Before I start the post, I just want to say the thoughts of everyone at Le Grove are with Aaron Ramsey. Get well soon…
I had a pre-match post dedicated to explaining my finance post the other day. I don’t feel it necessary to post now, all I want to say is that I apologise for the regrettable Gazidis headline. It was a heat of the moment opinion that upon reflection was unfair, irresponsible and clouded the point I was trying to make. I’ll explain my concerns another day…
Saturday kicked off in spectacular fashion. Chelsea dropped 3 points at home to Manchester City and lost ground with their superior goal difference. The Chav’s attacked with little intent and defended shambolically. I’ve been saying all week that I think we can win the league and I’ve been saying all week that Hilario is a keeper of questionable ability. If Arsenal could capitalise on Chelsea’s slip, there would be 3 points between the top 3. This is the closest we’ve been at the end of February since we last won the league.
What a mad season eh?
Almunia
Sagna Campbell Vermaelen Clichy
Fabregas Song Ramsey
Eboue Bendtner Nasri
The notable Absentee from the starting line up was Theo Walcott. Preferred in his place was our answer to Lionel Messi, Emmanuel Eboue. The team looked strong, the results earlier were encouraging, the only missing ingredient was a rampant Arsenal victory. Stoke had become something of a bogey team for us, Arsenal Addict made the point to me on twitter… we couldn’t let the Potters become the new trotters!
Clichy started the game with a mistake, running past the ball allowing stoke to create a move which saw fuller fizz a ball across the goal. Song lost the ball sloppily shortly after, the through ball was marshalled by Sagna, Almunia took and age to come, then crunched Sagna. A worrying start from Arsenal.
It didn’t take long for Stoke to take the lead. 7 minutes to be precise. A Delap throw, nodded on for Pugh to head in. It’s just so depressing that firstly, Song preferred to play it out for a throw instead of leaving it for the corner or dealing with it more effectively and secondly that we are getting beaten to second balls in our box, what was the greatest right back in Europe doing at the back stick (What he does best, switching off)? Shocking defending.
Individual errors were stopping Arsenal getting into any kind of rhythm, we hadn’t turned up for the biggest game of our season.
Clichy’s tiny throw made me laugh after he took the ball off Delap. The stoke players throw in prep was starting to grate.
Song continued to have a shocker after failing to push up with the defence allowing Shawcross to tee up Fuller.
After 30 minutes we began to find our feet.
Cesc picked the ball up out wide, whipped in a cross, Bendtner squeezed between two defenders and buried a header back across Sorensons goal into the top corner. Superb header, finally, Nik had delivered his first bit of true class this year.
Eboue wasn’t imposing himself on the same way as he was the week before but he was playing for freekicks and winning them, which can be a touch irritating. He has the skill to skin people, he should have the confidence to use it when his chips are down.
Only two question needed answering in the second half. Were Stoke too tired to make an impact? Were Arsenal hungry enough to dig out a result?
Eboue launched a rasping shot that was tipped over by Sorenson.
Then came the saddest moment of 2010, Shawcross flew into a high challenge and snapped Rambo’s leg. Yep, once again, a disgusting high challenge from a so called physical team has ruined 18 months of a young mans life. How many times do we have to see this happen to our boys? Diaby against Sunderland, Eduardo against Birmingham and now Rambo at Stoke. It’s a disgrace… I don’t care what Shawcross intentions were… he tackled half way up a fellow professionals leg, disgraceful. More disgraceful than the challenge? Stoke fans chanting, ‘your f**ked and you know you are’ and ‘he’s only got one leg’ to a 19 year old boy verged on criminal. Words can’t describe how sickened I was by that. It sums up the attitude of certain clubs though… the fans knew what their player had done, but didn’t care… it was part of their make up and Arsenal needed to be man enough to accept that.
The game kicked off again but the players were shell shocked. I was praying this wouldn’t become another Birmingham 2008 moment. Cesc fired a freekick into the box, Sol Campbell failed to get on the end it and the ball flashed narrowly wide.
Shortly afterwards, Eduardo found himself through on goal after Song played him in, he hooked the ball just past the near post.
Then our moment came, Nik B was searching for an opening on the edge of the box, his flick through was handled, the penalty given. Cesc stepped up against a keeper who had saved his last 3 penalties. He glanced at the goal, ran towards the goal and buried the ball just past Sorenson’s hand. His celebration was a dedication to Rambo. Touching.
We were playing for the third goal, Nik Bendtner was denied a clear penalty after being shoved over blatantly in the box. Ref’s find it tough to give two penalties in ten minutes though. The Rosicky controlled the ball on the edge of the box and low and powerfully, Cesc anticipated the spill, intelligently cut it back to Vemaelen, bang! 3-1… dead and buried!
The team huddle called by Sol Campbell after the game reminded me of the unity and spirit after Bobby Pires busted his knee incident a few years back. Lets hope that spirit brings us a trophy we can dedicate to Rambo… he deserves as much.
Cesc was fiery after the game, he pointed out that he appreciates the English game is rough, but it goes too far sometimes. Today it went to far. It was disappointing to listen to the sky interviewer trying to get Wenger to look like he was a whinger after the game, his message was the same as Cescs, the jist was -
1) There are no coincidences in football
2) The treatment meted out to Arsenal is unacceptable
Andy Gray can talk about players not wanting to injure fellow pros, but that’s b*llocks. Most of us know what people are like in Sunday league, so to think Pro’s have a different mind set is fantasy talk. He might not have intended to break his leg, but the intention was there to hurt.
However, talk that Shawcross is the only person to blame here is unfair. He made a hideous mistake, but be fair, he’s playing in a country where that type of challenge is lauded and he’s at a club where ‘physicality’ even brutality is demanded. When you’re raised in a culture of vindicated thuggery, things like this will happen.
Though it must be noted he has previous and I’m pretty sure he was let go by United because of his disciplinary record in the reserves… I’m open to correction there. I’m pretty certain he smashed Adebayor in the sidelines last year. It’s interesting to note that this type of thing only happens in away games. Even more interesting is the whereabouts of Shawcross tomorrow… According to a Diamond Club member he’ll be at Arsenal’s training ground reporting in for England this week (*I was told last night before I just saw it in the NoTW). I’d like to a be a fly on a wall there…
This is an issue that must be addressed with balance and intelligence. I want to see all players protected, but I don’t want to see the league lose it’s edge. Maybe the introduction of foreign refs would do the trick, perhaps we need proper retrospective punishments for challenges that are blatantly reckless or perhaps fairer analysis of thuggery in the main stream media. I don’t care what happens… something needs to be put forward now because at the moment, Premier League football seems to throw up more nasty injuries than motor sport or rugby.
Just a thought, how would the press react if Rooney was in hospital with a snapped leg?
Back to the team, I couldn’t be prouder to say I support Arsenal right now. Screw the balance sheet, this is what supporting your football team is all about… watching your team battle against the odds to turn in a fantastic result, give the fans the opportunity to connect with them. We showed grit, professionalism and maturity to win that match today. They’ve delivered an inspirational come back which could go down in folklore if we can deliver the league.
We’re in a title race, we’ve got more motivation than ever and as fans, we should all unite… this feels like its about more than just football now. Lets all put our differences behind us and all get behind the team… in ten games time, we could witness the most unlikely of trophy lifts… wouldn’t that be glorious?
Have a great day Grovers!
Ratings
Almunia: I thought he played well today. He made a couple of decent saves and there wasn’t much he could do for the goal. 7
Clichy: Still looking a liability to me. He was better going forward as the game wore on, defensively a little worrying. 6
Vermaelen: Top scoring defender in the league this year, played like a warrior, looked an emotional wreck after the goal. He brushed himself down and popped up as our fox in the box in the second half. 8
Sol: Again, took the challenge to heart and looked the most frustrated. Performed with gusto and helped lead the team through a painful incident. Probably one of those days where you’d prefer Sol in there to Gallas. Good defensive performance from our rock in reserve. 8
Sagna: I thought he played well bar some suspect attacking play 7
Cesc: It didn’t click for him in the first half but he still whipped an amazing cross to loan striker Nik B. He scored a penalty and set up the third. There is no denying Cesc is one of the best midfielders on the planet at the moment, today he delivered on the big stage in an important game. 9
Song: A very up and down game from him. He gave the ball away a lot in the first half and was part responsible for the first goal because he went out of his way to concede a throw. He grew in the second half and put himself about a bit more. 6
Rambo: Was having a blinder. He was winning balls in the air, driving forward with intent and he was doing his bit in the middle to mix it with the rough boys. I’m angry just writing about the challenge, but it was sickening to see the best talent in British football lose a year of his career. 8
Nik B: He was sloppy with his control in the first half, but he was a physical presence. His header was nothing short of world class in a big game where perhaps you wouldn’t expect many strikers to score a header. That set the ball rolling and in the second half he played very well. His deft flick led to the handball and the second goal. 8
Nasri: He tried really hard today but not much fell for him. 7
Eboue: Not his best game and more typical of the type of performance I’d associate with him up top. He did let off a rasping shot and his runs occasionally caused bother. Preferable to Theo. 6.5
The standard of football is better in La Liga i’d say, but I do agree that the PL is marketed better, and our media know how to ham up every little aspect, whcih makes for further entertainment
@ Gambon
For starters he has to win a major trophy as the ‘main man’. No matter what he does however, he can’t be on Messi’s level.
As for the PL being marketed better.Duh. They have employed an aggressive American style advertising campaign where its all ‘the best league in the world this and that.’
I think Messi is far ahead of everyone else in the world.
Theres a lot of world class players such as Torres, Cesc, Rooney, Ronaldo, Gerrard etc behind him and I think Rooney is as good as any of them now he’s scoing regularly.
Yeah I’d agree with that gambon, this season Rooney has stepped up a level to being in the same league as the likes of Ribery, Cesc, Kaka, Ronaldo, Gerrard, Torres when they’re all on form.
Fair enough Gambon.
But my point is we are in February, and this is the first season really that he has been scoring like this.
He has to do this same over the course of next season and the season after. Prior to this season, he was much like Adebayor, he scored in batches and went missing for weeks b4 another purple patch.
Well i just hope this pressure gets to Rooney and he dries up for the rest of the season
Hi guys.
Did
anyone notice song is banned for two games now.
Campbell was great yesterday and if gallas
is back I would move tv into cm.
The titled is on now. We are properly in
it. If we win all our games we will be champions and If we are Ramsey must get a medal.
Isn’t it eerily similar to WC 06. The guy broke his metatarsal and England pinned their hopes on him to win the title. Quite unbelievable. Same this time round I feel.
Speaking of Rooney, he’s a “major doubt” for the England game, what a joke
Mark, he gets one anyway for playing 10 games.
I guess having so many players for us injured is a blessing in disguise.
F-off NTs. No Arshavin, Gallas, Diaby for you. We should make Nasri and Rosicky major doubts themsleves.
Arshavin is in the Russia squad zeus.
Mark I wouldn’t do that, sol is a good sub. Denilson will be fine as DM home to Burnley, and then away at Hull. Song got his booking at the best possible time, Burnley home is a gimme, and Hull isn’t the nicest game these two were certainly the best pair of games imo. If Diaby isn’t back it’ll be interesting who plays though, if Merida is back from injury could be a big opportunity for him, or if not I guess Nasri or Rosicky in there.
FFS. Why?
Yea A I was about to mention that conveniently Rooney is feeling discomfort in his knee…
This is very typical, they find ways to weasel out of the pointless friendlies….
I would play Nasri in the midfield now..I hate when he is on the left wing…he is very frustrating out there….
I would play this lineup for the next game…
…………………Almunia……………………
Sagna…….Gallas…….Sol/Silvest….CLichy/Armand
……………….Denilson/Eastmond……………..
…..Cesc…………………………Nasri………
..Theo/Rosick……..Bendy…………….Arsh/Eddy..
No Vermaelen Ja?
Seeing as we are at home i would start Eboue at right back too. Other than that i more or less agree with the team.
Nasri was awesome against Sunderland Ja, but especially away he hasn’t taken responsibility alot of the time this season, just gives it simple rather than making stuff happen. Though not in last weekend’s game.
Why no Vermy in your line up??
I’d rest alot of players who are gonna start against Porto.
Start Eboue, Sol, Vermy, Traore
Cesc Denilson Merida/Nasri/Rosicky
Nasri/Rosicky Bendtner Eduardo
That’s assuming Theo and Arshavin starting either side of Bendy for Porto, with Diaby and Song in midfield
i feel the next 5 games will determin weather this team will win the prem i feel delinson will most likely start next game but diaby will have part to play if fit as will aa but i have no dought that chelsea will bounce back they will drop points but to many so this must win every game for me there little margin for error
Or maybe Rosicky against Porto rather than Theo, so Theo start against Burnley
When are Gallas and Diaby due back? Surely if they are to start against Porto they should get some playing time against Burnley and/or Hull to get thir sharpness back.
And Vela, whats the news on him. He hasnt featured in ages.
Porto is before Hull.
I wouldn’t say they need match sharpness, especially with Arshavin off out to Hungary, and the game coming on the Tuesday too with a short time to rest. I’d start Cesc, Eboue, Bendtner out of the starting XI for Porto, but hopefully we’d be comfortable enough to take them off give them a rest before the end of the Burnley game.
A…I know CBs dont need much rest…but that is exactly why I left Vermaelen out…I would rest him..remember he is carrying a niggling injury(that feared leg break)
I would rest Vermy against Burnley because it should be a comfortable game…I would get Gallas back in if he is fit to get his shrpness back….so thats why I would play this..I would also give Rosicky the day off so that he is 100% ready for Porto
…………………Almunia……………………
Sagna…….Gallas…….Sol/Silvest….CLichy/Armand
……………….Denilson/Eastmond……………..
…..Cesc…………………………Nasri………
..Theo……..Bendy…………….Arsh/Eddy..
If we were comfortably leading Burnley in the second half I would make these subs
Merida for Cesc
Vela for Arsh/Eddy
Eboue for Theo/Sagna
Nasri is the most frustrating player in the team.
So much ability, but rarely does anything! I used to watch him at Marseille and he was much more exciting & direct.
Vela was back in the squad for Sunderland Stu, and yesterday, but Wenger said he didn’t feature against Sunderland because he’s got a groin niggle, so only on the bench if we’re in trouble I guess.
I’d definitely start him against Burnley, if it wasn’t for the fact he’ll be kicking off his game for Mexico at 4am Thursday morning, so he won’t be even in the squad I’d imagine.
Yeah thats right A. I was getting my dates mixed up.
I would play this team for Porto….
Note( This is assuming Diaby is out)
………………..Al…………………….
Eboue…….Gallas………Vermaelen……..Clichy
………………..Song……………………
…..Cesc…………………….Rosicky/Nasri….
..Theo…………..Bendy…………..Arshy…..
I play Eboue because we need to score goals…we cant afford to wait til the end of the game to step it up…Its very possible that they will come to the Emirates for a 0-0 draw…we cant let them get too comfortable…
Yeah that’s what I’d go for Ja, though really hope Diaby is fit, and maybe Rosicky rather than Theo, but that’s a tough one.
Porto would never play for a 0-0 imo Ja. Possible set up for counter attack so as to keep it tight at the back but sich an attacking team wouldnt set out for a draw…much the same as we would never do it.
For Hull i think Sol should be strongly considered because Hull have Altidore in fine form for them and he would easily get the better of Gallas and Vermaelen in a physical contest imo.
But then again we dont ever seem to select certain players just to combat the opposition so why start now.
When we do do that we get beat Stu, like Stoke last season.
Hull shouldn’t be that easy, but shouldn’t be that hard. Poor man’s Stoke really.
A, did you see that Hull were the most fouled in the league?
I was surprised.
Stu, agree there… it’s not in their make up and I don’t think they’re good enough to play for a 0-0
We lost to Stoke last season because of stupidity. All our tall players were in midfield and attack and naturally arent that keen to attack a ball defensively. Silvestre, Toure and Almunia lost us that match because none of the attacked the ball despite it being in the 6 yard box.
ffs Toure didnt even jump for Fullers goal.
Yeah I saw that Pedro, does surprise me, where is that stat from, is there a table of the other teams?
Stu imo we lost to Stoke because we tried to put in all our tall players, and therefore were never going to be able to click offensively and play our own game. Very poor decision imo
Pedro;
That foul league is bull shit, as it has to be what the ref classes as a foul first mate. The amount of fouls we get against us that the refs wave away aint considered in this league table fella…
I’m not sure A… Chary is the master of those stats! He gets them from somewhere… maybe he compiles them himself!
Yes A, and all our tall players were in attack which kept us shit defensively and stopped us being quick in attack.
That day we had no defenders over 6ft. Against a team like stoke i call that stupidity.
We lost to ZStoke last season coz we had no appetite for the fight and were goin thru some lacksidazical hiatus or something… I remember telling everyine on here to put their mortgage, or dole money on us getting beat that day!
I wouldn’t say that made us shit defensively, not from set pieces anyways. Bendtner is one of our very best defensive players in the air, Diaby is decent when not heading into his own net, Song is pretty good, Ade even cleared a fair few when he could be bothered.
If we wanted to pick a team to combat Stoke’s set pieces then Wenger picked the right team, but the stupidity lay in trying to do that, when we should’ve taken advantage of their weaknesses, rather than trying to pick a team to defend against their strengths
Ah ok Pedro
And dont forget, we were maimed by the stoke twats as well that day… the refs didnt exactly give us the protection we were entitield to that day….
Mang we lost to Stoke because we dropped VP, Theo, Nasri for Song, Diaby, Bendtner, and that was when Song was in his “worst player to play for Arsenal” phase, Diaby was being written off by fans saying that he was never going to make it, and Bendtner was playing like a self-confessed sunday league player!
Yet they were all picked for their height, which was ridiculous imo.
WELL DONE GRAHAM POLL!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254472/GRAHAM-POLL-Ryan-Shawcross-tackle-Aaron-Ramsey-accident.html?ITO=1490
Pedders/A – I got the fouling stats from the BBC website for each match report. It was a case of going to each game report and adding up the fouls/yellows. A bit laborious but I was in one friday evening and had the time, Scarlet Johansen blew me out that night.
A; Although I really dont wanna go over past shit performances, I think we did play into Stokes hands as instead of playing our best 11, we played a team that, on paper was sposed to combat Stokes game plan… Plus last season, we contrived to put in some of the most lack lustre performances I have ever seen man…
But fuck that, its history and will be soon forgotten…
chary
Yeah she blew me once.
..oh you said ‘blew me out’
great take
http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog
Samir;
Graham Poll has grown some finally…
Samir, someone told me Poll is actually a gooner! I reckon he read my rant last week and sorted his game out…
Chary, that’s good stat gathering!
LOL Gambon.
It’s the wonders of an hours excel drudgery Pedders – just like being at work !
Chary, I had that guy from 7am over here bitching the other day! He claimed Le Grove was formulaic…
I didn’t have the heart to say his best writer was a regular over here
When we played Bolton in 2003 ,we had 3 players taken off with injuries sustained by over the top challenges. The media said nuffin, apart from how Arsenal blew the league etc. I would like to know what these teams team talks were just prior to the games starting and at half time… coz I am sure they were full of hysterical macho bollocks about getting into those soft arsed Arsenal players and doin em….
It aint about malice, unless the player is a cunt like Barton, it is about using excessive force because they have been geed up by a cunt of a manager… encouraged by the constant media barrage that Arsenal are there to be kicked and sythed down…
Pedro;
Well, he has a point…
Poll aint a Gooner, never has been…. He is a Manc…
He’s a Yank Mang, he probably meant ‘fucking amazing’.
Are you sure?
Regardless, he’s still a cunt.
Ethan had a good idea… fine the clubs for the players misgivings…
Properly though… not 2,500
Ah ok chary, you sure you didn’t mistake fouls for with fouls against?!
In the Fair play table for the prem they’re 17th, so 4th worst team for how dirty they are when it comes to cards
I think it was the anti US stuff that was the thing Pedders. Still he runs a great site that makes me chuckle in my middle aged way.
1 Fulham 29 1 31
2 Man City 34 2 38
3 Arsenal 41 0 41
4 Man United 34 4 42
Burnley 38 2 42
6 Blackburn 39 2 43
7 Aston Villa 41 2 45
8 Chelsea 38 4 46
Everton 42 2 46
Wigan Athletic 44 1 46
11 Tottenham 47 1 49
12 Birmingham 49 1 51
13 Liverpool 42 5 52
14 West Ham 47 3 53
15 Wolves 48 3 54
16 Bolton 51 2 55
17 Hull City 49 4 57
18 Stoke City 50 4 58
19 Portsmouth 57 4 65
20 Sunderland 55 6 67
That’s yellows, reds, and fair play points
A – the yellows given and “fouls committed” were put next to the team, not fouls “suffered”. It tallies up with my experience of just about every game I’ve ever attended – foul upon foul on us and a yellow given eventually – first or second infringement by us and a yellow comes out straight away.
As I said already, these foul leaguen tables are not worth a shit, as they ahve to be con sidered a foul first by the refs and as we have witnessed time and again, the refs turn a fucking blind eye when we are on the receiveing end of opposition tackles and shit…
ManG
They also turn a blind eye when we make bad challenges ie- Gallas vs Bolton.
Referees in this country are just useless, they arent against us, they are making mistakes all over the place.
ManG – the fouls I used were those actually penalised as such by the ref, .i.e. he blew up for them – of course those not called are another issue open to conjecture.
gambon – So you truly think there’s no difference when it comes to how referee’s treat us as opposed to other teams ?!
Keyser
I think the standard in this country is appalling, but i dont think there’s a concious conspiracy against us.
Chary, they’re not very good a poking fun at themselves… maybe that’s more of a British thing.
Keyser, I have to agree with Gambon, there’s not conspiracy…
Stoke rough everyone up… we’re just more susceptible to it because we’re light weight compared to other clubs.
Here’s an interesting fact from the half year results.
Between them Ade & Kolo were on £150k pw.
So does that mean Kolo was on £70k pw?
ah ok chary, so were Hull the most fouled team, or the team that committed the most fouls??
Gambon, I think we bonus our players up to their eyeballs…
Gambon;
Oh come on mate! Look at the foul booking count yesterday. Song gets booked while Stoke platyers get off man…. We shouldve had 3 penalties FFS! Gallas is the exception to the rule… Its like that cunt Cundy saying we are just as bad for doin Terry (which was funny!) as a retort to the 3 career threatening assaults we have suffered…
I think Cundy is sleeping with JT…
You can’t take a booking in isolation to prove the refs hate us…
and we have skillfull players with quick feet. it gets opponents frustrated
Pedro
No that was £150k from the wage bill, which i assume means the basic salaries theyre on.
Yeah, a different quality of humour Pedders – I mean I think “Two and a half men” is a hoot, while I find Little Britain too vulgar for my sensibilities.
As for Hull A, I’m guessing it’s fouls against Hull, although that doesn’t seem to make sense but Hull weren’t in my table of matches I looked at so I don’t know.
Gambon, wouldn’t it all go in the same pot?
Chary, have you seen Peep Show?
Gambon/Pedro;
I dont think there is a concerted effort on the part of refs to fuck us up, however, there definitely is a bias, in favour of big name England players and for what ever reason, some refs seem incapable of penalising certain players for fouls, as well as bad mouthing officials… We suffer as as a result of the widely held belief that we are a team of foregin fancy dans, it is most probably subconscious, but the constant media mantra about us being soft targets comes into play, IMO…
The amount of tackles it takes for us to get bookings compared to opposition players kind of bares that shit out to me, anyway…
united are pathetic about rooney, red nose:
“He got a whack right away,” said Ferguson.
“He has been complaining a little about that for a few weeks and was holding it a bit today.
“In fact, I thought we might have to take him off but he wanted to stay on so it was good.
“The doctors are assessing it and I don’t know what England are going to do.”
always happen before a friendly. no coincidence. chavs and mancs always do it(ballack, fat franck…) roooney will be running like a baboun next weekend, mugs
Peep show is hilarious
Another interesting one.
At the same age, here are the respective PL scoring stats for Cesc, Gerrard, Lampard.
Gerrard 5 in 34 games
Lampard 7 in 30 games
Cesc 13 in 24 games so far
He would also be much higher in assists as well.
That underlines just how far ahead of these guys Cesc is for his age. We absolutely have to keep him, whatever the cost.
I actually think when we look back in 10 years we’ll be talking about a guy who was as good as Zidane.
Cundy is bound to be sleeping with Terry, everyone in his vicinity is, for some reason…
ManG, I agree on the England thing totally… that’s why I think foreign refs might be the answer.
When I managed Sunday league last year, we went with the one person talks to the ref rule… no back chat.
In the end, it worked against us because decisions didn’t go our way.
I know it’s horrible, but sometimes, if you can’t beat them… join them. If United, Chelsea and Liverpool get away with it, maybe we should get involved?
Pedro – It’s not about conspiracies or hate, it’s more subtle than that, and I don’t think there’s anything lightweight about Ramsey either.
We matched Stoke all over the park yesterday, and somehow the only yellow of the game went to Song.
It’s like the Eduardo thing, do I think the refs decided we must always be cheating ? No, but do I think the whole media thing planted something in their mind, I think yes.
I agree that certain England players may get a lot of favourable treatment.
Great stats Gambon…
The amazing thing about Cesc at the moment is even when he’s off his game, he produces.
Gooby, not to forget Livershit do it with Gerrard quite often too.
Before the final kicked off they story with Rooney was that he was ill and sat out the last training session because of it. Its apparently a kick he got now…clearly a load of bullshit.
cesc is going to be the best in the world.
That Diamond club member I mentioned was at the training ground in the week and said that Rosicky and Fabregas are amazing finishers in training and display unbelievable technical ability.
Gambon;
I think Cesc has not only developed as a player, but his performances as a captain and human being recently have been exemplory… Yesterday he was immense, during the game ad in his post match interviews… The man is a legend…
Adding up fouls there isn’t actually that much of a difference between the number of fouls we suffer, and concede. Average of 14.2 fouls against us per game, 12.5 conceded by us
yeah stu,
if we had done this we may have kept RvP. hope cesc doesn’t play for spain. although the french don’t play too rough? they are usually proper tacklers
Kesyer… by light weight, I’m talking literally.
He’s a kid… talented, quick and tenacious… but not very heavy…
I guess if the refs do read the papers, they are going to be affected by the media.
No ref wants to give a penalty for a dive… that’s why I gave Eduardo so much shit when he did it… because it’ll always be the club that pays for diving in the long run.
Right chaps, I’m off, have a great night!
The thing is though, it not only works for the England players, it helps their team mates too! Look at Vidic today, he should have been sent off, and a few other mancs should have been booked too… Villa have a fair few England players, but obviously they aint as high profile as Rooney so they had to suffer!!
ManG
I think thats a bit of a stretch. Refs love Rooney so they wont send off Vidic?!
Pedro;
Night, but saying the diver’s team pays aint really true… We have a player who dives ONCE! We have paid for that all season, yet the likes of gerrard, Rooney and others before them are guilty of it yet donjt pay any consequences…. We are the cheats in the eyes of the media…
i m reading paul merson’s predictions.
he got our result right 3-1
also blew it by predicting a 3 nil for chelski, those wankers got humiliated instead
Gambon;
Vidic was the last man, he didnt even get a yellow card man… As well as a few other mancs who deserved bookings… But thats probably just the pro United bias, not putting it all on Rooney!
nite
The Hull fouls thing does surprise me, they average 14.96 fouls against them per game, 14.89 fouls by them, but some really weird games.
Against Liverpool they only fouled them 5 times, Liverpool fouled Hull 11, and Liverpool won 6-1
gambon it’s more that refs love utd/fergie and are scared to send them off, as well as loving the players a bit much!
I think a refs job is fucking almost impossible, players cheat all the time, for every little thing, not just dives, but throw ins FFS! Their job is made even harder by clueless pundits who scream for consistency, yet aint even consistent in their criticisms… What also doesnt help is the media picking and choosing which incidents to highlight and blow out of proportion… In the same week as Eduardo falling over Boruc we had Ashley Young diving not once, but twice in a game the day after. Did we hear about it? Did we fuck!
There is no logcial reason as to why Vidic didnt get sent off. He was last man, pulling Gabbys shirt, and tripped him to give the pk away.
Dont say it was too early in the match because thats bullshit. It was a red card offence and should have sent him off.
Villa got 2 bookings from 2 fouls, then Carrick fouled some Villa midfielder and the ref just waved him away. Its not a bias towards english players at united…its just a united bias. If the ref gives something against them Fergie will go ape-shit and they’ll get the worst of it.
gambon – Like in almost everything, the richest and most powerful people/clubs get preferential treatment and can use it to their advantage.
We’re just too nice to exploit it, and people in this country confuse surrounding the ref and going into tackles with the sort of force Shawcross did as a sign of passion and commitment, there’s no co-incidence that Shawcross broke Ramsey’s leg and Gallas didn’t break the Bolton players.
Referee’s are poor overall, I think the level the Premiership has got to has made it a lot harder for them, but I don’t think it’s a co-incidence say, that Vidic didn’t get sent off today, 5 mins into a Cup-final no Enlgish referee is going to send off a Manchester United player.
Didn’t take long for the ref in the Champions League final to make his decision though.
What about fouls that the ref plays advantage for? DO they get counted?
When we were supposedly a dirty team, how many legs, ankles did we break? I cant remember…
Can you imagine if we had smashed the bones of 3 English players in 4 years…
ManG
Its not like the same team were responsible for all of our breaks, it was 3 different teams.
Keyser imo reffing should be unified throughout Europe to create an overall accepted standard, refs rotating from country to country etc
Gambon;
That is the problem, it is a given tactic and standard practice for these teams to go in hard against us…
Look, I aint saying Shawcross went in to do Aaron, however, yet again an opposing player went in with enough force to break an Arsenal players leg…
How many other players has this happened to? Apart from Modric, I cant think of one…
Djibril Cisse, Alan Smith.
I aint saying it doesnt happen, but it is fucking rare to happen to one club in a pretty short period… Then again, obviously our players are made of bolsa wood… Is that it?
Gambon, do you even remember those leg breaks. Smith was blocking a shot and Cisse was a tangle of legs when he was running at full pelt.
Neither of those leg breaks were because of an oppo player going in hard. FACT!
Cisse and Smith were different though weren’t they – neither were bad tackles, they were unfortunate tangles of legs/bad falls.
I really do think it’s significant that all three of ours in the last 5 years have been bad tackles, by English players, managed by English managers, who were towards the bottom of the table, encompassing the “English fighting spirit” that’s so glorified in this country, Bulldog spirit etc.
I recall the likes of David Buust ( I think) breaking his leg and it was big news as that kinda injury rarely occured… Now its all part of the game and we should just accept it and move on, its a man’s game after all…. The fact it aint happened to an England player before a big International tournament is by the by…Oh hold on a minute, can you recall the abuse dished out to that Argentinian fella who did Beckhams metatarsal??? Now that was vicious…
Stu
Thats my point. Legs break, it doesnt always mean its an awful challenge. What happened yesterday woulve largely gone unnoticed if it wasnt for the broken leg. 99 times out of 100 no bones are broken.
ManG
Who knows. Maybe its a coincidence, maybe it isnt. Ian Wright broke his leg 3 times, im sure he never said there was a cinspiracy against him.
Gambon..you always quote stats…
Dont you think its significant that it has happened to to one team 3 times 4 years…
Remember it happened to Abou In May 2006…
Again remember these injuries are rare..therefore if it happens to one team 3 times in 4 years….then you have to say its significant…
Its because its the accepted tactic against Arsenal..its as simple as that….
They might not intend to end player;s careers but they certainly do play us extra physical
Obviously not all breaks are because of awful tackles but when the break is at the hands (or should that be feet) or another player then it is an awful tackle imo, otherwise there would have been no break.
ian wright broke his leg because of his nature, it was generally him doing crazy things, no conspiracy, but it was because of the way he was.
We’ve suffered broken legs because of the natures of the teams they play against us, and the way they are against us.
A;
I have said it before and I will say it again… This English preocupation with grit, overly physical challenges and a clinging onto a past where by “doing” an opponent was fair game and an acceptable tactic is holding us back… The only problem is we do not produce enough players of sufficient technique to erase this from our national sport…
What did Abou do wrong that merited him getting fucked up for a year> Nothing, he was done by a clogger who was just pissed off his team was being outplayed and wanted to dish it out…. Eduardo was done by a playewr who wanted to show his more talented and techniquely gifted opponent that he wasnt gonna be in for an easy game… Completely over the top and unneccesary “challenge” and Ramsey… he was the victim of a given and accepted belief that to unsettle Arsenal, one has to go in hard… No malice, obviously, but the manager has told us to get stuck in…
Yep, agree 1 billion percent Mang, even studied that in a module at uni!
Technique and genuine footballing ability is put on par with what is essentially thuggishness as a positive when assessing a player in England!
And technical players are looked down upon almost if they aren’t thugs!
Diving means players are the scum of the earth, but intentional fouling, blocking players etc, except in extreme cases, is “clever defending” or “experience”
etc etc etc….
I don’t blame Shawcross nor Pulis as some do, they’re just victims of the culture they’re playing in, and have been brought up in, and caricatures of that element of our game.
I am watching the replay of the game..I dont think Shawcross was actually crying…
He looked as if he was forcing it….didnt look all that genuine to me…..maybe I am biased….
BUt he really looked as if he was forcing the tears out….now everyone is feeling sorry for him…
Shawcross actually looks retarded….
100% agree there Ja_. I saw no tears either…just an ugly face.
A;
We live in a country where the consensus amongst the ex-pro pundits is that to spit in an oppnents face is far worse than breaking their leg… Never mind having foreign refs, the more foreign players we have as pundits might help the situation… The likes of Andy Townsend and Mark Lawrenson are relics from a past I would rather forget…
Exactly MG, most of the pundits see little to nothing wrong with leg breaking challenges because when they played football it was the ONLY way to stop the opposition.
Yeah Stu..he was making ugly faces and trying to force some tears out…it didnt look natural at all..and as someone else said he only started to do all that when he saw the red card…..
Oh well lets just hope we can win the league for Ramsey because he will get a medal as well..its a pity Sol cant get one too….
The medals should be given to even players making one appearance in my opinion…
Reason being…look what Macheda did for Manure last season….he only made a couple appearances but he scored 2 vital goals(the last one being a deflection)
BUt the point is a player could make one appearance and make enough impact to affect the outcome of the league…..
Basically it all boils down to English Imperialism…. We cannot accept that we invented the game, yet are are 2nd rate in football, as we can’t accept we are 2nd rate in terms of a world power… We need to be top dogs in something FFS! If we lose the right to go in hard, call it firm but fair, not malicious, trot out statements about how the perpitrator is a good lad, loves his mum and adopts orphaned, we are seriously doomed!!!
gambon – When did Ian Wright break his leg three times ? The games supposed to have moved on since then and it’s supposed to be a lot less physical yet, in the last 4 years we’ve had 3 players break their legs, how many does it take before you think there might be some sort of correlation here ?!
Speaking of diving and such like as well, foreigners all divers British players honest etc etc, I was at Sampa Fiorentina couple of weeks ago, and it struck me that British players are just better divers! Players in the Spanish or Italian leagues don’t dive more than those in the Prem, but they just aren’t as good, when they dive they’re twice as flamboyant, arch their backs, flail their arms all over the place, whereas the likes of Young and Gerrard are much more quintessentially English, more reserved and subtle in their diving!
A serie A player will arch his back, flail his arms, and roll 37 times, but Gerrard or Rooney will just drag their feet trying to make contact, going down so that should contact not happen, it could just be that they lost their balance, and the look to the ref wasn’t a hopeful one….
A;
That is some un patriotic shit there fella!
Are you suggesting we are actually a world leader in something???
I don’t think Shawcross wanted to injure Ramsay but it seems to be yet another unfortunate product of the “in their face” tactics adopted by certain managers and that the media continues to perpetuate as tactically valid.
There has been a significant part of the media suggesting that Arsenal play too quick a football and that some teams struggle to cope with this, thus meaning such injuries are bound to happen. I would counter that if a team is unable match Arsenal within the rules of the game then they should not be allowed to profit through reckless lunges whether they happen to cause injury or not. Tackles like Shawcross’ seem to be made in an effort to force the better team to not compete for 50/50s for fear of injury and such an attitude should not belong in the game. Teams should be scared of committing fouls against a superior opposition rather than said opposition being scared of receiving them as seems to have become the accepted norm, especially when Arsenal play less adept footballing sides.
Within the game itself I see challenges such as Shawcross’ as a lesser evil than the constant niggly fouls Arsenal suffer as those are there purely to foul rather than to compete but the consequences of these over-zealous lunges is potentially far more devastating and both aspects can be directly attributed to certain managers trying to counter better teams with tactics that go beyond what is reasonable.
It is up to the FA and referees to adjust and the rules and their enforcement to root out such approaches. This could be most easily done by actually blowing for fouls and carding where needed, no matter how early in the game. I would also like to see referees speaking to the captains and letting them know that the next player on their side who breaches the rules will be carded (as done in rugby), hopefully stopping the team wide fouling used by certain clubs.
It would also be good to see certain pundits shut up about their frankly mundanely stupid and incorrect views regarding the rules (Lawrenson is the prime example). If a player deserves a card in the first minute the pundit should not bemoan the referee for using it even if it “ruins the game as a spectacle”.
Here’s hoping that Aaron has a speedy and completely successful recovery and also that the resilience shown by the team in getting the win under difficult circumstances can continue for the rest of the season and lead us to the trophy.
(Might post this tomorrow as well as I think it’s says what I’m thinking well).
Ha I do apologise Mang, Rule Britannia and all that…. It was just something that struck me when I was watching the game in person – an objective observation. The number of dives wasn’t dissimilar from a Premiership game, but they were just SOOOO bad at diving, whereas it’s something that Gerrard, Rooney and Ashley Young are extremely skilled at….
Maybe it is just a cultural thing, British prudishness vs continental flamboyancy?!
On the English thing: I’m not sure I agree Mangoonian. England do have some very good and skillful players it’s just that they also have some truly woeful ones, but so does every country.
The trouble is in England the difference between skillful and wholehearted is whitewashed over in a media led shitfest that basically stops the national team stepping up to where it should be. I’m not suggesting the England team is the best in the world at all (it isn’t) but it’s not as bad as some would have you believe. It would just be a lot better if certain players weren’t held a high simply for running around a lot and going in “full bloooded”. Not only does it becoming achingly embarrassing when those players play against very good teams like the current Spanish team but it also stops the cream from rising to the top as those who are just very good at doggy paddling keep getting encouraged along with it.
I just think we British are just too reserved and dont like to blow our own trumpets… We are world class at diving, yet are too self conscious and humble to shout it from the roof tops!
This kicking Arsenal out of games started with man United and their over the top fouls on Reyes and his team mates… it has been an acceptable tactic ever since…
If it is OK for Fergies mob, then that means the rest can do like wise…
Nighty night…
All the best Aaron…
England have a ,lot of skillful players And a Prayer, trouble is, the way these players are coached, they get overlooked in favour of the big lumps due to the ancient training methods and practices… Just sign up the big lumps who dont mind dishing it out…
FFS! I have to get up in 4 hours…
MG – agreed, it will be interesting to see how Wenger’s up and coming English players who seem to be pretty good (as we know) will be greeted by the media when they realise that they aren’t going to play like the average English shire horse.
In some ways (and I’m loathed to say it) the fact that Rooney and Gerrard and a few others are as good as they are despite the coaching makes me think what could have been had the coaching been better (not this season for Gerrard obviously and I hate admitting that the twats are good at all).
that’s a ridiculous statement A !
the English game is faster , tougher
and if you think the English players dive better ,its only because they have a thing called Reflex action , it helps you avoid contact in a high paced game ..
the theatrics of European and south American teams far supersedes the English game ..
Ronaldo was a prime example , every dive a European award for best actor .
But so dramatic its clearly fake ..
thank fuck he’s back in Spain where he can now do it all day long and they lap it up !
Also Ref’s arent fuckin stupid !
they catch 95% of the play , and the Brit Refs are brutal !
thats why we DONT DIVE ..
and yes some are good at diving eboue springs to mind , he’s done some classics ..
Dudu …
we are all guilty ..
but i think the Italians are still the best at it ….
“thats why we DONT DIVE .. ”
lol, that’s one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time!
Gerrard and Young are the two biggest divers in the league by some distance, both in terms of the ridiculous ways they try and cheat when there’s no chance of a foul, the way they throw themselves over, and the number of times they try it EVERY game!
There is just as much diving in the English game, but foreigners are just more dramatic, more flamboyant.
Eboue compared to Gerrard is a perfect example, though Eboue has calmed it down a bit. Gerrard and Young have ALWAYS dived more often, and in situations where they’re trying to cheat much more, but they dive in an English fashion, a Franny Lee fashion, the kicking the ball past someone, and dragging of the legs as they throw themselves to the ground to manufacture contact.
The Italians aren’t good at it at all, they’re REALLY bad at it! It’s just that we’ve gotten good at it, so you have to look at replays over and over again to see if it was a dive or a genuine foul, the British have become amazingly skilled at it. Whereas everytime an Italian goes down the flailing of the arms, arched back, and rolly pollies mean that you can’t miss it.
Though actually that our not diving thing could well be tongue in cheek, like the AA23 comment earlier, in which I apologise, and agree with how ridiculous it is the British mentality that some people genuinly think that, and that diving was brought to England by foreigners, ignoring our history!
think about it .. in simple terms A …
how many fatal accidents happen in a car park ? and how many happen on a freeway ?
players like theo and cesc get straight back up again because they know OUR refs wont buy it 90% of the time ..
i have nothing against drawing a foul ..
its done in all sports ..
if someone is playing on you heavy you push back ,
here … i think there is one english player here in the whole lot … with cameo’s from bobby and jens .. BOTH NOT ENGLISH
crespo’s ones a classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_r-4F6624&feature=related
a what realy impressed me about the players is they matched stoke and showed they stand up there style but i feel there a bit of confusion between tough tackling and recklessness steve bruce bold adams keon these are the old school defenders and they tough rugid defenders but they new how make clean tackles yes they got some of players sometimes but they got the ball first and new how time there tackles they know way they would have made such clumsy reckless tackle like that, so what if this players was crying is tears will try up soon enough and ramsey will be out good long long while thanks to this players recklessness
A
you obviously don’t watch A lot of other football then other than the EPL ..
broaden your horizons ..
some of the most blatant classic dives EVER go to European and south American football ..
cheating is a part of the game there ..
everything from match fixing to diving …
anyhow why do you waffle on about the most Unimportant subjects in history and drone on about it sprinkling the stats about like some pre-rehearsed school play /?
Your a Rare Bear …
Ethan – English players seem to rarely adopt the purely ridiculous ones shown in this clip as I genuinely think they’d never be able to live it down when they next go to the pub.
They do, however, dive just as much as anyone else with some (Gerrard) doing it more than most. Just because they avoid the purely crazy ones doesn’t mean they don’t do it.
Also, does anyone else think that Pires just looks like he loses his balance in that clip? He did some great dives so it seems an odd choice to use.
leon Says:
March 1, 2010 at 02:10
a what realy impressed me about the players is they matched stoke and showed they stand up there style
———————
stoke were all over us for 30 minutes
testing al with long bombs and scoring 1st ..
you make it sound like they didnt turn up …
as ever we had a better 2nd half … WHATS NEW ?