they have all the right to say they are not happy despite the win, without having someone to tell them to not moan because we won a game. some do not have a short memory, and some do not forget easily, but everyone is free to say what they want…

    When I say something about Wenger or the club, that is MY opinion, if that’s what most think, cool, but Im just voicing my opinion, as hard as it is.
    and telling fans to lower their expectations just is so much corporate bs I cant take it; sorry, but our fans and deserve better.
    good night.

  80. IvoryGoonz

    gunner2301
    yes, as a great philosophe said lately, with lot of humility, “mediocrity is the new freedom” 🙂 so sad for those who’d like me to, but I aint giving up on us winning EPLs and CLs in the future 😉