Arsenal Protest > DO NOTHING | Wenger trots out humiliating excuse

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It’s a big day today, Arsene Wenger is aware of the protest, that of the ‘DO NOTHING’ variety, that may or may not take place this evening.

I don’t have a ticket, but I wouldn’t go. Dicking a few teams on their holiday’s after the total capitulation on all fronts we’ve faced this season (FA Cup is coming) doesn’t have me convinced Wenger is right to lead us forward. The hope for the fans right now is that Ivan can utilise the leverage he may or may not have going into the big contract negotiations post season.

One item he might be able to lean on is the lack of fans in the ground. I had some back and forth about this online. Some people are saying that not going isn’t a protest… err… kind of the biggest protest you can make as a fan.

Protesting outside the ground is a bit ridiculous when you think about it. It’s kind of like standing outside a restaurant you used to enjoy, waving your ‘HEAD CHEF OUT’ placard, then going inside, and ordering a bottle of red with the best filet mignon on the menu.

Choosing not to show up to a ticket you’ve paid for when we’re about to lose football for 3 months is literally the most agressive form of dissent open to a fan. An empty seat is symbolic. In fact, one of the reasons the Premier League has such mega TV deals is the PASHUN the home fans have for the game. 93% capacity across the land. Quite remarkable. Italian football is more technical than ours, but they play to empty stands. Outside the major clubs in Spain, you don’t get full capacity week in week out. So when people say the club won’t pay attention, it’s a nonsense.

If you’re a brand like Adidas, and Ivan is asking you for £70m to sponsor the shirt after Puma… what are you going to say to screw that number down?

“Mate, you can’t even fill your ground every week and the atomsphere if f*cking toxic online. Why would I put my brand there?’

Do you think Chelsea struggled to fill the ground last night? No way. How many times do you think Spurs had 12.5% of their home fans missing this season (average number of fans missing in 2014 can you believe!)?  How many times have Liverpool struggled to fill their ground this season? Not many… but we have Arsene as our overlord, and he offers up a boring product. However, he does try and sell it as something special. This is him yesterday on the Bayern game and his lack of progress this season.

“I think we suffered a lot when we went out of the Champions League under special circumstances. If you look at just the first halves, we would have qualified.

“Would 75 points be progress? I don’t want to go into conclusions too early but it shows that if we can make 75 points it is good because I won the championship with 78.

“You had basically two leagues, with the top six and everyone else.”

Worst thing is some fans will be nodding along to this sort of tripe. This is the manager of Arsenal FC, one of the most prestigious sporting clubs on the planet, and that’s how he’s framing going out of the Champions League 10-2. Also, ‘special circumstances’, no mate, exactly the same ones for 7 years running at the same point in the competition. The special circumstance is you’re the only manager in Europe who can’t be fired for being a bad coach.

So anyway, back to my point. Don’t go this evening. Make a point. The media now know about it. Arsene knows about it. Every empty red seat will make and impact and attack his power at the end of the month.

It’s your last chance to make an impact in an easy game.

In other news, absolute banter that Wenger swiped at teams “being on holiday” when he’s overseen 3 easy victories against teams taking it so easy, they were sneezing mojitos. Mourinho even came out and said of the last few games, “in this moment the Premier League is just matches we don’t want to play.”

Well, Pep G came out and had a pop back at the mind games clearly aimed at derailing his City and Klopp’s Liverpool.

“I never saw one player in my life go to the pitch and don’t try to win the game and when the target is done, it’s done, but so if you don’t want that, win more games yourself, or qualify before or win the champions league, and after we don’t have the problems for the other ones.”

He also made the point that I just made a few paragraphs up.

“Yeah, but he [Wenger] plays against Everton and Sunderland, no? Both teams are done, no? One is relegated and one is in the Europa League, so it’s the same situation, so you don’t want to complain, do it better during in the season and you will not have this problem.”

There isn’t much to talk about regarding the starting line up, Sanchez is nursing a kicked thigh. Outside that, I’d be surprised not to see a similar side to the Southampton one. It’s going to be drab, Sunderland are awful and finished, we have perked up now #Top4 is on, so we’ll probably win. Let’s just hope it’s in a fairly empty ground so the focus of the match report is disgruntled fans.

Final ask, we’re running a podcast this evening, we have a number you can call to tell us what you think should happen with Arsene Wenger moving forward.

+44 020 3868 6265

Leave your name, where you’re from, and what you’d like to see happen as we close out the season. BE NICE.

Keep it snappy. Best one’s go in the pod!

 

531 Responses to “Arsenal Protest > DO NOTHING | Wenger trots out humiliating excuse”

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  1. Gommit

    To late for SpursdayNightFootball today..

    My performance is turning into a Wenger team under pressure..

  2. Banzona

    I think wenger just don’t want to lost his job. Looking for the past few games, he clearly can set up tactic or motivate the players enough to actually turn up and win. Imagine if wenger does win the league, then he would be ‘forced’ to step down as the manager considering all the bollocks he threw past few years. The tr4phy, backed with a visible progression, is much less a leverage to keep the job. Maybe it’s kinda backfired on him on this present situation

  3. Mike Price

    The time has come that I never thought would, tonight I am choosing to put a tv bracket on the wall mundane houselhold jobs as opposed to watching Arsenal
    the time has come MR Wenger to go and slid down many an inflatable slide while our great club takes another stride forward. Thanks for time but don’t be remembered for embarrassing memes be remembered for the man who led us to an unbeaten season.
    Let the club breath new air. Let us flex our power, stride into the Allianz arena, nou camp or the new shite hart lane with a real sense of we can do this.
    Other than that great blog again

  4. Jim Lahey

    @Carts – Not only the team but the entire club, Henry… spoke out so he had to go. Bergkamp and Vieira all wanted to come back on work at the club but Wenger can’t allow that!

    I have always been of the mind as to never question his previous achievements in the early years as they are best years of Arsenal without any doubt. However, when I think back during those years I can see a lot of what has been happening over the last 10 years also occurring through those first 10. I remember 1999 the year after the double, we lost out to United in the league by a point and lost the Semi-Final of the FA Cup. Didn’t we start that season with something like 6 draws in a row? Then I can’t remember the year maybe 2002 we capitulated in the final few games and lost at home to Leeds, giving United another title.

    Then there was the year of the Invisibles, Wenger’s greatest achievement but also one of his greatest failings. In the league we were fantastic, however we once again went out of the Semi-final to United I think, and the QF of the CL to Chelsea, and not a very strong Chelsea side with Bridge scoring a last minute winner to put us out.

    We attribute Wenger’s short comings to just the previous 10 years, but in all honesty at lot of them have been there throughout his entire tenure. Only not instead of there only being 2 teams that can challenge there are 5 or 6.

  5. SpanishDave

    Wenger will never win anything again, for him the joy is taking part.
    He constantly lies and cheats his way around the club and his overpaid players just lap it up as they receive their pay checks.
    So now it’s a great season to get 75 pts which deflects the truth we are now in second tier Europe.
    We have lost 9 games nearly 25 % of our games.
    We don’t have a squad to win things a couple going out and a couple coming in cannot fix the problem.
    I bet he gets offered a new contract , the cowards are frightened of him

  6. Jack Chatterjee

    I agree empty seats would be the best way to show our protest. This protest should be against the board and the owners too. I do believe the rot starts from the top. So Kroenke should it be allowed to slip under Arsenes shadow. The owner and management of the club should have ambition it will trickle down and ensure we have a manager and a team that can deliver.

  7. Jim Lahey

    @SpanishDave –

    ” for him the joy is taking part.”

    I think the joy is in the power, he doesn’t care about winning, he is the antithesis of Mourinho. Jose is a cunt but he is driven by the desire to win nothing else and he will do whatever is necessary to do so.

    Wenger has no desire to win anymore, that is why he has surrounded himself with mediocre players and put them on huge money so they will never leave, they are his yes men, they will defend Wenger to the death as they know there is no other club on the planet that will pay them the same money and never expect anything in return.

    I’m not sure if Wenger buys losers or creates them, but we can see that the team is full of them.

  8. OleGunner

    So reading a few things online this morning it looks Wenger is nailed on to stay eh?
    Christ, he’s a masochist isn’t he? Lose a game or two in a row next season and we”re back on the roller coaster.To be quite frank, I think Wenger enjoys the turmoil, why else would he think he could thrive in such a sparky environment with years of failure behind him.
    It’ll get real toxic next year fellas, mark my words. The spineless Arsenal fans will regret lapping up Wenger’s 4 game end of season winning streak in exchange for two more years of his incompetence.

    Hilarious shit.

  9. Wallace

    Jim

    “How does everyone feel about United buying James?”

    relaxed. as long as Mourinho’s there. if they can him and bring in a more adventurous coach it would be more of a worry.

  10. Bamford10

    Jim

    No, it’s fucking nonsense. Juventus don’t spend more than we do and they’re in the CL final. Atletico don’t spend more than we do and they’ve won La Liga and reached the CL final. Dortmund don’t spend more than we do and they won the Bunde twice and reached the CL final.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about.

  11. Carts

    Lahey,

    Thanks for the recap. It’s weird cos right now, I’m awash with the crap that Wenger is serving up…so much so that my mind is devoid of his past achievements.

    He’s undone all the, somewhat, good work he did in the past.

    But what you’ve mentioned really is interesting.

    The cracks were starting to appear long ago. And it was only about 6 weeks ago that Arsenal v Leeds was being aired on the SS1 as part of their classic games segment.

    What a disappointment.

    Wenger has pretty much strong armed the the board and Stan doesn’t really care.

    Wenger has absorbed the space between himself and Stan. When Dein left it was a power vacuum.

  12. Wallace

    Jim

    “Money wins trophies, until we have an owner that will put his hands in his pockets we will continue to struggle on the fringes.”

    we’ll never be favourites to win the PL. but I think since 2013 we’re rich enough to be able to seriously challenge, provided we’re smart.

  13. Barking Arsene

    Jim

    I’d be inclined to agree that we could win things with the money we have available under a different manager.

    Better scouting and tactics are the main things we need. Some players need to go etc but we have finished behind teams with less resources than us this season and last.

    I’m not against us spending but there isn’t much point with Wenger in charge. He bought four decent players last summer at a high cost and hasn’t managed to get anything like thier full potential out of them.

    Just wish he would go.

  14. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    I have an idea! Lets have a look at won has won the PL since Abramovich came to England in 2003!

    2003 – 2004: Arsenal
    2004 – 2005: Chelsea
    2005 – 2006: Chelsea
    2006 – 2007: Man United
    2007 – 2008: Man United
    2008 – 2009: Man United
    2009 – 2010: Chelsea
    2010 – 2011: Man United
    2011 – 2012: Man City
    2012 – 2013: Man United
    2013 – 2014: Man City
    2014 – 2015: Chelsea
    2015 – 2016: Leicester City
    2016 – 2017: Chelsea

    Now lets have a look at net spend over that time!

    Chelsea: £586m – 14 Trophies £15m + signings: 34
    United: £485m – 13 Trophies £15m + signings: 25
    City: £792m – 5 Trophies £15m + signings: 30
    Arsenal: £203m – 4 Trophies £15m + signings: 10
    Liverpool: 234M – 4 Trophies £15m + signings: 18
    Spurs: £115m – 1 Trophy £15m + signings: 11

    There is some sort of link here… god I wonder what it could be…. hmmmmmmm

  15. Bamford10

    Wenger has completely ruined his legacy. Yes the club will erect a statue to him, and yes people will point to the early glory years, but aside from the blindest AKBs, everyone will remember the arrogant and stubborn idiot we’ve been listening to for the past ten years when they think of him.

  16. Carts

    “we’ll never be favourites to win the PL. but I think since 2013 we’re rich enough to be able to seriously challenge, provided we’re smart.”

    Imma need you to elaborate on this, bruh…

  17. Bamford10

    Jim

    Right, money helps. No one denies that. But we are in the top four in spending, and with a proper manager, we can win the league. Just as Atletico has, just as Dortmund has, just as Leicester did.

    You are wrong.

  18. Carts

    “How does everyone feel about United buying James?”

    I’ll be honest, I’m not James’ biggest fan. Though his left peg is something to behold.

    I’d be curious to see how Mourinho lines up next season once he’s spent a fuck tonne of money. I’ll also be playing close attention to his prepared excuses and the way he absolutely savages players in the media.

    I’m all for crtiticising players, but some of the things he came out with this season is ridiculous

  19. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Atletico don’t spend more than we do and they’ve won La Liga and reached the CL final.”

    La Liga winners over the past 20 years….

    1996 – 1997: Real Madrid
    97 – 98: Barca
    98 – 99: Barca
    99 – 00: Depo
    00 – 01: Real Madrid
    01 – 02: Valencia
    02 – 03: Real Madrid
    03 – 04: Valencia
    04 – 05: Barca
    05 – 06: Barca
    06 – 07: Real madrid
    07 – 08: Real madrid
    08 – 09: Barca
    09 – 10: Barca
    10 – 11: Barca
    11 – 12: Real Madrid
    12 – 13: Barca
    13 – !4: Atlético Madrid
    14 – 15: Barca
    15 – 16: Barca
    16 – 17: Barca or Real Madrid.

    God… I wonder who spends the most money in this league…..

  20. Bamford10

    I’m not worried about United with James, because Mourinho doesn’t seem to know how to arrange his pieces to get the best out of them. Simply accumulating talented players isn’t enough, and that’s all United are doing at the moment. They should get rid of Mourinho, even if wins the Europa.

  21. Ifedioranma

    All of you that are protesting are very stupid. What are you protesting for? Why not protest against the Board, who are the real problem of Arsenal FC rather than Mr. Wenger. All of you are too immature in that your behaviour. Go to the stadium and watch the ball and pray that Liverpool should play draw or lose their last match. It’s very, very possible. When you protested the first time, the world knew that you have shown your annoyance, and the club would improve next year. What you are doing right now is nothing but rascalism. Look, should any coach handle these players, he will lead them to Nation Wide division and that would be the end of Arsenal Fc! Remember what happened to ManU. And look at ManCity, they are both struggling. I beg you in the name of the Lord to leave Wenger Arsene alone and let him improve on the team next season! A word is enough for the wise!

  22. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford:

    Do you want to look at the Germany League, the Italian league, hell do you want to look at the Champions League to see which teams dominate???

    Its the teams that spend the most money.

    In football money is king.

  23. Bamford10

    Again, Jim. Money helps. No one denies that. But sometimes the team that’s 3rd or 4th in spending wins because of smart management, scouting, motivated players, etc.

    You are wrong: Arsenal can win the title with the money it has. We simply need a proper manager.

  24. Danish Gooner

    We could easily assemble 250 mil to buy new players from.We already have the 90 mil then add Feo 30 mil,Alexis is a certain goner unfortunately 50 mil,Debuchy 2 mil,Joel Campbell 10 mil,Jacky boy 35 mil,Carl 5 mil,Ospina 6 mil,Elneny 10 mil,chezzer 15 mil thats 253 mil and Feo could maybe even fetch more,afterall Raheem fetched 50 mil for doing nothing

  25. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “You are wrong: Arsenal can win the title with the money it has.”

    I am not talking about some one off league win, I am talking about being a dominant side in world football.

  26. Bamford10

    Jim

    “Its the teams that spend the most money.”

    Wasn’t this United this season / last summer? Oh, so I guess there are other factors.

    Your argument is simplistic and dumb.

  27. Danish Gooner

    But the real question is this,would we let Wenger spend it,i say no.I would let Allegri spend it but not Wenger.Allegri could make Arsenal legend in the cl something we have never done.

  28. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Wasn’t this United this season / last summer? Oh, so I guess there are other factors.”

    Oh so now we can look at things in an isolated season by season manner? I thought when people did that with Wenger they weren’t looking at the full picture?!?!

    United have won 13 trophies in the last 15 years, how? By spending money and they will continue to do so until they win again.

  29. Josip Skoblar

    I think Zidane has been doing quite well in Madrid. He even surprised me. Madrid is not an easy club to manage.

  30. Danish Gooner

    If the money theory is argument one for winning ,United would run away with it every year and they dont, because the bull dog is not there to intimidate refs and officials anymore

  31. Bamford10

    Jim

    Juventus are a dominant side in world football, and they do not spend more than Arsenal possess.

    And I’m not sure what you mean by “dominant,” but we certainly have the means to challenge for the title regularly and win it every four years or so. To make the CL quarters every season as well.

    If by “dominant” you mean, look like Madrid or Barca every season, well, no, we can’t be that, but we don’t need to be that to challenge for big things.

    Again, you’re wrong. I’m surprised you haven’t expressed this pov before, as your pov is contrary to pretty much everyone here save an Alexanderhenry.

  32. Carts

    Danish

    this is the problem – Wenger doesn’t do logic.

    He can’t be seen to be proven wrong, either. So he;ll never get rid of that many players in one summer although that’s exactly what he should do!

    Instead of Wenger taking a stance and saying “yep, this crop have let the team down. My initial belief was that I assembled a team of hungry players. Evidently not”.

    Yet, Wenger will go to training every fucking morning, and cast his beady eyes across the training session and tell himself and his marry yes-men “that they’ll get it right”.

    it’s insanity!

  33. Danish Gooner

    There are so many things that have held us back,the nursing of Diaby for 6 years was a massive flaw,i liked Diaby a lot but Dan Smith ruined his career that day and Wenger got to personal with him,we could have signed Xabi Alonso but Wenger refused it because he held to much belief in Diaby,the same with Denilson to much loyalty for a player with very limited ability the same can be said about a lot of players like Bendtner,Senderos,Gallas,Silvester,squillaci,Djourou they should have been shifted far earlier then they did,even Almunia was like some sort of pet project for Wenger.

  34. Wallace

    Bamford

    “Juventus are a dominant side in world football, and they do not spend more than Arsenal possess.”

    not sure you can compare teams in rival leagues like that. we now have 6 teams in England who start the season believing they can win the PL. in Spain – 2, Italy – 1, Germany – 1.

  35. Jim Lahey

    @bamford –

    Bamford you are a tool, simple as to honest. I would say talking to you is like talking to a child, but I would be doing a huge disservice to children worldwide.

    Here is what you do..

    1. Keep repeating that others are wrong and yet provide no evidence that they are.
    2. You constantly talk down to people with some pretence of being some footballing oracle, when in actuality you know very little.
    3. Try to associate peoples views with others on here that are “AKBS” to discredit them.
    4. You constantly tell people that their “reputation” is being damaged by having views you do not hold.
    5. And if all that fails you run to Pedro begging for posters to be banned. It is honestly pathetic.

    I have stated that teams that spend .. they win. It is a simple fact. I have given you ample evidence in the last few posts yet you don’t want to hear it.

  36. Danish Gooner

    Exactly Carts,it is pure insanity the man has always risked a season rather then done the the obvious and shifted a player,look at Feo an absolute waste of space for so many years, a one trick pony if there ever was one,he has been here for is it 13 seasons as an winger and he has just managed to score 100 goals most of them against shit teams,why ,why havnt he shifted him years ago????

  37. Carts

    Wallace

    “we’ll never be favourites to win the PL. but I think since 2013 we’re rich enough to be able to seriously challenge, provided we’re smart.”

    Can you elaborate on this please…

  38. Mr.J

    @ Jim,

    Since summer 2013 until today, Arsene’s spend is as follows:

    Granit Xhaka £33,800,000
    Takuma Asano £5,000,000

  39. Champagne charlie

    Jim
    Not bothered if United get James, he’s special and will basically be an upgraded Mata. Doesn’t change the fact their defence is shit and they have little else to trouble folk in terms of attack. I imagine he won’t be their only recruit.

    Wouldn’t argue with Bamford on money, he’s got a warped view that we’ve somehow been spending like it’s going out of fashion. He’s clueless.

    “Right, money helps. No one denies that. But we are in the top four in spending” – in the top four of spending and in the….top 4 historically. Not a difficult correlation.

  40. Micheal

    Having a successful football team is not all about money. It sure helps and Jim is right to point out that overall the big spenders win more than the moderate spenders.

    But, leaving aside the obviously poor players, we have a decent enough squad today and have had some very good players (e.g. Cesc, RVP, etc) through our hands in the past decade.

    The weakness is the management of the players. Look at Leicester or ask how very small clubs like Burnley or Bournemouth manage to stay in the Pemier League.

    Arsenal under-perform because we have an under-performing manager – not because of our expenditure on new players.

  41. Danish Gooner

    If you want to win the CL you cant afford to carry players like Feo and Oxlade Wellbeck and Giroud etc they make to many individual mistakes during games and they are not drilled defensively,Bayern,Barca,Real,Juve can play 90 minutes without making massive mistakes but the games against Bayern really showed how far we have to go.We need some players that can hold their nerve when the going gets tough not the current crop of pussies.

  42. Jim Lahey

    @GoonerDNA –

    Nothing I have said has been do so in the defence of Wenger and his atrocious use of transfer funds. I do believe a new manager could challenge with the budget we have currently, challenge but maybe not win. Maybe under a different manager we could have won it last year when every other team performed poorly (we really should have on it last year). But if we want to compete year after year in the league in the CL we need heavy investment.

    “Jim, you are aware our net spend is more than Chelsea and Leicester in the last 5 years.”

    Leicester are a once off its not happening again. Chelsea have sold well but lets look at the money they have spent on players over the last 5 year compared to us.

    Chelsea: £507,459,000
    Arsenal: £298,340,000

    In the last 5 years they have brought £200m worth of talent into the club over us.

  43. GoonerDNA

    The ability to buy well and sell well is a bigger problem at Arsenal than the owner folking out 100 mil a summer.

  44. Mr.J

    @ Jim, (sorry pressed enter too soon)

    Since summer 2013 until today, Arsene’s spend is as follows:

    Granit Xhaka £33,800,000
    Takuma Asano £5,000,000
    Rob Holding £2,000,00
    Lucas Pérez £17,100,000
    Shkodran Mustafi £35,000,000
    Cohen Bramall £40,000
    Petr Čech £10,000,000
    Mohamed Elneny £5,000,000
    Mathieu Debuchy £12,000,000
    Alexis Sánchez £35,000,00
    David Ospina £3,000,000
    Calum Chambers £16,000,000
    Danny Welbeck £16,000,000
    Krystian Bielik £2,400,000
    Gabriel Paulista £11,200,000
    Mesut Ozil £42,500,000

    As you trying to say the owner hasn’t put in enough money to win the premiership??

  45. Champagne charlie

    “you are aware our net spend is more than Chelsea and Leicester in the last 5 years”

    You are aware that Chelseas net spend is artificially low in “recent seasons” because they hoarded talent in previous years and sold them high later?

    Yea, you can argue about wise investment etc etc and appreciating player value, but that requires the ability to spend 150-200mil every summer for about 6 seasons. We spent 90 mil this past summer and fans on here think we’re basically on par with PSG.

  46. Mr.J

    “Chelsea: £507,459,000
    Arsenal: £298,340,000In the last 5 years they have brought £200m worth of talent into the club over us.”

    OK, but what have they sold?

    Who did Chelsea buy this season that has seen them go from mid table to Prem Champions??

  47. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J

    “As you trying to say the owner hasn’t put in enough money to win the premiership??”

    Nope, we could have won it, but could we continue winning it?

    Here: Last 5 years spend.

    Man City: £565,650,000
    Man United: £528,800,000
    Arsenal: £298,340,000
    Chelsea: £507,459,000

  48. Wallace

    Carts

    “Can you elaborate on this please…”

    I’m not sure what it is you’re struggling with. 2005-13 we spent about 10m net when others were spunking billions. since 2013, while we can’t match what Utd, City & Chelsea spend, we can buy good players for serious money, and a good manager should be able to rack up a serious title challenge with those players.

  49. Mr.J

    I’m sorry but this cannot be placed at the feet of the owner.

    I you feel this to be truth, then please show us some evidence that the owner has been unwilling to spend… then I’ll show to evidence of Wenger being both, unwilling to spend AND spending poorly!!

    The truth is we spend ever-so poorly and our wage bill compared with Chelsea’s underpins that fact.

  50. Danish Gooner

    The Homogenic teams win the big prizes there have to be a certain correlation between defense,midfield and attack,look at Juve at the moment they are so Homogenic in their play their ranks fit each other incredible,not one position of weakness.Real a bit different in playing style but incredible homogenic form efense to attack but more powerfull then Juve but not as resilient,Barca the most homogenic attack in world football history Neymar,Suarez and Messi fits so well together it is insane and then Bayern machine like homogenity from Neuer to Lewa an incredible team,we will have to create the same to hve any chance of ever winning the cl and it is beyound Wenger because he doesnt teach the right virtues.

  51. Bamford10

    No, Jim, that is not what has occurred here, and now you’re just lashing out with a personal attack like a child.

    You claimed that we will never win the PL until we have an owner who spends his own money on the team.

    I challenged this, pointing out that we are top four in spending without that and that many other clubs have won top honors without being the biggest spenders.

    You then countered with evidence that big spenders — which, btw, Arsenal are — often win, something I never denied.

    I get that I can be a dick at times, but here I’m just right and you’re behaving a bit silly.

  52. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J

    “Who did Chelsea buy this season that has seen them go from mid table to Prem Champions??”

    Michy Batshuayi – £32,300,000
    N’Golo Kanté – £30,000,000
    Marcos Alonso – £23,000,000
    David Luiz – £34,000,000

    Total: £119,300,000

  53. Champagne charlie

    Mr.j

    You’ve been presented with the figures that state we don’t spend near Chelsea, City, United or the three teams we historically finish behind.

    Stan Kroenke is the only major owner that comes to mind who hasn’t put a penny of his own money into the club.

  54. Mr.J

    “@Mr . J And as I have said previously, we should have won the league last year”

    You and I (and everybody else in the kingdom of Arsenal) both know that and agree.

    But look at who won it… did their owners spend millions? (yes an isolated case but truth nonetheless) How much money did Chelsea spend this year to get them from where they were to now??

    The fact is their manager has done well… ours has not.

  55. Wallace

    Jim

    “Chelsea: £586m – 14 Trophies, £15m + signings: 34
    United: £485m – 13 Trophies, £15m + signings: 25
    City: £792m – 5 Trophies, £15m + signings: 30
    Arsenal: £203m – 4 Trophies, £15m + signings: 10
    Liverpool: 234M – 4 Trophies, £15m + signings: 18
    Spurs: £115m – 1 Trophy, £15m + signings: 11″

    interesting table

  56. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “I get that I can be a dick at times, but here I’m just right and you’re behaving a bit silly.”

    That list I posted, I am sure every other poster would attest to its validity.

    “You claimed that we will never win the PL until we have an owner who spends his own money on the team.”

    Where did I say that? I believe I said.

    “Money wins trophies, until we have an owner that will put his hands in his pockets we will continue to struggle on the fringes.”

    We could win a league, just like Leicester City did, but where are they now?

  57. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J –

    “But look at who won it… did their owners spend millions? ”

    Do you think they will ever win it again?

    “How much money did Chelsea spend this year to get them from where they were to now??”

    £119,300,000

  58. Champagne charlie

    Mr.j

    The fact is their manager has done well…..yes. Nobody is arguing or contesting that, it’s why everyone would like change at ours.

    But you can’t deny how well equipped he’s been? Chelsea spent 119 mil last summer and that doesn’t rank close to their top summer.

    We spent 90 and it blows our others out the water. You’re simply ignoring the factual state of financials if you deny this. Surely I shouldn’t have to mention that you can’t look at a squad of players and judge clubs summer to summer? They spent like 600 mil the last few years, we’ve spent a third of that at best.

    People talking like them spending 119 to our 90 this time round is basically the same.. it ain’t.

  59. Mr.J

    “Michy Batshuayi – £32,300,000
    N’Golo Kanté – £30,000,000
    Marcos Alonso – £23,000,000
    David Luiz – £34,000,000Total: £119,300,000″

    OK. Granted they have spent more than I initially though, but this only backs up my point.

    We have spent 30m less and that 30m has produced a difference of 21 points in the table. Is that what you believe?

    I wonder how much Spurs have spent…
    Victor Wanyama £11,000,000
    Vincent Janssen £17,000,000
    Moussa Sissoko £30,000,000
    Georges-Kévin N’Koudo £10,800,000
    Total: £68,800,000

    Spurs have spent less then us (with only wanyama being a regular starter) yet the points are 11 points difference.

    Explain…

  60. Champagne charlie

    This Kroenke/Wenger thing is dumb, you can criticise both without shifting blame to one or another.

    Fact is we try and win the league taking NO RISKS financially, and that is ONE portion of critique. It just not a sensible notion, its romantic and we should be operating above that.

    Wengers faults have been documented on here daily. But some people need to be big enough to involve others when dishing out responsibility. Our owner does not provide the best platform for winning and competing, simple as. There’s ways and means to operate as discussed, but the fact is he doesn’t spend money beyond a certain threshold.

  61. Mr.J

    Sorry CC

    but the original point was:

    “Money wins trophies, until we have an owner that will put his hands in his pockets we will continue to struggle on the fringes.”

    My point is that this is simply not the case!!

  62. Barking Arsene

    League champions

    2012 – 2013: Man United
    2013 – 2014: Man City
    2014 – 2015: Chelsea
    2015 – 2016: Leicester City
    2016 – 2017: Chelsea

    Net spend over those 5 seasons (total in left column avg on right)

    1 Manchester City €501m €100m
    2 Manchester United €483.7m €96.7m
    3 Arsenal €247.8m €49.5m
    4 Liverpool €173.8m €34.7m
    5 Chelsea €163m €32.5m
    6 Tottenham €16m €3.2m

    Cost “per title”

    City
    £501m

    United
    £483.7m

    Chelsea
    £81.5m

    I understand the Chelsea “issue” but that isn’t really a strong enough argument for me, as they are still balancing the books when turning players over now, and are working within the same squad sizes as everyone else.

    Also, they aren’t the only club in that list.

    When you look at what Tottenham are achieving relative to their spend (and are beginning to look consistent with it as well) there isn’t much room for an argument that you can’t win things (or compete).

    Liverpool may well finish higher than us this year, and if we don’t win the F.A Cup will have the same trophy haul too.

    Money does matter, but only if spent well. Good coaching, scouting and player development can (and do) make up for a lack of money.

    That’s my take on it.

    Numbers taken from this site
    http://www.totalsportek.com/money/premier-league-clubs-transfers-net-spend-last-5-years/

    Final thing – don’t know what SAF net spend was at United, but I’m sure it wasn’t as high as Chelsea when he was winning all those titles.

  63. Champagne charlie

    “Spurs have spent less then us (with only wanyama being a regular starter) yet the points are 11 points difference.”

    Oh come on mate, 21 years we’ve outspent them and 20 out of 21 we’ve finished above them. Stop using rare circumstance as reason, its football….there’s a level of unpredictability.

    Looking over a longer sample shows the trend, as I’ve mentioned. Same with Chelsea who spent a gazillion before this summer.

  64. Bamford10

    Jim

    “Struggle on the fringes” clearly means “not win the league”.

    Also, we are not Leicester City. Our spend is close to the biggest spenders, not to a Leicester.

    And if you had read my posts more carefully, you’d see that I never denied that spending correlates with winning.

    Of course it does.

    But Arsenal have ample means to contend for titles. Regularly. With a proper manager and DOF, we wouldn’t be “struggling on the fringes”; we’d be contending regularly and winning every four years or so.

  65. Ishola70

    Some of you want to start running before you can walk.

    All this talk of winning big trophies.

    How about first thinking about making a serious title challenge let alone winning it.

    It’s so basic and one-eyed to just wanting to blame an owner.

    I will tell you now that if Wenger worked on this back three system through the summer and made it a constant formation the team would pick up more points then recent previous seasons. He could even sign players with that formation in mind,

    But I don’t trust him to do that at all. In his latest presser he looked uncomfortable when questioned about the back three. Then he reverted to usual blather bullshit and banged on about Arsenal’s football philosophy which he said is attacking football.

    And make no mistake Wenger is a huge hindrance to this team going forward because of his own individual football ideals. Not just this attack over defence philosophy he has but also his ultra-consevative handling of his squads in the sense that he never moves any players on to try to improve the group.

    Juventus were talked about yesterday. How they wheel and deal and have plenty of player movement to and from the club with the aim to improve. Arsenal are stuck with a paternal grandpa who thinks it abhorrent to move players on unless their contracts run down and even then he renews these players contracts more times than not. It’s like a fvcking conservative social club for the boys the way Wenger runs things. And this is why the club has stood still for years and eventually over-taken as we have seen this season.

  66. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J

    “Spurs have spent less then us (with only wanyama being a regular starter) yet the points are 11 points difference.”

    And what have they won? We all know Spurs have done amazing this year, I have spoken at length about it myself. But What happens when Chelsea come for Kane? Or City of Ali? Just look at Monaco, another team that has done exceptionally well this year, do you think they will keep their squad together in the summer? Why not?

    Mr. J, you seem to think that I don’t believe that a new manager would get more out of the players we have and make the team competitive as it stands, well I do… I am merely looking at the teams we need to compete with to once again be a top tier team. We’re going to need more than just good structure to once again be regarded as an elite team.

  67. GoonerDNA

    CC, my whole argument was we spend less because we sell less and YES that’s Wenger persisting with average players who can’t be easily sold because we’re created a bullshit wage structure WHICH the current owner inherited.

    If we was a selling club and didn’t reinvest I would entertain your argument.

  68. Mr.J

    There is simply no evidence that the owner has tightened the purse strings. SIMPLES.

    Ask yourself this: Can you with any sincerity of heart say that you’d would give Wenger 200m to spend and feel that you’ll end up with value for money?

    Not even Pochettino has delivered value for money… and look where he sits at present. How is that?

    Lets just all agree that until the answer to the above question is “yes”, then the manager is completely and utterly at fault.

  69. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “But Arsenal have ample means to contend for titles. Regularly. ”

    That word regularly is were we disagree. I believe with a good manager and back room staff in place we can push on and even compete, but I don’t think it is enough to challenge the might of City, United and Chelsea. Thats it, that one word is what we disagree on.

  70. PhD07

    Can’t we get this Bamford banned for a few days/weeks.??!.

    He’s coming across as a first class douchebag..I’m getting sick and tired of him.

    He clogs up the comments with the same repetitive arguments,that get recycled on a daily basis for nigh on some years now.

    Sometimes,it’s refreshing to read other poster’s viewpoints,without this twat barging in- discrediting and name calling anyway that doesn’t agree with his school of thought.

    I’m starting to think,this Bamford guy isn’t well.He always reverts to type after a while-that of a Class A douchebag.

    If you are such a doyen of football,and everywhere else is a dipshit,or knows nothing-then explain the following:-

    Why are you on here everyday-regurgitating the same arguments?
    Why not be a media panelist,or a sports journalist?Then we could read/hear your thoughts and opinions on football.

    Secondly-if what you say about Arsenal and the machinations with Arsene is factual according to you.Then care to tell us the following:-

    What is going to happen in the next few weeks/next few months at Arsenal?

    Will he sign a new contract?

    Who will he buy?

    Who will be sold?

    Who will manage us?

    How much money will he have to spend?

    Where will we finish next season?

    If Mr Doyen of football you don’t have the answers to the above questions,then it’s highly advisable to shut your trap,and stop telling other posters that they are dumb for daring to have a different opinion to yours,or don’t know anything.as neither do you.

    Cheers

  71. Mr.J

    “Mr. J, you seem to think that I don’t believe that a new manager would get more out of the players we have and make the team competitive as it stands, well I do… I am merely looking at the teams we need to compete with to once again be a top tier team.”

    Where have I said that or even implied it??? Show me!! CC only an utter berk cannot see this, no matter how much they love AW. I don’t believe you to be an utter berk!

    “We’re going to need more than just good structure to once again be regarded as an elite team.”

    Once again we are in agreement!!

    We are in need of complete overhaul. But Jim’s initial comment suggests (however so slightly that may be) that the Owner is at fault for not spending enough money… when the only fault that can be squarely laid at his feet is that he hasn’t sack Wenger.

  72. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J …

    “There is simply no evidence that the owner has tightened the purse strings. SIMPLES.”

    No there isn’t none of us are saying that, we spend the money the club makes, and that money is not enough to compete financially year after year against United, City and Chelsea.

    “Ask yourself this: Can you with any sincerity of heart say that you’d would give Wenger 200m to spend and feel that you’ll end up with value for money?”

    No of course not, but for the moment, this isn’t a Wenger issue. We’re talking about the amount of money available as a club in which we have to compete with the others in England and across Europe.

    I am saying, at the moment, we have enough to challenge every now and then, we need outside investment to get among the elite again.

    And of course we need a new manager, no one on this blog thinks otherwise.

  73. Bamford10

    Phd

    I’m no more dogmatic than anyone else here. And I didn’t call Jim dumb. I said his argument was dumb. Thanks for your input, though.

  74. Jim Lahey

    @Mr. J –

    ” But Jim’s initial comment suggests (however so slightly that may be) that the Owner is at fault for not spending enough money…”

    Its not that the owner doesn’t spend enough money, its that the owner doesn’t spend any money. Its the clubs money that is being spent.

  75. Jim Lahey

    @GoonerDNA –

    “The wage structure is a much bigger issue in securing world class talent.”

    I agree that our wage structure is ridiculous, we are crippling ourselves in so many ways by handing out big contracts to mediocre players.

  76. Mr.J

    “That word regularly is were we disagree. I believe with a good manager and back room staff in place we can push on and even compete, but I don’t think it is enough to challenge the might of City, United and Chelsea…”

    That’s an argument I would love us to be in a position to have. But fact remains that we are not. But that’s not the owner’s fault.

  77. GoonerDNA

    Some of you just don’t get it….we can compete with anyone regarding transfer fees it’s the wages we can’t offer.

  78. Ishola70

    lol talking about the impossibility of challenging.

    Some of you talk about these clubs as if they are super elite football playing sides at this time. They are not. Chelsea have to prove yet that they are a top european side on the european stage, Spurs ditto, they just look a tidy outfit atm that’s all, Liverpool also have plenty yet to prove under Klopp, Man United are still a disappointment, Man City still in transition.

    And yet some of you talk about these clubs as if they are on another plain. They are not. They can improve. But so could Arsenal but there is not the will to change within the club.

  79. Bamford10

    Jim

    If we’re top four in spending every season, why couldn’t we contend every other year (i.e., regularly) and win every 4-5 years?

    And how is a better manager coming in and doing better than Wenger — something you say you believe is possible — equivalent to “struggling on the fringes”?

    I’d say it would be contending regularly and winning every 4-5 years, making CL quarters, playing great football — not “struggling on the fringes”.

    Maybe, though, some of this is semantics.

  80. Mr.J

    “Its not that the owner doesn’t spend enough money, its that the owner doesn’t spend any money. Its the clubs money that is being spent.”

    OK, how much money does the Owner need to spend for AW to deliver a title?

    Seriously question, tell me.

    You and I both know that wenger would need a stellar line up to deliver a title. And therein lies the problem

  81. Bamford10

    DNA

    Our wage bill is sizable. And I f we ditched the socialist wage scale, we’d be better positioned to offer even higher wages to the best players. No, we cannot equal City, Chelsea or United, but we don’t need to. We simply need to be smarter than them.

  82. Carts

    Wallace

    Understood.

    Although your net spend argument between 2005-2013 is moot.

    other club spending billions doesn’t excuse Wenger poor purchases.

    The reason we weren’t nowhere near those challenging was necessarily cos of what other teams were spending, it was due to Wenger selling Cesc and Nasri in the same summer and replacing them with dog shit players.

  83. Jim Lahey

    @GoonerDNA –

    “Some of you just don’t get it….we can compete with anyone regarding transfer fees it’s the wages we can’t offer.”

    We can compete with anyone for a transfer once.. not 2 or 3 times a season, maybe not even once every season that is the problem. We could easily offer £90m for a single player, but thats it. We can’t then go out in the same window and drop £45m on another player. United, City and Chelsea can and they can do than every season.

  84. Rhys Jaggar

    Arguing about gross spend is a bit silly chaps. Argue on net spend and you have a case. The conclusions on gross spend and net spend may be identical, but the net spend srgument is crucial.

    How much did Chelsea reap in sales to counter the £122m they spent on acquisitions?

    Spurs arguably had the January of the century when they sold Kyle Naughton for £5m and bought Dele for the same price two and a half years ago. They were using a VC model of buy cheap sell high until last summer when they had a punt on Sissoko. They now have a summer where they must decide whether to reward or sell the players who actually did deliver.

    Wenger used the same model for 15 years after arriving. He rewards potential, not performance, a grave error in too many cases.

    Ever since Abramovitch arrived, he splashed big. Ok, even he has moved toward sustainability, but he spent £1bn converting Chelsea from CL qualifiers to multiple EPL title winners and UCL winners in 2012. Arsenal are a decade behind in even trying to go down that route.

    One of the lessons of this season is Conte always using all his subs. Even with European football, he was managing freshness of his players. Yes, he starts the same team, but more players only play sixty to eighty minutes. That is much less strain and easier to recover from. Easier to do that if you are bringing on the likes of Fabregas, Willian etc.

  85. Barking Arsene

    For those touching on wages, that is our biggest issue.

    When I say smart spending I mean transfers obviously but more so wages.

    Even with our new signing he is reportedly on £120k per week.

    Now I appreciate he is a free but city could have outbid us but didn’t? It concerns me that he may end up being someone who is just a squad player on very high wages.

    Clubs aren’t allowed to increase thier wage bill at will any more, and with this wage structure we are not allowing ourselves to pay out big money to one player, even if we wanted to.

    If we aren’t careful sponsorship etc could slip and make life very difficult for us longer term.

  86. Ishola70

    Arsenal could win a title in the next five year period but can’t win it the way Wenger wants to win it and the way half his brain-washed followers want to win it.

  87. Mr.J

    “No, we cannot equal City, Chelsea or United, but we don’t need to. We simply need to be smarter than them.”

    And we’re not even being slightly sensible with the little that we do have.

    Just look at the diabolical contracts we’ve handed out over the years. How can we even consider give Santi and another contract? Look at theo. and wiltshire

  88. Bamford10

    Jim

    But dropping 90m on a player is not essential to building a great team. This is a canard. How is Pogba working out?

    Yes, you need to be in a position to make smart 30-40m signings, but we have that capacity.

    Mr. J

    Jim doesn’t believe in Wenger. He just thinks that no matter who manages Arsenal, he’ll struggle as long as the owner doesn’t spend his own money, as long as others outspend us.

    I disagree, though I agree that bigger spending is an advantage.

  89. GoonerDNA

    Bamford, it’s sizable because it wasn’t really needed Wenger created it to create harmony between the players which created complacency if anything.

    Jim, Yea I agree but the fact is we can’t even secure a player for 100 mil because we wouldn’t be able to match wages. We were lucky with Alexis because it was only Liverpool competing for him.

  90. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “If we’re top four in spending every season, why couldn’t we contend every other year (i.e., regularly) and win every 4-5 years?”

    So lets do this on a spending only platform we’ll leave out outside influence (i.e manager and such) for now.

    The idea is that we are in the top 4 spending every year (more like top 5 as Liverpool outspend us quite a bit) and that this should relate to us have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the league, a league title every 4 years due to our spend. But that isn’t the case as United and Chelsea have spent twice as much as us in the lsat 5 years, so they would be twice as likely to win it, and City have outspent us by about a factor of 3 so (on spending) they would be 3 times as likely to win it than we are. So lets just say we now have a (mostly arbitrary) 1 in 7 chance of winning the league, or once every 7 years. To me even that is on the fringes for a club like Arsenal.

  91. Wallace

    re transfer fee & wages – clubs divide the fee paid by the length of the contract then add the yearly salary to that sum. the resulting figure is the one they pay most attention to.

  92. Jim Lahey

    @Rhys –

    “Arguing about gross spend is a bit silly chaps. Argue on net spend and you have a case. The conclusions on gross spend and net spend may be identical, but the net spend srgument is crucial.”

    Just wondering if Gross would not be a better indicator to the amount of money spent on talent going into a team? Chelsea, United and City have not been in the habit of selling their best players, so would net give a clear indication to the quality going into a team?

  93. shaun

    madness …who do you think was pivotal in getting Kronke in and more importantly why ? seriously those of you blaming kronke will probably be at the game tonight going “i thought less people would turn up too support the boycott” kronke was bought in to prolong the power of one man under any circumstances as we are seeing now …Wenger is no fool he may well be a cunt …but a fool no . Ofcourse Kronke will buy into Wengers version of Arsenal what fool would not .wenger can basically talk absolute bollocks to fans , tell them outright they are stupid dumb mofo’s who will keep paying no matter what .I don’t actually have to change a thing because these fools will keep paying .I f you can’t see how massively things would have to change if you remove the head of the snake then you are truly dumb

  94. Bamford10

    Jim

    Even if we only win one title in every six seasons, as long as we are contending regularly, playing good football and reaching CL quarters, I wouldn’t call that “struggling on the fringes”.

    We’re in a competitive league. So be it.

    But our biggest problem at moment is not how much we are spending — we are spending a great deal, actually — our problem is our manager.

  95. Jim Lahey

    @GoonerDNA –

    “Jim, Yea I agree but the fact is we can’t even secure a player for 100 mil because we wouldn’t be able to match wages. We were lucky with Alexis because it was only Liverpool competing for him.”

    Yeah that is true its not like even if we did splash out on that £90m player that he would be willing to sit on the £140,000 a week that seems to be our limit at the moment.

  96. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    Would we be happy with a title every 6 years? Would any top manager be happy to stay at Arsenal if that was the case? Would top players?

    “we are spending a great deal, actually”

    We’re spending a great deal relative to what we use to spend, but not compared to the teams we need to compete with.

    “our problem is our manager.”

    He is our top problem, not our only problem.

  97. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “But dropping 90m on a player is not essential to building a great team.”

    No it isn’t but it would be nice to have the ability to do so.

    “How is Pogba working out?”

    How is Gonzalo Higuaín working out?

  98. Bamford10

    Jim

    Actually, we’re spending a great deal even relative to our competition. We spend 200m+ on wages. We spent 100m on transfers. These are not tiny sums.

    And Spurs’ wages, btw, are half of ours and they’re 8 points above us.

    And yes, I’d be happy winning only once in every 5-6 years, provided we were being managed properly, playing good football and contending regularly.

  99. Wallace

    Jim

    “The idea is that we are in the top 4 spending every year (more like top 5 as Liverpool outspend us quite a bit) and that this should relate to us have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the league, a league title every 4 years due to our spend. ”

    not sure that’s how it works. if you’re the 4th biggest team and you haven’t won the league in 2yrs it doesn’t mean next time round you’re going to have a better chance. your chance is the same as it was the previous two seasons, other factors remaining the same.

  100. Champagne charlie

    On the subject of spending and having an owner that backs the team, why have we missed out on so many targets?

    I know the usual response is “Wenger dithering” or “refusing to pay”. But that’s conjecture, and not very appealing given the source of those saying it.

    Far more likely a scenario is Arsenal not being willing to go to a certain figure because of the money un/available. Talking Dybala, Higuain, Griezmann etc etc.

    Yea you’ll get the Gazidis sound bites saying we back the manager totally etc, but at what point is the manager then question when the same pattern emerges of us entering for a player and not getting him for a few million?

    The skeptic in me thinks in situations like Higuain from Madrid we proposed the 23mil transfer to the board, got the green light. Then when Napoli came in and the new tag was 30 it was rejected by the board as excessive. Because no matter what justification someone tries to concoct, the idea a top tier manager would happily miss out on players he clearly wants for money we supposedly have, is nonsense – irrrrspective of the distaste towards the guy.

  101. Marc Polo

    Pedro

    Surprised you didn’t mention Peps comment about being sacked at his previous clubs if he didn’t win a trophy. This was squarely aimed at Wenger who has never managed at that level and won trophies and as we know would never have left the ‘paradise’ that is Arsenal to test himself in those two pressure cookers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39926264

  102. Ishola70

    Bamford10:
    “Even if we only win one title in every six seasons, as long as we are contending regularly, playing good football and reaching CL quarters, I wouldn’t call that “struggling on the fringes”.”

    “Playing good football”

    What is good football to you? Attacking flair football? Or just winning football?

    Are you like the man you loathe in wanting to win in a certain way?

    Forget about winning big trophies wanting to win with pretty attacking football as far as Arsenal are concerned.

    Arsenal can only win the big trophies in the foreseeable future with a change of football philosophy and outlook at the club. The whole club. Fans as well.

    That starts with getting rid of the idealist Wenger.

  103. Wallace

    Jim

    “Just wondering if Gross would not be a better indicator to the amount of money spent on talent going into a team? Chelsea, United and City have not been in the habit of selling their best players, so would net give a clear indication to the quality going into a team?”

    agreed.

  104. Bamford10

    Jim

    How much did Higuain cost, again?

    After that, tell me: how much did Khedira cost? Alves? Evra? Dybala?

    And note that we spent 43m on Ozil, 23m on Podolski + Giroud, 32m on Alexis, 30m on Mustafi , 30m on Xhaka.

  105. Jim Lahey

    @Wallace –

    I was suggestion that at the start of every season you’d have a 1 in 4 chance, I am aware if factors remained the same it would remain the same for every season. It was a simplistic approach to a problem.

  106. Ishola70

    How many times does it have to be said.

    To sign significant first team players you have to get rid of some first.

    Wenger hardly sells on players and so he is not in a position many times to take advantage of a certain players availability say like a club like Juventus would do who are like a continuous running conveyor belt in comparison to Arsenal in player recruitment and departures.

  107. Bamford10

    Ishola

    Good football can mean a number of things, but I’d say it means it’s enjoyable to watch. I like watching Atletico and Juventus and Monaco, so please don’t counter that this means one particular style of play. Yes, one wants to win, but one also wants to watch good football. At least I do.

  108. Bamford10

    Jim

    Is Higuain the only top striker on the planet? How much did Dortmund sign Lewandowski for? Atletico Griezmann? Dortmund Aubameyang? City Gabriel Jesus?

    One could go on and on.

    The notion that one must sign 90m players is ridiculous.

  109. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “The notion that one must sign 90m players is ridiculous.”

    Once again I never suggested we should be signing £90m players… I said it would be nice if we had the ability to do so..

  110. Ishola70

    Bamford10:
    “Good football can mean a number of things, but I’d say it means it’s enjoyable to watch. I like watching Atletico and Juventus and Monaco, so please don’t counter that this means one particular style of play. Yes, one wants to win, but one also wants to watch good football. At least I do.”

    What do you enjoy about Atletico Madrid’s football then? What aspects?

    I see the clubs you listed can all be seen as punching above their weight if not right now in previous recent seasons. Maybe not so much Juve but they do well in Champions League for their overall squad profile.

    Are you sure you are not enjoying the idea of these teams doing well without being seen as elite rather than what football they actually play?

    Juve and Atletico are pragmatic teams so that is a good sign going forward. Monaco are not pragmatic though.

  111. Wallace

    Champagne charlie

    “Because no matter what justification someone tries to concoct, the idea a top tier manager would happily miss out on players he clearly wants for money we supposedly have, is nonsense”

    yup. as is the idea a top manager would happily sell his best players.

  112. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    You talk a lot about clubs like Juventus, Dortmund and Atletico, all clubs I like to watch play football all club I admire.

    Juventus, I honestly don’t know this, but are they regularly out spent in Serie A? The very well may be, who are the big spenders in that league?

    Dortmund and Atletico – Once again great club, do they spend more than the teams the regularly finish above and less than teams that regularly finish above them?

  113. Wallace

    rumours BVB are looking to replace Tuchel. while Jardim’s the man of the moment I’d still be up for the German.

  114. Ishola70

    Wenger misses out on so many players because he sits too much on his existing squads.

    There. Been said again.

    If he can’t move players on because of the wages they are on then it his fault in the first place for putting them on such big wages in the first place.

  115. Ishola70

    Wallace:
    “rumours BVB are looking to replace Tuchel. while Jardim’s the man of the moment I’d still be up for the German.”

    Nein ! Nein! Nein!

    I’ve had enough of nutty professor types.

  116. Barking Arsene

    Higuain wasn’t 90m when he went to Napoli though.

    I honestly don’t know for sure why we don’t get players but Wenger has said he won’t overpay. Comments like today won’t help his case as its all we have to go on.

    I really do think it’s Wenger, maybe the board were upset by the Higuain price jump but he isn’t the only player we have missed out on.

    We will only get our answers once Wenger is gone I fear.

  117. Paulinho

    The problem with Arsenal under Wenger in the last decade is lack of positive variance. Leicester last year were an example of extreme positive variance, and this year has seen mean reversion back to where they should be.

    Wenger should have had at least one season – like Liverpool three years ago, Spurs last two – where he challenged right until the end. If we did fall off the next season then natural balance of where we are as a club in terms of spending would’ve been achieved.

    This obviously means Wenger’s managerial methods – and the impact of them both positively and negatively – are of far more significance than money. Wenger would recoil at the thought of doing what Chelsea have done in the last decade or so – despite the fact it’s proved to be successful and his stability rhetoric has been proven to be a fallacious load of tripe

  118. Bamford10

    Jim

    Except that you do seem to be suggesting that winning today requires the buying of 90m players.

    To which I am saying, no, it doesn’t. One does need to sign 30-40m players, and one does need to sign undervalued or promising talents at an early stage, yes, but one does not need to spend 90m on a player.

    And as someone pointed out above, we could have signed Higuain from Madrid for around £35million.

    The key is to sign quality players before they’re 90m — or who don’t cost 90m — not compete with United for 90m players.

  119. Wallace

    if you treat Leicester last season as an anomaly, Poch’s the first manager to outperform Wenger on a consistent basis while utilising less resources. as far as I can recall anyway…

  120. Jim Lahey

    @Bamford –

    “Except that you do seem to be suggesting that winning today requires the buying of 90m players.”

    Oh does it? What exactly did I say that would suggest that?

  121. Bamford10

    Champagne

    “Because no matter what justification someone tries to concoct, the idea that a top tier manager would happily miss out on players he clearly wants for money we supposedly have, is nonsense.”

    Wallace

    “Yup. As is the idea that a top manager would happily sell his best players.”

    Two longtime Arsenal supporters who have apparently never listened carefully to their own manager, Arsene Wenger.

    Jesus Christ.

  122. Ishola70

    Paulinho:
    “This obviously means Wenger’s managerial methods – and the impact of them both positively and negatively – are of far more significance than money. Wenger would recoil at the thought of doing what Chelsea have done in the last decade or so – despite the fact it’s proved to be successful and his stability rhetoric has been proven to be a fallacious load of tripe”

    This is exactly it. His stability mode has done fvck all apart from bringing in Champions League money.