Wenger publicly admits Ivan G is meddling | The reality of mega wages and morale

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Welcome to the Sunday edition, on the eve of a super exciting trip to Boro.’

So what do we have on today? Well, it looks like the Ivan G power play is starting to slip into the mainstream, and I’m enjoying it even if it does mean Wenger will still stay on beyond his tenure.

Sir Wenger lashed out when asked about structure changes.

‘No. It’s always difficult. We spend a lot of time to focus on things that are superficial – but don’t take care of the essential.’

‘The essential in football is good players on the football pitch, that’s what we have to take care of’

That’s quite an incredible response to a totally fair suggestion. What is essential in football is good players, no doubt about it, that’s absolutely essential. That’s what a sporting director does, that’s what Arsene has been doing very badly over the last few season. So the SD can take care of the essentials. I’m pretty sure a good SD would have favoured Kante over Xhaka, and explained the difference between the two. I’m pretty sure a good SD would have looked at Idrissa Gueye as a second option if a destroyer was on the agenda.

Anyway, point is, an SD would only be superficial at Arsenal because Arsene would try and ignore him. However, if you do bring in a name, give him authority over transfers, allow them to rebuild the coaching staff (firing 5 underperformers in the process) which doubles up as a refresh for more modern thinking, as well as an attack on the power structure. Thierry pointed out something I’ve been hammering home on the podcast… players have no reason to come to Arsenal at the moment, because as a base requirement, players want to improve. Wenger is doing the opposite now and it’s impacting the players who want to join us. We’re going from M’Bappe, to Jordan Pickford. Names that just want more money.

An SD can bring in names that are higher quality – and here’s the thing – part of a larger vision of the sort of football the club want to play.  Wenger doesn’t sign players as part of a bigger strategic vision. He just buys the names he likes. He doesn’t buy a player who will in 2 years replace Santi. He doesn’t think about the sort of experience he needs now. He doesn’t bank on older players giving him less games. He doesn’t think about leaders. He doesn’t think about the physicality he needs to succeed. An SD can take care of that, whilst also acting as a filter for bringing in the best technologies, the most innovative staff, and overall just making the managers job about game day.

There was talk of Marc Overmars the other day, and I initially brushed it off as boring. I had in my head he’d be part of the system and come in as a paid yes man. Well, upon further research (I mean, one article), it appears that he, along with Edwin VDS, has played a huge role in transforming Ajax into a club that might make the semi finals of the Europa League this season. Marc Overmars playing a pivotal role as the man pulling the strings with the players. Robert Pires feels like a disaster waiting to happen, because he has nothing to fall back on to fight Wenger. At least Marc Overmars has experience. I’d still prefer that a club of our stature go for the best, but if you believe in layering the Marble Halls with football knowledge and heritage, then he’d be a very interesting option.

Anyway, back to the chipping away at Wenger… that story is obviously irking him. But the snippet about wages is also telling. This is Wenger on Sanchez:

“You have many different opinions. Some people tell me: ‘Just give him what he wants.’ But then you cannot respect anymore any wage structure and you put the club in trouble as well. You have to make the decision in an objective way. The club always has to be the priority. I understand top players are a big priority but, even for important players, you can only pay as much as you can afford.”

Read into the above as this: ‘If it’s more money than me, then it’s not happening.’ What really rankles me about this sort of chat is Wenger is all about the wage structure until it involves his greedy pay packet. Literally, the man pleading poverty through the stadium move, only to reveal he didn’t need a bonus because he was pocketing 10% of the total wage budget as a top 3 in the world manager. Market rate only works for him… because he asks 100% above it and lands it.

I digress, later transcripts had him down as saying this on talk of a potential £300k a week contract for Alexis.

‘First of all I cannot confirm that we have offered that. Secondly we will do as we always do, we will consider our financial potential to sustain the wages for the whole squad.’

Now, we can all read into this because it’s a narrative we like, but it’s great that Wenger doesn’t know what’s going on with the wages. Firstly, because that’s none of his fucking business. Secondly, here’s the thing, if Ivan has done a bit of a research and spoken to people who work with players who earn big wages, he’ll learn this:

It doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter. The best players want to come into work every day with the best talent in the world. It makes them better, it gives them more opportunity to win things and it’s a massive boost to them because it says something about where you’re plying your trade.

Wenger just makes up this destabilisation comment. Sure, some might grumble, but who at Arsenal would have the temerity to ask for more? It’s already on record that we pay the average players too much. If Theo comes in and demands £300k a week, tell him to leave immediately, and find the club will to offer it. Won’t happen.

This is a prime example of Wenger making you believe something because it suits him. If disproportionate wages were a problem, then how come the biggest clubs in the world with the biggest wage disparities always seem to win things? I tell you what’s been a bigger issue over the years, a socialist wage structure that hasn’t allowed us to keep the best players. While Fergie was keeping squad players like John O’Shea going on £20k a week, for the honor of being average at a club winning things, we were dropping £52k a week on Nik B and $65k a week on Diaby. Tell me that’s good for morale as Cesc walks out the door?

The biggest drain on any elite organsiation is propping up average. That’s something Wenger has done for years. That’s why we are where we are.

If Ivan is taking things into his own hands, good for him. Let’s hope some of the other decisions that are happening are down to him as well.

I’ll talk more on that tomorrow. See you in the comments, listen to the damn podcast.

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255 Responses to “Wenger publicly admits Ivan G is meddling | The reality of mega wages and morale”

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  1. London gunner

    Is Pedro paid off by gazidis?

    Either that or Ivan’s struck some deal with him.

    Pedro almost akb non rationale non thought out like defence and constant spew of pro ivan proganda bullshit, seems dodgy..

    Ivan knows best pedro?

  2. Bamford10

    “I will spend my money responsibly. Why should I spend 10m on a player who’s worth 5m?”
    – Arsene Wenger, January 2010

    “Some people tell me, ‘just give [Alexis] what he wants.’ But then you cannot respect the wage structure and you put the club in trouble as well.”
    – Arsene Wenger, Friday

  3. Pedro

    London, I just have better information than most of the fanbase. You think I’d roll with this narrative out of hope?

    Please. Ivan is on our side.

  4. izzo

    Sorry but Ivan having more power makes no difference to the playing staff if Wenger is still there. Wenger isnt going to change his ingame and pregame preparations so we’ll still be struggling. Wenger needs to go. NO NEW CONTRACT. Its that simple. Come end of season tell him he’s not being offered a new contract and the club thanks him for his servitude all these years and that they’re moving in a new direction. He can’t do shit about that now can he? Jesus fucking Christ!!! All this DOF talk with Wenger still here is rubbish and doesnt stop the rot or change our fortunes. That would be a defeatist decision if that happens. FUCK THAT NOISE!!!

  5. Bamford10

    Pedro

    Good post. Wenger’s comments on Alexis and the “wage structure” are just another example of how he is an ideologue: he decided along time ago — early 2000s — that disparity in wages in a team produces disunity, he wrote this into the architecture of the finances at Arsenal, and he’s sticking with it regardless of evidence to the contrary or new circumstances.

    An inflexible old ideologue, one who hasn’t had a new idea since 1997 or thereabouts.

  6. Globalgunner

    the new Sd, whomever he is has to have authority right from the top. He may not be the one to choose whom to buy but he must be someone who can identify the deficiencies in the team. Select options for he and the manager to decide on. Rank potential targets in priority and then He alone goes out to get them. Overmars could do this if he is given the authority and backed up by Kroenke and Gazidis.
    Pires is a no no. totally subservient to Wenger that one is. Either way i just cant see Wenger accepting this. I hope he walks. He has to anyways, He is an anchor on our immediate prospects as a club.

  7. alexanderhenry

    Pedro

    I wish I shared your optimism over Gazidis’ ability to create change at arsenal.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think he has that power.

  8. Pedro

    Bamford, you’re fighting a bad strawman argument there. Who cares who sets the budgets… fact is, Wenger is a top 3 net spender over 5 years, with a £200m wage bill, and we’re 7th.

    I wrote the whole time that Wenger hid his bad management skills behind money all those years ago…. as soon as the money started rolling in to other clubs, he’s been exposed. Europe has had him sussed for 7 years.

  9. Pedro

    Alex, it looks like that’s about to change… a few more horrible spankings through the death spiral and he’ll have all the leverage to force Wenger into accepting new terms. Wenger will literally throw anyone under the bus to land that new contract.

  10. SuperSwede

    There’s a dog barried (Swedish saying) at the club and I for one would like to read the book about all the behind the scene drama when the dust finally settles. John Cross – there’s a journalistic challenge for you to restore some of your credibility!

  11. Pedro

    SuperSwede, doubt he’s writing the book. But yes, the real story of Arsene is going to be fucking amazing. All the yes men will come out of the woodwork… and when you hear how it operates, it’ll make you want to cry.

  12. Marc

    What needs doing at Arsenal isn’t rocket science. Why would Gazidis want to make the club successful? It would make his life easier in getting better commercial deals, the club would make more money making it easier to account to the board etc. It might even lead to the opportunity for Gazidis to move to one of the “giant” clubs.

    Whilst I don’t like using the Glazer’s as an example look at what they’ve done in response to slipping down the league – went out and made a statement in the transfer market. They didn’t do it to please the fans but to appease the commercial partners.

  13. Malaysian gunner

    Wenger is a dictator and shd go asap.He has surrounded himself with yes men and I don’t blame these guys.
    If Arsenal lose to Boro,he shd be axed without any more delay.

  14. MrT

    Excellent post as usual. So glad I found this community 8/9 years ago. It’s the anchor that has helped me make sense of the senselessnes going on at Arsenal. Between its my birthday today so DM that’s why I let you have the top four trophy (tongue in cheek) :))

  15. Bamford10

    Pedro

    I have been saying for a long time that I cannot wait for all of the tell-all accounts to come out post-Wenger. His insanity and inanity will be both clear and staggering.

    The best thing is that, far from denying any of the inane things he has said and done over the past ten years, Wenger will CHAMPION these things in his tell-all account. He is so stubborn and arrogant that he will not only not hide from the fact that he was responsible for these things, he’ll argue that he was right — obvious and perennial failure be damned.

    Madness.

  16. Dissenter

    Pedro
    If Gazidis is this top shot visionary CEO that you’ve cast his as,why doesnt he just walk away?
    You know he won’t leave because no one walks away from a £2.6 million p.a. job.
    You’ve used this excuse for Gazidis several times.
    Why won’t you afford Wenget the same abject excuse. He’s not going to fire himself . Someone ought to fire him but there are only two testicles in the club. Unfortunately the atrophied pair belong to Wenger.

  17. WengertheDictator

    Wenger is one of the most manipulative, power hungry people I’ve seen. The way he has wormed his way to complete control of the club would make many dictators throughout history proud. He had mastered the art of deflection, manipulation, and killing off any threats to his control of the kingdom. He has a system where no one can criticise him because he implements a multilayered strategy to beat it. He either deflects to an excuse, attacks the integrity, achievements, or football knowledge of the accuser, brings up past achievements as a way to justify current failures, or brings up completely unrelated issues for a different subject. He is the biggest hypocrite in football and a terrible person. He is an arrogant cunt who only cares about his self interests and that people see that he is bigger than arsenal. He has nothing left but the club because everyone hates him who has been close to him. He has no morals despite making himself out to be some great person and what he did to his wife is disgusting. No one likes him or is willing to question him at arsenal or they will lose there jobs and reputations. It’s why bould does nothing despite having so much to give to the club. The sooner we get rid of this disgusting piece of rubbish that some really call a manager, the sooner this club can start being successful again. The whole club is dead until we get a manager in who will implement proper defensive training and tactics and sign physical, tough players to get the balance of the team right

  18. Pedro

    Dissenter, that’s such a stupid question… and really, a childish reaction to a serious challenge. This is adult life, there aren’t many CEO jobs going in the world and there certainly aren’t any in London with the prestige of Arsenal.

    Pack it in because it’s hard? Seriously. What sort of response is that? A weak one.

  19. Do one gambon

    “I will spend my money responsibly. Why should I spend 10m on a player who’s worth 5m?”
    – Arsene Wenger, January 2010

    Maybe Wenger should take note of his own comments. Why should we pay 10m a year to a manager who’s output is the value of a fucking happy meal.

    Wenger can stay, he gets a happy meal every week. As a win bonus he can have the toy.

  20. Dissenter

    The DoF argument is meaningless so long as Wenger is still at Arsenal.
    Wenger is going to do what Wenger wants. No “big-name” DoF will come to waste their time under these conditions.
    Is this the best golden boy Gazidis can do?
    Is this the fuc*ed up idea that he labeled “catalyst for change”

    This DoF thing actually gives Wenger ample cover and is an excuse generator for him. Who can forget the Liverpool situation where no one knew who bought whom.
    Get rid of Wenger cold turkey. He’s going to sabotage any changes that don’t suit him.

  21. Stan Morris

    The point your missing is that the club is successful, but as a business model and that’s the most important thing to the owners. Yes, it would also be nice if we won a few trophies, but it’s a business first and a football club second. That why it was bought and thats how it will be run. The supporters are just customers and as long as they fill the seats and buy the tickets etc. their moaning is not being heard. The only thing that will ever make the board sit up and take notice (that somethings wrong) is when the stadium is half empty.

  22. Marc

    When the dust clears and emotions are a little less volatile and the “truth” starts to come out I think many will view it as sad how a manager who was the revolutionary when he joined became an out of touch dithery old fool who destroyed his own legacy.

  23. alexanderhenry

    Pedro

    A few more horrible spankings and I think the club will withdraw the contract offer or wenger will walk away.

    Kroenke will be aware of the loss of revenue from no CL football ,and he will also be aware of the fact that the fan base have turned against wenger.

    Angry fans lead to empty seats and un renewed season tickets, which will be a big concern for kroenke.

    His actions at the st louis rams have revealed two things:

    1) He is only concerned with making money

    2) He is not a man of his word.

    He’d drop wenger in a second if he thought it was necessary- financially speaking.

  24. Dissenter

    Pedro
    You don’t think Gazidis should “pack it in”
    Why won’t you afford Wenger the same excuse I ask again. He needs to be fired to save the club

    Wenger needs to be fired and not surrounded with some nonsensical BS structure to prolong his reign.
    Where’s the courage in this situation?
    We need wholesome change not trimming the edges.
    I see you’ve changed tack to support this “catalyst for change” mantra.

    I’ve always believed that Gazidis is your blind spot.
    Thanks for all you do.
    This is just a fundamental disagreement.

  25. Alex Cutter

    “Agreed. But Alexander continues to promote his bogus narrative, so I continue to combat it.”

    Yeah. You’re a real hero.

    The only thing more tiresome than AH and Pierre’s akblatherings are those who argue with them.

  26. Dissenter

    The sporting director will be like an intern in the club. He won’t have any gravitas in the boardroom, the same one Wenger has groomed for the past 12 years.
    Has anyone forgotten Park, a full international who didn’t get 10% of the chances Sanogo got just because it wasn’t Wenger who bought him.
    The sporting director can’t force Wenger to play a player. Agents everywhere know where the power lies at Arsenal.
    They won’t be subjecting their clients to come and be sucked into a power play situation at Arsenal.

  27. Pedro

    Alex, he’s not walking away under any circumstances.

    Dissenter, if your boss tells you that Wenger stays, and the compromise you get is you can restructure his team. You take that. It is not a win for anyone other than you if he packs it in.

    Ivan isn’t my weak spot. I just have good information and I work in a job where you don’t get all the things you want. Walking away is for weak strategists (if you’re at the best place in world of couse)

  28. Pedro

    Alex, dont’ be absurd. You’ve spent the whole season rounding on what a terrible owner he is, now you think he’ll withdraw support for a man who made him 500m?

    No chance. Wenger is here for the foreseeable, regardless of performance.

  29. Dissenter

    Pedro
    Assuming that I was the stellar CEO that you’ve depicted Gazidis to be.
    If my boss tells me that Wenger is staying. I would use the knowledge of the last 7.5 years to know nothing is going to change until he’s sacked.
    I would take my exit package and move unto another top job to save my reputation. Isn’t he supposed to be that visionary leader? He should ha e trouble finding another top job right?

    Th actual fact is that Gazidis stuck gold at Arsenal. He’s been part of the pressure free, low expectation milieu while taking in bonus after bonus for getting average done.

    He knows he won’t get anything as good as this so he’s throwing up another smoke screen to protect his job.

  30. Drey

    Pedro’s continued fanboy-ism of Ivan G is really strange to me… I for one can’t understand what he’s doing behind the scenes other than being the a political double-talk man he is..
    Found this site back in 2011 when I was convinced Wenger is done,You called it right, but on Ivan I feel you are very wrong and on the wrong side of history

  31. alexanderhenry

    Pedro

    Nothing absurd about it.

    Looking at the run in I think we will finish very badly.

    From Kroenke’s viewpoint- let’s be honest Pedro he is a terrible owner, surely you agree with me on that- there’ll be no CL football and a very angry fan base most of whom will blame wenger. If he then offers wenger a new contract that will inevitably lead to empty seats, un renewed season tickets, less revenue from merchandise etc which will in turn lead to arsenal becoming a less valuable asset.

    If he replaces wenger that will placate fans- for a while anyway.

  32. Pedro

    Dissenter, you’re going round in loops.

    He has the best job on the planet. A family in London. Biggest pay packet anywhere. The opportunity, when it lands, to be the CEO that won Arsenal their first major trophies at the emirates. There is no reason to leave, other than you presenting this as some sort of ego thing.

  33. Pedro

    Drey, it’s absurd because you don’t have leads into the club.

    Alex, he’s not an active owner, but I’d hardly say he’s a terrible owner. Top 3 net spenders, 200m wage bill, allows his manager full control of the club, never jumps in on affairs… in fact, I’d imagine when he landed you were celebrating that sort of owner in the face of someone like Roman who is the opposite.

    A bad owner is the one at Leeds, or Orient.

  34. jwl

    Going to be awesome in summer when Wenger signs his next contract, with a raise in salary, while he explains that Arsenal are selling our best player because the wage structure has to be respected. You can tell Wenger never really has to justify his methods to anyone because his arguments are weak, they are not remotely load bearing.

  35. Dissenter

    Pedro,
    “He has the best job on the planet. A family in London. Biggest pay packet anywhere. The opportunity, when it lands, to be the CEO that won Arsenal their first major trophies at the emirates. There is no reason to leave, other than you presenting this as some sort of ego thing”

    That’s precisely my point.
    You don’t think he will rank up the BS meter to protect his job. He’s worked at Arsenal for almost 9 years and knows all the crapola SD or DoF won’t work so long as Wenger is in charge.
    Gazidis knows this and is just trying to keep the gravy train going.

    You can make the same argument to defend Wenger
    You can make the same argument to defend all the failed signings: Gibbs, Jenkinson etc all.

  36. PieAFC

    I’ve been saying for years a massive can of worms will be opened for sure once Wengers grip on the club has ceased.

    There is no way the status quo can be the way it is forever.

    Ex players in the media are sacred to say what they feel, if they want any relationship with the club.

    Parlour, Keown, Henry, Wright they say what they say, but words are minced. They never actually say “Wenger needs to leave” or “he should go”

    They know, like us, you disrespect Wenger in public go against him, you’re probably not allowed around the club.

  37. jwl

    And what is with that photo of gooner’s arse? In good ol’ days, Pedro had a photo of three lovely frauleins with boobs showing in a beer garden and now we get photos of male ass.

    Pedro argument against Wenger is strong, his choice of photos is weak.

  38. Marc

    Pedro

    You’re missing one other thing on Gazidis – Wenger is 67 years old and on a downward spiral. If I was Gazidis and ambitious to move the club on I’d take a strategic view that it’s not far away now.

  39. Boomslang

    Gazidis appears to be just another passenger on Arsenals’ merry-go-round.

    Other than making hollow statements, I don’t think he’s done enough to be regarded by fans as a potential revolutionary at the club.

    Well, I guess Pedro knows more than we do, as he says.

  40. Dissenter

    Excellent weekend for Arsenal
    That’s is if you love th club and not Wenger.

    We are going to be going into tomorrow’s game under pressure. I expect that we’ll buckle again
    Middlesbrough just need to “want it more”

  41. Middy

    Everyone thinks Wenger will not listen to others but where does that myth come from?

    For people who care, Wenger joined Arsenal when Arsenal had a passionate shareholder who would invest his own money into Arsenal, that legend was David Dein.

    Dein got forced out by the old board as they thought it was stupid to invest their own money, Dein got Usmanov who Silent Stan still blocks him from being on the board.

    Wenger built a good relationship, they talked about purchases and Dein was someone who had some football knowledge, unlike the rest of our support staff now who are more admin than football.

    If I was Wenger I wouldn’t want an admin guy to come in and put profit ahead of winning to such a degree that it stops us from competing and in the end just there to make the numbers up.

    Xhaka or Kante?
    They are DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!!!
    Kante is a B2B type of player who is tough tackling while Xhaka is more of a deep lying playmaker who would excel alongside someone of Kante quality. Who does he have alongside him though… Coquelin and Ramsey… Either one of them as good as Kante in the B2B role?

    Ignorant fans who think we should have bought Kante INSTEAD of Xhaka rather than Kante AND Xhaka shouldn’t be listened to, spewing vile without understanding football.

  42. SpanishDave

    Wenger don’t allow Henry , Wenger won’t hire a DF, Wenger is an employee but he is allowed to tell the board and CEO what to do!
    Unreal

  43. Marc

    Middy

    Fuck me talk about re writing history. Dein was sacked by the “old board” because he tried to sell their shares without their permission.

    Take a look at this

    http://www.thearsenalhistory.com

    Also whilst Dein invested in Arsenal shares I’ve never heard anything about him putting money in to the club.

  44. Moray

    gazidis came from MLS. And he’s not exactly blown the lights at Arsenal.

    Let’s face it, it’s unlikely he will get such a chance at another big club and certainly not at what we’re paying him.

    For sure, we are not pulling our weight commercially. How much of this is down to Gazidis and how much to Wenger is moot, to a certain degree.

    Gazidis isn’t going anywhere. If he is choosing this time to try to manage Wenger out then so much the better. Wenger is the anchor dragging the club back and has been for a good decade now. The dynamics at Arsenal are not as they should be and the CEO powers are limited. With Wenger out at last, we will see who is swimming naked and who has on a solid gold diving suit.

  45. Dissenter

    Gazidis is just another individual striving for self-preservation same as Wenger.
    This nonsence “catalyst for change” argument is no different from project youth or operation British core . It’s just corporate slang for a BS smoke screen to help me keep my job.

  46. Berg

    I like many others don’t get Pedro’s fascination with IG. What has he actually acheived at arsenal or prior roles?

    Our commercial deals are actually quite poor and wont mention the situation we are on the pitch

  47. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    Or he sees that change is necessary and is publicly pressuring the manager to either be that change or fuck off.

    The anti-Gazidis current here is a bit silly. It’s based on nothing. Gazidis can’t be judged until Wenger is gone. That is obvious.

  48. Thanos

    Great post Pedro, I really don’t believe Wenger will leave even if we finished outside the top 10. I am booing 80 to 90 percent of the game and I sit in the tier to the left of him, there is no way he does not hear me or many of the fans that sit with me now.
    I am resigned to the fact he will be here for at least another 2 years. The best we can hope for is he get’s weakened in some sort of way.
    There would have to be riots for him to go, which won’the happen because at least half the fan Base do not care enough. The last home game i asked at least 50 people if he should go at least 20 of them said no “who would we get that’s available ? ” when I say alegri or tuchel or simione or favare etc they say who ? I can’t believe how uneducated some of the fans are.
    We will get our club back but not this year

  49. Ishola70

    lol Sanchez is not going to stay at Arsenal.

    All these stories of offering him a new mega deal is so the club can say at least we tried to keep him.

    Nothing to see here really. As for DOF every one mentioned as a possibility so far has been an ex Arsenal player previously under the management of Arsene Wenger. That should in itself tell you how useful a DOF would be with Wenger still around managing the club. Arsene Wenger wants to keep Arsenal Football Club all about Arsene Wenger still and the powers that be are still happy to go along with that and installing some dupe DOF is not going to change that. And unlikely to happen anyway.

    I still hope Wenger walks at the end of the season.

  50. Dissenter

    Bamford
    “The anti-Gazidis current here is a bit silly. It’s based on nothing. Gazidis can’t be judged until Wenger is gone. That is obvious.”

    Not as silly as the systematic depiction of Gazidis as some visionary CEO when he’s done nothing in the past 8.5 years to justify that labeling.

  51. TR7

    Costa is a fucking cheat, a disgrace really.
    United look mobile and sharp without Ibra. Sure the big man scores goals but he slows things down.

  52. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    Who is representing him as that? No one. Pedro has only said that he is competent, ambitious and unhappy with the current set-up and approach.

    What you’ve done above is what we call a straw-man argument. No one has said any of that about Gazidis.

  53. Dissenter

    It seems to me that we all have to chant the legrove anthem of Wenger is the only one (or main one) for Arsenal’s woes to get along.
    I repose no faith in Gazidis, the board of octogenarians (+ Josh Kroenke) and the absentee majority share holder.
    That’s where the new fissure-line is being drawn on Legrove.
    Those that trust Gazidis and those that think he’ll heel throwing aluminum foil in the air to preserve his own position to keep his once-in-a-lifetime job.

  54. Alexanderhenry

    On Gazidis

    I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt- when wenger leaves he’ll be centre stage- but he hasn’t impressed so far.

    In fact, I find his statements incredibly irritating. They’re as clear as mud and often contradictory.
    Remember the statement about arsenal having the same financial firepower as Bayern Munich a few years back?
    Well, last season he said arsenal ‘can’t compete’ in the transfer market and that the club would start looking to develop talent from the lower leagues.

  55. Joe

    Dissenter

    Why not get rid of the main issue which is wenber and then let’s see how the new manager does with 100 or more m pounds KRONKE gives him and see how gazidis does with a competing team ?

    How’s that sound?

    What can gazidis do if wenger is isn’t using the full resources allocated to him and the team has been average and not challenge any major trophy for a decade?

    No matter what gazidis can spin the bore results on the field is what do the selling

    And that is on wenger. 150%

  56. Guns of Hackney

    What I don’t understand is even if Arsenal fire all the mediocrity in the club…get a Director of Football or Sporting Director…get someone in to restructure…sort the wages and the buying of the players…we still have massive issue.

    Wenger will still be the manager of the players. So even if all the above improves…we still have a tactically embarrassing old shyster picking the team and sending them out.

    Improving the off field stuff is moot if the man driving is still the same doddering old has-been that’s been stinking up the club for a decade.

    Tell me I’m wrong or explain how Arsenal will in any way improve if Wenger still has anything to do with the club.

  57. Dissenter

    Bamford
    It’s not a straw man my friend.
    Who decided that Gazidis is “competent”?
    Pedro did and you’re willing to defer to him while I’m not comfortable with that assertion.
    What in his pre-Arsenal years suggest “competence”. What has he done in 8.5 years to silence my skepticism?

    Pedro has prsented him as a visionary. He’s always carved him out of his criticism of the club the years.
    I’m having some strawberrys soon though.

  58. Joe

    Wenger will still be the manager of the players. So even if all the above improves…we still have a tactically embarrassing old shyster picking the team and sending them out. Improving the off field stuff is moot if the man driving is still the same doddering old has-been that’s been stinking up the club for a decade. Tell me I’m wrong or explain how Arsenal will in any way improve if Wenger still has anything to do with the club.

    Spot on.

    Wenger has spent 100m pounds and made us worse.

    Bought Ozil. Cech. Sanchez and made us worse.

    Who cares what happens off the field when the man running the on field crap is completely useless.

  59. Guns of Hackney

    Thanks joe.

    I just don’t get it…can anyone explain???

    For the most part, Arsenal are a well run club off the field…it’s on the field we are a total shambles.

    Give Wenger Barca, Real or Bayern and he’d have them playing like a bunch of drunk Sunday league fatties in no time.

  60. Dissenter

    Let’s rearrange the deck chairs on the sinking ship as it’s going down in slow motion..
    Just like bringing in a sporting director or DoF to mind a dinosaur manager who won’t listen to them. They can but all they want Wenger will do the Chu-Young Park treatment on them.
    Gazidis has been around for 8.5 years. He knows this and is just buying time for himself to earn about 5 million in two years.

  61. Joe

    Guns

    Example I like to use is :

    Give wenger Leicester last year and do you think he leads them to the title?

    Not a chance

  62. Rhys Jaggar

    Everyone here saying Kante would have chosen Arsenal over Chelsea. That is obviously inconsistent with everything else people are saying. Kante had free rein to choose where he went, he was the best DCM in the world last summer and still is now. So he chooses between Conte and a winning owner vs Wenger and a silent owner. Money probably the same both places. I do not think one sane judge would have chosen different to what he chose. He said one season minus champions league going to a top ambitious club and a top, top manager coming into his prime.

    Giroud vs Costa? Hazard vs Ozil? Courtois vs Cech? Fabregas vs Ramsey? Matic vs Coquelin?

    Shall I go on?

    Top players sign for a manager, not a club, in the main. Yes the club has a role too, but it is the manager who will shape your career for better or worse. A stalled career at Real rather than a thriving one at Spurs is only for mercenaries, real footballers move to win things on the pitch, not watch others win from the sidelines. Which is why I think Dele Alli will still be at Spurs next season (he would go to Real to start, not to clean Ronaldo’s boots…so 2019 or 2020 is more likely, if he decides to go….)

    So there appears to be a situation that players say they will sign if Wenger signs. The other more interesting question is who different might sign if there were a change of manager?

  63. china

    a few more horrible defeats and the only leverage he has is to get conditions on his new contract?

    wenger is determined to sign, but the shittier our season ends the greater the slim chance of the club withdrawing their offer

    at the end of the day the club doesn’t appear to actually rate him anymore because otherwise they give him whatever he wants and he’d just sign on the dotted line

    regardless of why, the club is seemingly having second thoughts. if they’re willing to have second thoughts then if the season gets even more toxic our hope should be for him not even being offered the new deal

  64. Guns of Hackney

    Leicester would have been relegated by Wenger.

    Yup…no fucker can explain how changing everything about a club’s backroom and infrastructure, means anything if there is still a drooling div sitting in the dugout scrunching water bottles and screaming at the fourth official.

    It doesn’t make sense.

  65. china

    gazidis is a lame duck CEO collecting his pay cheque for next to fuck all input

    wake me up when the guy actually achieves anything at arsenal

  66. Joe

    China

    A few more bad results who is completely feasible. Spuds. City. United. Everton. Leicester. Boro draw?

    But with Chelsea losing right now, the ultimate nail in wenger’s coffin would be spuddies winning the league.

    That would be 2 years In a row a team with substantially less financial resources has won the league. And spuds now have competed twice in a row and we haven’t in a decade.

  67. china

    isn’t it telling that during games wenger barely says 5 sentences to his actual players, but he has so much to say to the 4th official, a guy who doesn’t give a fuck what eh has to say and isn’t going to change his input for him

  68. TR7

    Kante is a champion player, been amazing so far – both defensively and offensively. Can run with the ball unlike Xhaka who isn’t dynamic at all.

  69. china

    agreed joe

    if utd beat chelsea and spurs do the unthinkable and win the league whilst we keep spiralling down i think the situation will become impossible for wenger to survive

    there will be absolute riots in islington lol

  70. Ishola70

    lol another terrible result for Wenger-Poos if United hold on for the win.

    Teams are just not playing to the Wenger script this season compared to past ones, Not enough are failing for Wenger and his top four trophy,

  71. Dissenter

    Besides sporting directors don’t train the players or design approaches to games.
    Sporting directors don’t pick the starting eleven or make appropriate subs
    The manager does these things.
    This 67 year old man ain’t changing. He’s said this repeatedly.
    This “catalyst for change” talk is just a job-prolongation strategy for the so called CEO.

  72. Guns of Hackney

    I’m hoping manyoo win this.

    1. The pressure on Arsenal will be too much for wengers jellyfish to handle. 7 point gap to united.
    2. It brings spurs closer to a title that for the fence sitting gooners out there that are still 50/50 on Wenger, it will tip them over the edge.
    3. It makes for a bigger showdown for when Morinho pulls wengers pants down for the 34th time.

  73. TR7

    And there are people on this site who don’t think Spurs are even in the title race. As things stand they are merely 4 points behind Chelsea,they are right in it.

  74. Guns of Hackney

    And here’s the thing…

    If Man U and or city don’t get the fourth spot…they’ll go and drop £150m easy and get stronger. Griezman Mbabbe? Who knows.

    Arsenal will sign David Grassmore…you don’t know him? Well, David Grassmore doesn’t know you.

  75. Guns of Hackney

    China

    Yes, this season the top clubs are doing the business. Boro away…fighting relegation…Arsenal are dead.

    Utd go two up

  76. izzo

    Pedro if i were you id scrap this post because you’re not fooling anyone. The only thing that matters right now is that Wenger goes end of season. Nothing else matters. You’ll gain more credibility by piling on pressure rather than writing posts sounding like a defeatist making excuses for why Wenger should be left to carry on because x y z might be happening.

  77. nepGunner

    Wenger can work as Mourinho’s no. 2 for a year or two, learn what is a game plan, what is tactics, and how it is implemented.. And then have a job interview again at Arsenal.. Say whatever about that man.. He knows stuffs and actually shows it in a game where it matters

  78. Richard robbins

    China is on to it. My youngest son roots hard for losses; the only way to bring change. Wenger cannot prevail against change if they continue the pathetic play on the pitch. As much as I try, I just don’t see strategy nor exceptional play given the wage base; given the expectation of fine play and scoring. From passing. And possession, we’ve all grown tired with no result and constant injuries accompanied by justifications. Hopefully Ivan will finally put it on the line to Stan.

  79. S.Asoa

    Wenger is like a prostitute way past , but with the bishop as a devoted customer. Wenger won’t let go the 20 million for next 2 years. He has to be clearly marked as a cheater whore.
    Since already 78% do not want him to stay, how about a public petition to Wenger telling Wenger that the fans will attempt to raise his “price” for walking away. The Shame will be be a welcome collateral.

  80. Marc

    Chelsea are fucking awful against a pretty average ManU team.

    Is the pressure getting to them?

    If Chelsea didn’t win the league would it mean curtains for Conte?

  81. Wenker-wanger

    Ain’t life strange? Wanting man utd to win?
    The logic of spurs winning the prem so that gooners will be incensed and desperate for Wenger to go….Is evident but so un-natural to want the spuds to even show in the top 4.
    But that’s how it is…..Anything to get rid of the sick ailing dictator.
    Listen we’ve had them in our shadow for 20 years…..But the season they beat us in the league, it would be laughable in doing so they rid us of our nightmare.
    So many gooners will hate spuds winning the prem, the knives will be well and truly out. No new contract he is on his way no doubt if that happens.

  82. Marc

    Hackney

    Where are you from?

    No way any Arsenal fan would take the Spud’s winning the league to get rid of Wenger – for a very simple reason he’d use it as an excuse to stay – “I was right all along we only got shit when I was forced to spend money. Just look at Tottenham home grown players and some guy who cost £5 million”.

  83. Alex Cutter

    “No true Arsenal fan would take the Spud’s winning the league no matter what the consequences.”

    Wrong.

    Also, MU spanking Chelsea without Zlatan, Mata, Martial and Mkhitaryan.

  84. Joe

    Marc

    For year upon year, their best days & only “success” has come from supporting anyone but Arsenal, anyone as long as it means that we come up short in the end. Damned if I’m gonna debase myself to their level now! Fuck ’em!!

    They win it so be it. They will have deserved it
    They play better football than anything wenger has produced in the last 6-7 years.

    And honestly, wenger has lowered my fucks to what I care about the league to a negligible level. I feel nothing.

    So if spuds win it do I care? ‘No as long as it leads to wenger leaving.

    I hate the spuds more than anything. Bar wenger. That’s what wenger has done to me , that I can’t even be arsed to raise an eyebrow if they win.

  85. Guns of Hackney

    Marc

    The name should give it away…Hackney. Born and raised but I moved out three years ago to the inbred countryside.

    I’ve never hated Spurs because I’ve no reason to. Spurs have never been a threat. I only hate teams who threatened Arsenal and that was Liverpool and United.

    Now…I’ll take anything to get Wenger gone but I do see your reasoning. It may mean Wenger stays to ‘make things right’.

    Who knows? I just don’t share most gooners passion for hating the spuds.

  86. Ishola70

    MarcApril 16, 2017 16:18:29
    “Chelsea are fucking awful against a pretty average ManU team.Is the pressure getting to them?If Chelsea didn’t win the league would it mean curtains for Conte?”

    If you look at Conte’s results this season he has really only had one bad result and that was against Crystal Palace at home. Losing to Spurs and Man United away isn’t a criminal offence. The loss at Arsenal early in the season well it could be seen that the team at that time were not even a Conte team.

    Conte seems to bounce back after a defeat with a win and looking at their run-in you would think it more likely that they get the wins in but the pressure will be there no doubt now with Spurs breathing down their necks.

  87. Wenker-wanger

    Joe, i share your hatred of Wenger.
    This isn’t arsenal anyway, it’s arsene-al.
    He HAS to go….Whatever it takes.
    The spuds haven’t won the league since 1961.. correct me if I’m wrong…
    Hardly a trend!

  88. Guns of Hackney

    Marc

    I’m turning 41 in may so I’ve known Don Howe for fuck sake…although GG was my proper first Arsenal manager. I’ve been a gooner for 35 years.

    I just don’t hate Spurs. Sorry.

  89. Joe

    Wenker

    Exactly. And it will be another blow to the 13 year conspiracy theory that we couldn’t compete because of money.

    Actually that is already blown with the spuddies challenging 2 years in a row. Leicester winning. Liverpool contending a couple years ago.

  90. Marc

    Joe

    You don’t even get close to being a concern. Just another mouth piece with nothing to say but who can shout really loudly from the shelter of his keyboard.

  91. nepGunner

    Now you know why Manure sold us Danny fcuking Welbeck and persisted with Rashford? Reminds me of deals like Silvestre, Gallas, Benayun et all. Never been able to get top players from our direct competitors.

    On the other hand Wenger is proud of selling our best player to a direct competitor and helping them win the league. The man has no shame, no pride, no dignity..

    Also, not sure what the owner and the CEO are waiting for and pulling the curtain on this shit show? We as fans are so doomed ATM.. There is no silver lining or an outlet out of this horrible situation. Simply disheartening.

  92. Alex Cutter

    “I’ve never hated Spurs because I’ve no reason to. Spurs have never been a threat. ”

    No shit. What kind of “rivalry” is it when the other side hasn’t finished ahead of you for 20 years?

  93. Guns of Hackney

    Marc

    Funnily enough, no. Everyone growing up was either Liverpool or to a lesser extent, Man Utd. Apart from Arsenal…my school was in Highbury but at the time, Liverpool was THE team so the kids were either Arsenal or Liverpool. No spuds as I can remember.

  94. Marc

    Ishola

    It will be interesting. The strange thing is the Spud’s haven’t been under any pressure, everyone had given the title to Chelsea months ago.

    With their history of cracking under pressure could the Spud’s actually man up and push Chelsea all the way?

  95. Wenker-wanger

    Imagine thanking a spuddo supporter if they win the prem and it without doubt forces Wenger out as a consequence.
    Sure would piss on their fireworks.

  96. Danish Gooner

    Seriously this Spud bashing is getting a little bit tiresome,If they win it i Will applaud Them,our rank AS the biggest club i north London is not under any threat If Spurs win a Championship once in a blue Moon.

  97. Guns of Hackney

    I love that so many people are losing their minds about Spurs winning the league ha ha.

    Imagine this…they do the double by beating us in the FA cup final.

    A and E would be packed with gooners whose brains exploded.

    And it’s all wengers fault. Remember that!!!

  98. ADKB

    What wage structure? The one that keeps overpaid duds for years on end, sacrificing improving the team with excellent and better-paid players? It hasn’t helped for over a decade and it won’t happen until the end of time if he were to stay on forever.

    He’s been arguing that you can win the league without financial doping. Leicester proved it last year. He’s stopped talking about that. He’s been arguing that he’s always won the tr4phy for years. I wonder what he’s going to talk about next now.

    Mourinho won a lot of trophies at Chelsea. When they were slipping down the table, he was relieved of his duties. Leicester did the unthinkable one season and the next, they did the unthinkable and got rid of Ranieri. Arsenal are regressing, fans are fighting in the stands, Wenger’s being rewarded with a multi-million pound contract. What???!!!!

    And Spurs are edging closer and closer to the unthinkable? I’ll happily buy my ex-boss a drink for once at the end of the season for sure, for finishing above us. Two hundred drinks if they win the league!

    Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!!!

  99. Ishola70

    Marc:
    “It will be interesting. The strange thing is the Spud’s haven’t been under any pressure, everyone had given the title to Chelsea months ago.With their history of cracking under pressure could the Spud’s actually man up and push Chelsea all the way?”

    I think they will give it a good go this time around.

    But Chelsea rightly still favs to lift the title.

  100. TR7

    @rambo guess I don’t need to post a Daily Mail headline anymore to convince you Spurs were and certainly now are in the race for the title?

  101. Joe

    Guns

    Won’t happen but at least they are competing. Their fans have hope and are estatic. Something we haven’t felt in 13 years.

    Wonder how many will
    Be singing one arsene wenger if they beat us at wembley in the final.

  102. Mick Kartun

    With this golden opportunity, spuds will try to destroy arsene fc in the lane.

    Can’t wait for the bus abuse after the mstch, i predicted there will be stones broke the bus window.

  103. Guns of Hackney

    Maybe city sneak up on both of them?

    Either way, today’s result was great for us Wenger out people…7 points to united.

    Arsenal are under so much pressure to perform and they just can’t do it. Boro for the win and Wenger to self immolate on the touch line. Good bank holiday.

  104. Joe

    ADKb

    How can wenger pay Sanchez 300k p/w when he has to give Walcott Ramsey jack ox all bumper deals to 200k per week next year

    It wouldn’t be fair to his babies

  105. Wenker-wanger

    You know you are a mature fan when you can take the inferiority complexed spuds rejoicing getting above us in the league and just nod and sarcastically smile and say “well done, at last”