Arsenal Protest > DO NOTHING | Wenger trots out humiliating excuse

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It’s a big day today, Arsene Wenger is aware of the protest, that of the ‘DO NOTHING’ variety, that may or may not take place this evening.

I don’t have a ticket, but I wouldn’t go. Dicking a few teams on their holiday’s after the total capitulation on all fronts we’ve faced this season (FA Cup is coming) doesn’t have me convinced Wenger is right to lead us forward. The hope for the fans right now is that Ivan can utilise the leverage he may or may not have going into the big contract negotiations post season.

One item he might be able to lean on is the lack of fans in the ground. I had some back and forth about this online. Some people are saying that not going isn’t a protest… err… kind of the biggest protest you can make as a fan.

Protesting outside the ground is a bit ridiculous when you think about it. It’s kind of like standing outside a restaurant you used to enjoy, waving your ‘HEAD CHEF OUT’ placard, then going inside, and ordering a bottle of red with the best filet mignon on the menu.

Choosing not to show up to a ticket you’ve paid for when we’re about to lose football for 3 months is literally the most agressive form of dissent open to a fan. An empty seat is symbolic. In fact, one of the reasons the Premier League has such mega TV deals is the PASHUN the home fans have for the game. 93% capacity across the land. Quite remarkable. Italian football is more technical than ours, but they play to empty stands. Outside the major clubs in Spain, you don’t get full capacity week in week out. So when people say the club won’t pay attention, it’s a nonsense.

If you’re a brand like Adidas, and Ivan is asking you for £70m to sponsor the shirt after Puma… what are you going to say to screw that number down?

“Mate, you can’t even fill your ground every week and the atomsphere if f*cking toxic online. Why would I put my brand there?’

Do you think Chelsea struggled to fill the ground last night? No way. How many times do you think Spurs had 12.5% of their home fans missing this season (average number of fans missing in 2014 can you believe!)?  How many times have Liverpool struggled to fill their ground this season? Not many… but we have Arsene as our overlord, and he offers up a boring product. However, he does try and sell it as something special. This is him yesterday on the Bayern game and his lack of progress this season.

“I think we suffered a lot when we went out of the Champions League under special circumstances. If you look at just the first halves, we would have qualified.

“Would 75 points be progress? I don’t want to go into conclusions too early but it shows that if we can make 75 points it is good because I won the championship with 78.

“You had basically two leagues, with the top six and everyone else.”

Worst thing is some fans will be nodding along to this sort of tripe. This is the manager of Arsenal FC, one of the most prestigious sporting clubs on the planet, and that’s how he’s framing going out of the Champions League 10-2. Also, ‘special circumstances’, no mate, exactly the same ones for 7 years running at the same point in the competition. The special circumstance is you’re the only manager in Europe who can’t be fired for being a bad coach.

So anyway, back to my point. Don’t go this evening. Make a point. The media now know about it. Arsene knows about it. Every empty red seat will make and impact and attack his power at the end of the month.

It’s your last chance to make an impact in an easy game.

In other news, absolute banter that Wenger swiped at teams “being on holiday” when he’s overseen 3 easy victories against teams taking it so easy, they were sneezing mojitos. Mourinho even came out and said of the last few games, “in this moment the Premier League is just matches we don’t want to play.”

Well, Pep G came out and had a pop back at the mind games clearly aimed at derailing his City and Klopp’s Liverpool.

“I never saw one player in my life go to the pitch and don’t try to win the game and when the target is done, it’s done, but so if you don’t want that, win more games yourself, or qualify before or win the champions league, and after we don’t have the problems for the other ones.”

He also made the point that I just made a few paragraphs up.

“Yeah, but he [Wenger] plays against Everton and Sunderland, no? Both teams are done, no? One is relegated and one is in the Europa League, so it’s the same situation, so you don’t want to complain, do it better during in the season and you will not have this problem.”

There isn’t much to talk about regarding the starting line up, Sanchez is nursing a kicked thigh. Outside that, I’d be surprised not to see a similar side to the Southampton one. It’s going to be drab, Sunderland are awful and finished, we have perked up now #Top4 is on, so we’ll probably win. Let’s just hope it’s in a fairly empty ground so the focus of the match report is disgruntled fans.

Final ask, we’re running a podcast this evening, we have a number you can call to tell us what you think should happen with Arsene Wenger moving forward.

+44 020 3868 6265

Leave your name, where you’re from, and what you’d like to see happen as we close out the season. BE NICE.

Keep it snappy. Best one’s go in the pod!

 

531 Responses to “Arsenal Protest > DO NOTHING | Wenger trots out humiliating excuse”

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  1. Bamford10

    Jim

    I’ll use whatever pronouns I like. Thanks. “You” might be misread as “you, Jim” or “you, Ishola”.

    And I teach literature and composition, so I sometimes slide into more formal ways of talking. Thanks for your input, though.

  2. Carts

    CC

    I disagree with you there. The skeptic in you places far more blame on the board than Wenger.

    Let’s take 2011. We spent close to £70m on the likes on Ox and Santos et al. £70m. Are you telling me that the board would’ve vetoed two signings at £35m each or 3 signings at £23m each?

    And what kind of fickle board must we have to reject giving Wenger an extra £7m for Higuain; to then bid £40m +£1 for Suarez; to then cough up all of £42.5m for Ozil…

  3. Bamford10

    Jim

    Great. So you agree that we don’t need to sign 80-90m players. Let’s just leave it at that.

  4. Ishola70

    If Arsenal ever employed Tuchel he should walk out on the pitch at The Emirates to meet the fans with this song playing in the background.

    A nutty German tune for a nutty German football manager.

  5. Barking Arsene

    Jim

    I don’t remember the exact number but it was a few million.

    Apparently anyway – that’s if the original figure was to be believed.

    All I know is it was more than an extra £1.00

  6. Bamford10

    Ishola

    Yes, I’m quite sure I enjoy watching those teams play football. Nice try at reading my mind, though.

  7. Bamford10

    I was opposed to the Ozil signing when it occurred — I thought we needed a quality CF more than we needed a CAM — but knowing what we know today, would anyone here still sign Ozil for 43m? Genuinely curious.

  8. Jim Lahey

    @Barking Arsene –

    “Sorry should be £32m”

    Ah there is the problem! Why spend that money on one player when you can turn around and get Welbeck and Chambers for the same price!!

  9. Champagne charlie

    Carts

    Higuain wasn’t the star he is now, then. Ozil was. You’re comparing Apples to oranges.

    Also, you think a board with as much focus on finances are going to be keen on granting an extra 7 million pounds days after a fee of 23 mil was agreed?

    You’ve not told me why Wenger, who wanted the player, wouldn’t spend the money we supposedly had?

    Bamford
    Not going to go into the game of “pick your fave quote” because I could represent about 10 different stances with regard to Arsenal. Wenger himself for instance has also stated on record he would pay whatever for a player if it was the right player. So let’s not

  10. Wallace

    Carts

    “Although your net spend argument between 2005-2013 is moot. Other club spending billions doesn’t excuse Wenger poor purchases.”

    no, but if you send two people out to buy a car, you give one £1,000 and the other £50,000, you can’t really complain when the first guy comes back with a lesser product.

  11. Bamford10

    Jim

    “Ah there is the problem! Why spend that money on one player when you can turn around and get Welbeck and Chambers for the same price!!”

    So maybe we can compete with the money we have, we just need to spend it more intelligently?

  12. Mr.J

    “The skeptic in me thinks in situations like Higuain from Madrid we proposed the 23mil transfer to the board, got the green light. Then when Napoli came in and the new tag was 30 it was rejected by the board as excessive. Because no matter what justification someone tries to concoct, the idea a top tier manager would happily miss out on players he clearly wants for money we supposedly have, is nonsense – irrrrspective of the distaste towards the guy.”

    CC come on man. You talking as if the manager as rational…

    This is wenger we’re talking about

    Explain why we missed out on Alonso? (the manager was quoted in say that Alson would’ve killed the careers of Denilson & Diaby) Or why we didn’t bid for Kante but got Xhaka instead.

    Do you remember that time we played Arshavin up front but Wenger refused to buy a striker because Bendtner was coming back from injury???

    Why did we not buy a single outfield player last season?

    Do you remember when we needed a striker to win the league to take the burden off Giroud, EVERYBODY KNEW THIS. And what does Wenger sign? BrokeBackKallstrom. Who does that??? Explain.

    Are you suggesting that Wenger is sane and in his right mind compared to even that of a simpleton??

    Forget foresight or insight… Wenger doesn’t even use hindsight. Common sense is merely wishful thinking with him.

    I haven’t even listed the half of what that so-called ‘top manager’ has done over the years… and even that which is listed provides sufficient argument for your above comment.

  13. Champagne charlie

    ” but knowing what we know today, would anyone here still sign Ozil for 43m? Genuinely curious.”

    Wasn’t a priority then as you say. Cazorla had just scored 11 and assisted 13 as the teams CAM in his debut season. Upgrading that position was incremental improvement at best.

    Would have rather spent 40 mil as you say on a top striker, or couple of quality wide men to supplement Giroud.

    On Lacazette…..
    Lacazette has had an offer from the “club of his heart” and if they agree a deal with Alton he will be allowed to leave to honour the player.

    Who does everyone think the “club of his heart” is?

    Do I foolishly believe a young French striker may have eyes for Arsenal?

  14. Barking Arsene

    Bamford

    I’m going to put my flame suit on and say I don’t think signing Ozil was the problem, per se.

    It was the fact that if you sign Ozil without a plan to build a counter attacking team with pace in front of him so he can flourish, he will fail to live up to the hype.

    Would I sign him again? In isolation no. If we were going to build a team to his strengths then yes.

    Kind of a complicated issue with him though I feel.

    On a side note we 100% needed a CF in that window. Still do really.

  15. Bamford10

    Wow, Champagne, we agree on something. Warms my heart.

    We also agreed on Coquelin, btw. Long before you arrived here, I was issued death threats for saying that he wasn’t good enough a CDM to get us to the next level. Just a squad player.

  16. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “So maybe we can compete with the money we have, we just need to spend it more intelligently?”

    You see.. I never said that we shouldn’t use our money in a more meaningful manner….

    And no, as I have been over (and over) we can’t compete with the money we have in the LONG RUN, we can make sporadic challenges and maybe even win a league every now and then.

    How about we buy all 3 players as an alternative?!

  17. Mr.J

    “Ah there is the problem! Why spend that money on one player when you can turn around and get Welbeck and Chambers for the same price!!”

    I know you don’t really believe this.

  18. Champagne charlie

    Mr.j

    Look mate I get where you’re coming from and I share those frustrations, believe me.

    But you have to appreciate managers say things in public akin to sports psychologists, so you could easily see that as a vote of confidence for Denilson/diaby etc. However stupid.

    All I’m saying is there’s no grounds for understanding why a manager would identify a player, and then not use the money available to get him. He’s talked of respecting the money we have and hat he’ll only spend what we have, so I genuinely feel that in most of these circumstances we have decided against the outlay.

    Not discounting however that Wenger has misjudged some cases very badly re:alonso. The greater picture though, I just don’t but we have the money suggested available for transfers.

    We bought Lucas for 17mil, why not Lacazette for 35mil if we had the money? We wanted the player. That transfer behaviour reeks of frugality and attention to spending

  19. JEB11

    Thoughts on Pep coming out and saying “In my situation, at a big club, I’m sacked”? Seems like he understands the magnitude of not winning the title. Top 4 is not enough to gurantee safety in your job no matter how successful you have been previously.

    How the hell has Wenger lasted this long, with minimal results?!?! Does he really have that much power to determine his own destiny? Is our board just that spineless and um? Or both?

  20. Mr.J

    Seriously… who signs a man with a broken back??

    Top of the league and need a striker to consolidate and that simpleton signs a man who can’t even play.

    You know what, remembering that Kallstrom signing has spoilt my day.

    CC.

    I want you to explain that to me and then justify your “…the idea a top tier manager would happily miss out on players he clearly wants for money we supposedly have, is nonsense – irrrrspective of the distaste towards the guy.” comment

  21. Ishola70

    Lacazette will probably go to Atletico to be seen as replacement from Man United bound Griezmann.

    Wenger meanwhile will sit on his existing players Giroud and Welbeck.

  22. Champagne charlie

    Bamford

    Oh I know too well your stance on coquelin, I’m aware we have our moments of parity. It’s refreshing

  23. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    Okay so here is the crux of the matter:

    You believe (please correct me if I am wrong) that a new manager and staff with approx £90-100m a year can compete every year for both the league and CL?

    I believe that a new manager and staff can compete with approx £150-160m a year.

    Now, I believe the reason you are so against the notion of Stan putting his hands in his pockets is that you think it could be used as some sort of excuse for Wenger’s failures.

    I mean, honestly, how are you so against the owner actually contributing to the club instead of just taking?

  24. Jim Lahey

    @Ishola –

    “Lacazette will probably go to Atletico to be seen as replacement from Man United bound Griezmann.”

    Do you think United will bring in both Grizmann and James this summer? It seems like the James deal is already done… :(

  25. Ishola70

    We do not know whether Wenger wants to sign players just because it is all over the press.

    To state that he wanted to sign so and so because all the sports media said so is spurious at best.

  26. Barking Arsene

    JEB11

    Noticed that Pep said at a “big club” he would be sacked.

    Interesting reading into that as maybe he considers City a rich club rather than a big club.

    Wonder if that will upset anyone?

  27. Champagne charlie

    Mr.j

    What do you want explained?

    The idea Wenger wanted Higuain, but then didn’t want to pay the fee that WE COULD AFFORD doesn’t make sense to me.

    It’s petty to suggest the manager identified a player, entered negotiations, in came competition, we could still afford the player, yet the manager says no thanks. It’s 2 things:

    Total fantasy, with no reason whatsoever to justify. Instead the actual reason being we couldn’t afford to go 7 mil more for one player with respect to our whole budget.

    Or

    It’s a ridiculous principled stance that was detrimental to the club, yet nobody did anything about it – we in fact continued to operate that way.

    For me… no matter how irritating Wenger can be, it simply isn’t sensible to suggest the latter. He’s overly idealistic, but he’s not stupid.

  28. Bamford10

    Champagne

    You’re right; it wouldn’t make sense for a manager to do that — unless he (i) disliked transfer spending, (ii) was offended by existing market valuations, and (iii) aimed to show the world that he could win without adopting its ways.

    That is, it wouldn’t make sense — unless the manager were Arsene Wenger.

  29. Champagne charlie

    Jim

    Yea they’ll spend about 250-300 mil this summer, no bs.

    BUT… if we’re smart, honest, and deliberate then that would mean fuck all.

    Too bad there’s no confidence in us being that way. Lol though kolasinac gives me hope that we’re wising up. False hope? Maybe haha

  30. Champagne charlie

    Bamford

    That’s fine if you believe that, I tend not to hence the impasse. Time will as always, tell.

    For his faults that are clearly apparent, Wenger is not actively choosing to avoid signing players on principle. I don’t think any manager in the world operates this way. We simply have tighter purse strings than fans like to admit.

    That coupled with a poor strategy has meant we’ve been fairly abject in the last few summers.

  31. Ishola70

    .”Do you think United will bring in both Grizmann and James this summer? It seems like the James deal is already done… :(”

    Very possible isn’t it.

    I think Griezmann will be there next season. When you see Griezmann give out to the press recently that David Becchham is his absolute idol then the writing looks to be on the wall on that one. Some were saying there could be doubts if Man United don’t win Europa League and qualify for CL next season but I think they will still get him regardless.

  32. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Please take the time to read my actual posts.”

    haha! I think I will pass on that, once was enough! I am pretty sure I was correct with my assumption!

  33. Champagne charlie

    Changing tact slightly….

    Who wants to put their neck on the line and give 2/3 names they think we’ll get this summer?

  34. Mr.J

    CC

    If you believe that to be the case, then justify the position of a manager who is sitting in 1st place – but it is widely acknowledged that he needs a striker to consolidate a league win, but signs a man with a broken back on lone, then comes out and confirms that he knew said play had a serious injury but still signed him (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26000458).

    Are you really trying to suggest that its impossible and improbable that a man capable of such folly, could back track on paying a few extra millions, even though he had it, but won’t due to his principles??

    History simply doesn’t provide you with any sort of argument.

  35. Barking Arsene

    Wenger is terribly principled when it comes to money though.

    He is fairly open about this as well.

    Some may agree with him and view this as a good thing, but 9/10 times it isn’t.

    Price went up on Hig and he got upset – some people in negotiations would be upset by this I admit, but this is what happens when you go into negotiations openly desperate for a player.

    If we sold off a few of our middle tier guys and bought three or four top players, we could challenge I think.

    In order to do this though our youth system/scouting needs a serious shake up.

  36. Jim Lahey

    @CC –

    That United team will be terrifying next year if Mourinho can sort himself out, he really doesn’t seem to be a good fit for United. But he sure does know how to spend that money!

    As long as Kolasinac isn’t paraded as our marquee signing!!

  37. Mr.J

    “That is, it wouldn’t make sense — unless the manager were Arsene Wenger.”

    This in a nutshell

  38. gambon

    “Do you think United will bring in both Grizmann and James this summer? It seems like the James deal is already done…”

    Been told they are looking to sign James, Lukaku & Matuidi.

  39. Bamford10

    Jim

    I am not opposed to the owner spending his own money. Why would I be? I just don’t think it is absolutely necessary for him to do so for Arsenal to be a great team again, to be a team that contends regularly for titles and wins them every few years.

    I think we can be that while spending only the money we earn as a club. And I think if you look at how Arsenal’s money has been used over the past 5-10 years you’ll see a club that could’ve done much, much, much better if it spent its money more intelligently and if it had a better manager.

  40. Champagne charlie

    Jim

    Maybe Chelsea. Costa is off so you imagine they’ll want lukaku or maybe griezmann.

    Who would you see Arsenal sign?

  41. Bamford10

    Jim

    “once was enough”

    Now you’re just being a twat, mate. If you’re going to discuss something with someone here, at least read the other person’s posts.

  42. Jim Lahey

    @CC –

    “Who would you see Arsenal sign?”

    Realistically?
    Both Matuidi and Turan are available, both I feel are updates on what we have in their positions, both are experienced too. Mahrez is another feasible signing along with Kolasinac. None are huge signings but solid additions.

    Would love to keep Sanchez (doubtful) and clear out a lot of the dross then bring 3 or 4 of the youth players into the set up.

    How about you?

  43. Dissenter

    Jim,
    I think your model of proving the impact of money spent is flawed.
    You posted good numbers on actual transfers which is well and good. What you failed to mention is the impact of money that was not spent.
    There was a time when out cash balance was >225 million, surely that money ought to have been spent on footballing assets.
    I agree with Bamford that money helps but the outcome is more complicated that that. There’s no direct relationship, There are other variable that come into play.
    You posted United’s numbers without considering the impact of the best club manager of all time.

  44. gambon

    Jim

    Im not sure Griezmann is going to leave.

    Rumours are Madrid want a world record bid for him, and I just dont think anyone would pay that for him.

    I think he is massively overrated in general.

  45. Mr.J

    “I think he is massively overrated in general.”

    I also agree with this.

    A good player, maybe very good. But not at those sums

  46. Dissenter

    I think it’s disingenuous and cowardly to attack Kroenke for not dipping his hands into his pockets. He was very clear that this was not his style and was open with the concept of “self-sufficiency”.
    The “self-sufficiency mantra” was widely celebrated by gooners in the 2005-2012 era and we used to mock Chelsea. Chelsea was widely derided as the club of the Russian with dirty money. This blog was replete with post after post attacking the integrity of Abramovich and Usmanov.
    Wenger and Gazidis used the term “self-sufficiency” at every turn with the tacit approval of most gooners.

    You can criticize Kroenke for many things but not spending his own money is off the table. He never promised to spend his money and was still accepted as anti-Abramovich at the time.

  47. Jim Lahey

    @Dissenter –

    ” What you failed to mention is the impact of money that was not spent.”

    Money that isn’t spent doesn’t win leagues… money that is spent does..

    “There was a time when out cash balance was >225 million, surely that money ought to have been spent on footballing assets.”

    Yeah I agree it should have, put once that is gone what is left? we can’t produce that money year in and year out. I agree that if we had spent that money (with a new manager) we could have won a league or two and bought some fantastic players.. but that money won’t always be there. We would have had a possible surge in success followed by a levelling out again when we returned to our regular spending patterns.

    Just off hand do you have any idea what normal cash reserve numbers look like at other clubs? Having that much in cash reserve doesn’t seem normal at all.

  48. Champagne charlie

    Jim

    I think Alexis is off to Bayern personally. Be impressed if we keep him, but not so sad if he’s off for a healthy fee.

    Would like to see Mahrez and Lacazette. Was pretty damning of Lacazette last season and almost actively watched him this year to prove myself correct. Been impressed, I have to be honest. Stats are a bit bloated with penalties, but his movement and mentality are seriously top drawer. Hates losing, so would be a very welcome sight to watch a player scream his head off after missing. Certainly better than Giroud or Rambos stupid smiles.

    Love mahrez, just love him. Total baller, absolutely a million miles better than any player we have when committing defenders (Alexis included). We seriously miss someone with those attributes.

    Got to get a partner for Xhaka also (but I fear we won’t). Instead see us after that fornals chap which again is kind of. Using the glaringly obvious. Would love Bakayoko or an Nainggolan type in the heart of things.

    Then a CB is essential if we’re continuing with 3 at the back. With Kos nursing his Achilles it does make you wonder.

    Overall I think we need a RW, ST, CM, and CB on top of a LB.

  49. JEB11

    @ Barking:

    I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he doesn’t view City as a “big club” like his previous ones. He should tread lightly with comments like that.

  50. BergkampLegend

    “Overall I think we need a RW, ST, CM, and CB on top of a LB.”

    I’m sure KJW would love your list.

  51. Jim Lahey

    @Gambon –

    “Rumours are Madrid want a world record bid for him, and I just dont think anyone would pay that for him.”

    That is interesting, would that be deemed worse than Figo going from Barca to Madrid?!

    Also I agree that the fees banded around for him seem a bit inflated.

  52. Wallace

    CC

    think we must keep Alexis, even if it means letting him leave on a free next summer. a bit more relaxed about Ozil. incoming, I’d like someone to complement Xhaka in the middle, and a quality wide player. also, hopeful Holding & the Ox can build on a promising last 3/4mths.

  53. gambon

    “Yeah I agree it should have, put once that is gone what is left? we can’t produce that money year in and year out. I agree that if we had spent that money (with a new manager) we could have won a league or two and bought some fantastic players.. but that money won’t always be there. ”

    If we had been more successful in the last 10 years our revenues would be much higher.

    More prize money, more TV money, more commercial money.

    Revenue follows success.

    As has been pointed out, we couldve made a £40m profit on Higuain, a £35m profit on Suarez, a £25m profit on Kante in recent years.

    Instead we absolutely burn money spending £33m on CHambers and Perez, one who is shit and the other who Wenger wont play.

  54. Wallace

    “Love mahrez, just love him. Total baller, absolutely a million miles better than any player we have when committing defenders (Alexis included). We seriously miss someone with those attributes.”

    yeah, Mahrez would be exciting.

  55. Champagne charlie

    Wallace

    Disagree on Alexis. He’s been superb this year but was just ok last term. He’s top drawer, and obviously I’d like to keep him and add….but if he leaves I won’t cry.

    That money would have to be invested though.

    Always been more a fan of balanced quality across the front vs one star and two decent options. One season then a free is just not a route we should entertain

  56. Jim Lahey

    @Gambon –

    “If we had been more successful in the last 10 years our revenues would be much higher.”

    Its the United model, success begets more success. Do the Glazer’s contribute anything to United themselves, or is it the sheer size of the United brand that allows them to spend so willingly??

  57. Wallace

    I think operating costs account for 60m of that cash pile every 6mths. still an unusually large cash pile, but it’s not just sitting there untouched.

  58. Jim Lahey

    @CC –

    Yeah I think Sanchez is of too, I wonder if that hefty fee be put back into the squad..

    Yeah I have seen Lacazette play live and was impressed too, there is always the worry about transitioning from the French Leagues to the PL. How much would you think Lyon would be willing to take to part with him?

  59. SpanishDave

    Another manager with this squad would win nothing.
    Another manager spending 150 mil and getting rid of he dries. could win.
    Wenger will win nothing regardless of spending because he buys crap mainly and doesn’t compose a team just a bunch of misfits.
    We don’t even compete for a tile just aimlessly moving sideways

  60. gambon

    Jim

    Not only have the Glazers never put money in to UTD, they have taken a significant amount out. At least Kroenke pretty much leaves the club alone.

    UTD had very competent people, both on and off the field.

    Arsenal dont.

    Not only do Arsenal not try on the pitch, we arent even trying off of it.

  61. Champagne charlie

    Gambon

    No, not like for like or through one player. But we could certainly distribute his fee toward the front three being overhauled and that, for me, would be a better route to take.

    Prefer having a balance of potency across the front vs Alexis firing hot or cold determining things.

    Jim
    Yea that’s the question isn’t it, 45mil I’m guessing. Though that’s subject to change depending on competition and market factors

  62. Wallace

    CC

    I loved watching Alexis at #9. think he’s a far more generous player when he plays there. was gutted when Wenger moved him back out wide mid-season.

  63. Barking Arsene

    Watched Griezmann for a long time and although I like him loads I don’t think he is worth a world record fee.

    For us Mahrez would be exciting, Lacazette would fit and IMO is attainable. Also both would give Ozil something to aim at along with Alexis (if still here).

    Downside is we still need someone to pair with Xhaka and probably another CB.

    So

    CF
    Winger
    Strong CM
    CB

    Is it me or does that list look familiar?

  64. Jim Lahey

    @Gambon –

    How long would it take Arsenal to get to the size of United, is it even possible at this point? And even if we do reach their level I doubt they will be standing static during that time. Looks like we will always be playing catch up.

    As you say we had an opportunity to push on over the last decade, instead we stalled.

  65. gambon

    CC

    I think the best way to give balance to the front line is to buy someone of Sanchez’ quality to play alongside him, not to sell our best player and lower the quality of the team.

    I can see an argument for Arsenal selling every single player in the squad…apart from Sanchez.

    Not to mention that replacing Sanchez would monopolise our summer, meaning we ignore all the other strengthening that needs to be done.

    Even if we keep Sanchez, we need to sign a number of first team players.

    If we sell him we will go into next season with all of the same problems.

  66. gambon

    Jim

    We were neck and neck with UTD 12 years back. The only thing they had over us was a bigger stadium,

    After we moved to Emirates our revenues were about £10m apart…..its not £170m apart.

    We just stopped trying.

    There is so much apathy and incompetence at the club.

  67. Dissenter

    Our cash pile was just the tip of the iceberg of an organization that had just lost the war of ideas for the past decade.
    We banked on a new stadium to take us to the next level——- Abramovich gate-crashes out party.
    We put all our eggs on the financial fair play basket even though it was never going to stand the scrutiny of legal challenges. We didn’t envisage that Michel Platini’s corruption would undermine it. We hoarded money in the hope that when FFP kicked in we would be on equal footing—— We lost big time.
    Chelsea’s approach to circumvent FFP was brilliant, they invested in footballing assets buying up all the best talent money could find and loaning them out. We hoarded out cash in a bank vault when the interest rate is less than the rate of inflation.
    Even Brexit ht us hard because of the devaluation of the pound sterling.

    We have been badly managed for the past decade. The only thing that has kept us going is the capacity of the London gooner population to pat premium fees for polished turd. When the local fans stop showing up the charade will stop.

  68. Barking Arsene

    Jim

    I think if we made dramatic changes NOW (manager, youth setup, scouting etc) we could be up with United etc in 3-5 years

    If we miss that opportunity I don’t see us catching up for a decade at least.
    Unlikely though as it stands.

  69. Champagne charlie

    Gambon

    Clearly buying to supplement Alexis would be everyone’s preference mate, but you can put your fingers in your ears if the guy wants out.

    We’ve not managed it well and he has a year on his deal, if he wants out hen that’s that. Don’t think we are the club for taking a 50mil pound hit on transfer fee for keeping a guy one more year.

    Get rid and start afresh is fine by me provided is done with a type of agression we’ve not seen from Arsenal in some time.

    Alexis out, Lacazette, Mahrez in is fine by me. Plus a fornals, Bakayoko, Laporte etc

    Certainly not going to cling onto Alexis like he’s the second coming, if he goes it’ll be because he wants to not because we want money.

  70. Jim Lahey

    @Gambon –

    That is bleak.

    Do you remember when a book was released in 2008 called “Arsenal: The Making of a Modern Superclub”. The things that could have been…

  71. Carts

    CC

    Hold on, a player who had scored 100 in 192 wasn’t the stars he was now? Now you’re shuffling! We needed a goal scorer. Higuain fitted the bill. Wenger didn’t want to pay the price – irrespective if it went up by £7m.

    Wallace

    Nice try. Nice shuffle.

    Wenger was armed with £70m in 2011. He came back with garbage. Are you now telling me that £70m back in 2011 is the £1000 that you referred too?

  72. Dissenter

    The Glazers didn’t buy United with their money. They used leveraged funds from three New York hedge funds: Citadel, Och-Ziff Capital Management and Perry Capital. that totaled 660 million.
    They just capitalized the assets, repeatedly going back to the stock exchange to sell stocks. They extracted every bit of marketing money from the club.
    They have taken money again and again. They even have united paying each of the Glazers 5 million pension each in perpetuity.
    They have never put in a dime of theie money.
    The Glazers were able to do that because they had the best club manager of all time in charge and he just kept winning, no matter what.

    Jim,
    I think the United story punctures your money theory. There are too many variables involved in winning. It’s not just money.
    The story of Wenger would be different [without big money] had Eduardo not broken his leg in 2007.

  73. S Asoa

    ” The idea Wenger wanted Higuain, but then didn’t want to pay the fee that WE COULD AFFORD doesn’t make sense to me.”
    from someone not sensible enough to see the dementia of a flaying doddering old fool and Imbecile.

  74. Dissenter

    Mahrez has one hell of a purple season. Everything just clicked for him.
    It’s like Ramsey would have had if his hamstrings had not given way.

    Mahrez is not half the play Sanchez is.
    His skill level is just above average- he flunked the AFCON as well compared to Alexis who shows up almost all the time.
    His desire is substandard, he’s another Mesut Ozil. He will be wengerized in 6 months.

  75. Jim Lahey

    @Dissenter

    “I think the United story punctures your money theory. ”

    How… United have money a lot of it and they spend a lot, always have. Now they don’t have an owner that puts money into them but they are a financial power unrivaled, maybe Madrid are bigger? Without outside investment we are not competing with United.

    Dissenter I understand there are many many factors that go into a winning team, but look across every major league and tournament and tell me the majority of the success doesn’t come from teams that invest heavily.

  76. Bamford10

    Champagne

    Agreed re Mahrez. And agreed re potency across the front line rather than one potent player. It’s movement, interchange and combination play that creates great attacks and teams, not great individuals.

    Carts

    Yes, that analogy of Wallace’s was really bogus.

  77. Bamford10

    Jim

    Right, and Arsenal have the ability to “invest heavily” — indeed we are already doing so in many ways.

    Just because you cannot equal United in spending does not mean you cannot compete with them. But we have been over this.

    You don’t think Arsenal can be relevant without either the owner dipping into his own stash or without our outspending our rivals. Nearly everyone here disagrees.

  78. Jim Lahey

    What i would love to see is a player that plays off the shoulder of the last defender. I can’t remember the last time I saw a through-ball from the midfield being pounced upon by a fast mobile striker, runs clear from the defence, rounds the keeper and puts it in the net.

  79. TR7

    Wow !! comment section on the boil after a long hiatus.

    I agree with Jim,CC and Wallace that in football money is king and it’s not even a debate. Although I would say lack of ruthlessness and poor tactics are as big a handicap for Wenger as the lack of money. A ruthless Wenger (who wouldn’t put up with the likes of Ramsey,Theo and Gibbs for more than 2 seasons) and a slightly pragmatic Wenger (like employing back 3 as Ishola said) would be in a far better position to mount a title challenge.

    Agree with Gambon on Griezzman. I think he would struggle in EPL and is anyway over-rated.

  80. gambon

    The biggest problem we are going to have this summer (if the senile one stays) is that our targets should realistically be very different if we are going to play 3 at the back vs 4.

    And knowing Wenger he doesnt even know yet. The guy doesnt have a proactive bone is his body, and is one of the laziest, least driven individuals in the game.

    He will probably decide his formation the day before we kick off next season.

    We’ve all seen before the utter mess he makes of transfer season, and its usually down to the fact we get to July 1st with absolutely no plan.

    4 years ago we went from bidding £25m for Higuain, to £40m for Suarez….only to sign a shot shy #10 who does regular disappearing acts.

    That was sure evidence that there was absolutely no planning going on at Arsenal.

    Mourinho, Conte, Klopp and Guardiola will absolutely school Wenger this summer.

  81. Bamford10

    Jim

    Yes. Look at the comments above. The only person who seems to agree with you — and I’ll ask him if he does — is Champagne. Everyone else who chimed in disagreed with you.

    Champagne – Do you agree that we will “struggle at the fringes” unless the owner spends his own money or unless we outspend our rivals? Or can we compete and be a relevant force while operating within our operating budget?

    gambon – What do you think?

    I feel like we’ve heard from nearly everyone else.

    Pedro – What say you?

  82. Bamford10

    TR7

    The argument is over whether “money is king”. Everyone agrees that money is a decisive factor.

    The question is whether Arsenal can be relevant and compete for titles without the owner spending his own money or without our outspending our rivals.

  83. Carts

    Bamford

    Wallace is having a laugh. Wenger’s stance, and it’s clear for us all to see, when he has bought, is quantity over quality.

    How does a man lose Cesc and Nasri in the same fucking month, but comes back with Ox, Benayoun, Santos, Per, Park, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Arteta?

    It’s only recently, having been found wanting, has he dropped money on Ozil and Sanchez.

    Even then, he’s totally neglected the fact that Giroud needed upgrading, to compliment Sanchez and Ozil.

  84. Bamford10

    Jim

    Why are you being such a fucking cunt? I wasn’t looking for “approval”. I’m quote confident I’m right. Don’t worry about that. I’m just asking others what they think. You know, discussion?

  85. gambon

    We dont need Kroenke to invest.

    But we do need to absolutely max out our financial resources in a way we arent doing right now.

    That means spending every last penny we can, maybe more (borrowing).

    That means selling deadwood, and maybe selling non-deadwood if it means we can invest in quality with the proceeds.

    That also means being realistic with wages.

    If UTD, City and Chelsea are willing to pay £250k pw for a top striker….we wont get anywhere if we pay £150k per week.

    The wage thing is much more important than transfer fees.

    You can buy world class players cheap…..but you will never get away with paying them shit wages.

  86. Bamford10

    Jim

    Actually, I never resort to straw-men. You’re just afraid of your own argument. If we don’t need to outspend our rivals, then why can’t we compete under our current financial framework? After all, we spend a good deal, just not as much as our rivals.

    Do explain.

    What percentage of our rivals spend, exactly, do we need to reach? Why is this not possible under our current framework?

    Do explain.

  87. Leedsgunner

    Instead of leaving Arsenal with a shred of dignity attached, Wenger is making this all about him as usual. By doing so, he is destroying the little goodwill he has left with the fans.

    No doubt, when he falters next season, his excuse will be the fact that he didn’t have Champion’s League calibre players to recruit… says the man who brought in Park, Sanogo and Chamakh.

    How can I be so sure he will falter?

    He spent close to a £100m last summer and he is most likely finishing in his worst league position ever… what’s changed this year? He made the same mistakes, gave the same excuses and suffered the same humiliations this year as we have done for the past seven years at least…

    This from a team he boasted in December was his best offensive unit ever. In fact he says similar things every year — that this or that team is his best.

    Surely if his teams are so good, he should be challenging for the title? Yes? However they are not. So even on straight logic — his teams are getting better and better but he is finishing worse and worse. What does that tell you?

    The problem begins with Wenger… and ends with Kronke.

  88. Dissenter

    James Rodriguez to United doesn’t bother me one bit. He will struggle with the tenacity of the premier league just like Cuadrado struggled at Chelsea.
    He will also struggle with Borinhio. He’s a party beast who will have all the night clubs in Manchester mapped out by December.
    United are just throwing money around.

  89. Carts

    Gambon

    “4 years ago we went from bidding £25m for Higuain, to £40m for Suarez….only to sign a shot shy #10 who does regular disappearing acts.”

    However, According to CC:

    “Also, you think a board with as much focus on finances are going to be keen on granting an extra 7 million pounds days after a fee of 23 mil was agreed?”

    So what I’d like to know is how a board of old men, are going to get butthurt cos of a hike in price. Sound more like Wenger being butthurt. After all, Higuain’s goal ratio was 100:192 at the time, while rotating with Benzema.

    CC’s angle is that the board wouldn’t be prepared to grant an extra £7m for Hig but were prepared to Sanction £40m+£1m for Suarez, which infers that the board are the ones, that, if there’s anything they’re good at, it’s player valuation.

    Lunacy.

  90. Barking Arsene

    Jim

    Ha ha! I gave up on optimism a while back!

    The club needs so many things fixing that unless it happens immediately we have little to no chance.

    I maintain Wenger is the key issue, mainly due to his tactics/spending but also as most of his back room staff are as outdated as him.

    I’m genuinely just waiting on the contract decision – if it goes the way I think then I’ll have to rethink how much anger I apportion to the board!

  91. TR7

    Bamford

    If I read it correctly, Jim’s point was without influx of serious money we wouldn’t compete for the title season in, season out like Chelsea, United and City do bar a few exceptions in between.

    Of course we should have won at least 2 titles in last 10 years (last year, 2007-08 with Rosicky,Hleb,Flamini and Cesc) but his point is not about us winning the odd league titles here and there as is the case with Atletico, Dortmund etc. He is talking about us entering in to the league of Barca,Real,Bayern ,United and Chelsea who invariably win big trophies on a regular basis.

    By the way I didn’t think anyone could enjoy watching Atletico, so thumbs up for finding some enjoyment in watching them. I find them utterly boring.

  92. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Actually, I never resort to straw-men.”

    Ah you do now in all fairness!

    “f we don’t need to outspend our rivals, then why can’t we compete under our current financial framework?”

    Bamford you do understand that spending more and outspending rivals is a different situation right? I never suggested we out spend I suggested that we have more funds to compete… Chelsea have spent more than us by £200m in the last 5 years, we don’t need to out spend them we need to close the gap.

  93. Jim Lahey

    This actually just happened….

    Bamford10
    May 16, 2017 15:00:08

    “Actually, I never resort to straw-men. ”

    Bamford10

    May 16, 2017 15:03:34

    “So the club that spends the most money always wins?”

  94. Wallace

    Carts

    “How does a man lose Cesc and Nasri in the same fucking month, but comes back with Ox, Benayoun, Santos, Per, Park, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Arteta? It’s only recently, having been found wanting, has he dropped money on Ozil and Sanchez.”

    got 55m for his two best players and then went shopping mid-range. crazy, eh?

  95. Bamford10

    Jim

    You think we need the owner to dig into his own pockets in order to be relevant, in order not to be a team always ‘struggling around the fringes’.

    I disagree. As do many others here. I think we can be relevant and compete for titles without dipping into the owner’s money.

    Like every other sane person, however, I agree that spending is a decisive factor. I have never disputed that.

    Let’s leave it at that.

  96. TR7

    Wallace

    “got 55m for his two best players and then went shopping mid-range. crazy, eh?”

    We could have got Mata and Hazard for 55m and if we did we wouldn’t be talking about Cesc and Nasri in 2017.

  97. Jim Lahey

    @TR7 –

    “If I read it correctly, Jim’s point was without influx of serious money we wouldn’t compete for the title season in, season out like Chelsea, United and City do bar a few exceptions in between.”

    YES!! Finally!

    Gambon has suggested that we do not need Kroneke’s investment if we are able to “max out our financial resources” to compete!

    I personally don’t think that is possible in a reasonable time frame, therefore I would like Kroneke to invest his own money to close the gap between us and the teams that have been dominating over the last 10 years!!

    And you know what?? Its not going to happen Bamford, Kroneke will never invest his money so chill!

  98. Bamford10

    Jim

    I knew you were going to say that. What a twat. If the answer to that question, Jim, is ‘no,’ then you must concede the argument. If the answer to that question is ‘no,’ then sometimes the team who wins is the team who spent the 2nd most, or 3rd most, or 4th most. Which is to say, Arsenal can compete without equaling the spending of its rivals.

  99. Dissenter

    “He is talking about us entering in to the league of Barca,Real,Bayern ,United and Chelsea who invariably win big trophies on a regular basis.

    Just spending money didn’t get Barca, Real, Bayern, United and [to some extent] Chelsea to the elite league.
    It is the unbridled desire to win.
    All these teams don’t tolerate mediocrity. Ask Ancelotti , he was sacked by Real and Chelsea after moderate success.
    People forget that Chelsea’s success is NOT JUST ABOUT MONEY. The owner has ruthlessly pursued success and excellence over romantic loyalty or “values”.
    We still denigrate Chelsea’s succes to just money. People forget that Abramovich poached Peter Kenyon [one the best football management minds] from the United to lay the bedrock of their success. It’s not just money they made the right bets and we repeatedly made the wrong ones.

  100. Wallace

    worth remembering when we baulked at going from 22m to 30m+ for Higuain that our record transfer at the time was still Sylvain Wiltord. signed from Bordeaux in the summer of 2000 for 13m. 7-10m is biscuits these days, but back then it was still pretty serious money.

  101. Elmo

    That Wenger has been peddling his ‘special circumstances’ alternative facts in the past few months illustrates what a total echo chamber it must be at Arsenal, where no one accepts responsibility and the entire club is happy to fall in behind a delusional narrative that makes them feel better.

    Wenger waits a few weeks until the focus of events have moved on, then re-writes history to cast the club as being purely the victims of poor fortune. Several weeks after being bossed out of it at Stamford Bridge, Wenger started describing that defeat as down to ‘special circumstances,’ because Chelsea scored one of their goals following a goal kick that had previously been wrongly awarded as a corner. The guy that heads an organisation generating hundreds of millions in revenue is communicating to his club that abject failures like that are solely due to conspiracy against them rather than their own shortcomings that need to be confronted.

    Same story with him now pushing the historic humiliation against Bayern as being due to ‘special circumstances,’ where he re-frames the conditions of a football match as two isolated halves of his choosing (and the first half in Munich we were dominated, despite being ‘hard to beat’). The team lost TEN – TWO, yet the internal club narrative pushed from the top is “on another day we would have won; we showed we are better than them.”

    The sad state at Arsenal is that there is no one left who both cares and has the power to stand up to this. Stan has the power but is happy with a rising share price without having to play the sugardaddy game. Ivan MIGHT think the situation is ridiculous, but it’s clear at very most he only has equivalent power to Wenger. None of the old buffers on the board are motivated to make forceful recommendations.

    So it will go on and on. We all know how Wenger’s excuses metastasize from one occasion when he allows himself to rely on an excuse that he would never have used as a crutch when he had higher standards, to slowly it informing his whole outlook.

    The early Emirates years killed Wenger as a competitor. He learned to rationalise failure as something to be ignored and blamed on conspiracy, to satiate the pride of a man who had been used to winning. That crutch became a consuming addiction. He did an admirable job for several seasons after the stadium move, but in succumbing to the allure of the thin end of the wedge (the early excuses of handbrakes etc), his fierce competitiveness and high standards were forever destroyed and he became an excuse maker who was unwilling to accept his shortcomings and confront them. Over time, this has slowly crept into becoming the club culture: complacent, accepts capitulation when facing adversity, collapses when perceived to be recipient of bad fortune, preferring to ignore external realities (e.g changing transfer market) in favour of comfortable internal narrative etc.

    We all know this is not going to change while Wenger remains. The club culture is still a hostage to the psychological effects of the necessary restraint of the early Emirates years. The only way to break out of this is for the manager to go, along with all his cronies, and to rebuild the club culture from scratch. There’s just not enough will to make this happen, so we will stumble on, trapped along with Wenger inside his compromised worldview, until the day it gets so bad that there’s no choice but to kick him out. It’s a long road ahead.

  102. Bamford10

    Jim

    Gambon’s view is my view, so I’m not sure what your point is. He and I agree: we can compete without the owner dipping into his own money.

    And you’re the one who told us that we would continue to “struggle around the fringes” unless the owner began spending his own money, so I’m not sure why you’re now pointing out that this is a moot point.

  103. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    You’re an idiot, pure and simple, how you are allowed to teach anyone is beyond me!

    It is the exact definition of a straw man argument!!

    “an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.”

    You know because I have been saying it all day that teams that spend the most win the most, all across Europe, its not always the case but in the vast majority it is, but you knew this is what I meant so you posed this question

    “So the club that spends the most money always wins?”

    I mean Bamford come on… this is exactly what a straw man argument is.. If I had been saying all day that every team that spends the most each season wins the league, then your question is a viable one. But… I haven’t.

    Christ you are a moron.

  104. Barking Arsene

    “But we do need to absolutely max out our financial resources in a way we arent doing right now.”

    This.

    There most definitely is a debate to be had about whether money is king – plenty of clubs have spent lots badly and almost vanished (Leeds United anyone?)

    Some spend less and do so very well.

    Juve are a good example. People are asking if they are outspent in thier league – I don’t think they are.

    However, on a European scale they are not in the 2 highest spenders. They achieve what they do via tactical awareness, smart identification of talent and good use of youth players.

    It’s not the only way of course, but it feels like it is discounted sometimes as lucky or unsustainable. Which isn’t necessarily true.

  105. Wallace

    TR7

    “We could have got Mata and Hazard for 55m and if we did we wouldn’t be talking about Cesc and Nasri in 2017.”

    obvious with hindsight that Wenger gambled on being able to convince them both to stay. thus the mad trolley dash at the end of the window. signing Mata or Hazard would have required serious groundwork being carried out months prior to any deal being concluded.

  106. jwl

    Arsenal can compete for title consistently if club spent money wisely. I am convinced that if Arsenal bought three proper world class players – striker and two central midfielders that compliment one another – we would compete for league each season.

    ManCity and Chelsea spend way too much on players, they throwing money around unnecessarily, while Manure is being asset striped by their American owners but still spend large amount of money. Arsenal are largest club in London, London is largest city in Europe, and gooners are quite wealthy as they are paying highest ticket prices in world.

    Arsenal should be top club in England, at least, if we had ambitious manager who used club’s resources wisely. And if Arsenal started to be attractive club to watch/support again, more money would come into club and they could spend even more.

  107. TR7

    Dissenter

    I don’t disagree with you there but ruthlessness of those clubs is a corollary or a consequence of their owners pumping in big money. Would Stan have the gall to demand big trophies from Wenger when he invests fuck all really in to our squad (I’m not excusing Wenger for his failures, merely talking about a broader picture). Abrahmovic has every right to demand big trophies and beautiful football when he provides all the resources to his managers, the same goes with Real and Barca owners/Presidents.

  108. Bamford10

    Jim

    Now you’re just flailing about. If the team who spends the most does not always win, then there is no reason why Arsenal — who are capable of spending a great deal, the 2nd most, the 3d most, etc. — cannot compete. Which was your claim.

    And again, you cited gambon favorably, except that his view is in accord with mine.

    And further, you’re the one who made a point that you are now telling us is moot.

    As I said above, let’s just agree to disagree. I’ve made my point — Arsenal can be relevant without the owner dipping into his own pocket — and now you’re just devolving into empty ad hominems.

  109. Wallace

    financially Utd are on another planet. from everyone. no other club could miss out on the champions league 5 seasons in a row and still be able to pony up 90m for a player. they could do it again this summer, as well. and next.

  110. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Now you’re just flailing about.”

    Nah you’re just upset as I caught you doing something you had not 3 minutes prior said you never do.. salty much?

    “And again, you cited gambon favorably, except that his view is in accord with mine.”

    Is it.. funny I don’t recall you making those suggestions until Gambon did.. hmm.

    “If the team who spends the most does not always win, then there is no reason why Arsenal — who are capable of spending a great deal, the 2nd most, the 3d most, etc. — cannot compete.”

    I once again ask you to look at the winners of the league since abramovich’s arrival.

    “As I said above, let’s just agree to disagree. ”

    Yup we can agree to that at least!

  111. TR7

    Juventus is arguably the biggest club in Italy now with the demise of Milan clubs. They have an added advantage of being the top attraction for any quality Italian player who wants to remain in Italy. This is why they don’t need to spend mega to lure big talents. Besides, they don’t have big money club as their rivals.

    Bayern is in a similar position. Their team is full of German nationals who naturally want to play for Bayern. They don’t even need to outbid other clubs all the time to lure players away from other German clubs and even from clubs in other leagues.

    Arsenal on the other hand have to compete with at least 3 other clubs if they were to sign a Rooney, Ferdinand or Sterling and outbid all of them. That’s why I don’t think comparing us to Juve is quite fair on spend argument.

  112. Jim Lahey

    Okay how about this…

    £90m this summer – Who are we buying?

    £150m this summer – Who are we buying?

    What are the areas we need to improve on??

  113. Dissenter

    TR7,
    “I don’t disagree with you there but ruthlessness of those clubs is a corollary or a consequence of their owners pumping in big money. Would Stan have the gall to demand big trophies from Wenger when he invests fuck all really in to our squad”

    Stan never promised to invest money in Arsenal. He was very clear about “self-sustainability” from the very beginning so you cant be knocking him for that now. Usmanov pitched the investing line and was shouted down by most gooners. At the time, the anti-Chelsea pitch was the flavor of the month. We used to deride Chelsea and then City for the character of the owners. We were proud to be self-sustaining. You cant have it both ways my friend.

    Stan ought to have taken a more active interest. He should never have allowed Wenger to slowly turn the club into a French [sorry Karim 😉 ]socialistic experiment.
    The mistakes we made was to hoard money when we ought to have started spending it on footballing assets. We also shifted the financial gains of the new stadium to excessively rewarding average players on potential to keep them rather than on performance.
    We became scared and conservative exactly at the wrong moment. This was a time when we needed to courage to take big risk and not wait for FFP to kick in.

  114. Carts

    Wallace

    “got 55m for his two best players and then went shopping mid-range. crazy, eh?”

    What we made from player sales was £66m – but let’s just round it to £70m for the sake of argument.

    £70m on low-range > mid-range players was never going to take us to the “next level”? agreed??

    My point was that your net spend argument is redundant as Wenger was armed with the best part of £70m in 2011, and as you said bought “mid-range”, therefore, what has other teams got to do with Wenger spending poorly?

    Just cos my neighbour, in the £1.5m house eats Wagyu beef for dinner, doesn’t mean that, I , who lives in a £500k flat, has to eat fox shit for dinner, does it?

  115. Jim Lahey

    I have to say Bayern really do annoy me, is there another team in Europe that can take their oppositions players which such ease? Really cripples the competitiveness of the league.

  116. Jeff

    Given that most of us on here agree that no matter how much Wenger spends he can’t win anything, doesn’t that make all arguments about Kroenke’s tendencies for thrift a bit irrelevant?

    Kroenke is just an absent father. The child has grown up, taken over the family at home and is running riot. It’s time he was disinherited and told to stop sponging off.

  117. Carts

    Wallace

    “worth remembering when we baulked at going from 22m to 30m+ for Higuain that our record transfer at the time was still Sylvain Wiltord. signed from Bordeaux in the summer of 2000 for 13m. 7-10m is biscuits these days, but back then it was still pretty serious money.”

    So how much was Andrei Arshavin??

    Well at least you’re honest in that Wenger was stupid as far back as 2011, if he was baulking at £30m players, knowing full well that his tried and tested method of buying unproven cheap players was never going to win him shit

  118. Jeff

    Oh and as far as the contract goes, he will announce the obvious soon after the FA cup final – whatever the result either in that or the PL.