Arsenal up into 3rd | Chambolands? | Theo not a striker for me

by & filed under Match report.

3 points bagged, up into 3rd, 10 points away from avoiding relegation next year. Times are good in a bad way. How we are where we are considering our run is quite extraordinary! Still, I called it early December. I think we’ll finish top four this season despite regressing as a team.

Wigan away shouldn’t be tough, they have no supporters, their team is weak and they are in the bottom three. It doesn’t stop them causing us problems every year.

Fair play to Martinez, he set his side out to play ball against us. Wigan man marked our midfield three and pressed with surprising vigour. We really struggled to make any incisive inroads in the opening 45.

Sagna and Chamberlain created the first chance combining well out wide, the Frenchman unlucky to have his cross cut out. Arteta worked well with Chamberlain again slipping him in after finding space in the middle, the newly contracted youngster smashed his shot low at the near post, Al Habsi did well to palm wide.

Both teams were struggling with the weather. Cazorla in particular seemed to have his bad touch boots on.

Wigan actually had the better chances, Kone found himself well past Mertesacker through the middle, he dragged his shot badly wide possibly because the German had done enough to put him off. Wigan’s delivery in the final third was our saving grace.

The last notable issue of the first half was Jack Wilshere receiving a very harsh booking for a superb tackle. Moments later he was clattered. The worry with Jack is always discipline. Could he keep his cool under a Wigan bombardment of bad challenges?

The second half started in a far more lively fashion, mostly led by an impressive 20 minute cameo from Chamberlain. His first move was out wide where he beat his man but cut the ball behind Theo, the shot saved by Al Habsi. Our penalty came from an over hit Gibbs cross, Theo picked it up out wide, worked it into the box and was dropped by Beausejour.

Arteta stepped up and sent the keeper the wrong way. One up…

Wigan had their chances to level. Kone forcing a good save from Chezzer after some horror show defending from Sagna. Wigan also had a very good shout for a penalty ignored when Gibbs handled in the box.

None of it mattered in the end, we took the three points and our third consecutive win.

Conclusion

Not pretty, not convincing but a win. That’s all I can say there. Wigan had the better chances, looked more interested for large parts but couldn’t find any end product.

There were some positives. The first one being Jack Wilshere. He was harshly booked for a great challenge. My concern was he’d be targeted from there, which he was, but he rode the storm and didn’t land a red card. He’s a horrible character to play against, exactly what we’ve needed for years. He can beat you for quality and he can beat you if you want to play like Stoke.

Chamberlain showed glimpses of what he’s capable of. His wide display created a number of chances especially during the second half. He needs to start owning games, which he will in time. I think he’s still trying to find his way in that position.

Theo Walcott, for all the goals, is not a top four teams central striker solution. His movement was good in patches, but he can’t play with his back to goal and he can’t hold the ball up, not to mention he has zero aerial threat. He’s there at the moment because we want him to sign. For me, he’s only ever going to make it at the highest level as a winger. His other choice is becoming striker at a team willing to play with two strikers.

Next up, Newcastle on the 29th. A much sterner challenge and better gauge for progress. A must win all the same…

Have a great day, see you tomorrow for A Christmas Eve post!

P.S. A very nice touch from Arsenal giving the away fans £10 vouchers.

245 Responses to “Arsenal up into 3rd | Chambolands? | Theo not a striker for me”

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  1. Gunner2301

    Jeff

    This shows you how much of a cunt Wenger is. Can you name another sport where you get something for fourth? I’m struggling. It’s always the first 3 but hey Wenger why not invent a new level just to accommodate your unambitious arse and make you feel like you achieved something. The man is a joke in every sense of the word.

  2. sam

    maxdrive,

    laudrup or not, they will still find someone to replace him in fact they will have already someone lined up before they give him his p45.
    hey, we are in the top 4 isn’t that a trophy for the board. do you really see wenger getting sacked anytime soon?
    if you really wants wenger out, get usmanov in first coz he wouldn’t accept fourth position.

  3. kwik fit

    Alex Ferguson: “Van Persie could have been killed, Van Persie is lucky to be alive, Van Persie could have had a broken neck, Van Persie could have been unable to give me deep throat ever again. “

  4. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – “Given that Gazidis has come out and said that Wenger is basically unsackable (FACT).”

    What did he actually say ?!

    “Cole and Dein is a side issue. Do you know that it was Dein who said no to the 5k?”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/jun/05/newsstory.sport5

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/5267682.stm

    He said afterwards in his book he didn’t blame Wenger at all, that Dein was the go between, between him and the board, I mean how far are you going to twist this ?!

    People basically give Dein credit for dealing with the money side of things with players, getting everything done, and now you’re saying Wenger was using him like a puppet.

  5. marxdrive

    Keyser

    You make a good point about the use of AKB, then ruin it by adding the childish use of “demented fuckwits”.

    That’s the level most Grover’s have fallen too. Partly to blame by a user that Pedro is thinking of letting post.

  6. Keyser

    Jeff – Upset ? No, I just can’t understand how you sit there and basically go ‘la la la la lah, everyone who doesn’t agree with me is an AKB’ and not realise the sheer stupidity of it.

    Wenger says he won’t be put under pressure to buy.

    Usmanov says he won’t interfere in the playing side of things.

    Wenger says we’ll only spend within our resources.

    Usmanov criticises the commercials and says he could help out.

    Wenger says the board have done what they can.

    Usmanov says Wenger has only had money now.

    Wenger supports those that are in control.

    Usmanov says he has no control.

  7. NoMoreCesc

    How have Kroenke’s teams fared? Here are the facts and just the facts.

    1. St Louis Rams of the NFL (Kroenke entered 1995)

    Pre-Kroenke: NFL Champions in 1945 and 1951, Conference champs 4 times, Division champs 12 times, made the post-season playoffs 22 times

    Post-Kroenke: NFL Champions in 1999, Conference champs in 1999 and 2001, Division champs in 1999, 2001, 2003, made the post-season playoffs 5 times to 2004 but nothing thereafter.
    2004, 2005, 2006 Finished 2nd in their Division
    2007, 2008, 2009 Finished last in their Division
    2010 2nd place
    2011 Last place in Division

    Overall: Used to be an NFL powerhouse and full of stars, but today is a league doormat.

    2. Colorado Avalanche of the NHL (Kroenke purchased in 2000)

    Pre-Kroenke: From 1995 to 2000, NHL Champions in 1996, Conference champs 1996, Division champs 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

    Post-Kroenke: NHL Champion 2001, Conference champ 2001, Division champ 2002, 2003
    2004 2nd place finish, lost Conference Quarter Finals
    2005 Season cancelled due to strike
    2006 2 nd place finish, conference semi loss
    2007 4th place finish, no post season playoff
    2008 2nd place finish, conference semi loss
    2009 5th place finish, no post season
    2010 2nd place finish, conference qfinal loss
    2011 4th place finish, no post season
    2012 3rd place finish, no post season

    Overall: Used to be an NHL powerhouse full of stars, but today is average at best.

    3. Denver Nuggets of the NBA (Kroenke purchased in 2000)

    Pre-Kroenke: Since 1975, won Division title 9 times, and made it to the League Championship finals in 1975.

    Post-Kroenke: mid table and no post season playoffs from 2000 to 2003, mid table and 1st round playoff exits from 2004 to 2012 except in 2009 when they made it to the Conference Final.

    Overall: Perpetually average team since SK acquisition

    4. Colorado Rapids of MLS (Kroenke acquired in 2004)

    Pre-Kroenke: 1996 to 2003 4th or 5th of 5 teams in Division except 3rd place as best finish and one cup semifinal appearance

    Post-Kroenke: MLS Champion in 2010
    2004 3rd of 5 in Division, made it to QFinal
    2005. 3rd of 6, Semi Final
    2006 4th of 6, semi final
    2007 4th of 6, did not make post season playoff
    2008 4th of 7, no playoff
    2009 6th of 8, no playoff
    2010 5th of 8, MLS champs
    2011. 5th of 9, Q final exit
    2012. 7th of 9, no playoff

    Overall: Perpetual mid-table team with one surprising post-season run

  8. Bubble

    sean December 23, 2012
    11:31:39
    Man city the champions won
    1-0 with a late goal v rock
    bottom reading. Its called
    champions mentality. We win
    away at wigan and its called a
    poor showing or not
    acceptable. Some people on
    here and the ed are never
    happy.
    Stop fucking complaining. 3
    games on the bounce now.
    That’ll do me.

    ———————

    They did that absolutely playing reading out of the park. At a point even having a 75-25% possession stat. Chamberlin’s shot aside, Did our overpaid dross trouble the wigan goal for more than 70mins? Good. Shut the fuck up then.

  9. Keyser

    marxdrive – It’s to drive home the irony of it all.

    Loads of people have made the point before, no-one gives a shit now,Pedro’s not too bothered by the comments section.

  10. Zen Warrior

    Gambon talks more sense than most on here… Look forward to his imput.. On a personal level, I’m off to have a shit on Wengers doorstep… Everyone should try an give a little something during the festive season.. !!

  11. Jeff

    Keyser,

    It is a waste of time replying to you and I fully realise this but you have to stop being offended by the term AKB. My original comment a few posts back didn’t name any names or accuse anyone in particular of anything. You took it for granted that I was talking about you and got offended.

    Doesn’t that prove that you are an AKB? If you are an AKB, why deny it or get upset by it? You didn’t get to where you are by not being an AKB.

    Anyway, I won’t try to discuss anything else with you because I know it can go on way past the cows’ bed time and at the end of it you’ll still be an AKB and I’ll still be whatever you wish to think I am; and that’s that.

    None of your points, claims, statistics or opinions can possibly detract from the fact that Wenger has been a huge albatross around Arsenal’s neck for nearly a decade now. Most people on here know and fully accept this but you won’t and that’s basically it. There is no need to fill volumes talking about who said what, when and why because we know where it will end up – no where.

    Have a pleasant evening talking to the hand.

  12. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    If you don’t know what Gazidis said in his own words you maybe need to school yourself before you come on here talking about what you don’t know.

    I’ll post you’re own links back because little do you know you’re hanging yourself with them.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/jun/05/newsstory.sport5

    “Cole, arguably the best left-back in the world, is also critical of Arsène Wenger, the Arsenal manager. ‘I wish I’d had more support from him,’ he says. ‘He should have been on my side more. ‘The Arsenal board, and Dein in particular, have hung me out to dry.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/5267682.stm

    “We are ready” said Wenger last week. “From our part there’s no problem. Why don’t you ask Chelsea what the problem is? I don’t know.

    “It’s also difficult for us. We have a player and we cannot really count on him. Is he with us or not?

    If nobody gives us the right offer what can you do
    Arsene Wenger

    “We have to sort this situation out quite quickly. The numbers are not so important for Chelsea. They just bought a player.

    “This situation is not a money situation. We have not turned down an offer. The problem is not between us and Chelsea.”

    “He doesn’t need to ask for a transfer because we gave him permission to leave when he extended his contract at the end of last season.”

    “He has permission to leave if a club come in and makes the right offer.”

    So Keyser

    If you read the second extract, Cole’s contract was renewed the season before even though he wasn’t in Wengers plans. Sounds like Wenger was intent on getting maximum value out of selling Cole. Why because he had his love child Clichy in the wings and had to make space for him.

    You forget that Wenger at this time was all about getting rid of players so his potential stars could be showcased.

    Given these facts do you really think Arsenal, Dein, Wenger were negotiating with Cole over a deal to keep him? Hmmm sounds a bit strange to me.

    Like I pointed out to you and you fail to acknowledge. Arsenals modis operandi is to get players into a position with wages where they will not meet their demands making it easier to sell them on and sell the story to the fans that they were too greedy blah blah blah. Cole, Ade, Nasri, RVP The story has been spun so many times it’s getting boring.

    Keyser – This is how Arsenal operate. Take the blinkers off.

    PS. I read Coles auto biography too.

  13. Keyser

    Jeff – See there you go again, like you know what people are thinking.

    I wasn’t offended by the term neccessarily, it’s that you hide behind it because you don’t have the fortitude to construct points without it.

    This is why I ‘Jeff’ think this, if not you’re an AKB, you can’t simply argue your point on it’s merits, you have to give it false substance, by saying if you don’t agree, you’re an AKB.

    That post just proves it, you are in fact the ULTIMATE AKB, and you don’t even realise it.

    It’s hilarious how pathetic your last post was.

    “Anyway, I won’t try to discuss anything else with you because I know it can go on way past the cows’ bed time”

    - Because you can’t admit when you’re wrong.

    “None of your points, claims, statistics or opinions can possibly detract ”

    - Typical AKB.

    “Have a pleasant evening talking to the hand.”

    - Ultimate AKB, good day mate, thanks for proving my point.

  14. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    Read between the lines. Usmanov has to support Wenger because he knows the fan base will not accept him without doing that, however do you really believe a man that has made himself in business would put up with the shit Wenger is spouting about 4th is a trophy blah blah blah?

    Jesus come on. As soon as Usmanov has his foot in the door he will surround himself with winners and I’m sorry but that doesn’t include Wenger and his loser mentality.

    He has to go up against the board at the moment because that’s what the fans will get behind. He’s not stupid and make no mistake there is no place for people like Wenger in Usmanovs regime. It will be like when politicians resign after a fuck up. We’ll sing Wengers praises make out he was a saint hide all his fuckups and quietly sideline the shit players he has amassed and let him ride off into the sunset with his reputation in tact.

  15. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – “If you don’t know what Gazidis said in his own words you maybe need to school yourself before you come on here talking about what you don’t know.”

    Or just post his exact words, I went and found you the links because I could’ve just said what he wrote in his autobiography and said ‘ na na na, shutup’ just like you’ve done there.

    “I’ll post you’re own links back because little do you know you’re hanging yourself with them.”

    Fucking hell mate, look at the timeline, I purposely gave yout wo links, because one was about the player tampering enquiries that cost Chelsea points, and the other was at the time of him being sold.

    Forget who you’re talking to, it obviously clouds your thinking.

    You were making out Wenger dictated terms and conditions to Arsenal, the Board and David Dein, like he’s all the all knowing, all seeing power behind everything, always was and always will be.

    When clearly the Cole situation goes against that, he said in his autobiography and later at the time of his being sold, that he didn’t blame Wenger or the fans, but did blame Dein and the board.

    Again, and this goes against your point anyway, Cole could just be a cunt, as is shown by his meeting Chelsea and Mourinho.

  16. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – Because simply he can’t substantiate his opinion without denigrating the views of others.

    That’s basically what Pedro laid down and why the sites about having an opinion, not getting one.

  17. marxdrive

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 18:45:40

    ” do you really believe a man that has made himself in business would put up with the shit Wenger is spouting about 4th is a trophy blah blah blah? ”

    Kroenke has made himself in business and he did.

    No-one really knows what AU would do, once in power.

  18. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – That read between the lines bollocks, is exactly the type of thing I was criticising Jeff for.

    Dein brought Wenger to the club, he sold his shares to Usmanov, he’s basically Wenger’s bum chum, he lets him play on his waterslide ffs.

    It defies belief now, how far you’re willing to stretch this.

    Usmanov isn’t stupid, heh, so why would he pump shitloads of his money now, when he can hide behind FFP and the clubs new sponsorship deals anyway ? The Cyclical logic people come out with is amazing.

  19. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    You posted links which you obviously didn’t read before hand because the excerpts I took out of those links clearly show you have committed suicide by posting them.

    Next time read the whole article to make sure there isn’t anything in there that will kill the arguments you are trying to make.

    If you were following Arsenal you would know when Gazidis said these things because I do. Maybe you’re just in denial but they are there for the record if you care to Google it.

    Like I keep saying. Wenger wanted Cole sold so whatever Cole came with as an acceptable salary it was already decided when he renewed his contract the season before – HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?

    Did Dein say actually Ashley I don’t want you in my team? No Wenger did. Which means Wenger like I said at the beginning will indicate who he wants who he doesn’t want and what he is prepared to pay them, what a reasonable sale price is etc. Dein was just the carrier of the message from Wenger in this respect. HENCE WHY COLE SAID HE THOUGHT WENGER WOULD STAND BY HIM.

    Ask yourself this. If Cole was negotiating with Dein directly without any influence from Wenger, do you honestly believe that Dein would sell Cole who was at the time probably the best LB in the World without Wenger being in support of this? YOU’RE OBVIOUSLY ON CRACK!

  20. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    Then you’re telling me shit like “I read his autobiography” Like there was only one fucking copy printed. LMAO.

  21. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – “You posted links which you obviously didn’t read before hand because the excerpts I took out of those links clearly show you have committed suicide by posting them. ”

    I did read them you nutter, have you looked at the dates yet ? Have YOU read them, I posted both because rather than find shit that completely backs up my point, without any ambiguity I thought it’d be fair If I posted all of it.

    It’s funny now, you simply refuse to accept the direct quotes from Cole where he said he blames Dein, and the board for not giving him enough support.

    “Dein was just the carrier of the message from Wenger in this respect. HENCE WHY COLE SAID HE THOUGHT WENGER WOULD STAND BY HIM.”

    Heh, so basically Dein did fuckall ?!

    Dein negotiated contracts and the money side of things as did the board.

  22. Keyser

    In an interview in the News of the World Cole, who was fined £100,000 for his part in the Chelsea ‘tapping-up’ incident, says he cannot forgive the Arsenal vice-chairman, whose official complaint led to the Premier League inquiry.

    ‘He treated me like a little kid and didn’t show me any respect,’ says Cole. ‘This is a broken bridge that may be impossible to mend. I blame David Dein for trying to force me out. ‘I am convinced a section of the Arsenal board do not want me. They’ve left me feeling there is no way back. I can’t help feeling they want me to go, and it’s all over. I feel betrayed, confused and badly let down. It’s hard to forgive.’

  23. Keyser

    I really hope he isn’t going to post an extremely large one.

    “Like I pointed out to you and you fail to acknowledge. Arsenals modis operandi is to get players into a position with wages where they will not meet their demands making it easier to sell them on and sell the story to the fans that they were too greedy blah blah blah”

    This simply wasn’t the case before the stadium, we tried to hold on to players when Dein was around.

    Vieira was linked for years with a move abroad, to Real Madrid every year, and we’d probably have got 2-3 times what he evernetually did.

    Likewise Henry, we could’ve sold him for shitloads. Cole either wanted to leave anyway because Chelsea were offering far bigger wages, or he was upset with the way he was treated.

    Anyway the point is it clearly shows the impact Dein and the board had on the players and the club. So Wenger wasn’t omnipotent.

    Even 2 years ago, Wenger basically comes out in the press and says ‘We can’t be considered a big club if we sell Nasri and Fabregas’, He says he’d rather let Nasri see out the final year of his contract.

    Then Kroenke makes a special visit, chats to everyone and Nasri’s sold. that’s years after Dein left.

    Unless it was a double bluff on Wengers part, heh.

  24. marxdrive

    You made a point which favors Wenger. In today’s le-grove user that puts you In the AKB.

    You won an argument and didn’t call anyone a cunt. Your on the wrong site.

  25. Keyser

    I didn’t win anything, we’re all Arsenal fans, so we’re all losers together.

    Maybe Arsenal fans are just at the point where no-one cares what they say, just that this site used to be pretty good for a discussion.

    I blame Pedro for disabling the embedding of videos, ever since that happened we’ve got nothing to break up the monotony.

  26. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    Like I keep saying. The plan was to get rid of Cole all along you posted again

    “I can’t help feeling they want me to go, and it’s all over. I feel betrayed, confused and badly let down. It’s hard to forgive.”

    Imagine Cole pouring out his heart in such a way and you believe it was Dein who wanted rid of him and not Wenger? :lol: Comedy Gold.

    We started this off by you saying Dein didn’t want to pay Cole the extra 5k. I said it wasn’t solely down to Dein. Nothing you have posted since tells me anything different because Cole cites Dein who was the messenger and the face that Cole was dealing with at the time, but he also cites his disappointment in Wenger, which I took from your own post. Cole says “They” meaning plural i.e. not “He” meaning Dein alone.

    GAME SET AND MATCH!

  27. marxdrive

    This site could be a great way of getting Arsene fans to see what’s really going on. But the moment they find this site and have a misinformed opinion, they are sworn at and belittled. Leaving them nowhere to go but stick up for their misguided opinion and leave.

    If the regulars on here, see it as a chance to pass on the knowledge they have picked up and treat them the way they probably would If they were face to face. Then the collective support for change at Arsenal would grow, giving credence to our individual voices.

  28. Keyser

    “but he also cites his disappointment in Wenger, which I took from your own post. Cole says “They” meaning plural i.e. not “He” meaning Dein alone.”

    At best all this means is that they all have a say, flippin hell mate, you were saying Wenger controls everything.

    You’re like Jeff now, or just maybe you’re ego’s hurt, told you far more AKB’s than they’re are willing to admit it.

    So your own post Concedes ‘THEY’, unless Wenger’s part of an X-files style cloning experiement, where you feel ‘THEY’ is him and his biological identical identities, which wouldn’t surprise me.

  29. marxdrive

    When Cole talk’s about ‘they’ he was referring to the support he felt he was getting regarding the tap-up allegations and after that was concluded they offered him the 55k. Proving Wenger and Arsenal were willing to keep him.

  30. Gunner2301

    marxdrive

    The Arsene fans already have Untold and ACLF. I’m sure Pedro and Geoff wouldn’t want Le-Grove turning into a Wenger homage fest. If that’s what you’re looking for then there are plenty of sites for that.

    So according to you and Keyser, Dein sold Cole off his own back against Arsenes wishes even though it’s there in black and white that Wenger didn’t want him?

    We are all familiar with Wengers proclamations of wanting to keep people which means the exact opposite. In fact it’s a sign that they are on the “See You Later List”.

    Keyser

    Now you’re gradually changing your tune and saying that they all have a say? When you compromise on what you said originally you have already lost the argument and you have.

    Look back at what I’ve said. Its the same all the way through. Really you guys need school yourselves before you come here otherwise you get schooled.

  31. Gunner2301

    marxdrive

    However you want to spin it. “They” is never one person, which is what Keyser was trying to say i.e. that it was Dein.

  32. Gunner2301

    marxdrive

    They offer Cole 55k which they know he will never accept on principle given his contribution. Just like they’re offering Walcott 75k which he sees as an insult given his contribution as compared to others. Cole was sold Walcott will be sold. See where this is going?

  33. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – You sound like you’re 12 with that schooled bullshit.

    “Now you’re gradually changing your tune and saying that they all have a say? When you compromise on what you said originally you have already lost the argument and you have.”

    I’m quoting you, you nutter, ahahaha, that’s even funnier, seriously.

    You said ‘THEY’ when all along you’ve been trying to make out Wenger controls everything.

    YOU SAID IT, hah, do you understand ?!

    So you’ve changed your tune from saying it was all down to Wenger, to now it’s ‘THEY’, mate that’s all I wanted.

  34. marxdrive

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 20:40:18

    I say

    “This site could be a great way of getting Arsene fans to see what’s really going ON.”etc

    You say:

    “The Arsene fans already have Untold and ACLF. I’m sure Pedro and Geoff wouldn’t want Le-Grove turning into a Wenger homage fest.”

    Please read again and point out how educating Arsene fans so they see whats going, would turn Le-Grove into a Wenger ‘homage’ fest.

  35. sam

    Gunner2301

    you are so right,

    i knew van persie was going to be sold the day he shouted at wenger against man utd. the man has a grudge of crocodile, all this i want robin to stay talk was just the usual crap. he was going to be sold whether he liked it or not.

  36. Keyser

    December 23, 2012 17:27:47

    “The fucked up wage policy is Wengers idea to promote equality within the team and is probably the single most policy that is fucking us up. ”

    I know it’s been ages, but come on, Dein denied Ashley Cole the extra 5k he wanted, which is probably bollocks anyway because he’s a bit of a cunt.

    So what then ? Wenger got in between Dein leaving and Kroenke taking over and decided to implement this wage policy. Though Kroenke was Dein’s idea anyway.

    “Wenger being the most powerful manager in football is not using any of this to his advantage in fact he is tying the hands of the Club with his outdated methods and naive idealogies. The majority of constraints we face are self imposed by Wenger nobody else.”

  37. marxdrive

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 20:46:39

    “They offer Cole 55k which they know he will never accept on principle given his contribution.”

    That was 5k less then money bags Chelski was offering. It’s a shame to lose a player for such a measly amount but If the player would have been committed to Arsenal (which his tap-up actions put into question) he would have signed.

    Theo is different as he’s not been going behind Arsenals back.

  38. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    Lets go back over this.

    1. You said Dein denied Cole the extra 5k he was looking for not me. You said Dein was the go between Cole and the board.

    2. You posted a couple of links to support what you was saying.

    3. I pull excerpts out of those articles where Cole says he felt he should have got more support from Wenger. What did he mean by this? Could he have meant if I think I’m worth 60k then surely the manager if he wanted me would speak up and say you need to pay one of the best LBs in the World 60k because that;s what he’s worth? (just like he has with his other prodigies, but Cole wasn’t one of his you see so he was quite happy for him to leave).

    4. I also pull out an excerpt from your own link where Wenger himself says that they renewed his contract the season before knowing that they would be selling him.

    So in plain English. Cole was sold because Wenger had planned to sell him (in his own words). He wasn’t in his future plans.

    This goes back to the motives of the Club i.e. the Ajax production line mentality buy em cheap sell em high profiteering mentality, which they have been using ever since.

  39. marxdrive

    “The deal he offered was a £10,000-a-week increase to £35,000″

    Arsenal then offer 55k.

    Are these the actions of a club that want to get rid of a player?

  40. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – No, you posted this.

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 17:17:40
    Zoran
    As long as there is blatant wastage going on lack of tactics and the failure to see where we’re going wrong year after year, you can’t blame that on the board. The fucked up wage policy is Wengers idea to promote equality within the team and is probably the single most policy that is fucking us up.
    Chamakh not playing and taking up wages? Arshavin not playing and taking up wages all the players on loan hidden away from view? These are not attributable to the board. The substitutions Wenger makes on a match day and his lack of preparation isn’t down to the board.

    Wenger was the same before Kroenke so don’t look to blame him he has just continued with what was going on before and that is down to Wenger. Fiszman asked Wenger what he would do with 100mill Wenger said he’d give it back, that was before Kroenke came on board.

    Wenger being the most powerful manager in football is not using any of this to his advantage in fact he is tying the hands of the Club with his outdated methods and naive idealogies. The majority of constraints we face are self imposed by Wenger nobody else.

    I agree nothing major will change unless Usmanov comes in but please don’t make out like the board are all powerful over Wenger and he has to do as they say. If he wasn’t in on it, why hasn’t he walked? Because he’s collecting easy money with absolute freedom and very little in the way of demands or expectations put upon him.

    I asked you about Dein denying Ashley Cole 5k.

    You came back with this.

    Cole and Dein is a side issue. Do you know that it was Dein who said no to the 5k? Listen to what Gazidis said (FACT). Wenger recommends to them what he thinks a player is worth in transfer and wages. That was when the Diaby wages blew up at the AST. So if Wenger makes his recommendation why would you think Dein would take it upon himself to set wages on his own independent of what value Wenger places on that individual to the team? It wouldn’t happen.

    So to say off the cuff Dein denied Cole 5k therefore he left for Chelsea is absolute bollocks

  41. Gunner2301

    marxdrive

    Cole felt cornered like he didn’t have many options.

    Keyser

    Your post just confirms that Dein was doing the negotiating, which was his job.

    I’m asking you if you believe Dein woke up one day and thought Oh Ashley Cole I’ll sell him today? I Don’t think so. Wenger would have had to say I don’t really need him or I have Clichy coming through so why should we pay him so much? Dein wouldn’t have been acting without Wengers input.

  42. Keyser

    You tried to make out that Wenger was behind everything and always has been.

    When Ashley Cole leaving clearly shows that isn’t true.

    Look back at your own posts, you’ve tried to make out even then that Dein was simply Wenger’s messenger boy, you even said it yourself a few posts back.

    That goes against almost everything people think about Dein and his involvement with the club.

    You then came up with this:

    “Now you’re gradually changing your tune and saying that they all have a say? When you compromise on what you said originally you have already lost the argument and you have.”

    You’re going around in circles now.

  43. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    So what’s wrong with what you re-posted? Basically I’m saying that Wenger recommends salary brackets based on what value he places on a player. You were talking like Dein was the sole person behind the whole we won’t pay you the extra 5k.

    Follow what is going on with Walcott now and others that have left. Maybe you;ll understand how it works, but you can only see it if you want to and I don;t believe you do so there’s no point discussing with you when you ignore what’s in front of your face.

  44. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    What role do you think Dein played as opposed to Wenger? Do you honestly believe Dein would solely decide what to pay a player without asking Wenger how valuable a player was to him? Whether he was in his future plans? If he would like to sell a player or not or do you think Dein did all this indpendently and Arsene just woke up one morning and found out through reading the papers that his players are being sold?

    If you accept that Wenger has some role in these affairs, why would he not have had a role in the Cole affair?

  45. marxdrive

    Arsene Wenger

    “He doesn’t need to ask for a transfer because we gave him permission to leave when he extended his contract at the end of last season.”

    Gunner2301 – interpretation

    “So in plain English. Cole was sold because Wenger had planned to sell him (in his own words). He wasn’t in his future plans.”

    That’s where your going wrong. Wenger’s statement provided the person asking, with a time that Cole had the option to leave the club but chose to stay with Arsenal.

    If Wenger had planned to sell him, why offer the first contract and keep him?

    and then again later on in his career?

    Even after he had been seen talking to Chelski behind Arsenal’s back we offered him more than double what he was on.

  46. marxdrive

    R.S..P.C.Arsenal December 23, 2012 21:27:12

    “Why is van presie trending tonight? What occurred did not see game”

    William kicked the ball at Robin’s head.

    SAF said he could have been killed……………..lol

  47. Keyser

    Salary brackets ? Cole was on 27k, so basically he goes ‘Dein, double that and add a few thousand’ and then Dein runs off and does his bidding.

    There’s a massive difference between how we did business before and after we’d built the stadium.

    Wasn’t it a given that Dein’s biggest virtue was that he’d deal with the money side of things and get things done ? The board dealt with whether it was viable.

    So Wenger says I’ll keep Cole, Dein goes back to the board and they haggle with Cole on 55k, Wenger even says that he wants to keep him and then the board give him the 5k, by then Coles got his way out.

    What’s going on with Walcott is something completely different.

    You’re describing Dein as nothing but a puppet.

    “The majority of constraints we face are self imposed by Wenger nobody else.”

    This is complete bollocks.

    There’s only soo much the board, Dein, Wenger can do, and you seem to forget this, most people do.

  48. Keyser

    He could just be trying to distract from 2 points dropped against Swansea, also stockpiling some goodwill from the referee’s association.

  49. Gunner2301

    marxdrive

    The point we’re trying to establish is Dein being the sole person involved in the negotiation with Cole. Keyser says he is I’m saying Dein is a go between and Wenger will tell him the parameters in terms of what players are worth. Those are the two points we are talking about.

    And please don’t tell me one more time that the Club was negotiating with him so didn’t want to sell him, that means nothing. All I will say is look at Walcotts situation again it’s not that disimilar to Coles.

  50. Keyser

    marxdrive – “The point we’re trying to establish is Dein being the sole person involved in the negotiation with Cole.”

    We’re not really discussing that, Gunner2301 would like to, obviously. We’re discussing how much influence Wenger had over transfers.

    Gunner2301 thinks he controls everything and that Dein was simply his Messenger boy.

    “Dein was just the carrier of the message from Wenger in this respect. HENCE WHY COLE SAID HE THOUGHT WENGER WOULD STAND BY HIM.”

    I asked about the Cole situation and how Cole was upset over being denied the extra 5k by Dein and the board.

  51. Paulinho

    Wenger was pretty happy to see Cole go. Cole was half the player that final year, had a injury and couldn’t go forward and support the attack, and it was only when he went to Chelsea that he got the injury sorted out and played more like he did for us back in 2000/2003. Clichy was waiting in the wings and Gallas was coming the other way.

    Vieira was sold the year before so the attitude of fighting tooth and nail to keep players like we did the early 2000s was no longer in operation.

  52. GoonerDave

    This site is too one-sided I think. You criticise AKBs for thinking Wenger can do no wrong, is perfect, yet very few of you seem to think he can do anything at all right. To say that Wenger can do nothing right is just as ridiculous as saying he can do no wrong. 2 sides of the same stupid coin. Why our fanbase is so fundamentalist Ill never know.
    The answer is the middle. He is far from perfect. Tactically Wenger often looks poor. Sometimes he picks captains that seem odd. He may have worked with limited funds, but some of his recent purchases have been more miss than hit. That said, he has shown great work ethic, intelligence, loyalty and courage to get us where we are today and that must never be forgotten.
    Lets face it, the chances are that had we not appointed him, we wouldnt be where we are today.
    Recently, Usmanov said that Wenger had not received the support he should. Wenger and Gazidis both have also both mentioned that the financial constraints of the last 5 years were no longer there. So really, it looks as though the property crash basically cost us our best player each season. Wenger planned and pushed the stadium move, so perhaps we should criticise Arsene for being a year too late. That would seem like a fair criticism, hes the financial whizz after all.
    My point is that there are reasons to both praise and criticise Arsene Wenger, and there are lots of Arsenal fans just like me out there. But when it comes to judging him, its only fair to judge him on wage structure, because he hasnt had the capital to invest in purchases. We are 3rd or 4th in the wage table I believe, so we are not punching above our weight as we should be. We are just getting along. Thats not good enough, but the fact that Wenger had so little to spend just about buys him the right to have a go, now things arent so bleak financially.
    If things dont improve, his contact ends in 2014 anyway.

  53. marxdrive

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 18:39:47

    “Given these facts do you really think Arsenal, Dein, Wenger were negotiating with Cole over a deal to keep him? Hmmm sounds a bit strange to me.

    Gunner2301 December 23, 2012 21:44:57

    “And please don’t tell me one more time that the Club was negotiating with him so didn’t want to sell him, that means nothing.”

  54. Royal Bludger

    Gave a look at WBA even … if you divide recent accomplishments by wage spend then Wenger is probably the worst manager in the league.

    Real Madrid? Give me a break … he wouldn’t last 10 games there.

  55. marxdrive

    Keyser December 23, 2012 21:51:06

    marxdrive – “The point we’re trying to establish is Dein being the sole person involved in the negotiation with Cole.”

    “We’re not really discussing that, Gunner2301 would like to, obviously. We’re discussing how much influence Wenger had over transfers.”

    I did not say that, it was Gunner2301.

    It would be a lot easier If you just called each other cunts.lol

  56. marxdrive

    OK – lol

    So lets summarize:

    Gunner2301 – Thinks that Wenger was in complete control of the Cole transfer and how Dein was just a puppet in getting Cole out.

    Myself – Pointed out that Wenger and Arsenal wanted him to stay therefore making the argument a moot point.

    Keyser – Took offense to Dein being called a puppet and pointed out that he had far more control in the Cole negotiations.

  57. SDE

    As an aside to the debate over Wenger’s role & Dein’s role..

    Thought some aspects were overlooked in the Cole saga..

    I do believe that Dein did act as a conduit b/w Manager & BoD..
    If Wenger really wanted Cole to stay..Dein would have rubber stamped the deal..

    I do believe according to Gunner2301,that Wenger had already sanctioned the selling of Cole,so as to make way for Clichy..

    All that said,the relationship b/w player & club had broken down for a number of reasons that some of you guys had mentioned..

    & other reasons,where the information is not so readily available in the public domain..

    One of the other reasons,was the role & influence of Patrick Vieira as a captain at the time..

    Our PV a leader of men,had a quiet word in Cole’s ear & told him not to ask for anything less than £60k..

    He reminded Cole of his contribution,not only to AFC,but to England..

    I do believe Cole was a regular starter,& established LB for England..

    He felt as an established England Intl,this should also be reflected in his
    re-numeration..

    Dein’s view,from what I’ve been told back then,was that as Cole had come through the ranks,rather than bought from another club..
    & was not ready,or willing to over pay for a home grown talent..Much less be held to ransom,by a local football boy..

    £55K was the limit & to be held to ransom by Cole,aided by PV..Rankled with Dein..As later on,we saw PV being sold off…

    Whether Wenger & Dein,collectively felt that Cole should be lucky/thankful to be awarded such a contract,is a matter of conjecture..

    What is felt,is that had Cole not been brought through the ranks & was acquired from overseas..Contract talks of £60,000 would not have been an issue to begin with..

    Let’s also not forget..Wenger did try to flog Cole to Crystal Palace during Cole’s early years..

    So somewhere in b/w Wenger’s fingerprints was on Cole’s eventual departure..

    The whole tapping up scenario,muddied the waters a bit..But provided a convenient smokescreen for the club to hide behind publicly..

    In that respect,nothing much has changed over the years..

  58. marxdrive

    SDE

    Would you say that Dein was just a puppet?

    and that Wenger wanted him gone, so offered him less than he wanted hoping/knowing he would go?

  59. SDE

    marxdrive

    No,I would not say Dein was a muppet..Far from it..

    Dein & Wenger had good synergy..

    They worked well together,as was evidenced by player purchases & trophies won during the first 7 years of OGL’s reign..

    I believe OGL’s patience with English player’s at the time was waring thin..
    Recall,when we were all asking for a fox,in the box..”Jeffers..”
    The dud goalkeeper..Richard Wright..Matthew Upson,wanting first team football..Stephen Wright..etc,etc..

    With the exception of the dud Jeffers,all wanted first team football..With OGL’s reply being fight for your place..In short,he had no time for them..
    Only for the mainstay senior english players(defense),who had been there before his arrival & Sol Campbell…

    I believe OGL felt that buying english player’s offered very little in terms of value for money & ability..

    He much preferred overseas players,with far more technical ability,intelligence & a degree of subservience & in short better value for money..than english player’s…

    All that said..As I mentioned previously,he tried to flog Cole in his early years..
    But Cole proved himself..Now the debate over paying him £55k..Was an issue b/w the board & OGL..

    I’m sure Dein asked,”Is he that valuable to you..?Do you still see him as an integral member of your first team?”

    With Wenger probably countering,
    “Well I’ve got Clichy bringing up the rear..
    I’ve found Henry,Vieira,Anelka,Pires,Lungberg..Clichy will be the new Cole..”

    “I can start,my rebuilding of Project Youth MK1..”
    “Do what you have too do Dein to make the deal happen with any other club..That is your domain..”

    (I’m just assuming the scenario above..)

    So now Dein’s remit,is to maximise what he can get from the transfer of Cole..

    How this is played out in the public domain & interpreted is open to conjecture.. Where you have the good guy & the villain..
    It’s an act,that AFC have perfected so well over the years..

    RVP is a classic case..

    So yes,I believe they offered him less,to force Cole’s hand..

    Certainly PV sticking his oars in,did not help matters in player relations..Which proved to be the catalyst in later years for PV being bombed off to Italy..The final straw,that broke the camel’s back..

  60. marxdrive

    Fair point.

    I personally think It was more a case of ‘we can survive without him so make him come down to our price or ship out’.

    Wenger’s arrogance, letting him know who’s boss.

  61. Nabby

    Some interesting thoughts on the Cole saga.

    One thing that’s not been brought into consideration is that by the time Cole was on the verge of leaving, Dein would have been looking at the Ashburton Grove project and, given that funds were going to be tight, he likely would’ve asked AW if Clichy would be a suitable replacement for Cole in the event of him being sold.

    I’m prepared to accept that AW and DD took a calculated gamble on selling Cole, partly to reduce wages to help with the new stadium and partly to teach him a lesson given his behaviour towards them and the club.

    Sometimes these gambles pay off, sometimes they don’t. What I can also see is that the club and AW have increasingly taken more and more of these gambles and they are paying off less and less. I hope that the self-imposed shackles will be loosened at some point but am not convinced they will be in January.

  62. SDE

    marxdrive & nobby

    Both valid points..

    I concur with Nobby’s reasoning,what with the Ashburton project underway & funds being tight..AW & DD took a calculated gamble..With Clichy bringing up the rear..Their base was covered in that position..

    That,along with Cole’s intransigence & PV sticking his oars in..Made it a very simple calculation to get rid..

    Once everything was agreed b/w Dein & OGL. & with the final approval of the BoD.Now it was how they were going to spin it to the fans & the public at large..for fans to vent their spleen & label the players who left,over the years with chants of..

    Cashley Cole..The mercenary…Waving fake money at him

    Nasri-The fat greedy bastard

    Cesc-The c**t,SOB..

    RVP-The limp wristed,greedy,lying bastard,turncoat..

    What a classy club,we are..!!

  63. Cesc Appeal

    An AKB is just a term used for a person who believes wholly in Arsene Wenger, will hear no wrong leveled against him, will ignore glaring holes in our stratagem or lack thereof and firmly believes despite evidence that Wenger will change his ways and deliver the club from the precipice it stands on…with no actual evidence to support this claim aside from the fact he won an FA Cup in 2005.

    They will also at every turn ignore the FACT that Wenger has gone 50% of his reign potless…literally. No other manager would be allowed to do that at a ‘top’ club.

  64. jlp

    Cescappeal,

    How many of these other ‘top clubs’ have had managers who built a stadium,a pretty decent youth set up… et all…during their time?
    It’s as blinkered to say all Wenger has done for the past 7 years is fail to win anything as it is to say he can do no wrong.
    I’m with you on the he isn’t top shelf anymore and should move on front but going on about AKB’s and how they behave without acknowledging the mans contributions through out his ENTIRE tenure is no less fucking stupid.

  65. MarsBar

    Some comments you have to read make me laugh.

    It can be looked at two ways, Wenger has excelled with the teams he has or over excelled and got lucky.

    Wenger just doesn’t want to spend money to be seen in the same light as spending money and STILL failing. He spends and we still have the same problems as now, then the media will still preach the constraints he is under blah blah blah… He has spent when he has wnated to, and has failed with the purchases not getting the best out each signing due to his inability to manage a team properly and focusing on to much shit that shouldn’t matter to him!

    He needs to go. Things need change. We are stagnant on many levels from the board to playing level.