5 massive talking points about Arsenal now the window has closed

by & filed under News Review.

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I had to book a same day flight back to London last week, the only choice was business class. I flew out to New York’s this morning hoping to take advantage of the opulence. Books ready. Films ready. Drinking boots ON.

Then I fell asleep for the full duration. What a waste of time. I feel like I let myself down, and the guy next to me who took care of a bottle and a half of red on his own. He’s the true hero.

Anyway, let’s talk about football today, as the dust settles on a window as pleasantly memorable as a first time shart in public.

Firstly, let’s talk about the insantiy of Arsenal.com hosting the story where Wenger said ‘my phone is red hot’, for the fans to find out a few hours later he was commentating in Paris during the death of the window. Unreal banter from a manager who does not give a rats arse about fan perception.

Anyway, he has to address a few very difficult challenges he face, so I’m going to talk through a few of them.

Players don’t want to join Arsenal:

Arsene Wenger said the interest in M’Bappe was real, but the asking price was ‘too much.’ He also said the interest in Lemar was real, and we’ll be back in for him.

WAKE UP ARSENE. Thomas Lemar didn’t join us because he didn’t want to join a train wreck of a club. M’Bappe was NEVER going to come to us. Arsenal couldn’t secure Chamberlain to the project, even with £180k a week, yet Wenger is out there telling the fans two of the finest talents in the world wanted in? Please.

All about net spend:

Arsenal fans need to stop fixating on the net spend. The fact we landed with the second lowed next spend was a happy accident, not a financial strategy this summer. How do I know this? Firstly, we were trying to sign players wildly out of our league. Secondly, if there’s a directive from above to build cash piles, you DON’T let your two richest assets leave the club for free. You sell them to anyone who will take them.

The fans have got to stop trying to post rationalise bad summers. Wenger had no plan this summer. We didn’t really strengthen. We didn’t make that much of a dent in the deadwood. We didn’t sign our contract rebels to new deals.

There was no thinking behind how we ended up +£27m. It was a happy accident, which would have been far happier if that was the plan.

Alexis Sanchez:

The manager is notoriously weak when it comes to pretty much all his players. He’s the sugar daddy who can’t stop dishing out money, and can’t stop being so damn pleasant to his children. He doesn’t like confrontation and he’s not having a good time with Alexis. The skillful Chilean has taken to leaking stories about how upset he is about Arsenal botching his dream move to Manchester City, some reports saying, ‘he’ll never forget the role Arsenal played in this transfer.’

Arsene Wenger needs to take on some Napoleonic like thinking to deal with this insubordinate promptly. Jose Mourinho would have a plan, and it’d be aggressive and mean. He famously caught Didier Drogba in Milan talking summer moves when he was supposed to be at a dental appointment, he called him and said ‘did you mother raise you to be like this?’, the player was benched and punished. Came back and banged in all the goals and CFC won a load of medals.

Wenger needs understand what is precious to his star man, and squeeze really hard. Chile might not make the World Cup, but even if they don’t, the Chilean LOVES to play. Wenger hasn’t been able to say no to him his whole career at AFC. The manager should bench Alexis for a month. Take him to every game. Don’t give him any minutes. Make him feel the threat of zero game time. Convince him that maybe he won’t be on form for the World Cup. That’s how you get into his head.

Arsenal have to take back to power in a situation we have no power in. We cannot allow a selfish attitude to derail our season anymore than it already has. We need to protect the rest of the squad. Showing him who the leader is would be a good start.

Players squealing:

Mesut Ozil is certainly going to the World Cup, he’s also another love child of Wenger. Undroppable, even the players leaked curious question to the media to that effect. But he’s not playing well and he’s only putting in a shift when he fancies. He’s a quarterback. He’s an elite quarterback. However, Arsenal are not good enough to be a man down out of possession. Mesut either pulls his weight, or we put someone on the pitch who we know will.

Notable again to all the Oziltologists out there ejaculating the BIG numbers he drops… that no one bid for Mesut. Not one. No one chased down one of the most prolific creators of chances in Europe. All that money swilling around. All the stupidity. Yet no one dropped a cheeky £40m bid for a player entering the last year of his contract on pretty low wages. NO ONE.
What does that tell you? It tells you maybe the ‘if you don’t get him’ crowd spend too much time looking at spreadsheets.

As for Mesut’s PR penned FB post celebrating 4 pretty average years at Arsenal. It was all about this block of copy.

‘Personally I’ve had to accept a lot of criticism during my time in London. ‘Too expensive, too greedy, bad body language, and lacking fight’ – this is what people have said about me. Some of these comments are made by those who do not know me, some are made by former players – both successful and unsuccessful during their time here at the club. Although criticism is something that all football players have to deal with, I nevertheless expected legends to behave like legends – my advice to these former Gunners: stop talking and start supporting!’

Poor little Mesut. As for all the fans defending him, remember this line.

‘Even though I personally do not know how my career will continue after this year, I look forward to my fifth season with Arsenal.’

He’s quitting next year on a free. If you thought you’d seen 2nd gear Ozil last season, wait until you see how he’ll play past February this year.

But look, I spoke to occasional poster Alex yesterday about this. It’s very difficult to truly assess a player’s quality at Arsenal because at the core if it, they’re not coached. Ozil in a real system, where he has responsibility, accountability and he’s being properly motivated… well, he’s a World Cup winner, or the guy who sprinted 60 yards to make a tackle for Germany the other night. Under rudderless leadership, he’s shrinking violet.

Aaron Ramsey is clearly riled by the club, his social media rant was pretty out of step. As Matt pointed out on the podcast, the love in from the players spoke volumes about the disdain for the manager, and the selfishness of some of the players. It showed there is a mutiny. Aaron is the most straight-laced pro at the club, the most scandalous thing he’s done in the last ten years is hang out with a penguin. If he’s speaking out about the loss of Snapchat hero Chambo, you know others are also seething. He has two years on his deal, he’s unlikely to re-sign. So we basically have another uncommitted starter in our squad. Also worth noting he dropped a very good performance last night for Wales.

Talking of uncommitted starts of next year.

  • Giroud
  • Walcott
  • Rambo
  • Welbeck
  • Ospina
  • Cech
  • Monreal

Remember, Chelsea sold Matic to United to avoid him heading into the final year of his deal next summer. Utterly criminal how poor our renewals process is. How many more stars are we going to let run down their deals? What’s even more amazing is Wenger is trying to rejig the trend at Arsenal to be a world-wide warning, despite transfer fees hitting record levels this summer.

Finally, what are Arsenal going to do with their starting 11?

Here’s a few things we’ll have to consider.

Moving to a flat back 4. Three at the back doesn’t work for us, we don’t have enough talent or know how, so revert back to what kind of works. Bellerin and Kolasinac, with Mertesacker and Koscielny in the middle?

The midfield needs to protect the back 4, and needs to have legs to deal with Xhaka and his complete lack of physical capabilities. Are we in a dangerzone so red we need to flank him with Elneney and Coquelin?

How does the front three work? Lacazette being fed by Ozil on the right, and Alexis or Danny Welbz on the left? Could we play Giroud and Lacazette as two and have Aaron Ramsey as an industrious number ten? I mean, be real here, that’s where he ends up playing whether he’s ask too or not. Do we give Reiss Nelson the game time Sancho is likely to land at Dortmund this year?

Or, does Wenger just ignore the issues his unbalanced squad has and simply play the best names and hope it comes good?

What a complete mess.

Let me know your formation and selection ideas below.

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262 Responses to “5 massive talking points about Arsenal now the window has closed”

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  1. Marko

    Kroenke and Gazidis have to go too the malaise at the club is incredible but first and foremost the manager and his pathetic coaching staff and scouting personnel have to go. A purge is needed to fix the club. I’d honestly think about only keeping on a couple fitness coaches and the club doctor. Get rid of everyone else

  2. Rambo Ramsey

    Ishola,

    I choose to take a stand against halfwits such as yourself( take heart though, there are a couple more on here like you) who attempt to drown out any words of complaints against Kroenke.

    Ownership and management are different issues. Why do you get your panties in a bunch whenever someone points out issues in the ownership? Why are you programmed to counter it with ‘… Wenger, Wenger, don’t forget Wenger, what about Wenger?’

    Who is really the one doing all the deflecting, I wonder?

  3. Cesc Appeal

    Bamford

    The owner sets the tone though and direction of the club.

    Kroenke is basically affirming a lazy, cowardly, fourth is fine direction which has led us here.

    If the fans are going to push this year, push them all out. Kroenke might actually consider selling if Wenger is not there, look at how he said this might not even be Wenger’s last deal, I do not think he can handle Arsenal without Wenger because he placates the fans and allows them to carry on this shit show with far less resistance than if some other manager was there.

  4. Cesc Appeal

    Said it last week, an ‘atom bomb’ is what is required, a takeover at Arsenal which sweeps Wenger and Kroenke out the door, and with them Gazidis, the coaches the lot of them.

    The self-preservation structure is so strong at Arsenal that is what is required. Fan mutiny and then a takeover.

  5. Marko

    Change means accountability, it means revolution, it means goals and targets, it means standards, it means the gravy train is finished.The fans are the only people who want that, the players who want it will just leave, like Sanchez.

    Very true

  6. Leedsgunner

    In Kronke, Wenger and Gazidas we have a toxic symbiotic relationship which is poisoning the heart of the club. Wenger is just a light rod. If we want actual change — Kronke has to go.

  7. Carts

    Leeds

    By the sounds of things, Wenger is convinced he’ll continue to manage AFTER Arsenal. I don’t believe that for one second.

    It’ll transpire that Stan considered Wenger vital to Arsenal, and amidst a plethora of offers, Wenger decided to live the club some more and stay on.

  8. Kaymensah

    You are clearly an Aaron Ramsey fan. Remember, the team’s set-up does not place too much a duty on Ozil to track back than it does on Ramsey who is Xhaka’s partner in midfield. But he is always in Ozil’s space forcing him to do a job that he wasn’t bought to do. But you hardly criticise Ramsey. If and when Wenger sorts out the defensive midfielder position properly for me between Ramsey and Ozil, it is the latter who should play the No 10 role.

  9. Ishola70

    Rambo don’t turn it around.

    I have criticised Kroenke more on here than you have openly criticised Wenger in comparison. I fully remember you stating that you would never entertain holding up a Wenger out banner such is still intact respect for the man. In comparison I would gladly hold up both Wenger and Kroenke out banners at the same time. Therein lies the difference.

    What I don’t do like you though is try to negate just how much Wenger is failing at the real top end regardless of this poor owner. He has made poor transfer decisions and he is not tactically astute enough to be winning the major honours.

    Kroenke will never make the decision to oust Wenger unless it gets ridiculously bad because he walked into a football club called Arsene FC and is currently at Arsenal FC because of Arsene Wenger.

    Can you really see how massive a problem your hero/ex-hero is? Can you?

    Kick the dog nearest to you RR. It’s much simpler.

  10. Marko

    I can’t believe people think another contract is in him while I don’t see him seeing out the season. I honestly think that given everything that has happened last season and so far this season that leaving the defence and midfield unaddressed is season suicide and it’s gonna be the end of him. Cause you can just see it all season long Xhaka and Ramsey blunders coupled with LB’s playing CB’s and RB’s playing god knows where that results and performances like the Liverpool game will be frequent. And that’s not even taking into account the injuries that eventually occur. I mean an injury to Bellerin and Chambers and Debuchy are back in the mix and god knows how they feel. Koscielny gets an injury and we’re totally fucked. The midfield and defence is such a worry that I personally believe it’s only a matter of time before they have to come to a decision on the manager. The only thing that could possibly save his boney arse is if he plays Xhaka in a three man midfield thus two players compensating for his shiteness and Lacazette has a blinder. But even that’s not likely because of his love for certain players like Giroud and Welbeck and Ozil always has to play so no three man midfield. It’s a complete mess honestly

  11. Bamford10

    Wenger has admitted that he almost left last summer. Kroenke? No chance. He isn’t leaving / selling unless one of two things occurs: (i) some buyer comes in at an absurd valuation or (ii) Arsenal somehow becomes a losing financial proposition.

    The Kroenke-out shouts are understandable but pointless. He isn’t going anywhere, even under protests.

    With Wenger on the other hand, there is at least a chance of forcing him out.

    As for the notion that we cannot succeed as long as Kroenke is owner, this is silly: a smarter and more ambitious manager could easily succeed with the resources available to Wenger.

    Would it be nice to have a smarter owner? Sure. He’d dismiss Wenger immediately. But we aren’t getting one any time soon, and we don’t need a new owner to succeed.

  12. Marko

    It’s worth noting as well that the whole needing fans support and asking them to get behind the team Arsene Wenger isn’t a stupid man he knows he personally has got supporters and fans who want him gone and he’s well aware that if he himself loses his support that he’ll be gone. So honestly the whole get behind the team stuff is really more self preservation stuff it’s more get behind him cause he knows if he loses total support that he’ll be gone. And the only way to get rid of Kroenke is to get rid of Wenger first

  13. Dissenter

    Apparently Kroenke isn’t very good at making money out of his teams. If he fit eh stereotype of a restrictive money grubbing owner then Alexis and Ozil would have been sold off in June.
    Kroenke has his limitations but Wenger is supposedly the “Arsenal man” who “built the club”
    I agree with Leeds; it’s a symbiotic relationship to the bottom.
    -Operation self sustainability was devised by Wenger,
    -Operation self sustainability (as well as the club’s size and history) attracted Kroenke. Kroenke bought a club that he wouldn’t have to spend a dime in, one thatHe We has gullible “libarary” middle class fans.
    This is the Wenger-Kroenke (or Kroenke-Wenger) show. They hav to be mentioned together to avoid these needless debates.

  14. Ishola70

    Bamford:
    “As for the notion that we cannot succeed as long as Kroenke is owner, this is silly: a smarter and more ambitious manager could easily succeed with the resources available to Wenger.”

    It is silly and would not happen at any other club. Only at Arsene FC.

    Even if Kroenke is thought of as a poor distant owner who is only interested in money the notion that another manager would instantly fail with him still as owner is only pie in the sky assumption. The ironical thing is Kroenke was given the nod over Usmanov all those years back because he was seen as hands off. Now fans moan about hands off. Understandable but ironic all the same.

    What we know for sure is that Wenger is done as a top end manager i.e having a real serious chance to win EPL.

    It’s problematic that Kroenke is so entwined with Arsene Wenger.

  15. Marko

    As for the notion that we cannot succeed as long as Kroenke is owner, this is silly: a smarter and more ambitious manager could easily succeed with the resources available to Wenger.

    That in itself is funny cause there’s detractors out there who’ll have you believe Kroenke is an awful owner where Arsenal will never compete for major honours as long as he’s owner but at the same time will point to the 3 FA Cups as evidence that Wenger has still got it. So three FA Cups means Kroenke is shite but also means Wenger is still great… mind blowing stuff

  16. Bamford10

    Gazidis’s comments re the window are frustrating, but let’s remember that we had the window we had because of Arsene Wenger, not because of Ivan Gazidis.

    Wenger said we only needed 2-3 players, and Wenger decided which players we would sign or not sign, not Gazidis.

    As for not getting Sanchez, Ozil or Oxlade to sign new contracts, this is on Wenger, not Gazidis. They were offered plenty of money; they just don’t believe in the Wenger project, like many players before them.

    Gazidis is simply trying to do damage control, reassure the squad that all is well. That he is once again using dishonest comments to cover over the mess that is Arsenal under Wenger is frustrating, but the mess is Wenger’s.

  17. Dissenter

    Ishola
    “Kick the dog nearest to you RR. It’s much simpler”

    Eh…are you recommending animal abuse? :-)
    I hope the first dog that’s kicked is an unrestrained Doberman pinscher . It has the biteforce of 600psi.

  18. Rambo Ramsey

    ‘I fully remember you stating that you would never entertain holding up a Wenger out banner such is still intact respect for the man. In comparison I would gladly hold up both Wenger and Kroenke out banners at the same time. Therein lies the difference.’

    Lol you lying sack of shit.

    I remember very well the debate you are referring to. Except, I was the one calling for combined protests against all of the club management.

    You were the one bitching about how such protests would lead to ‘loss of clarity of message’. You wanted protests to be ‘Wenger Out’ only.

    I have always been consistent in my disgust of the club hierarchy-that include Wenger, Gazidis, Kroenke and the BoD.

    You’re consistent as well, as once again you prove with ‘Kick the dog nearest to you’ comments. Why pretend otherwise?

  19. Ishola70

    Alexanderhenry:
    “Sorry but anyone who thinks arsenal’s future is anything but a write off under this man, is deluded.”

    What Arsenal need to do in the long run is to dump self-sufficiency and so yes a new owner would be required.

    Kroenke is so entwined with Wenger. Wenger is done is a dud now at the real top end.

    How strong would Kroenke be in his ownership if Wenger left? Weak as piss. Kroenke the man who was attracted to Arsene FC because of Arsene Wenger.

    Do you want this man’s position to be weak as piss? Then get your boy out pronto.

  20. Alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    ‘Even if Kroenke is thought of as a poor distant owner who is only interested in money the notion that another manager would instantly fail with him still as owner is only pie in the sky assumption’

    The ‘assumption’ that the reverse would be true, is equally ‘pie in the sky’.

    It’s possible that a manager could succeed under Stan I suppose, but the reason a growing number of arsenal fans are starting to believe that the real problem with arsenal begins and ends with Kroenke, is based on his record and reputation in the US.

    As far as kroenke’s takeover of the club is concerned, you can’t blame fans. They had no say in the matter and when he arrived, they wouldn’t have known anything about him. The man to blame is Danny Fiszman.

  21. Dissenter

    Don’t forget Wenger didn’t any outfield player in the summer of 2015
    He didn’t buy any top striker in the summer of 2013 when several top strikers like Higuain were in th market.
    He never tried to replace RVP when he was sold to United in 2012.
    He has failed to get a proper defensive midfielder since Gilberto Silvia was sold in 2008.

    Wenger has been making these blunders pre-Kroenke and I’m not even sure of this was out world window ever. We have had worse windows.

  22. Bamford10

    Tim Stillman on the Ornstein notes and on the handling of Oxlade specifically:

    “You need to clear the wage bill, you need to make space and you’ve got a squad player worth £40m or so that doesn’t want to play for you.

    So we fucked up the beginning of our season trying to accommodate him tactically & we made a mess of our summer by hanging onto him so long.

    It should be normal business to make that sale and reinvest. Only at Arsenal does a routine piece of squad management like that seem complex.”

    Who is responsible for this incompetence? One man and one man alone: Arsene Wenger.

  23. Ishola70

    Oh dear Rambo.

    You categorically said you would never entertain holding up a Wenger out banner but would be happy to do so with a Kroenke out one.

    The reason you gave for this was because as you put it Wenger has done more for this club then Kroenke has ever done.

    Well this man you have so much respect for has his hands down Kroenke’s pants and vice versa. They are a tryst.

    Shame isn’t it.

  24. Micheal

    Kroenke is the cancer at the heart of our club. Wenger is a poor manager because Kroenke tolerates him. Even Bamford might be able to work that out if we give him enough time.

    The bigger question is what happens when Wengter finally leaves – whenever that happens.

    Kroenke’s track record of “sports management” and Gazidis’s ineffectual performance as CEO are deeply disturbing for anyone who cares about our club. Does anyone have confidence in Ivan or Kroenke picking the right replacement – or do we end up with Wenger Mark 2 ?

  25. raptora

    Alexanderhenry,
    “but the reason a growing number of arsenal fans are starting to believe that the real problem with arsenal begins and ends with Kroenke”
    is that Wenger was exposed for everyone to see for how past it he is and now his apologists are desperately looking for the elephant under the rug.

    There you go, ftfy.

  26. raptora

    My only question is if Kroenke has limited the club’s money in any way or if he in any way has held Wenger back preventing him or Arsenal from competing?

    Net transfer money spending in the last 5 years:
    Arsenal – £210m
    Chelsea – £137m
    Liverpool – £134m
    Tottenham – £15m

    Team salaries 2016/17
    Chelsea – £218m
    Arsenal – £200.5m
    Liverpool – £165.6m
    Tottenham – £121.2m

    The Manchester clubs are head and shoulders above anyone else in spending but it hasn’t lead them to winning ways so I’m not including them.

    Just tell me in what way has Stan stopped Wenger from being competitive. Last three years it’s been Chelsea – now they spend less than us; Leicester – obviously dwarves compared to us; and Chelsea again. In two of the five transfer windows Chelsea ended on profit meaning that they don’t buy just for the sake of buying but they are a well ran business as well.

    We can be as successful as them with the right management. Problem is that Wenger doesn’t want a DoF. He doesn’t want a person helping him with transfers. He doesn’t want a strong CEO. All he wants is an autocracy.

  27. Dissenter

    Alexander Henry
    It’s disingenuous to compare sports in the US to European football.
    Professional sports here is a rare shelter from the capitalistic drive that exist in other sectors of the economy. It’s a socialistic paradise that created to keep the billionaire owners happy, keep the gullible poppulation engaged and the professionals journalists, players and coaches) happy.
    We have player unions, coaches guild, player salary caps, team spending caps, unguaranteed contracts, player drafts and a mesh work of technical jargon to keep statisticians happy.
    The one thing we are lacking is meritocracy. It’s all built on equality and it takes a lot of luck for a team to do well. If an organization stumbles on a quarterback like Tom Brady (who was the 199th sixth round draft pick in 2000), they will go on to win stuff.
    American professional sports isn’t built on winning. It’s all about participation for the TV revenue. A mediocre Washington Redskins will always be bigger (market value) than a successful team like Greenbay packers. Green Bay packers TV market is only one quarter of the redskins. The redskins would have been relegated to division 3 if the league was merit based.

  28. Marko

    Sorry but anyone who thinks arsenal’s future is anything but a write off under this man, is deluded.

    True but you’re forgetting as long as Wenger stays Kroenke stays. To get rid of one you need to get rid of the other first

  29. Bamford10

    And you are right: what Wenger wanted is autocracy. And he got it. And the result is the mess we have been in for years now.

    The guy is s fucking moron — and worse, an arrogant one.

  30. Alexanderhenry

    Michael

    It’s actually becoming almost amusing. Stan is like some kind of pantomime villain.

    As well as his appalling record as sports club owner he:

    1) Moved the Rams from st louis despite promising not to. As if that wasn’t bad enough, St Louis itself now has to pay off the debt on the stadium.

    2) Forcibly evicted people living on his ranch in Texas, which drove one of the residents to commit suicide.

    3) Attempted to launch a blood sport channel in the UK which featured the hunting of endangered species including lions and elephants.

    Currently he is clearly pouring all his resources into the LA rams so Arsenal aren’t even a priority for him. This is demeaning to our great club.

  31. raptora

    Did Kroenke buy Xhaka instead of Kante?
    Did Kroenke buy Giroud instead of Costa?
    Did Kroenke buy Mustafi instead of David Luiz?
    Or Ozil instead of Hazard or Willian?
    Did Kroenke close the door to Cesc because we have Ozil?

  32. Micheal

    “My only question is if Kroenke has limited the club’s money in any way or if he in any way has held Wenger back preventing him or Arsenal from competing?”

    Managing a football club is not all about money. Sure Kroenke has allowed Weenger to spend. If spending money was the only criteria we should winning the Prem title, challenging for Europe and attracting the best players.

    Instead we all know what is happening before our very eyes.

    Wenger is a bad manager and the overall adminstration of the club (youth development, transfers, etc) is a shambles because Kroenke allows it to be that way. The owner (Kroenke) dictates how his employees Wenger and Gazidis are allowed to “run” their parts of the club.

    I hav no confidence things will improve when Wenger leaves.

  33. Leedsgunner

    If Wenger gets fired but Kronke is still in charge — Gazidas will be tasked to find another Wenger clone, no doubt, with Wenger’s blessing… to carry on the project.

    The mission statement to the new manager will be clear == “Don’t rock the boat, shut up and take the flack, and you too will be rewarded handsomely without having to achieve very much.”

    They all have to go. They are all complicit in this culture of mediocrity.

  34. Jasongms

    Just when you thought Ze old narrative “it’s all Kroenke’s fault” was dead and buried.. the usual lightweights trot it out again..

    At this stage, Arsene could go on a mass shooting and I guarantee the thread would be it was Kroenke’s fault LOL

    Kroenke’s apart from being an apathetic owner has one fault, that being his only concern is the immediate bottom line, Arsene’s, on the other hand, is a list to shameful to mention.

    And big LOL at the guy that won’t call out Wenger with a banner, but has no qualms with getting really animated with Kroenke, fans eh!

  35. raptora

    Is Kroenke the one leaving the team always short in quality in some positions not addressing the problem of the squad?
    Is our team having zero strategy vs tough opposition because of Kroenke?
    Did Kroenke pick the honestly ret*rded lineups for the first 3 games?
    List is never ending.
    Kroenke’s biggest mistake is that he let Wenger to be our manager for so long.

  36. raptora

    Wenger has been getting enough money to compete. He’s been getting the whole freedom and credit any manager can ever hope and dream for. He’s been let to rule over a whole club by his own views. Instead of creating a dinasty with all the tools in his hands, he’s turn our team into a stagnating pile of horse sh*t.

    He’s been spending crazy money for shady players. He’s been holding on to players that are clearly not on the required level or players that just don’t fit our style. He’s turn down offers for players on the high just to get them in the team and never use them dragging their price down and ruining their careers.

    It’s a long, long list of the things that he fu*ked up.

    Bottom line is that Kroenke has not drained the money out of the club or something. Wenger has had enough money to compete. Chelsea have spent 2/3 of the money we’ve spent, Liverpool have spent 2/3 of the money we’ve spent, spuds have spent 1/14 of the money we’ve spent.
    The salary at both Liverpool and spuds are drastically lower than ours and we are pretty close to Chelsea wages.

    There will be a lot of changes once Wenger goes. EVERYTHING in the club will change once the autokrator is gone.

    It’s not talked much about how we’ve outspent the last 3 champions. Puts Wenger’s excuses to bed.

  37. Dissenter

    Michael
    I disagree on some points.
    Gazidis isn’t a honorable man but he’s been around football for a while. He’s been around Arsenal for 9 years. He’s in a good position to pick Wenger’s successor. If not him then who should do it?
    The club had contingencies for Wenger’s departure in 2014 and in 2017. He’s dealt with other managers covertly.

    He’s the most qualified person in the club after Wenger to make this footballing decisions.

    Frankly one does not have to be a genius to get a good manager.
    -We offer a good wage,
    -The club is a major European institution,
    -We are based in a major city
    -We don’t intrude in the manager’s business
    -We have a wage bill of £220 million
    – We spent £50 million on a striker in one window and were ready to commit £92 million on a midfielder in the SAME window. There’s money for transfers.

    The pessimism for th post Wenger period is unjustified. We will just run like every other club in England.
    Owner with goals (not going to happen)
    CEO (lying bitch but functional)
    Insightful DoF
    Manager (most managers will kill for the job as a project)

  38. Alexanderhenry

    Dissenter

    I agree.
    As you said:

    ‘American professional sports isn’t built on winning.’

    ‘Soccer’ is though. Kroenke is tying to apply the ‘winning isn’t everything but that’s ok as long as I make a profit’ approach to arsenal.

    Football is a speculative sport- most teams run in the red- but Kroenke wants to run a tight ship financially. Well, It won’t work.
    Clubs can crash in England. If arsenal’s form really collapses, so will its share price.

  39. Pierre

    I am surprised that no one mentioned that the Monaco vice president has said that lemar Was interested in coming to Arsenal so I suppose that puts to bed all the crap about him not wanting to come.

  40. Leedsgunner

    Or worse still, if Gazidas and Kronke are allowed to stay in situ and Wenger is gone, they will find a complete lemon to take charge, wait for him to fail, then usher Wenger back as the manager “to save the day.”

    The arrogant one would absolutely love that and his power would be solidified even more.

    Surely the worst outcome ever.

    They all have to go. They offer nothing to the club.

  41. Marko

    I hav no confidence things will improve when Wenger leaves.

    I mean it will. For one thing a blind eye to the squad will be addressed and then you’ve got playing players out of position to accommodate others and the lack of tactics as well. Not to mention we’ll be capable of making subs prior to the 67 minute.

  42. Jasongms

    “It’s not talked much about how we’ve outspent the last 3 champions. ”

    Pretty much ends the conversation with one sentence.

  43. Jasongms

    “I am surprised that no one mentioned that the Monaco vice president has said that lemar Was interested in coming to Arsenal”

    He actually said that Lemar was interested in both clubs

  44. Leedsgunner

    ““It’s not talked much about how we’ve outspent the last 3 champions. ””

    Who cares?

    It’s not like we are any closer to winning the league are we?

    So typical… stack up straw men arguments aplenty so that the real issues are obscured and the real problems are not addressed.

  45. Bamford10

    Pierre

    Right, but because Wenger was late to the game, Monaco were unwilling to sell. As for why a Lemar would be interested in a move to Arsenal — note that he was apparently interested in Liverpool as well — well, his Monaco teammates were all leaving and Arsenal still have a decent reputation. It is usually necessary for a player to see the shit-show up close for him to realize what a sham Arsene Wenger is.

  46. Marko

    I am surprised that no one mentioned that the Monaco vice president has said that lemar Was interested in coming to Arsenal so I suppose that puts to bed all the crap about him not wanting to come.

    I’m kind of surprised that you’re leaving out the part where he said he also wanted to join Liverpool. Not like you to spin mate. Besides of course he’s gonna say that he wants to get as much as he can get for the player. Can’t have a bidding war with one club

  47. Leedsgunner

    raptora

    Lest I be misunderstood, I’m not calling you out here as it were, nor am I saying you are offering straw men arguments — but I’m saying this is the typical tack WEnger supporters go down.

    If I’m honest, I read your comments completely out of context.I wasn’t trying to point fingers or step on your toes.

    Apologies if I caused unintended offence.

  48. Dissenter

    Alexanderhenry
    You keep citing Kroenke’s decision to move the fans away from his home town as indicative of dishonor but it’s not really true.
    The rams have been moved more times that you midget fare to know. Are you aware that Kroenke moved it from Los Angeles to St Louis in the first place after NPR bought it. Sports organizations move all the time in the states- people still,talk about the Brooklyn Dodgers that moved to Los Angeles in 1957!
    Blame the city’s that are ready to give up education for their children to give billionaires free money to build stadiums just to keep them for 5-10 years.
    San Diego Charges (another prominent NFL team) just moved back to Los Angeles to become Los Angeles Chargers after 55 years in th city because the city told them they weren’t building them a new toy stadium.
    The sentiment here is different. Stop using the stadium move to attack Kroenke. It’s indicative of how little you understand th the system in the states.

  49. Jasongms

    “Or worse still, if Gazidas and Kronke are allowed to stay in situ and Wenger is gone, they will find a complete lemon to take charge, wait for him to fail, then usher Wenger back as the manager “to save the day.” “,

    utter nonsense, and speculative.

    Pretty sure even a ‘lemon’ could set up a team to counter a known formation/tactic better than Arsene has unless of course, you think being embarrassed on a consistent basis isn’t yellow enough.

  50. Bamford10

    Leeds

    Given that we could get a DoF and better manager than Wenger for less than we currently pay Wenger, can you explain why anyone with power at Arsenal would deliberately hire a mediocrity to manage the team? What possible good would come from that? The better we are on the pitch, the more valuable we are as a club, so provided it didn’t cost more money, why would they hire anyone other than the best available manager? The answer is, they wouldn’t.

    I get the pessimism, but your narrative doesn’t actually make any sense.

  51. Dissenter

    Your basis is City’s complaint against Arsenal’s unprofessional conduct is becoming clearer.
    It seems Gazidis told Soriano (city’s CEO) that the Lemar deal was being negotiated on th side simultaneously with Monaco, as we were talking back and forth with City for Sanchez.
    They didn’t know that that was Gazidis BS lies to make up for “I have to wait for Wenger to make up his mind”.

  52. Leedsgunner

    Bamford

    If the powers that be Arsenal cared about the product on the pitch, the fans and winning trophies ONE little bit, they would have not given Wenger a new contract. The sad truth is we are not dealing with rational people I fear. They have their narrative and they are determined to carry it out no matter what the sensible thing is to do.

    There is something rotten in N5 and the sad tragedy is the Board has become nose blind to the stench.

  53. Alexanderhenry

    Dissenter

    I don’t claim to be an expert, but from my own research I’ve found out that he:

    a) Promised the Rams he wouldn’t move and did

    b) Left them to pay off the debt on the stadium

    c) Is now the most hated man in St Louis

    The fact that it’s ok for sports team managers in the US to act like a bunch of entitled, feudal barons doesn’t mean that they are somehow above criticism.

    Stan is so arrogant, I’m hoping he’s unaware of how precarious the future of arsenal has become.
    There are no guarantees in ‘soccer’. Does he realise this?

  54. N5

    “I am surprised that no one mentioned that the Monaco vice president has said that lemar Was interested in coming to Arsenal so I suppose that puts to bed all the crap about him not wanting to come.”

    Lip service.

  55. N5

    Alex discussing Kronke, surely not?? have I walked into the Twilight zone because this paticular drum has never yet been beat by him.

    Alex, how are you still finding ways to defend Wenger? Kronke is shit!! yes we get it. Wenger is past it with or without Kronke.

  56. N5

    @Alex, but they sometimes take a break. You should too, you’ll live longer. Stop stressing yourself over Stan. He’s a turd that needs to be flushed!!

    @Dissenter, I do like it when you discuss American sports. I always feel like I learn something new from it.

  57. Leedsgunner

    N5

    Oi back!!! 😉 The place, not the person!

    Have you been to a game yet this season N5? I suspect in light of the disastrous transfer window and defeats it must seem we’re still stuck in last season…

    You alright? How’s the family?

  58. N5

    Hey LG, all good thanks and everyone’s well. Moving to a new house this week so money being save for that really. Hows you and the kin?

    I’ve not been up mate no. It was frustrating me to much to continue. I can’t stand that spending so much money, giving up so much time and travelling all those miles just to continually be told by certian players and the manager that I’m not supporting the club right. I’ve not given up my ST, I’ve given it to my nephew, but it’ll probably be his for a good few years now as I just haven’t got the love for going any more.

    Are you going to go this year, or give the place a wide berth?

  59. Alexanderhenry

    Revealing on Wenger. Also read Ornstein’s assessment of arsenal’s window:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41145505

    This quote is telling:

    ‘The noises from the top are that owner Stan Kroenke is desperate and hungrier than even win trophies, but there is no hiding the fact that he will not be injecting a penny of his own wealth to assist the quest.

    Kroenke and the club are said to believe Arsenal can punch above their weight to triumph using their existing model.

    Bearing in mind that model has shown little sign of leading Arsenal to the level of glory they claim to crave, and that some of their rivals appear to be accelerating away, it remains to be seen if the commitment to self-sustainability will be reconsidered in the future.’

  60. Cesc Appeal

    Kroenke stating he is hungry for trophies is all well and good, but his act of signing Wenger up for another two years directly contradicts that.

    I doubt there is another owner in world football who, if wanting top level success, would sign Wenger on.

  61. Leedsgunner

    N5

    Funny, I’m moving as well as it happens. As for watching Arsenal… I’m torn. I’m tempted to see them when they come up to play Huddersfield but I’m loathe to give them present regime any more money.

    You know, to do my my little bit for the anti- Wenger, Kronke, Gazidas resistance *raised fist* *cue *closing music of Star Wars*

  62. Ishola70

    Rambo you may have stated joint protest but you also said the words that you would not hold up a banner declaring Wenger Out.

    You said Wenger has done more for this club then Kroenke has ever done or ever will. I agree with you on that but for me he has tarnished the respect due to him for past successes.

    Perhaps where the confusion lies is generally talking about joint protest .How far you would go yourself individually in such a protest is what I was referring to when I quote you in stating no Wenger Out banner held by your good self.

  63. N5

    Leeds, that law money finally bought you that mansion has it??

    I’m with you, Its in part to not want to continue turning out as if I’m still fully supportive of the current state because I’m not and paying my money pretty much says to Stan please sir can I have some more, but it’s mainly due to my passion for it dwindling to an almost complete uninterest or even worse, sometimes resentment. I don’t ever want to be one of those wishing for us to lose, because results won’t change the set up, but I do look at them sometimes (see Liverpool 4-0) do an almost comical shake of my head and then close the webpage.

    35 years, I’ve followed the Arsenal and thats how this lot have made me, for shame.

  64. Tomtom

    So Sir Chips prefers horse racing to football and Kroenke is only interested in adding value to his investment in the “franchise”.
    This is watched over by Wenger who is happy to accept mediocrity and won’t rock the boat as he is making mega money.
    We are in for years of serious decline and what we are seeing the last few years will just be the tip of the iceberg.
    Sad that it has reached this stage with no obvious solution for the betterment of the club and the fans.
    Very demoralising for the real fans

  65. Leedsgunner

    Cesc

    Kronke is hungry for trophies is he? I humbly offer my 5 step plan for immediate trophy success for Arsenal AFC.

    1. Fire Wenger
    2. Fire Gazidas
    3. Hire Tuchel or Simeone
    4. Sell his stake to Usmanov.
    5. Inject £300m into the club transfer pot for the new incoming manager to make up for all the years of taking the p*ss.

  66. Rambo Ramsey

    Only on this space can you find a bunch of people( the usual suspects) painting Kroenke’s utter lack of interest and care for the club as some great positive.

  67. Tomtom

    David Smith

    Pretty depressing reading.
    You would wonder how a billionaire could possibly find any joy in letting these teams slip into mediocrity.
    He’s obviously just in it for the money but even at that he’s doing a poor job, surely more investment would lead to greater growth potential.
    Strange situation

  68. Leedsgunner

    N5

    I suspect you’re like me.

    As a Gooner I can’t bring myself to want us to lose… but we win I know it’s for nought because it will just continue the present regime of mediocrity. So even when we win I’m sad because I know that in the long run there is no greater plan or purpose for us to compete.

    We were mugged mate.

    We we sold a dream in the Emirates but now we’re being offered a cheap timeshare in Kronke’s awful amusement park.

    So I’ve chosen to try to not care as much.

    Let’s just say I know how my Leeds friends feel somewhat.

    Betrayed.

  69. Rambo Ramsey

    ‘Rambo you may have stated joint protest but you also said the words that you would not hold up a banner declaring Wenger Out.’

    Even in the face of evidence, you continue to lie? You really are a shameless.

    Whatever helps you feel better, dingus.

  70. Ishola70

    Terrifying lol.

    That article should be no news to anyone. You talk as if his record in American sports is a new revelation or something.

    As said to AH you want this owner out quick get his stooge out the door even more sharpish.

    After all this poor owner is at Arsenal because of Arsene Wenger. Wenger was his attraction.

  71. Ishola70

    Pathetic RR.

    Unlike yourself I am not going to scroll pages and pages of past history of Le Grove to show what you said.

    But you know what you said at the time and I know what you said at the time. That is enough.

    As if I’d make shit up like that just ti debate. Don’t be daft.

  72. Ishola70

    I’m surprised really Rambo that you deny it so vehemently.

    That’s good though. It shows you have moved on since then.

  73. Arsene's Nurse

    All the noises floating about from various sources eg:

    https://twitter.com/bbcsport_david/status/904618820073132032

    indicate that the club is all over the place from top to bottom. Doesn’t matter whether it’s players wanting to leave or having a go at one another or the manager not managing or the board changing their tune from one minute to the next.

    There is no direction at all at the club either on the pitch or of it. #omnishambles

  74. Cesc Appeal

    Leeds

    Unfortunately the only way we are going to see any change is with a change of ownership.

    You need someone who wants success on the pitch and understands the connection between on field success and commercial gains.

    Arsenal is basically a defensive shell right now for Wenger and Kroenke’s interests.

    The fans seem to slowly be waking up though and supporting the notion of protests or something to force change.

  75. Rambo Ramsey

    Just been re-reading A Song of Ice and Fire (Book 1) and the little hints and foreshadowing scattered throughout blows the mind.

  76. David Smith

    Kroenke baffles me Tomtom, but guess the reality, he is pretty lazy, just wants the maximum he can get with the minimum effort.
    He seems to have no dynamism or energy whatsoever when it comes to his sports clubs.
    I know Danny F didnt want to sell to AU, but surely he could have done better than this for us, even if it was on his death bed.
    We really need to find a way of getting him to sell up, i would suppose it is just a wait for Usmanov, the African dude or someone else to make him an offer he cannot refuse.
    Any other owner, with players queuing up to leave would either sack the manager, or sell up, but Stanley Enos does nothing.
    Wenger was once a winner who loved the club above all else, to the point his wife left him, but Stans stultifying lack of ambition has clearly rubbed off on him to the extent he is actively complicit in Stan ruining this club.
    If Kroenke doesnt sell, Josh eventually takes over, and when you read what he has been behind with these clubs, it is pretty frightening
    Wenger going will be hugely welcome and long overdue, but reading that, makes you wonder who he will be replaced with

  77. Rambo Ramsey

    Ishola, yes that’s right diddums, I luuuuv Wenger and I hate the thought of ‘Wenger Out’ placards. That explains why I was calling for a mass protest against all of the hierarchy.

    You on the other hand have no qualms about the target of protest. You would hold up ‘Wenger Out’ and ‘Kroenke Out’ together. That’s why you argued and argued that day against my ideas of such a mass combined protest.

    It all makes sense, you have the right of it. You can sleep easy now.

  78. Jim Lahey

    @Rambo –

    What I particularly enjoyed with the novels was the POV styling of the chapters, the idea that you would hear about certain people or events from a variety of characters, each giving their own unique view point. It really made everything ambiguous. The good and the bad was in the eye of the character you were reading.

  79. Rambo Ramsey

    Jim, that’s one of the reasons I always enjoy books or a literary medium over visual medium adaptations.

    Inner monologues add so much depth to a character. Expressions and voice variations, no matter how great the actor is, just isn’t the same.

    Also I prefer book Jon , such a smart, cold, ruthless mofo. The show one is too bland and one dimensional. Jesus Snow

  80. Jim Lahey

    @Rambo –

    Yeah I agree, any visual medium will be limited in how descriptive they can be.

    I must say, a lot of people (book readers mostly) shit on the show, but I honestly think they have done an amazing job, even with season 7. I am glad they are going in a completely different direction than the books, so when I read Winds of Winter I will still be surprised!

    Book Jon is a far more complex character alright, book Daenerys for me is unbearable, I can’t stand her..

  81. Wallace

    that bbc/Ornstein link that AlexanderHenry posted at 14:56 is fascinating. not the Wenger stuff at the top, but his analysis of the transfer window further down.

  82. Jim Lahey

    @N5 –

    “You don’t get good tits in books *said in caveman like manner!!”

    Ha you get some pretty fucked up things in the book that they obviously couldn’t show on TV too!

    “Jim, at least GoT seems to bring us all happiness”

    I think Arsenal’s past seasons mirror perfectly Price Oberyn’s fight with The Mountain!

  83. N5

    “I think Arsenal’s past seasons mirror perfectly Price Oberyn’s fight with The Mountain!”

    Ha ha, Jim this is the Transfer Window that the methophorical eyes popped.

  84. Jim Lahey

    @N5 –

    “Ha ha, Jim this is the Transfer Window that the methophorical eyes popped”

    Yup! Cockiness followed by the eye gouging, skull crushing reality! (I have only ever watched that scene once.. horrendous!)

  85. Rambo Ramsey

    N5, you watch GoT for the teats? Your missus will be chasing you through the house if she finds out 😀

    Jim, book Dany is alright. We see her doubts and vulnerabilities more often. GRRM lost his magic touch though. There is such a contrast between the first and fifth book. One is concise and easy to read, the latter an overelaborate mess.

  86. Jim Lahey

    @Rambo –

    “There is such a contrast between the first and fifth book. One is concise and easy to read, the latter an overelaborate mess.”

    That is true, people like to blast the later seasons of the show for its inconsistency yet refuse to admit the decline of quality in the books themselves.

    A Dance with Dragons came out over 6 years ago.. I honestly think the delay with Winds of Winter is that GRRM is very concerned with the quality.

  87. Rambo Ramsey

    Jim, Martin is older than Wenger. Its weird to think any writer after putting years of work on the story may never get to conclude it. Why is he so lazy?

  88. Jim Lahey

    @Rambo –

    Maybe he is afraid that it won’t live up to expectation?! Winds of Winter should be out in the next year then he needs to start and finish A Dream of Spring.. and if something should happen to him before that time Brandon Sanderson will finish it, so it will be completed one way or another!

  89. N5

    That article in the Guardian regarding Kronke is very worrying stuff. How he has become so wealthy is beyond me. He manages to sell mediocre performances to all types of fans over various sports which preys on the loyalties of life long supporters.

    He is a cancer to the club!

  90. Barney75

    I’ve already said this but that article in the Guardian is a bit one-sided. Kroenke was involved with the St Louis Rams when they were the ‘greatest show on turf’ and won one Super Bowl and lost another. That he lucked out on Kurt Warner is a bit unfair…you could just as easily say that the Patriots lucked out on Tom Brady or that the Seahawks lucked out on Russell Wilson. The Rams are not the only team heading to LA..see the Chargers, whilst to many fans’ dismay the Raiders are moving to Vegas. There are plenty of other long suffering NFL teams too..the Browns, the Jets, Titans, Jaguars, Bills haven’t been to the playoffs in a while, whilst there are plenty of teams who’ve never won the Superbowl. Can’t speak for the other sports although I did read the Nuggets have posted more 50 win seasons under Kroenke than ever before. Kroenke is not the right man for Arsenal but this article, like most in the Guardian, is totally unbalanced.