Arsene Wenger position untenable, but suspicions he will shamelessly sign on during break

by & filed under News Review.

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I have to say, I really didn’t expect to lose to WBA yesterday. I thought Wenger was going to juice his team up for the usual winning streak that secures our place in the top 4. I was actually hoping for a bit of respite this week, because if I’m totally honest, I’m finding this especially draining, and I’m sure you are too.

I think we’re witnessing more than a ‘unique blip’ in our season, we’re seeing the players down tools and give up on the manager. They don’t care. Not one of them. They are a big chunk of the blame, you can’t ignore performances like that, but you have to look at the root cause, and that’s Arsene Wenger.

If the players don’t care, that’s because the manager hasn’t given them reason to. That means they’re not motivated to succeed. That’s because they’ve lost faith in their leader. How can people not empathise? Wenger offers up the most basic of preparation for games, in a world where players know and have experienced exactly how proper managers operate. He’s struggling to make players better, he can’t fathom a setup that works for the talent he has at his disposal, and there’s nothing surprising about how we play.

I know people love Xhaka, he’s a beautiful passer of the ball, but someone is going to have to work out a way of making the most of his passing skills, whilst covering off for his chronic lack of pace and physicality. You can’t keep on overlooking these issues because teams are exploiting his weaknesses every week. Considering how we play, I really don’t understand how a manager of 21 years experience in the english league didn’t look for a more mobile / powerful regista when scouting.

Danny Welbeck, bless him, really isn’t much of a striker. His goal record over the last 5 years is pretty abysmal and I’m not sure he’s going to blossom into the Thierry Henry figure we hoped he’d become. What is going on with Mustafi? The man’s value is dropping faster than an antisemitic Youtuber on a meltdown. Even Laurent K, our mighty leader at the back, is mailing it in. How many times was he beaten in the air yesterday? He’s a liability at the moment and he’s certainly not showing he’s our best defender.

These issues, in my opinion, stem from a culture of celebrated mediocrity. Sport cannot operate on a socialist model. That’s not how competition works. If you’re paying 75% of the team more than they’re worth and 25% less than they’re worth, what are people working towards? If you tell the media top 4 is a trophy, how do you think that makes elite athletes feel? If there are no consequences to bad performances or poor careers, how can you expect players to have fire in their bellies?

All of these problems have been widely reported on by Le Grove for many years, I just think the consequences are blossoming hard now, like we predicted at the start of the season. Sad part is I, along with many others thought the problem Wenger would have would be the uprising of the new breed of managerial talent. Turns out, the house of cards collapsed without much pressure from anyone else. It looks like a simple case of – if you pump enough shit into the mixer, at some point, you’re going to get shit out – or something like that.

So what to think?

Well, like they tell me at my AA meetings – ‘things have to get worse, before they get better’ – so yesterday’s result, though horrific to watch was kind of what we needed. Wenger is a boxer who’s been knocked through the ropes, he’s on the referee’s count, question is, do you want to see him get up off the floor?

The manager didn’t really give much away after the game, tellingly, Sky nor NBC grilled him on his future. The writers did though, and this is what he said.

“I know what I will do”

“You will soon know”

“Today I do not necessarily worry about that. We are in a unique bad patch we never had in 20 years.”

“We lose game after game at the moment and that for me is much more important than my future.”

It’s very difficult to analyse what he’s saying here. His body language was very calm, almost bordering on arrogant. He didn’t look broken, he looked pretty at ease. You can read that as the mental lift of knowing he’s calling it a day, or you could read it as the arrogance of a man who knows he’s staying because he calls the shots.

The worrying thing is the lack of analysis of the situation. Wenger thinks the annual collapse is unique to the last ten years, when it’s anything but. The fact he’s suggesting it’s a blip sounds like he’s making excuses as to why staying on or the reason he should be a given a second chance (he has cash in the bank with Stan as it were).

However, if he were to stare at this mess in the cold light of day, it’s impossible for him to look at the problems he’s suffering and think he can solve them.

‘Bayern, PSG, Real, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and City have all changed managers since Arsenal last won away at a top 8 side in the league.’

Look at that statistic. It’s appalling. Then look at the away fans, the most loyal Wenger lovers of us all, waving banners and chanting songs about moving the manager on. Then look online and the seething rage among Arsenal fans the world over. Read what the pundits are saying. Look at the attitude of the players. Look at who wants to leave the club this summer. What will sponsors think as we negotiate a new deal for our shirt? It is beyond the pale that this decision is in his hands, but it is.

… and look, you need to stop blaming Gazidis for this. I’m pretty sure that the whispers I’d heard about him being cool with Wenger were off the mark, and I shouldn’t be surprised, he was pretty pissed off when I met with him in the Podolski days. He and his commercial team will know that Wenger is a car crash and they’ll no doubt want him gone.

The real problem started with David Dein introducing a horror of an investor to the club without doing his due diligence. Stan K is an embarrassment to sport and the billionaires club. How can his ego deal with the fact all his franchises are tanking? There’s a tweet going around about his hockey team yesterday,

‘Looks like the Avs (Avalanches) have given up’

But here’s the problem, because his clubs are such a mess elsewhere, Arsenal look like a volcano of glory. Our owner has such low standards and such a lack of interest in winning, he actually thinks Wenger is a good investment. So until that bond of love is broken, Wenger calls the shots.

That’s why flying banners, though a bit cringe, are important. Because Wenger needs to see these things, because left to his own devices, he’ll stay on forever.

However, he must know what’s coming. We’re going to get torn apart by City when we return from the break. Then we have a bit of respite in the league. Then things get really salty. City at Wembley, Spurs away, then United at home. We could finish 8th if we’re not careful. Everton just drew level on points with us.

That’s why I’m very worried about Wenger using this two-week break to announce that he’s shamelessly signed on. When the narrative is dead, he can let our season implode with shellshocked fans that are numb because they can’t quite believe what’s happened, versus them hounding him out of the club with more and more aggression building as we do worse and worse.

The only hope I hold out for him quitting is that the cold hard facts are too difficult to ignore. There is no argument for him to stay. He should know that and he should leave with a bit of dignity. Because this isn’t a blip, this is the start of a collapse that is going to get more and more expensive to fix the longer Stan K lets it go on for.

Another sad day for Arsenal, let’s hope next week isn’t a sad start to the next two years.

Right, see you in the comments.

 

455 Responses to “Arsene Wenger position untenable, but suspicions he will shamelessly sign on during break”

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  1. Jeff

    I don’t think Kroenke gives a flying fuck about Arsenal being mid-table if it’s still making money. If that means keeping Wenger and not rocking the steady cash-cow, he’s all for it. Kroenke just wants it to carry on as usual. He has absolutely zero interest in ideas like “winning” or “glory”. Those things are incidental and secondary. A balance sheet is much more interesting and important to him than the fans or their aspirations.

  2. EdTheRed

    He is defo signing a new contract, I suspect for 4 years. Arsenal as football club is finished, such a shame.

  3. gambon

    The manager is the cause of our demuse, and clearly he has to go. He really is finished in football.

    However, yesterday showed us that we basically need to replace the entire squad.

    If I was Allegri (or whoever) I would offer Alexis what he wants and put every single member of the squad up for sale.

    If they dont want to try, they can go and play for Everton & Stoke.

    Ive been reading Alex Fergusons book. You look at how he ran Man Utd and realise Wenger does everything wrong. Literally everything.

    Feeguson says you have to build a completely fresh squad every 4 years, and the only long termers are outstanding club legends.

    Who are our long termers:

    Gibbs
    Koscielny
    Ramsey
    Walcott

    So the long term health an direction of our club is built around these 4 nobodies. Its absolutely shocking.

    Ferguson talks about the need to bring constant changes in at coaching level to bring new ideas. We have had the same core coaching team for 20 years.

    Ferguson talks about the importance of a good captain, that basically represents the club and the management on the pitch. Wenger just plays spin the bottle every week in training to select his next captain

    We are an absolute mess of a club right now.

    Even Thierry Henry, a man who loves the club and fiercly loyal to Wenger, seemed in shock yesterday.

  4. Jeff

    Mick,

    In all honesty I don’t believe that dropping out of top four is as calamitous to the board or the owner as some fans think. I believe contingency plans to mitigate the loss of CL money have been in place for some time. Dropping out of top four once in 21 years will not be considered as a major event.

    My gut feeling is that the board and owner have been considering CL qualification as an over-achievement all these years and slipping once is no big deal. The status quo is all about keeping the status quo – sad I know but that’s where we are.

  5. Adam A. Carbarundum

    No Pedro, there is only one man, in the eyes of a Wenger and the board, who can right the ship and take the club to glory, and that nan is…Arsene Wenger!

    Come on, it’s as obvious as the nose on your face and sickingly we all know it will be presented as such. After all, they went through an exhaustive search and all.

    You couldnt make this up if you tried. It’s going to play out exactly as I describe. And everyone here knows it. Sickening!

  6. Guns of Hackney

    I echo the blog and the posters. Wenger simply has nowhere left to go in football or life, so it’s Arsenal or bust.

    Does anyone think that 10-2 or 3-1 had any effect on the bank balance? The answer is no. Kronke is a business man and making money his his bag and Arsenal, for all the bullshit, makes money.

    Perhaps the sponsors will look elsewhere but let’s not forget that another 100 will step in. Arsenal are still a big club, London based and have a demented fan base who still idolise the train wreck that is Wenger.

    Never assume that what is happening now is wengers endgame…it isn’t. Psychopaths like him are immune to criticism. However, perhaps his followers above him like Ivan and Kronke do care and the mounting pressure could force their hand. I doubt it but we hope.

    Stop going to games. Nothing looks worse than empty seats on tv.

  7. Barney75

    Stop giving credence to the idea that there is some sort of socialist structure at Arsenal. Lenin’s idea of socialism was a society where there were no rich or poor…how the fuck can Wenger then bang on about socialism when the twat takes home £8m per annum.

  8. Paulinho

    The fact Wenger keeps on trying to find an appropriate time to announce his contract extension, but he can’t because we keep losing, is extremely humorous.

    He is being foiled by his own ineptitude in that regard, which is rather fitting and sums up the fraud quite nicely, and in that sense he has reaped what he has sowed.

  9. Whitty

    The club I have supported for 45 years is dead.

    What the fuck am I supporting here.

    Fuckin losers.

    I used to buy programmes home and away for wholes season’s .Not bought one for over 6 years now.

    Arsenal shirts well you can fuck yourself.Waste of money.

    Most people I know wear the old shirts….only kids wear the Rip off new ones.

    The club can fuck off.

    We need to withdraw from football and become a full time bank.

    Wenger out.

  10. Ekpang Bisong

    Found this on football365.com It would be understandable if they are low in confidence – most teams who had lost their last three on the road would be. But Wenger’s players, who with 73 per cent of the possession managed as many shots on target as their fans had planes in the sky, looked bored and disinterested before appearing somewhat confused to be so comprehensively beaten. This Wenger character is clueless and shameless and Will sign a new contract.

  11. Pierre

    Wenger will announce that he is leaving at the end of the season… Probably Monday…. I don’t think it was a look of arrogance it was more like a weight lifting off his shoulders as it has finally dawned on him that it’s time to go

    The players do care, look at their faces at the end of the match… Shell-shocked…. They seem to have lost faith in Wenger.
    Have never seen that before…..

    With a new boss we will hopefully rid ourselves of all the negativity surrounding the club from the media and some fans. Also a new boss may also change the attitude of refs towards the arsenal….. Yesterday’s ref was abysmal…. Sanchez was kicked out of the game. They kicked him all through the first half and the ref basically ignored it..
    . Of course, le grovellers would not want to discuss the poor refereeing, I understand that but I think their should be a balance and if the ref is shit then let’s say the ref is shit.. It doesn’t mean you are an AKB or an WOB OR even a KNOB… it means your telling it as it is….

  12. Adam A. Carbarundum

    The ref may have been shit yesterday, but the players were shittier. Head on over to Untold to get your shit refereeing stats, they live for it.

    And for the record Pierre, Wenger announcing he is leaving on Monday…which year?

  13. HillWood

    I’m beginning to think the players concede from corners deliberately..
    It really is like watching the under 10s (Shearer)

  14. Dusty Kart

    What a terribly time to be a Arsenal fan! rival fans mocking us, chants of Wenger to stay, planes flying overhead, all thanks to the one and only legend that is Arsene Wenger.

  15. Vintage Gun

    Im surprised no one picked up on Wengers post match conference regarding Sanchez’s injury.

    He basically said that Sanchez was in no fit condition to come out for the 2nd half but Sanchez insisted and persisted to play on (before being subbed after limping around. Then Arsene goes on to say his ankle is in a bad way and there could be ligament damage.

    This just shows how little control he has over his squad. Too weak to tell an clearlyinjured player to come straight off.

  16. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Says a lot that likely this teams best performance this season came against Lincoln. Something also tells me that Theo, Ox, Ramsey and the boys took a boatload of selfies too!

    Rank amateurs the lot of them. Gutless and spineless all. Lead by example of their manager of course. Blow it up!

  17. SUGA3

    Pierre,

    Give me a fucking break, shellshocked, my arse. Conceded two identical goals that would be inexcusable in the Sunday league, the third was a clown shoes shit show too. They should be docked wages for this pathetic display.

    I feel sorry for Sanchez, not only busting his gut. getting shit kicked out of him, but also hung out to dry the way Arshavin and a few other outspoken players were.

    Wenger is a dead man walking, but has not shame and will be here next season, the cunt. Wasting everyone’s time and destroying careers of footballers that actually have a bit of talent. Think Vela, think Campbell. Good on them they are out of this fucking mess.

  18. Obum

    The point of arsene killing this club is not yelling at people properly. He has succeeded in dividing the club by 2 serious fault lines. Seeing 2 different banners fly past yesterday points to the fuckery the AKBs will show to a new manager. They will feel hurt, just like the dems feel in the US and will seize every opportunity to try to pull down the new manager. If he really loves the club he should have announced his resignation since the 1st leg at Bayern. But he wants to tear the whole club down. At this point maybe shd stay another 4 years till the dim fit that played for that ‘in Wenger we trust’ flight realizes the epic f*ck we are in

  19. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Gutless bunch if players. It’s a country club atmosphere at AFC. What should any of us expect? They spend more time taking stupid selfies than mustering up an I do give a care. A manager who can’t even accomplish the basic fundamentals of the game cause he’s too busy doing a hundred other imaginary things at the same time. Honestly, Arsenal supporters have to be the most gullible bunch if morons going to continually accept the garbage that is put before them.

    Shame on Wenger and the players? Not likely, more like shame on ourselves!

  20. Rambo Ramsey

    Hahahahaaa, fresh out of Untold that referee excuse eh Pierre? You’re doing Attwood and the rest of the deluded brigade proud.

    Also, tell us more about this weight that’s been burdening poor Wenga? It couldn’t be the expectations cause you brainwashed mongs think Arsenal haven’t been underachieving in any way.

  21. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Two stories that won’t go away. What’s the deal with Perez not playing? And just how weak and feeble is Ozil? Bad enough he disappears when the going gets tough, but now he’s taken to calling in sick on a regular basis too? More to both these guys than is being let on.

  22. Adam A. Carbarundum

    I’d love to see what Perez can really do if given a spell. Equally, Ozil can go anytime he wants – waste of a roster place and his money can be spent more wisely. He’s as useless as they come and Mourinho was right to call him out.

  23. shad

    Wenger is too arrogant to fall on his sword (should have gone at the end of the 08/09 season or worst case after the FA cup win over Hull) but those are all bygones now. Gazidis is a spineless, toothless quack of a CEO since he can’t muster the courage to sack Wenger. Kroenke is basically a tw@t soaked in Loser money.
    A trifector of evil.
    We are stuck with this grim picture for the next 2 years.
    My advice to any fellow gooner: Find another hobby besides watching Arsenal’s carcass be run further into the abyss of mediocrity it already is in. Go fishing, take your dog for a walk, make love to your woman, take an expedition to a new country. Rediscover life.

  24. SUGA3

    There is just no discipline within the squad, no Vieira to cock slap dissenters. Simple. Disciplinary issues existed for ages now, with the likes of Alex Song being allowed to do whatever they fuck they wanted on and off the pitch.

    The problems we are in now are the direct outcome of years of neglect in this respect. It’s not a crisis, it’s a result. Told ya.

  25. shad

    @Obum,

    Strong rumour is that the club paid for the Pro-Wanker plane banner. I doubt that salmon eating fuck face Chris could spend a quid despite his constant hard on for Wenger.

  26. Adam A. Carbarundum

    Odd, where’s Weldonkeeo? Wallbake? And pretty much any other Wenger apologist? Oh that’s right, licking their wounds. Only thing tougher than being an Arsenal supporter these days is being an Arsene Wenger supporter.

  27. Adam A. Carbarundum

    It’s okay Zoran, that Wenger has decided his future. Cause so have I. My future is one without Arsene Wenger. And that required no patience or time at all!

  28. HillWood

    Is Steve Bould employed just to sit next Wenger and look bored?
    Surely such a great defender cannot be coaching this shower of shit ?

  29. Vince

    For once I stumbled on Untold and oh my world what part of their brains are they using over there. Below is a seriously sick comment to an even dater post.

    “Andrew Crawshaw
    19/03/2017 at 10:08 am
    Tony,

    One thing is certain in my mind that Arsenal will never be allowed to win the League playing attractive attacking football. If we are to win the league we will have to abandon our philosophy of playing attractive Continental style football including their hold over the PGMO. We will have to embrace all of the black arts employed so successfully by Chelsea, Man United and Spurs. For me that would be a step too far and I’m not at all sure IO would wand to watch that kind of cheating soul-less football on a weekly basis.”

    We all must have done something so wrong in our former lives to deserve getting stuck with these morons.

  30. Zoran

    Dear Adam, I feel same as you, but if he decided, there is nothing to do. We are now like Don Cichot was that time fighting against the wind mills.

  31. Wenker-wanger

    April 1st is the deadline for wenger to announce his decision. That’s according to the back pages of a Sunday paper.
    Accepting its validity, this means that there are no opportunities for a Wenger get – out – of – jail – card. His announcement is on the back of a disgraceful showing and some well publicised banners.
    To stay really is an absurdity.
    To be given the choice to stay is like asking a lunatic if they would like to perform brain surgery on your kids.
    But wenger is clearly a madman and normal logic doesn’t apply.

  32. Dolomite

    Please, please DONT BLAME THE PLAYERS.

    Stay WOKE, Stay FOCUSED…!!!!!

    ITS ALL ABOUT WENGER.

    WENGER OUT.

    Our fans are actually worse that Wenger when it comes to looking for an excuse – or maybe its subliminal conditioning over 13 years of abject failure

    If it’s not

    The Referee
    It’s The Fans
    Or The Board
    Or The Management Team
    Or The Owner
    Or The AKBS
    Or The WOBs
    Or The Corporates
    Or The Bully Boy Tactics (Stoke Bolton WBA Sunderland Everton ad nauseam)
    Or Fatigue
    Or Too Long between games

    All the above are EXCUSES that he’s run out of.

    WENGER OUT.

  33. Alexanderhenry

    Pedro

    ‘Stan K is an embarrassment to sport and the billionaires club. How can his ego deal with the fact all his franchises are tanking?’

    Amen to that.

    Stan’s ‘ego’ is an enigma and I’ve been wondering exactly why he owns so many ‘franchises’ and yet seems so unconcerned with winning.

    If you or I were billionaires and decided to buy a football club or a basketball team, we’d be in it for the glory. Stan clearly isn’t. His only concern is profit.
    That much is clear.

    This would make sense if sports was his only source of income. However, he is already hugely wealthy from real estate and the fact that his wife is a ‘Wallmart’, so to be honest, I remain utterly mystified by his motives.

  34. Cesc Appeal

    This rumour of a one year extension actually makes a lot of sense when you consider the weasel of a club we are dealing with here.

    We know there is no infrastructure at the club, we know there are no football men, we know they just want to keep things as they are, they are quite happy and we know Wenger is the only one who is going to make that decision, a stubborn, egotistical, shameless, deluded individual.

    They also know there is no way they can announce a two year deal right now, so a one year deal will look like a compromise as if ‘one and done.’ But it won’t be, it will literally be a delaying tactic until next season where they will have learnt their lesson and will announce his next one year extension in December or something.

    This club has no balls, no foresight, there was clearly no planning going on to replace Wenger and all the eggs were in the Wenger basket which is apparent as you watch them comically scramble for a good window to announce he is staying, and Wenger is every inch deluded, egotistical and shameless enough to stay as long as there are not pitchforks and torches, he will take apathy, he will take unhappiness and a desire for change because he comes first.

    This whole situation is partly down to the Emirates move, large part down to Wenger, and partly down to the fans who have mollycoddled him for years and allowed this situation to develop at the club.

  35. Emiratesstroller

    There is a maxim “horses for courses”.

    In the case of Arsenal there is only one way that the team can and will play and that is the Wenger way.

    Whenever an opposition manager puts 9 or 10 players behind the ball with
    counter attack strategy and of course a large number of physically strong hard tackling 6′ plus players in their team we know that Arsenal are going to struggle if not lose.

    Sadly for Wenger there are an increasing number of managers and teams
    in EPL who understand this and are playing against us with that system and
    growing level of success.

    The problem is further compounded because when we do play against world class football playing teams such as Bayern we are also struggling against these teams as well.

    The bottom line is that Arsenal are now a very average team with a large number of grossly overpaid players. It is becoming increasingly difficult to
    offload the dross and in the case of the small number of genuine talented
    players such as Ozil and Sanchez we are landing up with a situation that they will leave on transfer fees below current market rates.

    The problems at Arsenal are not exclusive to Wenger even if he is the primary cause of the current mess in the club.

    The people who are responsible for sorting out the mess are the major shareholder, board of directors and CEO. These are the only people at the club who can initiate change by removing Wenger.

    Supporters can of course have a “nuisance value”, but only if the above people and in particular the major shareholder are listening. Sadly Kroenke lives on his ranch in Texas and I doubt that he is remotely interested in what we have to say.

    The only thing which will impact on him is if there is a massive decline in the revenues and value of the club. That is likely only to come if we fail to
    qualify for let’s say three years, sponsorship dries up and there is a massive
    decline in number of season tickets/tickets sold.

    My guess is that Kroenke/Gazidis are prepared to allow the current impasse to last one season without taking drastic action so long as losses are
    manageable ie revenues do not decline more than £20-30 million.

    They will accept the offload of Ozil and Sanchez as a point of principle selling both of them this summer and buying as replacements cheaper players. Several other players will also be sold to to lighten our payroll.

    However, I suspect that Wenger will remain as the “queen bee” as the perennial survivor as Pedro has intimated.

  36. PieAFC

    That fucking spineless man. If he dares to announce an extension after the England game knowing he will receive no problem until we play are next game.

    He probably thinks our knowingly bad form is because he isn’t said he’s staying.

    WHEN THE PROBLEM IS ACTUALLY HIM.

    Fuck this man. Does my head in. Never been so angry knowing what’s going on at our club.

  37. Who knows

    I don’t understand how can you constantly protect gazidis. His no longer new the to the club, our commercials are poor compare to other teams and he hasn’t got the balls to manage stans asset as a CEO should. He shoukd revoke wengers offer nd run the club. If he is powerless as you say then he’s not a good CEOAMD adds no benefit whilst taking home 3mil a year.

  38. gonsterous

    please wake me up from this nightmare. Wenger should say he’s leaving and announce allegri will take over. the players and the fans will be lifted and more motivated to succeed

  39. Wenker-wanger

    On a different note, it was good to see Chelsea and particularly Costa giving it back to the stoke bully boys.
    Hughes admitted he had ordered a physical test to chelsea .
    Conte said we had to fight…..what a manager!…has he any flaws?
    BTW I do not like Chelsea, but credit where due.

  40. Marc

    Emirates

    My guess is that Kroenke/Gazidis are prepared to allow the current impasse to last one season without taking drastic action so long as losses are
    manageable ie revenues do not decline more than £20-30 million.

    We miss out on top 4 and that’s £30 million in CL TV and prize money add on £3 million in gates receipts per match and your £20 or £30 million is gone like that.

  41. Relieable Sauce

    Not feeling drained like Pedro, I’m actually excited that we are at least going to get a decision one way or the other.

    The BoD and owner really have no excuse to extend Wengers contract now. The majority of fans have accepted that he can no longer take AFC forward and now its time for IG to step up and do the right thing for the club, or tender his resignation.

    Offering Wenger a one year deal would be beyond pathetic and show them to be either completely inept, or an accessory in a scam of epic proportions.

  42. Emiratesstroller

    Marc

    The loss of that revenue will be compensated by transfers. Arsenal will be selling players and reducing our wage bill which includes CL bonuses.

  43. Marc

    Looking at our remaining league games (I cannot see us getting past City in the Cup so that’s done as well) and outside of Sunderland at home I just don’t see any matches that I’m confident of winning. City (H), Palace (A), Spuds (A), Utd (H), Stoke (A) and Everton (H) look like almost guaranteed loses with the current form, attitude and morale.

    Can’t see how Wenger can go into next season with what’s going on.

  44. Marc

    Emirates

    Selling off our best players will see us finish lower down the table meaning the loss of CL income is a regular thing, no “star” players and not being a “top” club affects sponsorship income.

    Why do you think ManU have been chucking money into transfers recently? You think balancing the books will see the ship steady? Kroenke might not see it before it happens but he’ll notice pretty fucking quickly once it’s underway.

  45. R.S.P.C.Arsenal

    Adam

    Had a look at untold yesterday
    They are allowing more anti wenger comments to be published ,

    I think he will stay or move upstairs …..

    His ego won’t allow a new man to come on an do one of the two things he had never done

    Win a European trophy
    Win back to back titles .

  46. WestLondonGoon

    “We are in a unique bad patch that we never had in 20 years, we lose game after game at the moment and for me that is much more important than my future,” s

    “There is no other way than fighting until the last day of the season and then if it is not good enough we have to take the consequences. Finishing in the top four will be very difficult now. One day, if we don’t do it, people will enjoy it again.”

    So that’s what Arsene thinks, it’s unique, like we’ve never been here before, perhaps he’s right, we’ve not had these exact circumstances but we’ve been in very similar circumstances. But this time it feels different; several people on here were going through the remaining fixtures yesterday and were putting us down for 1, maybe 2, victories from those games. Perhaps they were being pessimistic or perhaps they were being realists, only time will tell, but if that were to play out it would mean that we would end up with 2 victories from our last 16 or so league games this season. That is relegation form in anyone’s book.

    In his arrogance, he probably thinks he can turn it around, but this is now a position he has never been in…..obviously we are not going to get relegated so the end game is a little different, but to turn around the fortunes of a club so totally out of form, out of shape and short on confidence, requires a whole new skill set to Wenger’s default modus operandi. That’s why the same people always get the manager’s jobs at clubs who are threatened with the drop, your Fat Sams, Warnocks, even your Pulis to some degree. They all have the backs against the wall, shoulders back, chest out, fight em on the beaches spirit; Wenger, and more importantly, this squad, just don’t have the personalities to do this.

    We won’t be fighting for his 4th place trophy, so he can put that out of his mind, he’s in dreamland if he thinks we will be, all the rest of this season will be about saving face. The ridicule from other fans hasn’t finished yet; if he signs what kind of message will that send out to our rivals? We will be the butt of yet more jokes and ‘we want you to stay’ songs. in short, no one will take us seriously as a football club anymore.

    His final dig about missing out on CL this year meaning we should appreciate it more when we do get back in, is abhorent abuse of the fanbase. The thought that we should be just happy to be there, to play at the elite level, without necessarily progressing is the kind of thinking that should be saved for teams for whom qualification is a 5 yearly occurrence. But after so many years of continued dinning at the top table, is it wrong for us as fans to expect some progression? According to Wenger it is. He has given up, simple as; under him, its obvious we are now just a club who should be happy to just take part.

    It is not good enough, he is not good enough.

  47. Wenker-wanger

    In Wenger’s malfunctioning brain, he believes that it could be worse if he resigned!
    He has actually said as much in a press conference a month ago.
    The lunatic really is taking over the asylum.

  48. Alexanderhenry

    Emirates

    Yep,

    It seems very likely we’ll finish out of the top four.

    The reaction of the club will be telling. What they should do if they had any real ambition is spend more as a result.
    What I think they will do is spend less, subtracting lost CL revenues for the overall transfer budget.

    That sums up arsenal.

  49. Zoran

    I wouldn’t be ashamed even if we finish 9th comming May. Chelsea made it, changed the Manager and are already Champions mid March.
    Weget reed of the old cunt, hire Jardim who might bring some excellent Players with him, get reed of the crap ones, even the “british core” except Ox and Jack, imo, and you will see what this guy makes out of the like of Ox, Wilshere, Holding, Chambers, Iwobi, Xhaka, Mustafi etc. All still young, very talented, but heading to anonimity under the actual Regime.
    He has done it wherever he was, Braga, Olympiacos, now Monaco, bringing the from the second French Division and look where are they now. Young Manager, always forcing young, talented players and sticking to his football philosophy. Attacking with full backs, defending with midfielders, pressing the opponent on the whole pitch, scoring in all competition 90 Goals this term, heading the French league, with PSG with 10x the Budget of one “small” Monaco. I hope they will be Champions and hope to see them in the final of CL. Nothing is impossible with those lads.

  50. Marc

    Alexander

    Will a one off boycott work? I’m not so sure as the club will know that ST holders are not going to chuck over £1000 away. I still think an organised protest of fans not taking there seats for the first 10 or 15 minutes will get the attention of the board and is something that can be repeated between now and the end of the season.

  51. bennydevito

    Doesn’t Allegri’s contract end in 2018? If that’s the case then maybe a 1 year extension is the reason?

  52. Marc

    benny

    There’s been a lot of talk about Allegri leaving Juve this summer anyway. It’s very possible that the Allegri rumours are papers putting two and two together and coming up with five.

  53. Alexanderhenry

    Marc

    Any protest is a good thing. Arsenal are a brand and all brands suffer from bad publicity. Especially in this day an age, all and I mean all, businesses are petrified of bad PR

    A lot of arsenal fans think Kroenke is immune to it, but I’m not so sure.

  54. Shaun Wilson

    It’s pretty obvious what is happening at the moment : Rational, football loving, knowledgeable supporters of our club have been slowly worn down by this irrational, solely interested in a steady profit, regime.
    We are losing hope and drifting away. Desperate for change, yesterday I actually stood on my chair and whooped when WBA scored their third – and I wanted more! I’m sure that I am not in my own here as well. If Wenger signs on for 4 more years, I suspect that I and many others like me, won’t even be watching matches next year.
    My team will in effect be lost to me – a bit like when Wimbledon became MK Dons. Unfortunately this truly corrosive situation is sustainable, there are enough people out there who don’t mind the half arsed mediocrity we have been exposed to and the owner and long term dictator are happy to keep peddling this shite. Any body up for forming FC Arsenal of Highbury and starting in the National League,South, Division whatever?

  55. Zoran

    @Alexanderhenry
    The second fan is quit right. All about Money. Next game all out of the Stadium, Ok, not all as there are still those wankers, empty seats, chanting Wenger OUT, and not even the AFC paid plane banner wouldn’t help him.

  56. Alexanderhenry

    Shaun

    You are quite right.

    Another problem is this:

    If arsenal slip into genuine mediocrity and fans start giving up season tickets, because of where the club is and its state of the art stadium, those tickets will be snapped up by corporations.
    The end result is that the stadium will become a quarter or half empty most of the time but with all the tickets paid for.

    A day out at ye olde arsenal soccer team with canapes and a glass of prosecco at half time will become the norm.

  57. Marc

    Alexander

    Your last comment is complete rubbish. Companies aren’t going to pay for upper or lower tier tickets, they’d also need to be able to get 4 or so tickets together. The food and drink service is abysmal. Corporate tickets are club level and the boxes.

  58. kc

    How clever Alexander, did you think of that one all by yourself? Fucking proud mate. Now please tell us all how long you’ve been on the Wenger Out side, is it one month or two? I remember not too long ago you on here spouting Untold nonsense like it was fucking religion. Now I see you’ve switched sides. Little late to the party as usual?

  59. Zoran

    I just hope that the day when AFC sack the 2 cunts, one Yankee, one Frog, the Board will aknowledge and give a Special Thank you to Le Grove and all those lads blogging here.
    If there was no Le Grove, we would have to invent it.

  60. WestLondonGoon

    So it turns out whoever paid for the RespectAW plane yesterday didn’t get the plane company to sign a confidentiality agreement and they have released it was paid for by Jardine Matheson Holdings (Jardines); Chairman and MD of Jardines are Sir Harry Keswick and Ben Keswick.

    So basically the club paid for second plane. You seriously couldn’t make it up.

    They have drawn the ballelines, this is going to get very bitter.

  61. Zoran

    “I would not have liked to go back in the dressing room if I did that and Jens Lehmann was still playing. He would have punched me, hit me round the head, got sent off. He did it before.” (Titi yesterday after the game)
    Where are those days now a day, when Adams was preparing in the Dressing room before the match day as one warrior going to war. No Skipper, only one broken army.
    Wenger wouldn’t be remembered like the one who revolitionalized english Football, but I am afraid, like the one who destroyed one glorious Club.

  62. Relieable Sauce

    WLG

    They really are useless if thats true.
    I guess it must have been Wengers plan then, seeing as they don’t have any of their own.

  63. WestLondonGoon

    Reliable Sauce

    Not the first time they have engaged in such subterfuge, remember the anti Usmanov banner that ‘fans’ displayed in the satdium a few years back?

  64. Bamford10

    Wenger signing for another year is unacceptable and must be opposed vociferously by all. If Pedro is right that he’s going to try to use the international break, then protest must occur at Colney and obviously online. His staying must be made an obvious impossibility from a PR-perspective.

    And a bit of a fuck-off to the fatalists who have been saying the same thing over and over for months now. It is obvious that the protest has accomplished something, and what we don’t need at moment is nay-sayers saying, “oh he’ll sign on no matter what blah blah blah.” Fuck off with that. If fans had listened to that kind of talk, he’d already have signed on for two more years and we wouldn’t have heard a peep from discontented supporters.

    No new contract of any kind. Wenger out.

    _______
    @Arsenal @pumafootball @emirates @Betfair
    @GatoradeUK @CooperTire @Europcar @Vitality_UK

  65. Tomtom

    The really sad thing about Wenger is his interviews after loosing a game.
    He refuses to say what went wrong or take responsibility and simply says that “what is important now is to focus on the next game”.
    That is Wengers biggest failing and a massive failing to repeat over and over.
    Surely a manager should be seething and can’t wait to discuss what went wrong so that it will never happen again!

  66. Bamford10

    Alexander

    “What they should do if they had any real ambition is spend more as a result.”

    Please fuck off. The club spent massively this summer and has spent sizably over the past five seasons. Of course we will need to spend a bit this summer, but the club has shown no aversion to this; the most important thing at moment is replacing Arsene Wenger. Everything else pales in comparison.

  67. Zoran

    I am actualy mad that we dont hear about Usmanov now a days.
    A strong critic of him towards the Board, like in the past, could move that bunch of old cunts to act in one or other way.
    The only movement I have seen from them for months now is the plane banner with “Respect the old cunt”.

  68. Alexanderhenry

    kc

    My position is more nuanced. I am a wenger fan. I think given the resources he’s had to work with over the past ten years, he’s done an excellent job.

    However, he has also allowed Kroenke and co. to perpetuate their scandalous penny pinching and hoodwinking of arsenal fans.

    Wenger leaving will focus all attention on Kroenke. When he does not deliver what arsenal fans expect, they’ll know who to blame.

  69. Relieable Sauce

    WLG

    Nothing would surprise me with this lot, its the same behaviour we are seeing from the looney left in the US.
    Paid activists, propaganda, scare mongering, oppose honest and open debate, supreme hypocrisy…etc.

    Crazy how some cant see it for what it is.

  70. Alexanderhenry

    Zoran

    Usmanov owns a third of arsenal and isn’t even given a seat on the board.
    He is despised and ignored by Kroenke and the rest of the BOD.

    Says all you need to you about Stan’s mentality.

    It also puts arsenal’s ‘self sustainable’ model into somewhat absurd perspective.

    Here we have a club with not one but two billionaire shareholders, charging the highest ticket prices in football, claiming that ‘we can’t compete’ in the transfer market.

  71. Bamford10

    There is nothing wrong with the self-sustaining model. Plenty of money available to compete. Just need a proper modern manager.

  72. Marc

    Alexander

    Have you actually been to the stadium?

    It would take serious refurb work to turn sections of the main tiers into hospitality sections. Why would they do this when they already have two tiers dedicated to it.

    Your anti Kroenke bias is clouding your mind.

  73. Zoran

    A propos “Respect AW” banner:
    We do respect what AW has done for AFC, no doubt about that.
    But, we are saying now: Enough is enough, Wenger Out. And they should respect that

  74. Bamford10

    Reliable

    Stick to football. Your take on US politics is completely wack. You haven’t the faintest idea what you’re talking about.

  75. Bamford10

    Good piece from a writer at the Sun—

    VANITY PROJECT
    Arsene Wenger is taking the piss out of Arsenal fans by continuing his selfish soap opera | Wenger knows where his future lies but smirks as he refuses to tell anyone – and in the meantime the club is falling apart
    ____

    While a famous club is crumbling around him, the Gunners boss is indulging his own vanity by extending the soap opera of his contract decision.

    Wenger revealed after the shambolic 3-1 defeat at West Brom that he already knows what he is going to be doing next season – but with a smirk said the rest of the world will find out soon.

    The Frenchman is enjoying this now, massaging his ego by playing games with the journalists who have been quizzing him over his future for months.

    But here’s the thing Arsene, while you play games with the media you are destroying the fabric of the club you love.

    Saturday at The Hawthorns was the day Arsenal Football Club became a national laughing stock, and when the deep splits among the club’s fan-base was laid out for all to see.

    To see a plane flying overhead demanding Wenger goes is comical enough. But when it is followed minutes later by another plane dragging a banner in support of the beleaguered boss, it’s just humiliating.

    [continued]

  76. Zoran

    Alexanderhenry

    Yes, I know.
    But I know also that the last time he was speaking publicly, we bought Özil and Sanchez. With or without his critics or not, that’s another thing.
    But I know that a word from such an influential man, and he is, also sitting or not in the Board, could make the things moving on from this stage of apathy.
    Not quit sure if he would sympathize with Wenger this time, but, I believe, his words have maybehave also heavyweight like the words from the Fan base.
    As you said, unfortunaly, he is despised and ignored by Kroenke, but let’s hope his son Josh, a part that he is aparently a good friend of Henry, is getting more and more involved in the Business, may turn the page once, and if, he take over. And who knows, maybe he goes Hand in Hand with Usmanov, a proven AFC fan and Lover.

  77. Marc

    Can we stop the Usmanov to the rescue stories.

    The first thing he did when he acquired his share holding was complain that we didn’t pay a dividend.

    There is no proof that he would put his own money into the club and whenever he’s made public comments it’s always been to promote his image to the fans. His constant support of Wenger is just as likely to mean he likes the idea of a manager who would prefer not to spend any money.

  78. Relieable Sauce

    Bamford10 March 19, 2017 12:07:35

    Marc

    Why are you even entertaining this clown? He’s a complete moron. Ignore him.
    —————————————–

    He is just following your lead, moron.

  79. SUGA3

    I have to agree with Reliable Sauce on the subject of the moonbats trying to trample all over the free speech in the universities and other places in the west. If your ideas are so good and noble, then surely, you can defend them in a reasonable two way debate?

  80. Relieable Sauce

    SUGA3

    Surprised he hasn’t called for me to be banned along with all the others he disagrees with.

  81. Tomtom

    Relieable sauce
    I agree, left wing nut jobs love to shut down any views that are contradictory to their own.
    Universities pushing a no platform agenda is the worst type of hypocrisy.

  82. SUGA3

    Sauce,

    It surely is amusing to see riots in Berkeley just because of someone dared to invite someone speaking with a bit of wit and reason. Hard hitting, perhaps, but surely, people can figure stuff out for themselves?

    How is it different from certain books being burned by SA in the 1930s? Reagan was right, when he said the fascism would come under the guise of liberalism.

  83. Dave

    Alex

    I’m a bit astounded that you think Wenger has done “an excellent job over the past 10 years”. No other premier league team, with or without resources, have had regular hiding something like we do. No organization, as highlighted by the 2 headed goals yesterday, playing Sanogo against BM, paying £17 m for Perez and not playing him, persisting with lost causes such as Diaby/ Almunia etc, selling Fabregas at his peak for an undervaluation, selling VP to Man Utd and then taking the lists by saying he knew that would win them the league, wasting money on Mustafi and Xhama, paying wages over and above what players are worth, blaming fans/ refs, admitting that we don’t prepare for the oppositio, failure to do tactics. The list is by no means complete but just what comes to mind. Like it or not, I suspect that most competent manager would get better results with this set of players.

  84. Zoran

    Marc

    Usmanov has unfortunately no power to Change the things inside the Club. He can do it just like we here, outside the Club.

    But, when he is doing something, to his favor or not, he is still at least doing something. And acting theow the media.
    Unlike the Yankee cunt, who is doing nothing except cashing 3 m a year and comming for a CL game at Emirates once a year.

  85. SUGA3

    What is worst is that ripping the piss out of pseudo science like gender studies is ‘hate speech’ now in some places. Orwell was indeed a visionary.

    Westerners have no idea what this entails. I was born and raised in the Eastern bloc. Those countries are still struggling after years of suppressing merit and negative selection. Oh, I am sorry, it is called ‘affirmative action’ these days/

  86. Bamford10

    Suga3

    College kids under the sway of dumb postmodernist identity politics are totally separate from what Reliable is talking about, namely the bogus right-wing claim that mass opposition to Trump somehow consists of paid protestors.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for pseudo-lefts who do not believe in freedom of speech, but I also have no time for right-wing propaganda.

  87. SUGA3

    Bamford,

    The thing is that the same scenario as with Trump/Clinton was tried and tested in Poland after the elections where the banksters’ favourites were beaten by God abiding socialists. Sounds fucked up, I know 😆

    A lot of the protesters back there were eventually linked to certain ‘foundations’ paid for by a few ‘philantropists’. The ones protesting mostly don’t know it, they are mostly good people, but unfortunately made into Lenin’s ‘useful idiots.’

  88. Relieable Sauce

    It is quite astonishing that with all the superior education that the remoaners and liberals have received, they still couldn’t come up with a compelling argument for their causes.
    That in itself should raise a few questions.

  89. Dissenter

    Bamford,
    When it comes to US politics, Reilable is really reLIEable.
    He’s an idiot clown who just repeats cliches.

    ReLIEable stick to Arsenal and stop dabbling into what you know nothing about.

  90. Bamford10

    Suga3

    There is just as much Orwellian language coming from the right, and the worst Orwellian language and behavior continues to come from the state itself (US, Great Britain, France) which now possesses the power to surveil every communication on the planet, drone anyone anywhere, detain without charge or trial, invade this or that country on the basis of outright lies, carry out regime change here or there, etc.

  91. SpanishDave

    Only at Arsenal do we have an owner who doesn’t care about winning , just profit.
    Only at Arsenal do we have a manager who has failed consistently for over ten years and has still got a job.
    Only at Arsenal do we have players like Wally Walcott having a ten year career, being paid more than half the Bayern team.
    Only at Arsenal do we have a situation where the manager decides when he wants to go.
    We are run by fools making us look like fools, only at Arsenal

  92. Alexanderhenry

    Dave

    I admit that this season I have been disappointed in wenger. I can’t make much sense of the signings he made and the team have underperformed.

    Previous to that however, I think he did about as well as could be expected.
    The idea that somehow arsenal could have done ‘better’ over the past ten years which would have meant actually winning titles and CLs despite spending a fraction of the resources spent by city, man u, chelsea, barca, bayern, real etc is far fetched to say the least.

    However, the man is 68 and he appears to have lost some of his judgement and composure.

    Do I think arsenal will improve post wenger?

    Almost certainly not.

    Am I prepared to accept a worse arsenal without wenger if it brings added pressure on Kroenke and the BOD which may leas to a change of direction and hopefully, ownership at arsenal?

    Yes.

  93. Dissenter

    There’s no leftist or right-leaning difference when it comes to simple principles of integrity and honor.
    Dont accuse your predecessor of felonies when you have no proof.
    Don’t drag in intelligence agencies of allies to support your lies when you have no proof.
    The right v left debate does not even apply to the orange colored idiot.
    It’s all about the manic tweeting of lies because he heard they typical loony commentary on a fringe radio show spouting conspiracy theories then doubling down to defend the initial lies.

  94. SUGA3

    Bamford,

    Fact of the matter is that it was the the cool and hip democratic president who out-warmongered pretty much any administration since Nixon. Granted, he did not start the Iraq or Afghanistan affairs, but meddling with Libya and Syria was unnecessary.

  95. Dissenter

    ReLIEable,
    Think for yourself.
    I’m surrounded by too many embarrassed right leaning people who voted for Trump at the last minute. He’s lost them already.
    They want their vote back and cant believe howe a grown man can be so lacking in self-control, honor and integrity.
    It was great to see him behave like a spoiled child when he met a strong woman on Friday.

  96. Dave

    Alex, let’s agree to disagree. Personally, if we get the right manager ( and it’s a big if) I think that we will certainly do better post Wenger. Having a bit of fight and not collapsing will be a nice start.

  97. SUGA3

    Strong woman? You mean Merkel? Lord have mercy, that woman should be shot for the high treason done on Germany, whilst fucking up a few other countries in the process.

  98. Adam A. Carbarundum

    In about 25 minutes time we will have fallen to 6th and that position is by a mere goal at that. How low can this Arsenal go? From what we have been witnessing, the bottom has yet to be reached. Shameful Manager and a squad of equallly shameful players.

  99. SpanishDave

    Wengers record is going down the pan , if the board do not pressurise the manager then the manager should apply his own demands on the players and get them to perform for you.
    Wenger is ten years behind the game now, and unlike before he has only one player willing to put a shift in.
    Ozil us gone and not interested.
    Sanchez is off but due credit he gives his all.
    The Brits are just overpaid dumshites, and very wealthy men.
    Wenger hasn’t got a clue how to fix it.

  100. Bamford10

    Suga3

    I agree, and in no way do I give any political support to Obama, Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party.

    Far from being left, they are a center-right, corporate party that represents the interests of Wall St and American big business.

    They use left-sounding talk to cover over a right-wing program of endless war abroad and attacks on the working class at home.

  101. Marko

    ‘Bayern, PSG, Real, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and City have all changed managers since Arsenal last won away at a top 8 side in the league

    This in itself is astounding.

    On the other little side debate that’s taking place. The idea that the left is paying protesters when you see some of the current policies coming out of America is dumb. And that whole freedom of speech is one of the thinnest fucking arguments for spreading hate that you’ll ever see. Like its freedom of speech to allow white supremacy and the likes of Milo whatever his name is to spout whatever they want and then a decade later we’re asking ourselves how could we let society become this bad and how come there’s so much bigotry abound. I mean Hitler was using free speech and eventually we saw what happened. Free speech shouldn’t entitle you to spread hate is what I’m getting at. And Suga says surely people can figure this stuff out for themselves? In America? Absolutely not. With all do respect to them they can’t be trusted to make rational smart decisions anymore.

    My position is more nuanced. I am a wenger fan. I think given the resources he’s had to work with over the past ten years, he’s done an excellent job.

    Alex you are a gem

  102. Marko

    they still couldn’t come up with a compelling argument for their causes.
    That in itself should raise a few questions.

    Your side’s argument is basically immigrants and refugees are bad and the cause of all the world’s problems. Hardly a compelling argument that

  103. Dissenter

    You don’t think running the third largest economy in thew world for 12 years qualifies anyone to be labeled “strong”
    Trump is the third US president she’s dealing with. Think for yourself.
    The German chancellor had done her home work on Trump and had read up most of his interviews, even the one he gave in 1990. He behaved true to type on Friday.
    When he met her on arriving at the WH it was all chummy and hand shakes. She told him some gospel truths indoors and his demeanor changed. That was why the thin skinned bully was acting like an 8 year old.
    Merkel- “You want a hand shake”
    Trump- “incoherent murmuring”, [looking at the floor and twiddling his fingers]

    Leader of the free world my foot.
    Post world war two-American dominance was never meant to last forever. This idiot will seal the decline.

  104. Globalgunner

    Trump would not be todays reality if the Dems had not weaseled that Godawful woman into the candidacy. Clinton even underhandedly helped Trump thinking he would be the easiest to beat… Democrats they are notorious mostly for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Trump just did it for a lark. No one was more surprised than him that he won. Except the Republican who were absolutely sure of losing.

  105. Marko

    Do I think arsenal will improve post wenger? Almost certainly not

    So you basically think there’s no one else capable except Wenger? You’re beyond clueless

  106. SUGA3

    Marko,

    You have lost me at the white supremacy bit. There is maybe 1% of white population who genuinely believes it in this sense.

    Milo may be a crude shit stirrer, but rioting against him is a dumbass move, because it legitimises him and gives him more audience in the internet era.

    But take Ben Shapiro, he always back his points with hard facts. He has been banned from speaking at a few unis too. Just because any attempts to debate against the points he is making ends in utter destruction.

  107. Bamford10

    Marko

    One counters bad ideas and bad speech with good ideas and good speech, not by disallowing the former.

    I loathe the far right, but bad ideas are defeated through free and open speech, discussion and debate, not by suppressing free speech.

    I have no