I mentioned that one of the most respected magazines in the financial world, Forbes, wrote a four page center spread on the finances of Arsenal Football club, it also asked Usmanov and Kroenke to comment and both refused, so that added even more credibility to the story in my opinion.
A lot of toot is written about clubs and how rich they are, what defines riches, turnover (revenue) or income (profit)? here are a few facts about our finances, you make up your own mind.
During 2006/7 Arsenal match day revenue was $150 million against $82million in the last year at Highbury, that included tickets, merchandise, concessions and hospitality sales, that’s $6 million a game and $1 million a matchday more than Manchester United. Arsenal posted $77 million in operating profit, that’s earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. Against a turnover of $329 million.
That makes us the 4th richest club in the world in profitability behind Real who made $112 million, ManU ($111) and Barcelona ($92) but ranks us 3rd in value at $1200 million, behind ManU at $1,800 and Real at $1,285.
The estimated worth of Arsenal includes our current debt, so even our value will soon rocket, once the 724 luxury apartments are released that debt should fast disappear and we’ll be in the black, current estimates, the end of season 2009.
So whichever way you look at it we have more cash available than Liverpool, both Milan’s, Juventus, Munich, Newcastle and Top4tottenham.
The only clubs that have more than that are ManU, Madrid and Barca, the Chavs and ManCity have sugar daddies so they could outspend us too, but that’s it, so we are not skint, we are in fact very, very rich.
So why are we not acting like it? Why did we spend less than anyone last season? I would love to have someone from Arsenal on here, to tell me why we seem to be a feeder club for the so called big boys, why players such as Anelka, Viera, Edu, Henry, Overmars, Petit, Flamini and now Hleb all go on to other clubs and then earn more money.
One AKB site yesterday reminded us that Wenger could speak 10 languages and Graham signed no-one, well a Tunisian beach boy can speak 10 languages so what was that point? And Ian Wright for me was one of our best ever signings and that was a George Graham buy, so to that ‘Inanimate’ blog site, good point, thanks
I didn’t read it by the way, it was brought to my attention. I wouldn’t give sites like that the time of day but that comment was sadly funny, in a Homer Simpson type of way, so I wanted to share it with you all, give you all a bank holiday laugh!
It has just come to my attention that an overseas Arsenal blog site today was wondering if sites like us could keep speculating for 92 days, well yes actually, we’re a blog site and we’re supposed to speculate, it’s obvious that writing about us is all these sites have to do this summer, we prefer to talk Arsenal, and no I didn’t read that one either, Pedro told me.
We move on swiftly, we were 2 or 3 players short this season, Wenger’s words, not mine, then we lost Diarra, Lehmann, Flamini and probably Hleb, so that must mean we’re signing 6 or 7 players, assuming that we’ll bring in Vela and Diaby with one from Randall, Lansbury, Wilshere or Denilson from the stiffs, does that mean 3 or 4 new buys?
If it does then I would go for Barry, Diego and Nasri. We urged Wenger to sign Nasri last summer and he didn’t, if he doesn’t do it by the Euro’s, his value will double, we also said that Diego would be worth a punt and given that he won’t sign Arfa and Nasri, then that would be my choice.
Though swapping Hleb for Goofy or Kaka and cash would make me respect Arsenal more, I expect we won’t though so I won’t labour the point.
All I am is an Arsenal fan trying to make other Arsenal fans happy, speculating about signing world class players and winning a few trophies is one way, watching John Terry and Nickolas Anelka take penalties is another, the latter won’t happen again for at least another year, though the former could happen tomorrow!
Here’s to mañana and have a happy holiday today Grovers.
May 26, 2008 at 9:52 am
all we wnat is a bloody signing, when oh when will it happen, its like januaray all over again!
May 26, 2008 at 9:57 am
Great post Geoff, so we really are in the big boy leagues now?
I saw that site you are talking about through Arseblog, it seem they don’t like your site that much?
There seemed to be a big misunderstanding in their comments section. Most of them were calling the article sarcastic, I think irony was the word they were looking for. Even the writer got this confused. Says a lot really!
I make it 4 signings for the summer. Diaby is replacing Flamini so Hleb is the only extra replacement needed.
Do you think the coach will buy that many players?
May 26, 2008 at 10:02 am
To say that story didn’t make me wet myself would be a lie.
‘One AKB site yesterday reminded us that Wenger could speak 10 languages and Graham signed no-one, well a Tunisian beach boy can speak 10 languages so what was that point?’
HILARIOUS!
Goofy would be great, but I would be more inclined to think we have a tasty goat herder lined up who could be great in 2011. Have we signing Chantome, saw him the other night, average.
May 26, 2008 at 10:03 am
Morning all - interesting reading, and to know we are so badly off financially is good news and should hopefully mean that Usmanov will be kept well away.
We dont want him to buy out the club, as this would spell severe danger.
This guy would be in it purely for the money and if things ever got tight, no doubt he would walk away and not give a toss about where that would leave our club
Stan, i think is a bit different, and loves sport - i would not be unhappy if he joined the current board but a takeover would again be wrong, but i dont think he really wants that much control.
Us apart, the other ‘top’ teams in EPL are owned by parties outside the UK and at anytime could just take the money and run - it will happen, and i dont think it will be long. Look at what is going on at Anfield behind the scenes - how can this help a team trying to win things. They have spent a lot of money the last two seasons and for what….. a lucky win over us in CL…
I know we have won nothing for three seasons, BUT once we get the right players in the summer and break the mould we are setup for the next ten years, but like all of us, I think we need to stretch the purse strings and buy 2 -3 experienced, quality players this summer to jump start our winning ways. And that is besides the likes of Nasri, Ben Arfa etc -
And, now know we are no so hard up, i really hope this will happen
May 26, 2008 at 10:04 am
gee… chelsea want torres!!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:06 am
Excellent article again - So, the reason we don’t but is NOT coz we’re skint, the reason we don’t pay wages at the going rate is not coz we’re skint, this must then come directly from the board and/or AW…………therefore it’s club policy, a small time club policy/philosophy!
May 26, 2008 at 10:08 am
I think that the guy at Arseblog gets most things wrong..his IQ is probably the size of a peanut…………………I will go on and read the Forbes stuff myself..
any news of any signings any time soon?????????????
May 26, 2008 at 10:10 am
BB.. adebayor is linked with a 24-30 mill move
May 26, 2008 at 10:11 am
choy - if that is right then sell him and get villa
May 26, 2008 at 10:12 am
James, irony it was, shows their standard of blogger eh? I think he will sign, but I don’t think they’ll be the names we crave, more the Sagna type, hey if they all turn out like Sagna, then fine, but I also remember Chris Wrey and Alberto Mendez…
May 26, 2008 at 10:14 am
Anyone heard about the big central defender we were supposed to sign?? Strangely, it all gone very quiet on that front. No speculation in the tabloids!!!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:15 am
During 2006/7 Arsenal match day revenue was $150 million against $82 in the last year at Highbury, that included tickets, merchandise, concessions and hospitality sales, that’s £6 million a game and $1 million a matchday more than Manchester United.
Surely that £6 million is $6 million
May 26, 2008 at 10:16 am
if ade leaves i think we will get gomez… like for like and young!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:17 am
G’Day all,
Top rank Geoff, there is no shying away from those figures/statitics. My only concern is that if they are to sell the apartments by the end of season 2009, they will still hold out on spending till debt free. Which means no big signings in the imediate future, AKA now!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:17 am
It would be nice to see, just once, our supporters putting 2+2 together and working out a correct answer.
The reason we have not spent on superstars or stupid wages like the chavs and the mancs is because of a policy agreed on by AW & the board before the stadium decision was agreed ie; that AW would provide us guaranteed Euro places for 3/4 seasons and build a squad for next to nothing, until the old Highbury was sold. He has not only done that but also should have had a title or two but for some bent officials in the months of March & April.
So to all those who still dont understand economics ie; working class Tories, I suggest you wait until 2009 when suddenly Arsene (our God) will have money to burn. Mind you he still wont waste a penny.
Hey all, notice I can’t spell, I must be one of the above, doooh!
May 26, 2008 at 10:17 am
trust me we need adebayor, he is a new breed of a striker, we fans dont value him much… but a lot of teams would love to have an adebayor in their team.
he is quick, strong, agile and has technique and he scored 30 goals this season.
May 26, 2008 at 10:18 am
does anyone know how good the other players who wenger has got are the other two french players are they good signings or just for the future or more like diaby not tht good
May 26, 2008 at 10:21 am
Whats a working class Tory?
May 26, 2008 at 10:21 am
choy.. I think that Ade will stay this season .. if he goes to Barca, we will get TH14 back
I am absolutely convinced of this
Drogba wil definitely join Jose Cuntinho at Inter.. probably even Fat Lampard..
good riddance.. and good for us as well
hopefully the other cunt from the Algarve will fuck off as well
so thats our 2 main rivals weakened
all we need to do is buy a few players.. but that seems to be the difficult part of the exercice with our half German beancounter running a tight purse
May 26, 2008 at 10:21 am
if ade has to leave wenger has to get villa or eto and not someone like vela or vela himself he has to SPEND WE ARE THE THIRD RICHEST CLUB THIRD!!AND WE SPEND LESS THAN WEST HAM I THIK A LOT OF MONEY IS BEING EATEN BY THE BOARD or something or y wont wenger spend and be a top club its just stupid
May 26, 2008 at 10:23 am
Gnarley, don’t worry he’s an AKB, we won’t see him again, he can’t spell either, so people in glasshouses!
May 26, 2008 at 10:23 am
GunnerPete - Just explain to me just how ANY manager can guarantee CL football, what sort of cobblers comment is that - and for the record i’m a working class Tory and i fully understand economics as equally as i understand bullshit and spin!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:24 am
GunnerShabz.. i like ade.. don’t get me wrong.. but if someone offers me 30 mill for him… i’m off..!!!
but like BB says i think he’ll stay here another season and try to prove himself again…
May 26, 2008 at 10:25 am
apparently we’re to be be debt free by 09.. so lets see!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:25 am
Also, the reason we didn’t win the league this season was more down to average squad members replacing injured first teamers rather than dodgy decisions from referees, ’bout time you got those rose tinted AW glasses off fella………
May 26, 2008 at 10:25 am
GunnerPete..still not waste a penny and still not win any trophies…….
great .. just loking forward to all the foul excuses that will be used all along.. let me guess, could it be the refs fault gain??
May 26, 2008 at 10:27 am
The other thing he doesn’t realise is Wenger is also a working class Tory, he’s probably at school where they think it’s cool and grown up to insult people that have done well for themselves.
When he has his own house and leaves home, he’ll appreciate what earning money is and why people that work hard should be applauded and not mocked.
He probably has a poster of Che or Fidel on his wall and thinks he’s a cool dude!
May 26, 2008 at 10:29 am
heh, the chav’s have also been linked with kaka, geoff, or more precisely, abromovich has been…
drogba + carvahlo + cash, for the brazilian superstar himself: not an unlikely statement, and more likely than us getting kaka imo, as mourinho is expected to take the reins at AC milan, and drogba wants to link up with his old manager again.
that being said, kaka did sign a new contract at AC milan in the winter…
here is the full article from goal.com: http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=710860
still though, we don’t have anything official re: the transfer front. lets get something happening arsene! i’m expecting an announcement about samir nasri at arsenal tomorrow or wednesday though, with more to follow over the next week or 2.
also, finally, great post geoff, kinda nice to know something like that from a respected source, although even though arsene isn’t willing to spend big, and sticks to his salary-cap, he still does buy smartly, and he buys talent. sure, it’d be kinda nice to have avoided this trash with flamini and hleb, but we’ll be a more stable team without there “late-night ice-cream runs” and such.
cut the fat imo! =D
May 26, 2008 at 10:30 am
To the AKB who didn’t get on that said we haven’t sold the flats yet, well when you go past the development or read the ads, it says hurry, 95% sold, so what are Arsenal lying? Would Arsene allow that?
You can’t have it both ways.
May 26, 2008 at 10:31 am
Geoff, Just checked wikipedia, its says a working class Tory supports the next government of Britain. MMMM!!! thats interesting.
May 26, 2008 at 10:31 am
James what about Ade for Kaka?
May 26, 2008 at 10:32 am
The only thing we should do is put his 2+2 together and come up with his fucking IQ, the dumbass…….he’s really pissed me off with his narrow-minded attitude……
May 26, 2008 at 10:32 am
Bring them on Gnarley!
May 26, 2008 at 10:34 am
true.. in France and Germany, new money isnt very popular
having said that, our own Arsene is pretty much working class and is doing rather well for himself..but I guess all this will go to his kids.. who will turn out to be completely the opposite of what he wanted them to be and will go and party with John Terry’ s boys .. and in the process buy a few Aston Martins, drink their fair share of Crystal and shag all the hot bunnies on the party circuit
poor old Arsene, if only you knew who you were saving your dosh for..you would have spent it all upfront on Kaka..even your own money ……………..
May 26, 2008 at 10:34 am
transfer coup of the millenium would be getting 20 large off some mug club for badebayor.
that would be a fooking classic, shifting a donkey for the same amount as the GDP of a small african country.
get rid of him and purchase benzema and we will FLLLLLLLLLLLY
May 26, 2008 at 10:34 am
hahahaha! just read this at http://www.goalkeeperonline.com
“Juande Ramos is set to bring Lyon goalkeeper Gregory Coupet to Tottenham for £2.5m.”
go go go Top4Tottenham!
May 26, 2008 at 10:35 am
geoff.. we won’t be able to afford kaka’s wages!!!
and he’s injury prone!!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:37 am
Accounting bullocks.
Bear Stern collapsed in 48 hrs. 2 days after it report a profit which beats estimate on wall street?
You believe in Accounting?
May 26, 2008 at 10:38 am
have to agree 100% with joseph.
accounts have always been, and will always be nicely massaged.
May 26, 2008 at 10:39 am
not sure i would call david dein a stupid man.. why did he call for a large investor to help fund the team only last season?
surely he knew the figures et al better than anybody else
May 26, 2008 at 10:39 am
Next season we won’t be able to afford Cesc’s! I heard Ronaldo is being offered £150k a week tax free by Madrid, I think it’s time FIFA stepped in.
I think Kaka would lower his demands to play for us, don’t you?
May 26, 2008 at 10:39 am
we know how much we all love the daily mail .. but god i hope this one holds some water
The Daily Mail claims that Arsenal have targeted VfB Stuttgart striker Mario Gomez as a replacement for the possible outgoing Emmanuel Adebayor.
The German is apparently a major target for Arsenal, and finished his season in German in fine form; scoring 19 goals to finish second in the German Bundesliga scoring charts behind Luca Toni.
Gomez, 22, has represented the German national side nine times during his career, scoring six times. The German/Spanish striker is under contract untill 2012 at Stuttgart, however he may be able to leave the Mercedes-Benz-Arena for as little as £10 million.
Arsene Wenger may see this price tag as a bargain for Arsenal, as Gomez certainly has the potential to succeed at Arsenal. And with Adebayor possibly set to leave the Emirates, Gomez could emerge as an ideal replacement for the Togolese.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE come true !!
also did anyone hear robinho will replace berba ??!
probably just a robinho agent trick to get more wages for next season !
May 26, 2008 at 10:41 am
not really geoff, think thats cloud cuckoo land about kaka, he is meelan through and through.
he has signed a new contract etc, and he is not one of these modern day mercenary type of players that jump ship at the drop of a hat.
May 26, 2008 at 10:41 am
Joseph, Bear Stearns didn’t lie, they just didn’t say how exposed they were to bad debt.
May 26, 2008 at 10:41 am
BB
tell howard to come visit us here !!!
he doesn’t deserve the persecution some other blogs give him ..
May 26, 2008 at 10:42 am
news now says we are in for reals da la red is he good and have heard quresma is thr for 4-5 million tht would add depth and is v cheap
May 26, 2008 at 10:43 am
quaresma for 4-5 m?
May 26, 2008 at 10:43 am
ade for kaka would be sweet, if RvP was fit… idk how he’ll come back though. at the end of last season i would’ve said that RvP could play a whole season as the #1 striker for us, and he came out firing…
then he got seleced for the netherlands team, and gets injured, and it all went shit from there for his season!
if we had another, more senior striker (besides ade, who we’re proposing gets traded), again, i wouldn’t mind it, but we don’t, eduardo is injured, RvP is a bit unreliable after his injury (although i have a good feeling about his euro ‘08 tournament, a return to form as it were), and the rest are young. nicky b could do the job a few weeks in a row, with support from vela and theo, but idk….
we haven’t been linked with any strikers apart from gomes, and while i’d like him, we have alot of strikers, so him coming in is only possible if we trade ade (probably + cash) for kaka… i’m going to entertain that idea though, and stay hopeful about it. haha…
just remembered we’ve been linked with david villa too, and thinking on it, villa, cesc and kaka in the same team would be awesome, but so un-wenger like too… =/
May 26, 2008 at 10:43 am
Geoff,
Bear didn’t lie of cuz. Does it make accounting more trustworthy?
You should always watch your pocket. Especially when you are in dept.
May 26, 2008 at 10:44 am
fabgooner, are’nt you the fella that predicts wenger will play the following midfield next season ( LOL )
walcott cesc rosicky nasri ?
May 26, 2008 at 10:46 am
ethan..is that man still around ..still going on about buying any crap players provided they are born under the Commonwealth sun ..
I would love him here so we can contribute to increase his mentall illnes
May 26, 2008 at 10:47 am
geez… why would kaka take a pay cut to play for arsenal .. when he plays for MILAN?
just one year of uefa cup… i’m sure he will cope..
look at buffon and co.. they got relegated and he stuck with them!!!
May 26, 2008 at 10:48 am
egunner - i heard that robinho/berbatov swap deal a few weeks back, but didn’t give it any thought……..why would a player of Robinho’s stature want to go to a mid-table team who at best play in the EUFA cup each season??
May 26, 2008 at 10:48 am
Hleb is going. I hope that Adebayor is going. We owe Arsene the oppotunity to recruit well and promote from within. He faces a huge task but I wish him well. If spending money is all it took then Leeds would have been in Moscow this week not losing to Doncaster at Wembley.
May 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
good post ramgun.
sense, at last.
May 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
We have to watch our pocket because we can’t live on dept. What if some unthinkable event happen just like in Bear Stern?
If we live so much on the edge, what if one day, someone falls on the stairs at the emirates and sue us? We go bankrupt? It’s a joke.
May 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
quaresma for 4-5 million pounds would be wicked, but doubtful. porto will juice as much money out of his sale as possible, if he does indeed go.
also, i meant mario gomez in my last post, not gomes (the keeper), even though i would like him at arsenal too, as i think almunia is only a 2nd keeper at best atm. our defense has holes, but his keeping could be touched up too.
May 26, 2008 at 10:49 am
Joseph, I didn’t say trust them, I’m saying we are one of the worlds richest clubs, so act like it, stop saying we can’t afford players when we clearly can, and watch it or we’ll lose all our best ones, which we clearly are.
May 26, 2008 at 10:50 am
again, what did Dein know about our finances this time last year that nobody else does?
hmmmmmmmm
May 26, 2008 at 10:50 am
Is there any need to sound so arrogant?
May 26, 2008 at 10:51 am
Guys - Re Gomez and/or Villa, if we are to believe out glorious leader, he stated quite categorically that he wasn’t in the market for a striker…………….ha ha ha, more AFC/AW cobblers??
May 26, 2008 at 10:52 am
Excellent article. Good mixture of fact fun and fancy, and farce. For now Arse need to continue to develop youth as we are not yet able to blow £30Million on useless Chavs to warm the bench for less well known players coming off the pitch after playing 80 mins of the hardest football in the world. Modern day players burn out younger and start to fade around 27. Wenger still has options amongt existing players. I believe Gael Chichy could convert to defensive midfield as well, if not better than Emmmanuel Petite. He is faster to the ball, good positional sense, very clean tackle and a good young engine. Traore could fill in adequately at left back. Nasri is a necessary replacement for Robert Pirez as Hleb was not able to fill that role, with either assists, goals or defensive contribution. Wiltshire is adequate replacement for minor injuries / rests cum development to prevent early burnout. But a CB of Adams, Bould, O’Leary genre until Northveldt comes through is essential. I agree that such speculation in the close season is about as good as it gets. Gives us some interest too in the players’ shop window that is the far inferior Euro-peeing Nationalist tour-in-a-mount.
May 26, 2008 at 10:53 am
clichy as a DM LOL
whatever next?
jens lemon playing in the free role behind the main striker?
May 26, 2008 at 10:56 am
No stupid he can’t he’s going to Stuttgart, glad you liked it big gooner john.
May 26, 2008 at 10:57 am
Ok we buy kaka, say.
But, if we are unlucky enough that kaka injured from week 1 and we are to miss europe competition, we will go bankrupt because we can’t service the dept and we have used up our credit and no banks are lending anymore to us as we have no more colliterials.
Will you take the risk?
May 26, 2008 at 10:57 am
well spotted geoff.
how about little fabianski as a left winger then?
May 26, 2008 at 10:58 am
yes i did say tht y is tht funny??
May 26, 2008 at 10:59 am
i know its hopefull but funny?
May 26, 2008 at 10:59 am
fabgooner, do you seriously think wenger would ever play that midfield?
May 26, 2008 at 11:00 am
no but stilllooks nice
wht do u think will it be
May 26, 2008 at 11:02 am
Joseph
how on gods green earth do you think our current board would get into severe debt ?
we havent spent fuck all for 2 or 3 seasons ..
geoff even stated
So why are we not acting like it? Why did we spend less than anyone last season?
i dont think we spent less last season ! i think we made a profit !
we have had cash surpluses most of the past 2 or 3 seasons in the transfer market .
we sold reyes finally - th14 - freddie - made 2 mil clear profit on diarra …
and bought sagna and dudu for about 15 mil total !
the way i see it we made 5 - 10 mil last season !
on transfers !!!!!
we didnt spend a red cent ..
May 26, 2008 at 11:02 am
i think it will be..
eboue cesc gilberto rosicky/nasri
i hope it will be….
theo cesc diaby/denilson nasri
May 26, 2008 at 11:03 am
ethan - we are in debt do to the cost of the new stadium.
about 400m at last count.. ish
May 26, 2008 at 11:04 am
fabgooner we would get raped with that midfield!!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:05 am
literally.
May 26, 2008 at 11:06 am
No we’re not we’ll be debt free next season.
May 26, 2008 at 11:06 am
he surly wont play eboue again thr will he ?tht would be stupid by wenger he should have rosciky thr and eboue coming in as a versatile player i mean (LB,RB,LM,RM)
May 26, 2008 at 11:07 am
Also for the just plain mentally retarded , how do you think we can loose money on buying nasri !?? ben arfa gomez ?
if we sold them players the following year they would get us more cash than a loss !
its a win - win scenario . these PLAYERS ARE FUCKING ASSETS !!!
its like buying land !!!
the price at the age wenger gets them for generally will only make them more expensive
once we make them heros !!!
you need to think about what your saying before you blindly say buying player looses us money !
May 26, 2008 at 11:09 am
eboue had his 15 mins of fame and more in the winger slot….
hope arsene doesn’t experiment like that EVER again… man u have ronaldo in that position!!!!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:09 am
100% debt free next season?
how does this happen, since we are a property holdings company and the market has taken a dramtic downturn with much worse to come.
and btw, can somebody throw up a guess at why dein thought we needed a benefactor last year when the property market was at its PEAK….
somebody is clearly deluded here
May 26, 2008 at 11:10 am
ethangunners,
Think before you speak. What’s wrong with making profits the last few years?
You are not answering the question. Would you risk bankruptcy?
May 26, 2008 at 11:11 am
geoff, you sounded like you are sitting in the board.
May 26, 2008 at 11:12 am
well stupid.. i think all the money is going into paying those debts….!!!
well dein took a look at chelsea.. man u.. .and the entire premier league spending through the roof… so i guess he got a bit excited!!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:12 am
How can someone who allegedly “supports” a club founded by two northern socialists David Danskin and Jack Humble, and who fought for the right of all workers to play football, call himself a “working class tory” ? is this an Oxymoran or is just a moron ? Other examples of Oxymorons or plain morons are Gooner Chavs, Manure gunner Etc.
May 26, 2008 at 11:12 am
Like I said Arsenal themselves say that we’ve sold 95% don’t you believe them? The loans were fixed at 5.9% so the credit crisis won’t affect them, the rest is on this post so what’s deluded stupid?
May 26, 2008 at 11:12 am
i swear and how good are the other two french players wenger got?
May 26, 2008 at 11:13 am
i agree with geoff ..
ok stupid we might currently be in debt .
but with the figures we are taking thru the turn styles on game day it wont take long to
be so debt free , with highbury condos and tv rights .. cutting corners left right and center
it wont take long to get the monkey off our back ! not with the sort of revenue fire power this new stadium is generating ..
my feel is they are paying it off as quick as possible ( to the detriment of our football team) , to make more cash when the club is finally taken over ..
May 26, 2008 at 11:13 am
also ethangunner, we don’t make any money if players leave on a free…
May 26, 2008 at 11:13 am
choy, i would wager that dein is a slightly shrewder man than the one you describe.
if he knew we would be debt free within 24 months and generating operating profits in excess of 100m, debt free… why did he want a benefactor?
think about it people, ffs
May 26, 2008 at 11:14 am
Joseph I wish I was, shareholder not board member I’m afraid!
May 26, 2008 at 11:14 am
but yes, i generally agree that we’ll be debt free very soon, which means that we should bolster our squad with tried and proven performers =D
May 26, 2008 at 11:15 am
ethan..thats exactly what Wenger does..buing assets that have a very low probability of devaluation..look at Cesc/Ade..these guys wil be gone from the club by 2010 at latest..we are talking about 50-75MM Euros for both .. thats at least 50MM quid..
great biz .. Nasri/Arfa..same same .. but what we need is stability with top players..not the fukking transfer circus surrounding us stemming from our position as a feeder club…
May 26, 2008 at 11:16 am
ethangunner, don’t put words in my mouth, i didn’t say we have a negative balance in our transfer budget.. unlike chelski
I am saying we just put down a mortgage and bought a house. Now you are shouting we want a car, yes i just got a pay rise but what if i got laid off? what if i got sick and can’t go to work?
I can’t buy you your toy this time.
May 26, 2008 at 11:20 am
Grovers, we are a top club and it’s not too much to ask for us to buy a few stars, other top clubs do all the time and they still make money, why are we different?
A new stadium is no different to an old one if it’s paid off by next season, if you don’t believe me, look at the artille Forbes wrote or look at a copy of the Arsenal accounts, they’re in the public domain.
May 26, 2008 at 11:21 am
keeping up with the jones’s hey geoff
May 26, 2008 at 11:25 am
Geoff, Highbury apartments are 95% sold, & Arsenal will be debt free when they are all sold….and a bank or alternative financial institution lends on, not how much debt you have but on your ability to service the debt. Then Arsenal F C is home and hosed aren’t they/we. Arsene Wenger, “Now is the time” my friend. Go for it!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:25 am
James Bartram Says:
May 26, 2008 at 11:13 am
also ethangunner, we don’t make any money if players leave on a free…
true but flamini was a free transfer to begin with ..
but i take your point . flamini should always be re-signed in my veiw even going on the season priors form ! he did ok at left back .. and was a good fill in for clichy .. if he didn’t raise to stardom, a wigan or sunderland would have picked him up for 2/3 or 4 mil !
thats arsenes fault and i hope he has learned his lesson , in fact ill go as far as to say IM SURE HE’S LEARNED HIS LESSON !!
May 26, 2008 at 11:25 am
Geoff, I trust your figures and I read arsenal balance sheet from arsenal website from time to time. Our mortgage last 25 years so I don’t know what you mean dept free.
Anyways, I say the board is more risk adverse than you are. I think it is a fair comment. And I would support risk adverse approach, certainly in this kind of credit environment.
This is good for the club.
May 26, 2008 at 11:25 am
Lets be honest here chaps, we finished 4 points off the champions.
we threw 8 points away just off the top of my head during the last 6 weeks of the season, so we were very very close to being champions, in all honesty a top notch 6ft4 defender with mobility in the side during the manure/chelski games and we would have at least draawn them both, outcome?
champions.
we got robbed by a clearly bent ref in the champs league so who knows how far we would have gone there.
DON’T BE TOO QUICK TO KNOCK US.
May 26, 2008 at 11:25 am
i can see us complaining next summer when
adebayor scores 30+ goals, we will not be able to afford him
nikki b will be banging the goals in and ac milan or someone will take him
robin van persie proves his fitness next season and someone will bid
cesc fabregas is going to think fuck this…
the board needs to stop this now….
May 26, 2008 at 11:28 am
Morning Grovers!
Great post Geoff… are you implying we give a Tunisian beach boy the role of manager? haha!
BB, should a manager be using property tactics when buying players? Doesn’t that limit him somewhat? Wouldn’t buying a player who is 26, could settle straight away and win us matches outweigh him signing a Hleb who takes 3 years to bed in then leaves?
Do you think we are going to get more than £11mill for him? I doubt it…
Top teams buy players to win them trophies now… not in 3 years. We are now a top team according to Forbes. I think we should forget how we used to operate becuase we shouldn’t need to act like that any more.
That doesn’t mean get yourself into loads of debt. ManU didn’t get themselves into loads of debt buying players in the 90’s did they? Nor did Liverpool… (Not that they had much success!).
Maybe Wenger is just a shoe string budget type of manager in the same way Fergie is a big budget manager… that probably wont ever change.
May 26, 2008 at 11:28 am
GunnerShabz ,
I would happy to see this happen if we can earn $50 million for each of them?
What’s wrong?
May 26, 2008 at 11:28 am
ethan.. also considering the structure of the bonds that we were able to issue before the credit crunch, something we should be immensely happy for as today we would never be able to transform any longer the syndicated loan we took on into secuitized assets, I believe that the club will NOT look into paing off these bonds quickly
I checked the bonds the other day and they have a sinking factor in them anyway, meaning that the club is redeeming part of the debt at certain times during the life of the bonds.. I simply cannot see the point of paying them back quicker as we have the optimal structure in place.. we have a long term debt profile at very reasonable rate levels
the interesting bit will be what the club will do with all the excess cash stemming from the sale of flats etc.. where will it go??????????????? players..dividends.. THIS WLL BE CRUCIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!what do you think Geoff??
May 26, 2008 at 11:29 am
j
Think before you speak. What’s wrong with making profits the last few years?
Because a football club is about football .. this isnt microsoft !
we the fans who PAY THE MONEY ! who pay the wages of these people running the club
are more interested in becoming business tycoons than playing and spending money on the pitch !
thats where it should start and end !
we will never be in debt to the clout of man U .. because arsene is a smart buyer .
he wants to win .. like certain fans do ! it reflects on him ..
if you like to see strong profitable foundations you need to keep the fans interested !
your talking like these fans will be loyal and faithful forever ! they will die !
and the new fans will barrack for winning teams !
like in asia ! i dont see too many wigan stickers on cars .. its either liverpool - man U - and a growing number of chevski stickers …
there is a balance .! and with that talk your talking we will have no fan base left to
fleece every year ! highest ticket prices in the EPL .. for watching a 2nd rate team who has won nothing for 4 seasons !
how long do you think we will have fans willing to pay money , when we are continually 2nd best season after season !!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:30 am
yeah, i agree geoff, granted we love the guys we have, but a real (pre-made) superstar at arsenal would be phenomenal! someone like kaka or david villa, grogory coupet, players of this calibre, players who’re already loved the world-over, who’ll bolster season ticket sales (not that this affects us, the fans, but its an effect that this kind of signing would have on the business side of things for arsenal), not to mention shirt-sales and such… someone who we’re about to watch in euro ‘08 guide his team and country to the trophy!
give us this player arsene, and alot of people here on this blog will say “god-damn, we were wrong about you!”
there is no need to spend big on 3-4 big names, such as chelsea or man u do every season, we just want 1, is that too much to ask?
we’ll find out over the next 2-3 months i guess… =D
May 26, 2008 at 11:31 am
Stupid, thats not so stupid. Defenders are a lot cheaper than strikers & mid fielders. It won’t break the bank by getting a top notch evil CB, with controlled agression, & we are champions.
May 26, 2008 at 11:31 am
Pedro I couldnt agree more with you .. and you can do both btw.. you can stilbuy the young promising stars of the future.. our strategy right now is too one sided
May 26, 2008 at 11:32 am
ethangunner ,
You are willing to risk the club future for a few buys today.
Admit it. This is what you just said.
how long do you think we will have fans willing to pay money? Ask yourself, not me.
May 26, 2008 at 11:32 am
Manu adebayor has got age on his side, he is only 24 and why a lot of teams want him because they see him as a young drogba.
we can sell him when he is 28 or something
am desperate for RvP to show his worth in this euro 2008, show his class and score goals, i think he need confidence
May 26, 2008 at 11:33 am
Does anyone have an actual reference from Arsenal about this “debt free by end of 2009″ business?
The Highbury Square development won’t be completely finished until 2011 ish. When you buy one you put up 10% on agreement, and then I think 25% as an intermediate payment on a schedule, and then the balance on completion. So, Arsenal aren’t going to receive all of the money until 2011 at the earliest. The payments will be staggered, obviously. And, even then, the PROFIT from that development isn’t going to be enough to pay off Arsenal’s debt.
Emirates didn’t give us £100m up front. They are giving us £90 over the course of the contract, which is 15 years for the stadium, 8 years for the kit. We do get the majority of the money in the first 8 years, but it is still 8 years. This money goes to the day-to-day running of the club, as previous sponsorships have.
Same sort of deal with Nike, they make payments on a season by season basis.
The object of the game is not to spend money, it is to win trophies. If Wenger can achieve that without spending millions in the transfer market on over-hyped players, then that’s good.
This season we made a profit in the transfer market, and made a massive improvement. 15 more points, 4 points from the top, and we were deeply unlucky in both the PL and the CL.
A similar improvement next season is all that’s required.
Wenger is a genius in the transfer market. Look at Sagna - the best right back in the PL. Chelsea just spent more than double on Bosingwa.
How well did Malouda do? How about Pizzaro? or Schevchenko? Spending money doesn’t mean a thing. Torres (which Liverpool borrowed £20m to buy) scored the same number of goals as Adebayor, who cost 1/4 of that. Having seen Adebayor play, many times, I think he is excellent. You don’t score that many goals without being good. And, for the stats fanatics, he has a much better shots to goals ratio than Ronaldo.
I believe Wenger is the best manager in Europe. That’s why everyone wants him. He achieves it all without spending massive money. His youth development is amazing.
Sure, we need to spend some money this year, and Wenger has said he will do that. But, beyond Hleb (and Eboue), I don’t want anyone to leave. We need to keep Adebayor. Oh, and why oh why oh why would we want to swap Adebayor, who is getting better and better, with amazing stamina and general fitness, with Henry, who is completely knackered, and only going downhill?? It just doesn’t make sense. We would be getting the Henry of 2009, not 1999.
May 26, 2008 at 11:34 am
ethangunner ,
If you have a loyalty problem, well that’s your problem.
May 26, 2008 at 11:34 am
i seriously think if we signed jonny woodgate in january, we would of been champions.
i can remember their was a last min link with us, i got happy and thought finally we getting this defender we so need
May 26, 2008 at 11:36 am
Hi Geoff,
You’re in form, Nice comments.
On your comments about other blogs
I like this blog for his way of dealing with Arsenal, but also enjoy some others one for the same reason. Different way of seeing things.
It’s like in a beauty contest mate, when asked who will win it.
some people we answer by choosing the girl they find the most beautifull…
… and some other wil choose the one they believe most people will vote for.
May 26, 2008 at 11:37 am
Barcelona are facing a battle to offload their biggest names this summer.
Deco, Samuel Eto’o, Eidur Gudjohnsen, Rafael Marquez and Ronaldinho are all being made available by Barca, but as yet few offers have arrived.
DiarioSport says Deco is pushing for a free transfer from Barca, while Roberto de Assis, Ronaldinho’s brother and agent, is in no great rush to complete the Brazilian’s departure from the Nou Camp.
Gudjohnsen, Eto’o and Marquez all have over two years left on their present deals and will only move to a club that suits them.
May 26, 2008 at 11:38 am
now thats a sensible post gareth.
this debt free by next season is way off the mark.
May 26, 2008 at 11:39 am
I think people forget that the plastic fans of the world are the ones who spend loads of money on merchandise and make the Asian markets so prosperous.
People can complain about them taking pictures and being football tourists, but at the end of the day… without success, they will disappear with our grotesque profits.
Like politics, you have your hardcore fans and your swing fans… if you want to continue to be a dominant market force, you have to keep those swing fans happy otherwise they will just fuck off and support the chavs or the mancs… sad as that may sound.
May 26, 2008 at 11:41 am
Stupid… the source for that is somebody very close to the club and not close as in the burger van man next to the station…
Regardless of the truth in that… the debt is manageable. If it wasn’t why would we have moved? What is the point of being cash strapped for 20 years?
We’ll just have to wait and see anyway!
May 26, 2008 at 11:42 am
stupid Says:
May 26, 2008 at 11:21 am
keeping up with the jones’s hey geoff
i will 2nd that ! if it means competing with them and winning trophies from them
why not steal the secret KFC recipe !!!
it sells fried food ! and we make more money ..
also spike there is a 3rd option , the one that preforms best in the bedroom !
May 26, 2008 at 11:43 am
am confident within 2 years we will be the richest club in the world, no doubt, but man ure have other plans, they are extended their stadium again.
real madrid will always get fans worldwide because they rinsed david beckham and so on…. they go to japan and america.
and plus they try to sign the best players in the world
May 26, 2008 at 11:43 am
but as gareth has pointed out… these flats are not completed until 2011/2012
and pedro, can you give me an idea as to why the shrewd opertor david dein fell out with the board?
surely he would have known we would be “debt free by 2009″.. why rock the boat?
May 26, 2008 at 11:47 am
we should really go sign giovani dos santos from barca
he will be one hell of a player, if we cant get hatem ben arfa.
and also sign that bulgarian guy dimitrov just for extra competition and some width
May 26, 2008 at 11:47 am
Pedro,
I think there is a reason we are the only big 4 teams which didn’t go for asian tour in recent preseasons.
Trophies chaser comes and goes, when we talk about growing our fan base, these are not what we were referring to.
May 26, 2008 at 11:48 am
Maybe he thought Arsenal couldn’t compete without a Sugar Daddy… after all, no amount of record match profits could see us compete with Abramovich? Or maybe he wanted more power within Arsenal and he knew he wouldn’t get it with the current board in place?
I don’t know Stupid… You could ask why Usmanov is so keen to buy Arsenal? Is it because he knows he could inherit a club that would be virtually debt free and making money by 2009?
I wouldn’t want to buy a debt laden club if I could by a perfect business model that is nearly debt free?
Maybe that is why there is a lock down agreement… it is easier to sell a debt free club and you’d get more money!
Many question Stupid, many questions.
May 26, 2008 at 11:49 am
thats where all the profits are going!!!
into paying the debt off as quickly as we can…. hence no transfer funds!!
May 26, 2008 at 11:49 am
Joseph I have to disagree.
When you sponsor Vietnamese Milk it is a pretty clear sign that Asian supporters are exactly the type of fans your club is pursuing.
May 26, 2008 at 11:49 am
Pedro
the arsenal board have all signed an agreement that they cant sell their shares till which year????
May 26, 2008 at 11:49 am
in that case, why are the arabs and all the top russian oligarchs not chasing after out club?
if it is that attractive a business, debt free etc?
why no bitter, hostile takeovers from several parties?
May 26, 2008 at 11:51 am
stupid, i think hostile takeovers are not happening because of the lock down agreement.
I think we are certainly the most attractive club in the world for buyers at the moment.
May 26, 2008 at 11:52 am
Well you cant have 10 potential investors hoovering up shares can you?
Kroenke has a load and Usmanov has a load… they got in first… better business men perhaps?
You can’t launch a hostile takeover until you get to 30% right (I am not a stock broker so correct me if I am wrong).
May 26, 2008 at 11:52 am
i agree with pedro on the swing fans i live in india in 2004 we had a lot of arsenal fans here and after chelski got ballack sheva etc they changed to chelsi i am not talking about 15-30 i mean a lot and now after manu are winning and becaue of ronaldo they change to manu in the stores here first thr was only arsenal stuff and now manu dtuff is sold in stoocks,ppl here dont see the future they just want the present try telling them we have adebayor compare him to rooney drogba in terms of public grabber thr are 5 times more shirts sold of tevez then ade here first it was henry he was a legend here,but as the epl is hugly marketed here and every show is of epl they forgot him ,he left and most arsenal fans changed here to manu or chel thts y we need 1-2 big players and grab tht part of the fan base back
May 26, 2008 at 11:53 am
Pedro, well i think they want arsenal blood grow in vietnam. Not japanese trophies chasers. i suppose.
May 26, 2008 at 11:54 am
japanese were a lot richer than vietnamise
May 26, 2008 at 11:54 am
joseph
yes im willing to sell my soul to the devil knowing that my personal avatar on this planet for the next 40 years wins trophies ! and along with that attracts more fans and builds a stable fan base for the future !WHICH IS MOST IMPORTANT ( your way will stop future fans from becoming fans because winners are griners ) It wont take long for AFC to have a fan base like blackburn , who will be remembered for winning the EPL 1 time eons ago ! Why did we move to this high profile stadium if we are on a beer budget ! … this will be the 3rd season of the grove ! and when will we have enough resources to act like the club that this stadium and our status should show !
its like a homeless hobo driving a 2008 Lamborghini !
also these players that we buy will be more of an asset next season !
i cant see where your going with this ? the money doesnt disappear for fucks sake
NEXT SEASON THESE SAID PLAYER WILL BE WORTH x 2 !!!!
your just an argumentative git who likes to revel in the megalomania of a successful business , if you like that, stop following sport and get some fuckin shares on the stock market ! this is a football club .. we need players to preform at the highest level possible !
what part of that is so hard to understand ?!
May 26, 2008 at 11:54 am
their is a lot of swings fans, usually in asia.
the player that can swing it is cesc fabregas, he is the man
May 26, 2008 at 11:55 am
Joseph, they see Vietnam as an emerging market that hasn’t been saturated by the Mancs or the Chavs yet…
Read Fabgooners post… he is much better positioned to enlighten you on the swing fan.
May 26, 2008 at 11:55 am
ok agreed on the lockdown.
but, then why would shareholders sell at 20-30 premiums when they could be holding golden goose shares within 24 months?
surely shareholders know the real ins and outs of our finances.
whatever, all i know is that this debt free within 12 months is nonesense.
May 26, 2008 at 11:55 am
Pedro, actually you are required by law to issue a hostile takeover when you hold over 30%. To protect investors interest.
May 26, 2008 at 11:57 am
‘but I also remember Chris Wrey and Alberto Mendez…’
And Henry, Vieira, Pires, Campbell, Fabregas, Ljunberg, Overmars, Petit, Anelka, Edu, Lauren.
It aint all bad Geoff.
May 26, 2008 at 11:57 am
thanks pedro
you said it better than i !
Like politics, you have your hardcore fans and your swing fans… if you want to continue to be a dominant market force, you have to keep those swing fans happy otherwise they will just fuck off and support the chavs or the mancs… sad as that may sound.
May 26, 2008 at 11:57 am
at the moment, man utd will have the fans, because they won the league and champions league.
their is too many swingers, outside of the uk……
in the uk u get traditions and loyalty to the teams…. around asia and so on, they dont experience the live match day
May 26, 2008 at 11:57 am
So I was right…
That is why lots of investor are not launching hostile takeovers because only one new investor has anywhere near that amount of shares…
I think the rules are slightly different in our stock market… stupid, is that correct?
May 26, 2008 at 11:58 am
All this nonsense about buying big players and bankrupting ourselves is utter cock. I for one do not want us to turn into another version of the Chavs, but how about balancing this youth policy out a bit by buying a proven player every once and while.
The merchandising on a player like Ribinho is worth his transfer fee alone, then there’s the difference a player of his class will do for the team both in terms of reassuring players like Cesc that we are worth staying with, as well as possible future signings might once again look at us as a place they’d like to be at……..
I personally feel that the biggest ever signing for us was DB10, that one signing propelled us from being an average, mid-table, English team to a truly progressive European team that had ambition, and it’s about time we showed that ambition again.
May 26, 2008 at 11:59 am
day by day this blog is turning into a real doom mongering anti-arsense jobbie.
show some positiviety people.
ffs, we don’t support spurs for one.
May 26, 2008 at 11:59 am
the swingers in OZ are definitely the Asian fans, they have swapped from
Man u to Real in recent season!
May 26, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Stupid… Geoff is a share holder and he is keeping hold of his!
Remember though… we are in the grip of a recession… your £800 share that is now worth £8k is quite an asset.
Not everyone who owns shares is Rich… that is a huge amount of money to be offered. I would suspect money talks for a lot of minor shareholders… no matter how deep their love for the club is.
May 26, 2008 at 12:00 pm
ye fabregas is started to become big here he comes in epl adds, he and ronaldo are mostly there and tht will help ppl see this and change to arsenal but with things in our papers like chelsi getting kaka,robhino does not help first i remember in 2004 i was in 9th grade and majority was arsenal followed by manu and very few chelsi now its manu arsenal and chelsi behind but getting a lot of fans fast
May 26, 2008 at 12:01 pm
well wneger has always come out and said a football club needs to be able to Survive on its own natural resources
from the looks of it we are doing just that, know one knows what the future may hold for the game of football.
fifa/eufa may push for some kind of financal rule or a cap on transfer fees spent by a club in one season or somthing even more over the top, i honestly wouldnt put past Blatter & Platini. after all they hate our league.
not only that look at the massive depts clubs are starting to bulid up. whats going to happen when they cant pay it. there willl be a football recession no club will be able to spend high transfer fees will be a thing of ther past as clubs wont be able to spend and looking to make as much money as possible. it will be LEEDS on a mass scale.
and if that happend our arsenal will be going strong cherry picking players for fun, as we would have had our finances in check from day One telling every one
“We Told You So!
We Are Were We Are Because We Run On Our Own Natural Resources”
i could be talking rubbish but i wouldnt be surprised in this day and age
May 26, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Pedro,
Fabgooners got a point as emerging market need a different approach.
Agree on vietnam being new. Just we need to recruit loyal fans and not worry about trophies chasing. They will come when we win.
May 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm
i dont blame him keeping hold of it.
the rules for hostile takeovers in the uk are more less the same as joseph described.
May 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm
No need to go on tour to please them that wouldn’t work.
May 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Stupid, there is nothing negative about being the 3rd richest club in the world… there is something distinctly negative about pretending you are the 3rd poorest.
Arsenal.com are causing the negativity.
May 26, 2008 at 12:03 pm
as a fan of Arsenal Football Club you have to consider both the financial side and playing side of the club. Wenger is doing that very very well, he is the best manager in the world and has the freedom to run a BIG Club like Arsenal with no pressure. But there are many supporters who are putting extra pressure on the club to win things, you are all completely blinded by our current situation.
The simple fact is we cant COMPETE in the TRANSFER MARKET. Players like Nasri, Ben Arfa, and younger talented players we have a chance of. But the big name players we havent got a leg to stand on at the moment. Yes players like Villa would love to play for Arsenal, we would love them to as well, but if we are offering 60k a week and Liverpool, Chelski, and ManUuu are offereing 100k then where is he going to go.. This is b4 the actual transfer fee!! I would imagine Villa being bought for a minimum of 20m this summer but not by us at this current time. We cant risk the future of our own club on 1 player just becos hes a big name.
May 26, 2008 at 12:03 pm
But you can refuse the takeover right?
May 26, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Chris… £14mill on Nasri says we can compete.
PHW saying Wenger is never refused a player says we can compete.
Edelman (Friar?) saying we could buy £70million player says we can compete.
May 26, 2008 at 12:04 pm
We have a lockdown agreement until 2012, so forget takeovers. The Emirates money was upfront, we will be debt free by 2009, if we weren’t going to be then tell me what was the point in leaving Highbury? We were debt free there.
If the Emirates money wasn’t upfront, then it would be the worst deal in history, but it was and by virtue of that the deal was okay.
If having this stadium makes us as poor as Derby, it was too stupid to comment on, so spend some money.
BB I would be surprised if they paid a dividend and interested to see if they will.
Spike, thanks for the comment!
May 26, 2008 at 12:04 pm
DennisDaMenace,
we are current doing what exact you suggest. Naris is not cheap. But we are not go overboard to get him though.