This plane is crashing, and no one can stop it… Ratings and match report

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Wenger Airlines. Who wants to get off?

Wenger Airlines. Who wants to get off?

In 1989, a British Midland’s 737 attempted an emergency landing at Kegworth Airport. Cabin crew had alerted the pilot mid-flight that an engine was on fire. Normally this problem is resolved by shutting down the engine that is on fire and landing at the nearest airport using the other engine. On this fateful day, the Captain accidentally shut down the wrong engine. As the Pilots could not see the engines from their seats, they assumed everything was ok… However, cabin crew could still see the smoke billowing from the engine as could the passengers… but no one said anything until it was too late. They all assumed the Captain knew what he was doing. The plane crashed just before the runway and 47 people died.

An extreme story… but I am a football fan and I feel extreme emotions.

Arsene is our captain, he’s shut down the wrong engine and there is no one on the plane who is willing to tell him he’s made a mistake… Our plane seems to have been in free fall all season… but it’s getting to the point now where even if he does realise his mistakes… we’re still going to crash.

Aston Villa play today and if they win, we will be 8 points behind them with 11 games to go. Not insurmountable, but judging by today’s performance, and the previous 2 months… you’d say it’s going to be a big ask.

The starting 11 was the most exciting of the year. Finally we got to see Vela out wide, finally Wenger took a bit of a risk and lined up with a bit of flair… but when it came to the crunch, the players let their leader down.

Today felt like a backwards step… the whole day felt flat, devoid of any urgency… devoid of any realisation the we might be playing in something called the ‘Europa Cup’ next year.

The fact of the matter is that we were promised a team that would contend for the league this year and now we’re in a situation where we are struggling to gain entry to the Champions league. This could be a failure of catastrophic proportion… I am not exaggerating… if we are struggling for money now, imagine the ramifications of losing out on the gold mine that is the Champions league?

So what went wrong today? Well… I’ve got a few observations…

1. Leadership: A question you could only answer if you were there… or watching on an extremely good feed… Who is leading this team? Who is making sure all lost causes are chased down? Who is there to scream at players who aren’t giving 100%? No one… no one wants to take that sort of responsibility. The team spirit today wasn’t there today… the players don’t fight for each other.

2. Motivation: Motivating players to play in the big games is easy… but if you can’t motivate them to play in the minor games, then something is up. Those players today couldn’t have looked any more uninterested in the second half. The manager has to be questioned on this subject… why can’t you motivate your team? Is it because you can’t bullshit players… if all of us can see our weaknesses… I am pretty sure our players can as well. They know as well as we do why we’re failing and that must be pretty demotivating. It has been pointed out that the players looked unfit in the second half, I’d agree… but these are professional athletes… aren’t big players supposed to drive through that barrier?

3. Winning mentality: Where has it gone? I’m half expecting Wenger to come out in his next interview and tell us, ‘It’s not the winning, it’s the taking part that counts’. A winning mentality should run through the club… but it doesn’t. Hillwood reckons 5th will be ok, Wenger cited Milan as missing out this year… so he thinks it’s ok… So where are we on this? When did we stop being a football club? If the coach and the chairman don’t believe in winning… why would the players?

Wenger said to judge the players at the end of the season. I’m interested to know what that means? If they fail, like most people think they will… what will the coach do? I’ll take a wild guess… persevere… again.

4. Responsibility: This kind of ties in with leadership… Today, no one took the initiative in the final third. Like the passengers on the plane… they assumed someone else would take the lead… when everyone thinks like that, you have optimum conditions for ‘crabbing’. Today we saw exactly that… Their goalkeeper made a few smart saves, but I didn’t feel he was really worked. No one was brave enough to take the initiative and have a go. 4 goals since at home since November the 8th…

We can’t even brag about how we dominated the possession… because we didn’t… Fulham tipped the scales in their favour with a 53% dominance. We can’t say that we peppered their goal… because again, we didn’t. 8 shots on goal, 4 on target… Fulham had more chances than us!

I hope people don’t complain about Fulham parking the bus… if you were in a fight with a man twice the size of you, you wouldn’t try and out punch him, would you (Maybe Geoff would)? Teams know not to play football against us… if they get their tactics right, a point is highly likely.

I really don’t know what to think of the whole situation. Going into the summer knowing we’re ‘Europa cupped’ is a horrible thought.  Knowing if that happens, we wont have any money to spend is even worse, knowing players will want to leave because we didn’t bolster the squad when we should of makes me want to weep…I don’t think I can handle another summer of Vela, Rambo and Wilshere potential stories. They are a long way off turning in world class performances every week.

We’re being told this team will dominate in 3 years time… I’m sure I heard that 3 years ago… hands up who is prepared to suffer another 3 years of this? My hand is firmly down…

The chorus of boo’s at the end of each game is getting louder and louder… which is amazing, because if the plastics are the ones that leave early (Loads leaving with 11 minutes to go)… that means a lot of real fans are very angry about what is going on at the club.

The whole set up needs freshening up… because the stench of stagnation at The Grove couldn’t be stronger.


Almunia: Had one shot on target all afternoon to deal with. He saved it and gained another clean sheet. 7

Sagna: Oh Sags… what has happened to your game this year? The longer the season goes on… the more your confidence looks shot to pieces. He couldn’t cross the road at the moment, could he? He was pretty strong defensively, but further up the pitch he looks as though he is suffering. 6

Gallas: I’m impressed by him all the time. He quietly gets on with his job without making too much noise… His defending has been outstanding, but his input vocally is noticeably less than what it was… Did anyone see him hobbling around? 8

Kolo: If Kolo and Gallas were a couple, Kolo would be the crazy one who Gallas had to keep in check. Thankfully the only partnership those two have is on the pitch… and it is proving to be a successful one. Another clean sheet, but a few mistakes by the crazy one… I don’t know how comfortable I’d feel with Kolo and JD… 6.5

Clichy: Suffering the same problems as Sagna. Going forward less because he has been instructed to, or his confidence is low? Sound at the back, crap in attack. 6.5

Vela: Another one of those, ‘Wenger needs to start playing X, that will solve our problems’. Sadly it didn’t. Carling Cup Vela didn’t turn up today… but I still thought he played well. He creates openings, he runs at players and he is prepared to play that killer pass. He is shot shy at the moment… but give him as many games as Eboue has had and we might have a player. 7

Diaby: Conflicting view’s were exchanged during half time drinks. I thought he was poor in the first half. He links up the play better than Song and Denilson do, he runs with the ball well… but sometimes he holds onto it too long… and his decision making can be woeful. He also left us exposed at the back on a number of occasions. I thought he was poor today… and he looked really tired by the end… but Bud and his brothers thought otherwise. 5

Denilson: If you watch him play with the same mindset you would watching Gilberto play, he is actually a very hand player. He doesn’t waste many balls, he covers a lot of ground and he is a hard worker. His standards dropped a little late on, but I thought he was adequate today. 7

Nasri: Our rotund wide man took up a new role today… sitting just deep of RvP in the Bergkamp role. I thought he played very well. He was busy as ever, looking for gaps and shooting opportunities, but like the rest of the team… no end product. He was our best player today… and I am pleased he is showing it consistently now. 8.5

Arshavin: Can’t you tell when you see an experienced player of quality? Arshavin knows exactly what he is going to do about 5 seconds before anyone else does… he sees runs and space… has the vision to exploit them and he isn’t afraid to have a pop at goal. His fitness levels are pretty low at the moment, he looked very tired at the end of the game. That is why he can’t be played centrally yet… although I am sure that will come soon. 8

RvP: Guilty of more misses today. I wonder how long it is before Arshavin takes the freekicks off him… because his are beyond a joke. Robin has to start taking more of his chances, because he is missing more than Nik B and he is being forgiven because we all love him. Must do better in my opinion. 6


Eboue: Came on at right back and looked better than Sagna going forward. 6.5

Nik B: Created a few chances, fluffed a few passes… but ok. 6

I’ll leave you with this quote to cheer you up… remember Hleb saying he wanted to leave London for the quiet life?

‘In London he was a hero. If I went went to a restaurant with him, there in a matter of seconds about 20 people would surround him asking for an autograph.’

‘Now he is at a mega-club. They have 25 world-class players. Only 11 of them can go on to the pitch. Seven sit on the bench and seven more watch games from the stands.’

Looks like all his dreams have come true! Happy Sunday Grovers!

648 Responses to “This plane is crashing, and no one can stop it… Ratings and match report”

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  1. kirby

    but A we were a better team 3 years ago so what is he building hes been at arsenal for 12 years! and done brilliant things for the club took us the next level agreed but he started building this team since we moved to the emirates but it has got worse wtf! what if we lose players cos of finishing 5th how will he inprove us that year???

  2. patthegooner

    I am not asking him to Appease the Fans A. not at all.

    I just dont think a comment like It is not my concern if the fans are losing faith in me, is a little out of touch, and if the press jump on it, will only add to the ill-feeling.

    Keyser, I was happy at kick off with the formation, and with on-form strikers, I would like to see more of it. Football-wise it was ok and an improvement on some of the dross they have delievered this year, but in the final 3rd, it was like watching 11 Hlebs. I do think we should have gone 4-4-2 when it was not working though. I think Wenger just expected that if we were patient then we would score eventually like we used to do.

  3. Stu

    In fairness to Morgan he later took back what he said…if we are thinking of the same thing that is. Also i dont think FMs comments should be downplayer just because he wasnt a top manager. He is a legend for the cluba and probably just wants s to be successful. He is probably just as unhappy as the rest of us.

  4. David


    5 Minutes into the match and Villereal score…this is real football entertainment….the goals come quick, often and early, middle and even dying seconds of the match….

    I dont doubt that not all games are perfect but there is bound to be a game that just leaves you giving your TV a standing ovation! Its juss fantastic! Like Arsenal used to be! 🙁

  5. A

    he wouldn’t change his ways stu, it’s seeing whether his way will work. Whether a squad with rosicky, cesc, arshavin, eduardo, theo in it playing together for a whole season, and whether a more developed and settled nasri, vela, bendtner can make a big difference.

    yeah kirby the fans are unhappy because the team isn’t winning, wenger should be doing everything to rectify that

  6. Keyser

    Stu – I watched most of it, Stoke just sat back for most of it and let Villa on to them, Villa looked comfortable and up until the last 10 minutes you couldn’t see Stoke getting anywhere.

    Weirdly as soon as the second goal went in, it seemed like they thought ‘fuck it, can’t get any worse, lets just go for it’ and it worked out for them.

    It’s amazing how all these supposed great teams fall aprt if you just bother to attack them.

  7. Stu

    Keyser, ok so he didnt technically sell Flamini and Hleb wanted to leave but they still gt to go and werent replaced. You know what i meant.

  8. patthegooner

    A, at the end of the day I think 12 wins, 10 draws and 5 defeats pretty much sums up the reality of what the fans are feeling and why they quite righty are losing faith in him, and why he should be concerned about it.

    Shall we leave it buddy, I guess this could go on all night.

  9. A

    hleb was replaced by nasri, flamini was nothingy anyways

    hleb leaving killed this team, the only thing that could have saved it was rosicky being fit, otherwise it was always going to be very troublesome

    Mclintock wasn’t not a top manager, he was ridiculed as a manager for his complete lack of footballing knowledge. It’s like listening to ian wright’s footballing analysis. He was an inferior manager to barry fry.

    Also – regarding fairness to piers morgan – there isn’t someone who deserves fairness less, why on earth does he have a right to write about football in the first place, he’s just an idiotic smug git, complete and utter idiot who’s completely clueless in general, even more so football!

  10. A

    yeah i think agree to disagree is the best way to finish the debate pat!

    noone is trying to say this season hasn’t been a disaster, wenger took risks and they didn’t pay off. Have to reassess things at the end of the season, making decisions now is silly

  11. David


    Ure right…We werent patient…we kept trying to force things and thats why we kept giving the ball away!

  12. Keyser

    pattheGooner – Come on Pat, so is that all he said ? Where did you get the comment from ?!

    Loads of people wanted that formation and I hope they don’t suddenly think it’s failed, we’ve started creating the sorts of chances we’ve been wanting all season, the only difference now is we’re not taking them, but we should because we’ve got the people to do it.

    I think we were going to go 4-4-2, but pretty early on Fulham were just working around us, so Vela moved out wide, there’s loads more to come from this team, I just wish we get to see it soon.

  13. A

    By the end of the season I really hope we see arshavin, rosicky, cesc, theo, nasri, vp, bendtner, vela all firing, we’re blowing away teams, and everyone’s saying “what if we’d not had the injuries” etc etc

  14. A

    i agree keyser, i think the current set of players has an amazing amount of potential, and could dominate for years to come, but that doesn’t help us now!

  15. David


    When did you steal my thoughts???

    Naturally i was watching the Villa game….after the 1st goal i switched it to the spurs game…i couldnt watch it again..because i swear i could never see stoke city score the way they were playing….they couldnt be bothered to attack at all…and it just shows you that Villa are a one way team….

    Theyre either All out attacking….or All out defending for a counter-attack…they got no balance.

  16. A

    villa all out attack david?? i must have missed that one! I’ve never seen them play anything other than incredibly defensively counter attack. It’s only when they come up against someone else very defensive that they have to come forward.

    Zico got them spot on calling them one dimensional.

    Their game consists of sitting incredibly defensively, fouling anyone who gets into their half, then counter attack and have agbonlahor and young diving anytime they get near the area so they can have set pieces. Along with the occasional goal from a long ball

  17. leon

    the squad we had when we won the prem i dought manu could match that butthats the past its very possible we will never get back to that the fact is there are not alot players of the ability of viera in prime,we were blessed to have ush a gifted quad and the expectation of the new squad we have is through the roof.i not defending wenger at all but the fact is finding players like berdkamp are not easy to fing but they are out there wenger must pay that bit extra to our define right to finish top 4 the fact we dont deserve it,for the key to any team is midfield and i dont remember 1 player have an outstanding seasom mush less the whole team

  18. Keyser

    David – Heh, it’s odd last season, I think there was some stat where La Liga had the most 0-0 draws out of all the top leagues, I’m sure it’s been vastly different this season.

    Villa have played most of the season 4-5-1 and it worked for them, because Petrov and Barry have another person helping them out in midfield and they can squeeze games and break quickly on the counter attack.

    They still play well when it’s 4-4-2 but having just Barry and Petrov together leaves them vulnerable and if teams stopped sitting backagainst them i’m sure they’d concede a whole lot more.

    Stoke were shocking in the first 70 odd minutes, they seemed scared to cross the half way line, went a couple of goals down and were a changed team.

    Reminds me of us back in the day, we’d be dull up until half time or until we’d go 1-0 down and then sort of wake up once we knew we were up against it.

  19. dennisdamenace

    Let’s get this straight the club has a responsibility to it’s paying public – The Fans. Otherwise maybe we should all sit there, hand over our money, and be thankful for whatever happens or doesn’t happen at the club, after all long after AW, the current Board, and the players have all moved on the fans will still be there, they are the ONLY constant in all this fucking nonsense.

  20. patthegooner

    See Keyser we agree there, I want to see more of that formation, apart from the final 3rd bit, it was not too bad. I would rather watch that formation than the same one of a few weeks ago. At least we are creating chances witht this one.

    As for his words, that was the opening gambit and as I pointed out, it was always the line that the Media would pick out as the headline statement. This is the rest

    “I don’t know [whether the fans are losing faith]. That is not my worry,” said Wenger.

    “What is important is that I do what I believe is right and we keep going, that we show great attitude and do our job as well as we can, then let everybody judge and have an opinion.

    “I believe it’s not the biggest problem, not the biggest worry. The biggest worry is that we don’t win games that we should win.

    “We have been through difficult times, but it’s an opportunity to show that you are strong enough to come through it.”

    Wenger is determined not to make a big issue of his team’s goal drought, and believes the character of his squad is strong.

    “I feel the players are showing enough desire, but when you don’t get the results the first thing people always doubt is the desire,” he said.

    “I want to win the games and when we don’t win the games, it’s disappointing.

    “Every defeat or every time we don’t have a victory is tough.

    “At the moment it’s not satisfying, but we will see how strong we are until the end of the season.”

    “You know how much I want to get into the Champions League. For me, it is not important – it is vital. But you can only play your games and try to win them.

    “I want to be in the Champions League because it’s the best I can be. If I’m not, then I’m not happy. It’s as simple as that.

    “You don’t play football to be average. I don’t manage in the game to be average, and the players want to play at the top.”

    “We don’t have many opportunities to change things round at the moment,” he said. “So we will keep the positives from what we do well and go into the next game to win it.

    “What is good in football is that in three days the story can be completely different.”

  21. Paulinho

    I think Denilson is so poor it’s almost weird why Wenger persists with him, however I can’t blame it all on him.

    Although Nasri has scored a few goals, I think the drop off in quality between him and Hleb is just as big as the difference between Denilson and Flamini.

    We lack the technical cohesion and ability to pressurise teams constantly and make them buckle.

    Yesterday was embarassing the way Fulham played out that final ten minutes. We couldn’t even play the game in their half.

  22. David


    Villa played all out attack with Stoke City…especially till the end of the 1st half…i saw Zack Knight in there like he was a centre forward.

    We are essentially saying the same thing “one way team” ‘One dimentional team’

    So no arguments there.


    I was completely gutted after petrov scored that goal…it was a simple goal that the keeper shouldve punched out imo….and i felt sick thinking for sure there is no end to Villa’s luck this season….

    When the Likes of Stoke City (who beat Arsenal btw) have more spine than Arsenal…the writing is very Bold on the wall.

  23. patthegooner

    A, Keyser I do agree with you on the talent thing, there is a lot there to get excited about, but we are still 2-3 players short and in my mind it was within our resources to buy those players in the Summer.

    I really think he gambled on Song and Denilson doing a Flamini and it just didnt work for him. But I was surprised he did not fix it in Jan. My only thought is that he knows who will fill that gap and that they are not available until the summer.

  24. A

    the thing is pat, it’s only speculation as to whether it was within our resources, it’s impossible for any of us fans to know for certain one way or the other.

    Imo song and denilson were stitched up somewhat because of the midfield they had to play in. I don’t think either of them offers less to the team than flamini did. If either of them had played in an incredibly strong midfield flying with cesc, hleb, rosicky then they would have been absolutely fine, but likewise if any of the three had to play in the midfield this season, very weak and lacking confidence, injuries etc, all three of them would have been found wanting.

    None of them are top quality centre mids, and none of them are shit. I actually think of the three denilson has the most potential to get the furthest, but none of them were/are ready yet to make a difference consistently in a midfield at the moment.

    i agree about 2/3 players, I actually think we’re 2 players short, and we’ll get them in the summer, a centre back to replace the departing gallas, and a defensive mid

  25. David


    So why did Wenger not try to replace Flamini??? That is odd??? I think he mustve felt Injury prone Diaby would be able to play again….or he doesnt really rate the DM position at all.

    Btw…I think Toure should go as our CB his defending against a very average if not poor A. Johnson was just shocking.

    And Roma have scored again….3-1.

  26. Keyser

    David – I was watching it on a stream so not sure, I though Petrov had a deflection, because the keeper dived one way and the ball went in behind him ?!

    I don’t think it’s spine, Stoke have one objective and thats to survive, all these teams come to us thinking a point is a bonus, so if they defend or don’t bother to play it’s nothing to worry about.

    We just haven’t been ab;e to break them down, there’s slight differences now though, we aren’t conceding and we’re also creating chances we should score from, not much but there’s improvements.

  27. leon


    he stick with delinson who else has got,delinson is fearly good player but not top class player,which means he will tend be abit inconsistant and top class players can play at high level for 25 games playut disagree that hleb is better play than nasri not all hleb was very skillful player but there different type players hleb is mush similar to diaby and likes to go inthe middle but could not hadle the phsycal side and for a winger had little assists but mush better in central role nasri and hleb different type of players some players are just suited to prem

  28. A

    wenger did try and replace flamini – tried for xabi alonso and inler that we know of, but obviously failed to get anyone he thought could do the job.

    I thought toure had improved massively again recently david, especially against sunderland and roma, and looked like he was getting back to his old form. I didn’t see the fulham game though as i was playing footy so can’t comment about that, was he really bad then?

  29. David


    I agree with you that we have improved somewhat….but Van Persie has been overused imo….I would much rather see him rested for the “lesser” teams…and watch Bendtner and Vela do their magic as they did with Wigan

    Inter have a penalty.

  30. Keyser

    pattheGooner – I wouldn’thave minded Bendtner either and doing what we did to Roma, we looked tired towards the end and it worked against us, but there’s been improvements since earler in the season, from the start I haven’t thought we’d suddenly click, it took Hleb and Flamini 4 years to show much of worth, but I think some of the players we have now are improving a lot quicker.

    About the Wenger comment, I’m not really bothered what the media do, more worried about what the fans think, at least you can see that it’s nowhere near as bad as just taking the singular sentance out of context.

    Redknapp must really have a lot of friends in the media because they seem to aSs lick him no matter what.

    I think Wenger wanted certain players, it didn’t work out, I didn’t really want any of the players we were linked with, except maybe Inler or Matuidi.

  31. A

    3-2! come on inter

    I agree about vp david, and i think it would have happened if we’d been winning games, but because we weren’t and playing without confidence etc we couldn’t afford to rest vp

  32. David

    I dont understand why everyone is complaining about Arsenal fans though…

    Arsnel fans are the greatest in the world….come on…we cheered our team to go on especially during injury time to go on and try to win it but they appeared disinterested…so why wont we booo????

    We have also gone 5 straight league matches draws…which is a month and a half of uselessness.

    If we cant win against West Brom….well lets not think it.

  33. leon


    he tried to get clement,annon,xabi,inter,nombia i think he went for around 5 players all snubed him to stay there clubs,but i think he should get a player on loan

  34. A

    david im an arsenal fan, and we certainly aren’t the best in the world. The best fans in the world are the ones who are cheering and supporting the team through thick and thin, and that certainly isn’t us!

    well things are done behind closed doors leon, we could have gone for 40 players for all we know!!

    i don’t see who we could have gotten on loan – we didn’t need to get someone for the sake of getting someone, we needed someone who would actually be good enough to make a difference, not just be adequate which is what song and denilson are

  35. David


    I understand but it hasnt worked….I do not agree with Wenger’s “Encouragement” methods when your striker has a poor game…that is absolute complete bollocks imo….Look a Pep….If Henry or Eto’o fack up in anyway their gettin benched and shouted at…thats what a coach should do….if anything Bendtner and Van P finishing is getting worse…and I want them to succeed badly even Bendtner but its all down to the Manager!

  36. Pedro

    A… it’s not the Arsenal fans fault we’ve had our expectations raised.

    The whole point of moving to the emirates was so we could compete… we’ve stomached the high prices and the couple of years skint… now we’re facing a year in the Europa cup.

    I’m not surprised people are miffed.

    Word on the street is Inler failed a medical… why else would he stay at Udinese a year longer than he needed to?

  37. David

    The best fans cheer through thick and thin????

    Dear oh dear….then you and I have a fundamental disagreement on what “best” is.

    You do not condone mediocrity…especially when its lasted for 4 going on 5 years.

  38. Pedro

    Sorry… what I am saying is that support is one thing… but when does the tipping point come? Or do you just blindly support until your club is run into the ground?

    Fans have to have their say at some point… there has to be a way of voicing dissatisfaction doesn’t there?

    What would you suggest?

  39. A

    the best fans are going to be the ones that help the team the most, that support the team the most, if that’s not what you think best is david then yeah we do have a fundamental disagreement there!!

    we’ve not been mediocre for 4 years though david, we’ve been very good for 4 years, just not exceptional. Mediocre would be not getting in the champions league for 4 years.

    i agree that fans expectations have been raised pedro, but our fans are especially quick to jump on players backs. As a result of expectations being raised, we’ve become much worse supporters. Even if it isn’t our fault, or it can be explained and justified, it’s still the case that we aren’t as good fans as those at other clubs

  40. patthegooner

    I would go with that Pedro

    I think we were given false expectations. I think the Club were too quick to come out with comments like the Stadium will attract the best players and pay the best wages,

    And I think Wenger is now in a bit of a Cry Wolf Situation. Ever summer for the last four he has said the same thing and every year it has been a similar result and maybe just maybe those kind of words just bounce off the fans now. Ok we came closer last year, but although it was only 4 at the end, the Title was out of our hands well before May.

  41. A

    you don’t blindly support as the club is being run into the ground, but you should blindly support everything that happens on the pitch, even if decisions, players, tactics etc. I completely support sit-ins, protests outside the ground etc, or more drastic actions if the club is actually being run into the ground, (which our situation isn’t 1/100 of what would constitute that) but as a supporter when it gets to the point the team would benefit from you not being there you’re a long way away from being good fans

  42. Pedro

    A, fans are quick to jump on poor players backs… because we’ve been watching poor players for a while now.

    Eboue has been given many seasons to prove himself, Song hasn’t really… but he is in the same category for ability… then when the players do eventually come good, they fuck off!

    It doesn’t happen to ManU, Liverpool or ManU… they always invest… they are sports clubs first, businesses second… we’re the other way round.

    That gets to people…

  43. patthegooner

    A, Again I cant go with you there.

    There is no way I could Blindly support everything that happens on a pitch. Sorry but there are too many emotions good and bad for that.

    I can’t even think of a Club that never gets booed off.

  44. Pedro

    I think the same would be happening at Liverpool, Chavski and ManU if they were sitting 5th.

    It’s not an Arsenal specific problem… and I don’t think fans should have to suffer poor performances from players who earn huge sums of money.

    I think the current economic climate is adding fuel to the fire…

  45. David

    Yes A,

    When havent we helped the team???

    As i said that last match we cheered the team on….we were pushing…shouting…kicking…screaming for them to push forward to go and get a result…but they didnt look interested….slow….slow…….oh so slow in intelligence….our chemistry in the final third is non-existent and we the fans can see it….

    Arshavin is top top top quality….but nobody passed him the ball…

    And I disagree. We have been mediocre ever since we sold a certain Patrick Vierra.

  46. patthegooner

    I dont think they are getting on the Players back Pedro.

    I think it is frustration aimed at Wenger, but the Players get the brunt of it.

    I guess it is not Songs fault he is being picked to play all the time. He maybe even knows he is out of his depth, but like him, if I suddenly got picked to play against WBA, I would not say no, despite my shitness.

  47. patthegooner

    I think that was the start of the rot David.

    The Summer that Vieira and Edu were both allowed to leave.

  48. Pedro

    Pat, the groans are quite bad at the minute… the constant shouting of ‘shoot’ from the guy behind me was irritating the other day… but at the end of the day, they are paid vast sums of money for a reason… and they’re not delivering.

    What other industry can you work in and not get bollocked by your customer when you’re doing a poor job (Public sector workers are excluded from my comment).

  49. A

    undoubtedly pat, but all their fans are also crap! Of the top 4 it pains me to say but i think liverpool are the best.

    when havn’t we helped them david?! how about the booing of eboue and bendtner?!

    we’ve not been mediocre, we’ve just been worse than when we were absolutely amazing. We’ve still been in the top 4 clubs in the whole of england, and amongst the best in europe!

  50. Pedro

    A… my boss is season ticket holder at Liverpool and he says they boo and the atmosphere is deathly quiet for games of little importance.

    Pompey fans booed Adams… aren’t they supposed to be the best?

  51. David


    If you havent noticed…since we Boood Eboue…his game has gotten dramatically better.

    When i say dramatically…i mean a lil less drama and more footballing….with the exception of the spuds game ofcaorse.

  52. patthegooner

    I agree with you Pedro,

    End of the day, it is an entertainment business with the added loyalty noose around your neck. If it was Theatre, you just would not go again. The People in Football have a captive audience, but because of the loyalty, emotions come with it.

    Like you said, this is not an Arsenal problem, I can’t think of a Club that has not gone through some period of being Booed off the park.

    I know what you mean about shouts of SHOOT, and sometimes a shot just is not on, but the insistence to score a perfect goal does piss me off.

  53. A

    yeah the liverpool fans do get negative pedro, but i just think they’re the best of the top 4 because whilst they’re the same when they’re being negative when they’re really signing the atmosphere they’re louder and the atmosphere they create is far superior.

  54. ron india

    look at inter -Roma game… is not going your way…then change it…..mourinho is a cunt …..but he is brave to make changes not afraid of big egos….but wenger does not change it ……when needed everybody can see it that denilson,song,eboue are not good enough to play for arsenal except for wenger …..stoke have provided us a chance can we take it…..if we keep playing denilson,song then we are finished.

  55. Pedro

    A… I also think the fact that Liverpool is a shit hole helps with the atmosphere… when you work in a factory and all you’ve got in your area is a good football club, it boosts the area.

    Whilst i’m not suggesting all Liverpool fans are factory workers… judging by the area, there are a lot.

    Pat, spot on.

    It reminds me of when Governments say people who don’t support their wars are unpatriotic…

  56. kirby

    A- we may have been in the top 4 and amongst the best in europe but look where we are now we are struggling to keep up and thats why we are mediocre and somewhere down this road we have picked up mediocre players who have potential but times running out

  57. patthegooner

    A, if this was Wenger at Anfield in the last four years, he would have been sacked long ago, and the Fans would probably have been a lot more vocal about it than Arsenal fans have been.

    Jesus they are very quick to jump on players and managers up there if they are not up to scratch, and from talking to my buddies that go, Lucas is their Song equivalent.

    I think we just need to sort out the stadium a bit. There is a lot more that could be done to get the atmosphere up. You could start by formalising a Home End, get the vocal fans in there, give it a historical name instead of a colour and change that fucking Elvis Song. How the fuck is that supposed to motivate anyone.

  58. David


    You have a great gift for analogies. That Government and people analogy….i dont think there anyone that couldve say it better.

  59. Pedro

    Cheers David!

    Pat… Geoff’s idea of standing sections next to the away fans was a good one.

    You could charge £400 for the year and cram double the fans in…

    There would be no better time to do it with people not renewing and other fans looking for ways to fund their weekly visits to the home of football!

  60. A

    pedro i don’t agree with that analogy at all. It’s like not agreeing with your government’s decision to go to war, and choosing to fly to afghanistan or iraq to shout abuse at and boo our troops whilst they’re fighting.

    I hate the idiotic claim that arguing or protesting against a war thing being patriotic. It’s very different to supporting a football club.

  61. patthegooner

    Great Analogy

    That is why you write Blogs and I dont….

    I saw a perfect example of it earlier, whilst cruising around the other blogs, and again I saw the classic

    “Well if you dont like it go and support Chelsea, Arsenal dont need the likes of you”

    Makes my blood boil that statement.

  62. kirby

    good old arsenal or remember at highbury they played that loud music and went round the stadium and the atmosphere just felt better and you was always confident. what the fuck has the wonder of you got to do with arsenal!

    wengers favourite proberly!!

    and when we shout the second name of our players when annoucing our team its fuckin embarrasing has anyone heard the german fans do that its amazing

  63. leon


    i dont believe there wont any top class players availeble,the fact since 2004 the expectations of what ever team comes out is through roof in truth the team has been ok but not exeptional and anything less than that is conciderd crap,if we are going get back greatness wenger will have to pay abit extra not 30 mill but he have start forking 20 mill for top player

  64. patthegooner

    I like that Pedro, and you would not even have to make a standing area,

    I remember reading a report soon after it was opened, and someone said that if you ripped out the wide leather seats, and put some plastic ones in with less leg room, then you could add 10k to the capacity. They should do it at both ends and recreate the North Bank and Clock End atmosphere and charge less.

  65. A

    I dunno pat, i actually really like the elvis song!

    i think having bowl like designs has a negative effect on atmospheres, it makes it more open, much less intense.

    i dunno about that pat, possibly, but then liverpool have a more consistent history than us. If we’d finished in the top 4 and won nothing for 4 years before wenger arrived, than it would have been considered a very successful four years!

  66. Pedro

    I don’t think so A.

    No one boo’s the players while they are playing… that has only happened once and that was Eboue… who did the equivalent of shooting at his own regiment during the Wigan game.

    Remember, Arsenal don’t have a democratically elected government. There is no way of really being heard other than where it hurts the hierarchy the most… full time on match day.

  67. patthegooner

    They do it at Palace as well Kirby, I cant stand it

    But the song, fuck me, how the fuck did they come up with that Shit, but they are probably just as stubborn with the Wonder of You as they are with Song. We just have to be patient with it, It will work in the end 🙂

  68. David


    Eboue’s game has improved since he got booed. And before his antics in the spuds game he was playing good football….when your kids act up you dont encourage them…you give em a good scolding so they dont repeat misbehaving….and if Wenger is supposedly eveerybodies “father” he should act like one.

  69. Pedro

    David, good point.

    Hearing that story about Senderos storming out of training when Keown bollocked him said a lot about the way Wenger manages.

    It’s ok to have a hand’s off approach with the world class players… but you can’t really do that with kids.

  70. A

    it happened a fair bit to bendtner too pedro, and that eboue thing was just an extreme, it’s happened on a reduced level in other games with bendtner and eboue.

    People boo and groan a great deal, whether it’s because of complacency or not it still doesn’t help the team.

    The war analogy doesn’t work because fans at match day choose to attend the match, people don’t choose the country they were born into.

    Fans who are pissed off have every right to stay away, but to choose to go to games to shout abuse and boo our own team even though it damages the team are really bad fans imo

  71. David


    OMG! I was in Germany watching a Bayern M. Game…and the fans were so loud when they shouted the last name of the players it sounded real, it sounded very loud, and it sounded intimidating…..but then Bayern has had more recent success than Arsenal

  72. ron india

    A…….nobody likes to boo our own players…..but we are forced to do it because everybody knows the team is not good enough except for wenger …..we have gone from invincibles to struggling to hold on to 5th spot …..who should we blame for letting viera,flamini,gilberto,pires,edu go …..and replacing them with denilson,song,eboue….these three would not even get in the worst team of the yr

  73. David

    COme to think of it….Both Bendtner and Eboue game have improved….Bendtner was a lazy shite that never chased anything wearing pink boots and trotting like a duck….

    Now he’s almost scoring in every game…as if he isnt the same player….

    We should Booo are players more often!

  74. A

    david different players react differently, eboue would not react to a bollocking imo. After the eboue booing eboue has been cheered more by other fans wanting to make up for it, which would be why he’s played better. When he was being booed his game went completely to shit, even worse than it was before.

    Some players go into their shell when shouted at and it destroys their confidence – those players need encouragement rather than a telling off, other players need to be bollocked to get the best out of them.

  75. leon


    the bar has been set now and anything less than winning something every sesson is a failier now every team that wenger brings in is going to compard to 2004 team and my expecations for this club extrely high and we are faerly good players but not enough top class players

  76. patthegooner

    I think they should do it Pedro,

    I dont think most people are that bothered by the leather wide seats, sure it is a nice to have, but I dont go to Football to be comfortable, I want to be up and down singing. Maybe the Seats have not helped either. Most clubs dont get Corporate Hospitality in seats as good as ours.

  77. David

    I dont know A,

    Eboue said some of the fans emailed him to apologize…i dont know how accurately that has been…but the fact is..that if we hadnt booed in the first place and kept cheering he wouldnt have had to self examine…

    As you have correctly put…as a result of the booing…both Eboue and the Arsenal Fans cheering have improved.

  78. kirby

    i know david they do it properly dont they lol but i think we shouldnt do it and change the song it is bollocks!!!

    yeah i suppose they aint gonna change it pat!!

  79. Pedro

    A… for me supporting a club is the same as supporting your country.

    Most fans don’t choose who they support… they are told. If I’d have supported anyone else, my dad would have had me up the adoption agency in about 10 minutes.

    I support my club, love my club and my club only. No one is bigger than it… so when I see my club being run poorly… it makes me want to boo.

    I don’t though… but with every passing week… it becomes more tempting.

    Maybe the fact that I write for a blog stops me… at least I have a voice… most others don’t… that is their only chance to voice dissatisfaction.

    Protests… sit ins… they all require too much effort and probably have less effect than 5 second booing at the end of a game.

  80. patthegooner

    Afraid so Keyser

    We haven’t flogged it to death quite yet.

    I think this subject will always divide fans. It is all about how you think players should be motivated. Personally I can accept booing at the end of a half or game, not whilst the ball is in play.

    I do think there is a place for it though as it is a fans only opportunity to let players know if they are pulling their weight. They seem perfectly happy to to accept standing ovations at the end of games, so they should accept critique as well. When was the last time that players have put in a performance to warrant a ovation and they have hung around at the end of a game to milk it

  81. Pedro

    I must admit, I never witnessed the booing of Bendtner…

    If anyone moans about him near me… they get the full break down of why they should shut up.

  82. Stu

    I didnt hear anyting about Fans emailing EBoue but all i heard was him saying that the ter africans in the team called ot his house when he put himself into exile and helped him feel part of the team again. Before that he said he felt like his arsenal career was over and wanted to leave. Feck sake Ade, Toure and SOng. Just leave him be!

    Many pundits said Eboues age was part of the reason he couldnt handle the booing but i dont buy that. He is 25 and was distraught(sp) after it. Bendtner was apparently booed even before a game stared and he was on the bench and just laughed it off. It nothing to do with age but mental strenght. Bendtner has it and EE just doesnt.

  83. Pedro

    Stu, if I was Arsene, I’d ask some of the back room staff to write a hand written letter to Eboue.

    He’s not very bright is he?

  84. Pedro

    Dear Eboue,

    I booed you at the end of the game because the bigger boys told me to… errr… sorry.


    Vik Akers… I mean Benny McGee!

  85. David

    Yes I agree with that Stu

    But this isnt a case of who has more mental strength or not…

    Its the fact that because of the Booing. Eboue and Bendtner are now better players for it.

    This is a fact. Not an Opinion.

  86. Stu

    I remember when we lost in the CL away to Bayern. After every goal they scored the stadium announcer came on celebrating with the fans. He did a big long drawn out thing where he said the players name with the fans. Like the goooooooooooolllllll thing. It pissed me off so much but it also made me realise that we have fuck all like that.

    I know the club is set up to accomodate families and kids and all that stuff but imo the club as a whole is far too nice. The players dont give out to each other on the pitch, when a player openly criticises the others he is a cunt. I dont agree with Gallas coming out but what he said was right unfortunately.

  87. Pedro

    Who was that team ManU played where the stadium announcer was reprimanded for being abusive or over the top on the sound system (Tannoy?)?

  88. Pedro

    David, I can’t think of many players who’ve been destroyed by booing?

    I can’t think of one actually?

  89. Pedro

    ‘The booing is just so bad I’m going to give up my £35k a week job.’

    Boo me all day for that wedge! haha!

  90. Keyser

    pattheGooner – ah well, we’ve done everything else, heh.

    It could work either way, they’re all people at the end of the day, they’re just fortunate in more ways than most, it’d affect them like any other person.

    Play Sunday league and you get managers that will tell you your shit and it’ll work for players and for others they’ll not want to play again, or go and play for another club.

    Boo at the end if you want, not too bothered about that, but we can all see the effect it has on them right now.

    I think both the fans and the players are low on confidence and nervous during the games, it’s just to be expected right now, it’s odd though that some of our best performances this season are in big games where the crowds got behidn the team, I still can’t believe the Liverpool game.

  91. A

    lol david it’s completely and utterly opinion. It’s just a valid to say because of the booing it delayed them showing they were better players. It’s not even necessarily the case that they’re playing better, but even if that was considered a fact, the reasons for it are certainly not factual, it’s ridiculous to claim that they are!!

  92. David

    Why is it ridiculous A,

    Bendtner and Eboue were shite all season till we started booing them.

    Im sorry mate…this is really clear cut to see just as night and day.

    Clearly booing made Eboue cross examine himself…and he’s a better player….and so is Bendtner!

  93. Stu

    There is no way of judging that. Whos to say that EE and Nik have played better in the last 3 months than they did on the previous 3?

  94. Keyser

    David – Come on, Bendtner was scoring goals like last season and Eboue’s put in better performances before, it is just opinion.

  95. Stu

    Bendtner has maybe put more of a running effort in in the last month or so but without that effort he got more goals.

    EE has still been pretty shite since the booing, aside from the odd 15-25yard run before losing possession.

  96. David



    for 5k a week they can boo me all they want…Please Arsene…I have always wanted to play for Arsenal…i know im not good enough..give me 5k a week and I’ll be happy! Lol…

    Thats because there isnt anyone thats been destroyed by Booing!

    Its simple really if you dont want to be booed do better!

    What does booing do??? O does it hurt your mount Everest ego???

    No its makes you a better player.

  97. kirby

    yeah i was out there stu the 3-1 it was well loud and fuckin freezing i went for a piss on the way to the ground behind some tree but had to walk in 2ft of snow i was pissed of and cold but toures goal made me feel a bit better

  98. A

    there are outfield players who are booed out of clubs and successful elsewhere where they get more support pedro, but it’s very rare that confidence in outfield positions doesn’t return at different clubs.

    For keepers it’s different, confidence is such a big thing young keepers can get destroyed and their careers go to shit, or at least are affected much more.

    The obvious ones in england are savo missalotovic at villa who went on to score shedloads in spain, and forlan who was booed at utd, and now amazing in spain. Also the likes of materazzi. Though that could also be attributed to their different playing styles and different leagues, as well as confidence and booing etc.

  99. TonyS

    Can I ask a question.

    Arshavin appeared for many years in a league that has games in anything up to -15 degrees.


  100. David

    Keyser Says:
    March 1, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    David – Come on, Bendtner was scoring goals like last season and Eboue’s put in better performances before, it is just opinion.


    Keyser, Im not saying they are shite they’re whole career….im saying they were shite this season.

    And it wasnt until we booed them that they got their act together.

    Bendtner responds very very well to booing! Everytime he’s booed he plays good football the next game…i think it helps him…and so does Eboue…at least for this season!

  101. A

    david imo bendtner was better before the crowd started getting on his back than he has been since he was booed.

    He was absolutely fantastic away at bolton, in the first league cup game, and a few other times, the crowd got on his back bigtime since the burnley game, and he got worse and worse, and is only just recovering, but is not at the level he played in games before.

    Both players are playing better than they did whilst they were being booed, and in the games that started them getting booed, but havn’t improved as players imo

  102. patthegooner


    They might actually appreciate playing away on Tuesday

    If they can get a win there, they can take back some confidence for the home crowd at Burnley and then Blackburn.

    I might go up on Tuesday, it is only an hour and a half from where I work.

  103. Stu

    Tony, just because it is a less cold in London that St.Petersberg doesnt make it warm to him. Cold is still cold.

    David, there is no proof to back that up tho.
    It could be a coincidence. Maybe the booing at the start of the season affected Bendtner in particular and when the booing fell a little his performances returned.

  104. Keyser

    Villa got booed off the field against Stoke, unless they have a Kanu type player.

    David – It’s just the point that it could be any number of reasons that could be affecting his game, it’s hard to say whether it’s one or another. It’s just your opinion it’s the booing.

  105. TonyS

    Jonathan Pierce screaming on MOTD when Villa went 2-0 up:

    “And Villa are in the Champions league!!!!”

  106. kirby

    i dont think think bendtners been better david i think hes tried harder but is still someone who should not be used as often as he is!

    he looks half decent against championship sides accept for a couple of premier league games not very good at all!

  107. A

    exactly keyser, that’s what i said was ridiculous, claiming it to be fact as if a player’s personality and confidence could be that simplistic

  108. Keyser

    patthegooner – I dunno, the confidence might improve, but I thought they looked knackered towards the end against Fulham, Arshavin I don’t think will play, didn’t he stay on for the whole game ?!

    It’s going to be tough every game for a couple of weeks now, they’re coming thick and fast, but if Eduardo comes back, and the Theo and so on it’ll help as they go on.

  109. A

    commentators were convinced twas a pen, as you’d expect, but looking at it again imo the contact was only because of his diving, he went down onto king’s foot, wanna see what others think

  110. leon


    the whole team has played poorly can tell one player than shon this season,we have problems all over pitch at different types this season and yes nikky b has missed alot but at least he has put in the effort ade has been lazy ,eboue is right back cover no more than that

  111. A

    motd pundits really are stupid aren’t they. The whole point with bruce saying about the foul for the first goal was that if a foul had been given, then it would have given wigan possession and they then would have relieved the constant pressure. As it was the foul wasn’t given so the pressure continued, and in the end it resulted with a goal.

    He also had a point with the lampard push didn’t he?!

    i hate how stupid pundits are, and the fact they’re considered “experts” and allowed to control the interpretation of events, when they’re less intelligent and knowledgable than the average fan

  112. LuvDup Loner

    OK, so yet another 0-0 and we failed to make up ground, yet seeing Villa lose a 2-0 lead makes our draw feel better as I am sure Id be even more gutted if we had done that! I know it aint much, but that could be a real turining point and given my natural optimism, it dont take much for me to see a silver lining!

    I thought the starting line up was effin great tho and shouldve been more than enough and if RvP had of headed down, we might be looking at a win, but hey ho, dems da breaks.

    Now, for the negatives;

    The effin shite support. I was stood with my cuz sining and not one fucker around us bothered to, sat there in stoney effin silence… Fucks me off and if anyone thinks thats cool, then bollocks say I!

    No matter what gripes we have about certain players and the manager, the team should be getting the support of the team, now especially, but insytead they get a fucking morgue, apart from the boos at the end, and that was probably the only effin noise most of those twats made.

    Yep, I called other Gooners twats, coz thats what they are IMO.

    Evening all!

  113. Ja_Gunner

    Well my team for WBA

    Some of the players looked tired. So





    I know Song Den al over again..but Diaby looked dead tired after the last game, I would have him on the bench in case we need his drive later in the game.

    I rest Sagna…RVP must play..he can rest for the Burnley game. I have Vela coming on for RVP or Arsh depending on the situation. Gallas has had some knocks..he or Toure may need a rest.

  114. Ja_Gunner

    For the Burnley game I would honestly play a side like this.





    4-3-3 attacking….4-5-1 without the ball.

    I bring back Sagna for his defensive solidity. I bring Gibbs for some better crosses from the left.

    I instruct Diaby that his main role for this game is to break up plays and instrcut him to keep his attacking limited to counter attacks etc.

    Ramsey and Merida will back up Diaby if he makes aforward run.

    Arshavin is cutting in from the left or going to byline..he can do both..he is two footed. Vela cutting in to shoot from the right. Bendter up there as the big man.

    By this time other big guns should be back from injury to face Roma….however I hear that Ade has been penciled in for this game already.

  115. Ja_Gunner

    Nasri..Ade maybe Walcott on the bench for the Burnley game.

    Ade can replace Bendter in order to get some minutes in……Nasri if necessary etc.

    Denilson is rested because he seems to have the measure of Roma.

  116. Stu

    I’d go with :

    Eboue Toure Gallas Gibbs
    Arshavin Denilsong Nasri
    Bendtner Vela

    Either that or the same as Fulham with Nik instead od RvP and a 4-4-2.
    Or maybe have Eduardo is fit and Merida if possible.

  117. SFOGunner

    I think goeff hit the nail on the head. if bendtner had missed as many chances as rvp on saturday, this forum would have everybody screaming for his head ..

  118. ethangunner


    well ade has been doing it for 2 seasons and everyone still loves him ! RVP misses chances of the past 4 or 5 games and everyone is banging on about him !

    that doesn’t make sense to me either ..
    and ade misses chances that a 2 year old in a wheel chair should make .. yet RVP who is paid half of ade’s salary misses some in a short space of time and your all carrying on about him .

    if it continues for the rest of the season, yes then ark up about it .. but to isolate RVP when he is this seasons top goal scorer makes little sense to me ..