Good morning sports fans. Monday night beers eh? With hindsight, a choice poorer than a 5 year Denilson contract. I spent last night hanging out with the members of the AST and I have many things to report back to you…
Firstly, if you want the detail behind the members survey, you can find it all on the AST website.
I’ll run you through some of the highlights…
The amount of people who returned the survey was 382. Not bad out of 850 members. The split of people who returned it was quite varied as well, you had 213 Gold members, 73 shareholders, 82 red members, 11 overseas, 14 away scheme… even 3 junior gunners took time out which is very sweet.
On the self-sustaining model, 51% backed keeping the status quo with 38% looking for further investment by the major shareholders.
96% of Arsenal fans backed keeping Fanshare going, not surprising really, we all like having a say, that’d be diluted massively if we didn’t have Fanshare.
The AST have more shares than the board combined.
Interestingly, 70% of Arsenal fans surveyed believed Red&White should be invited to the board. That’s up a whopping 30% on last year when the same question was asked. The realisation that Stan Kroenke is the poorer end of the Billionaire spectrum is finally coming home to roost. Usmanov could buy our club with a cheque, Stan has had to beg, borrow and steal to push this deal through.
I think part of the above is also based on the disappointment of KSE keeping so damn quiet. He’s not made statement of intent since taking over and I think that worries people. 80% think they should be more transparent.
On the footballing side, 37% of fans are highly unsatisfied with what they’re being served up. Only 11% felt that way last year, that is a massive increase. Only 22% are satisfied these days.
69% of fans think Wenger’s footballing philosophy takes too much precedent over trophies. 69% would like David Dein back to bring in some checks and balances.
78% of fans disagreed with the season ticket price hike. Fair play, that’s to be expected. 96% think their club is in danger of pricing them out of going, which is a very sorry state of affairs.
Safe standing areas anyone?
47% still felt they were getting good value for money though!
51% do not feel they have a strong sense of belonging to the club. That disconnect from the fanbase is definitely something many people spoke to me about last night, episodes like Nasri and Cesc only go to further enhance that feeling.
Now onto some off survey stuff…
We’re now into the elite league of spenders. We shouldn’t be knocking around with the Everton’s and Villa’s, but we are bottom of the elite. We’re top 8 in Europe for spending power.
Ways we could have given ourselves more spending power last year would have been to have finished 2nd which would have given us £2million more. If we’d won our group and landed a quarter-final slot in the Champions League that would have been an extra £4-5million.
Our commercial revenue sits at £220million.
- £90-100mill match day
- £85mill TV
- £45mill Commercial (£30 Commercial, £15mill Retail)
We have the 4th highest wage bill in the country. Traditionally that reflects your league position. If we finish above that position this year, we’ve outperformed financial expectations.
Saying we’ve got £100million cash in the bank is a fallacy. After all our expenses are taken out, we’re left at near enough break even. United earn a massive £50million more than us in commercial revenue, which is why there is such a massive shortfall.
Outgoings per years…
- £110million wages
- £20million loan
- £50million other costs (electricity, hotels, merchandise, stadium costs)
The gap between the £170mill and the £220mill revenue isn’t liquid cash. So we’re roughly breaking even.
Stadium Loan Debt breakdown…
Total build Cost £440million
- £220million Loan
- £10milion from Supporters
- £80million from ITV (10% stake in the club)
- £90million from the Emirates
- £55million from Nike (7 years with a 3 year contractual extension they took up) (The AST reckon the Nike deal at the time was a good one, others in the room disagreed)
Our current commercial revenue is £17.5 million a season. If we negotiated now, we’d be able to get and extra £32.5million a year.
Usmanov would and could come in a buy the club outright and pay off all the debt giving us a platform to compete. The AST say financial penalties make this a bad use of cash.
The AST were suggesting that in the 3 years we have to wait to renegotiate those commercials, it might be worth us speculating to accumulate. Nike aren’t going to want to do a massive deal with a team that isn’t competing at the highest level. Also, if we drop out of the Champions League, that would cost us a massive £25million a year.
Stan isn’t leveraging any debt against the club, but he’s also not investing a single penny of his money into the playing side.
On the salary side of things. We’re so high because we have such a massive squad and we pay the kids way more than they get elsewhere. Aaron Ramsey joined us in part because he was offered £500k more a year to join us over United. Sure, that looks like money well spent, but it wouldn’t if it were Denilson or the countless other failed youth products we have coming off the conveyor belt.
I actually asked what our wage bill would be if you pound for pound matched our squad with United’s. Apparently the AST know this wastage figure but they wouldn’t share it with me. It would be worth knowing wouldn’t it? If we didn’t work in this idealistic salary world that saw everyone kind of earning similar money, what would our wage bill be? £30million cheaper? That’d be a nice amount of money to free up…
Arsenal are at barely 20% of their commercial potential…
Manchester City doing that massive deal with Ethihad is causing concern because it effectively means FFP is dead. Are UEFA going to ask the questions they should be about that deal? Will they be kicked out of Europe? If they don’t, our self sustaining business model just becomes a best practice guide for business books. Not a competitive advantage. That would be a real shame.
Despite reports you may have read, 6,000 people haven’t given up their season tickets. What has actually happened is 2000 have sacked in their tickets and the normal 1 in 4 who take them up when offered has grown. People as high up as 13,000 on the list have managed to land themselves pairs of tickets this year. What the figures don’t take into account is the amount of loans and shares going on this year. My relatives found out the hard way what giving up your season ticket does when they packed it in after Zaragoza 95… people won’t make that mistake again so would rather sub out their seats until they see some investment.
Shows you that people are voting with their wallets… if the club won’t invest, why should the fans? What would that figure look like if we missed out on Champions League next year? We haven’t put a season ticket on general sales since we signed Bergkamp… lets hope it never gets to that!
£40million of Queensland money will work its way back into the club at some point… all profit
Nik B’s shirt number that was 52 represented the amount of pounds in thousands he earned a week last year. A pretty vulgar choice of number now I know that. Good riddance to him I say. I hope he has to share a bunk with Jan Koller in Germany. I know he’s retired, but Nik B deserves it.
My number is 12 Nik... guess why.
The two players every AST member singled out for departure if they mentioned names in the survey were Denilson… and Abou Diaby. Seems there is a lot of disdain for the Frenchman. That was a surprise to me!
Nasri & Cesc
There was a lot of debate around these two scoundrels. Basically, if we keep Nasri, that has an on cost of £25million. Yep, that’s our transfer proceeds account for next year blown. I understand that Wenger is trying to make a stand, but for me, he should be doing that with a player he can keep and sell on next year. Making a point that ultimately will cost the fans money is ludicrous. If you think about it… a 6.5% season ticket price rise raised about £5million this year. Does anyone fancy footing a 26% increase in ticket prices next year?
Not me.
We did get a bit of debate going about Cesc. I’m still unsure why people think we have to let him go for £35million. Outside of sentiment, there is no reason. If Barca don’t value him like Madrid did Ronaldo, that’s not our problem. Have him when you do value him, like after a massive injury to Xavi.
#FanPerks was a lot of fun yesterday, here are three of the best…
There was a problem connecting to Twitter.
Other than that, I don’t think I’ve got much else to share with you?
Le Grove held its own in the bar once again, last blog standing? I believe so. Hanging out with a Guardian journalist (@diggermattscott) with my iPad took my game to whole new levels. I want to say a big thanks to all the people I met last night, an absolute pleasure as always… and if you haven’t signed up for an AST membership, why not? There is so much value in what they do and as the survey pointed out, those who join feel more of a sense of belonging to the club than those who don’t… plus they give away free beer and bar snacks.
WINNER.
See you in the comments.
AST Twitter attendees for your consumption:
- @TimPayton
- @10akhil
- @Darrenarsenal1
- @pjbish
- @David_0Leary
- @StevieGooner
Lurch, I think Dawkins even refers to this in his book. The fact is according to him religion is an evolutionary by-product of complex thinking. So in that respect yes it is hardwired. But there are a lot of things that were hardwired into our brains that we need to and indeed are able to change. Racism for one is pretty much hardwired but nonetheless it’s something that is losing its grip on the brain with every generation. Since he considers religion destructive at the core, just like but not to the same degree as racism he seems within his rights to try and fight it.
Tiarnan, yes of course intelligent aliens could have been responsible for life. But firstly, I think there is enough evidence to suggest that at best they could be responsible for the seeds of life and not actually engineering life in its current form.
Secondly and more importantly it’s a regressive argument… if aliens were responsible for life here how did they come about? Finally you have to start looking at the explanation for the beginnings. Perhaps abiogenesis.
yup panspermia my guess, when you factor just how many systems there are out there, the odds of being unique are too remote.
certainly won’t believe there’s any other organizing principle other than chaos, mixed with gravity and heat/light though.
Tiarnan,
The main argument isn’t whether theism or atheism are more conducive to a civil society. Even if it is proven that theism is, it won’t change the facts. And facts and theology often disagree with each other.
Yeah, I do know that. Bit disappointed, but he’s genuinely funny. Makes the most mundane things funny. Very upper middle-class humour.
The more we learn about the survival abilities of bacteria panspermia becomes a distinct possibility however we also have a lot to learn about how life may spark into….errr…. life so I’d like to sit on the fence for the moment
Ferguson the bastard on nasri:
—-
“I don’t think he is coming to United,” said manager Ferguson, speaking at the start of his side’s United States tour.
“That is all I can tell you. I think he has agreed to go somewhere else.
“That is his decision,” added Ferguson, when asked what he thought of Wenger’s stance. “He is the manager.
“If he stands by that decision, it is a brave one. I don’t know if the [Arsenal] directors will enjoy that one but it is possible. Maybe he will have to stay.”
———————————
What a cunt Ferguson is! How come is it his business and gets involved?? What an asshole!
Of course he doesn’t know a thing, he just lies to upset arsenal fans and play with the minds of the rest arsenal players and cause general trouble in our club..
What a asshole!
Dawkins is a fuckwith by the way…………
****
Tiarnan, youre oh so proper. “fuckwith”?!
Yeah I get why he’s fighting the fight Mayank, but there will always be control systems of some form or another…
I think you said it best when you identified him as the poster-boy, everyone loves a little fame and his older work only exposed him to academia. Now hes got a soapbox taller than his others and he’s sticking to it.
this was a good doco on the physiological manifestation of belief systems on our brains…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml
I disagree that racism’s on the wane, its just shifted in codification. but that’s another conversation.
Anyone have any news ?
bloody fence sitter Tinyspuds…
simple proteins only need some warm fluid and stability to develop.
@Lurch: if I think like Dawkins, there’s no reason for an organised entity called “religion” to tell you how you want to represent your inner God. Thats why he/she gave us that “freedom”.
I believe being the current notion of God, being:
IT who knew everything yet couldnt experience it, and materialised us out of his/her thoughts while at the same time losing of its unity to do just that, experience in as many ways as possible, as many species as possible. No Good, no Bad. No judgment, no paradise. Hell and paradise are what you make of your own present.
There shouldn’t be anyone to tell you what God is like, what rule to follow, which church to go to.
If God created us, wether through Aliens, or without, “it” didn’t print a book of rules to go with it. That’s a man’s manipulation of myths to ensure his control over his empire at the least. He/She just said go and play in the garden. do whatever you like. period.
piersmorgan Piers Morgan
Hearing that #Wenger may have persuaded @cesc4official AND @Nanas08 to stay – amazing if true. #Arsenal #GoonerPower
3 hours ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply
https://twitter.com/#!/RealGervinho
In most advanced societies being a racist would actually lower the chances of finding a mate. So in that respect I expect it to vanish within a few generations.
@ Lurch
Yeah sorry. Can you pass me a cushion. My arse is a bit sore
rohan-
piers morgan? really? i guess he is a journo…
Barcelona look to have won the race to sign Udinese winger Alexis Sanchez ahead of a number of Premier League clubs.
Manchester City, Manchester United and Chelsea have all been linked with the Chile international at various stages over the summer, while Inter Milan and Napoli were also credited with an interest.
European champions Barca always looked to have the edge over their rivals, with Spain being Sanchez’s preferred destination.
And now Quique Pina, Udinese’s Spanish representative, has confirmed that the Catalan giants are on the verge of completing the transfer for the sought-after 22-year-old.
Udinese have placed a 50million euros (£44.6million) price-tag on the head of Sanchez, who is currently on international duty at the Copa America.
The deal is understood to be cash only, with no players making the move from Camp Nou to Serie A as part of the transfer.
Pina, who is also president of Granada, said: “Alexis has decided to play in Spain and now the matter is practically closed”
Rohan: I can tell you one thing, I really have trouble understanding his french at times …
Mayank says:
July 12, 2011 at 21:05
In most advanced societies being a racist would actually lower the chances of finding a mate. So in that respect I expect it to vanish within a few generations.
——
Thats seriously silly, gust a cursrory study of how genotypes and phenotypes work would rule that out…
————
Zeus – I ctually have a lisp and sometimes write with one – I of course meant “cunt” not fuckwith.
That’s a fake account apparently..
at least he confimed his signing 7 hours ago.
I like “J’espère que le ventilateur m’accueillir et je serai sûr de vous divertir avec mon travail.”
If I actually translate it:
I hope my “fan” welcome me and Im sure to entertain you with my work.
“Fan”, as in pc fan, argos/dixons fans, not supporter, which is quite funny, looks like he’s using an online translator
)
(not surprising, there are 60 different dialects in my birth country
What do people from the Ivory Coast think of Gervinho? Is he one of their star players after Yaya and Dogbreath?
the Real Gervinho speaks french properly
http://gervinho.over-blog.com/5-categorie-11173929.html
It’s twitter. Young Guns says it’s legit, IvoryGoonz.
Jack Wilshere tweets in equally bad English. JET tweets in some other language even.
He is definitely our growing star.
Just after Didier Drogba and the Toure Brothers.
Unlike Untold wrote, they are totally different players.
Gervinho is smaller (10 cms difference), much more cunning that Didier and not as strong, but definitely one of the best winger these days, and could well end up as a pure striker, but he still needs more composure in front of goal.
Spirit wise they are alike, fighters.
(I actually watched Didier play myself in Marseille when he almost got OM the supreme title, and I was born same city Abidjan just a month later)
Gervinho though was born just a few bus stop from Abidjan itself, but should be the future captain once Drogba retires, which is what makes me think he will be first played a s a winger, and end as a striker to replace RVP when he goes.
I believe if Wenger plays him well, that he could actually be better than Drogba. He already scored more goals than Didier – but hey, the main thing Didier and I would say about Gervinho, being 10years older, is “keep on son, you’re the future Star of our country, and you can bring us back to get our first CAN since 1992″
you wouldnt use “ventilateur” in french, no matter what in such a sentence.
I’m sure Young Guns knows best.
could have been setup by his english pa though
do you think LE Idiot will tell our players that its ok to shoot next Season? I think he needs to be taught the idea of football is to put the round thing between the oppositions white sticks NOT to make the most passes in a game.
hmm, that’s a pretty glowing recommendation then. Cheers.
Right then, I’m off.
Im kidding Rohan about his tweeter, might well be him, he speaks french like a spanish cow …
Tiarnan, that assumes racism is genetic. Which I doubt. It’s memetic more than anything else. Since all races are the same species there can’t be a genetic base for racism. That’s like saying if poetry becomes obsolete and negative in society at large, we would still have poets. Sure we would still have people who have the ingredients to make a good poet but they would not become poets.
Not a great analogy but there you go.
Sorry, but it’s quite late here so I’ll have to go to sleep. Nite.
is it real or fake
seriously? ventilateur is a bad automated translation for fan
its not him posting in french
unless he was referring to that senegalese dance called “la dance ventilateur”
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7gz2c_ballet-africain-danse-du-ventilateu_music
this is the real one:
http://www.facebook.com/Gervinho?sk=wall
just skimed the posts,dawkins,all about pure logic a’int he.
anyone explain how that relates to trying to hang on to cesc
and nasri?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3691278/Robber-fed-Viagra-and-kept-bras-sex-slave-by-salon-owner.html
Evening fellas
Ok, I stop playing, it’s really his account, but I suspect his PA to interfer and sometimes post for him
Samir Nasri Official
@Nanas08 Samir Nasri Official
I just want tell you dont listen the newspaper and the rumours i will let you know if something happen
7 Juin via Twitter for BlackBerry®
@Keyser: why did she get arrested again?
Big Dave: final word on that, I cant say its him, cause really, he wouldnt use this word at all in that sentence, he’d just actually say “fan” or “supporters”.
But one thing for sure, Gervinho already knew back in may he was coming to Arsenal
http://video.lequipe.fr/video/football/foot-l1-gervinho-a-fait-son-choix/?sig=iLyROoafzivl
and this one is a really good one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXxg6Basyd8
IvoryGoonz – Maybe they just liked her style.
need to drum up a gervinho song;
let’s not do shit remixes of players gone by, though hey
to the st. trinians battle theme theme;
reference) ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FMrXW82YMI&feature=related
“he came to us from france (again!) and plays for ivory coast
he’s got a massive forehead and eats left backs for toast
and just when you thought your team was getting back in it
another goal for arsenal and “tottenham/other team name” are still shit
ger-vin-ho, ger-vin-ho, the forehead guy
ger-vin-ho, ger-vin-ho, he’ll make you cry”
in the last interview, here’s what he says:
“If I was a football team, Arsenal”
and that was when he was au Mans…
Gervinho and women:
“Im not married but im not single either”
Rcl,
That was a face palm moment. lol
ricky –
i’ll get meh coat…
me = Le Loner
I thought of him as a mix of Lion and Elephant.
The panache of a Lion, and the forehead of the Elephant
(just kidding Gervais, it’s just the haircut you had at world cup didnt help
IG,
I’ve not seen much of gervinho but it seems you have. In all honesty, do you rate him higer then walcott??
Rcl, it’s late i know. lol
evening
Hey Pedro, good post and nice to share some AST findings with other Gooners following Le Grove but you have to smart up and stop disclosing some conversation details which are more harmful than helpful to AFC when shared with public. You’re a smart guy, use your head a bit. It’s not about tweeting something first mate. We all need to pull together to help not to destruct. cheeio gooners
looks like manure are signing sneijder, 35m
Gervinho..ohahoh
Gervinho..ohahoh
Hes got a massive spam
I got this news from Pam….
gooby-
“There is nothing to update,” Branca said. “It’s not surprising Sneijder is wanted by other clubs, but we have received no formal offer, nor do we intend to wait for one.
“We know what we have to do and there are no meetings planned with his agent. Sneijder is not for sale.
“I signed his letter to be called up for pre-season training and our intention is not to sell any of our champions. However, if mega-galactic offers were to arrive, we would discuss them, but right now that is not the case.”
evening Gooby,
Ricky, In all honesty …
Walcott having played first team football at Arsenal since he was very young, he had an advantage on progression, but I think he should have been sent at least a year on loan to get more play time as a striker. Reaching Gervinho’s level as an Ivorian, is much more difficult than what Theo went through. Just compare their first academy and you’ll see what I mean. I rate for that reason Gervinho a little higher than Theo. Also, Theo won’t be our captain, while Gervinho has that charisma about him which could maybe lead him to be our captain as well as Ivory Coast’s.
They are both very quick, though Walcott is probably quicker on a full pitch, I believe they have similar acceleration rate. I think Gervinho is a much more instinctive player than Theo, much stronger, and he learns quick. So overall, I’d have Gervinho as starter, and bring in Walcott for either Van Persie or Gervinho, depending who is more tired or having a bad day.
I think he could well have a great impact like Arshavin had when he came, and that he could sustain it thoughout a season if Wenger plays it that way.
As it stands, I’d have for main team in pre-season before all sales:
Szczesny
Sagna – Koscielny – Vermaelen – Gibbs
Gervinho – Fabregas – Song – Nasri
Chamakh – Van Persie
Bench
Fabianski – Traore – Eboue – Ramsey – Wilshere – Walcott – Bendtner.
Yes, I’d sell Arshavin, Diaby, Denilson, Rosicky, Squillaci, Djourou, Bendtner. With all that money and the kitty left, I’d bring in Frey – Im sure Wenger could persuade Frey, but would he try to? if not Ospina (GK), Balzaretti (LB), Vertonghen (DC/DM), Mata (AML), Vidal or Fellaini (DM), and Giuseppe Rossi (ST)
That would be:
Ospina/Frey
Sagna – Vertonghen – Vermaelen – Balzaretti
Gervinho – Fabregas – Vidal/Fellaini – Mata
Chamakh – Van Persie
Bench:
Szczesny – Gibbs – Eboue – Song – Wilshere – Walcott – Rossi
who is this in ramseys no 16 kit ??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2014040/Jack-Wilshere-urges-Cesc-Fabregas-reject-Barcelona-switch.html?
@Gaston
“but you have to smart up and stop disclosing some conversation details which are more harmful than helpful to AFC when shared with public.”
Im not sure what conversation details Pedro disclosed, but nothing that is secret is good.
If you do believe secrecy has any kind of good effect, it doesn’t. You’re just delaying the evolution of your own soul, and harming others unconsciously in the process. Finally, nothing stay secret forever. Just man up and assume what you say or do, even if you do mistakes.
sorry Ivory I nicked off, yeah that’s a sound philosophy to abide to.
Ramsey I believe
http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/players/aaron-ramsey
i know ramsey is no 16 – but that pic doesnt look like him ….. does it? or is that just me….
mayank,
my point is racism is shifting from being about skin colour and more about consumer patterns and brand association, racism is/was only ever a physical representation of class war anyhow.
racism might die, its a meme after all, but a shit load of our society will have to change before its completely recognizable.
*unrecognizable.
no worries Lurch.
thanks, well, actually had an epiphany some time ago, but im not ready to talk about it yet, in a book maybe some day.
also, not sure if it fits D’s entire conception of atheism/theism, but Maria Magdalena marrying Jesus was not really the ideal fit for Constantine to sit his empire on, giving him a unique God status while Jesus only preached we are all Gods, we are all sons/daughters of God. He was right, he was just that. With a light.
But with an ex-hooker as first disciple and wife, “not a good example” they’ll say, lets remove it from the texts … (while God loves sex…) God would not create sex if he wanted us to feel guilty about it…
Constantine preferred to hide it, to enslave his people with a stronger, monotheist religion, and hide the actual Truth.
organised religions have destroyed so many lives without even learning a lesson, that is just a good justification for an anti-church crusade. If we were trying to make it even, if you judged church by its book, an eye for eye, tooth for a tooth, a life for a life, there wouldnt be any more “priests” on the planet.
But if I had to go on crusade myself, I wouldnt do it with weapons, or propaganda, just with love.
Deise, he had to beef up after injury, thats a normal process, and you can recognise his tattoo
@Lurch: and about “racism”, I’d sum up by tolerance.
I direct you to Haile Selassie’s speech at the “society of nations” put in music by Marley. He said it all so well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFvuo41AoMU
as long as we’ll look at each other like we are different, while we are all the same, no matter what difference we notice, or insist on, there’ll be always war. Wether it be blue eyes, black skin, ginger hair, or just the size of your hand.
until humanity has learned who we are, peace will in worst case only be a parody of democracy with forced-fed mash.
*in best case. sorry. Lurch, thats contagious.
right, gonna head to bed, long day tomorrow.
thats me dreaming Wenger this time didnt say 3 signings as his usual “maximum 3 players to not upset the squad” and that he was not counting Jenkinson and Olsson
Gervinho, Vertonghen and Vidal, at this stage, would do wonders for our morale and our title ambitions.
no offence but i can’t stand bob marley i’m afraid Ivory… never had an ear for reggae its too slow and passive for me, and politics in music leaves me cold…
the only belief system that makes sense for me are nietzchen.
I’m also quite partial to 442
*is nietzchen
wow, Song’s got malaysian chicks lusting for him on ssn
Spoken by Selassie, but written by Lorenzo Tazaz
Last May, in Addis Ababa, I convened a meeting of Heads of African States and Governments. In three days, the thirty-two nations represented at that Conference demonstrated to the world that when the will and the determination exist, nations and peoples of diverse backgrounds can and will work together. In unity, to the achievement of common goals and the assurance of that equality and brotherhood which we desire. On the question of racial discrimination, the Addis Ababa Conference taught, to those who will learn, this further lesson:
That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned; That until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man’s skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained; And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes that hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique and in South Africa in subhuman bondage have been toppled and destroyed; Until bigotry and prejudice and malicious and inhuman self-interest have been replaced by understanding and tolerance and good-will; Until all Africans stand and speak as free beings, equal in the eyes of all men, as they are in the eyes of Heaven; Until that day, the African continent will not know peace. We Africans will fight, if necessary, and we know that we shall win, as we are confident in the victory of good over evil.
Remeber who warned the UN of the real intentions of Hitler in 1938, yes that was Haile Selassie I
That speech is applicable to all societies, all continents, all colours.
you mean Nietzche I believe
tia i know your ‘out there’ put your cock down and put the slippers on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNQZGNtfPk&feature=youtu.be
nietzchein as in from the school of thought…as modernized by foucault, derrida, boudrillard etc…
christ i cant spell but you get me hopefully.
I kinda share lot of thoughts in common with Frederich.
Although one thing that doesn’t compute for me is his complete refusal of “nihilism”.
Nihilism, like everything else is needed.
we are not here to experience the same “happy” life over and over again.
we must experience/learn/remember all that is “bad” to actually know what is “good”. and without “bad”, the “good” would become without taste after a while.
f* me, 1 o’clock again… slept 4 hours last night…
can’t ever see a day when all ‘men’ will be equal, morality is for the masses unfortunately.
this transfer window is the most stressing I’ve ever gone through.
well, let’s rephrase that.
one day all humans will forget/accept/worhsip their differences. that would be boring if we were all equal and the same in a non-metaphysical way.
We are all equal as souls already.
Im not saying it will happen in a day, but I swear I’ll give a bit of my life towards it, if not all of it.
about Gervinho, what I meant by instinctive, was more that I believe like Didier D. he’s got the instinct to know where to go, and where the goal is. But like Didier, we need to refine his shooting a little more to use all his potential, I feel him like a stronger Modric.
At Marseille, Didier was supported in his favourite moves, as he was the star striker for us. I think we need to play with two wingers that would actually be inside forwards, alternating between run through center, to overload the box, or shoot from outside the box, and run along the line to cross. Nasri on the left and Gervinho on the right, to me sounds very very powerfull. But we need not to play them every game, to not burn them, play them wisely, for once, please Wenger, study the fixtures list, and realise you need to bring in at least 2 more classy player.
nite Lurch, nite Grovers
hmmm not sure natural biological evolution can lead to such homogeneity without negative feedback loops which have devastating consequences on the culture.
I think its dangerous to force machine age altruistic utopias on organisms that self perpetuate through diversification and specialism.
nite IvoryGoonz
*specialisation
just one piece of the puzzle…
http://www.thevenusproject.com/en
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkb15Tfq3_E
Cahill and Dann linked to Chelsea but I can’t see why, Samba to Spurs because King is a crock + he’s too expensive and not worth it and Jagielka is out of reach. Cesc and Nasri future’s up in the air and Almunia, Bendtner and Denilson still not gone yet it’s not been so great so far besides signing Gervinho.
lol Ivory, that venus project looks like the first step towards the end of humanity… scary stuff.
Lurch LeRouge says:
July 13, 2011 at 01:57
lol Ivory, that venus project looks like the first step towards the end of humanity… scary stuff.
——
I always knew u were a legend – the Venus Project is nothing more than cyber communism….”the MACHINES will decide on supply and demand…”
Incredible the amount of fuckwits that fall for this new age communist bullshit…by the way the name Venus is another moniker for Lucifer and dont forget who these nutbags want to rule in their one world communist govt…
Ive said too much…I can hear footsteps…BANG
Let me read thru the rest of the comments I missed ….looks like I missed a gud nite
GAston. B Franklin said that two men can keep a secret. But only if one of them is dead..
@lurch:
That’s a very serious man. And very wise. Shame he’s being targeted rather than helped. And not affiliate politically, or not tv-sexy-selling.
@tiarnan: a) I said a piece of the puzzle. In some technical aspects I’d have a talk with Fresco for hours rather than you my dear fellow grover. He tries to bring solutions. I’d wish Wenger had his grit at his age.
b) Even if it takes 1000 years to get there, we’ll get there.
It’s not communism. More and more people educate themselves and adhere to a resource based economy. Just investigate properly rather than criticizing without really knowing please.
It’s realising ourselves as the human race and our survival on the planet. Our conflicts of interests are meaningless for territory control or virtual money. You won’t take any of those when you die.
If you don’t see through this constant false information from corporations, individuals, who don’t want this to happen, well, I can say it, doomer! But well, wont prevent me from believing in the human race’s survival instinct to do the right thing at the last minute expected.
(and just hope Wenger still has that instinct)
And obviously, we are all so afraid of technology that we had a little more in our lives, and keep automating more and more. I could almost believe they shot Terminator just to make people afraid of mechanisation to make Americans more accepting of slavery in parts of the world where their tv parts come from.
We could suppress every repetitive job.
No need of an AI for that.
Like you could replace WillyBilly by a bot, same as our dear sneaky friend…;) but you wouldn’t need governments in the end. What for? We’d have no political conflicts, no borders. Call me an utopist if you like but as long as you don’t put a stick in my wheels, I promise to provide in the next 1000 years.
Well, it’s 3 o’clock, should be asleep like 4 hours ago.
Will check your comments tomorrow
Sweet dreams grovers
Last one … tiarnan, don’t hold back ;0)
Mayank -
Ok what youre saying is “racism” can be bred out of people, because it is undesireable amongst women and therefore they wont breed with racists.
Heres a few issues I have with that –
1) Alot of rich cunts are openly racist but will get still get copious amounts of fanny regardless of their viewpoint on the cultural integrity of Mongolian joggerwockies et al…
2) Last time I checked (mainly in http://www.thesun.co.uk) modern day tramps are far less choosy over their future sperm donors as compared to tramps of yesteryear….this fact was beautifully highlighted in the movie “Idiocracy”…The movie predicted that scum fuckwits will outbreed the intelligentsia – due to the government sponsored coke/heroin baby project – otherwise known as childrens allowance…
3) How can you get rid of racism fully, when racism is entirely subjective? One mans racism is another mans handshake…if youre in a supermarket and you go mental at the cash girl (lets say shes black and youre white) – and you asked 10 people what happened…some would call you a racist cunt….some would say youre always like that – youre actually just a cunt to everyone …were you really being a cunt coz she was black, or were u just having a bad day….you could spend 20 years questioning that and still not get to the bottom of it….
In essence what Im saying is – this isnt a Brave New World where we will eventually breed a superman *cough Nietzsche* – humanity is full of grey areas and foibles…its the very essence of what makes us human…if you were to have these bred out of you, you would in essence be destroying your freewill, youre right to choose, youre right to get things right, to get things wrong, to learn and to grow as a person – in essence be human…
Kubrick and Burgess explored this beautifully in a Clockwork Orange.
You’re all asleep, what a waste of a fucking rant.
Hiccup.
What a legend –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD_nE9SL-iw
Ivorygoonz hold on let me read what you wrote…..
Hmmm WillyBilly promised he’d be back soon from work… That was 10h ago. Think he had the time to actually check my response on the post from 2 days ago? Didn’t spend 3 hours answering his “points” for nothing. Bugger.
@tiarnan: racism is actually not a right word.
there’s only one human race.
In a more advanced civilisation, we won’t need to argue with a clerk, an IT support, or a cashier. The topic won’t even be brought.
IvoryG –
I apologise for the fuckwit comment – I dont really mean those things
Ok lets talk about the Venus Project – and why it it could NEVER possibly work – and is actually funded by the powers that be……
They call it a “resource economy” – however the individual will have NO resources whatsoever….
If you want a camera or a laptop etc you need to go to your local library and book it…
Just think about that for one second…the absolute absurdity of it…
I like most people who use comps nowadays – have tonnes of shit (software etc) loaded onto my laptop…I actually work with HD cameras for work and I need to have this stuff on hand 24/7 …I NEED MY OWN SHIT – to go to a library every time I need to use something is absolutely nonsensical….
Also – people who borrow from libraries wont give a flying fuck about looking after these goods – they didnt pay for them, no hard work involved, so therelll be no value placed on actually caring for them (your typical non incentivised Communist problem)
So, they say there’ll be no government, no police forces, people will no longer fight because theres no competition for resources….and because we wont need to work such long hours we’ll can spend our days wanking over dolphins…..
Really? We’ll all suddenly just stop fighting because Digital cameras are stored in a library?
Have you gone down any main street on a sat nite lately? Most of the people walking round with severed ears and bottled noses are due to
a) Excess muff and excess drinking …OR
b) Excess drinking and lack of muff
Nothing to do with digital cameras or ipods.
Also, most people like to work, they get a sense of achievement from it etc….
No government or police force? really? So who the fuck will run everything? Some imaginary Wizard of Oz?
Do you think rape (for example) will stop because everyone has access to a digital camear in a centralised library?
Of couse it wont. So what happens if you rape someone…whos going to do something about it…Judge Dredd?
As the ancient Greeks said, “Without Laws there can be No Freedom” – and for there to be laws you need people to enforce those – with hopefully as honest a judiciary system as possible.
Every dictatorship rides in on the promise of a utopia – but therein lies the real truth – in that utopia actually means “no place”
Rant number 2 over.
Hiccup.
@tiarnan: no offence but that was total abuse to Poland.
After the WWII, we abandonned (UK,US. And France) to Russia’s sovereignty.
They joined euro because they needed stronger support than an ambassador of France, or England in Poland to get out of Russia’s iron hand. Same for Ukraine. Go there and you will see how Europe liberated Poland, and gives hope to other ex USSR countries.
Can’t just believe what he did.
He’s got a point on the redundancy of europe’s governing bodies though.
But I’d certainly not have picked that example. Finally, look at the actual rate of exchange with euro year after year with the pound and you’ll see who’s winning.
Russia was not a democratic federation at all. You cant compare the two.
Farage was attacking the present day Polish PM for so easily ceding sovereignty to the tyrannical EU which is run by UNELECTED bureaucrats…
How can you possibly call the EU democratic?
Name one member who was democratically elected? What about The Lisbon Treaty, how many of Europes 500 million citizens got to vote on that – a treaty which will define all our futures financially, politically and culturally…? How democratic is it to make Ireland vote again after we voted “No” – and before we vote a second time round threaten us with financial ruin if we say no again…? How democratic is it for the EU to destroy the British and Irish fishing industries with billions of euros of lost sales every year..? How democratic is it for the EU to jail a man for selling bananas in imperial weights? How democratic is it of the EU to over ride the constitutions of sovereign states with their own?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU
Ivory get a coffee n watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCxPSRBSbU
Bollocks, woke up
@tiarnan; I believe it is a model that needs to be refined. But a model nevertheless.
We could just have anything you want really and still no money (apart in areas where you’d still want it for the nostalgy of it). Just things need to be built to last and not waste resources. That would mean ensure quality, and free upgrades as technology evolves. If your future TV was not meant to last 10 years max so that you buy a new one quicker, but a lifetime, and upgradable. Remember lot of the books/videos available are based in the 1970s. They had much less ideas on organisation that we do now.
Also, for example, In my “adaptation”, the way I see it work, you’d still want to keep memories and all to be kept safe, in your habitat, you wouldn’t just store it on a public server. That’s farfetched and overorganised. Also his city, I believe is too rigid as a plain circular shape, we like diversity as well there. But a much better designed city integrating all different possible renewable sources, is a definite buy. Developing volcano turbine a definite buy too. His concepts are brilliant, and technically feasible.
Fresco is designer and engineer first of all. And not a dumb one at that. You would be able to invent electrostatic anti-freezing systems for example?
Did you know the water engine actually works, and they just won’t commercialise it to not lose money on it.
Organisationally speaking, he doesn’t have a good enough idea of hiw to make it work. Reason why he proposed that booking/dialling system. But we wouldn’t have to.
There are enough resources on this planet and the rest of the planet in the galaxies for a long time still.
I hope one day soon I can take time off for like a year, and work just on that, to out on paper how it could work without “communistic” excesses. (I don’t like that word, like politics nowadays. The original sense of both has been perverted. And both are actually saying something similar. We must respect individualities, but work as communities. Not isolated decisions. But concerted effort like a team on the pitch.
Politics because the real meaning is science of the city. This was about how to manage a city, objectively. Not about more taxes here, less taxes there, no to gay wedding or what not. Let people chose what they want, democracy is another one. Check how original Greek democracy worked and you’ll see how more sense it had).
Right looks like I aint gonna sleep today, might as well go to work at 6Am…
@tiarnan: EU is a collection of democratic countries who adhered freely and can leave freely.
Unlike USSR.
I’m not saying it’s all rosy, lot if wastes, but it did have some interest as a “ethnologic” experiment of how could 12 or more nationalities leave together in the same building. We wouldn’t had gone for space programms deals wit USA without a strong Europe.
To me there’s just too many international organizations and we should just group all of them to cut costs. But that was a necessary first step. You can’t build Rome in one day.
Ivory –
lets do some what ifs –
rgegarding the venus project WHAT IF I went to the library – took out a load of laptops etc and then decided to keep them…? Now remember theres no police force ….and you have a college project due so you go down to get a laptop…but I have 4 and I aint giving em back…
So, tell me – how would this get resolved?
* and you have a college project due so you go down to get a laptop – but theres none left
so
is arsene finding his balls again, or is he growing them again, to go out with such statements about nasri & cesc?
or is it just another verbal stance to cover for the bad coming news…. when he’ll tell us how much he fought to keep them?
only my friend time will tell……
no doubt we shouldn’t be selling cesc for 35m’, but we wants out, he is psychological injury prone now (i believe those small niggles will fade away once he’s in barca shirt)….. but still he is the best. or at least one of the few best, is his position in the world. he is 24, he is tied up for another 4 years. so why to lose on him for the cheap?
now arsenal shouldn’t cave here. we should set our asking price and even not negotiate over it. that is what we want. meet the price or take a hike….
@tiarnan: already answered about your laptop. That booking bit is not the most important thing in all that.
You could perfectly have your own laptop and I’d vouch for it. All you need is a high quality product that last and can be upgraded as time goes and technology advances.
What he offers are guidelines, not an all written what if book. But at least that’s a basis for discussion on something else than abortion right…
@bade: patience, patience. In 50 days we’ll know if it’s a boy or a girl…
Ivory – so you believe we can one day have a society with no need for a police force?
This is a fundamental tenet of the Venus Project…
Ivory –
Also, any chance you could answer at least one of these…
How can you possibly call the EU democratic?
Name one member who was democratically elected? What about The Lisbon Treaty, how many of Europes 500 million citizens got to vote on that – a treaty which will define all our futures financially, politically and culturally…? How democratic is it to make Ireland vote again after we voted “No” – and before we vote a second time round threaten us with financial ruin if we say no again…? How democratic is it for the EU to destroy the British and Irish fishing industries with billions of euros of lost sales every year..? How democratic is it for the EU to jail a man for selling bananas in imperial weights? How democratic is it of the EU to over ride the constitutions of sovereign states with their own?
now on the market, that happened lately
inler went to napoli. pity we lost on him but you feel he didn’t want to leave italy….
we are linked with given? not bad, but bring in a beast CB, DM first!
arsene stating gibbs, traore and vermaelen will fill the void of clichy is really bad news. not only it show no ambition (and might affect badly nasri decision to sign or leave), the priorities tell’s it all. gibbs, traore, vermaelen? are you serious? why not vermaelen, gibbs, traore? you can’t just bin another year gambling on the prospect of gibbs, upping his game and getting an injury free year in the same time. it is too damn wish-fool thinking i reckon.
we should be bringing a 29-30 year old LB, who can play alongside gibbs, teach him a bit. then we can see if his understudy is worthy the promotion to first teamer. but he is still far from there right now, and it all but certain that will be costing us vital points……
well ivory, i reckon the worse of the two will always fall in our part…..
now, it’s a new day, so let’s see the bright side of arsenal ?
jack, you are a legend! on the pitch, but it seems you are even a more legend when you speak and act out of pitch too. don’t ever change!
cesc, act like a real man! you should listen to jack. sometimes i feel he must be our captain, jacky boy. he has the balls of a bull. he has it all. when i know i have jack, robin, AA23 and theo, i’m truly happy. those are the kind of players i would like to have anyday
Heres another great documentary about the tyranny that is the cunting EU –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQt2IjeLVc
@tiarnan; no, I believe that we’d still need a controlling body, but no need of a “police”. More of a super NHS/Fireman. We’d be much more “solidaire” and wouldn’t have money crimes.
Sex crimes wouldn’t happen either as guilt about sex would be removed, and technology would permit you to simulate any fantasy you’d have of raping or killing.
We’d pick up unstable behaviours much earlier, and be able to educate people. People are afraid of change and are “racist”/xenophobe because they are afraid of what they don’t know.
The society would have to be based on health, trust, and love. Without achieving that first, no point creating a pretty toy to see it destroyed.
So you disagree with Fresco – you do believe we need a police force. Great you’re beginning to crack. Lets see if I can drive a wedge in there and make the whole concept crumble into the pile of shit that it really is.
You say sex crimes will not happen because “guilt about sex would be removed, and technology would permit…”
Ok lets take the example of of psychopaths – psychopaths gain satisfaction through antisocial behavior, and do not experience shame, guilt, or remorse for their action.
Psychopaths are stimulated by “real life” encounters and would therefore also not be contained by the readily available battery operated vaginas (or whatever you propose in your technolgical vagina wonderland utopia).
So, how then – in The Venus Project – do you deal with psychopaths – as guilt and technology would not reduce their crime threat.
@tiarnan; what are you trying to say about Europe? Vote no. Whatever I’ll say you’ll still have something more against it.
Just for clarification again, I didn’t say EU representants are elected “democratically”.
It is a gathering of nominated representants, from democratic countries. That’s more important than the rest again. And again that is the real difference with USSR which is what he used for example. Ask Suga how he feels about it…
We’d have much more power with UK inside the euro. That’s a simple fact.
You can’t blame euro for Portugal and Greece breakdown. In my opinion Goldman Sachs and by extension USA should finance that for failing to control their bankers and let it happen.. Not EU’s fault
Treaties are made to be broken. People write contract, treaties with each other because they say they trust. But they need a treaty, contract because they don’t trust each other. Work on the source of the problem…
I’m not trying to defend Eu in it’s entirety here. Just saying it actually dd some good things, and with you in it it would be more fun, and stronger, so why don’t you join the band? Everything has its good side, and down side. Communication is supposed to be there to bridge the gap, but rather than looking for solutions, people aggress each others. Never gonna work this way. Sit at the table, discuss your point. An if you still can’t agree, then so be it, and rule what you can’t agree on on a country by country basis.
If I was European president I’d have changed lots of things. But I’m not. And I can’t change anything about it at my level.
Standardisation is a good thing if it doesn’t go into extreme. Again. All about tolerance. Why cant we work together rather than just listen to aggressive statements during such sessions about who did what 50 or 5 years ago. They can’t change the past but they can make the future better.
About Ireland,if Ireland wants to join, fine. What’s your problem with it? If you don’t want it just say no. Financial threat is just what it is, a big word. Threats have nothing to do with being democratic or not. Democracy means power to the people by the people for the people. What kind of threat is Ireland to you on itsboen really? Think people will stop traveling between the 2 just ecause of that? What kind of boycott can they so on your economy really? They are just saying it’s in your best interest to be on the team rather on the bench… Since when threats done onto someone actually worked? It usually always have the contrary effect anyway.
I think you should also use the word “fair” rather than “democratic”. Democratic is just a description on the way a voting system works. Ask for a referendum if you don’t want your representant to vote for you. How fair is it for England to only display imperial weights with a very present international community using International standard? And what prevents you from displaying both?
On the fishes, I’m not in the know, so I’ll just say I don’t know.
EU should only contain common rules adhered by everyone. There shouldn’t be for sovereign state a clash with of a eu law on anything. That should be complementary. Yes. Well. Again, I just said there’s not only bad in EU. Why do I have to be the one to defend all their choices? You don’t like it, then so be it.
@bade: I proposed Balzaretti for LB. He’s 29. What do you think of him?
Ivory –
Please watch this and if you still feel youre dealing with a democratic institution then I will have to assume youre under some sort of mind control..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6QmH-7fu68
in ten mins ill be asking what you think….
@tiarnan: people are not born psychopaths. They are miseducated or mistreated and become like that. Anyway, im not a Venus Project expert. I just find there are lot of things that can be used in Fresco’s concepts, and even if you dont adhere to Zeitgeist vision of things around it, it doesn’t make his designs rubbish.
I’m a jack of all trade, fighter, leader, but not a politician.
I think we should start to get to work and fix things along the way rather than just arguing about which color should be the roof of your house.
I don’t have any more time to spend on this. Rather than just trying to debunk every piece to me, just forget it. You don’t get it. You’re just here to contest whatever you can, and as was actually answered to that dumb ass in a suit, what are you actually proposing? just status quo? Let’s just accept all this Imperialist Calitalist system that is bound to crash over and over again until poorest people take the streets?
If you want to have more answers to all your questions, there are plenty videos available. All your questions har already been answered by them. I said I’ll write my own book one day on how it could work. Well, yes, I have a lot of work in front of me. But at least I’ll try to build something cohort than even the worst nihilist will adhere to. Otherwise I might as well just bring Armageddon if every human thinks like you, what’s the point saving them? Korben an idea?
Heres your answer to “the euro isnt to blame for meltdowns in greece etc…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DlVFKBwbuU
I hope your watching these and learning
Youre saying IM accepting Imperialism?
Heres the definition of Imperialism – Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is “the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.”
This defines the EU exactly….and if you dont believe they are creating an empire then take it from the horses mouth….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BkW7u3TqBs
Youre the one defending this tyrannical imperialism not me…and so this is why I disagree with you because you dont understand the nature of this – you need to watch all the videos I posted above and learn what youre dealing with……..
@tiarnan: There’s nothing here to learn. Just your bitterness and inability to actually have a constructive discussion. You just here to provoke me. Do you realize you kept me awake, that I have to go to work in 20 minutes, just to talk about fucking politics, asking same quesrion over abd over? and that like WillyBilly you just expect me to answer all your questions 3 times, not even actually reading my answer and not answer the ones asked to you? What’s your proposition? Always easy to criticize, but what do you actually have to offer? Let’s explode the euro? It’s easy to talk about the Eu parliament like that, at least they try to build something. UK wouldn’t have been so attached to the dollar to wouldn’t be in such a shit.
I didnt keep you awake dont be a child…and you havent answered a single question at all….
Heres what I propose – Britain (for example) should leave the EU entirely (along with every other sovereign nation) and be self governed by democratically elected officials…
Greece, for example, cannot decide on its own interest rates because theyre confined within the Euro straight jacket…and because of this theyre economy is in freefall – along with most other EU nations…
IT ISNT WORKING – are the riots taking place in Athens, Barcelona etc not enough for you? What more do you need – Armageddon?
Farage is a fucking lege, and he got it spot on against the Polish PM, who is a complete cunt…
I like Farage for being one hell of a speaker, he likes to hyperbole his opinions as facts every now and then, but he mostly says the truth and makes me laugh…
You’re mixing things up. eU and Fresco. Stop smoking or drinking seriously. I don’t understand. Fuck you. You’re the one who started calling me a fukwit. I don’t care about your “politics” issue. Whenever you are asked “why did the Irish refuse the treaty”. “because they don’t want the treaty. Really the best at avoiding answering questions. Have you actually read the treaty? Why did 18 countries vote yes. If you’re not happy just go out. No or is holding you. And again, you still don’t even say what you propose.
Imperialist capitalist was directed mostly yowards USA’s policy of invading countries for oil or destabilization.
Now I’m sorry but I don’t feel loll taking more abuse from someone who actually doesn’t even answer, same as WillyBilly. What do you actually have to propose rather than just pissing people of on here?
tiarnan,
Greeks used the creative accounting to ‘qualify’ to join the € zone…
the whole idea of introducing € was well thought out by the proper number men, but when the politicians start meddling in the numbers, it must go to pot, no two ways about this…
the states where the numbers (inflation, budget deficit, etc.) could not match the € requirements should not have joined, plain and simple…
If you actually had more discerning, you’d actually check. I stayed late, was gonna go to sleep just when you arrived, and you say hold on gonna read what you wrote.
You didn’t hold me?
I just gave you a proposal…hello, anyone home?
And out of the “18 countries” that voted for the Lisbon Treaty….can you give me the %s involved ….
ie – how many citizens of X voted “yes” and how many voted “no”
Because Im having terrible difficulty finding any figures at all for how THE CITIZENS voted …so maybe you can help….
—–
Suga – yeh Farage is a hero for freedom man – the biggest supporter of the individual state in the totally corrupt EU institution
Tiernan: I have slept 4 hours in 2 days now. I’m tired. I don’t have any energy to keep arguing on fucking politics. and i have a 10 hours shift to do dealing with useless IT support for the rest of the day. eU is wrong, UK is wrong, Fresco is wrong, everyone is wrong apart from you. Whatever.
Suga – I know – The Papandreou family have sold their countrymen out to the bankers – and have done so incrementally for decades….Ireland has a plethora of scum politicians who have sold us out too…..just like every other nation….theyre selling us into an imperial tyrannical institution – known as the EU….
this is a very good article on the papandreou family (notice that theyre socialists/communists too)
http://hellasfrappe.blogspot.com/2011/06/curse-of-papandreou-family.html
——————————-
Ivory I dont think I held you…but I may have nodded off once or twice and spooned you – but youll have to forgive me I have somnaspoonularism…..im on heavy medication for it
good read that article, tiarnan.
Tiernan: I already replied to everything. Ask again what i missed and i will answer what i feel think, but olease lets make this quick. Told you if you’re not happy with it, just go out of it. In my perspective it is irrelevant. I do not care what EU policy will tell. I’m against voting actually because of that same reason that these are not true democracies a la original grecque and I’m fed up paying all these taxes for people who spend it arguing for ages rather than all working together in the best interest of everyone. There wouldn’t be border, money, you wouldn’t have this problem. We can manage the resources of the planet as a race and no more countries. That for France for example, even if it’s not “majorite totale”, the one with most vote wins, even if he didn’t even get 50% of the vote, and if there are more votes “blank”, it doesn’t matter, . Well, I’m for a vote a la pope. Until everyone agrees, no pope elected. Unanimite.
If I want to sell my fish in Chinese currency in France I’ll do itC get fined, go to jail, give them a finger and thank them for 3 free dishes and a bed. Wether it’s Europe or USA, I agree, I don’t like people to tell me what to do. Doesn’t mean it’s ALL bad to try to be organized better, it has to start somewhere. If you actually read Selassie’s speech, it’s all there. and that we can’t work it out. It’ like Arsenal. A little good will from Wenger and the board and we are saved.
I don’t care about politics. In 1000-2000 years it will be irrelevant, arguing about money in a financial system that doesn’t work, and will keep on crashing doesn’t really matters to me. What matters to me is the future of the planet and the human race in particular. Already died once, and I’m not afraid to go. I’ve already done more than one ordinary life, and all I want in the end is to get our planet forward.
I hate laws as God didn’t write any, and if I was really “bad”, I’d gladly exterminate lawyers and priests, drop a nuclear bomb on Jerusalem and la meqa so that the problem is solved once and for all and we can have a fresh start.
Suga: what I meant in general is as a Pole, were you actually happy to be offered to join euro, did your country in your opinion get more good than bad? as far as my ex was concerned, all her family and friends were happy about it…
I guess in the end it’s more a difficulty to see the advantages for countries were the currency had a heavy weight like Germany as they had proportionally to put more chips in than say Italy or Portugal who actually got great deals to come in. But in the end, if all join, it’s to stabilize each other and absorb risks and shocks better.
tiarnan,
good read indeed! goes to show that people just don’t learn…
in Poland, for the 20 years since ‘defeating the communism’ (yawn) it was like a big smash’n'grab fest for the politicians, now that country is in serious shit and the latest NIgel Farage’s victim and his cronies are merely rearranging the deckchairs…
and the idiot says it is good to join the € zone now, what a complete twat…
do you guys vote?
rohan – yeh, its gud to know who these cunts really are….
Argentina was actually the guinea pig used by the bankers – how to financially cripple the people with loans and then acquire all the natural resources against non payment of exorbitant interest payments which are impossible to pay….
Now Greece, Ireland et al will be signing awaw their natural resources too …
This documentary shows what they did to Argentina – and will show what they plan to do with the rest of us…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yerKMQc7-w&feature=related
anyone got links to watch the malaysia game today??
Tiernan: if all this recession happened, it’s not directly because of some politicians.
But because of some bankers identified. And they should pay for it. Not countries, not people.
But because we are too weak we can’t even tell them to fk off.
All this is virtual money. Once it crashes again because of greed of bankers, and it gets worse, people will take the streets again.
Until the system just collapses by itself. Then what will we do?
We could switch to a global resource based economy, sharing technologies and advances without needs of money at all. And eventually, we’ll have to. But the longer we wait, and don’t prepare for it, the harder it will feel, and the more will die.
Ivory – The best part about debating is that no matter what both sides learn – so respect for that………
Suga – I voted against Lisbon but as for Irish elections …its like voting for either lethal injection or the electric chair when youre on death row….I know I should but theyre all so utterly fucking corrupt……
This whole financial crisis is being manufactured so they can create a global government to deal with “global problems…” …
ANd this is how they put nations into debt (by the way when he says theyre doing this on behalf of America, he should say the Vatican – but thats another days work…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CofEbxtIxI
I am off to work, have yo’self a chune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_CLUWdPfVc