Wenger is a genius, but won’t win the league.

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So says Steve Bruce. Not a lot to say about that but for someone who has had more players off us than Barcelona, he ought to be a bit more respectful to the Arsenal.

I’m not going to dwell too much on the Sunderland game, we didn’t deserve to win because we didn’t win, we had a player stupidly sent off, the referee allowed 17 seconds past the clock and we missed a penalty.

I’m not going to talk about the sending off save to say I think if a defensive player gets booked so early on, and hasn’t the intelligence to stay out of trouble for the rest of the game, then it’s time the management took them off at half time.

Wilshere got booked for a rash tackle in the first half when he was playing badly, the second half he used his brains and avoided confrontation, he also at the same time raised his game, enough said.

As for the referee adding on another 17 seconds, give me a break, we should have cleared the ball from the corner, don’t blame him, blame us, 4 minutes is the minimum not the maximum and the corner was good for at least another 30 seconds, yes Dowd wasn’t great, but tell me a time when we had a ref that was.

As for the penalty miss, yes he should have at least hit the target, but come on, he missed a penalty, he didn’t eat his grandmother. He missed and we drew, a point at the stadium of shite wasn’t bad, they did beat shitty didn’t they.

I’m  more concerned about this week, Tuesday to be more precise, I hope like hell he realises how much beating the scum means to us, it’s not an irrelavant fixture, it’s the league cup and it may be the only trophy we can win this season, Arsene, don’t disrespect the fans, play a strong team, not a youth team.

Years ago you used to mix it up, the last time we played them in this cup, you played Bendtner, Ade and Cesc and we still lost 5-1, they will be unbearable if they win and my month will be ruined, blimey, I still haven’t got over the last time they won in this cup.

So who should we play then?


Eboue Kozzer Djourou/Vermaelen Gibbs

Rosicky Nasri Eastmond

Vela Chamakh JET/Afobe

Chamakh is gagging to play boss, don’t disappoint him, I put Vermaelen in if he’s fit, if not the Djourou, I also put JET or Afobe in case one of those isn’t ready.

I think it’s time to drop Arshavin, Song and Denilson and try out a few new combo’s but not a youth team. I think this team would be good enough to beat the spuds, they won’t field a team of kids as they think we will, plus it’s at shitehartlane and they will have their home support, time to take this competition seriously and time to blend youth with experience.

I hope he does, because I would sooner win this than go out at the quarter finals in the champions league, how can it hurt? Our next game is against whipping boys WBA so we don’t have to worry about losing that game to fatigue, play a youth team against them if we have to, as we could still win that with our kids, give the babies a run out against them, at least we will still have 30 odd games left if it goes wrong, lose to the spuds and that’s one comp gone.

Time to practice what we preach and manage with intelligence, letting the kids lose to the scum will teach them nothing, safe how to lose bragging rights.

Come on Arsene, time to give something back.

Have a great day grovers, this could be a great week.

491 Responses to “Wenger is a genius, but won’t win the league.”

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  1. arsenal4ever

    clichy brillant? What drugs did you take? He was at fault for the equaliser simple as that!!! Gibbs way better!!! FFS we should have paid the 5 mill more to hold on for Cashley!!!

  2. loneranger

    When does Song’s 1 game suspension kick in. Is it possible for him to make the game against spurs or is the spurs game the one he will miss due to suspension.

  3. gambon


    None of the mistakes he makes have anything to do with cover, just poor play.

    I suppose Rosickys penalty miss was due to poor cover?? and collective bad play, such is your desire to have everyone believe none of our players ever do ANYTHING wrong, its always collective errors.

  4. Keyser

    Surferosa – Where were the Sunderland players ? Were they in line with Clichy ?! I can’t remember exactly now.

    Also he starts back-tracking when he sees the ball coming back in, the Sunderland players were in line with Koscielny as it is.

  5. RockyPires

    Hello all,

    Just quick one on my takings from the weekend, ya we lost two points but hopefully we can learn from this.
    Kos was superb, top class options in defence now. Squillaci reminds me of Bould,solid unspectacular.

    A good point all the same but we must learn from this game.

  6. Keyser

    gambon – Don’t be a complete cock, you’re putting the blame on one player, like you always do, you have to pick on one player and exaggerate everything to the point it’s suddenly a catastrophe.

    Wtf are you talking about ? What’s the penalty miss got to do with it now ? Are you saying Clichy wasn’t to blame for us dropping two points ?!

  7. Surferosa

    I dont see a witch hunt to be honest QoS (now Song, thats different). I like Clichy- I just think he needs to up his game. And he has simply made too many mistakes recently. When he was injured last year, AW had to throw Gibbs in- and he did well. I think Gibbs deserves a run; and I dont think it will do Clichy any harm. Sometimes just by being out of the limelight for a month or so helps you refocus. What with the fiasco of the French World Cup- I think he just needs a break.

  8. Keyser

    QoS – It’s like people blaming Clichy for Barcelona’s goals at the Emirates, because it was somehow on his side of the pitch.

  9. wattsy65

    Hi Geoff

    Just a few comments about time added on at the end of a game,surely this could all be sorted out by getting rid of the word Minimum, the 4th official puts up on his board that there will be 4 minutes of added time,the ref has no say in this, and exactly 4mins is what gets played. No substitutes are allowed beyond the 90 mins of ordinary time, unless there is a serious injury.If there is a stoppage the clock stops ticking until the game restarts and the 4mins is played out, each team can waste as much time as it wants by fair means Taking over a specified amount of time say 15 secs to get the ball back into play at a throw in or goal kick results in a red card.

    Everyone now knows exactly where they stand, and we are not at the mercy of some ref who likes creative accounting.

    There are probably a few holes in this, but lets debate and see what can be sorted out.

  10. gambon


    For me the goal the other day isn’t really that important. You know I haven’t rated Clichy for a long time, Saturday was just yet another example, he makes so many mistakes its untrue, nothing to do with Arshavin & any lack of cover

  11. Sam

    Just a thought , why should there not be a rule which says, whoever wins the penalty should take the penalty. (For a handball, who ever’s kick was handed should do it) ?

  12. Stu

    Whos blaming CLichy for Barcas goals? I havent heard him being blamed for them at all. It was all Vermaelen and Song being blamed…and rightly so.

  13. Steve Biko


    spot on. The criticism of Clichy is over the top and is plain simplistic. We should have put the game beyond Sunderland. The longer it went one nil the more they believed.

  14. gambon

    I don’t see the point in blaming the clock. 50+% of games go over the allotted time, its no excuse not to defend properly

  15. Geoff

    Hey if we having a witch hunt can we blame Song, then Denilson. Almunia if there’s no one else and Fabianski.

    Clichy just needs two things, a breather and a set of longer studs.

    But for all of Wengers stats, you would think he can see why the boy keeps falling over!

  16. Stu

    It doesnt work like that Wattsy. If there was time added on for every stoppage then there would be 20 minutes of injury time for every match.

    As far as i know the rule is 30 seconds per sub and 30 per goal..unless its a match that manU are losing and its just play on until the mancs score.

  17. Keyser

    Stu – A&N/ Kushagra India yesterday, it’s just getting ridiculous.

    gambon – Of course he makes mistakes, ALL players do, there has to be some perspective to it and of course it has to do with Arshavin and a lack of cover, that might not be the only thing but it’s part of it.

    Clichy didn’t have a poor game against Sunderland, he made a poor clearance, even then Gyan fouls him, but look through the game and the sheer amount of pressure the defence had to deal with is not something that we should go through game on game.

    Squillaci also made a half-hearted clearance. I bet Clichy would have got just as much blame if koscielny had booted the ball off him.

  18. Geoff

    Wattsy, a big clock like the sceptics have at Basket ball games would do it, everytime the ball goes out or a player is injured, it gets stopped, that way everyone would know, now back to the witch hunt.

  19. Sam

    Talking about time, most managers make sure they make the available substitutions if they are leading and they want to run the clock down.

    We had 1 unused sub on Saturday.

  20. Surferosa


    Clichy ran out with the corner (he actually runs ahead of the defensive line by 3 or 4 yards- again out of position). When he realises there is going to be a flick on- he then begins runs backwards, leaving him 3/4 yards behind our defensive line- playing 4 (not 3!) Sunderland players onside- and dragging Kos back with him.

    But that aside- he could still have atoned. He actually had the time to put the ball out for a corner- back to Al- out to Sagna. But the blind panic forced the error.

    I like Clichy- and I agree with some of your comments regarding the lack of help he gets from AA (compared to what SN provides BS). But I could sit here and go through 2 or 3 key mistakes he makes every match. He was caught in possession in the 1st half on the edge of our box(not shown on MOTD); he ran into a blind alley with the ball in their half where we would of been struggling to cover- but got a lucky free kick.

    I dont know what it will take to get him to reach his potential (has it been reached?)- but at the moment- its not getting any better.

  21. Keyser

    wattsy65 – Won’t happen, football’s entertainment as much as a sport or business, people want nail biting climaxes or something to moan about.

    It’s almost a fans prerogative now.

  22. Sam

    e actually had the time to put the ball out for a corner- back to Al- out to Sagna. But the blind panic forced the error – Agree with this. Panic is mainly is his problem.

  23. samir masri


    I think that rosicky’s penalty did cost us abit.cos if he would had struck it in then I don’t think anybody would have been criticizing clitchy by know. cos what I’m saying is that it was all rosicky’s fault.

  24. Keyser

    Surferosa – Dude I’ve read your comments about his positioning and so on and I think you’re wrong. He’s good enough to match any winger one-on-one, and usually positions himself well.

    Losing the ball in their half isn’t really a key mistake and I remember the one where he stopped in the box, he does need to just resort to ‘if in doubt/ kick it out’ at times. Saying he got a ‘lucky free kick’ is a bit weak. You’re blaming him for hypotheticals.

    You could go through every player we have and find mistakes like that, Arshavin lost the ball about 6 times alone by the half-way line against Braga, and somehow people blamed Clichy.

  25. RockyPires

    Denilson had possesion prior to the goal,instead of run into corner etc he takes a potshot which Mino save comfortably, then boots down field which lead clearance being picked up by Sand, Deni commits himself in a tacke osses cover and they cross. He is also to bame if a witch hunt is on the cards….

  26. alan

    clichy is one of the best left backs in europe. if it wasnt for him sunderland wouldve won the game, how about the clearance off the line from denilsons header, he does that every week. this witch hunt is well out of order.

  27. rico

    ‘Arry ha just said No Gallas tomorrow and no Chorluka or King – he couldn’t pronounce Chorlukas name after four attempts so called him Charlie… Very funny…

    Said the swampies will be protecting the players for the PL and CL….

  28. Keyser

    I didn’t want to watch it, but I just did, Squillaci makes just as poor a clearance, whacks it off Gyan’s arm, saying he’s got time to clear it out for a corner is rubbish.

    It’s the 94th minute, the balls just come back in from a flick on, he’s raced back to get there, turns around and knows he has two players behind him, Gyan even fouls him as he makes the clearance.

  29. Steve

    Coach Bruce has seen all the mileage Fat Sam has got with the media by ragging on Arsenal and Wenger and so he is looking for 15 mins of fame by now doing likewise…..be careful Mr Bruce, you may become known as Fat Steve, stop sitting on the sideline and start spending your games eating in the stands….and worse still, start having delusions of grandeur and think you really are a good manager!

  30. Surferosa

    Buy Keyser- your analysis is missing 2 crucial points.

    1) He is a defender. If he loses possession when he has advanced ahead of the opposition midfield and loses it- then we are suddenly open for a counter, especially if some of our midfielders are already committed to an attack (as they were). We would of been outnumbered at the back- that is a key defensive error.

    I have no problem with him losing possession from a dribble when the opposition is set around their penalty area- its a worthwile risk. This is different- it can create a goal-scoring opportunity when we are most vulnerible- it is a key mistake. In terms of a lucky free kick- replays Ive seen shown that the foul was soft- there was no contact. He fell-over.

    2) Ive said I though AA was dire- in my ratings I gave him a lower score than Clichy. Ive also said I dont think he gives enough to Clichy in big/away games. But, those facts aside dont mitigate Clichy’s errors. It simply compounds them.

    3) I cannot find any other player that made as many positional or defensive errors either on Saturday- or the season so far. On the contrary- we looked more solid defensively on Saturday in a difficult away game than we have for some time (Clichy aside)- the lack of basic defensive errors was refreshing.

  31. Steve Biko

    Sam Allardyce says he is on an equal footing with Wenger

    I like what some Arsenal fan responded when he heard this. He urged the English media to stop doing interviews with Sam Allardyce in the pub! LOL

  32. samir masri


    your statistics about could be wrong mate. cos I think that clitchy rarely makes mistakes.but his mistakes normally cost us points.And I don’t blame him cos everybody makes mistakes.

  33. jay4741

    Arsene brought it on himself, Wenger Vs the rest of the Premiership
    all the media are out to get arsenal & wenger!!!!FACT

  34. Surferosa


    1) If you think this is the correct position for the Defensive Player to be in- then I cant say anything else. His backwards-run has single handidly pulled our backline out of shape, and allowed 4 Sunderland players to turn & begin running towards the goal (instead of either being played offside, or having to continue running away from goal). It also forces Squid to turn and run back in with him (if he hadnt, Gyan would of had a clear shot at goal).

    2) This is the moment he takes a wild slash at the ball. If he had any composure he could of knocked it out for a corner with his right- pushed it towards the goalline and ran after it or played a short pass to Al to clear. If he has done any of those 3 things I would be commending his maturity and composure. As it is- I am lambasting him for another error caused by simply panicking at the wrong moment- something he does frequently.

  35. ade

    the only thing i know so far after reading many comments abt clichy is that he is not as bad as they say he is..i agree completely about his dip in form though..and how many times have they seen gibbs play in the first team as in many run of games for you to say he is the answer right away.not saying he is bad…just a question.

    i just saw the replay..would the ball have gone out cleared properly if kozz leg didnt..

    if u have other valid point against clichy.i dont mind but not that game.he tried for me.am only worried about his decision making at times in the box..
    am sure we wouldnt have complained this much about clichy if rosicky converted the hard earned penalty.

    clichy can get better and gibbs is a very good deputy for me.with time gibbs can take over but not yet for me.

    just my view.

  36. alan

    clichys importance is only shown when hes missing, gibbs comes in, gives man utd 2 goals in cl semi, everyone starts praying for clichy to recover.

    seen it all before.

  37. Surferosa

    And thats the thing. I like Clichy. I still think he can come good. But, as Pedro said- take the guy out for a bit. All players have a dip in form. His form this year has been poor.

  38. Keyser

    Surferosa – I wouldn’t say they’re crucial.

    1. Some would argue he’s at his best when he just lets loose, the midfielders weren’t really committed to an attack, or at least they shouldn’t have been because, I’m guessing not sure, we were already a man down at the time.

    He did well to release pressure, and he’s done that well over the years, but and this ties in to the second point, he has to reign in his instincts because of the lack of cover.

    Remember him at the bridge 2 years ago when Chelsea were chasing the game and he broke up play as high up the pitch as he could and Ivanovic was lucky to stay on the field.

    The last time we’ve been solid as team he had the most interceptions in the league because he had Rosicky in front and Flamini covering, it mean’t we could start attacks high up the pitch and he could pre-empt attacks.

    Againsty Sunderland, there weren’t players to pass to, so instead of throwing aimless balls forward, there was a crossfield ball to Nasri I think that went 60 yards and was inch perfect btw, he ate up the space Sunderland afforded him and pushed forward.

    If Denilson had done that in the 92nd minute instead of shooting we might’ve dealt with the end better.

    2. Clichy has made mistakes, his form isn’t as good as it has been in the past, but when the defence comes under that much pressure for the majority of the game and then a player makes a mistake, then it does mitigate it, because you can’t expect the defence to carry the team completely.

    Soft fouls were the call of the day, Dowd was giving them all over the place.

    3. We looked pretty solid with Clichy in the team aswell, Wilshire had a poor first half and Clichy was left one on one throughout the half with their winger and blocked most of his crosses.

    Really this point is your worst, how many players have you watched from other teams and if you can’t find any then you’re really not trying at all.

    I’d look at Evra over the past week or so, He got completely done by Duff, nutmegged and caught out of position against Fulham, he tried an overhead kick on the half-way line against Everton and where was he when Torres was completely abusing Evans.

  39. gazzap

    Agree about Denilson – he should have taken it into the corner at 3 minutes into injury time. By shooting from 30 yards out what was he hoping for, goal of the season?! OK so it was a good shot but it still gave their keeper possession to get it back into our area within 10 seconds. Den could have kept the ball in the corner for 1 minute and we would have won.
    It wasn’t just Clichy’s fault.

    and now this morning I read Den telling the world we are going to win the league. Keep it shut, twat.

  40. jay4741

    Clichy is a liability always has been always will be, i want to see him dropped for a period of time ie: not 1 game 3 or 4 to give gibbs a susatined run in team to prove he should be No.1, if not see if clichy comes back hungry error free or still the same french liabilty.

    On another not i want to see a reasonably strong team at the spuds tommorrow night, we need to win this game for fans, momentum, bragging rights u get my jist we dont need a first defeat of the season by them cunts.

  41. goonermichael

    I find the Clichy debate quite funny when we have a player whou can’t hit the target from 12 yards. That was just as costly.

  42. Surferosa

    Im not comparing Clichy to other players. I couldnt give a crap whether Evra has a stinker or anything else. Im just analysing Clichy’s game on its own merits mate, just as Ive done with every other player (I still think many are wrong about Song- not from a perspective of whether he is good/bad- too subjective for me- but in terms of his role in the team and how effective he is at it).

    You say people are being overly harsh on him- I feel you are being overly defensive.

  43. Steve Biko


    spot on. That thing Denilson did was really silly and it has cost us before. Last year vs Wolves at home we were leading 1-0 at home from a very late Bendtner goal. We almost drew the game because we had a counter with seconds to go and Denilson once again! shot the ball at the keeper. Our draw with Birmingham at St Andrews came about when we kept on attacking needlessly.

  44. Keyser

    Surferosa – Dude can’t belive you’re using stills to illustrate your point.

    1. They weren’t in line with Clichy to begin with, Gyan uses Koscielny as his marker, he makes sure he’s in line with him, though I need to watch it again.

    At the point the Sunderland player heads the ball, Koscielny’s running back aswell, why ? Because at least two of the Sunderland players are onside as it is, they might not have been when the ball was booted back, but they are by the time the player heads it.

    Squillaci still makes a poor clearance.

    2. The ball loops over, he turns and knows they’res two players behind him, GYAN FOULS HIM.

    Exactly, you’re lmbasting him, when in the context of the game there’s soo many others players you could spend your ire on.

  45. Honest Bill

    Fuck playing the first team against the spuds.

    Did nobody see how tired all our players were against Sunderland?

    We need them performing at their peak in the Premier league. I don’t care if we play WBA or Chelsea

  46. gazzap

    I dont think any of the players that played more than 60 mins on sat will start tomorrow.

    My guess
    Eboue Nortveit Djourou Gibbs
    Randall Eastmond Denilson
    Afobe JET Vela

  47. samir masri


    that game was freaking nightmare mate. cos it took me a while to accept that we drew the match. cos three points were just standing right infront us.

  48. alan


    he slipped and park scored the away goal that meant the tie was over.

    if that was clichy, wed never hear the end of it.

    rosicky misses pen, koscielny gets outmuscled at bburn, arshavin misses sitters, song gets red, lets all blame clichy who cleared off the line at sunderland blackburn and liverpool, from headers at corners, and who was awesome when we went down to ten men, constantly carrying the fight on his own.
    gibbs isnt even in the same league, what a joke this whole argument is .

  49. Honest Bill

    Rosicky was the only player keeping us ticking over n that second half. Everyone misses the odd penalty. Why he didn’t start is beyond me, especilly when Nasri isn’t even match fit and has just played on the Wednesday..

  50. alan

    the only good thing about tomorrows game is that song serves his one match ban in it. other than that, pointless, even if its spurs.

  51. Keyser

    Surferosa – If you want to limit it to Arsenal players, where was Sagna for the Blackburn goal, Wilshire had a poor first half on Saturday, he passed the ball to Liverpool for their goal against us.

    I won’t even bother with Arshavin, because words would fail me, if you said you couldn’t pick out any mistakes he’s made, or if you think his positioning is good.

    Koscielny got outmuscled by Diouf, played a ball across to Lee for their goal. You’re the one that mentioned you couldn’t find any other players who’ve made as many positional errors on Saturday or the season so far.

    Did you happen to watch any of the midfielders against Sunderland, they were all over the place. It’s not being defensive, I’m trying to give you back some perspectuve.

    You’ve said yourself you’ve decided to lambast Clichy, in the context of the game, how many other things could you have pointed to that cost us just as much.

  52. Surferosa

    Its not ire. Im not angry. He was at fault for the goal (twice). You are refusing to see it- that is fine.

    But, when you are playing DC and you see the full back- from being too far in front of you- run back in behind you (as Kos & Squid do)- they cant do anything other than turn & follow. If Squid hadnt done this- the ball would of dropped to anyone of 4 Sunderland players (now all onside) with a free shot on goal. Its schoolboy stuff. Dont know what else to say?

  53. Geoff

    Steve, I think it’s funny, if he gets fined though, I bet Arsenal pay it.

    Samir, it was our own fault.

    With Song not playing tomorrow we have a chance, no Denilson and Fabianski, a better one.

  54. arsenal4ever

    @ samir masri: not released yet :-(. But will surely do. Tried the Fifa demo which is good but nowhere near “real” football imo. PES this year rocks and presents real football as best. But thats just my oppinion. The licence thing is no problem for me. Will wait for an editing file to sort it out. If I bought it I ll let you all know how good it is but already the demo is fantastic. Only the GK needs to be better but not that much. REally hard to open opponents defence!! Split passes ala Cesc working at its best.

  55. Steve Biko


    I think you are usually taking a piss! seriously how can you say that Song not playing tommorow is a good thing? Okay you are entitled to think he is a liability but the question is who plays in his absence when he does not play(Frimpong is injured). Be careful what you wish for as our midfield may be raped by the likes of Palacios and Huddlestone.

  56. Sam

    hmm Alan, you mentioned gibbs let 2 goals against Man U.

    Now you mention only one. Nobody talks about it much because he slipped and you cant think of many errors from him unlike clichy who repeatedly has done mistakes.

    TBF, if you read all the posts, no one is blaming clichy alone for Sunderland draw. All are talking about how he makes mistakes so often.

  57. samir masri


    I will try to find out when the actuall game is due. cos you already told me that you’ve played the demo. and if the demo is as good as you said then I can’t imagime the real one.

  58. Keyser

    Surferosa – 2.32/ 2.33 Clichy’s already in front of Squillaci before the balls played.

    All Gyan and the other Sunderland player have to do is stay onside when the flick ons played, Koscielny and Squillaci aren’t even looking at Clchy, if both had tried to step up at least one Sunderland player would’ve been clean through on goal.

    Squillaci doesn’t turn back because of Clichy, it’s because it’s way too close to call, no-one tries to play offside like that, you’re either left looking a like plum with your hand up in the air and they’ve scored or you get very lucky.

  59. Pedro

    I’d play Eboue in that holding role.

    I’m surprised he’s never been given a go… he’s mobile, he can defend, he’s very fast and he has a great sense of humour!

  60. ade

    keyser is spot on for me.
    gambon…am sorry to tell you this clichy has not done too bad to be dropped. kozz has fucked up twice and we concede afterwads.twice out of four goals wev concefed in d league.and i am very sure kozz is class..but mistakes happen and it depends on how much you are covered by your team.

    wenger goes for overall assesment of a player and not few mistakes made by the player..and thats why kozz and clichy are still in the starting squad.and am sure they will get better.

  61. Steve Biko


    are you serious? are you seriously saying we should experiment with Eboue as DM in a such a important game? Something tells me you are taking a piss.

  62. Surferosa

    @ Keyser. Thats precisely how teams are coached to play. You advance and retreat in a line. Its distinct from an offside-trap (which is what you are referring to)- which is to all push up quickly in a line.

    That worked perfectly well until Clichy backed off around 8 yards before El Hadj (or whatever his name is) got the flick on- 4 yards deeper than Squid (who was the next deepest man).

    I think Im going to bow out of this one. I have no axe to grind with Clichy. His basic defensive mistakes have provided the opposition with at least 1 key attacking / goalscoring opportunity per game (slighly higher). If you cant see it in this- you certainly wont see it in the others. So what’s the point?

  63. Keyser

    Surferosa – Bow out if you want, but your stats mean nothing unless you do it for EVERY player. You keep saying KEY mistakes or goalscoring oppurtunities, but at the same time are willing to put in hypothetical mistakes in aswell, because the ref gave a soft free-kick.

    There’s two ways to look at that offside line, it was ragged, Clichy was already in front of Squllaci, so in your opinion all Squillaci has to do is be the last one to step up when the flick on happens ?!

    That’s your view right ? At 2.33 watch the Sunderland player who’s looking across the line, he knows there’s going to be a flick on and he’s not running from in line with Clichy or Squillaci he’s running from deep.

    He would’ve been left clean through, you either step up and take the risk or you drop back and take the risk that way.

  64. Geoff

    Steve, I’d sooner play with 10 men that play Song again.

    And it’s taking the piss, not a piss. Just a heads up mate, I can’t speak Mongolian either!

    What the fuck happened to the witch hunt?

  65. Surferosa

    Mate- no offense intended; but Im bowing out simply because I cant win this one. I cant teach you tactics or defensive positioning on a blog. I cant demonstrate what a lack of composure is either. Ive tried. Sometimes, you gotta hold your hand up and say your beaten- which is what Im doing now.

    Clichy remains the best DL we have at the club (imo). However, on current form- he is probably the worst.

    On a completely different subject- just how much shyte are Liverpool in at the minute? When do they have to sell the club / reduce its gearing by? 6 October isnt it before RBS can sack the board and appoint their own?

    And now they are hit with this- Tom Hicks trying to raise more equity financing (which will undoubtedly be far more expensive due to the increased risk from non-CL qualification & current league position- not to say the state of the equity markets).

    The Scoucers are understandably pissed…


  66. Surferosa

    Geoff says:
    September 20, 2010 at 13:53

    What the fuck happened to the witch hunt?
    In your absence, we found them all and burnt them. Except Song- who turned out not to be a witch. He drowned instead.

  67. Keyser

    Pedro – Nah, he’s been poor by his own standards for a while, I think it’s been up and down though and he’s had good games and bad, he’s made poor errors that have highlighted it, and when you get fans on your back those mistakes seem to stick in your mind.

    Like if someone has a shit game, loses the ball several times in midfield and one of them leads to a goal later on or something that won’t be remembered half as much as if it’s with 15 seconds gone over the injury time.

    I don’t get how you’ve come to the conclusion though that I think he’s on top of his game ?!

  68. Geoff

    Ha, ha nice one Surfanosa, at least you are on my wavelength!

    I expect there will be other blogs that cut and paste my comments saying I have been demanding a witch hunt!

  69. Geoff

    Keyser, since he went over on his ankle against the spuds last year, he seems to do it once a game, but there again so does Sagna.

  70. Mayank

    Also a question for the ‘Chelsea have got it wrapped up’ers
    Would we have lost any of the matches they’ve played yet…

  71. Keyser

    Surferosa – By teaching you’re implying that you’ve got something to teach me, I get what you’re trying to say, I just don’t think it applies to this situation. Instead of focussing on the defensive coaching manual look at the attacking one, what should the Sunderland players be doing ?!

    Just because a coaching manual tells you that THIS is how you apply the offside trap, doesn’t mean it can’t be beaten, you must have witnessed Henry do it for fun hundreds of times.

    Basically you can look at all the coaching manuals you want but there’s some situations that require a judgement call rather than a definitive approach.

    I’m in the same position here, i think you’ve got it stuck in your head that if Squillaci’s the last man to step up, everything would have fine, because according to coaching manuals thats how the offside trap can be implemented.

    All it takes is one Sunderland player to beat the trap though and you’re fucked, which as you can see from the video there was more than a fair chance of happening. Nether Clichy or Squillaci took that chance.

    The rest is something else completely, and it’s one aspect of a game that last 90 minutes, which was full of other incidents that won’t get the same recognition that you’ve placed on this one.

  72. Surferosa

    Two harsh bookings Geoff, two harsh bookings.

    Though in the interest of proving my objectivity on these things, did you know that over the last 50 games- Song has averaged more yellow cards per game than any other Arsenal player (who has played in more than 10)? He gets 0.36 yellow cards per game on average.

    Compare that to someone like Essien- 0.09. Maybe you do have a point after all.


  73. Arsenal Tom

    “Fabregas and (Andrey) Arshavin were not on the pitch at that time,” he said.

    “Ahead of the kick I communicated with (Samir) Nasri and (Marouane) Chamakh but nobody wanted to take responsibility, so I did.”

    While admitting the penalty was a crucial moment, Rosicky insists his side should have still managed to take the full three points home.

    “In the first half we didn’t even have many opportunities,” he said.

    “Sunderland showed they could frustrate favourites and apart from our partly fortunate goal they did not let us have anything dangerous in front of their goal.

    “But after the break we were passing the ball around better and after Song’s sending off were the better side.

    “Then came the spot-kick, but even without it we should have managed to win. Naturally though, it was the key moment.”

    Fair play to him, at least he had the balls to take it

  74. Mayank

    Anyone think Hogdson’s playing ‘Pool like a small team?
    He seemed intent on not trying for more than 1 point at OT, Liverpool fans would never settle for that.

    I also think it puts in perspective the Moyes’s and O’Niels of the world. They’re good at making a team with limited resources but they’ll bottle it if they’re expected to win every match they play.

  75. Sam

    Ahead of the kick I communicated with (Samir) Nasri and (Marouane) Chamakh but nobody wanted to take responsibility, so I did – I am not sure about that. Anyone would want to have a goal added to their tally especially being in the lead. And this also says he wasnt confident.

  76. Geoff

    Surferosa it’s all I ever said, he gives away too many free kicks in dangerous positions needlessly. All that because he has no pace, and lacks intelligence (football intelligence)

  77. Surferosa

    Well- I still disagree on the pace point. You know I dont think you need pace to be good in that position. If by footballing intelligence you mean positioning, anticipation, movement- these are all things I believe he has shown some considerable improvement in.

    You have at least put some doubt in my mind on the unnecessary conceeding of free kicks though. Something Im gonna watch out for.

  78. Mayank

    I actually think Song has good football intelligence but bad adaptability to situations.
    He can obviously read the game well but struggles when he’s faced with a unusual situation.
    Like when he gave a throw-in against Stoke instead of a corner.

    In the Sunderland game it was obvious the ref was looking to book Arsenal players so he should’ve played accordingly.

  79. vfabre

    My team against the spuds

    Eboué – Kos – Verm’ – Gibbs
    JET Afobe Vela

    If fit, Vermaelen needs to have some game to be on pressure again. And, as far as I’m concern, Kozzer will be second choice behind Squillaci, so He can play the Cup. I’m afraid Djourou will not make it. I mean definitly, even I’m sorry for him. I put Afobe (realy good with Reserve) but I’m still hesitated with Chamakh, who was deeply concern by the Derby, and as TheGoonBlog, I like when He calls Tottenham “The Ennemy” ^^.
    About Song, first, He would’nt have play on Tuesday anyway, because He was booked. Second, I agree about his lack of focus after the first yellow, but in first halh, Wilshere wasn’t very helpful, specially in defensive action. So Alex has to do the job all by himself.
    Finally, about Clichy : He’s doign great game, maybe sometime to far from his opponnent, but I think He’s still stronger, faster and mature than Gibbs. On Sunderland’s last goal, Gyan commit handball, Squillaci failled his header and Koscielny was oupasted but touch the ball. Gaël was on a rear run, so close to the net. He tries, but was a bit unlucky. Not sure a lot of defensive players would have put this ball away.

  80. A

    jet would play in the middle rather than afobe, much more suited to that role atm than him. afobe won’t start, but if he was to play it wouldn’t be centrally i’d very much doubt.


    nordveit squillaci jd gibbs

    rosicky denilson wilshere

    eboue jet vela

    there’s your team, will give spuds a spanking

  81. Honest Bill


    we were still winning after he missed that penalty. He also didn’t force Arshavin to miss sitters. didn’t force the entire team to bottle it before he’d even got onto the field. He was our best player and the only reason our goal wasn’t completely battered in the second half..

    So no, it wasn’t his fault at all

  82. Surferosa

    You cant apportion blame to any one individual for Sunday. We had opportunities to score a 2nd earlier (AA had at least 2), win the game (TR pen), kill the game (Denilson) and save the game (Clichy). All those errors / misses collectively cost us 3 points.

    I look at Clichy as the most culpable becuase all the others were things that can happen; things that shouldnt prevent you from going on to win. Clichy’s was the hardest to stomach because it was a such a basic defensive error.

    Next up would be Denilson. Having watched it again and seen TR steaming down the right- it would of been such a simple ball to play and inevitably taken it into their corner flag. Its what any other team would of done- hell, its what we USED to do. But he went for glory instead and 2 minutes later they score.

  83. gib

    This season song has given away 12 free kicks, of which 3 have been in our half and only one has been within 30 yards of our goal. this is from the guardian chalkboards. when is he giving away fouls in dangerous positions? i’m not saying he’s never done it but it hardly seems to have been a feature of his play this season.

  84. A

    I wouldn’t say he went for glory Surferosa – he tried to kill the game off.

    I don’t think you can blame anyone, I’d say that it was a good defensive performance until the last second, whole team held up well, apart from a couple of clichy fuck ups

  85. Surferosa

    Thats what hurt the most A. It was an excellent defensive display on the whole.

    Still, last couple of years- were struggling to draw that game. This year- we are genuinely unlucky not to win. Thats got to be progress.

  86. A

    a win there would’ve been big imo surfer, we’ve had three big tests, drawn twice and won once.

    Chelsea have had no testing games yet, gonna have to wait and see how they do when they have a real opposition to play.

  87. Surferosa

    I agree A- said as much before the game. I felt a win their would show that we have the ability to be in with a real chance this year.

    As it is, my optimism is dented somewhat simply becuase the manner in which we conceeded late has happened sooo many times before. Still crap load of poitives to take though.

    And not a bad result. Time will tell (and that game against Chelski is looking really big now).

  88. Surferosa

    Oh- and my gut feel is we need to win 12 games away minimum this year. Weve won 1 so far from 3. Assuming we dont beat ManU & Chelski at their place, I reckon we have to win 11 of the remaining 13. Which when you throw in Citeh, Stoke, Spuds, Everton, Bolton- there’s some big challenges to come.

  89. Gooneroo

    Arshavin’s brief cameo’s in the few games leads us to beleive he’s better than what he really is. He needs to perform on a regular basis if he wants to be considered world-class.

  90. Surferosa

    Thats my fear Tom. It will be interesting to see how they fair if they start picking up injuries (which, given the age- they could do). I dont see their ‘squad’ being stronger than ours anymore- just their starting 11.

    Who do they lose for the African Nations Cup though? Essien, Drogba, Mikel? That will hurt them more than us losing Song & Chamakh I feel. If we are to have a chance- we have to be close to them at that point- within 3 or so points I think.

  91. Arsenal Tom

    “We don’t know yet [about Cesc],” he said. “It is difficult to say. He has a hamstring problem but I can’t tell how long he will be out for.

    “Any speculation would be wrong today because we have not had the scan.”


  92. DaleDaGooner

    Don’t know if this was covered or corrected, But Redknapp is going to play his kids and second stringers as well, so why the moaning? They have it tougher than us, they want to go further in CL and they have injuries as well, i can’t see the Spuds fielding Bale and the senior players they have. As long as Bale isn’t playing, I’m cool.

    On Song, well, don’t we love to make scape goats, I know Pedro and Geoff would love that he played rather bad just to prove he isn’t worth the hype. Truth be told, He was clumsy, and i knew he would get a second yellow, it was a combination of cunt ref and Song himself, how could Bramble not get sent off? he had at least 2 yellow card offense waived off. And don’t you lot get tired of moaning about Arshavin? He is not playing he natural position, which is always behind a striker, you lot want him running up and down the wing, when he isn’t a winger. Clichy, i hate to be the usual moaner, but yes he has cost us games and that beckons an inquest into his mental strength.

    I am happy Koscielny and Squillaci proved the doubters wrong, All of a sudden Almunia is looking safe.

    Rosicky cost us that game period, i just knew he shouldn’t have played that peno.

  93. Kreshnik

    good news that Pedro, we do need him for Chavski, even though if you’re a stats man he wouldn’t be missed that much.
    That Chavski game is really big now, I would take a draw hands down but let’s see