The rumour mill is wild today with reports saying that Kolo is off to Man City, Eboue off to Italy and we are to sign Huntelaar and young midfielder Lee Cattermole.
Kolo at his age has one year left on his contract and the ACN coming up may not be bad business. He has lost some of his spark since he got malaria and he doesn’t get on with Gallas so maybe there’s some truth in it, I love Kolo but I won’t be devastated if this one is true and for £15mil, well I guess that represents good business.
Eboue on the other hand is a great right back and unless Wenger sees him as a midfielder I don’t see that as a great move, also that will make three departures and for a manager that said no one was going I have to cast some doubt on that rumour.
However, if all three are replaced properly and not from within, I wouldn’t be too upset, for instance if we got in Huntelaar and he did become that goalscoring machine it would be a shrewd move, if he replaced Kolo with a big strong centreback like Sakho or Zapata that would be a good move and if he brought in Cattermole for Eboue as a midfield replacement maybe that would combine his youth bit with the tenacious midfielder we crave, I just don’t know, but Cattermole did impress me at the under 21′s and he is a rising English star, dare I say it, but in the Nobby Stiles/ David Batty role.
Then we should think about selling Senderos and Silvestre as we will have more than enough cover with Djourou and Song in there.
You may all shout me down with Cattermole but this boy could be just what we need. Maybe this team is getting a bit stale and maybe replacing the trio of Ade, Kolo and Eboue makes sense.
We know Huntelaar can score, as he got the first ever goal at the Grove and we had Vieira, Henry, and Bergkamp in that game, maybe he needs the challenge after his nasty rejection by Madrid, what is clear is we do need a big lump at the back and maybe Kolo has run his course.
I just hope we do something, this team needs a change, we the fans are in need of some new faces to cheer on and maybe this will push us over the line to win the EPL this season. We will be fusing youth with experience and with Huntelaar, Vela, Robin, Theo, Arshavin and Bendtner around we won’t be short of goals, at least Huntelaar knows the offside rule.
I’m looking forward to the game tonight as hopefully we’ll get to see Eduardo, Arshavin and Rosicky in the same side, we won’t have Theo and Cesc back until the weekend so that will give him another chance to play Wilshere, Ramsey and Diaby, if Diaby can manage another game without an injury maybe I’ll start believing, he had a great game last time out so let’s see if he can continue tonight, Ramsey looked on fire, that’s for sure.
Watching YaYa at the weekend showed us what we could have had but there you go, we can’t dwell on the past, we need to bring in replacements for whoever we sell and if Kolo and Eboue go as well then we should have around £38 million left after the Vermaelen purchase, more than enough to bring in the fab three I mentioned. And leave some change over to help pay the National debt.
We’ll know more this week as I’m guessing all the transfer business will have to be concluded by the weekend when we host the Emirates cup.
Until tomorrow Grovers, enjoy tonight.
P.S. Pedro is out knocking on doors today, flanked by a couple of unsavoury looking characters… make sure your door isn’t one of them, sign up to our fantasy league in the sidebar and do it sharpish.
A,
It just shows you that Hagelland is terriffic.
am sure you will get us a rocket for a CB, but understand that we will jump at hangelland. If he adds the hunter and a CD, perfect. Then we will not just compete but definitely win the EPL and the champions league. Why he hasn’t done it really beats me!
Because wenger knows that neither of them are what we need confident!!
You do realise your video was someone saying how ridiculous that was because hangeland is actually so slow!
I watched Hangeland up close on saturday and whilst I thought that he was a good defender, but just very very slow so not what we needed, on saturday he wasn’t even that good in the air! I guess it was because they were a prem team against a championship team so dominated possession and territory, therefore he couldn’t sit as deep, so was exposed. Exactly what would happen the entire time with us.
yes,so we will be lucky to get any.Would happily swap kolo for haggeland,gallas and vermalen are the same type of defender and gallas is more of a leader[not captain!] mite as well take man citys silly money once wenger spends it.It might not be around for long
I don’t see them as the same type of defender bk – vermaelen is a first defender, he tried to win the first ball, gallas is the number two, playing alongside someone like vermaelen, someone a bit more aggressive.
I could see Kolo being sold though
swede,no he was absolutly kak.I was laughing in frustration by the end.But he did well in some big games and has class for a young fella.He’ll do as the big man when we need that
A
Do you believe Ade was sold because he did not drop back and drifted wide enough? that he was not involved in the buildup +
Althought i understand it, i dont like idea of 1 CB that wins the ball and 1 that plays it. Its like thw whole DM and AM debate.
I would rather we have 2 CBs that can do both so we arent restricted or easier to beat. Rio and Vidic can both win the ball and although Rio is better at using it Vidic is capable of playing it forward. Same with Terry and Carvalho or Alex. Both than do either job.
So 2 all round CBs and 2 CMs in midfield. Perfect
Swedish Gun, Ade wasnt sold because he didnt get involved with play. He was sold because when he did do so he fucked our attacks up. Simple as..
bk
I think Bendy has the potential to be a great attacker but he is not there yet and should def not be Arsenals first or second option
sagna gallas verm clichy…….that surely has to be the worlds smallest back 4
swede,ade was sold because he’s a langer
stu you dont ask for much really
it would be ashavin and eddie for me two clever mofos
Im easy to please bk.
I actually think Bendtner is good enough to start for us. Not as first choice obviously but depending on the formation we play he could be as high as first reserve.
Best way to increase the defensive height is to promote gibbs ahead of Clichy (+2inches), buy Gretar Steinsson for right back
, Roland Juhasz and Naldo?
Stu
It was A that said Ade was sold because he did not get involved in play
I say he was sold becoz his workrate dropped to much after his payrise and his flirtation with other clubs made him the most unwanted at this club
not been biter but ade is a bit thick,some times i think he only realised what cesc was thinking when he saw it on match of the day.See cesc and arshavin towards the end of the season,poetry in motion.And cesc was just back!
swede not that he didn’t do it – he tried to do it, but that he was just incapable of contributing in that sense. That’s one of the reasons anyways, not the only reason.
Stu the reason vidic and rio, and terry and carvalho are such good partnerships is precisely because they compliment each other! Vidic is the primary headerer, rio is the composed cultured one, likewise terry is the primary man, carvalho the secondary one.
Obviously you need both to be good all round, but one is always gonna be better in one way, one in the other.
A
why do u think wenger played Senderos DM today?
was it a serious play to se if he is up to it+
A,exactly gallas and kolo are too similar and i would settle for playing alittle deeper once the ball was getting cleared especially against shit teams like stoke and drogba
Song and Senderos as our DM options lol
Oh of course A. Im aware of that. Its just that both defenders should be able to do either. Know what i mean? Which is why i dnt like the idea of buying someone to win the headers for Gallas or Toure.
Like Vermaelen. He is supposedly strong in the air, yet he is also good on the ball.
senderos as the new dm,clutching at straws spring to mind….
I really doubt it Swedish, though you never know. Possibly against teams like Stoke, but he certainly isn’t trying him out to see if he’s the solution to our DM problem, can’t believe that for a second!! He could be an option there if we were playing a defensive system, but i still really doubt it’ll happen, and certainly not regularly.
It might just be to keep him match fit to appease whoever signs him if he decides to leave.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him, I’d like him to stay though as he’s better cover imo at centre back than jd
Yeah i agree with that stu, which is why i’m so against the hangeland idea which i think is just a ridiculous rumour that would never happen, but i’ve been wrong a bit recently so you never know!!
BBK, got any ideas?
Sendersong?
Songderos?
Or more simplistic: Senderosong (but thats just being lazy)
A,
Fans like you are the only reason,why we finish fourth every season.Are you an undercover Spud or wha?Huntelaar wouldnt fit in at Arsenal,whereas Kalou would!Ridiculous to say the least.I have no effing clue about the ridiculous logic put forward by you apparently to back up the club’s policies.Arsenal FC is greater than Arsene Wenger.
Sylvestre for Defensive Mid,anyone?
Anyone except A to raise your hands?
on to another matter barca really did get bumped didn’t they i mean eto for ibrabignoseidiot lolllllllllllllllhahahahhahaa.you got bumpercared
c’mon now silvest for d.m you been smoking today
stu-how about icantdefenderos
fulham conceded less goals than us last season,must mean something.
BBK, Senderos = Petit! hahah
Both were CBs. Both converted to CDM by Wenger..
pat do you really think senderos has got the mobility to get around the pitch?
BBK
I was stating that some AFC board members over here,would come up with that reason,to support his transfer last season.
His transfer is the worst ever in Arsenal’s history.Even FJ did better.
exactly bk we need someone who just likes defending fuck all this being able to play bollocks, we need a big nasty defender who’s tall enough to deal with the aerial threat and kicks the ball into row fucking zzzzzzzzz
Yes of course Jaguar, you just made yourself sound far from intelligent, well done.
Neither Kalou nor Huntelaar would fit into our system, though based on the idiocy of that post I’m guessing you don’t have the footballing knowledge or intelligence to understand different systems and how they work, what they require etc so there’s no point trying to explain it to you.
Both of the above players I’d be happy for if we could acquire them for a nominal feel, which is why I said about Kalou because for 7 mil he’d add depth to our squad, just as Huntelaar would for 7 mil.
However to justify breaking our transfer record, which is what it would cost to sign Huntelaar, it just wouldn’t be justified as he couldn’t be a guaranteed starter for us, and wouldn’t fit in with the football we play.
bk, use common sense please. No shit, they play very deep and defensive.
As it stands right now I think we wont even be 4th
baahh.. and its a sad feeling…really sucks..
almost giving up before the season starts
bbk,+a shit load of cash and our old buddie . eto is only 28 with a beter record.laporta must be smoking some of the real good shit
Petit was more of a left back come sweeper. Not a proper CB.
really swedish?! as it stands right now i think we’ll be challenging for the title until the very end!
1)Hangelaand is slow
2)KJH is not a natural goal scorer
3)Senderos is the solution to Arsenal’s midfield woes.
4)Chamakh and Kaloue are the only players who would seamingly fit into Arsenal’s style of play.
I am waiting for some more of those theories from some ‘knowledgeable’ pundits out here.
Wenger says the squad is full and we should trust it….”sigh”
A-if you are that confident you should get down to the bookies and stick a bet on.
Hangeland is ridiculously slow Jaguar, anyone who’s watched him can see that….
BBK, how a tripple threat? Denilsongderos. No way of fitting Diaby or Silvestre in their unfortunately.
A
good for you
I am not that optimistic
I feel I am more of a realist
pat,best defence wins the league.we should surely be conceding less than fulham,in fairness
Jaguar, it seems you just made up the last 4.
I have never read A say any of those 4.
i consider myself to be a realist swedish, i’m basing my feeling on what i see as rational analysis of the situation!
stu-did you like that one icantdefenderos
.
A
Anyone who watch Hangeland can see he is class
reads the game very well and intercept almost anything
A,
What made you think that KJH wouldnt fit into our style of play.Its true that he doesnt contribute to the general play outside the box.But we’ve become too predictable with our overelaboration,and he would ideally be the man,who would conjure up a goal out of nothing.I do apologise if I were being disrespectful to you.
A
I know u do
I still see us lacking a complete central spine
Hangeland is shit. He can stay where he’s at. Cahill is a LOT better. If I can choose any defender in the PL I think it’d be King(when fit) or Vidic.
BBK, it was clever but …meh, it was ok. You can do better….i hope.
Swedish, Hangeland looks class with all his interceptions and headers because he has about 20sq yards to cover because they play so deep. Therefore there is less space for the attackers to work with and inevitably Hangeland would find it easier to win the ball.
Try him in out defence with the whole half behind him to defend and he would be shite.
Jaguar, i would normaly agree that we are too predictable but 70 goals last season (or whatever we scored) would disagree. You can know whats coming, doesnt mean you can stop it.
haha stu you now it was sheer class some say it was a classic but i just call poetry in motion
Precisely because he doesn’t contribute to the general play outside the box Jaguar. With Ade we lost our fluidity, we became predictable, only hleb and rosicky playing with cesc could actually work when Ade was in front of them.
As with Barca the system we’re trying to develop is one where every attacking player is interchangable, every attacking player has the ability to pop up anywhere on the pitch, and both score and provide for others to score. They have to all be able to rotate and exchange positions with each other, which makes them very very hard to mark. You can’t have one player who is in a rigid position, because it takes away freedom from the others, and closes up the space. With all the attacking players wandering all over the pitch it drags the defenders all over the place. All you need is one person to drift away from his “position”, and it drags a defender away, which creates space for another attacker to go into, which drags another defender away etc etc, it’s a dominos effect that leads to an attempt on goal. All you need is one person standing in the middle, staying in the box, and it means the defenders know that they’re just going to be there, so aren’t dragged out of position, and it limits the effectiveness of the entire system.
Huntelaar would be someone who would score goals, and be a good addition to the squad, but he wouldn’t fit into our system, and therefore would never be an absolute regular, let alone one of our best players, and would therefore never be able to justify paying a transfer record fee for him.
Stu
You don’t know that
I think his awerness and anticipation would give him a great head start
He would be our best defender…better than Gallas
a-now that barca have signed ibra do you think he would suit there style of play?????
A,
I do agree that,a striker is not our most important priority.But would you trust Denilson/Song for us to thrust a title challenge this season,or do we have to bear with the policy of fitting square pegs in round holes for one more season?
I may not know it as gospel Swedish but im pretty sure of it. More sure than you can be that he would read every situation and be on the end of every ball stopping anyone from running on to it.
Say there is a ball over the top. If the striker has a starting position 5 yards behind Hangeland he will always get to the ball first because Hangeland, for all his great reading of the game, cant magically make himself faster than the striker.
Get it?
A, i think the best example of that is Nthe second of Nasris goals against the mancs at the grove.
Swedish he’s very very slow.
We play a high line.
Balls will be played over the top of him, and he’ll have to turn and chase repetedly.
It really is as simple as that, no amount of anticipation can morph you 20 yards or make you win a race.
He’s playing in a team where it’s impossible for teams to play in balls behind him because he’s rarely further forward than his own area! We play a system that is as close to the opposite of Fulham’s defensive set up as possible!
Whereas Fulham’s plays to all his strengths and protects his weaknesses, ours would put massive pressure on his weaknesses, and he’d be made to look attrocious!!
Seriously he was playing in a higher line than usual on Saturday because they were dominating, and Championship forwards made him look very silly, in the champions league or against anyone quick in the prem he’d be humiliated!
I wouldnt trust Denilsong to win us something on their own. But if they were second choice DM then i would be fine with that. Problem is, we dont have a proper top quality DM there to keep them out.
Balls!
BOY BETTER KNOW Says:
July 28, 2009 at 00:56
a-now that barca have signed ibra do you think he would suit there style of play?????.i posted it again just in case you missed it….
bbk – been wondering about that, where he’ll play etc, have to just wait and see how they set up with him there.
It depends Jaguar, I think we can challenge with them there as long as Cesc, Arshavin, Rosicky, Nasri are clicking in midfield, if their ball retention is what Hleb, Cesc, and Rosicky’s was in 07/08 it would take so much pressure off them then they’d be absolutely fine as our DMs, though I’d still rather someone better, who didn’t need the pressure to be taken off them.
I really rate Flamini at the same level as Denilson/Song, but Hleb, Rosicky, and Cesc were just SO good that they made life very easy for him, and made him look alot better than he really is. If Denilson or Song had been in that team then I think they could have been overrated and praised as Flamini was.
However I really don’t think we’ll have to see if we can challenge with them, because I expect Wenger to sign a DM at the start of August!
Basically Jaguar imo Denilson/Song aren’t going to win us a title, but we could win a title with them in the team.
we wont be winning no league unless they learn how to defend and stop playing such a high line because clearly they can’t handle that sort of defending,it catches us out every single time
A, Flamini was not that over rated. He wasnt world class but he was great in that midfield. Stop Flamini bashing! Dont mae me tell you again!
A – Come on, so Hleb wasn’t over-rated by the people who were sad to see him go ?!
Flamini was not over rated,if anything he was underrated,especially by the club.Same as denisaong youre havin a laugh
What a load of bollocks. The Hunter has a sensational goalscoring record and never got in the Real Team because the main man and friend of the King of Spain is undroppable.
When Teams are defending with 9/10 behind the ball it doesn’t matter how many strikers make runs to create space as these Teams just stand their ground and don’t even leave their own half.
We need an out and out world class goalscorer just like the other big Teams have to win the Big games.
As for all this defending analasys as nobody taken the Keeper into the equation. Yes Hangerlaand was good for Fulham but they have a sensible Keeper too.
If we had Ferdinand/Vidic or Terry/Alex it would make little difference if we were to carry on conceding long range shots from areas where the CBs dare not venture.
we do need a world Class CB and a DM but we also desperately need a world class Keeper.
See A. I told you he wasnt over rated. That frenchman was quality!!
I think Hleb was very underrated Keyser, our entire system was built around him, without him it didn’t work, and he nearly won us the title, with a bit of help from others obviously!
You keep saying that Hangeland is so slow
He is just as fast as Ferdinand and Vidic..they don’t do to bad do they
Hangeland is better than what we got and would help us keep lots of clean sheets
Well El tel, if we had a quality DM that closed down shots the Almunias quality (or lack there of) wouldnt be an issue.
Flamini is a good allround player but he was hardly a DM moster, he just worked his socks off and covered lots of ground.
The Flamster was way to far forward towards the end of his last season and that was when we lost the title.
Gilberto would have been a better option for another season.
Swedish, do you even watch united? Rio was a very pacey defender in his day and althought he has lost some of that he isnt as slow as Hangeland. Not by a long way.
As for Vidic, he is miles better than Hangeland as a defender so his pace isnt an issue. And anyway, do you remember Villa vs Mancs at OT? Gabby ran about 40yards with the ball and Vidic was next to him most of the way.
I never seen song or denilson get worked up the way silva or flamini would and gilberto was fairly quite.What was wenger doing leaving both go together
el tel huntelaar has an incredible goalscoring record in holland, but bare in mind it’s slightly worse than kezman, and much worse than alves’! goalscoring in holland means very little. I still think he’s a very good goalscorer, but wouldn’t fit into our system.
He was given a couple of chances at real and didn’t make it, though obviously they aren’t patient. Playing our football can and does work against teams who play ten men behind the ball, but obviously there will be odd occasions where we need to use long balls to bendy, or eduardo’s clinicalness to sniff out a goal when it isn’t working, someone clinical like Huntelaar would never be our plan A though unless we changed our system, and therefore couldn’t command that sort of a fee!
Whilst he’s a good goalscorer he certainly isn’t world class anyways, or he would have shown it at Real!
We lost the title because Rosicky got injured and the midfield fell apart. And then Flamini got injured against Liverpool and was out for the rest of the season (i think).
Stu
The Keeper is piss poor on crosses, gets beat from long range and dives to early at 1 v 1s. Our defence looks all over the place since he got the No. 1 jersey and great defences need better keepers than he will ever be.
As for the long range shooting I do agree to an extent but it takes more than one DM to screen the areas we got done from in a few games last season.
Hull (home) Spuds (home) Mancs (home CLSF)40 yarders screaming in.
Opposition players don’t usually bother trying from these outragious distances if the Keeper is decent but strangely other sides probably noticed it as a weakness.
Swedish Ferdinand is very quick, he’s lost a bit of his pace but he’s still much quicker than the average centre back!! Utd don’t play as high a line as us, and vidic isn’t the quickest but he’s still a fair bit quicker than hangeland, who’s VERY slow.
A. – Heh, not what I asked, but it’s ok.
Fabregas probably took the most fulsome of praise, but I seriously question anyone that feels Hleb was some sort of stand out figure from it, that was one of the most efficient teams the Premiership has probably seen, when you consider each indivudlas assests and limitations and what working together they managed to exert from one another.
I think you’ve summed it up with he nearly won us the title and he was nearly good enough to be in a title winning team.
Whats funnier?
Saying Hangeland is better than Gallas
OR
Saying Hangeland has the same pace as Rio and Vidic
hahaha. CLueless. Sorry mate but you obviously don’t watch United. Its not personal(I don’t even know who said it) but its a stupid statement.
You are right Stu about the Flamster getting injured.
A I see where your coming from but the he played in Holland thing doesn’t wash as they have produced more great players than almost all other European sides. RVP, DB10, Overmars at our Club alone.
I saw Vidic get caned against Torres and he looked slow as fuck then. The reason the Mancscum defence are good is because they are disciplined and have a decent Keeper.
el tel it wasn’t all almunia’s fault, he couldn’t do much about most of the long shots, it was a combination of things, one was they had more space because denilson didn’t have the physical attributes to cover enough ground and close people down, one was the defence being slow at coming out to close people down, one was that it was just ridiculously unlucky for us that so many people hit shots really sweetly!! The same players will try and shoot from those distances every game, but only one in every 20 will be hit that nicely!
Almunia is only in as an adequate stop gap until fabianski takes over the number one spot anyways, he’s someone who wouldn’t win us a title, but we could win the title with him in the team.
Terry is slow too but a certain little Northern outfit wanted to pay 40 mill for him. He is a decent defender in most peoples book but he is slow.
el tel that makes no sense!!
Because there have been great dutch players it means Huntelaar is a great player?! I don’t get that at all….
I dont rate Terry that highly at all.
Imo all he has is the “JT spread” (copyrighted) and he just goes through the oppo strikers. No actual talent.
I miss that fabgasmic midfield. The combination of cesc, rosicky, hleb, and flamini, was simply sublime.
But lets not forget we still have half of that midfield.
Yeah he’s very slow el tel, he’d be shit for us imo!
Keyser there was no standout figure in that team, but Hleb was the heart of it. Everyone played their part, everyone complimented everyone else, but if you were to pick one player who was the most intergral to the system, who if you took him out would cripple the system, then Hleb was that man. We were like a completely different side when he didn’t play, it just couldn’t work in the same way, much more than anyone else.
He isn’t a great overall player, but he made that system great, if only the squad had some depth that year it would have won us a title.
Yes, and a certain team paid 25 million for Ade. Your point is?!?!?!
Imo, Carvalho and Alex are better than JT. Remember, english players are usually overrated.
A
I really want you to be right about the Tapas bar waiter but Nic Anelka did him from distance too and Drogshit does it for fun. How about the calamity at Stoke and I believe Wenger dropped him following that game and pretended he was injured.
In the CLSF he was on the deck before any of the goals were scored and he even let Jonny nobodies hopeful punt go over his head in the first match.
I know all Goalies concede dodgy goals now and then but this bloke makes a bad habit of doing it in very important games. I just want to see a match winning performance from him on a regular basis.
A quote from the great Brian Clough regarding Peter Shilton.
He saves us 10 points per season (Shilton) at the time it was 2 points for a win. Thats what we need.
No wonder the defence looks ill disciplined including the midfield if the main man is piss poor.
Half of a midfield is nothing especially for a team that plays possession football where the midfield is the most important.
And who the fuck writes this??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1202611/Kolo-Toure-quits-Arsenal-15million-Manchester-City-defender-capture-Mark-Hughes–EXCLUSIVE.html?ITO=1490
Already saying he might feature for them in the next game?? Also, all our players have denied that they’re leaving…other than Eboue and Toure.
Well we still have Fabregas, Rosicky and Arshavin is better than Hleb. So all we need is another Flamini. Easy as pie.
Yeah el tel i agree a top keeper can save a team ten points still as clough said, but you don’t need a great keeper to win the league is all I’m saying. Fabianski will become a great keeper, hopefully sooner rather than later!!
Pat it’s the Daily Mail – why do you act like you’re surprised?!
I can’t wait to see the downfall of ade. He was like cesc’s prostitute, he relied on his services.
However if toure does go i wish him all the best. In my eyes he’s a legend and has a heart of gold. I also see why wenger is selling him. That liverpool match was the last straw for our central defence. I saw wengers face when liverpool equalised to make it 4-4.
A my point is that people on here come out with ” he played in the Dutch League” IMO the Dutch league is very suitable to the style of players that do well in the Prem even more so if they are from Ajax.
Pat
I was being ironic, I don’t rate JT at all but he was put forward earlier as a good defensive partnership.
He is very slow so where does the Hangerlaand is a slug fit in?
A. – See thats what I don’t agree with, the way that team clicked was a one off, it’d be much easier to replace Hleb, then it would be to create such a system that would compliment him again, with the players we have and can afford.
We were crippled once Rosicky got injured, when Van Persie got injured, it was almost sytematic in it’s demise. Hleb was under-rated, but not as much as he was fantasised about once he’d left.
We need a machine that makes players younger. Bring back Henry, Pires, and Campbell. ;P
A
When was the last time a Team won the title with a really shit keeper?
Pat
I think all the Players that are leaving are the Players Wenger wants to leave. Toure, Eboue and probably Senderos will go with a couple out on loan.
I guess the wankers are saying were a selling Club with no money though. Nothing new there then.
That doesn’t make any sense though el tel. People don’t come out with “he played in the dutch league” because anyone thinks that playing in the dutch league means you’re shit!!
It’s the opposite, if you’re a quality player you’ll do well in the Dutch league, but doing well in the Dutch league doesn’t mean you’re a quality player.
The point is his goalscoring stats mean nothing because players who have completely failed in recent years in the prem, like kezman and alves, had superior goalscoring records to Huntelaar
And Vieira and The King DB10
Also while I’m at it, Senderos has shedloads to prove along with Bendtner, I don’t get why people are sOo uneven with their praise of specific players in comparison with their derision of others.
I’d have to disagree Keyser, imo it was nigh on impossible to replace Hleb in that system, there are very few players in the world who could replicate what Hleb gave to it.
I agree though it was a one off, and we couldn’t create a system he’d work in again, i’d never have him back at the club.
We weren’t crippled at any point, we needed all the four midfielders to be at 100%, but we still functioned at 3/4 power with any of the others missing but Hleb still in the side, with Hleb out though we just couldn’t function in the same way, he was absolutely integral to that system, whereas the others just made it work better
el tel imo Van De Sar was a shit keeper last year, he was just ridiculously well protected by a very solid defence and midfield in front of him.
I’d have Almunia over Van De Sar any day.
But for all the Kezman and Alves who probably chose the wrong Teams there has been Van Basten, DB10,Gullit,Horse Face,RVP,Robben,Overmars,Kanu,The real Ronaldo,Cruyff,Neeskens, etc etc.
What I mean is there are those who dismiss the Dutch League but it produces far more quality over the years than our League. IMO
The Hunter did score goals in the few games he played at Real and he bangs them in for Holland.
He bangs them in for holland el tel, but his stint at madrid failed when you actually look at it closer, although 8 in 13 starts 7 subs looks impressive he was actually pretty poor there.
People dismiss the dutch league because succeeding there doesn’t mean you’ll succeed elsewhere, just because great players have played there doesn’t mean every player in the league is great!!
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I hear your opinion regarding Van Der Sar but apart from Cech he is way above any others in the Prem at this moment.
I don’t rate Almunia above Schwarzer personally and only slightly better than Robinson.
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I am going to do some work as I never said every player in the Dutch League is great.
You said earlier The Hunter wouldn’t work for us because he did it in the Dutch League as if that isn’t important, he isn’t just any old player he is a Dutch international with fantastic stats, Eduardo had great stats and played in Croatia and he doesn’t do to bad now.
Real have been unstable for a few years now and Ruel wouldn’t get dropped for anyone.
I would hate to see our rivals get The Hunter and see him scoring goals for fun. If he was abroad it wouldn’t worry me though.
A. – Nigh on impossible ? heh, yeah if you want someone that does everything exactly the same as what he gave us but they’d be several players that could give us a slightly variant but even more productive result, obviously being at the top end of World football this is harder to negotiate.
We couldn’t function in the same way, without finding someone that would provide the nifty footwork, but you could still be productive, even 3/4′s so.
Hleb’s limitations mean’t we could only work at 3/4′s of the power because he wasn’t good enough to compensate or vary his game and which is why I have a problem wth people over-rating him.
I think you could work a similar system with the sort of midfield we had in the Carling Cup or Youth Teams, but even there you’ve got more rounded players.
el tel, Van der Sar was really shit this past season. Worse decisons than Almunia, awful on corners, and not that many shots to save overall.
Not to mention that goal Eto’o scored against him. #1 rule of thumb: Keeper cannot, absolutely cannot, be beaten at his near post.
Van de Sar is not better than most in the league, imo I’d have Freidel, Green, Given, Almunia, Cesc, Reina, Howard, James, Gordon, or Gomes ahead of him! He really isn’t a great keeper anymore. Cech isn’t great either anymore, none of the top 4 have great keepers currently, Reina is the best imo but far from great.
el tel that’s the point – doing it in the dutch league isn’t important, it’s an irrelevance!!!!
I never said that scoring goals in the Dutch league means someone isn’t very good, that would just be ridiculous.
It’s just a fact that doing it in the Dutch League, doesn’t mean that a player is going to do it elsewhere, like in the Prem. You don’t have to be a great player to score shitloads of goals in the Dutch League, but it doesn’t mean that if you’ve scored shitloads of goals in the Dutch League you can’t be a great player!
Players are judged on their playing ability, which is why you can’t say “x has a great goalscoring record” as a reason they’ll be great, because that alone in the dutch league means absolutely nothing!
A, I never knew Cesc was a keeper. lol
The PL doesn’t ahve any good keepers tbh. Casillas, Buffon, Frey are the best experienced ones.
The best up and coming are probably Neaur(spelling), Pele, Akinfeev(a bit older), and the u-21 Spanish keeper Asenjo or whatever his name is.
Yeah I agree Keyser, with Arshavin in rather than Hleb I expect the team to be more successful, but it requires a period of adaptation. It took a couple of years for the system with Hleb in it to evolve into the one which nearly won us the title. When he left we had to adapt, and that took time. We’re now developing a superb system that Hleb wouldn’t be anywhere near as effective in.
Teams take time to adapt to different systems, so with Hleb in that system, he was close to irreplaceable, although a different system can and has evolved since he left, you couldn’t just put a different player in Hleb’s position, and be more effective, it would and has had to take time for everyone else to understand the differentiations in their roles and responsibilities.
I never said Hleb was a great player individually, but he was absolutely pivotal to a great system, and without him it could never have worked in the same way. He was an absolutely massive loss last summer, and it set us back 12 months, but hopefully now with this new system we’ll be much stronger than we ever could have been relying on him.
Ha Pat I meant to write Cech, not sure how that came out as Cesc!!
I agree, there really aren’t any top keepers in the Prem, Cech was until his injury, but he’s been very dodgy ever since. We’ve noone in the same league as Buffon and Casillas, and no top young keepers coming through really. Fabianski will become a great though if we all believe!
‘I am Arsenal through and through. I’d never advise anyone to sign for Tottenham. Patrick Vieira is a grown man who will do whatever he has to do for his own career. But I have never advised anyone about their future because it’s not my business.’
‘I can’t have Arsenal fans thinking I am helping Tottenham in any way. The truth is I was talking to Spurs boss Harry Redknapp and he told me he was trying to sign Patrick from Inter Milan. I was very surprised because Patrick is like me. He loves Arsenal.’
‘I just said that Patrick would be a brilliant signing. But I also made it clear I would be shocked if it happened.’
Nicely said Thierry
A. – I think you’re going for the same thing I’m trying to get at, but maybe I find it difficult to explain, sorry heh, spent long enough with Paulinho amongst the tit for tat banter of course.
For me Hleb is a niche player, there’s other players who could tailor their game to give what Hleb gave, maybe not with the same control, but could be even more efficient, though with someone like Pires or Arshavin you just wouldn’t want them to do that because they give more as a player.
Like you say with this new system, Hleb wouldn’t be as effective, but thats why I don’t agree with the power thing, Hleb’s limitations in that system mean’t there was axtra pressure on those players to not only learn his game and for us to accomdate him, but to make up for his shortcomings.
The adaptation thing happens with everything, it’s why Wenger’s tried so hard to keep the youth teams and Carling Cup teams together.
Lehmann
Sagna Gallas Verm CLichy
Hleb FLamini Cesc
RVP Eduardo/Nik Arshavin
Rosicky, nasri, Theo on the bench
Now thats a deep attacking lineup.
Shay Given, Robert Green.
I still think inter and Brazill’s Julio Caeser is better than Buffon. Its a toss up between casillas and Caesar for me.
I agree with that to an extent Keyser, but not entirely. Regarding the other players having to make up for Hleb’s limitations, I’d say it was the opposite. Because Hleb’s shortcomings meant that his game was tailored in a very specific way, he helped Cesc to be better than he could have been playing with anyone else in that role. Other well rounded player vary their game, but Hleb’s entire game was designed for the good of the team, and the good of every player around him, which is why his importance was very underrated imo.
He was never going to get the plaudits because his game was designed to make everyone else look, and be better, and he could do that like no other….
I missed something – where have lehann and flamini come from Pat?!
I’d have to disagree luke, cesar is a good keeper, but Casillas is just in a league of his own. Buffon used to be at a similar level, but noone else has touched the level those two have been at over the last decade. Dunno about Buffon now though.
Luke is right. Julio Cesar is arguably the best keeper atm. His italian trophies and brazils improved defensive record back that up imo. He is a real class act.
Casillas is world class also but he has made a few mistakes as of late. Poor handling, beaten easily sometimes. Not better than Cesar right now imo.
As for our keeper. He is aight. I dont like him an would prefer that we replaced him. I know he is just a stop gap until Fabianski steps up but i think we should be looking for much better…even if it is only temporary.
A. – See, that’s the crux of the argument really, for me, yeah, he sat back and orchestrated certain elements of our style, but I don’t think it was some sort of martyr role on his part, I think he was more than happy to do that because he was within his comfort zone.
I say that because of the many times he worked himself into positions where he could take the ball on himself and shoot and he shied away from it, watch his erlier youtube videos and he attempts shots, runs into the box and so on, he did less of that for us because he didn’t fully believe in himself enough or wsn’t willing to push himself, thats where the pressure thing comes in.
Thats the only thing that annoyed me about him, yeah he was under-rated by almost everyone at first, but now he’s gone I don’t think he was this great player either, though with specific attributes that were great.
A, I was just comparing if we kept a few players
Julio Cesar Hails Inter’s New Arrivals Eto’o & ‘The Other Player’
“I am very happy with the purchase of Samuel Eto’o, as he is definitely a proven player and a great striker,” Julio Cesar affirmed to Mediaset.
Following this opening comment, the shot-stopper was immediately questioned about Hleb; however, the 29-year-old looked stumped when the name of the other signing was revealed to him.
Unable to recall his new team-mate’s name, Cesar added, “I am confident that with the arrival of Eto’o and…the other player, we will be even stronger this season.”
Poor Hleb
Keyser I don’t think it had anything to do with a martyr role, nor his being in a comfort zone. Things just clicked in a certain way, partly because Wenger designed a system that utilised Hleb in the best way possible, and I’m sure part of the chemistry between Cesc, Rosicky, and Hleb just happened naturally. Nothing to do with a lack of confidence, but just a system where Hleb’s responsibilities were such that he had very specific roles.
Ah ok Pat, i was confused for a second!
Anyways, way past my bedtime, night people, been a pleasure discussing things other than just trying to explain to people why not everyone and everything connected to the club is/are shit/dicks etc etc etc
that’s it, wenger’s gone and sold Kolo Toure, Mr Arsenal. another bagful of experience, grit and heart gone.
who do we have now? gallas – the crybaby, vermalaen – woeful in the pre season games, song – wenger’s lovechild, senderos – someone we were euphoric to loan off to the previous season, djourou – unproven to say the least, silvestre – enough said.
you may say what you want but toure was our most committed, consistent and experienced player. part of the invincibles!
i am under no illusions that there will be anymore signings. once again, our team is good enough. yes good enough for 5th place.
thank you, mr wenger for relegating us to europa league football.
lol ex-gooner, i don’t get why people need to exaggerate how bad things are by writing things like “vermalaen – woeful in the pre season games”. Either a case of exaggerating to try and make out things are worth than they are, which anyone with half a brain would see through, or genuinly believing that, which illustrates an incredible lack of knowledge about football!
Vermaelen played well today, but you simply can’t judge people on pre season games anyways!
I want toure to stay, but if he goes it’s as much to do with his wanting to go as it is wenger being willing to let him go.
It’s also ridiculous to make out he’s the most consistent defender, when he’s as inconsistent as our most inconsistent defenders.
I Do Not think toure will be sold,
All this rurmours are becos of This DailyMail which is just un-reliable.
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Seemingly Toure never looks like he will be better after this. He doesnt seem to thrive on competition as some players have the ability to. Maybe getting picked up alongside Sol Campbell has had hi effects.
As much as I love Toure, I would hate him losing to City if (and a big if) the money that we get is used to make signings in other areas of the pitch.
Like I said yesterday, Huntelaar, Hangeland, Inler would do really nicely. And more so coz I think we have got the money to make these signings.
i have to say that senderos looked exceedingly good there.. maybe he could be our DM.. he reads the game well, he is good on the ball, can head the ball, is a big lump and will give us a physical presence.. the only con is that if he partners cesc our midfield will officially be the slowest in the prem….
SENDEROS FOR DM !!!!
bendtner looked great out there today…
We should only sell Toure if we’re gonna imrpove the squad with ready players (Huntelaar/Hangeland).
No wonderkids etc!!
WHAT A LEGEND thierry henry is
he would rather retire then play for yids
i thought patrick was the same
Morning all.
Rohan – Come on mate, you honestly think the answer to our DM could be Senderos? Really? Have a long and hard think about what he would actually be like in the middle of the park. He is to slow physically, he is too slow mentally, his passing isn’t that good, he has no technical ability whatsoever and as you said is slow. I wouldn’t have him at our club as a CB let alone at DM!!
This is another indicator of too many fans settling for far less than thy should. When we have had some of the best footballers in the world at our club like Vieira, Petit & Gilberto are people then willing to let a cart horse like Senderos destroy the heart of our team?
Arsenal legend Dennis Bergkamp has told Andrey Arshavin not to rest on his laurels.
“Arshavin has every chance of becoming a favourite of the London fans,” the former Holland striker said. “Arsenal found the kind of player they have been lacking.
“I hope Andrey will not rest on his laurels and will to continue to work to a higher level. Then he will become part of Arsenal’s history.
“The advice is simple but important for any player who moves to the Premier League: give everything, fight all through the game – those are the qualities that the fans fall in love with. In England it’s not enough to be a talented player.”
Morning, morning!
I’m sure Patrick is the same.
I read somewhere Lyon were in for him too.
He knows better than to be a spud!!
senderos for dm???
roflmao…
i was just too sleepy to think right taig… i just like the guy.. but i am pretty sure that he is nto the answer. ( or is he ?? )
he can’t be much worse than denilsong of diaby cna he ?
Kumanye?
fine and u iceman?
Rohan – I am not the biggest fan of either Song or Denilson but both would be infinitely better than Senderos at DM and Song is far off being at better CB too. But that’s a debate that is not worth going into like what tastes better – cat poo or dog poo!
Bien
If we’re so sad about Toure leaving…why not make him our DM…si?
yep but how good were bendtner and eddie yesterday both individually and as a partnership.. theo is going to ahve a tough time if he is ever going to make it as a striker…
nikkiB has come on in leaps and bounds in the last year or so… his second goal was absolutely class…
he very well might be our top scorer.. maybe if he improved his play as a target man such that he could play up front by himself he would be our most complete striker… his finishing has been improving gradually too i think…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1202542/Brave-ex-Celtic-striker-John-Hartson-making-good-progress-cancer-treatment.html?ITO=1490
Yes but I still want Huntelaar!!!!
If kolo leaves and we buy nothing than I am really pissed. He is a legend and I thought that he finish here. But wenger is completely lost it. Why let you this player go??? The only reason can be, the signing of hangeland! And I think that hangeland will be an arsenal player soon. But if no one signs I don’t trust arsenal this season! But I think we will see a DM and a CB in.