Arsenal fans, what would you prefer, two cups or Champions League football?

by & filed under News Review.

So Liverpool march on to the FA Cup final, Andy Carroll justifies every penny of his purchase price and King Kenny gets a shot at a Cup double come what May (and keeps his job for a year). I know there are plenty of Arsenal fans looking on in envy. Geoff is one of those fans. I am to a certain degree. Cup final day is always an amazing event. Drinking beer in the sun, heading up Wembley way, seeing a great game with a 50/50 split of fans… it’s all plenty of fun. But I tell you what, I wouldn’t trade their potential cup double for our potential top 4 position.

Why?

Simply put, dropping out of the top four for Arsenal would be an absolute disaster.

We break even as a club. Each year, any profit we make either comes from player sales or one of our many property deals. So, we break even and Champions League brings in £40million worth of revenue. If we miss out on top four and win two cups. We’d make about £1.1million. Where do we think the other £38.9million is coming from? I’ll tell you where. That £50million we have sitting in the TPA. That would leave us£11.1million transfer kitty for the summer.

What could we get for that? Not much. That might not matter though. Robin Van Persie wouldn’t sign on, so we’d have to sell our best player. Then when he’s gone, how are we expected to recruit big names with no Champions League to boast of?  We could obviously, but it’d be far tougher.

Winning trophies is amazing. It’s an embarrassment that we haven’t for so long. We can’t let that blinker the stark reality of our predicament these days… without Champions League, we could could become an also ran like Liverpool. They’re scrapping around the midtable area, they’re loaded up to their eye balls with crap players on silly money (I know we have similar problems) and it’s going to take another £100million to get them out of that hole.

We all want success, but when it comes to cup competitions these days, that success has to come complete with top 4 status. It makes no sense on any level to prefer a cup win over a a top four spot. We need both. If we miss out it affects gate receipts, recruitment, overseas revenues and potential sponsorship deals.

I’m democratic though. I appreciate some of you just vommited up last nights mixed grill at the above post, so I’ll let you vote.

Results back tomorrow.

We’ve got a tough game against an in form Wigan tomorrow. They should be a walkover at home. However, we’ve seen them nearly turn Chelsea over and we’ve seen them beat United convincingly. You sometimes get a miracle story in the Premiership, we need to make sure that them beating us doesn’t cap off a good few weeks for them.

I think the home fans will boost the players and hopefully they’ll leave any form of complacency in the team bus. Kieran Gibbs is back in contention. I’d imagine after the Santos horror show we were put through last week, he’ll go straight back into the side. I think we’ll probably see Rosicky thrown back in the mixer again after another poor showing from Ramsey. That said, I have no clue.

I’ll give a firmer match preview tomorrow. I’ll leave you with some stats lifted from the Guardian website.

• Arsenal have scored 19 goals in their past six top-flight meetings with Wigan at an average of 3.16 per game

• Wigan are the only Premier League side to have played at least five times at Arsenal without ever taking even a single point

• If selected, Bacary Sagna will be making his 150th Premier League appearance

• Wigan have kept only two clean sheets from a total of 16 matches against Arsenal in all competitions

• Robin van Persie has scored or assisted 59 goals in his past 50 games in this division

Have a great day!

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556 Responses to “Arsenal fans, what would you prefer, two cups or Champions League football?”

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  1. Gunner2301

    SDE

    Bravo. Apple the biggest company in the World is still going without Steve Jobs and I’m sure he has contributed more and been more beneficial to society than Wenger ever will be. But believe it or not some people are asking themselves what would we do if Wenger left. Some people need to get some perspective.

  2. Daniel

    Gunner2301,

    The only thing that I see intolerance for is the opinions of other people. As Mayank suggested, why aren’t you organizing protests instead of wasting your day arguing with ‘sheep’? It is because you are lazy? Is it because you are a coward? Hmmmm… maybe you are the sheep?

  3. Rohan

    That’s a shit analogy. Apple are so big and successful, even their shit products will be commercially successful atleast for the forseeable future.

    In football, it’s very easy to fall. Look at Chelsea. Give the resources they have and where they were just 2 years ago, did you really think they’d be struggling to make top 4? It could very easily be us.

  4. Mayank

    2301,

    Is it very surprising then, that some of us aren’t on other sites.

    Or do you think of LeGorve as your personal playground? I’ll tell you It’d get very boring if everyone fucked off to Arseblog, ACLF or any other site that reflected their views to a T.

    Anyway really am off.

  5. SDE

    Gunner2301,

    Good point about Apple..Here..here

    We should do what I call a Rick Parry on Wenger,Frogmarch him out of the Emirates..

    The only saving grace is if Wenger does the honourable thing and resigns..One can call it an honourable discharge for services rendered.Let us remember him for the first seven years,not for the last seven atrocious years..At least Liverpool-or Rick Parry had the wherewithal to literally walk Houllier out of Liverpool-Anfield Gates,after offering him a post upstairs in the boardroom,which he declined and a whole host of alternatives which allowed him to leave with his dignity somewhat intact.He refused all offers,so Parry did a Houllier ,i.e.frogmarched him out of Anfield.I’m afraid that’s what needs to happen to Wenger..Someone powerful enough in the Boardroom,and resourceful enough to do a Houllier,i.e frogmarch Wenger out of the emirates stadium..Sad but this is what needs to happen to preserve the life and continuity of the club and to take Arsenal to the next level.When George Graham was unceremoniously dumped like a sack of potatoes,Arsene Wenger in his first 7 years took us to the next level,unfortunately the last 7 years has seen us regress such that,he has managed to brainwash the fans into thinking that finishing fourth is not only an achievement in its own right ,but also in fact an illusionary trophy to be proud of.Time for a new kid on the block to take over the reins and elevate us to the next level.

    Au Revoir Monsieur Wenger

  6. Keyser

    “In any event..if I moved to a new stadium,to generate extra income,then I sir would invest in collectible cars that appreciate in value,not clapped out,here today,gone tomorrow cars that give no value whatsoever.Just eat into my resources and depreciate at a rate of knots..And in the end prove difficult to get rid of…”

    I missed this aswell SDE, sorry mate, I can’t quite get my head around it though, like how would that translate to football and Arsenal ?!

  7. Gunner2301

    Mayank

    Everyone here has different views that’s what makes the site. If people visit other sites so be it, but if you make an argument then you should be prepared to back it up. My voice isn’t any louder than anyone elses. I write in text like everyone else and this isn’t my playground just like it isn’t the playground of anyone else. If you believe something hold your corner and defend it that’s all that I;m saying. If holes start to appear in your arguments you’re either going to look stupid or will resort to distraction tactics like Keyser. Thing is we’re all here debating every view is different and that’s how it should be.

  8. SDE

    Rohan,

    That’s because chelski have a meddling tsar that is obsessed with winning the champions league at all costs..And is impatient..Hence the systematic hiring and firing of managers,which in the long run does destabilise the club.That is rather an extreme example..
    That said,I would love for Wenger,to try and implement his 10 year youth building policy under roman at chelski,whilst happily collecting a stupendous £7million a year.Do you think roman,would entertain such idealistic romantic notions!! It’s good to dream my friend,it’s good to dream..

  9. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    I think that’s to do with citing the move to a new stadium in order to compete and have top quality players which he would do because they tend to appreciate in value whereas if you over pay average players you’re on a hiding to nothing and won’t make a return and struggle to offload them leaving them to sap the lifeblood out of your finances like certain players are doing at Arsenal who contribute nothing to the effort of advancing the Club.

  10. SDE

    Keyser-you like your distracting tactics..You were the one that related it to the stadium..The original question is below,so for the umpteenth time answer the question directly..

    “If you lived in a neighbourhood where all your neighbours had a minimum collection of 7 cars on their drive.And you my friend were on a princely sum of £50,000 per year.
    Would you mortgage yourself to the eyeballs, so that you too can have 7 cars like your neighbours,even though you were not deploying your resources efficiently(taking into account depreciation costs,maintenance costs..etc,etc)..
    I mean would you be driving all 7 cars at the same time?”

  11. Keyser

    “In any event..if I moved to a new stadium,to generate extra income,then I sir would invest in collectible cars that appreciate in value,not clapped out,here today,gone tomorrow cars that give no value whatsoever.Just eat into my resources and depreciate at a rate of knots..And in the end prove difficult to get rid of…”

    So what’s this bit about ? SDE

  12. SDE

    Gunner2301,

    Keyser would like any car,in fact he would like a lot ofcars,simply because other clubs have loads of cars..
    He would turn his nose at collectibles that have value,and maximise efficiency of one’s resources-cos they are not sustainable!!But nonetheless lots of cars,cos other clubs have lots of cars..!!

    I hope you don’t work in finance keyser..cos if you do..boy you need help along with chummy mate wenger..I see the apple doesn’t fall to far from the tree..

  13. Keyser

    Actually how about what sort of players represent Collectible Cars ?1 Heh, I feel like such a bimbo, I’m not even blonde, ahahahahahahaha…

  14. azed

    If we had spent to keep Cesc and Na$ri, it would have been a one time spending spree cos the guys are young and have a lot of years ahead and by the time they are aging, Afobe, Aneke and co would be ready.

  15. SDE

    Keyser,

    You can’t even keep track of your own arguments..You just like the sound of your voice,or in this case the look of your comments..You are a clone of Wenger..

    Here to refresh your memory,as you my friend have a chronic case of amnesia..

    “we compete in a league that has such wastage that you can’t help but be drawn into it”

  16. Gunner2301

    Keyser

    It depends, I’m sure Messi has appreciated in value since he’s been in the Barca team, Piquet most of the Barca players, Rooney since he joined United. Kompany, Tevez, Silva. Ronaldo won’t have or Torres because they were sold at inflated prices. You could also say that young players could appreciate in value but he did say collectible implying special quality, which few young players show.

  17. Keyser

    Yeah, thanks again mate, what sort of players represent collectible cars though ? That’ll appreciate in value ?!

  18. Gunner2301

    “we compete in a league that has such wastage that you can’t help but be drawn into it”

    That sounds like you’re excusing the wastage really. You’ve half dug your own grave with that one.

  19. Gunner2301

    It would be nice if we could say

    we compete in a league where there are so many teams fighting for the first position that you can’t help but be drawn into it.

    That doesn’t sound like an excuse more like an intent.

  20. Keyser

    Gunner2301 – So basically quite young players ?! Don’t know if SDE mean’t that though because he said Colectible Cars, it’s ok, maybe he can clear it up for us.

    “That sounds like you’re excusing the wastage really. You’ve half dug your own grave with that one.”

    erm, why ?!

  21. SDE

    Here Keyser..Let me refresh your memory some more..

    My original quote..
    You can go forward and backward in time surmising about how much money was at one’s disposal..It’s part conjecture..
    All I will say is this,there is huge wastage,huge inefficiency happening under Wenger watch’s..
    Sometimes it’s not how much wealth one has at one’s disposal,but one’s cost base,and how efficiently you deploy those resources available..There’s an old yankee saying, that one would rather change up four quarters for one dollar,if it helps get the job done more efficiently.Translated if you can sell four average players(who are eating up wages and other associated costs),for one world class quality player,who brings more to the table than the other 4 mediocre players..That’s what you call using resources efficiently..
    Unfortunately outside 4,or 5 quality players currently at arsenal,the remaining 25 odd mediocre players are what one would term excessive wastage.Not being deployed effectiently by Monsieur Wenger..So my question is,is it about the funds available to wenger now,or years gone by,or how he deploys them?

  22. SDE

    Keyser–Wengers Lovechild your reply!!

    How have you concluded this exactly because we’ve got a few fringe players on a decent wage, it’s a league wide problem really, and that’s the biggest problem, we compete in a league that has such wastage that you can’t help but be drawn into it.

  23. Gunner2301

    Because you’re trying to defend the indefensible. Again if we are running a self sustaining model, self-sustaining and waste are not compatible, regardless of what other Clubs are wasting, they;re not the ones pushing self sustainability.

  24. SDE

    Young players with the potential to appreciate in value,or players of renowned talent,that can still hold their value ,or depreciate at a lesser rate,than your bog-standard players who have no value…

    Quite simply you pedantic so&so,so..
    If you had £10k,and had a choice between buying a VW, or a Ford Fiesta..What choice would you make?

  25. Gunner2301

    SDE

    It’s definitely about how the resources are used or misused in this case. A 130mill wage bill with only 1 world class player has massive wastage all over it. Our wage bill should be more in line with Spuds than United.

  26. SDE

    Agreed Gunner2301,
    And if our wage bill is closer to utd’s,then surely a return of some silverware is a decent tangible return,in order to benchmark against how efficient those resources are being adequately deployed..

  27. Keyser

    “If you had £10k,and had a choice between buying a VW, or a Ford Fiesta..What choice would you make?”

    Are those Collectible Cars then ? Preach, breduin, Preach.

  28. Gunner2301

    Oh Daniel

    I missed you’re post. You said I’m a coward. Like I said to some fool the other day. When you’re celebrating an Arteta goal consider he wouldn’t have been here if cowards like me and many others didn’t put pressure on Wenger. Talk about glory hunters. You don’t like to do the dirty work but you’ll quite happily ride on the back of those that do the dirty work for you? Real sheep with no conviction.

  29. SDE

    That’s ‘cos of wenger’s socialist principles..He believes if all players are on similar type wages,it creates unity and harmony in the squad,and makes the wage bill to be kept at a sustainable level..Phew,well he blew that warped ideal out of the water,with a wage bill of something approaching 60-65% of turnover and rising over the years..And players deciding to sit out the rest of their contracts,rather than move on,or fight for their rightful place in the team..Breeding complacency,and no passion..A somewhat laissez faire attitude.The result 7 years of no trophies,just a p&l statement to parade everyear on an open-top bus parade..Laughable

  30. SDE

    No Keyser..you lovechild of wenger!!

    It was a simple question,to understand how you would employ the funds available to you efficiently?
    You could not even answer that question,without resorting to tomfoolery..

  31. SDE

    Keyser

    Simple question:
    “If you had £10k,and had a choice between buying a VW, or a Ford Fiesta..What choice would you make?”

    PS..They are not collectibles..but await your answer to the above..

  32. Daniel

    Assumptions:

    1) That I agree with Wenger’s transfer policy
    2) That I was not calling for signings
    3) That you had any influence, whatsoever, in the signing of Arteta

  33. SDE

    Gunner2301

    Your link,relates to my earlier comment I put forward to Keyser-Wengers Lovechild, which was

    SDEApril 15, 2012 19:54:17

    How about this approach..A manager is on £7 million a year,thats about £49 million on average over a 7 year period..Let’s call it £50 million..Which happens to coincide with our 7 year trophy barren spell?Bearing in mind wenger is something like the 2nd/3rd highest paid manager in the EPL,possibly in the top 7 in europe…Now when you look at what other managers are earning in relation to wenger and what they are delivering in terms of silverware..Would you say Wenger is delivering Value for Money,compared to his peers?If you were the owner of a business and you wanted the best man for the job, a director with a track record,and you paid top dollar.Would you be happy to pay this man over a 7 year period an amount in the region of £50 million,without him being made /held accountable or delivering results?When you know,there are other candidates out there,who deliver tangible results,not potential results with a significant degree of success?

  34. SDE

    Keyser,

    It’s amazing you play dumb when it suits,then the pseudo Einstein,when it comes to defending wenger and his enablers..A tip,go google the term..You my friend are a funny chap..Have you started organising pilgrimage tours for Monsieur Wenger yet..?

  35. Gunner2301

    Daniel

    1. What have you done about it
    2. What have you done about it
    3. I’m not talking about me personally but all of us who oppose Wengers position who put pressure on him before and after the Man U defeat. Arteta was just a reference. I mean the additional players he bought beyond the ones he was planning to buy.

  36. SDE

    Daniel,

    Quite simply,cos he and his merry band of enablers on the board have their snouts in the trough..That’s why..
    And the peasants as PHW indirectly refers to the fans are unfortunately paying through the nose,in the mistaken belief,that change is around the corner,and that we are two,or 3 signings away from competing with the top teams..
    Back in the days,they would call this daylight robbery,now its akin to extortion,what with the clubs policy on season ticket renewals,and empty promises..

  37. Daniel

    1). I am not entirely sure how that is relevant because an opinion does not imply action. What have you done?
    2). Again, not that it is relevant but I sent a livid email and I have not purchased any Arsenal merchandise in years. What have you done?
    3). If that’s the case then I was equally influential.
    What it comes down it is that I do not agree with Wenger’s transfer policy and and was disgusted with the summer; therefore, assumptions…

  38. Gunner2301

    Wenger has too much influence in the Club. Being the chief architect of project youth and the sustainable model the board feel that there is nobody else who could do what he has done and bring in the financial returns that he has, fuck the football they;ll turn a blind eye to that as long as he helps them to fatten the cow that’s the main thing.

    Just like there are fans thinking there’s no life after Wenger there will be those on the board who cannot imagine life without him. He has delivered top 4 which is probably all they are asking him to do and see anything above that as a bonus. This demonstrates that it’s all about CL money and nothing else.

    He’s washing their hands and their washing his it’s a marriage made in heaven as far as their concerned.

  39. SDE

    Daniel,

    I believe the best thing that can happen to Arsenal is if we finish 5th,or 6th..Sad I know,but true..This will now set the cat amongst the pigeons..Essentially there is a power struggle at arsenal..And what is uniting the various factions on the board,or management level is that 40 million CHAMPIONS LG Money,along with the other add-ons..Now the repercussions from not qualifying for champions league,will see a few disgruntled board members not happy with their lot and the status quo..They will want changes with immediate effect,heads will roll,there will be infighting,they will look for a scapegoat..At this time,wenger will face the wrath of the board members,maybe he will be their sacrifical lamb and be ousted as a result..Remember managers have been sacked for far less at Arsenal..e.g.Terry O’neil,Stewart Houston,Bruce Rioch..Recall all that George Graham did for us,and the board delivered his head on a platter to the FA,in that bung investigation..Wenger is conveniently hiding behind this so called power struggle..But they will turn,if he fails to keep that gravy train running smoothly..
    The days of finishing 5th are coming,and so is wenger’s time!!

  40. Gunner2301

    Daniel

    I stopped going to matches 3 seasons ago. First home matches then away matches. I cancelled my Arsenal credit card don’t purchase any merchandise or anything Arsenal related. Ok I apologise for my assumptions. But saying that I can’t be happy when Arsenal win due to my hatred of Wenger is a tad far. Of course I can celebrate a win but I’m not swayed by short term results. I didn’t take the decisions I took lightly.

    Maybe I look at things deeper than most but to me Wenger has burned his bridges and I was a massive Wenger fan up until about 5 years ago. However the constant lying, the unnecessary spin and deceit means I am not supporting the Club financially and not attending matches while he’s still our manager.

    As an individual I’ve done as much as I can do for now. On the matter of protesting, I will do if I feel it will create any traction, the black bin bag idea was a non-starter, and would have done more harm than good, but if there’s a well organised group that has the same agenda I’ll join.

  41. JOPPAAAAAAAA

    Just don’t understand the Wenger worshipping that goes on. So many AKBs on here (including Pedro!).

    LOL, had to chuckle to myself earlier. Thinking back to the defeat against QPR with comments on here blaming Pedro for being too positive and that it was his fault. Brilliant.

    I certainly wouldn’t be against a new manager coming in.

  42. Gunner2301

    I’m quite disappointed in Pedro. He hasn’t responded to not one of my questions about his post. if you’re prepared to write it Pedro you should be willing to defend it that’s all I have to say.

  43. SDE

    Gunner2301,

    Same here,I stopped attending Arsenal matches 2 seasons ago..The last match I attended was the game against Braga champions league,when cesc was there..
    Even though we won,that was it for me!!
    A team of flat track bullies,that flatter to deceive..
    But when the heat is on,and the pressure intensifies,they crumble like cupcakes..season in,season out.
    It is not to the team that I attribute/apportion blame,given flaws in their make-up,but to the man that recruits & manages the team,and to the lacksidaissical enablers of a management board that sanction this sad continuation of affairs..
    To go to St James Park(Newcastle) & surrender a 4 goal lead,defies belief..Then to lose a cup final of a so-called mickey mouse trophy that usually wenger would not touch with a barge-pole.
    A final we lost -to a relegated team managed by a useless manager of sorts,who happens to be currently doing his level best to relegate another well-run club,hoovering above the trap-door.. beggars belief.To top it-off ,towards the end of the season,when Man Utd vs Barcelona are facing each other in the champions League at Wembley,for Wenger to turn and around and say we Arsenal were the only team in Europe to beat the 2 finalists of the CL final,just highlighted to me,he has lost the plot!!
    These are just some examples..But I will not purchase any merchandise of Arsenal’s,until Wenger exits out of the emirates.

  44. Gunner2301

    Might I add. When I do protest it won;t be directed at Wenger it will be at Kroenke who will in turn put pressure on Wenger it’s the only way to achieve the changes needed, no point protesting against the monkey at the bottom of the tree.

  45. SDE

    Gunner2301,

    Don’t think Kroenke will give a hoot..As long as his investment is turning over a decent level of return..Don’t think he would give a toss about what the masses are thinking so much.As I said before,arsenal need to finish outside of the top 4 for a number of seasons,combined with affirmitive action..i.e. fans voting with their feet in order to accelerate change..Fans don’t realise their true potential and the impact they can have in the running of this club!!

    The old saying goes,it takes years to build a core client base,and seconds to lose them…

  46. Gunner2301

    Maybe not SDE. But putting pressure on Wenger will just see the board jump in to protect him thereby protecting themselves. If Kroenke is put under pressure especially if news from here gets back to the US? He would be ridiculed by the other sports owners and it would give the fans of his other franchises food for thought so he would rather nip any World wide protest starting against him and may be happy to sacrifice Wenger to save his own skin and make some concessions in the process. I can’t see what else would make him blink.

  47. SDE

    Gunner2301,

    You might have a point..But it’s a long call..Just wish wenger would make life easier for the fans who clearly have the best interest of the club at heart,just to make a dignified exit..
    And let a new kid on the block,take the reins,freshen things up a bit,and show some serious ambition..

  48. SDE

    Funny how Villa are in a relegation dog fight and Mcleish wheels in a bunch of kids..Me thinks if they get relegated,he can conveniently use the kids as a scapegoat!!

  49. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Pedro’s question which essentially asks would we swap Liverpools position to ours… (Of course they have not won it yet.. and the Chavs will be favourites!)
    prompted me to have a look at the FA Cup winners since the PL started to see where they finished in the league.

    Reproduced below.. The trend is very clear to see.. The vast majority of winners came from the top 4 clubs so the answer is clear to me.. We should be doing both! (and we did once!). Staying in the top 4 and picking up the odd cup along the way. As I answered earlier I think we should be challenging for the Title and CL. Challenging means simply that.. in the frame, coming close, winning the title once in a while, maybe grabbing a CL? (And a few domestic cups in there somewhere).

    What I simply mean by this is that we finished 3rd in 2008 on 83 points and only 4 behind the winners.. there for the grace of god and a bit more luck and a good signing or two we could have snatched it…. That was really ‘challenging’. This year even if we finish 3rd we will most likely be 15 points off the pace with a mid-70′s points total. NOT challenging..

    Here’s the FA Cup winners list with their final league position.

    1992 Liverpool – 6th
    1993 Arsenal – 10th
    1994 Man Utd – 1st
    1995 Everton – 15th
    1996 Man Utd – 1st
    1997 Chelsea – 6th
    1998 Arsenal – 1st
    1999 Man Utd -1st
    2000 Chelsea – 5th
    2001 Liverpool – 3rd
    2002 Arsenal – 1st
    2003 Arsenal – 2nd
    2004 Man Utd – 3rd
    2005 Arsenal – 2nd
    2006 Liverpool – 3rd
    2007 Chelsea – 2nd
    2008 Portsmouth – 8th
    2009 Chelsea – 3rd
    2010 Chelsea – 1st
    2011 Man City – 3rd
    2012 Chelsea or Liverpool.. 6th & 8th presently… hahahah!

  50. Keyser

    Lurch LeRouge – Haha, You should’ve let him work it out for himself, or maybe the lack of a reply means he already has.

    Depreciate/ Appreciate ?!

  51. Lurch LeRouge

    Depreciate initially then reach a stable value and in time inflation will make them incredibly expensive again.

    Last of the oil burners.

    A 1960′s Aston Martin that retailed at £20k can now be worth more than £250K.

    Fine cars are like wine.

  52. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Lurcharooo!

    You think the Veyron will be worth more than its purchase price in 10-15 years?

    1.7m dollars (US) for the ‘basic’ version & 2.4m dollars for the Super Sport! :-)

  53. SDE

    Thomas its up for grabs..

    Add to that,that we have lost 9 games so far this season..Hardly call that remotely challenging..Throw in the number of goals conceded this season 41 goals and counting- 7 less than Aston Villa-48 goals conceded and lying in 15th place says it all really..And I believe our current position really distorts how far we are from being considered a top team challenging for both domestic and european honours..Our position pretty much papers over the widening cracks developing at the club..I believe if chelsea had not self imploded under AVB,and liverpool had a decent manager and bought decent players,we as fans would be up in arms..The fact RVP has managed to complete a season for the first time ever and single handedly saved us,and outside of the top two places other teams this season have been crap,just implies wenger has got away with it for another season.

  54. Lurch LeRouge

    Yeah it equates to football if you look hard enough and force it.

    The Veyron won’t be worth ‘more’ but it won’t be worth ‘less’. Don’t forget in the time it takes to become vintage one has the opportunity to use it, extracting maximum intrinsic value. Ok it’s cost money to service and maintain but you have to factor the pleasure it gives the owner and how time rich/poor the owner is.

    Hazard is a Veyron. Neymar is a Zonda…. Expensive, collectible, high entertainment value and slowly appreciate in value (but also in maintenance costs which makes it about equal). If they become legends they are priceless, ie immortal.

  55. SDE

    Keyser,I’m done debating with you..if you call it that..

    You exhaust me..You are like a tempestuous, nauseating twat,who needs locking up in a dark room..Eventually once you simmer down,after being ignored for a while,you eventually come to your senses..Solitary confinement is too good for you..

  56. follow the money

    i don’t quite understand the continued Wenger out brigade. I wanted him out too but this end of season has proved to me that finally he has learned something, about not running players into the ground to the point they can’t perform from Feb to end of season, about how important veterans are to a run-in, about how important veterans are to lead the youngsters, etc. My main problem with him was how we collapsed every season in Feb. It showed an unbelievable naivety regarding injuries and regarding how many games players can perform at a top level. Without his bungling the transfer window last summer and how it ruined our early games we would be right there at the top of the league. Spuds and Chelsea and Pool are showing how hard it is to stay in the top four consistently. If we got rid of Wenger we might get lucky with another Graham but we also might very well turn into a mid table team. And with the Podolski business it looks as if he may have learned his lesson about the transfer window too by getting it done early.

  57. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Hazard is a Veyron. Neymar is a Zonda….

    However, there are a few Skoda Octavia’s prancing around as Porche Cayenne’s!

    Keyser April 15, 2012 23:52:03
    How does it translate to football ? Does it ?!

    The fastest car (Man City) won’t always win the race,,, But a car close to being the fastest, (Squad) with a good driver (Manager) and support team (board) can win it too!

    My Auto analogy! :-)

  58. SDE

    Follow the Money..

    Business early..learned lessons..clearly you haven’t learned any given wengers track record..

    In the last 7 years when has he effectively done business early…?You’re nuts..And let me add if he does business early this year..it has nothing to do him learning his lesson from this season..

    To paraphrase Bill Clinton..If he does business early this year it’s because..drum rolls…

    It’s the Euros 2012 stupid…!!He’d rather try and spend 10 million now on a player,than risk that targeted player going to the euros,having a stormer of a tournament and subsequently his price skyrockets..And we all know wenger detests getting into a bidding war with a passion..I think you live in cuckoo land along with wenger..Reinforcements.!!
    You mean in wenger ‘s world,the yearly ritual of raiding barca’s youth academy

  59. Keyser

    Come on SDE, Thomas, Lurch, me we’re all discussing your analogy, were those the Collectible Cars you were talking about ?!

    Thomas – Are you saying Diaby’s a cut and shut job ? How can you tell ? Is it the irregular serial numbers on his chasis ?!

  60. Gunner2301

    follow the money

    Please don’t tell me you’ve fallen for Wengers crap again I’m disappointed.

    Running players into the ground – He killed Jack last season it’s RVP this season we are very fortunate his body has held up. Since Henrys final couple of years we have been relying and overplaying 1 key player every season. This season is no different. How many players has Wenger played from the whole squad this season? 16 if we;re lucky and had we not had injuries to our fullbacks how many then?

    He has realised the importance of veterans to bring the youngsters through. That’s why he want’s nothing to do with the invincibles. Keown has basically been snubbed if you read between the lines of what he’s saying, Viera thought better of coming because he knew Arsene doesn;t listen. And the older players we have what have they won? Arteta had never played CL. They can stabilise us but don’t imagine they are of the quality required to take us forward.

    if he does anything early its due to the Euros and the price increase he would be loathed to pay. A tight man will always look for bargains. Again he’s being led by the finances and not by what is required and when.

    If we got rid of Wenger I think you’d be surprised at how well we’d do with a new manager and the resources he would have available to him. There’s nothing to fear and what’s going to happen after 2014? We’ll have no choice but to have to face up to it.

  61. SDE

    Follow the money,

    As for running players into the ground,I think you’ll find his run out of quality players to run into the ground..The fridge is bare..

    PS..
    You think he is not running szech-the goalie into the ground..he will go the same way as the others.. 2years of non-stop playing,which will result in fatigue,complacency,loss of form,zapping of confidence,and we are back to square one..on the goalie front..Why does he not address the goalkeeping situation?offer some competitio?,get an experienced goalkeeper that szech can learn from..This is not an on the job-training exercise..Top teams are built from the defence,as wenger will attest to when he inherited george grahams back four..You cannot hope to win any trophies,if you are conceding 41 goals in the premier league to date,and the defence year-on-year is getting progressively worse..
    Losing 9 matches in a season,and saying we are two or three signings from competing with the best..It goes way deeper than that…

  62. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Jeez Keyz… I never mentioned Diaby! Was that a parapraxis? ;-)

    I’d rather liken Diaby to, what they call in the trade, ‘a monday car’. A car that is from a good pedigree but just one of those cars that never performs and constantly breaks down! When all your buddies have the same car and have no trouble at all from it!

    Truth is the car park at London Colney is full of expensive cars on training days. The football abilities of some of the drivers of those cars don’t necessary match the pedigree of the car they’re driving! But I suppose that allegation could be levelled at most PL Clubs.. But at Arsenal we can afford more expensive cars than most of our PL buddies!

    .

  63. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Where’s Kwikfit when you need him to keep us moving along with the 70′s and 80′s classics?

  64. SDE

    keyser,

    Talking of car analogys, let’s say you are a clapped out old banger,rendered unusable,in no fit state to grace our streets/roads.A health and safety hazard to all and sundry,therefore not roadworthy.A complete write-off consigned to the scrapheap and crushed to smithereens…

    PS..Not what it says on the tin!!!Previous owner,a Redknapp cast-off!!

  65. Keyser

    SDE – Bit harsh, trying to think of grotesquely obese cars now, I dunno what category I’d fit into really.

  66. Thomas, it's up for grabs now..

    Of course we did once have a Bentley in the team! Maybe we should re-sign him and a few more..

    Here’s my dream team for The Arse.. Some top Marques in there, a few workhorses, a one or two run-arounds! About right.. we have a Rolls, a Ferrari, a McLaren…

    Simon ‘Rolls’ Royce (Gillingham)
    Chris Morgan (Sheffield United)
    Matteo Ferrari (Everton)
    Andy McLaren (Ayr United)
    Keita Suzuki (Urawa Red Diamonds)
    David Bentley (Blackburn Rovers)
    Jody Morris (Millwall)
    Keisuke Honda (VVV Venlo)
    Tony Ford (Grimsby Town)
    Allan Smart (Watford)
    ‘SEAT’ Leon McKenzie (Coventry City)

    Buy them all!

  67. SDE

    Keyser..

    Nah you’d pollute the environment with that hot dog van of yours..You’d be causing untold damage to the ozone layer..We’d have to dismantle you,and sell you as scrap..

  68. gnarleygeorge9

    Pedro

    I voted CL. Why? Coz of everything you have said.

    When Arsenal was looking @ being 13 points behind Spuds, & obviously outa top 4, the vultures would have been circling. Being in the CL is the envy of every club, & even though opo supporters wouldn’t admit openly, they envy Arsenal for all it has.

    1. For its 16 years straight of CL footie;
    2. For its state of the art stadium. The others are dreaming if they think they can build better in the current economic climate; &
    3. Arsenal has a prestige postcode. FLICK the Kings Road :lol:

    P.S Didn’t Kenny D go on record recently daying he would trade a cup win 4 CL footie? Enough said.

  69. Bade

    Arsenal fans are knobs with no pride and heritage

    Hence why opting a useless CL over 2 trophies

    It’s not being smart, it’s called being wallowed in mediocrity and loser by your soul and essence

    Go support BCSB

  70. Bade

    Still the real question should be one of two

    Looking back at 10 years of CL and trophy drought and then judging would you swap it with “few cups”

    Looking ahead 10 years with trophy drought and CL participation, and trying to figure out is it success for you, will this club still be appealing for sponsors

    We’re already becoming less appealing, due to lack to trophies, and albeit being CL constant participant

  71. luke

    GK- Schezney, Schwarzer/Sorenson, Mannone,
    RB-Sagna, Jenkinson,
    CB- Vermaelen, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Djourou, Bartley/Miquel
    LB- Santos, Aly Cissokho (8-9million)
    CDM- Song, Coquelin, Frimpong
    CM- Arteta, Ramsaaay, Diaby,
    CAM- Belhanda (10-15 million), Rosicky, Wilshere
    RW-Oxlade, Theo, Hoilett (Free)
    LW-Podolski (12 million), Miyachi, Gervinho, Benayoun (hopefully)
    CF- Robin Van Persie, Girioud/Matias Suarez (10-15 million),Joel Campbell/Afobe

    Wouldnt be a bad summer. Cissokho, Sorenson, Belhanda, Girioud, Podolski, Hoilett, Benayoun, with Almunia, Shitlachi, Gibbs, Shitmakh, and that Park guy leaving, oh yeah, Arshavin, Vela, and Bendtner too.

  72. gnarleygeorge9

    Bade

    Cheer up sunshine :cool: You sound down in the dumps about Arsenal. Maybe you should go & support man u with all their cups & billion euros debt.

    Arsenal is still very appealing to me, so no I won’t be acting on your request.

  73. jay2oh

    would like to just add that those fans not respecting the minutes silence yesterday should be disgusted with themselves. Despicable.