International week is dragging worse than Lily Savage (does that work?), so I thought I’d spark some debate on an otherwise boring Arsenal news day!
The question is, which is the greatest back 4 of Arsenes reign. Geoff and I put together a joint effort here.
1989-2002
Dixon - Adams - Keown - Winterburn
Lets star with Arsene’s inherited back four.
Dixon was a wing back could get up and down and whip in a cross as could Winterburn.
Adams was captain fantastic, great in the air, scored goals (as did the two full backs) and marshalled the whole team to fight to the death, never give in, Kolo has some of that.
Keown was probably the best man marker I have ever seen and would run all day long. The lot of them were like Cesc for being Arsenal, through and through. We conceded 19 goals the year we won the league in 1991.
A great back four who won many trophies and practically invented the offside trap. The only negatives would be their all round technique.
2002-2004
Lauren - Campbell - Kolo - Cole
The great invincibles defence of 2004! Lauren was a powerful solid right back. He had been converted from a defensive midfielder and cost £7 million from Real Mallorca. Some thought him to be the weakest link in our team at the time, but I think after our right back problems last year, we all realised what a powerful and reliable defender Lauren was.
Sol Campbell instantly became a legend when he joined us on a Bosman Free in 2001 from the Spuds. He was a man mountain of a player, good in the air and hard in the tackle. I think his mobility could have been questioned in the later part of his Arsenal career but as a defender and a leader, he was second to none and an England international.
Kolo Toure, one of the few remaining invincibles to still hold his position in the current back 4. I think the season he started in the back four was the season we won the league. He was green to central defence, but took to the position like a duck takes to water. His enthusiasm was infectious and his hard work and determination was often an inspiration to the team. I remember hearing a story about Kolo… Apparently after each meal he had at the training ground, he used to go to the kitchen, thank all the staff and shake their hands.
I will write about Ashley in the light I used to see him. He went out on loan to Crystal Palace for a season, he came back like most of the youth do and filled in for Silvinho while he was out injured, when Silvinho came back from his stint out, he couldn’t regain his place. Wenger sent Silvinho packing, Silvinho changed the spelling of his name in shame (Sylvinho) and that was that! Ashley Cole endeared himself to the Arsenal faithful immediately with his ability to go forward and his pace to get back. His defending was criticised to begin with, but he soon sorted that out and became one of the most revered left backs in the world.
The season of the invincibles, we only conceded 26 times. When you consider the money that had flooded the Premiership and subsequently, how high the bar was raised with player quality, that is quite an achievement. In my eyes, it probably supercedes the efforts of the 98 Prem winning team.
2007-2008
Sagna - Gallas - Toure - Clichy
So how do the current table topping defence fair up, pound for pound?
Sagna is one of the only players Arsenal have signed who has slotted into his role seamlessly. The guy is hugely underrated and pivotal to the current Arsenal team. He is young, pacey and a very accomplished defender. He is also deadly going forward. Acting like a wing back, delivering pin point crosses and causing opposition problems all game long! He gives us width, stability as well as health. The guy rarely gets injured does he?
Gallas was signed on a bosman free from our rich chums over the other side of London (Notice any parallels?). He spent the whole of his first season bitching about the ambition of Arsenal and the quality of his counterparts. The second season was about to begin, and to reward Gallas for his professionalism, Wenger awarded him the captaincy to the horror of many Arsenal fans. This season has so far prove that he is a no nonsense captain and a million miles away from Saint Thierry Henry. We are 25 games in and we have only conceded 17 and a lot of that has to be put down to the improvement in Willy G’s form.
Toure has upped his game this year and has proved that he can work with Gallas in the centre, despite people questioning this at the start of the season. They are both under 6 ft tall but have dealt with the aerial threat at set pieces a lot better this season. Kolo has had one bad game (Boro’) this year, the rest he has played well in as far as I am concerned. We thought we would miss him greatly when he left for the ACN, but so far big Phil has lessened the blow with some sterling performances. Kolo will be back soon and he will be hoping secure his position in another great back four.
Clichy spent the first few years of his Arsenal career injured. At one point he thought his career was over as he broke his metatarsal twice. Cashley left us to join the scum across town and it was up to him to takeover the mantel as king of the left backs. This season has seen Clichy step up into the realms of ‘World Class’. He has everything Ashley Cole had and more. He anticipates passes and uses his blistering pace to nip in front of the player to nick the ball. He has added crossing to his C.V, setting up a number of goals over the last few months. The only thing lacking in his game is a few goals, but I am pretty sure a ‘Nigel Winterburn’ classic will fly in within the next couple of months!
We have 13 games left, and if we concede more than 10 you would have to think the league may be out of the question? So if we concede 9 or less, and possibly break Arsene’s ‘league winning goals conceded total’ (mouthful!), would you make this current group your greatest back four of the last 11 years?
Conclusion Geoff
My favourite memory of a back for was the commentator at Anfield, probably the most famous game in history, let Brian Moore take it up.
Something like this…
‘Lukic throws out to Dixon, Dixon to Smith, Smith to Thomas, it’s up for grabs now…bang, …goodnight Vienna’
The best back four of Wenger’s reign was the class of 1998, Dixon, Keown, Adams and Winterburn because they were hard and unmoving, but this current one we have I like as well, only they have more pace and play great one touch.
Geoff’s dream Wenger Back 4
Sagna - Adams - Keown - Clichy
Winterburn would be in my back line but Clichy will get better, Winterburn had goals in him, Clichy doesn’t.
Conclusion Pedro
I am going to place my faith in the current back four. If they win the league this year, I think they could possibly be classed as the greatest Arsenal back four of Wenger’s reign. Willy G is an inspirational leader who comes up with goals and leads by example. Clichy is better than Cole already and has been a winner all season, Sagna is just superb, as is Kolo. The level of the premier league is much higher than it used to be, so to win the league this year amongst so many big spending clubs could be marked down as one of Wengers greatest achievements. Another thing about the current crop of defenders is bar Gallas, they are very young! If Wenger can keep this group together, they could have many successful years ahead. Its all down to trophies though, so lets hope I can come back to this article at the end of the season and be able to put those players in the defenders hall of fame!
Pedro’s dream Wenger Back 4
Clichy - Adams - Gallas - Sagna
Can the back current back four become great?
Can you pick a better Wenger dream back 4?
Let your thoughts be known in the comments section!
Pedro
Geoff
February 6, 2008 at 9:21 am
Dixon, Adams, Bould, Nutty complimented eachother more than any back 4 in the world (ever). We may have better footballers now, but nothing will ever top that bunch of loons.
February 6, 2008 at 9:21 am
Woww that must be the longest post in legroves history .Its great that you keep on coming up with good new stuff .As I dont have any past experience I cant contribue but I promise I will follow all the postings today and learn from the experience
well done guys
February 6, 2008 at 9:34 am
whooooaaaa why the Fuck hasnt anyone mentioned the maestro???pascal!
February 6, 2008 at 9:41 am
Morning guys,
I must admit the post today is top notch, and you’ve gone some way to reminding me why I continue to partake in the banter on your blog. Tops!
Anyway, enough of that crap!!
My abiding memory of the Arsenal back four will always be the sight of Steve Bould laying a through ball to Tony Adams! A brilliant left footed finish capped a 4-0 win over Everton in May 1998 to win the Premiership. That for me in itself plus many games in which TA was visibly in agony from his back problem but still managed to marshall the back four for 90 minutes, makes him for me at least the best defender we’ve ever had. End of!
Right back has to be Lee Dixon, with Lauren, Sagna close runners. Until Sagna actually wins something you can’t compare him to Dixon who won 4 titles?
Leftback, although it pains to me to say it has to be Ashley Cole. Considering he displaced Silvinho, became first choice England LB and was part opf the invincibles, i have to give credit where it’s due. Considering what’s happened in the last 2 years since, I think he did us a favour leaving because we’re now better off with Gael (force) Clichy! We have had some gems in this position over the last 20 years! Sansom, Winterburn, Silvinho, Cole, Clichy, Traore. (let’s ignore Vivas for a sec!!)
The last CB position is a bit more difficult. Bouldie and Keown were legends, Sol did a close to flawless job during the time he was with us, and WG is turning out to be an inspirational captain.
My choice will however have to be Kolo Toure. I will always remember the fact that we bought this guy as a midfielder, he was man of the match in one of his first games for us against the chavs, and during his interview he said ‘if manager ask Kolo to play in defence, Kolo will play there, if manager ask Kolo to play in midfield, attack even goal, Kolo will play there!!’ and that epitomises this guy! Add that to the fact that he hardly ever has a bad game, and was again part of the invincibles and his importance to the current squad is magnified.
Dixon -Adams,Toure-Cole
February 6, 2008 at 9:46 am
Nice post. I am more inclined to agree with Geoff’s choice of back four.
1) Because they stayed together for the best part of 15 years.
2) Won trophies by the bucket load
3) Conceded the least goals out of any defence ever
You argument about the technical ability of players is flawed I think. Adams and co dealt with the best players from ten years ago and I have no doubt they would deal with the current crop of upstarts in the same way,
Willy G is a good captain, if he wins the league, maybe a great captain. But no where near as great as captain marvel! Remember that goal against Everton?
My greatest defence?
98 Back four because they were telepathic.
England manager missed a trick not playing those guys together.
Last time I checked, ManU have conceded only 13. Not bad this late in the season.
February 6, 2008 at 9:46 am
I remember that interview Odub. Fucking hilarious.
Makes me laugh whenever I hear the bloke speak.
He’ll turn out to be a Gooner legend, who’d have believed it? You know who convinced Arsene to give him a chance at CB? Mad Marting Monkey Head.
February 6, 2008 at 9:47 am
To compare a back line that’s been together less than a season with THE back line is laughable. That defence was possibly the best unit that English football has seen.
Let’s put it like this. if it’s the last minute of a cup final and we’re battling to hold onto a lead who would you choose?
February 6, 2008 at 9:53 am
I agree with Steve in that the old back four were argueably the best defensive unit ever, their understanding was bordering on telepathy, so to split them up in a “best ever” back four would be sacrilidge, I think they became an extension of Graham’s personality in that yes they are technically inferior to Arsene’s back four who equally mirror Wenger’s personality. I also agree with Le Grove in that should we conceed 9 or less and bring the title home, these boys would do the unthinkable and become our best back four.
February 6, 2008 at 10:06 am
Anyone heard anythink about Flamini’s injury? All I know is he limped off after 15 minutes. I fucking hate internationals.
February 6, 2008 at 10:07 am
*anything even
February 6, 2008 at 10:10 am
Setanta’s website has got both him and Diaby injured playing against Congo last night!!! this Raymond Dumbass guy really is a tool!! He calls up all our French players, and everytime we end up with 1 injured! and he also used to play Henry for 90 minutes during friendlies just to piss Wenger off!! Prat!
February 6, 2008 at 10:26 am
Odub, Diaby didn’t play because an ankle injury was “discovered” after training. What the fuck do they do to our boys over there? Did Henry play 90 minutes last night out of interest? Now he isn’t at Arsenal anymore he was probably rested.
February 6, 2008 at 10:34 am
My choice
Sagna Toure Adams Clichy
we have 3 of the best back four we have ever had and Gallas is not that far behind Adams so I would say that this is the best back four we have had. Keown and Adams were mustard at set pieces. the current centre backs are slightly weak on set pieces both defending and attacking.
February 6, 2008 at 10:39 am
Steve the site said something about it being the reserve team, because I’m sure they’ve got a game against Spain tonight! So Flamster has got injured playing for the fucking French reserve team!!! Great. Henry should play tonight.
February 6, 2008 at 10:49 am
Sagna,Adams, Kolo and Clichy any day will be solid. Adams was more like gallas only more solid and committed the rest of the guys just do the talking on the field of play.
II LLLLLLLLLLoooooooVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEE AAARRRRSSSSEEEEENNNNAAALLLLL
February 6, 2008 at 11:15 am
Well more good news!
“Kakà had treated this knee pain with physiotherapy and anti-inflammatories,” said Kotscho.
“It is not appropriate to intervene surgically, but he probably will not be fielded against Arsenal.”
Bravo… no Pato… No Gattuso and now no Kaka!
Happy days.
February 6, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I suppose a lot of you saw Theo play last night. I thought he did very well. I think a game like that will do his confidence a lot of good and will help his development. a very confident finish for his goal as well so its clear he has that in his locker which is a skill that is hard to teach. still Ireland gave him a lot of space for his goal and that is something he wont find in the PL. its hard to say where he will be in 2 years time but he definitely needs to be given that time and patience.
February 6, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I think Theo did ok last night. He was up front on his own, and was isolated a lot, he didnt get the ball to feet a lot, and he seemed to hurry his touch a few times. Apart from that maybe 7/10 performance, capped with a great goal reminiscent of his first ever Arsenal goal V the chavs in the Carling Cup final last season.
February 6, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Its amazing how many players look amazing for the under 21’s, then when they step up they look average. Look at Jeffers and Defoe.
I think Theo is a little different, he has pace skill and he is a more Wenger type player than Jeffers was.
If he made decisions quicker and became a little more selfish, he might start to score a few goals! We don’t need to worry about how fast he develops at the moment, imagine the headache Wenger would have if he had a goal scroing Theo as well as a Eduardo, Ade, Bendtner and a fit RVP… The competition is going to be fierce when RVP returns.
Its amazing that Ade has taken over the mantle of the number on striker. Anyone heard how long Almunia is out for? There is still no news on the Flamster either?
February 6, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Im going for a back 3 of Tavlaridis, Stepanovs, Cygan….
February 6, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Almunia should only be out for a week last I heard.
February 6, 2008 at 2:52 pm
but note how many goals he scores from the left and opening up his body (like Henry does) and curls one to the far post. and yet wenger persists with using him on the right hand side where he cannot score goals like that. when played down the middle he goes to the left more often than not - just like Henry used to for us. I think he finds it more natural on the left, and I really would like to see him used on the left for Arsenal where he might become a genuine goal threat.
I think henry was used as a right winger for quite a while before he was allowed to play as a striker so Theo is following a very similar path.
February 6, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Gazzap - i agree the left is the go, 1 of his goals in the CL game earlier in the season was coming down the left side of the field, and the goal was awesome. Give him a go on the left!
February 6, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I thought the U21’s for fuckin attrocious……… it was like watching ladies football. Walcott wasn’t great, but was better than the rest of them.
As for Muamba…….. jesus christ……. did we really get £2,000,000 for him……. fuckin astounding business !!!!
February 6, 2008 at 4:59 pm
The pitch didnt help, but I think Arsenal ladies play better football!!!
The Irish were crap and we were just slightly better than that, all but one of the starting 11 were Prem players and it didnt show at all! Psycho’s tactics were a bit odd, Theo by himself when Jerome was on the bench didnt work, and the first goal was a lucky one, after which the Irish then bombed forward and left gaps behind for us to explore. 3-0 flattered them, but at least Theo got a good goal.
The boy Wheater from ‘boro looks the business though, and might be one to keep an eye on.
February 6, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Despite probably the best post on this site EVER the response aint been great has it?! I’ve only just noticed how low no of comments have been! Been busy myself, and now off home, so guys give us another biggie to ponder tomorrow,.
Hopefully a good result at wembley tonight for the Italian i mean England team!!
Nite all!
February 6, 2008 at 5:07 pm
If Muamba had thought himself any good, he’d have stayed and tried to displace one of the others.
If you are a good player, you will be a good player wherever you end up playing. Look at Tevez at West Ham, he played for a shite club, but still done the business.
We never let players go who come back to haunt us. Sidwell went to Chelsea and has shown himself up and none of the other youngsters have done any good. I suppose you could say Bentley has done quite well? But again, a player who chose to leave… none of them get pushed unless they don’t have their contracts renewed.
I didn’t watch the game, but somone told me Muamba was man of the Match?
February 6, 2008 at 5:09 pm
James Milner and Aaron Lennon played better than Muamba!!
February 6, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Cheers Odub, people don’t blog on international week! All the sites are dead today…
February 6, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Pedro what is your view about theo and how fast he is gonna develop -are you are happy for him to develop slowely -I am confused .I phoned confused .com but they couldnt help .
This is what you said about theo a couple of weeks ago
“Theo out on loan is what is needed I tell you what else he needs a big scar or some war paint he still looks 15 .Toughen him up I say send him to west Ham and sign him up to Repton Boxing gym
Is that still your view ?
AS geoffs not on today he must be playing golf today eh ???
February 6, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Pedro, who told you Muamba was man of the match???……… Geoff !!!!!!
He was crap. They all were. Muamba is slow, his control is poor and only passes the way he faces !!!!
Lenon was shit. Fast, but no end product !
Milner was awful as well until his crap shot was deflected in and then he had a good long pot shot !
February 6, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I am struggling to come to terms with Theo!
I still hold the same view about the Scar, he needs to toughen up, he gets knocked all over the place. If you are a professional athlete and you work 3 hours a day at the max, would it be so hard to go down the gym and bulk up a bit?
I think the ingredient he lacks is greed… I think he is a bit like Ade was last year… afraid to upset anyone. So he picks the ball up, runs with it, thinks about shooting, thinks about passing… then it is to late to do either!
I think it would be best for him to go out on loan for a half a year, it didn’t do Nikki B any harm did it?
What do you think?
I don’t know where Geoff is? I think he is having I.T issues?
February 6, 2008 at 5:49 pm
I think its a mental toughness thats needed not a physical one -It requires the belief system to be A1 and more self centred (selfish) would be good .Maybe he is intimidated by his Arsenal contemporaries but less so with the under 21s .Maybe loan out to a lesser team and more 1st team games would get his head right -as you say it is difficult cos clearly the guy has real potential
I´m getting worried about geoff especially after his reference yesterday which shows he has a preference for ladyboys -perhaps he is pounding the streets looking for one
February 6, 2008 at 5:52 pm
on the flip side, the Socceross beat Qatar 3-0, some good goals scored…maybe you English dudes can take a leaf? hahahah….
February 6, 2008 at 5:55 pm
oh and by the way if theo needs a physical trainer ive just been sitting in the spas sauna with the body guard for Bruce willis If If bud stood on my shoulders and geoffs on buds we still wouldnt be at the same level -Sorry Bud geoff does like being on top like all ladyboy fanciers
February 6, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Geoff with Lady boys… Mike with oversized man mountains… what is this blog coming to?
February 6, 2008 at 7:09 pm
The kid is only 18 so maybe we should lay off him.also what about david o leary in the 89 team.he was tony adams mentor
February 6, 2008 at 11:48 pm
If you can take the ‘89 back line and through in Pascal then your on to something!
February 7, 2008 at 12:03 am
[...] Are the current back four the greatest of Wenger’s reign? International week is dragging worse than Lily Savage (does that work?), so I thought I’d spark some debate on an […] [...]
February 7, 2008 at 3:45 pm
McGoldrick - Ceasar - Stepanovs - Lydersson
Pure Class
February 7, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Hoyte, song, senderos, cygan