Arsene Wenger position untenable, but suspicions he will shamelessly sign on during break

by & filed under News Review.

Screen Shot 2016-08-07 at 18.54.14

I have to say, I really didn’t expect to lose to WBA yesterday. I thought Wenger was going to juice his team up for the usual winning streak that secures our place in the top 4. I was actually hoping for a bit of respite this week, because if I’m totally honest, I’m finding this especially draining, and I’m sure you are too.

I think we’re witnessing more than a ‘unique blip’ in our season, we’re seeing the players down tools and give up on the manager. They don’t care. Not one of them. They are a big chunk of the blame, you can’t ignore performances like that, but you have to look at the root cause, and that’s Arsene Wenger.

If the players don’t care, that’s because the manager hasn’t given them reason to. That means they’re not motivated to succeed. That’s because they’ve lost faith in their leader. How can people not empathise? Wenger offers up the most basic of preparation for games, in a world where players know and have experienced exactly how proper managers operate. He’s struggling to make players better, he can’t fathom a setup that works for the talent he has at his disposal, and there’s nothing surprising about how we play.

I know people love Xhaka, he’s a beautiful passer of the ball, but someone is going to have to work out a way of making the most of his passing skills, whilst covering off for his chronic lack of pace and physicality. You can’t keep on overlooking these issues because teams are exploiting his weaknesses every week. Considering how we play, I really don’t understand how a manager of 21 years experience in the english league didn’t look for a more mobile / powerful regista when scouting.

Danny Welbeck, bless him, really isn’t much of a striker. His goal record over the last 5 years is pretty abysmal and I’m not sure he’s going to blossom into the Thierry Henry figure we hoped he’d become. What is going on with Mustafi? The man’s value is dropping faster than an antisemitic Youtuber on a meltdown. Even Laurent K, our mighty leader at the back, is mailing it in. How many times was he beaten in the air yesterday? He’s a liability at the moment and he’s certainly not showing he’s our best defender.

These issues, in my opinion, stem from a culture of celebrated mediocrity. Sport cannot operate on a socialist model. That’s not how competition works. If you’re paying 75% of the team more than they’re worth and 25% less than they’re worth, what are people working towards? If you tell the media top 4 is a trophy, how do you think that makes elite athletes feel? If there are no consequences to bad performances or poor careers, how can you expect players to have fire in their bellies?

All of these problems have been widely reported on by Le Grove for many years, I just think the consequences are blossoming hard now, like we predicted at the start of the season. Sad part is I, along with many others thought the problem Wenger would have would be the uprising of the new breed of managerial talent. Turns out, the house of cards collapsed without much pressure from anyone else. It looks like a simple case of – if you pump enough shit into the mixer, at some point, you’re going to get shit out – or something like that.

So what to think?

Well, like they tell me at my AA meetings – ‘things have to get worse, before they get better’ – so yesterday’s result, though horrific to watch was kind of what we needed. Wenger is a boxer who’s been knocked through the ropes, he’s on the referee’s count, question is, do you want to see him get up off the floor?

The manager didn’t really give much away after the game, tellingly, Sky nor NBC grilled him on his future. The writers did though, and this is what he said.

“I know what I will do”

“You will soon know”

“Today I do not necessarily worry about that. We are in a unique bad patch we never had in 20 years.”

“We lose game after game at the moment and that for me is much more important than my future.”

It’s very difficult to analyse what he’s saying here. His body language was very calm, almost bordering on arrogant. He didn’t look broken, he looked pretty at ease. You can read that as the mental lift of knowing he’s calling it a day, or you could read it as the arrogance of a man who knows he’s staying because he calls the shots.

The worrying thing is the lack of analysis of the situation. Wenger thinks the annual collapse is unique to the last ten years, when it’s anything but. The fact he’s suggesting it’s a blip sounds like he’s making excuses as to why staying on or the reason he should be a given a second chance (he has cash in the bank with Stan as it were).

However, if he were to stare at this mess in the cold light of day, it’s impossible for him to look at the problems he’s suffering and think he can solve them.

‘Bayern, PSG, Real, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and City have all changed managers since Arsenal last won away at a top 8 side in the league.’

Look at that statistic. It’s appalling. Then look at the away fans, the most loyal Wenger lovers of us all, waving banners and chanting songs about moving the manager on. Then look online and the seething rage among Arsenal fans the world over. Read what the pundits are saying. Look at the attitude of the players. Look at who wants to leave the club this summer. What will sponsors think as we negotiate a new deal for our shirt? It is beyond the pale that this decision is in his hands, but it is.

… and look, you need to stop blaming Gazidis for this. I’m pretty sure that the whispers I’d heard about him being cool with Wenger were off the mark, and I shouldn’t be surprised, he was pretty pissed off when I met with him in the Podolski days. He and his commercial team will know that Wenger is a car crash and they’ll no doubt want him gone.

The real problem started with David Dein introducing a horror of an investor to the club without doing his due diligence. Stan K is an embarrassment to sport and the billionaires club. How can his ego deal with the fact all his franchises are tanking? There’s a tweet going around about his hockey team yesterday,

‘Looks like the Avs (Avalanches) have given up’

But here’s the problem, because his clubs are such a mess elsewhere, Arsenal look like a volcano of glory. Our owner has such low standards and such a lack of interest in winning, he actually thinks Wenger is a good investment. So until that bond of love is broken, Wenger calls the shots.

That’s why flying banners, though a bit cringe, are important. Because Wenger needs to see these things, because left to his own devices, he’ll stay on forever.

However, he must know what’s coming. We’re going to get torn apart by City when we return from the break. Then we have a bit of respite in the league. Then things get really salty. City at Wembley, Spurs away, then United at home. We could finish 8th if we’re not careful. Everton just drew level on points with us.

That’s why I’m very worried about Wenger using this two-week break to announce that he’s shamelessly signed on. When the narrative is dead, he can let our season implode with shellshocked fans that are numb because they can’t quite believe what’s happened, versus them hounding him out of the club with more and more aggression building as we do worse and worse.

The only hope I hold out for him quitting is that the cold hard facts are too difficult to ignore. There is no argument for him to stay. He should know that and he should leave with a bit of dignity. Because this isn’t a blip, this is the start of a collapse that is going to get more and more expensive to fix the longer Stan K lets it go on for.

Another sad day for Arsenal, let’s hope next week isn’t a sad start to the next two years.

Right, see you in the comments.

 

455 Responses to “Arsene Wenger position untenable, but suspicions he will shamelessly sign on during break”

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  1. Dissenter

    Bamford,
    I too don’t subscribe to any major political party. My voting is all over the place.
    I’m just sick of little people repeating cliches.

  2. Jay

    That pro-Arsene banner: seem to be two theories on social media. (I) It was paid for by some Hong Kong based supporters, (II) It was paid for by the Board.
    Anyone able to post some solid info about it???

  3. Marko

    Sauce if you’re going to make the argument the least you could do is own the label

    The whole country’s in corporations pockets. Has been for years and is especially now

  4. SUGA3

    Dissenter,

    German economy has nothing to do with who the chancellor is, unless the said chancellor goes batshit one way or another. The last chancellor who hd significant impact on the national economy had a fucking tache 😆 Their economy has been aided by draining the capital from the so-called ‘Mitteleuropa’ , which is more than a century-old concept.

    Marko,

    Multi million uncontrolled immigration is never a good thing. Especially when the said immigrants don’t speak the language, have no job skills and make zero effort to assimilate.

  5. Bamford10

    Dissenter

    While I don’t blame anyone for finding Hillary Clinton distasteful, anyone who voted for Trump and is now saying they regret their vote has no one but themselves to blame. What Trump was and what he stood for was obvious; no one can claim to now be surprised by his camp’s approach to things.

  6. Tomtom

    Zoran
    27 million combined for Dubuchy and Chambers and add in another 66 million on Zhaka and Mustafi and another 17 million on Perez.
    That’s 110 million on 5 incredibly average players, you should be building a quality spine to a team with that money.

  7. Bamford10

    Suga3

    All of that is nothing more than anti-immigrant scapegoating. Society has many ills, none of which are explained by that nonsense.

  8. Relieable Sauce

    Marko

    “Own the label”
    Jeez…
    What label would that be then Marko, help me out here. You seem to know my views better than myself.

  9. OleGunner

    Citing a poster from the wonderful A cultured left foot blog:

    “Suggestion by the Online Gooner editor Kevin Whitcher that the pro-Wenger banner flown over during the game yesterday was paid for by Jardine Matheson Holdings. Who the feck are they? you may ask. The answer is that they are a tax-haven (Bermuda) based British company owned by…..the Keswicks. So essentially (if correct) our Chairman paid for a pro-Wenger banner in opposition to the protest made by the fans.”

  10. SUGA3

    Bamford,

    I think assimilation is the immigrants’ stinking duty. I am am immigrant myself and I practise what I preach.

    The problem is that some of the western politicians live in the fucking la la land, thinking that processes that normally need to take a couple of decades can be engineered. Because this is an orchestrated plan, make no mistake.

    Look up the name of Coudenhove-Kalergi, one of the EU ‘founding fathers’.

  11. Adam A. Carbarundum

    I see you came out of your crypt, Welldickinthemouthio! Taking a chance during daylight, aren’t you?

  12. Dissenter

    Bamford
    I agree with you.
    He tapped into the gaping wound of the America that most people don’t know. The vast poverty of working people who have lost their jobs to policies that favor the balance sheet of multinationals over real people.

    I actually want him to do 100% of EVERYTHING he’s promised to do. It’s his voters who are going to be hurt the most. It will also be the most expensive civics lesson the country has ever seen.

    What I don’t agree with is the denigration of the office and misuse of power. I don’t like the fragrant lying and defense of the indefensible. That smacks of the making of totalitarianism to me.

    It’s like peeing on ones leg and then insisting that it’s rain. When you tweet a mistruth, withdraw it tactfully and move on. Don’t consume the country in meaningless BS.

  13. Bamford10

    “How’s your protest coming along?”

    Quite well, actually. Some reason to believe dipshit won’t be staying on, and current “he’ll stay” PR is that he’ll stay on for one year rather than two.

    Thanks for your interest in our affairs. 😉

  14. Alexanderhenry

    Marko

    ‘Do I think arsenal will improve post wenger? Almost certainly not’.

    That’s my prediction. What’s yours?

    Do you think Arsenal will improve post wenger?

    Improvement would be doing better than finishing top four and progressing to the knock out phase of the CL by the way, which means actually winning one of those trophies.

  15. Dissenter

    Suga
    You’re aware that Germany successfully [to an extent] integrated the millions of Turks that came to work the factories in the sixties, right?
    This refugee catastrophe that you very well describe might turn out to benefit German industry eventually.

    Europe has a declining population…just saying
    I do agree with you that it was very badly handled by Merkel but the German people will have a chance to say their own bit soon.

  16. SpanishDave

    How embarrassing for our club, when the Chairman is getting involved in banner flying to save his managers job. Unreal.
    The gap between the fans and board is getting wider by the day

  17. Red&White4life

    “His body language was very calm, almost bordering on arrogant. He didn’t look broken, he looked pretty at ease.”

    Yes indeed… And this is the ultimate proof that he will sign soon.
    He knows he’s untouchable, he don’t even care about the bad results anymore, and he’s probably persuaded that we will won the FA Cup.

    No mighty prof, no party.
    (god help us)

  18. SUGA3

    Dissenter,

    No such thing is going to happen. Turks who came to Germany in the 60s were still filling in huge gaps left in the population by WWII and the German industry was then going up to its full speed after being pretty much levelled during the war.

    My opinion is that they should consider taking in the likes of Spaniards, with youth unemployment reaching 40-50%. Also, what is the point of taking in a bunch of spongers? Percentage of the so-called ‘refugees’ finding work is in single figures.

  19. Dissenter

    The pro-Wenger banner was paid for by a very wealthy individual with deep pockets. There was no public appeal for raising money so it didn’t come from every day working gooners. The anti-Wenger fund raising was all done in the public.
    I expect good investigative journalism will unearth the source of that money very soon.
    I’m pretty sure it was the club that paid through a third party.

  20. SUGA3

    …as for the upcoming elections: the tossup is between Merkel and Schultz. The latter barely has high school level education (if that) and is a rabid socialist. So it is like choosing between plague and cholera.

    Being German I would grind my teeth and vote Merkel. Or not vote at all.

  21. Ishola70

    Alex H

    It has already been mentioned that Wenger is leaving the next manager a bit of a shit show so to go on about the next man surpassing straight away what was done previously is a bit sly.

    This shit show that Wenger will leave has been festering for a long time and ironically it has come more to the fore when Wenger had more money to spend.

  22. WestLondonGoon

    Jay, so you don’t have to scroll back.

    This is what I was told this morning, and I’ve no reason to doubt the source.

    ‘It turns out whoever paid for the RespectAW plane yesterday didn’t get the plane company to sign a confidentiality agreement and they have released it was paid for by Jardine Matheson Holdings (Jardines); Chairman and MD of Jardines are Sir Harry Keswick and Ben Keswick.”

    So basically the club paid for second plane through a company, based in Hong Kong, Jardine Matheson. They are owned by Chips Keswick’s brother and employs both another of his brothers and his son as board members.

    Hopefully the papers, who I believe have been passed this info, will dig further into it in the next 24 hours and will expose the board as being compicit in driving the division within the fanbase.

    Best case scenario,would be we are rid of them all by season’s end, but I’m sure that we all realise that isn’t going to happen.

    To think we used to be a classy club. Denis Hill-Wood will be turning in his grave.

  23. SUGA3

    …as for the Europe’s population being on the decline: responsible people want security before they start breeding and it has been a bit short in this department lately. The only ones breeding en masse are cap in hand gimmies, domestic and foreign, simple as that. Petrified what it does to the gene pool. Glad I am nearly 40 and probably won’t see the ultimate effects if it that much.

  24. Dissenter

    Suga,
    You are forgetting the immense power of the immigrant economy.
    Immigrants can endure untold hardship and still keep going on to make a life for themselves.
    Spanish people relocating cant be classified the same as Chinese, Nigerian, Syrian, Iranian or Brazilian people relocating. There’s a verve that you comes from hardship that you just cant make up.

    It’s been America’s best secret for generations.
    I like you am speaking from experience. Immigrants can live on scraps and produce something out of it. it’s native born populations that are more needy.

  25. Marko

    Multi million uncontrolled immigration is never a good thing. Especially when the said immigrants don’t speak the language, have no job skills and make zero effort to assimilate.

    No job skills? They generally take the jobs that Americans are too lazy to take and don’t want. Don’t speak the language? They fucking learn. Zero effort to assimilate? Absolute bollox too. I’m assuming your talking immigrants from Mexico in this regard again totally disagree on your stance. Unless you believe that they’re all rapists and criminals. And regard to refugees the country couldn’t be any more wrong in their thinking. Hard enough to get into America these days but if you’re brown called Mohammed and come from a war torn country you’re 2 years minimum being vetted and even then you aren’t guaranteed to get in. It’s all blatant fear mongering. Sure enough they’ve a problem at the southern border but you could argue they help contribute to the problem. For example people are always so quick to mention the drugs and trafficking of people from Mexico to America but never really mention the guns and money that goes into Mexico from the States that facilitates the violence that a lot of these people are fleeing from.

  26. Elmo

    Mbappe is such a talent. Just scored a great goal vs Caen. 9th goal and 2 assists in 7 starts for an 18 year old.

    Not a chance in hell he would even look Arsenal’s way if we came sniffing.

  27. TitsMcGee

    That’s why I’m very worried about Wenger using this two-week break to announce that he’s shamelessly signed on. ”

    Anyone that has posted here in recent years will know that Wenger will probably announce he’s staying in the coming days.

    As a matter of fact I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t. It’s the perfect time for him to do it. Do it now and he doesn’t have to go into a stadium with angry fans. The anger will have died down by the time we return.

    Even the most ardent AKBs must be wondering wtf is going on right now (deep down anyway ).

  28. SUGA3

    Marko,

    I am talking bout what is happening in Europe, particularly in Germany. My family friends have a nice house there, which WAS worth a few bob until ‘Mutti Merkel’ did not build a refugee centre nearby. No public consultation, nothing and you need one to build a fucking bar. Do you want to tell me which one has more potential impact? Property value is dirt out there these days comparably and it really is unsafe. You can forget going out to walk the dog in the neighbourhood after 6 PM.

    They learn the language? Maybe English, German or French, But the EU already wants to resettle these ‘refugees’ to places like Poland against their will. How many do you think will learn the language and become an addition to the workforce?

  29. SUGA3

    Dissenter,

    These benefits must outweigh the outlay, otherwise there is no point. I did not come to the UK with cap in hand expecting handouts, like most of those chanting ‘Germany’ do.

  30. SUGA3

    …and trust me, most unemployed south Europeans would jump at the chance of getting work. I think it is a matter of common decency, I remember being without work in the old country for a while in mid-20s and it was hugely frustrating, because this is the time in your life where you expect to take off and be independent.

  31. G

    ‘That’s why I’m very worried about Wenger using this two-week break to announce that he’s shamelessly signed on”
    If he was that shameless wouldn’t he have signed already

  32. Dissenter

    Gareth Southgate was right to drop Theo
    I was expecting a reaction from Theo yesterday, he was as flaccid a overcooked spaghetti and is the poster child of Wenger second decade any arsenal.
    Nathan Redmond is by far the better all round player.

  33. Dissenter

    Suga
    These benefits must outweigh the outlay, otherwise there is no point. I did not come to the UK with cap in hand expecting handouts, like most of those chanting ‘Germany’ do.”
    I dont disagree but only time will tell.

  34. Majestic gooner

    In wengers 30 or so years of his so called coaching career he has failed miserably to grasp that in football to create space in a football match you need players who can dribble and beat their man, he has tried copying Barcelona forgetting an important factor , that team has messi, iniesta, neymar, Pedro , all players who can beat their man and create space. I struggle to find any player in the current squad who does that, there are good technical players but dribblers they are not. Even the team that had hleb , nasri were better at that than this current team. All this team does is pass pass and pass some more. Yesterday we complained about the defence but the attack is also crap.

  35. Elmo

    WestLondonGoon

    The chances of Jardines hiring a light aircraft in the holding company’s name are zero. Someone clearly has made that up.

    Why would a large conglomerate with a huge exposure to global consumers like Jardines choose to expose itself as taking a heavily partisan stand in the fan politics of a football club in England? The revenues of Jardines are more than 120 times that of Arsenal. It’s like someone saying Walmart’s head office hired the second plane just because of the Kroenke link; it’s completely unthinkable.

    Someone had just made that up having read Keswick’s Wikipedia page.

    A betting company or a tabloid newspaper would not surprise me, seeing as they carry out publicity stunts to drum up business and generate interest in events, but even then I’d imagine they would have made it clear it was them.

  36. Rambo Ramsey

    If its true that the board arranged for the pro Wenger message, that should tell you how deep the problems at this club go. Are there still muppets who’ll pretend Kroenke and co are not a root cause for this loser culture that’s spread all over the club?

  37. Alexanderhenry

    Ishola

    I was expecting that from someone on here.

    Look how quickly Conte turned things around at Chelsea.

    Arsenal have some decent players already and more cash in the bank than any other club. The powers that be should be able to recruit a top manager and if that manager is any good, he’ll be able to turn it around after one season at the most.

    No excuses and once wenger’s gone no continuing to blame him- although that’s what many fans will do of course if things don’t improve.

  38. Dissenter

    Elmo
    Even multinational companies make mistakes.
    The advertising may have been done in haste before it was reviewed by the hordes of lawyers.

  39. Ishola70

    No Alex H the next manager has a much bigger job on his hands than Conte did taking over at Chelsea. Much bigger.

    Not just about surplus or not good enough players but the whole infrastructure.

    As said this downturn this season has been festering for a long time. Said so many times it has been the New Emperors Clothes show for so long at Arsenal.

  40. Dave

    Alex

    Kinda defeating your previous argument with “Arsenal have some decent players and more cash in the bank than other club” – pretty decent resources for a team likely to come 6th or lower.

  41. TheBayingMob

    If the club really did pay for that banner they deserve a full on stadium boycott and the relegation that might become more a reality than a comical comparison to Brian Cough … I hate Kroenke that much I wouldn’t oppose relegation to this Colorado Cancer out of our club …

  42. Rambo Ramsey

    Was there any noise at all about the possibility of a pro Wenger plane pre-game? I didn’t hear any. This is what makes me believe its the work of people with money and power, either our own donkey board or some betting company.

    If it was arranged by ordinary fans, be it the AKBs or rival fans, no doubt we’d have heard news about it beforehand.

  43. Marko

    Suga you may have a point although slightly askew from mine regards immigration in Europe which is fair enough it’s hard in Europe with all the open borders that exist if we’re honest but that absolutely does not apply to America where obviously it’s so much different. Also I’m assuming you’re from Poland? So your kind of stance on immigration is baffling a little considering the poles over the years would have been treated with the same kind of hatred and disdain when they’ve immigrated. I mean your argument could of been levied at the poles these last few years and the Irish back in the day unjustly imo. From my experience living in Ireland they’ve contributed and assimilated.

  44. Alexanderhenry

    Dave

    The current squad aren’t that bad, plus there is ample cash to spend. Therefore, the argument that it will take five years to ‘rebuild’ is bogus.

  45. BigLee

    “Here in England, the response is always to buy, buy, buy. I have said for many years buying is not the solution. I have spent a huge amount of money in the last 3 seasons and look where we are. Once again I have been proven right.”

  46. S Asoa

    “JeffMarch 19, 2017 09:09:53
    I don’t think Kroenke gives a flying fuck about Arsenal being mid-table if it’s still making money. If that means keeping Wenger and not rocking the steady cash-cow, he’s all for it. Kroenke just wants it to carry on as usual. He has absolutely zero interest in ideas like “winning” or “glory”. Those things are incidental and secondary. A balance sheet is much more interesting and important to him than the fans or their aspirations. ”

    Apparently cannot ejaculate
    Explains the oddity of the wigman

  47. SUGA3

    Marko,

    You see, I took my fair share of shit from bigoted little Englanders, even had the pleasure of verbally slapping down Mr Nick Griffin’s lawyer in my first job here 😉

    The thing is that as you say, Poles generally assimilate pretty well, with unemployment rate being lower than that of native population’s. You could say we are mostly model immigrants. Yes, the numbers that came to the UK were in millions. Did you know the report someone wrote for Mr Blair said something about mere seventy thousand? This is how I know anything the politicians say is full of crap :mrgreen:

  48. Dave

    Alex

    But I didn’t say it would take 5 years, I think if we get a decent manager, the impact will be immediate. You said that Wenger has done a great job with the resources he’s had – then you point out we’ve got great resources. Plus you said that we couldn’t financially compete with City, Chelsea and Utd but then say we’ve got more money in the bank than any one else ?

  49. SpanishDave

    Now we are hearing.
    Wenger should be allowed to go out on a high.
    Poor Arsene after all he has done he doesn’t deserve this.
    Give him one more year poor man.
    He’s had ten years to go out on a high, and this being his last year of contract it has become his worst so it just sums up his lack of ability.
    So I have a nasty feeling he will say that he will only do one more year to give the club time to finish the statue and rename the stands after him , and time to organise a tribute at Westminster Abbey to him.

  50. Elmo

    Dissenter

    Multinationals make misjudgments in the tone of the advertising or PR they send out.

    A global conglomerate based in Hong Kong doesn’t hire a light aircraft for a local football protest from its group headquarters, in the name of its holding company, just because a relative of the controlling family is on the board of the football club.

    Even in the hugely unlikely event where a member of the Keswick family did hire the plane, it would be some old English buffer stammering to a PA to do it, and in a private capacity.

    There’s enough information to kick out both Kroenke and Wenger without stuff like this being made up. It just deflects attention away from Wenger’s failings.

  51. S Asoa

    Alex Henry
    Wellbechio

    Seem to be taking turns in trolling and upsetting the direction of the discourse.

    Good detective work to expose the Board in their puerile attempt to discredit the fan’s protests by hiring a plane to buzz a counter banner. DISGRACEFUL.
    HOW PETTY CAN WENGER GET ?

  52. WestLondonGoon

    The thought that our board mmight have paid for the plane is repulsive, but that doesn’t rule it out. No one has taken responsibility, which you can be sure that any AKB fan group would be very quick to do, so who did?

    The person I got this from hasn’t got an agenda other than being totally fed up with how the club is at the moment. Like many, he wants Wenger to step down but without all this bitterness. He also admits that the current situation is largely of Wenger’s own making as he should have announced in August that this would be his last season so a succession could be properly implimented.

    Now the journos have got hold of it, I’m sure the truth will soon out and the board will be forced to show their hand.

  53. Adam A. Carbarundum

    The more pressing question is given the current toxic environment, how easy or difficult will it be to sign anyone of value? How many name players are going to seriously show interest in an organization that appears to be imploding? To me this is the most pressing concern.

  54. China

    The immigration debate is always a big one and like every significant social-economic issues carries positives and negatives – but I’m not buying into the daily mail type fear mongering

    There have been enough good statistics over the years showing that immigrants on the whole contribute to the uk positively in terms of what they pay in, and bring to the country and what they take out

    I don’t deny problems do arise and there will be plenty of bad eggs as with anything significant group of people

    But really it’s majorly overstated imo

    My parents voted brexit because they said so many people in Bristol can’t even speak English. I asked them when was the last time they met someone who they know couldn’t speak sufficient English – they couldn’t answer because that notion had come mostly from relentless fear mongering from opportunists like the daily mail, Nigel ‘cunt’ farage and friends.

    As ever I accept that it’s not a one-sided conversation and some people might ultimately lose out in some form – but the overall narrative I’m not buying at all

  55. Marko

    The current squad aren’t that bad,

    So you agree that Wenger should do better and ultimately the current state is down to him.

    Suga that’s the point I was making. The idea that immigrants don’t assimilate well, adapt to a different culture and work hard is a totally wrong stereotype. The idea that they take our jobs is again bullshit. Which is why I’m baffled that a polish immigrant in England has such opinions on other immigrants in wherever. Sure there’s bad apples as they say but the positives outweigh the negatives generally speaking

  56. Adam A. Carbarundum

    If the plane hiring story is true, it’s obvious that the board are more than determined to keep the status quo at any cost. That in itself should tell you that Wenger most assuredly will stay on. The real problem will be the fallout and just how determined supporters that oppose will be. This promises to get very ugly.

  57. China

    I don’t know the exact latest with Germany and considering the scale of immigration they’ve recently allowed to happen I’m sure it’s not exactly the same

    But I suspect all western developed countries are *broadly* going through the same situation to a greater or lesser extent

  58. tunnygriffboy

    We’ll be lucky to win half our remaining games if we play like yesterday. Perhaps it’s a good thing

    Wenger will go

    We’ll have no European football

    No European football means the new manager wil have time to assess the squad working on who he wants to keep while fully concentrating on getting back in the top four before pushing onwards

    God forbid he stays. He’ll lose all our better players

  59. Adam A. Carbarundum

    @China…Canada has opened its borders wide to immigrants from Syria. In consideration that the current government leans to the left, it’s certainly not going as smoothly as they had hoped. There are real problems in the country with poverty and high taxes, and the perception of not looking after your own is not being received well.

  60. Marko

    After this season (really the last few) the idea that one more season so he can go out on a high is beyond fucking dumb. He spent 90 million last summer poorly so the assumption that this summer he’d spend more and better makes no sense. Keep in mind also that he only spent 50+ million of the 90 million after enormous pressure cause he dithered most of the summer. Christ we started the season with Chambers and Holding in defence knowing we needed a centre back and a striker etc. No more Arsene summers please

  61. S Asoa

    BEWARE
    Wenger announcing that he will inform after the international break is a ploy to delay option for a new manager beyond the deadline set by Allegri after which he will speak to his second choice clubs .
    Wenger wants to ensure that no top notch Manager will come in who will shoot his shitty ” legacy” into a a shit-pot .
    Wenger has only disdain for Arsenal which he has been pissing on including on the fans.
    SO NO LET UP GUYS. BRING YOUR A4 POSTERS . LET US HAVE A COLOURFUL MESSAGE.
    PIES, TOMATOES
    LET US DO IT

  62. SUGA3

    Marko,

    What I am getting at is what I said above: not all immigrants come to work. There is simply no point in getting a few million people into camps, give them money and let them do nothing.

    Also, there is the small issue of cultural compatibility: if you have to explain that you just don’t grab women at the swimming pools and put up signs that you should not do a number two in the showers, then something is seriously wrong here, wouldn’t you agree?

  63. Marko

    There are real problems in the country with poverty and high taxes, and the perception of not looking after your own is not being received well.

    You can literally level that at every so called country in the west and that’s absolutely nothing to do with immigrants.

  64. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Wenger has spent poorly in the transfer market. But let us not forget the most important thing….he has an incredible list of players that he could have signed. Honestly, it’s a comedy that keeps writing itself!

  65. SUGA3

    And finally, it is about the European Union being shown up for the farce that it is. Bend over, pass the lube, get fucked.

    Basically, it is counterproductive to allow this sort of influx without addressing the problem at its source. It brings complications, including fatalities and costs more money. It is an insane strategy. Simple as that.

  66. Marko

    Wait did Alexander Henry just say there is ample cash to spend….?Like is he not aware of the irony in him saying this

    Kind of goes against his argument that Wenger only spends what he’s given

  67. TitsMcGee

    I’m not even sure top 4 is gone yet. But hard to see Spurs capitulating again.

    Change is so clearly needed.

  68. Relieable Sauce

    You can literally level that at every so called country in the west and that’s absolutely nothing to do with immigrants.
    ———————-

    Greece?

  69. China

    Yeah well I won’t argue passionately on this point because I can only really speak for the uk and china. I won’t claim to be on expert on other countries

    My issue with the debate on immigrations these days isn’t that issues don’t exist – but rather than I get the impression they’re being significantly overstated by an extremely vocal minority who are negatively impacted and their plight gets proppohated as a massive national crisis by media outlets and politicians who enjoy the narrative

  70. Adam A. Carbarundum

    But adding to the growing problem certainly does not help,Marko. These are people who won’t be contributing to the system for years, if ever. The only positive thing that can be said is that at least they are safer. Saying that, they certainly do complain a lot about what they have been given. Beggars shouldn’t be choosers comes to mind when I read about their complaints. Just saying.

  71. Marko

    Also, there is the small issue of cultural compatibility: if you have to explain that you just don’t grab women at the swimming pools and put up signs that you should not do a number two in the showers, then something is seriously wrong here, wouldn’t you agree?

    What you’re saying that they all do that? Absurd. Immigrants or not sexual assault of any kind happens. What you have to be Muslim to be a creepy cunt? Plenty of white Christian rapists in the world too.

    Basically, it is counterproductive to allow this sort of influx without addressing the problem at its source.

    Worth pointing this is something we agree upon but in a different way. Personally I feel most of the migration problems that exist in the world is because of the foreign policies of countries like America and Russia. I’d love to know what you mean by addressing the problem at its source

  72. Dissenter

    Elmo
    A global conglomerate based in Hong Kong doesn’t hire a light aircraft for a local football protest from its group headquarters, in the name of its holding company, just because a relative of the controlling family is on the board of the football club’

    You speak with so much conviction. Do you run a multinational company?
    Actually 3000 bucks is small change to a multinational.
    The turn-over the the pro-Wenger ad could have been less than 15 minutes. Sir Chips could have called the same company that flew the Wenger-out banner and booked an order by phone. The characters are already pre-made and it’s just about slotting them into the array.
    You’re thinking too deep mate.
    It could have been a simple credit card transaction by phone using Sir Chip’s company credit card. Directors usually have company credit cards.

  73. China

    It’s like the headlines and rhetoric across the uk is about the way all the millions of Johnny foreigners are run through out open borders are such bollocks

    It’s *really* difficult to get a visa for the uk if you’re from outside the eu

    My wife was even refused a short stay family visit visit shortly after we got married despite the fact she’d studied in the uk before and also ticked every single recommended box for getting the visa (which was really tough)

    She had to have £10k frozen in a bank account 6 months before she applied for her visa in order to qualify. She did and had bank statements and an explanation saying she’d been given the money as a wedding gift by her mum.

    The reason she was rejected for her visa? ‘We don’t know where your mum got the money from’

    Absolute farce. They just want to say no and turn people away.

  74. Vintage Gun

    Wenger sold Van Persie to Man U stating that he knew United would win the league in the ensuing season yet he still sanctioned the deal. Think about that. he SOLD any chance of winning the title for £24m.

    The same man who stated that he would gladly take a 2nd place finish for the next 20 YEARS!!!

    How some fans still have the audacity to claim that the board/Fans/Media/players are the reason for our lack of competitiveness how do you explain the above?

    Oh and if you say ‘The board made him sell RVP’ then why didn’t he take a stand for the club he “loves” and resigned?

  75. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Likely the away supporters through their ticket purchases paid for the Chippy Air Wagon. Nothing quite like making the anti-Wenger’s to pay twice! You gotta admire the the possible irony of it.

  76. Olumide

    The only reason Arsene Wenger is still at Arsenal is not the board nor Kroenke but Arsenal fans. Imagine you’re the owner (and you’re not an Arsenal fan or a football fan for that matter) and you hear about fans dissent but you tune in to a match and see the stadium is full. There is no noise of the fans on the back of the manager. Few fans who show banners are shouted down by other fans because fans must ‘respect’ a manager who takes home a measly £8m per annum. Now do you see a dissent there? You want to see dissent? See Real Madrid fans. See Barca fans. See Italian fans. Even Man Utd. Despite Ferguson been very successful, Man United fans criticised him while he was there than we were criticising Wenger two years ago. Kroenke is a business man. Hit him in the pockets and he would react. He wouldn’t survive at a club like Real Madrid. If Wenger is still here, it’s because fans allowed it.
    I wouldn’t blame our players so much for this shit show. Hazard was shit Las season, Mahrez was shit at the beginning of the season. See them now under a new manager. How many players have not regressed under Arsene Wenger in recent years?

  77. Marko

    I mean I’ll agree that there’s problems that exist with immigration but I tend not to agree with the certain rhetoric that exist out there that they’re all cunts and rapists and don’t contribute to society and are dangerous. I mean that argument can be levied at anyone simply being a human being imo. Has little to do with religion or where a person is from. If you’re bad you’re bad

  78. China

    Marlo we British have been a massive contributor to global fighting in the last 2 decades. Plenty of bombs being dropped by the British

  79. SUGA3

    Marko,

    By addressing the problem at its source I mean bombing the living shit out of the likes of IS. During the times when there is no escaping from electronic surveillance , it is only a matter of will to do so,it’s a no contest from military point of view. Expect there is no such will, because it is all a part of a plan.

  80. Dissenter

    Marko,
    The ‘cultural compatibility’ stuff is way over blown
    That’s what was said in the states when the Chinese were brought in to build the railways or the Irish [due to Catholicism] came too the states after the drought.
    There’s a desperation immigrants bring that helps an economy to innovate and push on.
    The cultural compatibility crap was thrown out in the states with the 1965 act that stopped the restriction from Asia and Africa, and gave preference to northern and western Europeans over southern and eastern Europeans.

  81. Dissenter

    The only reason Arsene Wenger is still at Arsenal is not the board nor Kroenke but Arsenal fans”

    100% false
    Arsenal fans don’t have a say.

  82. Up 4 grabs now

    No top four this year, usually one chasing team capitulate and we sneak in.
    Except this year we’re the capitulating team.
    Even if we were in form (which we’re a million miles from)
    The remaining fixtures are about as bad as it gets. And the form were in we aren’t winning many if any of them.
    Spuds, city, utd, stoke, Everton, Southampton.
    The biggest fear is Wenger still thinks he’s the man to turn it around and wants to try again next season.
    It’s going to get worse before it gets better, I don’t think we’ve even hit bottom yet.

  83. Sky

    Ramsey yesterday was horrible. I can’t just understand the freehand he gets despite his very poor display every season. He is very positionally unaware and plays almost as a striker leaving gaps in the midfield.

    All the following players including Wenger must leave

    Walcot
    Ramsey
    Wilshere
    Metresacker
    Gabriel
    Monreal
    Gibbs
    Debauchy
    Giroud
    Xhaka
    Sanogo
    Ozil
    Coquelin
    Metresacker

  84. SUGA3

    China,

    EU-8 nationals (including the Poles) used to get the permanent resident status granted after five years’ stay in the UK. Joined the EU in May 2004, a lot would get these rights as early as 2009, with another year required for naturalisation, making it 2010.

    Since November 2011 you need to formally apply for it. Had to list all the absences from the UK for the last 12 years. Naturalisation procedure only needs 5.

  85. SUGA3

    …and it delays the process by another six months or so. The naturalisation itself has just gone up by a few hundred, overall you need to lay out a cool £1,500 to get your hands on the UK passport these days.

  86. tunnygriffboy

    People are fleeing the horrors foisted upon them by the west. Shouldn’t we be duty bound to look after and help them after the carnage we caused

    With the famine in Africa and continuing problems of climate change there will be more and more migration. It will end up with wealthy countries with amenable weather watching the poor people from drought ridden areas starving to death. Wars start over things like this.

  87. Marko

    By addressing the problem at its source I mean bombing the living shit out of the likes of IS.

    Yeah just be careful of civilian casualties. It’s that kind of foreign policy that makes you enemies

  88. Dissenter

    I think we need to end the Xhaka experiment as soon as possible. If Bayern come for him sell him.
    He’s not going to succeed in England.
    He’s too slow, cannot tackle his positional awareness is not good. He just doesn’t have the energy to adapt to the domestic game. He can’t even press properly.
    He’s not a deep lying playmaker so Pedro needs to stop calling him a regista.

  89. China

    there was a non eu migrant who had been married to a Brit for 25 years. Had british children and right to permanent residence in the uk.

    She left to take care of her sick parents for a while and came back to the uk. Shortly after she got held in a detention center without warning and then got deported out of the uk

    This was on the BBC a few days ago

    There’s a really nasty way the uk is turning towards foreigners right now. I’m frankly scared of bringing my wife and son ‘home’ because it’s quite clear that the uk doesn’t want my wife to be there

    It’s absolutely heartbreaking to feel like your country sees your wife as a leech that needs to be stopped from sucking the country dry.

  90. Dissenter

    I will take Oriel Romeu over Xhaka everyday of the week.
    Don’t even bring up Wanyama, I remember people disqualifying him because he had red cards last season.

  91. Marko

    With the famine in Africa and continuing problems of climate change there will be more and more migration.

    And the west will continue to wonder why and claim no responsibility for it. It’s an endless cycle of human misery. Add onto that being an Arsenal supporter under Wenger and you can imagine what I’m like at parties

  92. Dissenter

    Mertasacker should have played yesterday to adjust to the Westbrom deadball tactics.
    Whats the point of paying him and not playing him when he’s fit.

  93. Leedsgunner

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39317475

    It was clear that Alexis was struggling at half time — who decided to play him despite his injury? Arsene Wenger.

    Playing the second half all but ended Alexis’ season. Any accountability for the manager that chose to keep him on the field? This isn’t bad luck. This is bad management, pure and simple.

    No doubt Arsene and the Arsenal PR department will now latch on to Sanchez’s horrible injury as the “reason” for our club’s plight…

    “Bad luck, bad luck we’re victims…” they will unashamedly cry.

    It’s easier than facing the truth.

    Wenger is past it… and he’s been past it for about 10 years.

    #WengerOut
    #NoNewContract

  94. Marko

    Could you imagine if we got Kante last summer. Even after we got Xhaka there was the argument that we still needed someone like Kante and him and Granit could of been the perfect partnership. Unfortunately with Wenger he’s always taking chances on mediocre players like Coquelin and Ramsey coming good.

  95. GoonGoonerGone

    Perhaps it was Ty flying the Respect Plane. When we went down to 3-1, he was on the verge of flying low to scoop Wenger away until he saw Claude’s shiny head blinding his his eyes.

  96. Dissenter

    Leeds,
    I hope the Chilean FA return the favor and blast Wenger for messing up Alexis ankle.
    That’s what Wenger did to them in November by publicly saying that “it would be suicidal decision” for them to play Sanchez.

  97. Olumide

    Dissenter
    100% false
    Arsenal fans don’t have a say.

    It seems you’ve forgotten that Kroenke or the board don’t pay for fans’ seat in the stadium. Arsenal fans pay and directly grow Kroenke’s investment. Then complain that Kroenke doesn’t love Arsenal. Kroenke loves his investment and when you grow it, nothing else matter to him

  98. Dissenter

    This Bhoufal has been a big waste of money for Southampton. I’m pretty sure a 16 year old from their academy can do a much better job.

  99. Elmo

    Dissenter

    The kind of people who are in the boardrooms of groups generating $420bn of revenue have no interest in football fan protests. They might invest some leisure time in following a sport; they don’t invest time in sports fan activism. In my experience they dip in and out for the occasional match; they don’t read team blogs and forums or investigate what is happening at the fan grassroots.

    You’re also conflating Sir Chips Keswick, board member at Arsenal, with the jobs of his relatives. Sir Chips Keswick doesn’t work for Jardines, though his son is a Deputy MD there. There’s absolutely no reason anyone at Arsenal would have a group holding company company credit card for Jardines.

    I wouldn’t dismiss the idea that someone at Arsenal hired the second plane, though I think it’s unlikely, but the notion that it was legitimately hired by someone in the name of the Jardines holding company is laughable.

  100. Dissenter

    Olumide,
    The super large TV deal-money has negated the power of the fans.
    Besides the Emirates if filled with tourist who can easily buy a season ticket and attend only 10 games over the entire season.
    Domestic fans don’t have that much power. They don’t have any say in Wenger’s leaving or staying.

  101. Leedsgunner

    It’s a shame that a limp forgettable game was most likely Alexis’ last game in an Arsenal shirt.

    Unless Wenger goes from Arsenal I cannot see Sanchez staying on.

    Not at all.

    Thank you Alexis for the fight and the drive you showed on the pitch. It was clear to all that you left everything on the field. You deserved a better manager than Wenger.

  102. BigLee

    The Venerated AFC Business Model: Multi-Level Teet Suckling

    Kroenke is at the top of this teet suckling structure, in the model at least. Next level suckler is Wenger who is suckling at the teet of Stan. Below him is Gazidis and BOD members who are suckling at the teet of Wenger. They know that Wenger has been given exclusive suckling rights to Stan so if they throw Wenger under the bus, their suckling days are over. Change precipitated by a manger change may result in a dissolution of this suckling model. Gazidis and the BOD are probably scared to death that they may have to actually run the business of the club which so far they have shown no competency to perform.

    A flawed assumption in this model is that Kroenke is at the top of this model and suckles no one. In fact, he is suckling the teets of season ticket holders, Premier League TV money, CL qualification money, and sponsors. So toppling this structure can be done in two ways – from the top or the bottom.

    Rather than attacking Wenger, which achieves nothing because his suckling position is protected from both above and below, attack Gazidis and the BOD and hound them out. If a new CEO and BOD come in that have genuine love for the club and courage in their own convictions to not need to suckle for a living, then the structure can change.

    Attacking Stan is pointless because he is protected from the bottom by Wenger and Wenger’s sucklers. No, the way to topple the regime from the top is to not assume that Stan is at the top and instead go after his aforementioned sucklees. One sucklee to Stan that will be dropping out next season is Champions League money. Another will partially go away with the drop in PL money for finishing in 7th or 8th place. These too sucklees are inanimate anyway and can’t be attacked. So that leaves season ticket holders who unfathomably appear to enjoy having their teet suckled by Stan and won’t give up anytime soon. A lost cause.

    The only real option then are the sponsors. To simplify the process, let’s target the key ones – Puma and Emirates. Instead of the tired “Wenger out” and “Stan must go” banners, how about “Puma exploits child labour to make crap stuff” or “Emirates provides THE worst travel experience” or “I got explosive diorrhea from eating in Emirates first class”? Better yet, tie these banners to airplanes. Do this relentlessly at every match and watch things change?

    (Legal disclaimer: The “teet suckling” referred to above is purely metaphorical. The author has no knowledge as to whether literal teet suckling takes place at the club!)

  103. Dissenter

    I’m glad that the top four are separating from the pack.
    Wenger is now depending on beating city in the FA cup semis.

  104. Elmo

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3125482/arsene-wenger-is-taking-the-p-out-of-arsenal-fans-by-continuing-his-selfish-soap-opera/

    Great piece,

    “ARSENE WENGER is taking the p*** out of the Arsenal supporters now.

    While a famous club is crumbling around him, the Gunners boss is indulging his own vanity by extending the soap opera of his contract decision.

    Wenger revealed after the shambolic 3-1 defeat at West Brom that he already knows what he is going to be doing next season – but with a smirk said the rest of the world will find out soon.

    The Frenchman is enjoying this now, massaging his ego by playing games with the journalists who have been quizzing him over his future for months.

    But here’s the thing Arsene, while you play games with the media you are destroying the fabric of the club you love.”

  105. Cesc Appeal

    Excellent article from The Sun, you knew Wenger’s ego would adore the attention this season, if you needed anymore evidence that this man is principally concerned with himself this entire pathetic saga is the conclusive piece.

    I know, you will all find out soon, whilst the club tears itself apart from the inside, f**k you Wenger, you’ve descended into the realms of piece of shittery now, I’m not one to abuse Wenger or call him nasty names a lot, I’m critical of him certainly, but I think he’s behaving like a complete twat now, and Kroenke and Gazidis need to take a long hard look in the mirror as well.

    The club is a joke in the eyes of the elite watching on, a near seventy year old engaging in a year long vanity project and an impotent board watching on hanging on his every work, what a fucking shambles.

    This season is going to have lasting effects on the fan base I think, the club, even with Wenger gone, have eroded a lot of the trust the fans had in them and its going to take a long time to win the back.

  106. Nickw

    Wenger is too arrogant and too greedy not sign a new deal. He has no shame and takes no responsibility so of course he’s going to do what’s best for him and that’s take the money. The board have to wake up to the fact that the club is on the edge of a cliff and unless they withdraw that contract offer Wenger will happily take it over the edge. I have no faith that they will see sense as only an idiot would have offered him a new contract in the first place and idiots don’t often see sense.

  107. azed

    Anyone watching the City vs Pool game and wondering when we would have a proper manager so we can look forward to fixtures like this with hope of a win and instead of our prayers for a decent loss?

  108. Alexanderhenry

    Dave

    There is plenty of cash at the club. Like at all clubs though, it is up to the owner or in our case, majority shareholder, how much of it is spent.

  109. Barney75

    Wenger will most likely leave it until April Fools Day before announcing he’s staying. No one will know if it’s true or false at first and then he’ll come out with that stupid fucking smirk on his face and say the decision was never in doubt.

  110. Dream10

    Enjoyable match between City-Liverpool so far. City have dominated. Some lovely triangles on the left side. The final ball is lacking at the moment. Liverpool’s best hope for a goal is a sucker punch from Coutinho or Mane against the run of the play.

    good skill and unbelievable athleticism from Wijnaldum to nutmeg Toure and make space to fashion a chance.

  111. Alexanderhenry

    Hillwood

    No,

    but it was down to stan that the club implemented a damaging and unnecessary austerity period which saw arsenal break even and sometimes make profits in transfer windows as well as selling off its best players.

  112. Richard robbins

    Yesterday was an indictment on the players. Yes yes all the Wenger stuff. But Ramsey has for two years kicked 20′ over on open nets fortwo years; we have played with no midfield since Santi went down. Walcott and chamberlain come and go with who knows? There is no game plan. This was the most predictable game strategy to prepare agInst. What did we do? How did we prepare? No one cared. It was heart breaking to see no spirit. We always wait an extra year to get a player we need. A most sad state of affairs.

  113. tunnygriffboy

    Cesc

    I agree. The longer this goes on the worse the trust will become and the worse things will get between the fans. It’s gone beyond now. We have a chance if he goes and announces it soon. Players may want to stay and play and fight for a new manager. Arsenal under a progressive coach could be a good place to play football.

    If he stays our better players will undoubtedly leave. Add to that serious fan discontent. It’s still bubbling under atm. I think a lot of people are waiting for him to announce he’s leaving before they go completely Red Army Faction. If he stays fissures will open to such an extent it will take years to close. All trust would be gone.

    I have a mate who’s so pro Wenger. Even he said yesterday it’s time.

  114. Globalgunner

    Stan took over in 2011, i think. We had been doing our rubbish long before that. Accumulating 200m in the process

  115. Dream10

    This is the best PL match of 2017. Great flow to the contest and tremendous approach play from City. Liverpool doing well to hold on

  116. Cesc Appeal

    Tunny

    I think there might be something to these one year deal rumours, because I genuinely think the club and Wenger are that scummy, and have that level of contempt for the fans they will think they are pulling the wool over their eyes and that we will not see it as the rolling type deal that it would be.

    The problem is Wenger has been mollycoddled for years by the media and the fans, he has not been treated like a real manager for about a decade, only in the last couple of seasons has he had it like any other manager would, and he does not like it at all.

    That is why I think those John Cross articles about the club being ‘shocked’ by the fan reaction were genuine, they don’t have a clue anymore, they just know what Wenger tells them and Wenger thinks the fan will just follow him, whatever he says whatever he deems as success, that is what the fans will think.

    The club is rapidly descending into becoming a real piece of shit, the next four weeks are absolutely massive for Arsenal, are we sports club, are we club that is ambitious and belongs to the fans ultimately, or are we a soulless, pussified, greedy, amateur, shambolic, old man’s plaything?

    There is no argument for keeping Wenger and claiming Arsenal are interested in being a football club.