Groundhog Day...
Morning Grovers! Oh, and happy new year from Pedro and Geoff our first joined at the hip post, we feel we need to do this because our Emperor has lost his clothes and his boss has lost his marbles.
Peter Hill-Wood, our bumbling Chairman has been talking with the Daily Star again (You would think a club as big as Arsenal would use a paper more serious than a morning wank rag to leak stories), and the news is familiar in an almost Ground Hog Day kind of way,
‘I don’t think there is a lot of money anywhere’
‘One has got to look ahead – in the future there is probably not going to be much more money coming in’
‘We have got money, but I am not sure we are going to spend it. We’ve got to continue to run the business in a sensible way’
‘It may sound boring, but we are not going to rush out and spend fortunes on people who won’t help us achieve anything better than where we are at the moment’
‘Arsene has a lot of young, talented players at the club and I think he will probably give a chance to one or two of them’
Peter, we all understand global economics and the problems you are facing at the moment, but we haven’t seen anything other than prudent spending in the transfer market in the last 5 years. If you were so keen on being prudent, how come our wage bill topped £100million last year?
If we continue with this talented youngsters theme we will not qualify for the Champions league and people will not renew their boxes or season tickets. What you fail to understand is that we’re all fed up with the experiment, when will you all see it won’t work? What supporters want is to see new and exciting players bought, like the Bergkamp’s, the Pires’s, the Henry’s the Charlie Nicholas’s, that is what football is all about, when Beckham signed for Milan the crowds turned out, when Ronaldo signed for Madrid the same thing happened, fans want to see stars, not players like Alexandre Song, you need to wake up, because the new young crop of supporters won’t come to Arsenal because their dads do, they’ll go to teams that have ambition, the only ambition Arsenal seem to have is to pay off the mortgage double quick.
You aren’t being prudent, you’re being naive, if you were being prudent you wouldn’t pay the kids over the odds wages or charge us a fortune to get in, you will lose support, we don’t even play attractive football any more, the last three games have been like the old Arsenal of the early 80′s so wake up before you kill the Goose that lays the golden egg.
If you and Wenger don’t think there are players out there than can improve this team you both need to think hard about your positions, you are killing this club with your misguided rhetoric.
Act before we lose all that has been built up, because if you don’t, you’ll firstly lose the fans and secondly lose the decent players we do have because make no mistake, they want to win trophies as much as we do.
You have less than a month, don’t be a prat.
Hi avenell,
Our wage bill is ridiculous though considering the quality of players we have don’t you think?
Rasputin… if we were severely in the shit and couldn’t afford £16million a season firstly you’d have to ask what the hell have the directors done that makes us worse off than we were at highbury… I mean how can you have no money to spend when you earn £3million a game?
Also… if we were so deep in the shit, we couldn’t keep up with Villa… why would Usmanov be interested still? Why would Kroenke be on the board? They would rather not invest their own cash to make the teams successful… that is why they want to buy a club that will generate massive profits and will support itself.
And also considering that in 04 our wage bill was about 60m. That doesnt make any sense either.
Avenell, £93million in cash reserves… £40million profit after our repayments. No dividends paid.
We’re paying world class wages to players that are no where near world class. Wengers scouting network is no better than anyone’s else… it’s just our salaries are.
I’m with you on this Pedro – I’m just trying to understand the opposing view. I can see why conspiracy theories abound because it just doesn’t seem to make sense. If the level of ‘financial prudence’ is as vital as some are saying, we can expect half the prem clubs to go out of business this year!
Pedro – I don’t get where you’ve taken this, we’re working within a budget that is defined by what we as a club earn, teams like Villa or Chelsea aren’t and United and Liverpool are massive clubs. I wouldn’t say we are ahead of them, thats 60,000 that turned out for games, buy merchandise and the size of United as a club back then, not to mention winners of the Champions League and with a grasp that reaches to the far East.
If we don’t get outside investment we’re going to have to work within that budget and it has to adjust to the limitations that clubs around us have imposed. We’ve been at the Emirates for 2 years and the profits we earn won’t really tell until we’ve paid off the debt.
I’m not saying don’t spend, but we don’t just need players we need ones that will make the difference, i’d say we need Henry, Vieira type signings for that sort of money, if we spend 30 million on players it’s doesn’t guarantee anything, so it has to be the right signings and we have to be careful, thats not hard to see.
If you think we can compete on a level footing right now, I think you’re wrong, we have to spend wisely.
rasputin
i would rather not think about that alot poeple strogling on just over grand a nmonth and these football players are getting one week what everget when reach 65 its pretty sick all for kicking a ball sick i can we plaease move the suject of wages to depressing
Ras .. yea I agree we have a high wage bill. but there is a confusion somewhere.
Is it players trainers medical staff scouts etc?
The youth policy don’t work, but every club is copying it.
This set of players that wenger is investing in have let him down.. imo
But it’s jan 2nd not feb 2nd..
give them a chance.
Yes ave, we have to wait until the end of the month and no-one is suggesting buying players that aren’t going to improve the squad – that is ridiculous.
If you look at the finances in purely business terms, we are not getting good value for money in relation to our wage bill however it is apportioned. Maybe the prudence wasn’t there when deciding how much to pay the current players. Ade’s pay rise had a knock on effect. I don’t know what the likes of Song or Eboue are earning, but I would be horrified if it was over £25k a week.
We have one of the most renound youth systems in england but only a select few even make more than a few first team appearances, with even less getting a good run. One could argue that Boro have a far more productive youth system.
Leon,
I know players wages are obscene when compared to most, but it is a market economy and we can’t do anything about it if we want quality players. It’s paying sub-standard players such money that is the crime.
But the longer Wenger waits to buy any player the longer it will be befroe said player settles into the team and even their new surroundings. If we only make a signing on the last day it would be mid feb at the earliest before they have settled in and we need them to be ready from the off.
Lucky spud bastards just got a pen…. 1 nil v Wigan, 60 minutes gone
Avenell, the youth policy is working… it is the first team policy that isn’t working.
Keyser, I don’t think Wenger touches the budget… not because he can’t, but because he is persisting with the kids.
I think it is as simple as that.
On the other hand.. If you was a player and Arsenal offered £10 mill for you.. If you wait 3 weeks ManC will double that. or not?
So you wait until the end of the window. then sign at the last..
Hi Guys! Long break since I last posted here. Have You got/know any transfer rumors?I don’t care how much reliable the source is. Yetserday someone on this blog wrote tha Gallas is off to Milan and we will make a Senderos + cash offer to bring Hangeland from Fulham. He said that we will bring also 2 new midfielders and both of them will be word class.Any true in this?Probably just a hoax.
On the subject of other peoples wages being factored into it… how much do you think medical staff earn? £80k a year at the max…! The wage bill outside players can’t be more than £5-6million… well, that is what I reckon.
Pedro our worst players were bought as teenagers (the midfield)..
Yeah, but on the whole, we import kids on a free and sell them for 500k – £3million. The youth factory makes a mint.
The first team policy has dipped… we don’t replace like for like and it is showing.
Wenger gets £4 million Ped.. plus someone said scouts earn over £1/2 mill each ..(not me)
Pedro – Well then I think you’re wrong, if we’ve got a budget of 30 million we have to make it tell, if we found another 11 million Henry that would be great, but if we were to replace like for like someone like Henry would cost 30 million, at 30 million it’s just not enough for us.
I would be amazed if the Scouts get paid that much, especially as it seems that they cant Identify an available CM that is better than Song.
Pedro I cannot argue there the pendulum has swung too much the other way.. that’s why I hoping this yankee guy and Arsene start to put it right from now on because it is now starting to cost us..
I also agree with Keyser re working within a budget. villa have a sugar daddy who is not constraining his spending by working within a self sustaining model at present. Sad fact is Man U are a bigger worldwide Brand than us. equally true is that their owners at present are not attempting to make the club self sufficient. They no at some point they can sell it for a profit as its Cache value will always be huge in the world. Chelsea have a man who has more money that Sense. Liverpool have spent big but have problems and are struggling to raise the money for a stadium. We are working within a limited budget. Its been obvious for seasons. Wenger knows that if he says we have no money will will lose both players who will worry about the future and fans. He has had to buy youth, he said this last year. stating that he had seen our financial limits and knew we could not compete with the big boys in the transfer stakes for the next five to ten years of so. So he had to find and nurture a group of young players. maybe they have not shone as he hoped they would but he cannot change direction now as the club I dont think could sustain it. His press conferences are as much for the players as they are for the fans. Hence the repeated mantra of maturity, focus, team spirtit etc. Hes not talking to us but to them through the media. I cannot say why the figures give an impression of a big bundle of cash sat in PHW back pocket but I for one do not believe its there. Any more than I believe Wenger when he says we can still win the prem. Expect signings of 10 million but not much more.
I wish for the Kaka’s of the world but will settle for something less at present. Maybe that makes me less of a fan, maybe not. I know though I am still far better of than at least 88 other clubs in the league and possible 90.
Keyser, you get £16million for Thierry Henry… you go out and make that £16million work somewhere else. It wasn’t just £16million either… it was £200k off the wage bill a week.
£10k a week for a scout? That seems a bit excessive Avenell? Where did you read that?
Pedro …. On your blog.. lol.
Dave T… Lerner bought the club for £60mill and that is the debt… he hasn’t been ploughing his personal fortune into it… the rest is made up from Villa’s earnings.
Plus, like I’ve said… we clearly don’t spend our budget do we? We have a positive number for the last 2 years… unless you are saying it’s been sell before you buy for the last 2 years?
Yeah Keyser but when you sell Henry for 16m, I dont think it would have been impossible to find a replacement, likewise the money that came in for Vieira. Ok you might not get the exact same standard of player but it should get you better options than we have. If we had worked at it, we could have got Etoo in exchange for Henry and you could probably have got Huntelaar for a similar fee. We didnt do a thing with Vieira!!!
What has not helped is the likes of Bergkamp, Pires and Ljungberg went either close to or at the end of their careers so we had nothing coming into replace them.
Again, I am not sure if people are missing our point, we usually at least break even every summer, we are not asking for 30m players especially as we know Wenger can pick out a 10m Henry.
Fact: Our squad is a shadow of what it was 4 years ago, yet every summer since we have broke even.
Fact: We are in decline
Fact: We have money
Fact: so what is wrong in us hoping and wanting Wenger to invest a little bit more by spending the available funds that are available to him to actually build a squad capable of challenging for the Premiership
Why is that so wrong to expect your manager to do that?
No fricking way Ave! From a blogger? Or an author?
Does a Squad investment of 30m make us fall outside of our self-sustaining model?
The term ‘invest’ implies an element of risk in the hope of a greater return. We need to invest in a couple of quality players in the hope that they will help us secure CL football next season – anything more than that would be an added bonus.
Everyone is saying the credit crunch is affecting Premier League clubs.Well.it isn’t damaging United. That just shows the difference between us and United. They are a serious club and we are a JOKE!THEY ARE 700 mln in debt?Well,that doesn’t stop them from buying,does it?3 mln per game from the Emirates, 50 mln from tv revenues and we still can’t afford any quality player.
No what someone was saying take the agent who bought the rights to Tevez and masherano.
Why would you scout for Arsenal when you can do it freelance and make more?
Also if scouts wern’t paid much, why did chelsea sack a load?
I don’t know the facts i’m mesenger boy…
How do you get a job as a Football Scout then? sounds like a perfect job,
Travel, Money and watching loads of Football
No Pedo no author mate.. chill I just said someone..
Pedro.. whoops..
Wayne Bridge has agreed to sign for citeh for £12m pending a medical. The chavs are going to have money to spend!
For all we know there was one a time when our scouts came back to Wenger with names of already established players but Wenger just slaped them and laughed, then told them he only wants young players that he can have a massive ingfluence on them himself.
Also do we have scouts in eery country or just the big countries because Eduardo aside we never seem to buy players from poorer league. NEVER!!
Transfers of that year include, Ribery, Torres, Ashley Young… Darren Bent
lol Pedo
I think I might apply to be the Scout in Barbados
I guess if you did scouting freelance, you’d be an agent?
Of what year?
The year we sold Thierry.
pattheGooner – A replacement for Henry ? You definetly wouldn’t have got another Henry, you would have got a replacement though and thats it, I doubt Huntelaar or Eto’o would have come in without more money or hefty wages and neither of them, maybe the potential accompanying Huntelaar, would have done the job of Henry either.
Like I said before compare like for like our squad of four years ago and the players we have out now, time hasn’t stood still and this is the point, 11 million got you Henry all those years ago, 30 million is almost nothing in todays game to teams like Chelsea but to us ? It’s our entire budget for a year.
I didn’t say it’s wrong Heh, just that he has to be careful with the money we do spend so it’s not that simple. We either look for significant short term investment or we wait be prudent with the money we have, buy the right players and wait for the likes of Vela, Ramsey, Wilshere to grow a little.
looking forward to seeing Simpson on loan.
I hope he has a good 6 months,
Oh and I’m still guessing that we have 30 million to spend in the first place.
I hope he keeps West Brom up at the expense of Spurs.
Hi all,
We signed Henry for £10.5m in 1999.
That was a lot of money then, let alone now.
How much would that be in todays climate? £20m or £30m??
Wenger’s spent money and big money. Henry proved that.
I think he is just determined to prove his “youth” project will work.
I accept that we will never spend £30m on a player, but what is obvious is money needs to be spent or we will fall further behind the likes of Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool.
I hope Simpson actually scores the goal that relegates Spurs, maybe on goal difference or something.
£30million was ManU’s budget as well.
The top 4 transfers of all time were made between 2000 and 2001.
In fact… in the last 4 years… only 3 transfers have broken into the top 15 of all time.
£30million has only ever been broken 9 times… that figure is a big deal.
Simpson was born in Tottenham..
All I am saying is we have not done enough to replace them
Bendtner, Song, Denilson, Diaby, Ade and RVP are perfect examples.
We could have done more, We could have got Etoo, it was rumoured that it could have been a straight swap. I didn’t say it was possible to get another Henry, but we didnt do enough. 5 defeats, poor football and potential UEFA cup football is the proof.
Sure I would love to be bagging Villa for 25m but we now know that we are limited. I think we can get 3 x 10m players and change the whole outlook of our season.
What I will say though is that I personally think we could have spent + 20m net on transfers each year for the last four years and not put the club at any risk. We may even have won something and maybe those players may have been a big enough draw to help pay for themselves in Merchandising. Yet now we find ourselves with a rumoured top limit of 30m and that as a fan frustrates me. We did not do enough. He had fucked it up and now needs to fix it.
There is being prudent and then there is being blinded by ego and stubborness.
Bergkamp was a british record fee for about 2 weeks..
Wrighty, it was peanuts back then… that was the year Inter paid £32mill for Vieri… a year later Madrid paid £46mill for a 29 year old Zidane.
Pedro, I didn’t realise that mate!
Just saw that Veron was signed for £18.1m that year and then 2 years later United paid out £28.1m for him.
pattheGooner – Eto’o said the only way he was going to leave was for a massive pay day, that would be the only way he’d go to the Premiership that his last deal should be massive.
You keep saying not enough was done but Henry was a player we got for 10 million, at his peak he was probably worth 6 times that, and thats it, we’re not going to get players of that quality for that price unless we look long and hard and it’s a lot harder now than ever before.
20m net is a lot of money, if Henry was paid 10 million in his last year, that’s half that just spent on keeping Henry at the club, I dont get how you think that it would be easy.
In 99 was 10.5 million peanuts for us ? How big a signing was Henry for Arsenal ?!
Most people have forgotten… but transfers went mental 98 onwards. Remember Gulitt and his massive spending spree? Chavski and pretty much every team in the Prem! It was mental and it has never really been repeated.
£10mill back then was fuck all… he was a massive risk and a flop at Juve.
Was that the same year that the Spanish goverment bought real madrids training ground off them for rather too much money for real estate . Then gave them another piece of land outside madrid to build a new one..
Not an even playing field…
Big Raddy, are you there
Now my Derby mate here in Oz has fond memories of Charlie George when he had the perm, especially when Charlie scored a hatrick in the European Cup Semi against Real Madrid @ the Baseball Ground. He was @ the game & loves to relive that night.
Are you sure it wasn’t you Raddy who hit the bottle
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0KJLrwfjZG4
Keyser…
£10.5mill Henry
£23mill Anelka
£32mill Vieri
Yeah, it was peanuts.
Avenell, it doesn’t change a thing.
Inter, Juve, Lazio and Barca are all in there.
It is a lot of money, but it would have earnt us a lot more too.
Pedro – I don’t get what you’re trying to say ? That the Henry signing was just on a whim, it was just us tossing a few quid on a long shot ?!
Transfer fees were coming down before abramovich.. It only takes one or two clubs and the market gets inflated.
Keyser, you’ve been saying that Henry was an expensive signing years ago… I am saying he wasn’t relative to what everyone else was spending.
If he was available in the same situation today… he’d probably be the same price… maybe less.
You are asking if he he was peanuts in 99… I am saying yes he was… he represented half the outlay Madrid paid for Anelka.
Avenell, that is why I said I don’t think we’ll ever see the £100million player…
If Wenger believes that £15m for Nasri was a fair price, he must accept that he has to pay that much or more each for a couple of quality midfielders.
Pedro what if Man C and Real go head to head on Ronaldo or Messi?
No way… why would you pay that? Wait a year and get him on a webster.
£100million doesn’t make sense, you could never make your money back on that cost.
1975, was that the year that The Arsenal spent most of the season last & only just avoided relegation. Got rid of its star & look what happened. Shit it really could be groundhog day.
Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Buy Wenger.
If you believe the reports, AW has been interested in most of the great players recently (Ronaldo and Ronaldinho to name but two). Had he secured those signings, he would have been able to make a massive profit for the club. He has signed some fantastic players, but he has also missed out on plenty as well. I hate to say it again, but he seemed to have greater success securing his targets when DD was alongside him.
……or By By By By By By By By By By By By By By By Wenger
But the oil shakers and the spanish goverment don’t need get money back, it’s principle.
They are making a statement, that’s how madrid have run..
Pedro – He wasn’t peanuts for Arsenal he was a record signing ? and thats it, while we break record fees for Arsenal, that record wasn’t much in English football let alone World football, but the value we got for that 11 million was substantial.
Its always been known that Wenger has worked off a shoestring but would any other manager have accepted that situation? Most other managers would have either demanded some good money to spend on quality players or have left ages ago. Its just that Wenger thinks he can win titles without spending money. Its just not possible anymore.
Real Madrid, both Milans, Barcelona & Juve have been the blight on football for years. They are the reason for high transfer fees/player wages, coruption in football, etc. Now that the English teams have gone past them, Blatter /Plattini now reckon there is a problem. It wasn’t a problem for 20 years while the wog clubs went about their whoring ways but now “its a problem”.
Well there is one thing that Blatter, etc can never change or corrupt. The game was invented in England. Football is, in essence, an English game.
At the moment our squad is too big to keep buying players. We’re not short on quantity but majorily short on quality. Our wage bill is high and a few players will rock the boat if he buys more players.
Wenger will have to admit defeat and sell off a few of his golden childs to accomodate a few choice acquisitions. He doesn’t want to do that so we’re left with this ridiculous tedious period of brinkmanship where Wenger tries to defy the logic in front of him and tout this squad as ‘tremendous’ and of ‘great quality’.
Eventually he’ll swallow his pride – he’ll have no choice soon – and sell a a few, like he did with Senderos, and we’ll all say ‘why the hell didn’t you do that two years ago?’.
This youth experiment is a big waste of time and will be viewed as such in five-ten years time. Wenger thinks it will looked back on with awe and seen as a great time however I think he’s wrong. The overriding sentiment will be, why couldn’t he have been a more pragmatic? The answer will be that his head got lost up his own backside.
Keyser… it doesn’t matter that it was Arsenal’s record transfer does it? We had £23mill in the bank and we spent £10.5… that’s not a substantial outlay is it?
Sure we got great value out of the £10.5mill… but we’re not getting value out of our current crop of players. Arsene is still trying the same tricks and he’s not getting lucky anymore… that is why he needs to spend his budget on good players, and make them great. Instead of taking average player and making them good.]
Spend the budget… that is all we are asking.
Paulinho.. Why is it as clean cut as defeat?
Why can’t he adjust it?
Paulinho, I disagree that the squad it too big.
We are playing right backs in left midfield, centre mids out wide and strikers out wide… we are woefully short.
Pedro – What have I said thats different ? All I’ve said is that it needs to be spent wisely, the kids will take a few years and without investment the signings we make right now have to count.
It does matter it was Arsenals record transfer, we had to sell players to accomdate him and the other half of the Anelka fee was used to fund the Academy ?!
I don’t get you’re point, we sold Anelka first before we could spend money on Henry while the teams around us just went out and spent 32m on players without thinking too much about it, or twice what the whole of Anelka cost on players like Zidane and Figo.
Anelka = best training facility in europe..
We could sell it and rent it back!
The best training facility in europe is not exactly producing the best players in europe at the moment, but good point ave
avenell – We could sell it and buy Anelka back..
Avenell, he talks himself into a situation where he is set to address certain issues, but then he talks himself out of it. It’s laughable. At the end of last season he comes out with what we’ve all been talking about in terms of aerial balls and the pressure game but then does f-all about it, and puts that clown Denilson in alongside Fabregas.
It’s like if he publicly admits the failings of our team to the fans then that’s okay – that allows him to carry on his merry way.
He always exaggerates arguments to justify his policy and then goes back to the standard rhetoric to the buttress it. Same old formula he’s used for the last three years. He also tries to keep quiet our huge wage bill is it doesn’t quite fit into the image he likes to portray. Fact is, he’s been paying big wages to crap players. Doesn’t look good.
gday all, anyone know if our game is telecast anywhere tonight?
Pedro, we’ve got Vela, Bendtner, Adebayor, RVP up front.
Denilson, Song, Fabregas, Diaby for central midfield.
Nasri, Vela, Walcott, Eboue, Wilshere, Ramsay for wing and central positions as well.
We’ve got Djourou, Gallas, Toure, Silvestre, Clichy, Sagna, Eboue for defensive positions.
Fabianski and Almunia for GK.
Think about those positions and what will happen if we buy a few players and think about our wage bill. Wenger will have a couple of unhappy players if he brings in the players we want and a very large wage bill. That scenario is ike kryptonite to Wenger. Doesn’t want to betray his big contract golden childs.
So where does the defeat bit come in then??
Is it a huge wage bill for a 3rd 4th spot club with loads of assets .
I don’t know I listen to all sides. I just don’t see how a fan can make such a sweeping judgement as Wengers policy needs defeating or is defeated if we are not told the facts.
Pedro, there is one for a one or more but after that it gets overcrowded. I think we need at least four players to have a side capable of winning a league.
Wenger needs to sell a couple of the players. That protracted process will take god knows how many years.
paulinho.. we could at least sell 5 players on there and bring in about 2 or 3
Avenell, admit defeat that the likes of Denilson, Song, Diaby aren’t good enough at the moment and will not be for a considerable length of time….. time we really don’t have.
This goes hand in hand with the pragmatism bit.
Well, we have time if Wenger and the club is willing to accept the UEFA cup.
These next few years are going to be very dicey, especially if Wenger keeps faith with the same squad even if we don’t quality for the champions league.
Keyser, when has anyone asked the club to spend recklessly and buy bad players? That is the sort of thing Wenger says…’I'm not going to buy a £40mill player’… well who asked you to? No one… like Paulinho said… he is just exaggerating the point to make buying players seem a stupid idea.
Avenell… it doesn’t matter how much the training facility was… Henry didn’t represent a massive outlay… we spent a little on a replacement so we could buy a great training facility.
Henry was still a bargain and relatively cheap for the time…
so if ramsey and whiltshere come into the squad for the injuries, i wonder who will make then bench tonight? bitchslap? merida? coq eu vin?
Pedro – Wait, What ? You’re doing just the same by going in the opposite direction with that, I’m saying we have to spend wisely on the right players, what have I said wrong ?!
If we’re going to try and find like for like than thats not happening, it’s just not, we found Henry as a bargain, we’re not going to out and spend 11 million on an Henry replacement and get someone that is comparative. It’s even harder in today’s game, thats why you get the players at an even younger age.
We’ve got to the position we’re in because we’ve spent wisely.
Pedro…. Agree on Henry mate no probs..
Paulinho.. Should Wengers whole youth policy means he should admit defeat?
Or just adjust it.. Song , Denilson, Diaby not being good good enough at the moment doesn’t mean Wenger should admit defeat on the whole youth policy..
Which is is what I thought you said…
He spent 12 million on Nasri and 6 mill on Sagna, both players who would have to adjust to English football and could have failed, how is spending 12-14million on Arteta, or $6-8million on Parker going against the way he’s been signing players, they’re less of a gamble than both Nasri and Sagna, sorry if this point has been made already
Keyser… You ask so many questions you know the answer to, the debate loses track because of the open ended nature of them.
You said spending Villa type money was not feasible unless you had outside investment.
I said that we wouldn’t need outside investment to do that, as we already earn way more. I would suspect £20mill a season is well within budget for us and I believe we should be spending that, especially considering our losses.
Replacing Henry was impossible… but buying a player capable was not. Even buying a wide man capable of giving us the same spark as Henry would have been acceptable, as we never replaced Pires.
We did neither… not even close. Song is never going to be anywhere near the level of Gilberto, Paddy, Flamini or Edu… others on the market might have been.
We need to replace great talent, with potentially great talent…
Anelka was a great talent… and his replacement Henry was also a great talent. Gilberto was a great player… Song has never been and never will be a great player.
On that terrific note, I am off to Bedfordshire.
Till tomorrow!
Pedro – Heh, Sorry, maybe it’s the same as you feel when you hear a quote from Wenger or Peter-Hill-Wood, because all this talk poses even more questions then we have the answers to.
It can go in any number of ways, you’ve used examples of spending from different times, and while it may only be several years ago, the cicumstances are different, Vieri’s transfer was in the Italian league, Zidane the Spanish, why were the teams able to afford such transfers ? Why have they cut down on spending now ? Was that the peak of transfer activity throughout Europe ? The bubble burst ? and a thousand other questions. I’m not asking you to answer them but thats questions that crop up.
I just don’t think it’s that easy to compare different times, cicumstances and situations that vary for every club, player and season.
The Villa situation – The whole point is that they are not working to a specific budget or under the same constraints and this is only the team that is competing for 4th with us. Since Lernar can easily just dip into his pockets that bit further if he so chooses and at the moment he is doing so.
Look at who you’re comparing these players to Song ? We’ve bought Nasri, We’ve got Walcott for the other side, Rosicky however injured and the point is all these players are players Wenger has brought to the club, I think you’d hav trouble finding another Pires for the same price.
Times have changed, Anelka was bought for 500,000 and replaced by a player with much greater talent for 11 million, this is 10 years ago, if Wenger needs to adjust his sights, then so do we, we’re not going to see the same sort of player for prices that we can afford, it’s a balancing act right now.
I wonder if i will feel even worse than the summer transfer window when we dont buy anybody this time.?
i think right now if we dont buy anybody we know that somebody is defintely lying… i feel so cheated, my girlfriend spent close to £300 quid gettin me an arsenal trip where i get a tour of the emirates and stay in a hotel and watch the match but i feel so sickened by the crap we are told every day I’m questioning why they should get her money
You have the choice… there is no arm up your back..
I went from 1978″ to 1991″ without missing many home games 1x Fa cup, 2x div 1′s and a mickey mouse.. you take your chances. It’s sport!!!
Guy,
On your tour of the emirates look for the managers office and leae a disheartened letter on his desk. Hope he reads it and replies to you explaining why the club is fast becoming a joke, such a shambloic piece of work but the bastards at board level. Hopefully he will reveal who is lying to us and why. Also hope he will either rectify the trouble here or give everyone a refund and apologise for everything that has upset and annoyed damn near every sighted Arsenal fan.
Even Arsenal fans who have to google Stephan Hughes lol…
Just read the initial blog. Very true. I could only purchase a club level ticket (can’t get a regular season ticket). I for one will definately not renew next year. 1. Because like PHW the crunch is affecting my business and more importantly 2. At the moment I can think of better things to spend £2600 on than watching Song, Eboue and Denilson. It’s sad to say this, but it really doesn’t make any sense to scrimp and save to watch players that are inferior and less exciting than watching fucking paint. Great however if you like watching sideways football. That I’m sure we would win at a canter!
Haha very funny!
Laugh it up Ave. Thats the one and only time i will slip up.
Not really there is a serious side to that ..
???
Whats the serious part then?
stu i wish i could do that, ive only ever been to hghbury and that was on a tour, so this will be my first time at the emirates… shame im goin to spoil it by staging a one man protest
anyway bed now work at 9am
we wont sign anybody in this window by the way Wenger has been speaking to the press.
Just read this article on Arshavin. Good read about his play, strenghts etc.
http://www.arsenalnewsreview.co.uk/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=1160&cntnt01returnid=42
There is a link at the bottom too but havent read that myself as of yet.
i’d be shocked if we signed arshavin but you never know. The things wenger has been saying has made me think he’s a possibility. I would have thought bit too much of a risk but what do i know?!
Lets just hope he does buy him because otherwise we will only create a handful of chances per match and score even less. We have absolutely no creativity anymore and we wont get 4th unless we win matches. No goals = no wins.
I dunno about that stu, vp and nasri can create chances, but i agree we do massively need another attacking mid, just unsure as to whether arshavin in the answer. He’s done fantastically at zenit, and with russia recently, but there are a couple of lingering doubts for me.
Firstly whether he’d adapt to the premiership, players from eastern europe don’t have the best of previous when it comes to that, and it’s a big change from russia to the prem, as well as the fact he’s never even played for another club let alone in another league, and he’s 27 already!
Secondly the timing of the russian league. He’s finished his season, so he’s either going to be absolutely knackered if he came to us, and far from sharp straight away, or he will have had a break since the end of the russian season, but the equivalent of then coming to a team having had absolutely no pre season, so again would be likely to be far from sharp straight away.
There are also doubts about his consistency and such like, has amazing games but then goes missing.
If he was able to replicate his form when fantastic for zenit and russia with us he could win us the league, if he can’t he could be a very expensive flop!
I’d much rather get in elano, just because he already knows the prem
This is just my opinion, not a transfer suggestion because I know Wenger would never go for it. But i think we should consider Pogrebnyak of Zenit. Now i realise that Zenit want over the odds for Arshavin and if we do get him for a good price then I will be delighted because he is a real talent who can do wonders for us.
I mention Pogrebnyak because of his versatility, not positionally but in terms of ability. He is a proper CF but has amazing technique. Still only 25 he has a lot more years in him. He is 6’2, has good off the ball movement and can score with either foot or his head. Pkus he is a powerhouse. Even though he can play most of his goals come from inside the box which suggests he doesnt join in with play too much.
If Arsenal played a different game then imo he would be a great buy but knowing Wenger he will never buy someone like him. Also i feel that there are a lot of quality players in those league like Russia. Is just a matter of Wenger seriously looking there. He found Eduardo is a smaller league and if not for his injury could have been instrumental in winning a title.
in my opinion stu forwards are literally the only position we 100% don’t need to sign anyone! Unless we could get big money for ade, and get in someone as amazing as benzeama or villa, we couldn’t do much. Vela and Bendtner are very raw but incredibly talented forwards who will develop into two of the best in europe, vp already is one of the best in europe, eduardo is a sensational finisher, and theo will ultimately play through the centre and be incredible there too. The likes of Villa, Benzema, Et’oo would be amazing obviously as they would anywhere, but anyone else i’d say no thanks.
pavlichenko was a league above pogrebnyak in the russian league, and has hardly torn the prem apart…. I wouldn’t take him over anyone in our strikeforce, and especially not in january for exactly the same reasons as my doubts over arshavin, apart from pogrebnyak isn’t as good as the arsh
I see your point A and partly agree about his apparent poor consistency. But we only really saw him play like that for Russia. Can you honestly say that you watched or even knew of him pre the later stages of the Uefa Cup? Because I cant.
He only played 3 games for Russia and didnt show up against Spain, the eventual winners. I read that in Zenits Eufa cup campaign he scored 10 goals and created 11. That seems like a pretty consistent stat but on the other side of that coin it was European football and not a league run so that it also difficult to judge him on.
Regarding Elano: Last season he had an amazing start but after 2-3 months he faded away and didnt really do anything. Same this season. I know he hasnt played much but hasnt done anything when he has, so for me he is a no. I would much rather someone more consistent. Whether or not that is Arshavin or Arteta is impossible to tell.
A-Stu- You guys make more sense when its late at night, since its always you two that i’m likely to disagree with….
As much as Eto would be a great signing, i dont think we need another enormuse ego in the camp…
A, as i said just my opinion on who I like. And from what I heard- Pavlychenko was drafted into the Russian Euro team as a replacement for the injured Pogrebnyak.
RvP is undoubtedly exceptionally talented but lacks any kind of consistence. His best goals tally, which he is in the team to get, is about 15. Hardly the goals tally of a CL teams starman.
Ade just isnt a good enough individual imo. He was great last season in terms of goals but only scored so many because of the midfield. He will do for now but a club lie ours should be looking at players a level or 2 above Adebayor.
As for Vela and Bendtner- I agree with you on them and have very high hopes for them but neither are ready for the responsibilities of first choice striker in such a big team. But one day certainly. And Eduardo is obviously a great finisher but also goes missing for large parts of games, or at least used to.
RasDef, dont really get what you mean by that
I think the most important type of player we should get is a DMF that can cover cesc’s forward runs, that was what Flamini did and it worked out well… On the otherhand Denilson improved a lot so its debatable..
As for an AMF we have so many people injured is hard to justify why we would really need Ashavin…
No of course not stu, and i’ve always been impressed when i saw him, but just going on what people who have have said etc. He’d just be a big big risk.
Although elano hasn’t been as sensational for city as he was originally, he’s always looked very good when i’ve seen him, but just fallen out with hughes this season, and happy to let the likes of swp, robinho, and ireland tear teams apart, he’s just a willing worked almost. I personally really rate elano, whenever i’ve seen him either for city or brazil i’ve always thought he’d be fantastic at us, though maybe not as amazing as arshavin could possibly be, though it’s just more of a risk imo as anyone from outside the prem is. I’d rather him than arteta because he suits our style of play more, and arteta’s lack of pace would hamper him with us as he’d be about as quick out wide as denilson when put there!!
just joking mate
A, fair enough Arteta has no pace but if we were to buy Elano then where would he play? He plays attacking midfield for both Brazil and last season with City, both with no defensive responsibilities. If he came in to replace Cesc then that is CM and Elano is a pretty lazy defender (presumably) and if he were to play wide then he would pose the same problems as Arteta with a lack of pace. There is no way that Wenger would change formation for an incoming player. Never has and never will. Elano isnt fast enough to be put out wide and not defensive enough to play centrally in a 4-4-2.
No Problem RasDef!
lol rasdef it does seem to be that way, things are just more hectic during the day so what people write can be lost to misinterpretation i think!
Stu i don’t think either were first choice for russia, as it was kerzakov first choice, with arshavin behind him roaming around, or sychev in ahead of the two P’s, pav played a couple more times in qualifying i think but neither were regular starters. pav was just massive in the russian league though, top goalscorer all the time etc
i agree we need a dm rasdef, but flamini would be shocking this season, as bad if not worse than denilson! Hleb made our season last year, his departure killed our style of play, and has destroyed us defensively because we havn’t been able to keep possession as high up the pitch, and it was also hleb who brought cesc into play in advanced roles, denilson is no less defensive than flamini was, people forget how many attacking runs and positions flamini made! We need a proper dm, and some height and strength
Isnt Elano getting old too?
Anyway have a good evening to both of you. Im off…
he’d play out wide stu, same as whoever we bring in, roaming around centrally exactly the same as nasri/hleb etc etc. In brazil’s last game he actually played dm, and has played centre mid once or twice for city this year, but i don’t like him there at all! The way he’s linked up with robinho, swp, and ireland at times has made me think he’d be perfect with nasri, vp, cesc. Elano is actually quick and very athletic, that’s why i’d rather him over arteta
But A, in terms of a big, strong dm, can you think of anyone that fits that? Because i cant really, unless they are African- which poses even more potential problems.
Well i guess im just not a fan of Elano so. I’ve sem some of him this season and he hasnt been that impressive. I’ld rather someone else tbh.
A, you say Denilson is just as defensive as Flamini but i dont agree with that at all. Flamini may not have been the sitting type of DM but his evergy levels were amazing, he was great at putting players off and was very usually in the right place. Denilsons evergy levels are fairly low even if they are improving and he never follows his marker, ever. The amount of times he lets players waltz past him to score is shocking.
Also I would much rather a DM with good positional sense that a strong DM. Just a preference.
no i really can’t stu, but if we can’t find someone like that, then we don’t really need a dm, I’d actually rather song play if he can continue to improve! It’ll need to be someone wenger picks out of the blue. No problem if an african, no african nations until next year, and by then it could very well have been rescheduled so in the summer, and song/denilson/ramsey/coquelin will have come on by then so will be absolutely fine even if was a player to go off to the anc!
Incidentally, thought i’d do a bit of research about milwall fans’ opinion of jay simpson on their fans message board, as most milwallers i’ve come across think he’s pants, had one response – “Fuck know’s how he won League one player of the year last year. He was alright, nothing ‘out of this world’. He won’t make the Arsenal first team, you’ll fuck him off to some club like Norwich in two years time.
To be fair he was played out of position at times but he deffo ain’t gunna be the next Ian Wright. FACT.”
be interesting to see what other fans think tomorrow! That pretty much sums up everything i’ve been told about him and his time in the lower leagues though. Didn’t even get into the league 1 team of the year or win milwall’s player of the season i don’t think, apparently people thought it was a mistake when he got the player of the season award!
yeah i agree about flamini’s energy levels stu. They were absolutely incredible, he ran around like a madman kicking the opposition all day. However he wasn’t a natural dm, he couldn’t really tackle properly, however determined he was, and couldn’t read a game at all. Denilson is just a different style, gets so many interceptions and tackles by outsmarting players rather than running at them like a madman, both as effective as each other. I disagree about flamini’s positional sense and marking, he often lost his man, but his energy just meant he was usually doing something else. I don’t consider him a better marker than denilson, though he was more physical so could make up for his mistakes better i guess. Don’t think either are ultimately the answer as proper dms though
Was Jay in the Championship or league 1 last season. I always just presumed it was the championship. And i never heard anything about him last season. If he was so good then why didnt I hear anything about it?
btw, why are Millwall fans commentating on him?
no it was league 1 stu, he was on loan at milwall from us last season, and got the league 1 player of the season award
Neither of the 2 may be a DM or the answer to the probelms but it was still stupid to let him leave. Even if Flamini was just energetic he still had a great season in an amazing 4some. Neither of the two should have left but both should have been replaced with ease.
Hleb was great at holding onto the ball etc but easily replaced by a tricky winger and Flaminis running could be replaced even by a championship player. He=is best asset was easily his ground covering.
Ya thats right. How i forgot who he was on loan with I just dont know. Wierd!
i agree about flamini, but i don’t think hleb could be replaced easily, there are maybe 4 or 5 players who could have replaced him, nasri being one of them, and probably the only player available, and that’s only in the future. Hleb was imo one of the best in europe last year, ribery could have replaced him easily, he’s the only one i could think of who could have straight out
Alright maybe not easily replaced but not impossible either. There are a lot of players out there who could be just as effective. His ball retention was second to none but his lack of self productivity makes him replaceable imo. Its just a matter of finding the right player and paying the best price.
i dunno stu, i think that team and style of play had been 2 years building, and as you say his ball retention is second to none, there isn’t anyone we could have brought in to do hleb’s exact job, and as a result our style of play had to change and the team needed time to adapt. Though that would have been the case in the best of scenarios with everyone fit, adapting slightly but nasri rosicky cesc working similarish to hleb rosicky cesc. However the way our luck has gone this season we no longer have a style of play, or any players left, so it’s just a case of taking every game by itself and trying to win it however we can!
I supposeyour right but there was no guarentee that even with a fit Rosicky and Cesc that Nasri would have been able to fill that role, nor is it possible to predict how the team as a whole would have done without Flamini.
Noone is ding well this season and the full backs this season have been pretty poor compared to last season. Clichy has been making so many mistakes and Sagna has done nothing really. Both are effected by the loss of Flaminis covering and stamina. Likewise the CBs have no cover either. Denilson may be just as defensive minded as Flamini but is certainly not as cautious as Flamini. Add to that Denilsons being naiive and the defence has been left isolated far too often.
Anyway, its been a pleasure discussing different things with you. Have a good one, im off til tomorrow.
You know, even if we do beat Plymouth Argyle tonight I’m @ the point where my belief that we can go all the way is gone..
Its a sign of the times but i don’t believe anymore
In the old days you knew a bloke like Pires would do the Cup Job, but we don’t have that anymore. Some one plays a belter then is injured for 3 months
Big Raddy
Sorry if I compromised our relationship, but I’ve been a bit anxious about my daughters birthday party around the pool today, and the lead up weather has been absolutly English so the water is cold as.
We have had a shit Summer so far. & I mean shit, let me tell you.
Still the day went down OK ,so now I’m ready for some serious Football.
P.S I will always defend the man(Charlie) who got me hooked on The Arsenal
There are only 2 football teams that i would crawl across 2 kilometres of broken glass to see play a final:
1. is the Richmond Football Club (Australian), &
2. The Arsenal Football Club (English) I can’t explain it but I just love them.